This Laptop Can Last FOREVER
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2023
- My review of this thing
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CORRECTION: You can swap the Expansion Bay Modules (like the discrete GPU) without removing the Mid Plate, so it's actually relatively quick. For example, The Verge did it in around 2 minutes here: ruclips.net/video/-IYIuJ_CLPM/видео.html
I mentioned @2:10 that this was an engineering sample. For clarity, it's a DVT2 pre-production engineering sample, so there are parts of the mechanical fit and finish that are not final (in the process of being tuned before final release). This specific unit wasn't a review sample, but just a random internal development unit.
As for availability, the Framework Laptop 16 is still in the pre-order phase. If you want to check it out, visit frame.work/laptop-16
I'll never get used to the haircut 😂
@Dave2D please review the Asus Zenbook 14 Flip OLED 2023
Note that this is a pre-release prototype, which means a bunch of the overall mechanical fit and finish is incomplete.
There suld be 2 NVME slots. Stacked
@ianthomas1955 They did say they ran out of room. I'd personally be fine with a single slot with double sided SSD support.
I hope this company really succeeds long term
They probably be bought out by Dell, and that is how they survive. Honestly, the product is amazing but the actual business plan is lunacy.
It won't survive without drastic changes to it imo...
_tldr bit :_
I hope it does, it's a great thing to own if you are a collector. Just I see the specs versus the actual cost of ownership - then I think supply is limited, the market just isn't large enough without investment and changes at the top strategically.
They will sell though because the products are good, though they won't profit sufficiently to continue past 2-3 years. I highly recommend them as an IPO share in future though!
same... but it my mind i only see them being bought in the future. Hope it will not. If that had to happen, i wish it was a good company
@@04_ruizatanedy24 Lol there's no such thing, Framework itself is the closest we'll ever get to a good company. The moment they get bought their products will start getting progressively worse and worse.
They'll either be bought out or everyone else will just copy them, and they'll be left behind.
Yeah…they will most likely be bought out strictly for sourcing their parts. Sure, the parts are modular but those parts are also proprietary. Unless they have an endless supply for each and every skew, I can see them looking for partnerships.
The industrial designer in me cannot help but respect the applied intelligence behind this thing.
As a not-industrial-designer, I am very impressed with how they made the laptop, especially the keyboard and all, so easy to tinker with. I can only imagine how you feel.
I am REALLY rooting for them.
Hopefully they're just not only getting respect for the customers
But also getting bought
@@fajarkurniawan9434 I worry that if they get bought, then this dream would die a death by million cuts. other companies dont really want a modular concept to succeed as that would reduce what they can sell. the first to go would be the time for which parts are available. the new company would also make the new models slightly different so that parts can be interchanged. hence you modular laptop only gets replacement parts. there are too many things that a new owner can screw up. Its better they remain independent.
@@fajarkurniawan9434As someone who subscribed to their newsletter, I can tell you that more people are buying than they expected. Turns out that people were absolutely ravenous for a 16 inch AMD notebook from them.
the real ai
We need this company to succeed.
True
I put out a video a few weeks ago on why I think it will, they really did their homework as a company@@tiract
only idiots think this, and idiot wannabe startup companies try this, they all evaporate into nothing after burning shitloads of money, because they have no clue, whatsoever, about anything, at all, just like the ordinary customer.
and the company needs to lower the price.
@@AdarshMeher-xe9dl you can only do that at scale and by using predatory business practices like virtually every other company, if you care about modularity and repairability/environment, this is the price it comes with (and consider the fact that you'll actually be able to upgrade the laptop and save yourself money in the long term, instead of having to buy a whole new computer)
The amount of planning required to make something like this and keep it relevant 5 years down the line is genius! I really do hope the company succeeds
its so refreshing to see a company making big promises ACTUALLY deliver on them, and more. Framework has my respect for sure
Juicero actually delivered on their big promise too…
It's not worth the money, just get an Asus G14.
@@jondonnelly4831the asus is not worth the e-waste.
@@IdaReggaeMonframework has a 3 year track record of nothing but success, bitch. On top of that, they sold out of preorders for the 16" version in like 12 minutes. The demand exceeded their expectations.
@@jondonnelly4831So you'd rather get something from a company not as pro consumer just to save a few bucks!? What is wrong with you!?
As someone that worked in r&d for ten years+, pogo pins life span is something to keep an eye at. Their springs tend to fail after a while and you start getting bad contact. Hopefully these are also replaceable if needed.
That was my concern too - just as a hunch though.
10:17, maybe they sell replacements of this panel.
@@jujuu1339 they will. And putting those contact pins on a replaceable midplate is GENIUS.
Everything is replaceable if you're good enough at soldering.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 lel
My laptop from around 12 years ago was somewhat modular: RAM, CPU, GPU, HDD, wireless were all removable as well as the battery. It was a tremendous shame watching laptops get more and more "integrated", especially in the ultrabook class. Nice to see Framework not only reversing this but taking it a few steps further!
This thing is literally the coolest laptop I’ve seen for a long time. Amazing build quality for something so take-apart-able. Fantastic job Framework!
Other laptop manufacturers can certainly learn a thing or two from this.
Dell are quite repairable.
A new standard for the industry.
profits over anything boys, its just business
they could, but most of them are more interested in selling you a new device every couple years
@@oliviamayumi imagine you're a company, you need money to stay alive and grow to push more money in R&D. I'm pretty sure modular is a great thing but business wise, heck no.
Fans are usually the first thing to go on a laptop, and on some (thinkpad T30s) they are buried in the deepest section of the laptop. To be able to install the fan through a "slot" on the back of the laptop or to be able to just pull out the fan & clean it with a hairdryer is UNREAL!! Nice work!!
I can't believe that they actually delivered on all of their promises. My next laptop is going to be a framework
I see spacers and I am sold. Next laptop!
I want the 16 inch!
yeah mine too, once my LG Gram 17 dies, the FW16 would be my next
You've got to admire the engineering around the modularity.
No i do not. The basic, non gimmickal modularity is the port modules, and they have morronic dimensions. Cannot fit double ports, cannot have double modules that could easily fit them.
@@constantinosschinas4503 the rest of the modularity is gimmicky? What laptop manufacturers will allow you to buy a laptop without any windows, ram, storage, etc so you can buy the parts yourself for half the cost?
@@meatisomalley The project needed better modular architecture/design choices in the early phases. Now, too much modularity, half baked, with flimpsy result and... expensive.
@@constantinosschinas4503 Maybe. Most consumers seem very happy with the product, at least as far as the target audience who purchased the laptop goes. I think it's a cool concept and if the cost of manufacturing can decrease a little bit over the years it's an easy purchase for me.
@@constantinosschinas4503so aside from the extreme vagueness, the notion that it is flimsy and expensive is plain wrong. I have personally been using a framework 16 for a couple of weeks now, and it has a better build then almost every laptop that people claim it competes against. And expensive? Relative to what? Cheap gaming laptops made out of plastic?
Can you at least be more specific if you want to cope and mald all day in a RUclips comment section.
I do think over time, if they're successful, the build of the overall shell can easily become more rigid and solid feeling. This approach, they're pioneering in this space. They want to get it marketable somewhat on a price to upgradeability tradeoff. I think if they get more and more people to go for it, they'll have more leeway on machining to really improve the experience further.
I think this may not happen because framework says they wanna stick to their 70% recycled aluminum composite or whatever their using for the laptop shell.
they are still a very young company and there is much room to grow and improve. I really hope they succeed. Sadly I bought a overpriced macbook pro m1 16 inch but my next laptop in 5-7 years will probably be a framework.
I freaking love Framework. I really want them to succeed because there is nothing else quite like what they are doing. Props to the designers and the team because engineering this stuff could not have been easy, plus making it not cost more than people would be willing to pay!
We have to help this succeed.
I'm so tired getting screwed by tech companies
Dang, just the way that keyboard layout looks says that this labtop is made with love. A full backspace key and shift keys! A dedicated FN button! Even a number pad!!! Or ig macro pad, im guessing u can customize. Wow, the magnetic everything is so cool!!! U can rly customize this computer! So so so cool!!!
There's another module for numpad .... Plus rgb panels and dot matrix panel, etc
Yeah, idk if it's mechanical though 😕
@@gearsgamer7115Not too many laptops have that. There are some laptops that have really good keyboards that aren't mechanical, my 2022 legion 7 being one of them. It would be really nice if that becomes an option though.
@@reaprg5849 well I hate hurting my wrist by constantly bottoming out, and hate the mushiness. Noone who is sane would like a mushy, scratchy, hammer feeling keyboard
@@gearsgamer7115 My keyboard doesn't feel that way. You've probably just used too many crappy ones.
hopefully framework comes to other countries soon. i want this to be my next laptop. just the convenience of being able to change the placement of stuff or swap ports anytime is game changing. and being able to upgrade it down the line is also nice.
dave didnt mention everything about the laptop but he did point out some new things which other reviewers haven't.
I think those bottom spacers (next to the trackpad) single handedly make the laptop look much cheaper than it is, it would be nice to see some alternatives there...
Yeah, I'd love to see a black version of the trackpad and spacers, I feel like the silver really highlights the existence of those seams.
@@clickykbd there are black spacers but no black trackpad
love the warm lighting in the studio
The fans being easily swappable is really cool. Performance oriented laptops put a lot of strain on the fans and they're pretty much guaranteed to fail after a while. I recently had to replace fans on my laptop and it was a major pain the ass, taking off the ENTIRE heat sink just to get the fans off.
Yeah just cleaning the fans alone would be way way easier.
Hehe fans… cool…
Seriously. Years ago I helped a fellow college student fix her laptop's overheating issue (it ended up being a wad of horse hair in the fan, go figure - she was in the Ranch Management program), and I basically had to break that thing down into its component pieces to get to the fan. The motherboard had to come out, the screen had to come off, and by the end it wasn't laptop-shaped anymore, just a pile of parts.
@@nimbusws2566cue the laugh track
They (or someone) could release a new fan module when Lenovo's patent on the owl-wing fan expires.
PS. If anyone can find that patent, post the patent number here (not the URL as outgoing hyperlinks don't seem to work on many channels) please. I'd like to 3D print them for older, pre-owlwing ThinkPads.
Great video. The engineering that went into the Framework laptops is top shelf. There will have to be some compromises between rigidity and customization & upgradability. Still patiently awaiting for mine to arrive in Q1 '24.
Bro i LOVE that format see you and the pc at the same time it is awesome keep doing that.
The other thing you forgot to mention with buying 2 laptops vs upgrading a component is the amount of waste. Upgrading the laptop's GPU component will always be less wasteful than buying another laptop. This and user reparability are the main reasons I want this laptop to succeed.
I beg to differ, when you buy a new laptop, your old one is either going to another family member or friend or sold to another person or shop, buying a new module on the other hand, you would probably throw away the previous module due to its redundancy.
@@kevindavid732yes sell broken parts to refurbish or scrap and any old parts can be sold yes but repairable is always better than replacing everything when a screen is cracked or broken or motherboard is broken you still get to keep a lot of unbroken stuff just feels good...
@@kevindavid732actually, framework specifically has the marketplace for allowing you to sell the module. Not to mention for the mainboards you can repurpose an old mainboard into a desktop with the cooler master case and give it to a family member. There is nothing that a normal laptop does that a framework can't.
@@heroninja1125 don't know about you but I'd rather stick to my trusty g14
@@kevindavid732 which is actually inline with the philosophy behind these kinds of products... Only replace stuff when you need to. The G14 should serve you for a few years yet.
They should make a tough version that is thicker to have that rigidity but uses same replaceable components. That would be a great alternative for those who don't really need it that thin.
that was a really interesting point he made about the rigidity. people's perception plays a lot into how they value things. Your suggestion would be a really great idea at least in terms of a poster boy product that gives you everything (while being a bit thicker to improve the rigidity issue)
Nobody needs a laptop to be thin. People just want that for some asinine reason
@@BahhBahhBrownSheepThin and lights are great what are you talking about? For my workloads having a light and thin laptop for field work is much better than a 5+ pound machine that does the same thing.
I understand why thicker laptops are desired and the benefits they have but to say that nobody needs a thin laptop is just crazy talk
@@jeevejavari8461 so you’re going to tell me that losing 2-4 millimeters on a laptop is beneficial to you? How? If it’s weight and half a pound affects you, I’d say you’re the problem because that should not be noticeable to you, nor should you be holding your laptop when using it anyway. If it’s because it’s taking space in your bag, how? It’s literally only 2-4 millimeters and that makes almost no real world difference but in terms of internal design it’s monumental. The amount of quality and features people will happily throw away to shave a couple millimeters off a frame is ridiculous. Having an actual structural frame, slots opposed to soldered components, and batteries that don’t suck ass are wAAAY more important than this thin BS.
Just look at Apple, they finally got this through their thick skulls recently and the new Pro models are a bit thicker, which gave us bigger batteries, better coolers, a keyboard that doesn’t feel like you’re tapping on a table, and real ports again like an SD reader and HDMI. I’ve not seen one person complain about them being heavy or big. If other companies stopped chasing this old trend we’d all be better for it. ALL of us.
@@jeevejavari8461Thin is not the same as lightweight.
And my love for Dave2D lasts even longer
And my love for your love for Dave2D lasts even longer
HE HAS WIFE AND KIDS.
And My Love for Dave2D lasts even longer
Cringe 😬
@@n3gi_so we can't love a creator if they have a wife and kids??
I watched one of your videos in the past about the viability of this 16 inch and it kinda made a whole lots of sense. Considering that upgrading the laptop (at the given prices of the components) would eventually be the same or equal to a whole new machine, the only consolation would be that you’re avoiding ewaste (and its fully modular and customizable to your needs) if you keep buying a whole new laptop every couple of years.
I really want Framework to succeed and eventually lower the price down of upgrade components but until that time its a hard proposition despite the upgradability and modularity.
I got my current laptop the acer predator helios 300 from Dave's recommendation. It's been great for the last few years. I'm seriously considering going for the framework as my new laptop. I'll definitely wait a bit to see how they support these projects. I just hope framework as a company really goes far
I would love to have a thicker version of these laptops for better cooling tbh. Great laptops though!
Bro.....That laptop is already thicc with 2 c's
@@Techfanatic73How is 18 mm thicc with two Cs? That's honestly really thin for something with this level if upgradability and power!
I too would love a normal laptop fitted with an OP cooling system. Light is nice, but quiet running under load is better.
something like Alienware 18...I sold that beast 3 years ago
The community also builds modules, someone will sooner or later make a discrete cooling module
Amaze to see how far we have come and can't wait to see more innovation like this ahead ❤ Keep innovating y'all
A few years ago I had a lenovo Y500 with swappable modules. Obviously not the same level of customizability and upgradeability, but allowed you to get different modules suitable to your use case
Great review, especially on the rigidity aspect. I have an old Dell Latitude with a magnesium alloy body and it also feels plastic and "cheap", despite how solid it actually is. It really impacts the way you perceive a product.
Truly a fantastic concept and more importantly, a fantastic implementation.
I switched my primary system to Mac but I am in the market for a "primary" gaming system and a Framework laptop really appeals to me because of the modularity. Maybe when I have laptop money again, I'll give Framework a shot. I looked into the other gaming laptops but they are incredibly expensive and like you said, you are stuck with whatever components are in the system.
This laptop is just awesome!! And the idea behind the modularity is super cool.
Great coverage Dave
It would be really satisfying to me to own a framework laptop. I just love the whole idea about repairability and upgradability. One reason why I was a fan of ThinkPads in the first place.
Coming from an older MSI GS65 Stealth, like the first model, I think I can live with the flex and lack of rigidity because the MSI unfortunately had that issue as well. Over time it's not a big issue. What IS an issue is the components slowly failing one by one on this thing that constitute the need to replace it (in the computer's defense it is about 5+ years old now) whereas with a Framework I could fairly easily replace the failing modules.
Also just the idea of once you upgrade something like the logic board on this thing you can throw the old one into a case and make it like a media PC or something and that's pretty wild to me.
This is such a great idea with equally great execution. Very well done to Framework team. Such a utilitarian and future proof approach. Thank you Dave for presenting it so well to us.
I do hope it will catch on, and prices goes down as it gains traction to mass produce. One future obstacle maybe that many people still desperately want to stand out and show off, hopefully Framework will also provide a system to accommodate this needs to "be different and broadcast it", either with exchangeable outer shell with outlandish design, or a premium material of some sort, or hell just a premium sticker might be enough, just to satisfy those needs.
I knew Dave would come around to this device! Glad to see a company be so pro consumer! We need more companies to be more repairable!
My preorder is waiting in batch 1!
As a tech enthusiast I'd love to purchase a laptop like that. It's not a finished, polished by time and several generations product as for right now, but me spending money on it hopefully will promote modular tech.
Good for nature, great for people, love the idea of it.
But I have concerns as for accessibility of parts (that's obviously crucial) and this product being represent worldwide (not all of us tech fans live in North America).
ya well if you expect me to subscribe to your channel after watching this video, you are on the right track.
The thing i like about this video, is you get right to the point without a lot of extra nonsense. I wish more tech videos would be like this. and now..im interested more than ever in the framework
The more and more I see about Framework, the more the desire to get one grows. I JUST bought a new laptop though about a month ago so definitely won't happen anytime soon, but I could see my next laptop being a Framework.
Also regarding the AMD GPU they have, if it's similar to a 4060 then that sounds fantastic to me! Not the highest end thing ever but I'm not all that picky on visuals or balls-to-the-wall speed so that seems like a great unit to me. Must be hard to get really beefy cards that run really hot into that standardized frame
edit now that I got to the end of the vid:
Regarding your last point about the perception of the quality, I think it's a great point but it may not be that big of an issue? I think the market for this type of laptop, at this time, is mostly an enthusiast market - nerds like you and I that can get sweaty over smaller details of what makes a laptop what it is. And then we will be the ones to spread it to the wider market (in theory) and we know enough to explain *why* the laptop may *feel* cheaper. Ultimately, I think there will be tradeoffs to modularity, and everyone has become used to a world of tightly integrated devices that don't share some of those tradeoffs. At the same time, I imagine with a few more years and a few more iterations, those tradeoffs will diminish and become less noticeable
A nightmare for Apple. They put all their efforts into the product to NOT get fixed.
lol. I will pick sturdy built MacBook over this crap
@@harshpatel105MacBook, lol
Nah, People who buy apple buy it for different reason than the market for these. We’ve been able to service our own desktops for years but 90% of people don’t.
Lol copied comment. Idk but there are two comments below this with the exact characters of it.
@@jeremyroe Yeah, but the 90% should have an option to get it repaired from the repair shop. It doesn't have to be modular. A right to repair is a must when you own a thing and spend a lot of money on it.
Man I can't wait to see what the community mods would be made for this thing! I'd love to pre purchase this but framework being a new company with releasing a new product I'm gonna wait a few months before buying myself
Such attempt itself is worthy of praise.
Everyone talked about for many years... but very few did.
That little red tab when you pull the locking tab out is such a nice touch
I wouldn't mind a thicker and more rigid chassis in it. Because they are trying to make a laptop as upgradeable as a desktop. Question is:
Can I get a thicker and tougher spare frame/chassis in the future?
Will there be aftermarket spare parts?
answer to q1: possibly, answer to q2: yes.
lol a pørn bot copied your comment but didn't add the question
lol a pørn bot copied your comment but didn't add the question
You don't need a thicker frame. The back module (which contains the cooling system) can be as thick as needed. It doesn't necessarily have to have the same thickness as the laptop frame, because it can protrude both down and back. But, it is up to Framework to make different back modules.
My dream would be to have a modular laptop of smaller handheld size like a GPD Win but with swappable motherboards. Or swap keyboards for a game pad that takes up more vertical room and the replaceable I/O cards in the back.
At about 11:31 where the screen is propped up perpendicular to the camera, it's really clear that it's not straight. Maybe he just managed to close one hinge slightly more than the other, but it could be that the thin aluminum has bent slightly. Hopefully that doesn't turn into a large problem with these laptops.
I really do like the modular aspect of this. It's nice to be able to relatively easily replace or upgrade components. I hope that this becomes the standard with laptops. It's better for the environment as it minimizes e-waste and saves you money in the long run.
Gosh this is so freaking cool. What a awesome concept executed so well
Seeing countless well-wishes for Framework's success here and well .. everywhere. That alone is a strong indication it will be. Last years 16 pre-order launch crashed the servers. Glowing reviews, thanks, and kudos are raining down.
We've been pining for something like this for ages. Someone finally did it and it has a name. It's superbly engineered and they're well-partnered and financed. Their success, longeveity, and possible domination feels all but assured. WE will make it so. The disruption is real, and everyone will be playing catch up.
Dave makes a good point about the _apparent_ flimsiness to the casual user. I don't know actual sales volume, but those of us who know better are snapping them up like like hungry wolves. I believe that is establishing a reputation which the masses will get wind of, alleviating any concerns about "flimsy" feel.
Every single big laptop company is able to do that kind of stuff.
But they just don't feel like doing it.
Thank you Framework for showing us what can be achieved when you actually try.
Lets see if they succeed. *After that, you can make your statement.*
Thanks, friend!
@@FrameworkComputerhope you can expand your market and not just a few select countries.
Perhaps they don’t feel like doing it because they recognize it as a bad idea.
As for a business model, it is a bad idea. OEMs need to sell laptops to survive and if everyone just buys modular laptops for life, they would go bust. Having a niche business like this to satisfy the techie crowd that believe in modularity is enough. I hope Framework survives but I feel they will run out of customers and end up unprofitable.
That's so amazing.... Not just the modularity but the quality in each component. I would indeed pay a bit more for this kind of laptop
I legit had my jaw dropped open while you were moving the trackpad amd keyboard around. Thats amazing
I hope that these will eventually be ready to "order and invoice" in a way that I can take advantage of the "tax free holiday" in some states. In my state that saves 10% which is significant and takes some of the sting of the higher price. I'd probably go with the higher end eventually and with a newer external GPU...will see what happens in 2024!
the fact that this laptop is suitable for both gaming and office work with just a single gpu swap is insane. My gaming laptop lasts around 6.5h before it dies in the office, but now it's a whole new level
well, if you can plug it in for office work, you don't need to swap at all! For me, it is more like the prospect of upgrade later down the line that thrills me.
first time seeing Dave2D using a jump cut unscrewing really takes time though , great video as always would be definitely interested in getting one of these some day when the budget allows it 😂
I have mine preordered! I can't wait to get it. I got the DIY version and am going to have a blast assembling it.
I never thought I'd see the day I could convert a laptop to having a left-hand-side numpad in under a minute. I can enjoy all my deranged spreadsheet fantasies now.
You sicko! :p
This laptop design is amazing; we need standardize the size and the interface of modular laptop that free sharing across multiple manufacturers just like atx, matx, itx. then we can build our own laptop from buying different manufacturer’s components.
Great Review. Love the new hair by the way!
My +- 7 year old HP Pavillion is about to go to laptop heaven and for several months now I have the Framework 16 on my short list. First it even wasn't available in my country but that changed recently. All the things you brought up (price, quality, future proof, ..) have been things I'm thinking about. Still it's been my number one choice for a while now, I am afraid of ordering one (price you know) and being "disappointed". Your review here has a positive turn out in favor of the Framework 16. Still have a few questions or things that aren't completely clear but I manage to figure those out. I watch your YT posts every time, and they are not always in my field of interest (mostly they are) but I always learn something new. Furthermore they are always very informative, in simple language explained (and so also very understandable for non-English viewers) and you are very straight to the point in saying what is good or bad. Your honesty is appreciated. Thank you very much.
Not having physical touchpad buttons is a deal-breaker for me. Which is too bad, since I love the idea behind the company and this product. Hopefully that will be an option at some point in the future. I'd also love to have a non-chiclet keyboard option, but that seems unlikely to fit in that case form factor.
It's very possible that future purchaseable options could include a touchpad with buttons. I would bet someone in the community forum has already thought of this.
It’s actually quite strange that there has been standards for desktops (motherboard, cpu sockets, pci slots) whereas the laptops never went in that direction. I wonder why that is so, is it the technology is / need to be more custom made, cost efficiency or just not enough suppliers to make it modular. Wish them good luck
If every OEM went modular and people stopped upgrading their laptops, that would be the end of PC OEMs. It is a dead end of a business model and that is my concern for Framework. Once they run out of people who believe in modularity they will suffer lower and lower sales and then what happens to future component upgrades?
@@andyH_Englandyou make components upgrade profitable, you develop new form factors, you colaborate on r&d with others companies
Not really that strange.
Modularity & upgradability requires defining, for every current component, the interfaces (physical & electrical), reserving space & volume, and locking in the physical layout. It also requires anticipating & predicting future component requirements to design in sufficient flexibility & additional headroom.
That all has a cost:
- Extra engineering to design it
- additional materials, sockets, plugs, wires, screws, magnets
- over engineered parts (e.g, allowing for extra current for those future GPU upgrades)
- additional weight
- additional volume
- additional assembly time & cost and harder to automate assembly
- higher risk of assembly failures
- additional documentation, repair guides
- extra inventory to maintain
- Hinders the ability to innovate in future due to the extra constraints of maintaining compatibility across generations
All of those extra costs add to the price tag and impact the ability to be price competitive (as people have clearly pointed out)
Most people just didn't care about modularity in laptops having a small and nice looking one is more important for many. We had upgradable laptops but they were big and heavy. So if you need to cary that thing around everyday small and lightweight is somewhat important
@@Amphibax yeah it would be interesting to know how many people actually upgraded their ram, storage or WiFi card when it’s possible. I guess the numbers are so low that laptop makers resorted to non replaceable stuff to the detriment for those that do….
Would be nice if we could have a touch-pad module that goes on the numpad position on the side of the keyboard. Or even one keyboard setting that you can attach to the bottom half of the laptop instead of the top half
Thanks, really cool. I have the other framework and I was just curious on this one. I actually have no use for a gaming or larger laptop. Currently I LOVE my framework 13 inch, I have the build yourself so that I could better understand what I would have to do if something broke or I want to upgrade later. It is very easy to build in, and very easy to assemble. In fact it broke once, don't even know what. It just went black and stopped working. I opened it up took the battery out and just made sure every connector was down and then recconected the battery. Boom it worked and has been since, so I maybe didn't fully connect a connector when I first build. What is so great is if this was my last laptop a surface 2, there is no way I would have been able to do this. I still have my surface, but the battery is shot. It holds for maybe 5 minutes. I just can't get inside to replace it, now this laptop if say in 3 years has the same issue. I can buy a new battery and I can double its life. Sure it was 2x the price, but it is a nicer laptop that last 2x the time.
I am a cheap person. I HATED the idea of $1200 on a laptop. In fact I was going to buy a $400-$500 laptop. The only reason I went Framework is because in the last 10 years I have had 4 $400-$600 laptops all break in some dumb way and I can't repair. It was about $2000 over 10 years. Well if I can get 6 years out of this laptop then I will have had a better laptop at the same cost per year.
So I did the cost analysis and due to repair I argue the 13" atleast is cheaper per year.
imagine dropping it accidentally and then all the pieces go flying all over the place 😹
planning to get this for engineering, it's so sick
From experience stay at Nvidia side for engineering even though I had same thoughts to get this for my interior designer sister.
Engineering software is shit honestly and even with Nvidia is bad
@@firasrabaia
Can confirm, started in aerospace engineering before switching to computer science. For both I recommend Nvidia so you can run things locally and you’re not having to spend 70% of your study time in a computer lab.
Edit - Not because Nvidia is faster or anything like that, AMD makes very respectable stuff, it’s just that a good amount of engineering software and AI stuff in CS won’t work without CUDA.
You honestly don’t need a laptop for that since labs and anything by else you need will be supplied via a university container van you can always remote in. TBH comments like “I’m getting this for [insert whatever engineering or CS]” are over done in the framework subreddit.
Guarantee you that you can get by with just a Chromebook, there’s no need for you to state that you’ll be getting it for this as some means to further justify your expense (which I remind you this laptop isn’t cheap even if you plan to get your own memory and storage which frameworks pricing accounted for)
Honestly depends on what kind of engineering you do. For normal non ML programming, go for a macbook. For anything with AI or machine or building design stuff like Autocad and solidworks, go for an Nvidia windows machine.
@@khawar0o7 you just restated what everyone else has been saying
3 drops max maybe 4 assuming the 3rd and 4th drop was the unit in your backpack / laptop bag . Can see them clips being the 1st to go followed by accumulation of dirt and gunk especially with all them pin connectors. But still the dream laptop for laptop only uses excited to see this go far.
THis must be the future, i really want to support this and I hope the best for this company!!
Would look better in black imo, it has an old spectre kind of look in this color which might be where the “cheap” comments come from but maybe that’s just me. Looks really nice though!
When you pay the premium for framework, it's not about bang for the buck where you could buy 2 laptops instead of one framework + one upgrade. It's about sending a message that you're done with disposable tech, and you'll vote with your wallet even if it's a bit more.
My wallet has no vote, so I'm gonna keep watching craigslist for something a few years older. 😅
It's sending a message that you can afford to waste money. Honestly, a laptop I bought in 2013 was passed down to my mother and she used it until the display failed. Now my brother uses it hooked to a TV for media.
That's how you use tech if you want to be environmentally friendly. If you buy this laptop and next year change the CPU and throw out the old one, and in two years change the GPU and throw out the old one, then you're not friendly at all. It's just a self-pat on the back.
I'm team ebay and Facebook marketplace
@@Dranzelland if your laptop’s motherboard fries, then what?
@@Dranzell Am myself using a 13 year old desktop (with a minor used GPU upgrade).
But laptops tend to die quicker if they're not just used as desktop replacements. Especially cheaper ones.
Ideally you'll use one longer, but eventually something dies, or imagine, eventually you need more performance - then you do have a more environmentally friendly way to handle this (especially since you can keep using the old motherboard, if it didn't die somewhere along the way).
I just had to replace my 4 year old laptops motherboard just to keep it working, and it was NOT worth it financially, but I didn't feel like buying anything new for the interim to a framework. With a framework, I didn't need to consider if it's worth it, I'd just do it and get an upgrade along with it.
@@Dranzell You're overall right, but laptops living for 10 years is the exception not the norm. With this laptop you could've swapped the display and your mother would still have a functioning laptop. You get the idea now ? There are MANY cases where a laptop is tossed out because something in it broke that's either not repairable at all, or too expensive to be worth. Especially for people who went through that, this laptop, giving the confidence that except being struck by lightning or phisically destroyed, it can be repaired is very valuable. And not a waste of money.
I love the concept. I hope to be buying a future version of this someday.
Reminds me of the old IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads. Just a couple of screws and each part just lifted out.
The way these spacers next to the touchpad connect is a bit of an eyesore. I also wonder how it's going to work in a couple of years, after many part-swaps, if all of these magnets, sliders, etc. will not get wobbly and loose. Nevertheless, it's a very interesting and needed product in this ugly era of unrepairable, glued, soldered, anti-consumer and completely user-unfriendly devices.
It's not designed with many part swaps taking place in mind, other than for the USB C modules.
Framework is doing an incredible job with their products
One thing I would just be paranoid about is others casually just taking apart bits from my laptop
Well the most they could do is remove the ports keyboard and bezel. The other things still need screwdriver access.
Or they could just steal the whole thing like any other laptop, this isn't any different
damn imagine going to the toilet and some mf took your HDMI port
@@Michael-ue9us I think hes talking about like being at school, people will sometimes steal dongles and things like that just to be a troll. So if someone knows what a framework is and feels like being a troll they might just steal a few spacers or ports.
This is an amazing product, and the framework is awesome.
Love the 13. Batch 9 AMD order placed and love the ideas of the 16. Perhaps if the 16 gets enough companies to make modules for it and the keyboard as well, we'll see things trickle over into the 13. Love to get that RGB keyboard on a 13.
Dave, I really hope that you will read this comment. I love your channel and the content that you produce, and I love you for making this video. Repairability and maintainability are necessary for a sustainable world for ourselves and our kids. I applaud Framework for creating this laptop, and I applaud you for shining a light on it. Cheers.
Even for environmental reasons, this laptop makes sense
That's AWESOME !
It does not take much to improve on the stability of this device, all you need is some reinforced edges on the main body and thin bands of sturdy material (like a exo-skeleton grid) at the back of the screen around the logo. The idea of a reinforced grid is to keep the weight down instead of thickening the whole external body.
If they ditch the minimalist look for that idea it can be a more recognizable and effective unit.
Elevating and reinforcing the height around the fan module can also improve the rigidity while offering potentially a better cooling system.
Also LINUX SUPPORT on this machine is a star feature making me envious of the owners, this needs to be mentioned.
That is amazing. I have not watched your videos for a long time. Watching this one today, and first thing I noticed is your long hair. I grew my hair out, too. This is just giving me goosebumps. Not a bad thing at all, just a funny realization.
I wish I could last forever
You can
@@lil_brumskihow bro? :D
@@PixelSheepby leaving a legacy of success, or bringing some good children into this world
You can, all you have to do is understand the weakness of your flesh, until it disgusts you. Crave the strength and certainty of steel. Aspire to the purity of the blessed machine.
Be jellyfish
I do love everything they're doing, but with a Lenovo Legion with a 12700H + 3070 for £999.99, I just couldn't resist
That’s the point, so you buy a laptop that can’t be repaired so you’re forced to upgrade after a few years. You pay $1000 for a Legion instead of $1600 for a Framework and when the fan clogs and kills your components due to terrible design, you end up paying another $1000 for a new laptop, instead of $50 for a replacement fan/$400 for a replacement Framework motherboard.
Also as a warning, the Lenovo Legions are notorious for being one of the worst modern laptops to disassemble (even for basic cleaning/dusting), and their cooling solution attracts a lot of dust prematurely. Just look up the various repair shops who service Legions, never a good word about them. Make sure you blow compressed air about every couple of weeks so the dust doesn’t accumulate, yeah?
@@jst_TV
The framework for $1600 doesn’t even have a GPU though. You need to spend $2000 to get one with what is equivalent to an entry level GPU this year.
Theres a lot of cool things about the framework, but cost and “saving money” isn’t one of them. Dave even mentioned this in the video. Buying a new GPU module and motherboard with framework every few years is gonna end up costing the same amount as just getting a new equivalent laptop every few years, considering the 7840U board costs $700 without ram and the GPU costs an extra $400.
@@-Burb and for $2K, you’ll get a laptop that will work until the company dies. That’s what you’re paying for. It’s like why McDonald’s can sell fries and burgers for $1 to $3, while the local burger shop sells theirs for $8 to $10. Just because the local shop handmakes their food and can’t match McDonald’s scale, doesn’t mean it’s a ripoff. And again, the lower price just means you’re just buying something that cannot be fixed, only replaced. That’s where the cost savings come in, Lenovo can save money by using plastic clips and adhesive rather than screws - great for cost, terrible for longevity. So it might be cheaper upfront but when it comes to long-term, it’s definitely more expensive and more wasteful. If you want to support Right To Repair, it means supporting companies even if they’re more expensive than the completion. Just like if I want my local burger shop to succeed, I’ll go buy food from them rather than McDonald’s, even if it is more expensive. Just like how Nokia’s and BlackBerry’s were $100 to $300, while the iPhone launched at $500. Being an early adopter is expensive
@@jst_TV Yeah speccing up as close to the same thing via a Framework 16 is £2,140. So that's my next upgrade already sorted, and that'll be better than the current Framework 16. If I wanted to upgrade the Framework 16 at that time I'll still have spent more. This was all Dave's point in his previous Framework video.
All that said, I agree that if you want to support the modularity because you want that option on the market, then yes you've gotta pay more than a standard laptop. To each their own, but for me rn it just wasn't the right option. Maybe next upgrade time when they have a few more options for discrete GPU.
@@jst_TV The thing is that I don’t want a laptop that will last forever, because it’s gonna show its age over time. I want a laptop that will last 3-4 years before I replace it, which would mean needing to essentially replace everything but the chassis in the framework anyways. Any laptop lasts 3-4 years just fine as long as you don’t get the cheapest thing imaginable. I never buy plastic laptops specifically because they break, but a laptop with an aluminum or magnesium chassis is only about $100-200 more. The framework is literally double the cost, and you won’t save any money in the long run if you upgrade it to the same specs as a new regular laptop would be.
I do want framework to succeed, but I kind of doubt their prices are ever gonna get so low as to make their upgrade system (in reality it’s more of a “replace everything but the chassis and imagine it’s the same laptop” system) a viable cost savings measure over a regular mass produced laptop.
Real sustainable modular notebook solution, excellent stuff!👍
This would be great to keep for a long time, and how it easily opens means it's easier to clean the dust that enters it too. Would've loved to hear how they get around replacing the hinge mechanic since that's the most used part that easily breaks on laptops and it's hard to find a fix for. Besides that my only worry would be how reliable is keeping these different parts working together seamlessly and how long should one wait for a software update when they don't, because let's face it, some updates tend to break something and when it's at it's end of life cycle that's how yo gonna use it for the rest of it's life, and that's talking windows and android devices where they know exactly which configuration you have. Either way I am rooting for this same way I was rooting for Project Aura, I wonder how it would have improved today if it was let into the world to mature.
On the 13 inch model, the hinges are replaceable (they're screwed in). Would expect that from the FW16 as well
@@The8BitPianist thanks for the info, much appreciated!
We sacrificed too much for rigidity already, these are worthwhile trade-offs for a future of repairable devices
In respect to this laptop "in theory lasting forever" by replacing all its parts over time: Have you heard of the Ship of Theseus? What would last forever when eventually all the parts are new? The laptop, or the concept of the laptop as a metaphysical entity? 🤯
Well apart from some eye, nerve, cortex and muscle cells, you are totally replaced about every 15 yrs. But not everything. Just like the laptop will have the same aluminium skeleton intact.
@@andyb9664 Basically the only thing that makes us us from birth to death is our memories and perception of self that is stored in the brain, which also regenerates.
So you could say as long as the data, memory and OS are copied to every new regeneration of the laptop it would be the same laptop.
Shame on me for not watching your videos in a while but loving the hair. its giving Moose form step up and i love it.
No way! The way you can customise the keyboard and touchpad is unreal! That is amazing!
Late stage capitalism will not allow something like this to exist, at least how it's intended. Planned obsolescence is how companies thrive. They WANT customers to spend more year after year.
...which is the only model that works, otherwise PC makers would go out of business as people kept their laptops forever.
The issue with this laptop is they suck at marketing as well as pricing. They should take notes from Carl Pei's Nothing on how to build a brand and advertise by offering a well priced and powerful device
Am I the only one, I love your simple using Setup, very unique and it calls the attention of anyone who have eyes ❤
Initially wasn't convinced a while ago by Dave growing out his hair, but damn, he's rockin it
The thing that freaks me out is that anyone can literally just steal your modules instead of the whole laptop. 😱
That assumes there would be enough people who even know what this laptop is and are able to do anything with it. Not to mention you would still have to leave your laptop completely unattended for them to be able to take it.
But why would they do that
@hat1324 why would I do that. Because after hitting enough framework laptops I would eventually have my own. For free. I won't get greedy one part per heist
@@e2rqey wait for China to start mass producing the same type. 😑
@@calvinholditch2590 lmao
As much as I love the modularity and the idea the whole company stands behind the ''flimsiness'' are dealbreaker for me. I would expect after paying 2k for the device to have it premium feel. I personally think I would rather keep modular parts connected with srews instead of magnets to help to feel more ridget. I mean how ofter do you swap everything realistically not like you going to do that everyday ? Majority of people set it up once and keep same config for one of two years.
Agree. The main problem : flimsy.
Make it feels so cheap and broken.
Haven't seen your content in like, 6 months now, and am blown away by the hair
Love the fact once you feel need to upgrade you can turn youre old device into a auper powered tablet or pc on the go just add a monitor/keyboard.
I love this idea, hope this company succeeds. Because we can then reuse more and more the laptop. This is better for the environment and our purses
specially to be able to change cpu, gpu, screen and the speakers. Also, very important I like your video Dave2D, thank you
No guarantee that future hardware will be able to use this same frame.