Wharram Vs Others

Choosing a retirement boat. What Gives

[@lucky-gh5ox]

Wharram was a genius. Period.

[@sixtiesman100]

Some years ago I had a Tiki 30 what a brilliant boat and lots of fun also very seaworthy

[@boathemian7694]

I know a Wharram 46’ ORO design built in aluminum in the 70’s and it has worked very well

[@bigdog0455]

I have worked with GRP one off boatbuilding, C Flex specifically. I have worked with GRP molded boats and mold building. I have worked with HPDE, acrylic and lexan welding and heat bending and vacum forming in a non boat building use. I have worked with vaccum (damn, how do you spell that word?) bonding and spraying of isocyanamic foam and ablator to create thermal protection systems for cryogenic space shuttle external tanks. In my opinion HPDE is suited for blow molding or roto molding, with the giant tooling costs that are not suited for one off boatbuilding. Try cutting HPDE with non specialized self cooling tools. It melts and self welds back together behind your cut!! Try bending and welding it over a jig. Compound curves are very difficult. Try welding it with a heat gun welder. Super tedious. If you think you can build a one off boat out of HPDE, sir, you have another think coming..

[@roxyknight4909]

Wharram's are awesome boats

[@gimp079]

except they are very high maintenance

[@djohnson8182]

I'm an ironworker and have spent years welding .Aluminum is tedius and strict procedures must be followed .I have also done steel boats, much easier, much less expensive and they will hold paint well, which can't be said of aluminum, judicious use of sacrficail annodes and taking care of spots of rust keep these very strong and light hulls going for years.

[@VadiodaXT]

You should try a Wharram before you speak...
Of course, a person without mobility will hardly feel the true pleasure that a Wharram has to give.

[@Antipodean33]

Aluminium is too noisy on the water, ever slept in the bow of an aluminium boat? It's not easy to weld if you've never done it before and to do it properly takes many hours of practice. The lashings on a Wharram is what I like, I'm not looking for a racing boat, so that slight give is attractive. We've all seen the bulkhead problems on Lagoons and we all now of damage on those stress areas of cats. I'm building a Wharram because I can do it myself and relatively cheaply and it will be strong and seaworthy

[@seabournewolf2298]

all boats are "noisy" no matter what they're made of. I had a fiberglass center cockpit and the aft cabin was loud af. Aluminum doesn't shatter like glass and doesn't rot or get eaten by worms like wood. enjoy your lashed together uncomfortable boat, btw lashings also rot and definitely break in sea conditions

[@kaisailor1]

James Wharram built and designed boats based upon traditional Polynesian designs. His designs are not modern by todays standards. But they weren't intended to be. His boats appeal to a certain kind of builder. One with a desire to build what they can afford, and do it because they love it and want to try it themselves. You can "buy" a built Fuberglass Wharram Tiki -26 from Boat Smith in Florida, if you want to go that route. Or you can buy plans and build your own. KISS-keep it simple stupid. The OP never discussed cost. Aluminum is expensive and hard to work with, needing specialized tools and experience. And salt water doesn't like aluminum. But yes, it's pretty easy to repair. It also damages easily because it's soft. Aluminum tends to crinkle and crack as well. Stick with the composites. They're tried and true IMHO.

[@kaisailor1]

If you can vacuum bag, you can quite literally infuse an entire boat hull in a day and it's fully cured within a week.

[@chinalamb2605]

The Islander situation is ridiculous. I got a quote and they are $369K just for a finished hull, no fitments, and you have a 2-year wait. Unless you are just a Wharram cultist, who would pay $369K for a boat like that when you can get a fitted out Leopard used for the same money? And, their exclusive builder is in the PH, where labor is $615 US a month. If Wharram is correct, a boat can be finished in 4000 hours, then a 6 man team, working 5 days a week, 6 hours a day, should be able to finish in about 22 weeks or 4 months (it is PH you know), so it should be done for about $3000 lets say giving the team a signing bonus. Toss in materials wood and expoxy are about $65K for the basics, and then $5K for sails, motors $10K, and then $20K for avionics, fridges, stove, AIS etc. Total fitted out would only be $100-120K, so the price tage is ridiculous. The other thing is Wharram is still living in the dark ages, the cultists seem to believe that hand drawn pages and drawings are still the way to sell a KIT. They charge $4000 US for a set of plans, and then don't give you a set of CAD drawings and CNC info. Ms. Boon is deluded, and evidently, Wharram's name on the company is all that is important. But it soon will be defunct if they keep up with this business model.

[@pjwalsher]

Wow. A lot to digest here. First, aluminum is a great material for a boat, easy to work and well understood engineering principles. Same is true of wood-epoxy-glass. The size you are talking about? 60'-65'? The Wharram shapes are simple and would lend themselves to either material. Aluminum is certainly possible but Wharram and Hanneke Boone would certainly not claim to be experts in aluminum construction and design - rightly so as they have built a long record in wood and wood-epoxy composites. It s going to require a skill and resources to build a boat that size and if you aren't able to spend $1 to $2 million dollars and are building a very basic boat you can forget it. The rule of thumb is 1/4 hull and deck, 1/4 systems, 1/4 interior, 1/4 rig.
Length, displacement and speed is very expensive no matter the design or material. My old freind Dick Newick had an axiom - "You can get two of three things: low cost; habitable volume; or speed." Dick usually designed fast boats of moderate cost with small and simple interiors. Wharram and Boon probably go for lower cost and more interior room, giving up some speed. Both spent decades refining their designs to be highly practical functional vehicles for the intended purposes.
Do you really think composites are expensive because of the consumables, like buckets???? Ridiculous. A 1 quart polyethylene bucket costs about a quarter and can be reused dozens of times. Composites are expensive because of the tooling costs and labor spent in lamination.
Polyethylene? That really is ridiculous. There is no welding or bonding technology currently available and the engineering challenges you would face are considerable. They would probably best approached by building a 16 footer to start then working your way up to 25' then 35'. I doubt a 60' footer is posdible in PE. The strength to weight and stiffness to weight attributes of polyethylene are much lower than aluminum, GRP or wood-epoxy.

[@colinboniface194]

Who is this guy... It might be that in 3 years and only 143 subscribers, no one really is interested in your opinions... or the content of your presentation is just shy of laughable... and no one of note, wastes there time giving an opinion... Just a thought...

[@matthewwillis4892]

aluminium boats are cold and damp

[@crestedtern1390]

Painful, and he wonders why no comments or takers........

[@vincebrandt8137]

Interesting, I'm just getting in to this love the cats, but can't afford one, the wharram is the only one that I can build at my home location then transport for final assembly , don't like the stern section thinking of going with a newer cat design with the steps to the water line also a larger pod, Currently 62 not a lot of year left to build

[@redreuben5260]

I’m 62 similar situation, I am going to buy a used boat, some time to tart her up and go sailing. Building is a passion but I’d rather sail and buying used is waaaay cheaper.

[@chinalamb2605]

That's what I'm thinking, but I'm looking at the Islander design, but changing the stern and building a sugar scoop. The drop down swim ladder.

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

Have you seen the Maine Cats.... an evolutionary and materials offshoot from Wharrams designs.
The material thats new to the market but has excellent potential is Basalt fiber made from natural basalt Rock.
None stick silicon buckets allow you to eject dry residual Epoxy.. like a scab.

[@rickcreel3657]

Speed of construction and thinking out of the box will make a better boat. Why spend time making a bilge just make the bottom thicker. Let the bottom be your floor. If your boat is proper it won't leak. Problems with wooden boats are made during construction. These defects show up later. I told Wayne of Mangrove Charlie about how heavy aluminum really was. You do the math. At 30,000 psi tensile strength as for aluminum bamboo has 28,000 psi tensile strength. A cubic foot of aluminum would fail after 4,200,000 pounds of stress. Bamboo would fail after 4,032,000 pounds of tensile stress. The aluminum block weighs 166 pounds. The bamboo block weighs 20 pounds. If you had enough bamboo blocks to weigh 166 pounds they would fail after 35,200,000 pounds of tensile stress.,

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

Did you look at the Maine Cats and also a vessel on U..tube called Shooting Stars.

[@arnehaieschild343]

Have you buil your HDPE cat?

[@dewayneyoung6060]

Here we are almost 2 years since I posted this video about Wharrams and not a SINGLE COMMENT that should be very indicative about the Wharram market, Also I offered the Plans to an Alternative self build 55/65 foot version of the boat with ZERO TAKERS, again where is the Wharram Market? I shall doa follow up video on this subject. DeWayne

[@wisenber]

Your project certainly sounds interesting. However your question about "where is the Wharram Market" begs the further question of "what is the Wharram Market".
You mentioned the resale aspect of the brand being one driver in your decision. We know what the resale market is for Wharram boats. We don't know what the resale for Wharramish boats would be. Arguably, the brand is the largest supporter of resale prices.
After that, there is the matter of materials and propulsion. How much of Wharram's market is driven by those two factors? Would the normal Wharram buyer accustomed to wooden sail powered boats cross over to HPDE and Aluminium using a solar engine, or is that a different market?
Finally, there would be the matter of support for the builder. Wharram has decades of replicated builds and a fairly extensive community of builders to draw upon. The value of that can outweigh any consideration for the cost of plans. This is paired with the proven design and performance of an actual Wharram. A 55/65 foot build is quite an investment risk in terms of both time and finance. I would hazard to guess most that occupy that market would prefer a more known entity. You're essentially taking a niche market and looking for a niche within that market- a potential Wharram buyer/builder that isn't necessarily looking for a Wharram that doesn't prefer Wharram's materials or propulsion. That begs the final question. With those caveats, is that even the Wharram market at that point?

[@Owenlightowler]

Resale value is part of it. But mainly it's how its marketed which gives wharrams the edge. They focus on survival in storms and lotek ideas and sell it to crusties who wanna reject the modern world but do so with the material gains theve amassed from it. They don't talk down or patronise their customers and offer a guarantee that will see them to the end of the project.... Straight up this is what it will cost, this is where you can realistically go and this is how long it will take and what you need to do. Criticism of the designs is fair enough but that is why wharrams are successful.

[@wisenber]

@@Owenlightowler I concur. Their market isn't just a shape. However, I imagine the market for the bigger models doesn't have much of an overlap with the under 40 foot offerings.
The under 40 foot group is more tribal in their loyalty. It appears to be a big component of their choice.
I think that same segment has an affinity for wood and a certain comfort level in knowing they could patch one virtually anywhere in the world without needing access to expensive tools and machinery.

[@griffinbrungraber9498]

@@wisenber a large aluminum cat could carry a welding machine, and patch itself.

[@wisenber]

@@griffinbrungraber9498 Tanks and the welding machine take a decent bit of dead weight and space.

[@troyortego4655]

pretty arrogant on your take IMHO