Lawn mowers aren't typically 2 stroke!! Maybe a string trimmer, chainsaw, or snowblower. Theres also only about 100 lbs difference, so its really not as drastic as you make it out. You also don't need to add oil which is a benefit of the 4 stroke. The 4 stroke has tons of torque to sit you back low in the RPMs. The 2 stroke kind of feels flat in a sense, especially when you ride them back to back. 2 strokes won't sit you back until you get into the power band where as the 4 stroke will pull almost all the way through the RPM range, especially on that Yamaha Triple. Also the 4 stroke you won't need a rebuilt, almost ever. Theres Yamaha 4 strokes snowmobiles that have made it to 100,000 miles. A 2 stroke, you'll be doing good if you make it 10,000 miles before needing a rebuilt. If something goes wrong, sure the 2 stroke is cheaper and easier to rebuild, but Yamaha is first and foremost a motor company, I'd put my money on their reliability and never needing to touch the engine. You'll likely need to replace all the other components before touching that engine.
Sledding long flat trails in MI, I still prefer the 2 stroke. I am confident when I open the hood that I know what I am looking at and can fix 90% of the issues. Plus, that jump off the line is addictive
I didn't hear anybody mention what I consider to be a big advantage of the 4-stroke: You don't reek of oil smoke at the end of the day. We have a 2-stroke but have rented 4-strokes and I love that about them.
If you're reeking of smoke at the end of the day there's something wrong with your sled. My sled uses very little oil after a 150+ mile day, MAYBE a pint.
@@dirtyfacegeorge9938 took the words right out of my mouth, I know the video you are talking about and even told the guy he should put that as the title of the video, true story :-)
The main reason I choose a 4 stroke is simply engine reliability. Yamaha Apex's engines are capable of 50,000+ miles, thats a lot of 2 stroke rebuilds, lol
The four strokes are awesome and are much less nervous in the front having more weight. Providing you have the proper skis. Own my first 4 stroke and love it.
I own 4stroke sled and hated it to me feel like was driving a motorcycle more then a snowmobile cuz of sound of it keep it for a month sold it .never again
It’s awesome you guys are doing snowmobile stuff. We have both 2 and 4 strokes in our group. And one is a viper, one is zr 7000 and one is a skidoo 1200 the 2 strokes are 850 Polaris and skidoo and a 600 ski doo. The 4 strokes are on average 50lbs more than the 2 strokes. The 4 strokes pull hard down low but the 2 strokes catch them and in turn blow by then
@@kevinhewlett4630 it not aways about the speed go to your 4stroke mountain riding see how fast you are then you probably get stuck cuz of the weight in deep snow .
@@funtyes1970 were not taking about mountain riding in the deep snow were taking about top end on a lake this what's this topic is about correct me if I'm wrong
@@funtyes1970 if I got loads talent for mountain riding or lake riding that doesn't matter again the topic it's about top end yes two stroke better in deep snow because it's lighter it's a no brainer goin to remind you again top end top end
Maintenance at 20,000 kms is the first thing on 4 stroke ....2 stroke will need rebuilt engine or let you down usually in the worst time possible. Just saying.
It will all depend on what kind of riding you prefer. Smplify put, for those like riding mainly on trail, a 4-stroke is your sled; and for those who like riding mainly off- trail, a 2-stroke is your sled!
In my opinion if you make your/any purchase based strictly on marketing, you're most likely a very gullible human being and stand to only waste your hard earned money.
I had a 77 Panther. Goes back a long way. We had to transport all.our building material to where our camp now stands. I towed in a fibre glass sleigh 40 8ft long studs in one load. My dad had a trappers sleigh. I towed with it 14 sheets of plywood 3/4 inch thick. I started off with less and kept adding more to see when i would get bogged down. It never happened. Back the Arctic Cat had 2/3 cleats on the track...you can still see where the tracks chewed roots on trees climbing the hill to our camp. The 2 stroke is hi revving and powerful. I always found old Arctic Cats to be real good on fuel. Suzuki made awesome engines.
Glad I subsribed to this Canadian perspective on vehicles. Didn't even know they made a 4 stroke for snowmobiles. Can you do a review on the up coming 4 cylinder diesel Mercedes Benz Sprinter?
The 4 stroke is approximately 30-40lbs heavier NOT 200lbs... I’ve raced several 600 and 800 etecs and I can tell you there dead even up to 40 then the viper starts to pull on the 600. At about 55 the 800 starts to pull away from the viper. 4 strokes have higher reliability when you start to pack on the miles, say over 6k. This is when the 2 stroke should be rebuilt at a hefty price as you should only use ski doo parts or you’ll be sorry. 4 strokes are better for high mileage aggressive trail riding. 2 strokes are better for deep off trail riding.
Thank you!!! This is exactly why I checked this video out. I've ridden dirt bikes, street bike, 4 wheelers and so on my whole life. Also skidoo's (snowmobiles) since the 70's (yeah the 70's as a 6 year old kid lol). The last sled I had was early 90's, had a 1992 Yamaha Exciter 570cc. The sleds have changed so much and am looking to get back in to it at 50 years old :-). With the 4 strokes now available (not like in the 90's), I'm thinking 4 stoke but I do LOVE a 2 stroke but don't want to be concerned about replacing pistons and so one i.e doing a rebuild every 2 - 3 years. I know the 4 stroke motors go forever as long as you do the basic maintenance. I bought a 1992 CBR900RR years ago, it had about 35k kilometers on it, I put a lot more after buying it and I drove it like it was intended to be driven...the bike was still strong years later, no smoke, no compression loss etc.
@@derekjolly9815 yep. The viper motor came out of a Yamaha street bike. It started in the Nytro before going into the viper. It’s proven to be one of the most reliable engines out there. I wouldn’t trade mine for any other sled… well except maybe a sidewinder lol. In my opinion the cat/yamaha chassis handles better then the doo’s on the trail. Flatter with less ski lift in hard cornering.
I bought my first sled back in 2017 a new 2016 Arctic Cat Pantera 3000 it's a 4 stroke. It's a very heavy machine but it's comfortable as heated everything good fuel economy and I enjoy riding the trails. I've had 2 Stroke machines pass me on the trails and I could smell the fumes as they went by which is another plus when I get home I don't stink of fumes.
The 600 sport is 110hp and the Viper is 125hp, the 600 eteck is the same hp as the Viper. The sport is a 20+ year old design. These sleds aren't comparable at all
To me, the biggest difference between a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke is have a sled that is paid off with lots of life left in it compared to making payments on a sled that has a blown engine.
sounds like you have a yamaha ... im gonna guess Vector! I agree... im in the same boat.. i can spend 4k on something that still has lots of life in it with new track and lots of maintenance done and still sell it for 3k in 4 or 5 years.. i am not trying to keep up with the jonese anymore.
weight is funny. I haven't been a snowmobiler since the early 90's and I just can't believe how heavy they are now. When I was a kid, I needed to be able to lift those old elans out of the ditch. Even by time we got to the mach 1's of the early 90's, it was getting too hard for my skinny teenage body to fling these things around (of course we never had reverse) My 120lbs loved trails on a snoscoot. So when I look at moderns sleds, I tend to be more interested in things like the artic cat blast
Good video, though I thought the comparison was a bit off.. A modern 2-stroke can be as, or close to, fuel-efficient as a 4-stroke. The comparison would be better with two equal snowmobiles. The weight difference between the two might not be as big as you suggested but since the engine is heavier the weight is more centered to the front. You also have a different behavior in deep snow between the two. I've had both 4-stroke and 2-stroke snowmobiles. In deep snow I prefer the 2-stroke any day of the week. I don't hate on any of them. I just state the fact they have different behavior. If I have to choose I would go with a more modern 2 stroke which by the way is not carburated but fuel injected with better weight distribution, good fuel economy and, if not as good but good enough reliability.
I agree, their comparison was so packed full of stereotypes that it is almost useless. There are old design two stroke engines which are as simple as they say, they do use a lot of fuel, and are the cheapest machines you can buy. But their are two strokes that have fuel injection, with a computer controlling fuel, ignition timing, and exhaust valves. These two strokes are comparable to the four strokes for fuel efficiency, however they can be even more expensive than the four strokes. As far as four strokes there are manufacturers that are working on making them lighter. Comparing the same engine displacement they weigh just about the same, however the two stroke does make more power per cc. The biggest advantage a four stroke has in my opinion could be described like this. Generally a two stroke engine will have to be rebuilt before the snowmobile wears out, but a four stroke engine will outlast the snowmobile, if properly maintained.
I have one of each, both now at least 12 yrs old (but low mileage) and they each have their place. The 2 stroke (Arctic Cat) is definitely more fun, but the 4 stroke (Polaris) is way more comfortable and gets 2x the fuel economy. If I am planning to go more than 80 miles I’ll take the Polaris, but if I just want to go for a couple hours I’ll take the Cat. Both have been bulletproof reliability-wise. The problem is that I kinda want a more modern rig and I vacillate on whether to get 2 vs 4 stroke.
The 2 stroke stink is an issue that should be discussed. Just had an aunt and uncle buy a used machine and once she got on for a ride she immediately experienced buyers remorse due to the stink. They are presently looking for a 4 stroke after two rides. I'd also like to say that racing and changing sleds until you get the results you predicted based upon what you thought you knew is as far from real science as you can get. My 4 stroke Yamaha is shockingly quick and it's a two up heavy machine. It was the single factor that I was not expecting but I've had to get used to. Yes it is very heavy but it's something you will learn to deal with like you do moving from a small car to a truck.
LOL. I used to own a grasscutting business my trimmers, chainsaws, backpack blowers were 2 stroke but push mowers and zero turn tractor were 4. However back in the 80s Lawnboy and Toro offered 2 strokes but that was ages ago.
I Feel like the weight joke has been a thing for a long time and so has the 2 versus 4 stroke. You are always going to have the 2 stroke crowd and the 4 stroke crowd. Both have their pros and cons. 200 pound weight difference is not true. I have a 16 viper ltx and my dad has 2020 Renegade 600 carb. Having ridden both you can't even compare the two sleds. I'm a 4 stroke guy but I have been tempted to go back to a 2 stroke. There is soooo many awesome sleds on offer now that I think it almost comes down to brand loyalty, What you have to spend and what you are ultimately going to do with it. Take care all! Get out their and ride! This winter has been awesome so far!
Think you’re getting mixed up, the 4 stroke has a lot more torque down low and when you hit the throttle you don’t have to wait the powers right there.. while the 2 stroke has to be in the high Rpm’s to be in the powerband
I love my Yamaha 4 stroke for trail riding. 200 km on a tank of fuel and no oil or it’s smoke. BTW I am in my sixties and have never seen or heard of a 2-stroke lawnmower. 2-stroke small motorcycles, chainsaws, weed wackers and outboards? For sure!
They both have their place for sure! The 2stroke is definitely lighter and the new 2strokes get lots better gas mileage and use way less oil than back in the day. A new Ski Doo 600 E-TECs get 23mpg and are misers on oil. If I go through one gallon in winter that’s the same oil lost on the 4stroke when I need to change the engine oil each winter. My Yamaha Phazer 4stroke got the same gas mileage. My Ski Doo is lighter by about 50lbs. No smoke or smell from E-TTEC. I will never need to rebuild engine in my 4stroke but should around 6500-7000miles on ETEC or it will blow. I love both sleds, just telling you my experience as an owner of both.
I'm recommending your channel to people who are absolute noobs at sledding and want the basics. you are doing a great job for that crowd. One extremely important note to make in the 4 versus 2 debate is longevity. There are 1049s out there in units like Vectors, and Vk Pro 2s that have absolutely insane miles put on them (there is 200,000 mile pro in Nunavut for example) and most 2 stokes puke out every 10,000kms or less. Good stuff though guys.
No. I did look it up though. Apparently Don Cherry pitched this decal package. Sold only in Canada too. OK, do you remember the Ford Ranger Splash? Howard
@@TruckKing Yes Howard!! I believe they were 90s models.. used to be a yellow one in town here..they were dressed up Rangers I 🤔 think...thanks Howard (King Dad)...Ronn.
One key difference that they don't mention is that the Ski-doo is pull start. I'm located in Manitoba and it will reach -40C here. That battery on the Yamaha may or may not be able to crank that motor after sitting outside for a day or two. The oil in the crankcase will be frozen to the crank and it will be extremely hard to turn over. With the two-stroke there is no crankshaft sitting in oil so they are easier to start in the extreme cold. For the climate I live in I'd take the Ski-doo all day. Yamaha's are for old people cruising trails...unless its the Sidewinder!
The genesis 4 stroke is a dry sump design, so there is very little oil just sitting in the crank case. However, I do worry about my battery. That being said I got my rs rage started in -20 f weather when it had a bad one way starter clutch. It did take a while though and ended up having to jump the battery for more juice.
Tip your ride on its side or a complete roll-over with the engine still running and you’ll find which one will take you home. And that won’t be because of the weight.
The only thing that matters to me is which one cold starts better at -20C or so. You think you guys could add something like that to your vids? Powers nice but I'll always take the one that starts or the one that starts the easiest. Also does reliability mean that much difference on a 2 stroke sled? I grew up driving 10-20 year old sleds. All 2 strokes, A little preventative maintenance in the winter and fall and you're all good to go from my exp.
Your sled isn't setup right if you're not railing corners in the Viper. Viper stock clutching isn't good either. Get some Snowtracker carbides. www.snowtracker.com/index.php/en/products/snowtracker-en/aggressive-model
They are comparing the pricing of sleds that are five years apart! so right out of the gate, that's an unfair comparison, but if you're talking about total cost of ownership, I know the Yamaha gets at least 15 miles to the gallon on 87 which is double what that skidoo gets on Premium gas. And no need to add oil every day at $15 a quart. I'm not sure of the weight, but I don't think the Yamaha is 200 pounds more than the skidoo. I think it's closer to 100 pounds.
I know. I owned a grasscutting business. My trimmers, hedge trimmers, chainsaw and backpack blowers were 2 strokes but my lawnmowers and zero turn tractor were 4 stroke. Years ago Lawnboy and Toro had 2 stroke push mowers but that was years ago.
A 2-stroke engine can burn as much petrol as a 5 times larger cc 4-stroke engine and that petrol is a waste of fuel if you think about how inefficient a 2-stroke engine is
To my perspective I say if you want to go further on the trail the 4 stroke is the way to go and in the end you're saving money on repairs and I prefer the 4 stroke because you won't stink like exost like a 2 stroke you will smell like exost
There is no where near 200lb difference in weight. A 2022 SRX at 180+HP is only 475lb dry weight. There might be in the real world only 30lb difference.
E-tec engines are cheaper on gas than most 4 strokes, so fuel efficiency is on par with the new generation 2 strokes and 4 strokes. Also, throttle response is no-delay on 2 strokes compare to 4 stroke but can by intimidating at some new-by.
Yeah I'd definitely compare a 2 stroke to a chainsaw before a lawn mower lol. And that's just for a bare bones example for people that aren't "mechanically inclined" 🤣 2 stokes Rev higher and fire twice as often as a 4 stroke. Absolute rippers
matt the mechanic? lawnmowers arent 2 strokes man.... chainsaws are. grass trimmers are.... im a fan of this channel but this is a silly comparison. brand new 4 stroke vs ancient 2 stroke tech on the cheapest brp sled you could buy when it was new. a comparison to a modern etec would make alot more sense. and also i woukd bet big dollars that 4 stroke does not get better fuel mileage than the 600. it will get worse fuel mileage
I’ve ridden both you’re smoking some good stuff the Yamaha is miles ahead of that piece of garbage ski doo and what are you on with the power band the viper is a beast also she’s a hybrid I own One no issues in deep snow and amazing on trails
You guys lost me when you said the Yamaha is 200 lbs heavier. Stopped watching. Do your research before spouting inaccuracies. The only additional weight added to a sled with a 4 stroke compared to a similar sled with a comparable 2 stroke is maximum 25-30 lbs. You just contributed to the BS that 4 strokes are SOOOOOO heavy.
In my opinion it’s very stupid that Yamaha is using a 1000cc motor and only allowing it to pump 125 horse power when it costs 16k make different motors that weigh less with less power and keep the big boy motors and let them produce what they can
@@Zeffy55 my 600 sdi has 120hp and brand new was around 10k so transfer to a brand new 600 etec x package for 13k you could have a nice 600cc that weighs 80+ less and same power
Just to set the record straight. The dry weight on a skidoo 600 renegade 2016 is 476 lb . The dryweight of a 2021 yamaha viper is 475 . Where your estimated 200 lb's come from is probably the 15 year old myth
Non turbos 4s are about 50 lbs heavier with comparable models. Turbo sleds around 100. Wet weight sidewinder is 63x lbs. wet weight skidoo 850 is 53x lbs. vid right here on RUclips weighing all the sleds brand new and topped off with all fluids
Lawn mowers aren't typically 2 stroke!! Maybe a string trimmer, chainsaw, or snowblower. Theres also only about 100 lbs difference, so its really not as drastic as you make it out. You also don't need to add oil which is a benefit of the 4 stroke. The 4 stroke has tons of torque to sit you back low in the RPMs. The 2 stroke kind of feels flat in a sense, especially when you ride them back to back. 2 strokes won't sit you back until you get into the power band where as the 4 stroke will pull almost all the way through the RPM range, especially on that Yamaha Triple. Also the 4 stroke you won't need a rebuilt, almost ever. Theres Yamaha 4 strokes snowmobiles that have made it to 100,000 miles. A 2 stroke, you'll be doing good if you make it 10,000 miles before needing a rebuilt. If something goes wrong, sure the 2 stroke is cheaper and easier to rebuild, but Yamaha is first and foremost a motor company, I'd put my money on their reliability and never needing to touch the engine. You'll likely need to replace all the other components before touching that engine.
Well said.
Was gonna day the same lawn mowers ain’t 2 stroke
Sledding long flat trails in MI, I still prefer the 2 stroke. I am confident when I open the hood that I know what I am looking at and can fix 90% of the issues. Plus, that jump off the line is addictive
Pro trick: you can watch series at flixzone. I've been using it for watching loads of movies lately.
@Castiel Hamza Definitely, been using flixzone for years myself :)
I didn't hear anybody mention what I consider to be a big advantage of the 4-stroke: You don't reek of oil smoke at the end of the day. We have a 2-stroke but have rented 4-strokes and I love that about them.
If you're reeking of smoke at the end of the day there's something wrong with your sled. My sled uses very little oil after a 150+ mile day, MAYBE a pint.
I completely agree.
A great man once said"if your coat don't smell like gas, you ain't snowmobiling"😂
@@dirtyfacegeorge9938 took the words right out of my mouth, I know the video you are talking about and even told the guy he should put that as the title of the video, true story :-)
I love that smell 😂😂
The main reason I choose a 4 stroke is simply engine reliability. Yamaha Apex's engines are capable of 50,000+ miles, thats a lot of 2 stroke rebuilds, lol
50,000? It better lol, my dads got 227k on his and still going strong
@@sputters2000 yeah if you like have a snowmobile sounds like a motorcycle
@sputters2000 seriously? Lol wow. What motor? The 4 cylinder or 3?
The four strokes are awesome and are much less nervous in the front having more weight. Providing you have the proper skis. Own my first 4 stroke and love it.
I own 4stroke sled and hated it to me feel like was driving a motorcycle more then a snowmobile cuz of sound of it keep it for a month sold it .never again
oh man that looks awesome fun, can't wait to I'm allowed to travel back over to Canada, so keen to go snowmobile riding with some mates over there.
It’s awesome you guys are doing snowmobile stuff. We have both 2 and 4 strokes in our group. And one is a viper, one is zr 7000 and one is a skidoo 1200 the 2 strokes are 850 Polaris and skidoo and a 600 ski doo. The 4 strokes are on average 50lbs more than the 2 strokes. The 4 strokes pull hard down low but the 2 strokes catch them and in turn blow by then
You must got the only 2 stroke thats faster at top end I got a Yamaha nytro xtx 144 every 2 stroke that I race all ways get them on top end
@@kevinhewlett4630 it not aways about the speed go to your 4stroke mountain riding see how fast you are then you probably get stuck cuz of the weight in deep snow .
@@funtyes1970 were not taking about mountain riding in the deep snow were taking about top end on a lake this what's this topic is about correct me if I'm wrong
@@kevinhewlett4630 oh are we so you need talent to go fast in fast straight line wow that sounds like a lot fun .
@@funtyes1970 if I got loads talent for mountain riding or lake riding that doesn't matter again the topic it's about top end yes two stroke better in deep snow because it's lighter it's a no brainer goin to remind you again top end top end
Maintenance at 20,000 kms is the first thing on 4 stroke ....2 stroke will need rebuilt engine or let you down usually in the worst time possible. Just saying.
Probably a couple rebuilds in 20k
It will all depend on what kind of riding you prefer. Smplify put, for those like riding mainly on trail, a 4-stroke is your sled; and for those who like riding mainly off- trail, a 2-stroke is your sled!
Or at least that's what the marketing will tell you because the real idea is to sell you another sled before you actually need one.
In my opinion if you make your/any purchase based strictly on marketing, you're most likely a very gullible human being and stand to only waste your hard earned money.
I had a 77 Panther. Goes back a long way. We had to transport all.our building material to where our camp now stands. I towed in a fibre glass sleigh 40 8ft long studs in one load. My dad had a trappers sleigh. I towed with it 14 sheets of plywood 3/4 inch thick. I started off with less and kept adding more to see when i would get bogged down. It never happened. Back the Arctic Cat had 2/3 cleats on the track...you can still see where the tracks chewed roots on trees climbing the hill to our camp. The 2 stroke is hi revving and powerful. I always found old Arctic Cats to be real good on fuel. Suzuki made awesome engines.
Glad I subsribed to this Canadian perspective on vehicles. Didn't even know they made a 4 stroke for snowmobiles. Can you do a review on the up coming 4 cylinder diesel Mercedes Benz Sprinter?
The 4 stroke is approximately 30-40lbs heavier NOT 200lbs... I’ve raced several 600 and 800 etecs and I can tell you there dead even up to 40 then the viper starts to pull on the 600. At about 55 the 800 starts to pull away from the viper. 4 strokes have higher reliability when you start to pack on the miles, say over 6k. This is when the 2 stroke should be rebuilt at a hefty price as you should only use ski doo parts or you’ll be sorry. 4 strokes are better for high mileage aggressive trail riding. 2 strokes are better for deep off trail riding.
Thank you!!! This is exactly why I checked this video out. I've ridden dirt bikes, street bike, 4 wheelers and so on my whole life. Also skidoo's (snowmobiles) since the 70's (yeah the 70's as a 6 year old kid lol). The last sled I had was early 90's, had a 1992 Yamaha Exciter 570cc. The sleds have changed so much and am looking to get back in to it at 50 years old :-). With the 4 strokes now available (not like in the 90's), I'm thinking 4 stoke but I do LOVE a 2 stroke but don't want to be concerned about replacing pistons and so one i.e doing a rebuild every 2 - 3 years. I know the 4 stroke motors go forever as long as you do the basic maintenance. I bought a 1992 CBR900RR years ago, it had about 35k kilometers on it, I put a lot more after buying it and I drove it like it was intended to be driven...the bike was still strong years later, no smoke, no compression loss etc.
@@derekjolly9815 yep. The viper motor came out of a Yamaha street bike. It started in the Nytro before going into the viper. It’s proven to be one of the most reliable engines out there. I wouldn’t trade mine for any other sled… well except maybe a sidewinder lol. In my opinion the cat/yamaha chassis handles better then the doo’s on the trail. Flatter with less ski lift in hard cornering.
I haven't seen or heard of a 2-stroke lawnmower since I was a kid 50 years ago.
I have a 2 stroke lawn boy 50:1 🙂
95% of lawnmowers are 4 stroke lol
I would love to have a sled, it just doesn't work in no snow very well. Lol
I bought my first sled back in 2017 a new 2016 Arctic Cat Pantera 3000 it's a 4 stroke. It's a very heavy machine but it's comfortable as heated everything good fuel economy and I enjoy riding the trails. I've had 2 Stroke machines pass me on the trails and I could smell the fumes as they went by which is another plus when I get home I don't stink of fumes.
Homey has a 1977 lawnboy mower! They where awesome! Cuts grass and kills all mosquitoes!
The 600 sport is 110hp and the Viper is 125hp, the 600 eteck is the same hp as the Viper. The sport is a 20+ year old design. These sleds aren't comparable at all
Agreed. The power is not even comparable.
Sports are also carbureted, so you also aren't getting the throttle response of EFI.
Ya I got the 13 600 etec and I'm right there with the big dogs outta the whole!
To me, the biggest difference between a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke is have a sled that is paid off with lots of life left in it compared to making payments on a sled that has a blown engine.
sounds like you have a yamaha ... im gonna guess Vector! I agree... im in the same boat.. i can spend 4k on something that still has lots of life in it with new track and lots of maintenance done and still sell it for 3k in 4 or 5 years.. i am not trying to keep up with the jonese anymore.
@@666dynomax Nope, not a vector... a '14 ski-doo Expedition 600 ace about to roll over 9500 k.
weight is funny. I haven't been a snowmobiler since the early 90's and I just can't believe how heavy they are now. When I was a kid, I needed to be able to lift those old elans out of the ditch. Even by time we got to the mach 1's of the early 90's, it was getting too hard for my skinny teenage body to fling these things around (of course we never had reverse) My 120lbs loved trails on a snoscoot.
So when I look at moderns sleds, I tend to be more interested in things like the artic cat blast
Good video, though I thought the comparison was a bit off.. A modern 2-stroke can be as, or close to, fuel-efficient as a 4-stroke. The comparison would be better with two equal snowmobiles. The weight difference between the two might not be as big as you suggested but since the engine is heavier the weight is more centered to the front. You also have a different behavior in deep snow between the two. I've had both 4-stroke and 2-stroke snowmobiles. In deep snow I prefer the 2-stroke any day of the week. I don't hate on any of them. I just state the fact they have different behavior. If I have to choose I would go with a more modern 2 stroke which by the way is not carburated but fuel injected with better weight distribution, good fuel economy and, if not as good but good enough reliability.
I agree, their comparison was so packed full of stereotypes that it is almost useless. There are old design two stroke engines which are as simple as they say, they do use a lot of fuel, and are the cheapest machines you can buy. But their are two strokes that have fuel injection, with a computer controlling fuel, ignition timing, and exhaust valves. These two strokes are comparable to the four strokes for fuel efficiency, however they can be even more expensive than the four strokes. As far as four strokes there are manufacturers that are working on making them lighter. Comparing the same engine displacement they weigh just about the same, however the two stroke does make more power per cc. The biggest advantage a four stroke has in my opinion could be described like this. Generally a two stroke engine will have to be rebuilt before the snowmobile wears out, but a four stroke engine will outlast the snowmobile, if properly maintained.
I have one of each, both now at least 12 yrs old (but low mileage) and they each have their place. The 2 stroke (Arctic Cat) is definitely more fun, but the 4 stroke (Polaris) is way more comfortable and gets 2x the fuel economy. If I am planning to go more than 80 miles I’ll take the Polaris, but if I just want to go for a couple hours I’ll take the Cat. Both have been bulletproof reliability-wise. The problem is that I kinda want a more modern rig and I vacillate on whether to get 2 vs 4 stroke.
Your videos are helping me choose a lot, thanks!
Good video. How about longevity and maintenance comparisons?
my thoughts exactly ...
The 2 stroke stink is an issue that should be discussed. Just had an aunt and uncle buy a used machine and once she got on for a ride she immediately experienced buyers remorse due to the stink. They are presently looking for a 4 stroke after two rides. I'd also like to say that racing and changing sleds until you get the results you predicted based upon what you thought you knew is as far from real science as you can get. My 4 stroke Yamaha is shockingly quick and it's a two up heavy machine. It was the single factor that I was not expecting but I've had to get used to. Yes it is very heavy but it's something you will learn to deal with like you do moving from a small car to a truck.
Long live the 2 stroke! I had an ATV and it was a 2 stroke. More fun with the 2 stroke!
We switched from 2 stroke to 4 stroke, and I'd never go back
Dude said the best way to compare a 2 stroke is to compare it to a Lawn mower.. I’ve never seen a 2 stroke Lawn mower in my life lol.
Shoulda said chainsaw
Lawn Boy brand used to be a two stroke but I think he meant to say four stroke.
You guys are too young - lots of old mowers still around.
Electric lawn mower
LOL. I used to own a grasscutting business my trimmers, chainsaws, backpack blowers were 2 stroke but push mowers and zero turn tractor were 4. However back in the 80s Lawnboy and Toro offered 2 strokes but that was ages ago.
I Feel like the weight joke has been a thing for a long time and so has the 2 versus 4 stroke. You are always going to have the 2 stroke crowd and the 4 stroke crowd. Both have their pros and cons. 200 pound weight difference is not true. I have a 16 viper ltx and my dad has 2020 Renegade 600 carb. Having ridden both you can't even compare the two sleds. I'm a 4 stroke guy but I have been tempted to go back to a 2 stroke. There is soooo many awesome sleds on offer now that I think it almost comes down to brand loyalty, What you have to spend and what you are ultimately going to do with it. Take care all! Get out their and ride! This winter has been awesome so far!
Think you’re getting mixed up, the 4 stroke has a lot more torque down low and when you hit the throttle you don’t have to wait the powers right there.. while the 2 stroke has to be in the high Rpm’s to be in the powerband
Yea you're right, he also got the lawn mower comparison wrong, where he said it's a 2 stroke lol...
I love my Yamaha 4 stroke for trail riding. 200 km on a tank of fuel and no oil or it’s smoke. BTW I am in my sixties and have never seen or heard of a 2-stroke lawnmower. 2-stroke small motorcycles, chainsaws, weed wackers and outboards? For sure!
All my lawn mowers are 4 cycle. My string trimers and blowers are 2 cycle.
Great comparison guys, thanks.
4-stroke!! Last longer without needing to be rebuilt, way longer.
4-stroke has low end torque. 2-stroke has to rev the rpm out.
17 up 850 etec 2 stroke has more torque bottom to top than this 1050 4 stroke. And 35 more hp.
So what?
They both have their place for sure! The 2stroke is definitely lighter and the new 2strokes get lots better gas mileage and use way less oil than back in the day. A new Ski Doo 600 E-TECs get 23mpg and are misers on oil. If I go through one gallon in winter that’s the same oil lost on the 4stroke when I need to change the engine oil each winter. My Yamaha Phazer 4stroke got the same gas mileage. My Ski Doo is lighter by about 50lbs. No smoke or smell from E-TTEC. I will never need to rebuild engine in my 4stroke but should around 6500-7000miles on ETEC or it will blow. I love both sleds, just telling you my experience as an owner of both.
Nothing sounds sexier tha a two stroke triple
I'm recommending your channel to people who are absolute noobs at sledding and want the basics. you are doing a great job for that crowd. One extremely important note to make in the 4 versus 2 debate is longevity. There are 1049s out there in units like Vectors, and Vk Pro 2s that have absolutely insane miles put on them (there is 200,000 mile pro in Nunavut for example) and most 2 stokes puke out every 10,000kms or less. Good stuff though guys.
That's Bill. Most appreciated.
Good Video as always!!
Hey Matt!!! Does your Dad remember the old Ford Enforcer trucks?? They built them in the 90s! Cool trucks!!😎Hey Steve!!
No. I did look it up though. Apparently Don Cherry pitched this decal package. Sold only in Canada too. OK, do you remember the Ford Ranger Splash? Howard
@@TruckKing Yes Howard!! I believe they were 90s models.. used to be a yellow one in town here..they were dressed up Rangers I 🤔 think...thanks Howard (King Dad)...Ronn.
@@TruckKing Ok..so it was introduced in 93' Flair side box and I think it was a sport package..might ve had V6 motor
One key difference that they don't mention is that the Ski-doo is pull start.
I'm located in Manitoba and it will reach -40C here. That battery on the Yamaha may or may not be able to crank that motor after sitting outside for a day or two. The oil in the crankcase will be frozen to the crank and it will be extremely hard to turn over. With the two-stroke there is no crankshaft sitting in oil so they are easier to start in the extreme cold.
For the climate I live in I'd take the Ski-doo all day. Yamaha's are for old people cruising trails...unless its the Sidewinder!
Hey neighbor... my sediments exactly👍👍
I hate that the new dirtbikes and skis don't have a back up kick starter or pull starter.
Thats some wise words right there
The genesis 4 stroke is a dry sump design, so there is very little oil just sitting in the crank case. However, I do worry about my battery. That being said I got my rs rage started in -20 f weather when it had a bad one way starter clutch. It did take a while though and ended up having to jump the battery for more juice.
The base model of a Genesis 4 stroke used to be 155HP. It got nerfed
I was hoping to be able to hear each sled.
Do a 4stroke turbo vs 2stroke
Tip your ride on its side or a complete roll-over with the engine still running and you’ll find which one will take you home. And that won’t be because of the weight.
Would go lightweight myself. For several reasons.
So basically the 2 strokes are better and always have been and always will. Ty
The only thing that matters to me is which one cold starts better at -20C or so. You think you guys could add something like that to your vids? Powers nice but I'll always take the one that starts or the one that starts the easiest.
Also does reliability mean that much difference on a 2 stroke sled? I grew up driving 10-20 year old sleds. All 2 strokes, A little preventative maintenance in the winter and fall and you're all good to go from my exp.
If the weather cooperates we will get the cold start info!
Power and longevity of the motor life
This is like a comparison between a Orange and a green bean. How about the 600 sport and a 900 ace. Really....
4 stroke snowmobiles for me then.
Your sled isn't setup right if you're not railing corners in the Viper. Viper stock clutching isn't good either. Get some Snowtracker carbides. www.snowtracker.com/index.php/en/products/snowtracker-en/aggressive-model
Thanks for the tip Bryan
They are comparing the pricing of sleds that are five years apart! so right out of the gate, that's an unfair comparison, but if you're talking about total cost of ownership, I know the Yamaha gets at least 15 miles to the gallon on 87 which is double what that skidoo gets on Premium gas. And no need to add oil every day at $15 a quart. I'm not sure of the weight, but I don't think the Yamaha is 200 pounds more than the skidoo. I think it's closer to 100 pounds.
Did you use an Etek???
Four-stroke fuel economy lightweight!!!
I really like my forestroke
i wonder how healthy these guys would look and feel if they bought a pedal bike instead of a sled...
Skidoo etec engines get better fuel economy than a 4stroke and they use very little oil
Yup. And they're actually clean running. Not bad for the environment.
Sorrry boys but a Yamaha 4 stroke is on another level from your etec
That Yamaha would destroy that ski doo in a longer race.
Love the smell of a two Stroke-smells like victory
Like Napalm in the morning…
Lawn mower two stroke? Not many of them
I know. I owned a grasscutting business. My trimmers, hedge trimmers, chainsaw and backpack blowers were 2 strokes but my lawnmowers and zero turn tractor were 4 stroke. Years ago Lawnboy and Toro had 2 stroke push mowers but that was years ago.
A chainsaw would be a better comparison.
Wow a lot of misinformation given here... I am glad some folks pointed out some of it in the comments already.
came for the YAM aha, stayed for the YAM aha
with a dash of skidew
We'll be sure to lay on the slang a little harder in the next review. :)
God damn didnt realize the snowmobile world was a bunch of whimps when it came to 2 strokes after reading this comment section lmfao.
A 2-stroke engine can burn as much petrol as a 5 times larger cc 4-stroke engine and that petrol is a waste of fuel if you think about how inefficient a 2-stroke engine is
Please don’t tell me your community is having a. War as well😂?
To my perspective I say if you want to go further on the trail the 4 stroke is the way to go and in the end you're saving money on repairs and I prefer the 4 stroke because you won't stink like exost like a 2 stroke you will smell like exost
There is no where near 200lb difference in weight. A 2022 SRX at 180+HP is only 475lb dry weight. There might be in the real world only 30lb difference.
it's all about power delivery.........2 smokers deliver.............................
E-tec engines are cheaper on gas than most 4 strokes, so fuel efficiency is on par with the new generation 2 strokes and 4 strokes.
Also, throttle response is no-delay on 2 strokes compare to 4 stroke but can by intimidating at some new-by.
Yeah I'd definitely compare a 2 stroke to a chainsaw before a lawn mower lol. And that's just for a bare bones example for people that aren't "mechanically inclined" 🤣 2 stokes Rev higher and fire twice as often as a 4 stroke. Absolute rippers
i dont know i cant get my self buy a 4-stroke snowmobile to me 4-stroke don't sound like a snowmobile
What's the difference? Hmmmm
I guarantee that the Ski Doo does not weigh 425 lbs wet.
Not a single mention of torque...
matt the mechanic? lawnmowers arent 2 strokes man.... chainsaws are. grass trimmers are....
im a fan of this channel but this is a silly comparison. brand new 4 stroke vs ancient 2 stroke tech on the cheapest brp sled you could buy when it was new. a comparison to a modern etec would make alot more sense. and also i woukd bet big dollars that 4 stroke does not get better fuel mileage than the 600. it will get worse fuel mileage
We test what we get. Still lots of two-stroke lawnmowers around Taylor. 4-stroke mileage - way better.
@@TruckKing which brand mowers sold in the last 20 to 30 years were 2 cycle?
Lawn-Boy sold 2-stroke mowers up till the early 2000's. Duraforce 6.5hp models, owned many.
Nowadays, 4 stroke all the way
Lawn mowers are 4-strokes.
I’ve ridden both you’re smoking some good stuff the Yamaha is miles ahead of that piece of garbage ski doo and what are you on with the power band the viper is a beast also she’s a hybrid I own One no issues in deep snow and amazing on trails
That aint a 2016 ski doo its between 2008-2012
It is a 2016 - they continued to build and sell that package as a "value" package for a few years after the 2012 redesign.
2 stroke mower???
Lol. Maybe he meant trimmers, leaf blowers etc. Cuz Lawnboy stopped making 2 stroke push mowers years ago.
I know, I thought the same thing. These two are definitely not mechanics lol. And 200 lbs extra weight for a 4 stroke? Come on boys.
Don't compare a 2 stroke to a lawn mower engine. Chainsaw engine, yes.
That's what it is lol, listen to it
You guys lost me when you said the Yamaha is 200 lbs heavier. Stopped watching. Do your research before spouting inaccuracies. The only additional weight added to a sled with a 4 stroke compared to a similar sled with a comparable 2 stroke is maximum 25-30 lbs. You just contributed to the BS that 4 strokes are SOOOOOO heavy.
2 stroke lawnmower?
Doesn't turn in tight? Maybe you don't know how to ride trails😂
The 2016 isn’t carbureted
It is - 600 CARB motor.
talking how much you paid for a 600 ski-doo 6 yrs ago get your facts straight
so when do they not allow any new 2 strokes . like they did with motorcycles . remember the environment LOL .
Need the extra cash for rebuilds whdn owning a skidoo
In my opinion it’s very stupid that Yamaha is using a 1000cc motor and only allowing it to pump 125 horse power when it costs 16k make different motors that weigh less with less power and keep the big boy motors and let them produce what they can
600cc 2 strokes are also 16K and make around 125hp?
@@Zeffy55 just had a stroke trying to understand your reply
@@camdenbarker5522 600’s have less power and cost the same
@@Zeffy55 my 600 sdi has 120hp and brand new was around 10k so transfer to a brand new 600 etec x package for 13k you could have a nice 600cc that weighs 80+ less and same power
@@camdenbarker5522 Way less power. Vipers dyno at 135hp. They compare to 700cc 2 stroke more than a 600
Brp bring rings and pistons
And some how get crankshaft in there too
Break, repair ,part-out
@@micheljean7845 haha never heard that one
Just to set the record straight. The dry weight on a skidoo 600 renegade 2016 is 476 lb . The dryweight of a 2021 yamaha viper is 475 . Where your estimated 200 lb's come from is probably the 15 year old myth
Curious - where did you get the Viper weight? Yamaha does not publish weights.
Lol. No way in hell it is as light as the 2 strokes. Somebody hasn’t ridden both. Manufacturers play games with dry and wet weights.
Non turbos 4s are about 50 lbs heavier with comparable models. Turbo sleds around 100. Wet weight sidewinder is 63x lbs. wet weight skidoo 850 is 53x lbs. vid right here on RUclips weighing all the sleds brand new and topped off with all fluids
@@TruckKing I googled it. I assumed your machine is a renegade 600. The models with bigger engines come up with a higher dry weight.
There’s absolutely no way the Yamaha is a pound lighter then an XP chassis Skidoo.... Not buyin that for a second!
First
You guys cannot be more wrong two strokes rule the world!😁