Why Doesn't Sauron Turn Invisible with the One Ring? 👀
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2023
- How does the ring work? Why does Frodo turn invisible, but not Sauron? How was it really made and how does it effects the wearer?
Tolkien Questions Answered
Tolkien Middle Earth Lore |
Gandalf, Tolkien, Wizards, Rings of Power, ROP, LOTR, Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, Merry, Frodo, Aragorn, Sauron, Galadriel, Boromir, Elrond 
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What if Sauron slipped and his Ring Fell into Mount Doom
🤣🤣 Can you imagine if right when he made the thing... "One Ring to Rule Them All... One Ring to.... " "Son of a TOok!!!" 🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167
Aaaaand here we go again.
There's actually a song by russian songwriter Michail Elizarov called "The Orc song" that describes War of the ring from orc perspecrive in a manner similar to russian songs of WWII. And the story is also different: Mordor (being a metaphor for soviet union) is victorious, fellowship of the ring is called Gandalf-Jugend, nazguls are "red-starred" which is a usual epithet for soviet aviation etc.
In the end, drunk Sauron slipped and fell into the Orodruin. That caused confusion and then Tolkien wrote a totally different story, twisting historical truth and thats the version we all know and love.
Then he would die... like..again.
Make video
A less complex way of explaining this is that putting on the one ring doesnt turn you invisible but rather allows the wearer to slip between the material world and the spirit/wraith world. Hence why if you wear it for too long you will indeed become a wraith yourself which is why the nazgul no longer have bodies that are visible.
Well said, well said! I should have had you write this video! 😅
But your explanation didn't include Sauron wearing a Legolas mask. I mean just think about that sentence... "Sauron Wearing a Legolas Mask!!" 🤣🤣🤣
May I ask whether the same fate awaited the seven Dwarven rulers? I didn't read Silmarillion yet, and my reading of LOTR was a while ago, so I may not remember rights. Reportedly, the 7 rings made dwarves even greedier for gold than they already were. And they were basically too stubborn for the mind control. But what about their bodies and the spiritual world? Could someone explain this to me, please?
@@kamranismayilzade3789 GREAT QUESTION!!! And unfortunately... you're basically right on all accounts.
The truth is we just don't really know much of anything about the dwarves. They are a complete mystery (at least as far as I know):
* Don't know what happens to them when they die
* Don't know where their spirits go
* Don't even know for certain how long they live
* Don't know how they reproduce
* Have never seen a dwarf women (at least in the books)
* Have never seen a dwarf child (again, at least in the books)
* Have no knowledge of how they wed, what family life it like, etc.
Honestly, we just don't know the basics. There is even some limited debate on if they have spirits the same was men and elves do, or if it's something unique. And then there are suggestions that they reincarnate into future dwarves.... ＼（〇_ｏ）／
But as to the rings, specifically, we are told that Dwarf minds are just too weird and no one can really figure them out. So the rings don't work on them. They do make them greedy and gold hungry and selfish, but as far as we know that's about it. No turning into ghosts (if Dwarves even have spirits like us).
Sry for the lousy answer. It's a mystery? 🙂
@@kamranismayilzade3789 the dwarven rings don't follow the same methodology as the one ring as it doesn't make wearer invisible. Also the dwarves didn't seem to live longer lives compared to other dwarves and would happily pass on their rings of power.
@@thegreyhavens167 Maan, thank you for the wrap up! It seems there is so much more to this world, a lot of things that Tolkien didn't manage to tell us in time. May he rest in peace.
That Elden Ring intro is fire 🔥🔥
Thanks.
Lord of the Elden Rings
Brilliant! 🔥🔥🔥
Don't do boromir like that he was a good soldier, lots of people fell to the corruption of the ring!
Why is it so fun to pick on movie Boromir??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ok. To make it up to Boromir, my next short video is called Boromir's Greatest Moments. It's going to be "epic" 😅
Stop bullying Borimir 😤
🤣🤣🤣 This comment made me so happy!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Honestly, I love Boromir. He is maybe the most relatable person in the fellowship (maybe Pippin), but it's just SO MUCH FUN to pick on movie Boromir! 🤣🤣
fwiw, in my newest video on the 👻Ghost Army👻, I dont say anything bad about Boromir. (though there was that one visual joke in Lothlorien... :)
Hope you like the videos. Thanks again!
That Sauron peeking out from the forge in Skyrim.... I'm dead!!! So funny.
🤣 glad you liked it! Why does Skyrim always make me laugh?? 😅
@@thegreyhavens167 seriously bro 🤣 why didn't Peter Jackson not hire you to be his assistant producer ?? what you are doing is dope !!!!!
Perfection once again, always so high quality
Thanks again! Appreciate the positive vibes! 😅
Ah thanks, went some way to explaining why Tom Bombadil could see Frodo with ring on...i'm assuming he is so OP hence the ability to defeat Barrow Wights
Question? What is happening with Barrow knife aka "nice shiny Elven dagger" between Merry and awitch King...
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
As for the Barrow blade and Merry.... well I have a whole video on that 😅: ruclips.net/video/Y3p7o5QyZ_Q/видео.html
But assuming your not in a video mood:
* Witchy fought a war against the Dunedain for about 500 years
* No weapon seemed to hurt him... they just explode and shatter when they touch him
* A Dunedain smith finally found a way to make enchanted daggers that could break the spell
* But they never got a chance to use them
* The barrow was the tomb on an ancient Dunedain king, and had some of those special daggers inside it.
* So Merry's blade might have been just about the only thing on the planet that could hurt Witchy
Note: Tommy B is a baller. He immediately recognized those blades for what they were. I'm not saying that he knew Merry would come up against Witchy... but I dunno... I would not put it past him.
Also, they aren’t Elven daggers, they’re Dunedain daggers.
Dude give that editor a raise man like🥶🥶🥶🥶…
And as always u know im gonna say it…khand…
＼（〇◡ｏ）／ Aw yeah.... I just realized that I might need to hire an editor! Here I have been doing is all myself 🤣🤣
Don't worry... Khand is prob coming up next week... maybe....
Ok, what is your issue with Boromir? Aside from how easily he was tempted, and the fact Faramir was supposed to be there, he was a good man! Why do you s**t on him so much?
🤣🤣🤣🤣 I honestly love book Boromir. He is a very relatable character....
But why is it so fun to pick on movie Boromir... 🤣🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167 Is it because he's played by Sean Bean?
@@acolyte06312 100%!!! And don't get me wrong I love Sean Bean. But he just brings such a meme-y presence to the role. And let's be honest, just about 100% of what they wrote for Boromir to say in the movies ends up being 100% wrong:
* "not simply walk into Mordor" : followed by Sam and Frodo walking into Mordor 🤣🤣
* "why do you recoil, I am no thief" : followed by Boromir immediately trying to steal the ring 🤣🤣🤣
* "winter is coming..." : oh wait, that one did happen. My bad!!
OK, ok , ok... let me see if I can make a vid that gives Boromir some love. It's been a while since I picked on Saruman... 🤔
@@thegreyhavens167 Could you explain the history of Glamdring? My dad is finally reading the Silmarillion (after much pronpting on my part) and he's still confused how the sword is related to Gondolin.
Alright, sir, you are legitimately hilarious in your presentation, all the while staying true to the Lore of LoTR.
I simply had to subscribe finaly after serious amount of lurking around your various works.
Now, tell me, sir, have you read the Silmarillion? I mean this year of course? :)
+][+
Aw yeah!!! Glad you liked it 🤣🤣
I personally LOVE LOVE thinking about the Sims, but honestly find it sometimes a chore to actually read cover to cover. In the last 15 years, only read it 4 times start to finish... but the parts I love I have read like 20 times each. I dunno, is that weird?
@@thegreyhavens167 nah we get it. we focus on the parts we like most
The use of ER theme is so freaking perfect for this
Aw yeah!!! ＼（〇◡ｏ）／ Glad you liked it. Nothing really goes as hard as ER! What an EPIC experience that game was.
@thegreyhavens167 love how its also kind of a pun lol
so the one ring literally has high +spirit bonus
🤣 Should have had you write this video.... could have shortened it down to one sentence 🤣🤣
Your pixel animations are so cool !
Thanks... I really appreciate that. I'm not talented enough to create real art, so trying pixel art instead 😅. Really glad you like it!
Interesting!!! I learned a lot! Thank youuuu
Aw yeah!! Glad it was helpful! ＼（〇◡ｏ）／
🤩❤✨
“I told you about Arwen” lol 😂
The reason why Sauron did not become invisible when he had the ring on his finger is as follows:
1) Sauron alone in Mordor forged the Ring for himself.
2) He filled it with dark magic.
3) Part of his abilities and powers were transferred to the ring.
4) As long as he had the ring on his finger, he had his physical body.
5) Isildur cut it off, then Sauron was only his spirit self.
I love it! Great comment and well said 😅
But let me give you a polite challenge:
-- in the LOTR he still doesn't have his ring, but in the book totally has a physical body.
-- Gollum, in particular, was personally tortured by him and said he still only has 9 fingers.
What do you think? Am I crazy here? 🤪
Yeah I get it, but you need to factor in the premise that whilst the ring exists, Sauron can take physical form. It's not until the ring is destroyed, that Sauron loses his physical form permanently and becomes a weak and wandering spirit. The key word being " Permanent"
Whilst the ring exists that part of Sauron within the ring still exists.
It was lucky that Tolkien didn't decide that when the ring as a vessel is destroyed, that the freed spirit doesn't return to its original vessel, I.e. Sauron.
Now that would have been a disaster. 😊😊😊❤😊😊😊
@@thegreyhavens167 Perhaps in second coming intentionally Sauron didn't want his second phisical body have 10 fingers to always remind him (like alarm clock) of his past failure with Isildur ...
After all he is Immortal therefore in 10 000 + years he might make same mistake again...
And we know how he hates to loose !!!
Perhaps because is mostly black magic 🪄 and minor amount of his spirit The One Ring was made of it ???
So as is not entire Spirit it vanishes while being cast in fires of Mount Doom
@@thegreyhavens167 In the films, we get a small glimpse of the actual torture of Gollum, during the explanation to Frodo by Gandalf. He said as follows: servants of Sauron captured Gollum and tortured him until he told where the ring was.
And then Gollum cried out in pain: "Baggins".................! "The Hobbit Shire"................!
The spirit of Sauron (the Great Flaming Eye) learned where the ring was. Then he sent out his Nazgul. To find whoever had it and turn him into one of them and kill the others. Sauron had also received his ring.
But it didn't go as planned. My answer to your question is the following:
I think you are not: "Crazy".
You are, rather: "Smart".
Video idea 😀 💡 Why did collum bilbo live so long when he had the one ring
Way ahead of you 🤣🤣: ruclips.net/user/shortsDOWaKKLsFz4?feature=share
That's a good idea though for a longer video. Let me think on that one. 🤔
Well, Ring, in all its power, failed to corrupt Sam
True! In the books Sam wore it for a few hours, right, and totally rejected the ring. What a legend!
I know JRRT said many times that anyone would eventually lose the fight to resist the ring, even Sam, but I dont know... Sam is a ROCK STAR!!
@@thegreyhavens167Yeah, but Gandalf or Galadriel would lose in mere seconds. Hobbits had high innate resistance against the ring, still Smeagoll was corrupted in seconds, too. Bilbo was partly corrupted VERY quickly (he started lying, which was uncharacteristic for him), but never fully. Frodo, well, no one could resist for so long - and inside the heart of Sauron realm, too! It is all very understandable.
But Sam... Frankly, in my opinion, there was so much love in Sam, that there was not too much place for Ring's influence :D
I mean, personal, directed, tender and strong love to someone particular. Sometimes that love was for good, sometimes kinda for evil (when he trashed Gollum verbally and broke his only chance of redemption because of fear and jealousy he felt concerning Frodo). Neither Gandalf, nor Galadriel, nor Boromir had such love.
But Sam - Sam had Frodo. Demons can only take place that is unoccupied, but Sam's heart was full of love. Love is a natural antithesis to power, after all. (And no, I am not meaning it in romantic way, although one could interpret this love in such a way too).
I agree. Sam is just almost incorruptible. How do tempt someone who really just doesn't want all the things that you are tempting with?
But I wonder if it's really innate to hobbits, or just their lifestyle and philosophy on life. In my opinion, there is one other person in the story that seems flat out incorruptible, and they are super different than Sam in every way. Elrond the Half-Elven. Frodo lays on a bed in a coma or whatever for days... with Elrond personally taking care of him... right there next to the ring. And he never takes it. Elrond even puts a gold chain around it, meaning he interacted with it somehow, but still seems 100% not interested in it. That buy is a low key baller!
I fuckin love the music, it’s like so out of place and so perfect at the same time, keep up the good work
Thanks for sending the positive vibes my way. Glad you liked it!!! 😅
answer that makes a lot of sense ❤ Love the video can I wait to see the next one
Awesome! Thank you! Glad you like it ＼（〇◡ｏ）／
Deserve more followers man fr
Aw yeah... THANK! I really appreciate that! 🙇
I hope you have an AWESOME wednesday.
@@thegreyhavens167 cheers lad, binged all your LOTR vids and shorts over the last couple weeks - unique style and definitely improvement from the practically literature essays that most LOTR channels do, have a good rest of your week bro
Thanks! I do like a lot of the other Tolkien channels out there... but kinda feel like they are a bit too reverent with the text. I feel like I'm a kid in church again. Just trying to have a bit more fun with it! 🤣
Glad you liked it. Have an AWESOME Thursday!
Omg, a new grey havens long form vid!! I cant wait for this
Yeah!!! Best Comment of the Day!!! 🏆🏆🏆
Thanks for sending these happy vibes my way. I appreciate it, and glad you like the vids.
what an explanation. Thanks! Love your presentation.
Aw yeah 😎. Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. Really glad you liked it.
He called saruman a legend 💀
🤣🤣 You're right! I gotta troll on Sman more to make up for that.
ur channel is seriously underrated
Hey thanks, glad you like it! 🙇
Yeah I haven't figured out how to really get views 😑, but fwiw I am having a TON of fun making these 😎
What year am I watching this? This is EPIC! Love your style!
I personally loved that “spirit calculator” (enough that I took a screenshot!)
Aww yeah! ＼（〇◡ｏ）／ Thanks, I really appreciate that!
I really struggled to find a way to visually explain what was in my head on that one, and was worried it wouldn't make any sense! Glad it came through.
Wait so can Gandalf see the wearer of the Ring??
Thanks very interesting :)
Glad you think so! Thanks!
Sauron should read up why making a "totally-not-a-phylactery" is generally a bad idea, Michael Jacksson from the potterverse could
go on and on about how it wasn't a good idea (like making his pet into one)..
0:07 where is that sound effect from? Heard it a ton but never knew source
😅 Skyrim - Quest Completed!
Why wasn’t Bilbo super corrupted by the ring? Why did Frodo go nuts?
Edit: but then why is Galadriel still wearing hers in the film…??
Why was Bilbo effected way less than Frodo? Hard to say, but here are some guesses:
* BILBO IS A TOTAL ROCK STAR!!! imho, Bilbo is a legend of his time. No one in the story can really match his resume, except maybe Gandalf or Aragorn. Kinda unfair to compare folks to Bilbo the legend! 😎😎
* Would also note, book people react differently than movie folks. In the movies, everyone goes CRAZY for the ring. In the books, it's honestly much more tame. I really can't remember Frodo ever going nuts for the ring until the very end in the volcano.
Disclaimer: I might be a bit of a Bilbo fanboy 😅😅
Gandalf has one of the elven rings, so can he be controlled by sauron?
Yep, absolutely. At the time of the LOTR the three rings were worn by Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel. If Sauron ever got his greasy hands on the One Ring, he would probably instantly dominate and control those three. Yikes!
After this explanation I kinda have feeling that Sauron wasn't killed. Its hard to explain, but it seemed like power from the ring wasn't consumed by the world, so it should have returned to his spirit that couldn't remain in mortal world though physical body. But there were other lesser forms that could contain whats left of him (until his "light" completely fades away). Of course this can't be a threat, but if someone powerful, somehow manages to gain his knowledge ...
Choice of background music needs consideration. The script is cool though
Thanks, hope you liked the vid 😅
As for the music, I think I know which song your talking about. It's the 8-bit version of Rohan's theme song from the films at the very end, right? Kinda boring for me to just use a song from the LOTR movie in a LOTR video..... Super lazy! I kinda agree with you 😞. I was hoping because it's an 8-bit retro version it would still be interesting 🤔? I dunno, what do you think?
That's for the feedback!
Nah It's cool.
ITS DAY 3 BAABBYYY BOROMIR IS ACTUALLY A REALLY COOL AND EPIC AND NICE GUY TRUST ME YOU SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT HOW COOL AND AWESOME HE IS (hes only human after all)
Oh no!!! ＼（〇_ｏ）／ You gotta stop it man... your going to make me actually do it??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167 your strength will fail to the boromir ring
Ok @slowandcalm3665 , if that is your real name.... let me ask you a question 🤣.
Question: in your opinion, what is one thing that Boromir did that was most impactful or meaningful. ???? 🤔🤔🤔
@@thegreyhavens167 I'll make a point I bet you won't have heard before
He made frodo realise that the fellowship was doomed to fail like imagine if boromir wasn't there and it was gimli legolas or aragon that were corrupted first they likely would have killed frodo and successfully taken the ring dooming all of middle earth, it's just my interpretation but I think it's a decent though that effectively without him frodo would have realised too late it was corrupting his companions and lost the ring
No vids for this kind of questions, just read the books! You can do it, i believe in you! ❤
Well... but without vids, where would you ever see the awesomeness of Sauron Wearing a LEGOLAS FACE!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Oh yeah, if you are interested, here are the stats from the people that watch this channel. Very interesting:
- 36% | Movies only, never read a LOTR book
- 23% | Read the main books only
- 41% | Read the Sims and other works
So if those numbers are generally true, only 41% of people have a chance of answering these kind of questions on their own. Interesting, right? What do you think?
Will you talk about melkor?
Nice.. your right. I talk about his some in the video on Balrogs: ruclips.net/video/_Bptv18iWvc/видео.html
But a more complete video is probably a good idea. Let me look into that. Thanks for the good idea!! 🙇
Nicely explained but weren't a lot of elves including the high king distrustful of Annatar (minor detail this wasn't really about that)? If yes did Gil-galad know about what Celebrimbor was cooking up with Annatar?
Great comment. Yeah I probably was a little too overly simplistic there while trying to keep it brief. In my defense, I was pretty distracted by the awesomeness of Sauron Wearing A LEGOLAS MASK!!!! 🤣🤣
Yeah your right. I read it as most elves accepted him, but a select few (Elrond, Galadriel) rejected him. But it's vague, and I think you could also read it the way you said it too!
My read is that many knew the smiths of Eregion were working on rings, then Celebrimbor did his thing in relative secret by himself. So no one, including GG, prob knew what he was up to with the three rings. I think it took everyone (esp Sauron) by Surprise. But that's more my read of it than exactly what the text says.
@@thegreyhavens167 The video is super cool including the Legolas Mask! The balance between the content matter and staying on subject with your sense of humor is brilliant.
Thank you for your reply, don't know how you do it being so patient with noobs like me, that know just enough to cause chaos. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I love stories and the history of middle earth is just a great story.
Question: If Sauron was able to regrow physical form at least twice after deaths of his body (Fall of Numenor and Finger Cut by Issildur), why then Saruman can't regrow physical form in few centuries and come back to middle earth?
Same for Balrogs. If they are the beings of the same type as Sauron, what preventing them from regrowing physical body after its death?
Great Question!! Well Said! I think I might make a video on Maiar and this type of thing. Thanks! 🙇
Ok, here goes, will try to be short:
* For Maiar, when their body dies its a traumatic experience. Can take them a long time to recover and make a new body.
* Also some evidence that the more times the die, the worse it gets. Takes Sauron longer and longer each time.
* Going to Valinor for healing seems to be the best plan, but of course the baddies can't do this.
So Sauron became a master at coming back. But the problem isn't the dying, its the destruction of the ring. Much of his spirit (life force, fea, etc) was in that ring, and was destroyed in the lava. He became a shell of himself, like 1% Sauron. His spirit didn't die, but is still here in middle earth wandering around somewhere. It's just that he is so weak that he can never again interact with the physical world or take shape. No one can even hear him or notice him. He is an irrelevant ghost.
His problem was putting his unkillable spirit into a destroyable physical object. That created the one scenario where most of his spirit could be actually destroyed. What a fool of Took!
Yes, its pretty clear with Sauron, but the Curumo (SaruMan) didn't gamble with his Fea on artifacts. He could possibly return n time, since Valinor is shut for him.@@thegreyhavens167
Same question for Balrog. If Balrog is killed, and he didn't put his fea in anything desctructable, can Balrog regain body in few centuries / millenias?
@@tamplier3724Well, the way Tolkien set it up, they certainly should be able to. Perhaps they do regen, but are choosing to hibernate until the Final Battle?
or untill greedy dwarves wake them up) @@john-er6or
Very fun viedo i have qvestion
So can gandalf,tombobadyl,suruman or barlog see user of the ring? Bc they are very much spirits as well
OOhhhh.... I love this question! Well said!
Here is my personal answer, but others might read it differently of course 😅:
* YES - I think they can all see the "invisible" ring bearers
* Bombadil is the only one we know 99% for sure, as it's stated in the books. Frodo puts it on and tries to slip out and Tommy B sees him easily.
* When BB disappears at his birthday party, Gandalf follows him straight home. Suggests to me G could see him as well.
* They are already spiritual beings, and spirits can see spirits, so it makes sense to me that they could see the ring wearers!
There you go. What do you think?
Sauron: Im inevitable..
*Sees literally Frodo, Bilbo, Isilidur, Gollum going invisble*
Sauron: ...Welp i tried.
🤣 There is a great Ironman joke in there somewhere
Honestly, I need a comedy from Sauron's perspective. I had no idea I needed that until just now!
Tolkien redefined meny modern fantasy stereotypes but one is verry scarce in his writings. Only in the story of beren and luthien i found the mention of sauron turning into a vampire 🧛♂️ and depending on the version luthien disguising as one. But i never found any other mention of them. The same question goes for werewolfs whom haster sauron was but we never see more of them. What are Tolkiens definitions of vampires and werewolfs?
Or is it written clear and i only can't find it in the german translations?
Great question! 😄 Unfortunately, I don't have a great answer 😐
As far as I know, those little bits your referenced in tale of Beren and Luthien are the only mentions of vampires. Nothing more in the English versions either.
For werewolves, we know that the werewolves were started when Sauron took a mighty wolf beast and imprisoned an evil spirit in it, creating Draugluin the blue wolf. He is the father of all the other werewolves and even eventually the wargs too. But what kind of "spirit"? A Maiar? Something else? Super hard to say.
In my personal opinion, it doesn't seem to me that either really work too well with the mechanics of how the world is supposed to work, so I can't really figure them out either. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 i thought of them more of exaggerations but i was never sure. Like a vampire-bat or a wolfe the size of a man or somthing like that🤔
you got some personal problems with Boromir :). I like how you roast him in every video though
one thing about LOTR ive alqays wonders is, what happend to Mordor after Saurons defeat?
Where's the full video
So could gandalf see someone wearing the ring?
Wow - that's a cray good question! Assuming my theories are correct here, the answer would have to be YES!
* Spiritual beings can see people wearing the ring to be in the spirit world (in the book called the unseen world or wraith world)
* That's why the Nazgul and Tom Bombadilo see Frodo with the ring on.
* and Gandalf is definitely a spiritual being, so would have to be YES!
So I starting thinking, is there anytime in the books when Bilbo or Frodo wear the ring around Gandalf? Can really only think of one... Bilbo's birthday party. He puts on the ring, disappears, and heads up to Bag End.... and Gandalf is right there waiting. 🙂 So it doesn't say for sure one way or the other if he could see him, but I suspect so, since he knew just where he was going!
What do you think?
What if Morgoth returned the same time as Sauron and he took saurons ring
Aww yeah! I love this question. Of course they cut Morgoth's feet off.... So ol stumpy is gonna have a hard time moving around 😅.
A couple things that are interesting here to me:
* Sauron has developed the skill to keep coming back after being killed. I'm not sure if anyone else has really mastered this. If you think about it, it's really what makes him special.
* I'm not sure if the ring would help any of the Valar or major gods. It's the greatest power of the Maiar.... But I suspect it's not too meaningful to someone on the next level up. That's why Tommy B was uneffected, at least in my personal read of it. I suspect Morgoth would have little use for it.
Those are my read of it. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 true it would have been so cool if morgoth returned the same time as sauron and imagine both theoden and boromir survived and a army of dwarves team up with gondor, rohan and lothlorien against mordor, sauron, nazguls and morgoth
I hear Orc was Elf back than who were tortured by dark magic but do they remember there past life or some try to remember it and possibly return to sanity ?
Yeah, Tolkien was never quite able to figure out where Orcs come from. One theory was from Elves that were captured by Morgoth long ago and corrupted into Orcs... but as you referring to that does not make much sense. When they die, for example, their spirit would meet up with the other Elves in the Halls of Mandos.
Would make more sense if Orcs were men, but Orcs were around way before men were alive, so can't be Men.
My personal opinion.... the are Dwarves!
(short) (quick tempers) (like to make machines) (never see females) (never see kids) (very tribal) (grumpy)
What do you think?
Orcs cannot be dwarves as dwarves are very short and according to the simmalarion orcs are made out of elves and dwarves were made more resistant to evil by Aule@@thegreyhavens167
Because is is powerful. Tom Bombadil makes the One Ring disappear.
why did sauron die after the ring was destroyed if 1. he could live without it in his posession 2. only part of his spirit was inside the ring
Great question, well said! Here is your answer:
* he put "the greater part" of his spirit in the ring... so way more than half.
* he doesn't have access to the power of the ring, but he is still connected to it somehow.
* when the ring was destroyed that part of his spirit was destroyed as well
But here is the kicker: he didn't DIE. Nope. His power lever just became so so incredibly weak, that he can never interact with the physical world again. He is just a powerless ghost, wandering about, unable to get anyone to hear him or listen to him. He is still around here somewhere, floating around as a total loser until the end of the earth.
There you go. What do you think? I think I might make a video on this.. Thanks!!!!
Does the lesser part of Saurons spirit that wasn't destroyed remain in middle earth? or does Saurons entire spirit pass into the spirit realm like Saruman? @@thegreyhavens167
And on a complete side note, I'd love an explanation of Dwarves, as they don't have eternal lives like Elves, but also don't have the gift of men, what happens to Dwarves when they die? and why don't they fear and avoid death like men do? Because I get the Elf-Men dichotomy between eternal and mortal but Dwarves seem like this akward inbetween of 2 theologicly poignant extremes. @@thegreyhavens167
Why didn’t the price guy of (can’t remember) clame the crown of Gondor?
Aw yeah!!!! (ノ^_^)ノ. He is a baller! Prince Imrahil from the knights of Dol Amroth. I love this guy ... shame they couldn't get him in the movie.
My personal read of it, there are three reasons he doesn't take over:
* He is Denethor's brother in law I think. He's family. Might not want to disrespect Denny.
* Dol Amroth is a way cooler place to live. By this time Minas Tirith was mainly just a military outpost.
* As soon as he meets Aragorn he is immediately sold that Aragorn should be king. Aragorn actually asks Imrahil to take command of the city after Denny commits steward-icide and he does rule until Faramir heals and Aragorn comes back from the black gates.
There you go. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 I agree he is a pretty cool dude. Makes you feel like the blood on Numenor is still about. I feel like his forefathers should have had a go at claiming the throne; not that the Stuardship was $#!7 or anything but it does sound like something people would have tried.
Petition for you to make more videos about our G Tom da Bomb!
Added to the list. I like it. Question for you: what kinds of things would you want to hear about with ol Tommy B?
I love you!!!!❤❤❤❤
Thanks! I really appreciate it. Glad you liked the vid! 😊
So the Ring doesnt turn Sauron invisible because hes already invisible? So then why can people see him when you said humans cant see spirits? They would have to see him in battle in order to fight him?
What happened to radagast the Brown after the Hobit
Was the Arkenstone one of the Silmarillions?
Great Thought! But seems pretty unlikely.
First of all, if it were the sons of Feanor and the other Noldor Elves would have went Ham Sandwich on them Dwarves like immediately! 😵
But I think it's more like the Elfstone that Galadriel gave to Aragorn. That was a stone that had sunlight that emanated from within it. I suspect that whatever the Heart of the Mountain was, the light that came from it was not from the Two Trees. That was the defining quality of the Sims, in my personal opinion.
Three Sims, two Elfstones, the Arkenstone.... Tolkien really liked rocks that light up!!! 🤣 What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 great thoughts, thank you. Reading Tolkien chronologically, the Arkenstone always made me think of the Silmaril that Maedhros threw into the fire pit. Love the videos and I’ll think of something else to ask.
Aw yeah, that's a great thought. The Arkenstone was found pretty late I guess... your right! So I guess there is no reason it specifically could not have been Maedhros's stone, right? Pretty cool. THANKS!
Though again, those knife ears would have gone crazy on the dwarves if it was I suspect. But now I have a lot to think about! 🤔🤔🤣🤣
Sauron woth ring may not be invisible but he will be invincible
But how does the ring makes the outfit that frodo wears invincible
My idiot mind understands now
Seriously.... we all know your awesome mind is way more Aragorn than Boromir. 😅
@@thegreyhavens167 you are to kind, my liege
I have a lotr question: Why you hate boromir :(
Hate Boromir? Never, he is my best pal. My account was HACKED!!! Someone else told all those Boromir trolls, not me... 🤣🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167 It must've been one of those spyware rings ive been hearing about... btw love to see how active you are with your comminity
@@laurence2424 NOOOOOO!!!!!! You cant use my own jokes against me! 😵👻
I am a new channel and not sure I know what I'm doing or not... but having a TON of fun chatting with people about Tolkien stuff! None of my friends/family are into LOTR (maybe I need new friends 😅) so really enjoyable to talk with folks. Some people get way to serious about it.... but most are super nice and fun and SUPER COOL to talk to! This is great!!
@eflippo as long as you're having fun man. Personally I try to not argue with people when they get too heated about a work of fiction lol
Why did she leave me?
Is Tom Bombadil also a Maiar?
No, not a lot is known of him but what he is, is fatherless and the only true thing known of him is that he is Tom Bombadil
So the one ring is also like the first horcrux?
Sauron doing a cultural appropriation.
Oh man, never thought of it that way. I don't know a ton of deep Harry Potter lore, but that makes me wonder if Rowling might be a LOTR fan??? 🤔🤔
Slightly unrelated question, if in the books Isildur is a bit of a little bitch, is Narsil still his sword? Or is it someone else’s?
Great question, well said. Here is my opinion:
* others disagree, which is cool, but in my read Isildur is kind of a disappointment.
* Narsil is really his father's sword. King Elendil used it for years.
* To my knowledge, Isildur just uses Narsil the one time to take a finger from the defenseless Sauron and never used it again.
* (in fact, not sure anyone uses it again till Aragorn)
That sword has a long history... maybe I might do a video on that.🤔 Thanks for the great question!
Where did you get that take on Isildur? In the books, Isildur is the only reason there’s still descendants of the white tree of Numenor, as he literally risked his life to steal the last fruit from the white tree In Numenor before Sauron burned it. He didn’t do so unscathed, either, he was seriously wounded, but recovered.
At the downfall of Numenor, he and Anarion’s ships were separated from their father’s, he and Anarion immediately went to work on establishing Gondor in the south in order to thwart Sauron.
Along with his father and brother, they were in charge (along with Gil-Galad and Elrond) of the 7 year seige of Barud-Dur, which means they were inside of Mordor for an extended time.
His brother Anorion was killed (apparently right next to him) by a huge stone hurled by Sauron in the 6th year of that siege. And watched his father and Gil-Galad die a year later while they mortally wounded Sauron. As Sauron’s then current body lay dying, that’s when Isildur took the shards of Narsil and cut off the ring from Sauron’s finger, claiming it as a wereguild for his family. The ring burned him when he took it, and he never fully recovered from the pain.
After taking 2 years to establish rule in Gondor, he headed north, for two reasons: to take up the high kingship in Arnor, and, this is a big and, to seek counsel from Elrond regarding the One Ring and how to get rid of it, as he realized it’s power to corrupt. Of course, he never made it and we all know what happened during that trip.
So, you see, book Isildur was totally different from movie Isildur. Book Isildur didn’t claim the One Ring out of lust for power and greed, he took it as payment for his father and brother’s deaths.
@@john-er6or Well said. Fantastic summary! I love it!
I assume your asking why I read Isildur as kind of a disappointment. I agree with you he is a noble character and did some awesome things. But here would be my summary of Isildur's most important contributions.
* Gil-galad and Elendil realize they are in a unique position to actually defeat and kill Sauron and attack HIM for once.
* They gather tens of thousands of men who spend about 5 years of their life training and working towards this goal.
* They spend 7 years or so fighting in and around Mordor
* Countless men and elves die in the process. Their sacrifice is so great, none of Middle Earth will ever truly recover from it.
* Isildur himself also loses his brother and father.
* All of this incredible sacrifice for one goal... defeat and kill Sauron once and for all.
In the end, all that sacrifice arguably wasted when one man, Isildur, chose to allow Sauron to survive. While he had great successes in life, that one failure outshines them all... dramatically... in my personal opinion. He is a tragic character that could not live up to the promise of his father, and the promise of Numenor, and the promise of Elves and Men united.
In the end, he uses the ring to try and escape and leaves his own sons to die. He is a father that abandoned his sons, and a son that wasted the sacrifice of his father. He is ultimately a disappointment in my opinion.
What do you think? Am I crazy? One of the things I LOVE about Tolkien is how everyone can have a different take... and they are all awesome!
@@thegreyhavens167 From what I read, which you can call my take, when he took the ring as a wereguild, he thought Sauron was vanquished. During the next 2 years, I believe he came to the realization that it was not so. So, leaving the rule of Gondor to his nephew (Anarion’s oldest? son) he undertook the journey north via the shortest way possible in order to get to Elrond’s halls before the full onset of winter. There, as I stated above, he intended to ask Elrond’s counsel regarding the Ring. We’ll never know what would have happened if he had made it, as the whole party was waylaid by orcs who vastly outnumbered his troops. They fought valiantly down to a very few, until all that remained were in dire straits. The outlook was grim, and his oldest son, who knew his father’s purpose, turned to his father and begged him to put on the ring and escape so that he could get to Elrond and figure out what to do. At this point, one of Isildur’s other sons had already perished in this battle. (Tolkien even states that the orcs were probably being driven by the One Ring - it was always trying to get back to its Master - although the orcs had no knowledge of this power which was driving them.) Isildur realizes that his son is right, and the Ring must not fall into the wrong hands, so he gives the Ring of Barahir and the shards of Narsil (the heirlooms of his house that were theirs from the First Age) to his squire and commands him to take a different path with these heirlooms and to take them to Elrond. (Spoiler alert, the squire makes it.) So, as Tolkien wrote, he put the One Ring on his finger with a cry of anguish, both for the knowledge that his eldest son will surely die here (he does) and from the pain that the Ring has always given him since he took it from Sauron’s hand. Grieving, he went to the river Anduin and crossed it. Emerging on the other side, he realized that the Ring had slipped from his finger during his swim across. Immediately he felt two things: the first was a sense of loss of the Ring, followed by instant relief that he was rid of his pain of it, and felt a rush of joy that he was rid of it and that the Anduin had taken it, and a great evil had been averted. Side note, at this point, Isildur is still wearing the Elendilmir, an Elven jewel which is also an heirloom of his house, upon his brow. This jewel revealed him in the moonlight, and he was immediately pierced with many orc arrows and his body and the jewel also sunk beneath the Anduin. Over 3000 years later, in the beginning of the Fourth Age, Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli journeyed to visit and reestablish the north kingdom, they stop at Orthanc, and Aragorn receives the keys from Treebeard, as Orthanc rightfully belongs to him. He and Gimli go inside to take a look around, and due to the sharp eyes of Gimli, they discover a secret hidden chamber inside Orthanc, and what do they find? The bones of a long dead man, and the Elendilmir itself. They then realize that Saruman, in his search for the Ring, had found Isildur’s remains, but not the Ring, which had been appropriated by Gollum at this point. It was another of Saruman’s treacheries against Middle Earth, as he had told no one that he had found Isildur’s remains (probably over 2000 years after Isildur’s death.)
So, my take? Isildur was a valiant man with the best intentions, he was not greedy or a coward. He put on the ring at the very last in order to get it to Elrond, not out of cowardice, but to try and get the best counsel available for the future of Middle Earth. During the two years that he possessed the Ring, he had already found that he did not have the power to master the One Ring, he regretted ever taking it, and wanted to find out how to destroy it. So, in summary, I DO think Isildur was a hero, and not the man from the movies. I thought as you do for a very long time, until I read some of Tolkien’s later writings on the subject, which were edited and released by J.R.R.T’s son Christopher in more recent times.
@@john-er6or Another awesome comment. Thx! You definitely know your stuff!! And I view the details of the that story the same way you do. We are 99% on the same page. :) I just have a different feeling on Isildur.
You said "Isildur was a valiant man with the best intentions, he was not greedy or a coward." I totally agree with that. I definitely don't see him as a bad guy. I see him more like Boromir. Boromir is awesome! He is brave, noble, courageous, fights for a good cause... but in the end fails. Not because he is a bad person (just the opposite, he was a hero!) but he just came up against a task that was stronger than he could take.
I will give you two things to consider:
1) When he took the ring, both Elrond and Cirdan were there... urging him to destroy it. They both knew all about the ring, with Cirdan even experiencing Sauron directly when he first put on the master ring. They knew it had Sauron's spirit in it and told him to destroy it. There is even a connotation that they maybe had an argument about it. So in my reading, Isildur knew what he was doing, but couldn't resist it. (or did it out of pride, etc) Either way, he failed to measure up to the task and his father's death was somewhat in vain because of it.
2) I totally get his son telling him to leave and that he was upset about it.... but as a dad myself.... no excuse. From my perspective, a parent left their child. I cannot get over that hurdle. Can you imagine Theoden leaving Eowyn to die, for example, on the battle field if things had gone differently. No way! Give the ring to Elendur and let him try to escape. I dunno, but from my mind he made a disappointing and non-noble decision.
In the end, his sons deaths were of his own making... he took the ring... and he and the people around him suffered for his lack of judgement. Elrond and Cirdan tried to get him to do the right thing, but he refused. In most of his life he was awesome, but in the critical moments that ultimately defined him, he came up short.
Well, that's my read. I totally respect your read of it too. Just have a slightly different outlook on it. 😅
Imho I better like Celebrimbor design from Shadow of Mordor as well as Annatar, seeing those terrible casts from Amazon RIngs of Power feels cringy...(
I definitely respect your opinion on Celebrimbor. Some people love RoP and some people hate it.
But I gotta say, my Annatar is 10000000000 times better!!! That's Sauron wearing a Legolas mask!!!! I mean, just listen to how awesome that sentence is.... "SAURON WEARING A LEGOLAS MASK" 🤣🤣🤣. Im lmao just thinking about it🤣🤣🤣.
the answer is here 5:15 thank me later
Not gonna lie I know we have shadow of war and all that but a lord of the rings game that is similar to Elden ring play style would actually be kinda of bad ass
Yes Yes Yes..... 100% agree. That's a perfect idea. Can you imagine a truly open world epic game where you explore different parts of Middle Earth such as that! If you had to use actual characters, either Beren or Aragorn's life story would fit pretty nicely in there, as they both explored lot of places. Earendil would be the best to me though.... EPIC!!!!
Honestly, ER was one of the most impactful, visceral gaming experiences I have had in a while.
@@thegreyhavens167 ya playing as Aragorn or Beren would be cool but I was thinking more on the lines of designing your own character like a dwarf, elf, wizard, human, or even an orc, but I guess if you would want more of a story that would fit to the actual canon story of lord of the rings then your idea of being able to play as Aragorn in an open world LOTR / Elden ring style game would be cool like one of the missions you could meet up with Gandalf and Gandalf has you go around middle earth finding clues and tracking gollum.
Content Creators don't know how to put anything into a single sentence. It's so time consuming... You didn't answer the question. Sauron doesn't become invisible, cos he is between realms and creating a physical form; Whereas others loose their physical form going between realms wearing the ring.
Why did she leave me?
Look man, I asked for "Tolkien" questions... but here is my best guess:
* she was totally intimated by your awesomeness... your just too epic! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯