Your not showing a fair comparison. As Donald D, mentioned, HD is restricted by EPA etc. Upgrades with cam, exhaust, intake & tuner will greatly improve the #'s
Upgrade with what? More Screaming Eagle, or aftermarket? I think you missed what I was saying. The video is about after market vs Screaming Eagle. Not Screaming Eagle with after market. Screaming Eagle 131 or 128 parts exclusively vs aftermarket. You're not the first to say this, so i figured maybe I wasn't clear on the video about what I was saying. You can absolutely get big numbers by adding aftermarket products to your Screaming Eagle 131, but without the aftermarket products the Screaming Eagle 131 and 128 doesn't give you the performance that you can make from an aftermarket build. And, if you use aftermarket products like tuners or etc then you should have just went aftermarket in the first place, because now most likely you've voided your powertrain warranty. Yes, SE has certain guidelines that they have to adhere to, that is true. Yes, Im certain they can get more power out of the 131 if the had free reign to create without limits. Take a look at the King of the Baggers Vance and Hines Bike it was a 131 and it was around 170 HP 160TQ. Again you can get big numbers from the 131 SE but with the help of aftermarket, not SE warranty compliance parts alone. That's what the whole video was about Screaming Eagle 131 Kit vs Aftermarket 124. Thanks for the comment.
@@TravelingTall Totally agree... " Take a look at the King of the Baggers Vance and Hines Bike it was a 131 and it was around 170 HP 160TQ. Again you can get big numbers from the 131 SE but with the help of aftermarket, not SE warranty compliance parts alone..." I guess that's my point as bigger #'s from SE & aftermarkets are attainable. Anyway, Really enjoy your videos!
Because I’m wanting to do a fullyTÜV Compliant upgrade everything has to either be OEM or fully tested which is rare if the company isn’t based in Europe. This is exactly the kind of information that interests me.
@@TravelingTall idk maybe you're still not clear enough but yes aftermarket will give you higher numbers, but the reason is because the Harley Screaming Eagle parts still have to meet EPA regulations where aftermarket doesn't have to. It's like the Dodge Cummings engine, back in the days of the 5.9 liter it made good power and torque but then the EPA regulations got stricter, so they changed the engine to a 6.7 liter but the numbers where almost the same and the reason they had to go bigger displacement because the emissions was choking it down so to keep the same power the motor had to get bigger. If you take that 6.7 liter and put "off road" aftermarket parts get rid of the DPF filter and use a tuner that says for off road use only then the numbers are substantially higher. It's kinda the same concept with Harley's 131, because the emissions choke it down the displacement has to be bigger but if you use stuff not regulated by EPA you get a lot more power but that stuff will say for off road use only on it.
@@dennywinchel2348 the reason the racers are getting those numbers is also because they don't have to meet emissions when they are able to use off road products, so they are not limited. Depending on the state you live in you may be able to get away with more than someone in a place like California where the use the sniffer to test emissions
That 131 is comparably low on numbers because of the EPA compliant tuner H-D has forced us to use. A more aggressive cam and a power vision tuner will significantly increase both HP and TQ
I think Zippers is one of the best performance shops around. They did my 110 SE Roadglide a year ago and totally happy with it. It had a lot of engine problems that the dealer could not figure out. I ain't scared of no 131. Bring it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reliability and warranty so the 131 numbers are different warranty gives game for me , and how much was the cost for the Zippers upgrades and how many places are there to go in case of problems , in the end it’s about more power and reliability hats off to the MOCO engineers making the 128 & 131 available for a factory engine upgrade these probably will be on production bikes in the future ride safe in eastern Tennessee
I understand, the warranty that comes with the Screaming Eagle can be comforting and it is great that the MoCo is offering a kit like this. However the former 117 stage 4 kit has earned a reputation of not being very reliable. Search the forums, they will tell you. Its good to be covered by warranty, but its better to be built for reliability. If you can avoid the trouble by installing quality parts, i'd rather spend my time riding than waiting for repairs. Thanks for the comment talking rock, I will be making another video going over the complete parts list and cost.
As an old dirt track go karter, engine builder. Bigger is not always better, especally in head porting. smaller runners produce higher volosity in the port. You have a well built well thought out motor.
Thanks for the video... I am going with the 107 128 Stage IV kit. It has been on backorder for a month and a half. I basically have the same bike as you do. I bought 3 year extended warranty my guys at my H-D dealership tells me that if anything ever goes wrong with my bike they would fix it under warranty. Just like you I want to be able to hop on my bike and go to California and not be worried about breaking down. Once I get mine done I will come back with some numbers...
Good video and information. I had the 114 stage IV installed in my bike when I bought it new two years ago. What I didn’t realize then was that the stage IV was meant for high RPM use and the extra power doesn’t come in until you are higher in the power band. It’s an 800lb bike and I ride two up a lot. My wife and I don’t ride hard and fast like we did twenty years ago. Warranty will be up in two weeks, not extending it. Will probably do a new tuner thus month, possibly a zippers cam next winter. Ride safe.
Ricky Hawkins, sounds like your service dept sold you on the horsepower cam. Change to a torque cam. The revs will be lower for useable power. Screamin Eagle torque cam or Red Shift 468 cam. Your dealership's service dept should have explained that to you.
This is exactly what has me always coming back to you Tall, when you said it's totally upto you as the owner what to do with your bike. Your the man Tall. 😎😎😎
The real issue is that Harley is still using a high flow cat in the head pipe and using their tuner which only tunes within EPA guidelines. Harley techs will tell you if you want real power out of their Stage kits use an aftermarket exhaust and aftermarket tuner. The downside is your warranty will immediately be voided if you change the head pipe or use a tuner other than Scream’n Eagle (thank you EPA). I want to see the numbers for the 131 kit with a D&D Billet Cat exhaust and aftermarket tuner. You also need factor in the type of cam as it too can majorly influence power and torque numbers.
You got it !!! That headpipe in their kit still has a cat. And their restricted tuner. Also correct on HD cams usually lacking compared to aftermarket.
What if you live in Australia and buy a Harley brand new from a dealer with a stage 1 kit installed by the dealer that includes a Maximus tuner, V&H Big Radius and a screamin eagle heavy breather? Am I buying a brand new bike with no warranty?
Making the bike your own means upgrading to suit your needs. You made an excellent choice because of the style of riding you do and what performance you want out of your bike. Great choice.
Now all Zipper’s Performance has to do is design a performance upgrade for the 131 because Harley would never allow their bikes to perform anywhere near their full potential. Great video!!!
I work at HD dealership in the service dept. We just dyno'd a 2018 CVO Roadglide with a 131, d&d 2-1, and a power vision. It ran 151ft lbs, and about 145hp. That would more towards the higher end of the spectrum. Unless you run both of HD's Screaming Eagle tuners they will most likely void your warranty if it ever gets plugged into the Digital Tech.
I'm 4 months away from the end of my warranty,I'm gonna run 128 but with wood or red shift cam,FM pipe,cant believe been eyeing that 124 kit for over a year,good numbers man
It's all in the TUNER & CAM!!! Take the 131 SE kit and put an aftermarket cam and tuner and watch out. Bigger valves, ports, cam profiles and a tuner that allows more timing and fuel and you will have great power increases. Basic Hot rodding is all it is. Harley has to be EPA compliant and the after market is more than likely selling kits that are " for offroad or competition use only" . Eventually the EPA will do the smack down on Zippers and many of the other companies just like they have, to Harley and Vance and Hines already!!
You can add any stage kit work done after the first 60 day to the extended warranty but it all has to be Harley parts and done by Harley techs at a Harley dealership. Just inquire with the finance people at the dealership for more details.
Push rod motors are the way to go! Absolute tune-able beasts and why we love them. Nice work Tall. Just a matter of time to set all this in motion for the aftermarket. Life’s short, just buy the bike.
Appreciate your video - thanks! I currently have a Screamin' Eagle 117 twin cam. It has plenty of power, but I have a sickness - if I know more power is available, I want it. Now that my bike is no longer in warranty, I'm willing to look after market. Until now, I've never heard of Zipper's Performance - and given your happiness with them, I'll look into them. Take care!
I have a 2011 RKC that i just recently upgraded my 107 with the SE Stage 5 Tire Shredder Kit with SE 585 Cams, Trask Performance High Flow Air Cleaner, Dynojet Powervision tuner, and D&D Fat Cats 2 in 1 full exhaust system with ghost pipe and after 2 dyno's my numbers came back at 124 HP and 131 TQ. I'm very satisfied with my setup and the reliability to ride cross country and daily rider!
I have a bone stock Road Glide 107 and I'm lovin it. Although if a rebuild or tear down is in the future I would most certainly go with the 124. Awesome bike!
I've seen a few 131 kits that have melted down due to not the best parts or piss poor installation from HD dealers. From what I've seen online, Zippers does impeccable work, so personally I'd much rather have the zippers kit.
Zippers does great work and research on their products, only worry is drivetrain handling more torgue, hd denied my trans warranty, proving aftermarket is best solutions! My thx to tall and zippers, enjoying our 468/thundermax matched w baker dds trans on a 2017/107/ultra. We average about 37 mpg on trips, cooler =longevity, torgue=fun! Got it w zippers!
It’s most likely more in the tuner than anything. The 131 is restricted with the screaming eagle tuner. The 124 is with the aftermarket tuner. It would be interesting to see what the 131 would do with an aftermarket tuner. It would also be interesting to see what a stock M8 would do with an aftermarket tune.
That 131 has really thin spigot walls going into the top of case and the cylinder walls are gonna flex...the 124 is much thicker and will stay sealed when it revs=more power and dependability
I am still stuck on 10000 miles and having to replace guides and working on the valve train at all on that few of miles I just hope those pressed togather flywheels stay true my stock 06 twin cam sure didn't I sold it and went back to shovel other than having to keep a few bolts tight no problem
Yah that's kinda scary. My Duc DS1000 is no fire breathing enterprise but she moves out quite well especially in the twisties.... but no huge issues and closing in on 30K miles.
After watching the build series as with all good performance they tightened the tolerance and did not go too radical. Tuned the new ecu to match the mods and factory design, It’s about precision performance. Nice build. I had the privilege of watching one of the big four factory race tuners chief engineer tear down and rebuild factory GP bikes back in the early 90’s.
I had Zippers do my heads for my Shovelhead, Red Shift 550 cam, S&S G carb with thunder jet , dual plugs and it has been a great runner, Zippers does great things.
"About 3 months after I bought (product), (manufacturer) came out with something bigger and better". Story of my life. Also, I I have the ability to send companies into receivership just by deciding I like their products and going all in with them.
I have asked before and will ask again, "What is your miles per gallon?" I have a 107 ci, Street Glide, and only did a torque cam. I went from 50 mpg to 46 mpg.
Great video Tall once again! The 131ci motor just cam out so just give it a little time and all the aftermarket kits will come out for the 131 and it will be beast. If you put a Thundermax tuner and an aftermarket exhaust this Stage IV motor will put out way more power. Any setup that is not EPA compliant will always produce more power and torque. No comparison!
Something i feel is worth mentioning if it wasn’t already. Tall’s 124 kit has 130ft/tq and higher at the rear wheel from around 2600-5250rpm. That’s pretty amazing 👍
The HD 131 kit includes a EPA legal tuner and tune.... therefore less HP and torque numbers.....I suspect your 124 motor is not EPA legal....( more power to ya)👍. also need to know what compression ratio of each motor and what cam is used.... cubic inches is only one small part of the equation.
Is that with se tuner warranty complaint parts or aftermarket tuner or headpipe I'm debating on goin warranty complaint or aftermarket on my 18 road glide I want to get good power curves and 130/140 so I am very interested to know what's on your bike
I like both the SE and Zipper performance upgrades. The numbers are always subjective. Upgrades always have a contingency. Do the research, ride a buddies bike, as questions. Find the performance arch that works for your riding style. You may not need all that HP because you don’t goose it to 5500rpms or don’t cruise at 100mph. You might like a torque monster that gets you to your performance band quicker and cruising at 88mph. Reliability is the key. Unless you can afford a daily and play toy that is. Either way, keep it rollin guys.
Love Harleys and owned one for 11yrs. I came to the point that it didn’t make sense to spend 5 or 6 thousand dollars on mods when I could buy a used 18 year old Yamaha with 135 hp at the wheel that weighs less than 500 lbs for 2700 dollars and keep my Electra Glide for long trips.
Great video. Many people really dont understand that the screaming eagle stuff by Harley is hobbled by the EPA. My mechanic laughs when I we discuss 110 kits vs the new M8's because the 110 kits absolutely blow away the M8's in performance.
IMHO, a really important difference is in the torque and power curve delivery points--your 124 kit comes on much earlier and stays high through the "street" zone, whereas the HD kit is a higher RPM kit, more in the "racer-boy" zone. For me, and I would guess a large portion of us, the Zipper 124 kit delivers more where it is used around town (1500-2500 rpm) AND for passing etc on the highway (3000-3500 rpm). You made the better choice. The other big difference, of course, is that the HD kit IS EPA certified and warrantied when bought and installed in time by a dealer (incl'g Calif as I recall if you use their mufflers which relocate the catcons).
The Zippers kit is cheaper but, there is a few more things that I needed that I would suggest to you. The Screaming Eagle kit suggest a few more things needed as well. I will make another video showing you what installed and the cost soon. Thanks for watching.
Ok Tall, I liked the comparison you did here. I have a '18 FLHX and I haven't been completely sold on the 128/131 kits and now that they just introduced a 119/122. I need to see the numbers on the 119 kit to see where my gains would be over my 107 which has a H-D Stage 1(full SE exhaust/wedge hi-flo air cleaner/ProStreet tuner) and I am averaging 45 miles (highway) a gallon before the fuel light comes on. I have seen a few people ask but I haven't seen your reply about your gas mileage on the 124. I work at a H-D dealership and I know the restrictions that Harley has to work under in regards to EPA but like you stated you went for the best bang for your money and I am thinking the same. Once again, what is your gas mileage with the 124 since this is your everyday rider.
I think the results of this comparison would be wildly different if the SE 131 had the same RedShift 472 or maybe the 468 cam in it, along with an upgraded Cam plate and oil pump. The new SE 131 package uses the same SE 515 cam which comes on the stage IV kits... which is why I switched to the RedShift 468 on my 117 Fatboy.
Chris Barr - I stand corrected... Good point. However, there’s still no magic that would allow “Tall’s” 124 to dramatically outperform a 131 beyond the usual suspects of a more aggressive cam, upgraded air intake/exhaust, upgraded injectors or the tune itself. My point is... all else being equal, the 131 should slightly outperform. In his comparison, all else ISN’T equal. If that were the case, I’d brag about my 117 being able to outperform the new 131. But I won’t bc I have several upgrades that dictate that I should be making more hp and tq.
Great video. Great review. I'm doing a 131 build at a dealership with mostly aftermarket parts and covered by a seperate warranty given by dealer. I'll send details soon.
after watching your videos i decided to do just the cam (468) and the d&d 2into1. with a tuner (not harley). i had the work done at my local dealership and they had it dyno tuned. it runs a lot better, but not where i thought it would be. only making 103hp and 113ft lbs at 2700. still happy with it though. thanks for sharing.
I turned my 107 into a 128. Got 114 inch flywheels and sent them to dark horse then got 128 S&S jugs and pistons and sent my heads to ward performance. I made 144tq and 150hp
The SE 131ci hardly compares to anyones aftermarket stage 2 let alone any aftermarket stage 3 or 4. Other aftermarket companies have made 131ci or bigger for years. Its nothing new..they are just more for full on drag bikes.. its just now SE has a very low hp one
You say that but it has the same power as the challenger. Can you explain that? I can bet you thought that the challenger was the best thing Indian ever made. THE HATE IS REAL!!
duane howard the new challenger dynos on average around 115 torque and 105 HP. My new road glide with a woods cam made 119 TQ and 109 HP. If Harley were to swap the cam out and tune it differently, the bikes would make the same numbers. Challengers numbers aren’t that impressive once you see that it is 11:0 compression, liquid cooled, and basically the same displacement as the 107 M8.
Those numbers from screaming eagle are the baseline setup running the se tuner. They won’t dial the bike up due to warranty issues. Put a different tuner on and tweak that setup and guys are hitting 140’s hp/torque
Thanks for the video. As someone who is considering this stuff right now, I think you're giving good info and good advice. However, as some others have noted, you're comparing a maxed-out 124 build with a crippled 131 build. The numbers you see for the H-D 131 have stock exhaust headers with cat converters and EPA-friendly tunes. If someone did with those kits what Zipper did with your kit, optimize the cam, exhaust and tune, no telling what the numbers could be. But it's really difficult to find anybody who's done that, because the people buying 131 right now tend to want to maintain their warranties. It may take a year or more before we start seeing the full power of the 131 show up in RUclips videos.
Not to stick up for Harley (. I have zippers heads on my 103 ) but it’s the tuner that sets your 124 above that 131. Since H-D got sued by the EPA and are not allowed to sell the race tuner only street tuner those will be the results. Now if someone were to put a powervision on the 131 And a experienced tuner the 131 would put out much better numbers I’m sure
What kind of mileage do you get with your bike I travel a lot I do a lot of miles I'm really curious what kind of mileage you get with your bike without honor if you have any information about the 131 mileage that kids I would appreciate it
I haven't been easy on the throttle since the install, but I will be making a 1600 mile trip coming up soon. I can tell you what I'm getting now is about 215 out of my 6 gallon tank. Thats mainly running around town with the occasional blast off :)
Obviously you have my attention because a ride a 2017 Street Glide Special in Superior Blue with the 107! I’ve bought it one year ago this week with 6,000 miles on it and it currently has 15,000 on it( and it spent 1 month in the shop for the compensator going out with 10,000 miles on it)! I also had to take some time off from riding due to a back surgery! I’m interested in that 124 but not sure if I’d spend that much money on that upgrade. As always, thank you for your content and keep up the good work! Ride safe!
The simple fact that Zippers found and fixed the 107’s. Factory flaws and issues to ensure reliability is the biggest advantage here. HD dealership mechanics would have past right over those issues “ cause if aint their problem”. And you’d never known it. Performance company like Zippers dont have millions in budget for marketing. Their reputation and quality of work keeps customers coming back. Now, which one would i chose for my 25k harley??? Its a no brainer! Zippers or any other quality shop over HD mass production parts.
I have a 2020 Ultra Limited and I had put 5000 miles on my bike when I had the 131” kit put on mine here by Bert’s Barracuda Harley-Davidson here in Pinellas Park, FL. I rode it for a few weeks before taking it to Bert’s Black Widow Harley-Davidson in Port Charlotte, FL for a Dyno. I by the way left it stock-ish by using the Harley-Davidson tunes for the Big Bore Kit, anyway It peaked at 4400 RPM as that is where it hit 110 MPH. At 110 MPH it was putting out 121.5 HP and 140 ft lbs torque. A couple weeks later it started to act up, I limped it home in the middle of the night beach ride, and didn’t want to risk any further damage if it was damaging it. Next day I rode it over to the shop and it was riding fine, I was told it may have been an electrical issue and to keep riding it. I parked it for a week, then on July 1st was casually riding to work (70MPH) and it shut down on me. I got it to the shop next day and the rear cylinder had seized up causing damage to the rear jug & piston. It is still at Bert’s Barracuda Harley-Davidson waiting on Harley to send my parts... BTW, I only had 700 miles on the 131” when it seized up and it was 1/4 qt low on oil... I am hoping to get back on her again soon, the sad part is, that I never got to open it up and see what she could do! The ones that did were the Mechanic that installed the kit, the General Manager, & the Dyno Operator... I will advise this, IF you are thinking of getting the 131” kit, even with the Harley cooling fan behind the back jug and the radiator it still puts off a tremendous amount of Heat, it’s a lot hotter than that of the 114”!!!...
next time sell your engine on ebay, and buy a jims 120 motor or a ultima 127 for 4000$ and be done with it brute power and reliable burn tires all day long reliable.
Whatever Harley builds MUST meet EPA standards and also carry a warranty!! So the power numbers are definitely gonna be lower than aftermarket. Aftermarket does not have to use catalytic converters and meet EPA standards. Just like Tall stated. It is totally up to you the owner and your budget. Ride safe and enjoy!!
Screaming eagle kit breaths thru the cats and it’s tuner is limited. That’s why the 131 isn’t at its full potential. Good and smart choice going with zippers 124!
I’m not sure when but I definitely want this kit on my lowrider 107. And prob just do one of the redshift cams like you did. Zippers knows what’s up👌. Do you know if zippers has a place they know can do quality work in California? Or do I have to make a trip to Maryland
I went with a trask turbo kit on my stock 107....I wish I upgraded the motor with the turbo....I like zippers as I have one of their cams in my bike...good video and content
The only way to get real result of the two would be to test them at a drag strip. You can alter hp n tq on the dyno if you know what your doing to get high numbers
My Evo Altima with straight pipes has 145 horsepower to back tire and 145 torque so Harley better do something as motors beat them so does mine pay that much and have to add more ha
As motors killing them to not impress rode Harleys my whole life I am 61 wouldn't buy one of what I read and seen guy I seen riding one it moved in 2nd gear scared him let a real biker who it
I highly recommend the kits made by Danny (aka Motor Witch) Leading Edge V-Twin. 129, 131, 151, and 159CI kits available and are truly unique and powerful
Question, can someone swap a 131 cam with the 100hp cam that S&S makes? I don’t think the 590 is a good cam for the 131, I believe it can produce over 200 WHP with an S&S if that’s possible
I'd go with the aftermarket Zippers 124 Sleeper upgrade any day. I have a bunch of other things that I want to do to my 2017 Street Glide Special first though...
Your not showing a fair comparison. As Donald D, mentioned, HD is restricted by EPA etc. Upgrades with cam, exhaust, intake & tuner will greatly improve the #'s
Upgrade with what? More Screaming Eagle, or aftermarket? I think you missed what I was saying. The video is about after market vs Screaming Eagle. Not Screaming Eagle with after market. Screaming Eagle 131 or 128 parts exclusively vs aftermarket. You're not the first to say this, so i figured maybe I wasn't clear on the video about what I was saying. You can absolutely get big numbers by adding aftermarket products to your Screaming Eagle 131, but without the aftermarket products the Screaming Eagle 131 and 128 doesn't give you the performance that you can make from an aftermarket build. And, if you use aftermarket products like tuners or etc then you should have just went aftermarket in the first place, because now most likely you've voided your powertrain warranty. Yes, SE has certain guidelines that they have to adhere to, that is true. Yes, Im certain they can get more power out of the 131 if the had free reign to create without limits.
Take a look at the King of the Baggers Vance and Hines Bike it was a 131 and it was around 170 HP 160TQ. Again you can get big numbers from the 131 SE but with the help of aftermarket, not SE warranty compliance parts alone. That's what the whole video was about Screaming Eagle 131 Kit vs Aftermarket 124. Thanks for the comment.
@@TravelingTall Totally agree... " Take a look at the King of the Baggers Vance and Hines Bike it was a 131 and it was around 170 HP 160TQ. Again you can get big numbers from the 131 SE but with the help of aftermarket, not SE warranty compliance parts alone..." I guess that's my point as bigger #'s from SE & aftermarkets are attainable. Anyway, Really enjoy your videos!
Because I’m wanting to do a fullyTÜV Compliant upgrade everything has to either be OEM or fully tested which is rare if the company isn’t based in Europe. This is exactly the kind of information that interests me.
@@TravelingTall idk maybe you're still not clear enough but yes aftermarket will give you higher numbers, but the reason is because the Harley Screaming Eagle parts still have to meet EPA regulations where aftermarket doesn't have to. It's like the Dodge Cummings engine, back in the days of the 5.9 liter it made good power and torque but then the EPA regulations got stricter, so they changed the engine to a 6.7 liter but the numbers where almost the same and the reason they had to go bigger displacement because the emissions was choking it down so to keep the same power the motor had to get bigger. If you take that 6.7 liter and put "off road" aftermarket parts get rid of the DPF filter and use a tuner that says for off road use only then the numbers are substantially higher. It's kinda the same concept with Harley's 131, because the emissions choke it down the displacement has to be bigger but if you use stuff not regulated by EPA you get a lot more power but that stuff will say for off road use only on it.
@@dennywinchel2348 the reason the racers are getting those numbers is also because they don't have to meet emissions when they are able to use off road products, so they are not limited. Depending on the state you live in you may be able to get away with more than someone in a place like California where the use the sniffer to test emissions
I installed a S&S 124 power package on my 107. Stock heads, throttle body & 475G cam. Very similar #'s to what you made. No regrets man...
That 131 is comparably low on numbers because of the EPA compliant tuner H-D has forced us to use. A more aggressive cam and a power vision tuner will significantly increase both HP and TQ
This! No one would use a SE cam and the Pro Street Tuner.
For this kind of $ I would want the most HP/TQ
exactly and why the zippers is better.
So thats why I'm stuck with 154 torque and 123 hp. I've seen 131s have 160ish torque and 150ish hp
I think Zippers is one of the best performance shops around. They did my 110 SE Roadglide a year ago and totally happy with it. It had a lot of engine problems that the dealer could not figure out. I ain't scared of no 131. Bring it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had my 103 built to a 110, I run around all the 107, 114, 117’s. I want to find someone with that 131 SE.
Reliability and warranty so the 131 numbers are different warranty gives game for me , and how much was the cost for the Zippers upgrades and how many places are there to go in case of problems , in the end it’s about more power and reliability hats off to the MOCO engineers making the 128 & 131 available for a factory engine upgrade these probably will be on production bikes in the future ride safe in eastern Tennessee
I understand, the warranty that comes with the Screaming Eagle can be comforting and it is great that the MoCo is offering a kit like this. However the former 117 stage 4 kit has earned a reputation of not being very reliable. Search the forums, they will tell you. Its good to be covered by warranty, but its better to be built for reliability. If you can avoid the trouble by installing quality parts, i'd rather spend my time riding than waiting for repairs.
Thanks for the comment talking rock, I will be making another video going over the complete parts list and cost.
SE 131 kit and creat engine is a waste of money. And people don't realize you're restricted by Harley-Davidson!!!
As an old dirt track go karter, engine builder. Bigger is not always better, especally in head porting. smaller runners produce higher volosity in the port. You have a well built well thought out motor.
Absolutely correct. Your bike, your money. Make it your own.
Thanks for the video... I am going with the 107 128 Stage IV kit. It has been on backorder for a month and a half. I basically have the same bike as you do. I bought 3 year extended warranty my guys at my H-D dealership tells me that if anything ever goes wrong with my bike they would fix it under warranty. Just like you I want to be able to hop on my bike and go to California and not be worried about breaking down.
Once I get mine done I will come back with some numbers...
Good video and information. I had the 114 stage IV installed in my bike when I bought it new two years ago. What I didn’t realize then was that the stage IV was meant for high RPM use and the extra power doesn’t come in until you are higher in the power band. It’s an 800lb bike and I ride two up a lot. My wife and I don’t ride hard and fast like we did twenty years ago.
Warranty will be up in two weeks, not extending it. Will probably do a new tuner thus month, possibly a zippers cam next winter.
Ride safe.
Ricky Hawkins, sounds like your service dept sold you on the horsepower cam. Change to a torque cam. The revs will be lower for useable power. Screamin Eagle torque cam or Red Shift 468 cam. Your dealership's service dept should have explained that to you.
This is exactly what has me always coming back to you Tall, when you said it's totally upto you as the owner what to do with your bike. Your the man Tall. 😎😎😎
The real issue is that Harley is still using a high flow cat in the head pipe and using their tuner which only tunes within EPA guidelines. Harley techs will tell you if you want real power out of their Stage kits use an aftermarket exhaust and aftermarket tuner. The downside is your warranty will immediately be voided if you change the head pipe or use a tuner other than Scream’n Eagle (thank you EPA). I want to see the numbers for the 131 kit with a D&D Billet Cat exhaust and aftermarket tuner. You also need factor in the type of cam as it too can majorly influence power and torque numbers.
You got it !!!
That headpipe in their kit still has a cat.
And their restricted tuner.
Also correct on HD cams usually lacking compared to aftermarket.
Do you know if you switch out the head pipe but use a se tuner it will void the warranty as well?
I would like to see someone do a dyno run with a complete aftermarket exhaust on the 131”
@@bobhog3969 They technically could void the warranty because it's illegal to remove the cat from the bike.
What if you live in Australia and buy a Harley brand new from a dealer with a stage 1 kit installed by the dealer that includes a Maximus tuner, V&H Big Radius and a screamin eagle heavy breather? Am I buying a brand new bike with no warranty?
T-Man performance's 128" makes more power then this 131". He goes into the bottom end and fixes all the problems, his work is top notch
Yes Sir
WOW that's crazy you get that kind of HP. I will definitely be going that route! very nice vid with clear comparison.
Making the bike your own means upgrading to suit your needs. You made an excellent choice because of the style of riding you do and what performance you want out of your bike. Great choice.
Now all Zipper’s Performance has to do is design a performance upgrade for the 131 because Harley would never allow their bikes to perform anywhere near their full potential. Great video!!!
A 148 sleeper kit maybe? That would be awesome
Warranty cost keeps the numbers down but not performance IMO
Well harley is restricted by the EPA so they will never reach their full potential.
Thanks for the comment Frederick
Alpha Performance Engines offer a 143 ci..
I work at HD dealership in the service dept. We just dyno'd a 2018 CVO Roadglide with a 131, d&d 2-1, and a power vision. It ran 151ft lbs, and about 145hp. That would more towards the higher end of the spectrum. Unless you run both of HD's Screaming Eagle tuners they will most likely void your warranty if it ever gets plugged into the Digital Tech.
I'm 4 months away from the end of my warranty,I'm gonna run 128 but with wood or red shift cam,FM pipe,cant believe been eyeing that 124 kit for over a year,good numbers man
I wonder what power the 131kit would make with an aftermarket cam and tmax tuner
All the aftermarket vendors will start to make kits and cams for the 131 motor soon!! 140+ sleeper kit?? :)
It should be impressive with another tuner not EPA oriented
The 131 barrels are too thin for the high cylinder pressures of an aftermarket cam and tune. This is why S&S and others have stuck with 128CID.
I appreciate your honesty and also that you do not play down the HD BB kit!
It's all in the TUNER & CAM!!! Take the 131 SE kit and put an aftermarket cam and tuner and watch out. Bigger valves, ports, cam profiles and a tuner that allows more timing and fuel and you will have great power increases. Basic Hot rodding is all it is. Harley has to be EPA compliant and the after market is more than likely selling kits that are " for offroad or competition use only" . Eventually the EPA will do the smack down on Zippers and many of the other companies just like they have, to Harley and Vance and Hines already!!
You can add any stage kit work done after the first 60 day to the extended warranty but it all has to be Harley parts and done by Harley techs at a Harley dealership. Just inquire with the finance people at the dealership for more details.
That thundermax tuner is the whip....brought my 103 to life...love it...keep it up man another cool vid....
Push rod motors are the way to go! Absolute tune-able beasts and why we love them. Nice work Tall. Just a matter of time to set all this in motion for the aftermarket. Life’s short, just buy the bike.
Appreciate your video - thanks! I currently have a Screamin' Eagle 117 twin cam. It has plenty of power, but I have a sickness - if I know more power is available, I want it. Now that my bike is no longer in warranty, I'm willing to look after market. Until now, I've never heard of Zipper's Performance - and given your happiness with them, I'll look into them. Take care!
I have a 2011 RKC that i just recently upgraded my 107 with the SE Stage 5 Tire Shredder Kit with SE 585 Cams, Trask Performance High Flow Air Cleaner, Dynojet Powervision tuner, and D&D Fat Cats 2 in 1 full exhaust system with ghost pipe and after 2 dyno's my numbers came back at 124 HP and 131 TQ. I'm very satisfied with my setup and the reliability to ride cross country and daily rider!
I have a bone stock Road Glide 107 and I'm lovin it. Although if a rebuild or tear down is in the future I would most certainly go with the 124. Awesome bike!
Helped me make my decision for sure
I've seen a few 131 kits that have melted down due to not the best parts or piss poor installation from HD dealers. From what I've seen online, Zippers does impeccable work, so personally I'd much rather have the zippers kit.
Zippers does great work and research on their products, only worry is drivetrain handling more torgue, hd denied my trans warranty, proving aftermarket is best solutions! My thx to tall and zippers, enjoying our 468/thundermax matched w baker dds trans on a 2017/107/ultra. We average about 37 mpg on trips, cooler =longevity, torgue=fun! Got it w zippers!
Tuning is a big part of those numbers though so it depends on how it’s tuned
agreed that is my question . screaming eagle pro-tuner I think Not!
It’s most likely more in the tuner than anything. The 131 is restricted with the screaming eagle tuner. The 124 is with the aftermarket tuner. It would be interesting to see what the 131 would do with an aftermarket tuner. It would also be interesting to see what a stock M8 would do with an aftermarket tune.
124 makes a lot of sense to me!
That 131 has really thin spigot walls going into the top of case and the cylinder walls are gonna flex...the 124 is much thicker and will stay sealed when it revs=more power and dependability
I am still stuck on 10000 miles and having to replace guides and working on the valve train at all on that few of miles I just hope those pressed togather flywheels stay true my stock 06 twin cam sure didn't I sold it and went back to shovel other than having to keep a few bolts tight no problem
Yah that's kinda scary. My Duc DS1000 is no fire breathing enterprise but she moves out quite well especially in the twisties.... but no huge issues and closing in on 30K miles.
After watching the build series as with all good performance they tightened the tolerance and did not go too radical. Tuned the new ecu to match the mods and factory design, It’s about precision performance. Nice build. I had the privilege of watching one of the big four factory race tuners chief engineer tear down and rebuild factory GP bikes back in the early 90’s.
I have the 124 kit on my 07 Roadglide. LOVE it. 139 hp / 150 torque. Dark Horse crank. 40 mpg. It hauls.
I have tuned a SE 131 with a D&D pipe. 140hp 150tq super smooth graph
You can make big numbers out of the 131 if you use a different tuner, but then you void your warranty. Thanks for the comment.
@@TravelingTall I also did another 131 that used the SE Protuner... 131hp 142tq
I had Zippers do my heads for my Shovelhead, Red Shift 550 cam, S&S G carb with thunder jet , dual plugs and it has been a great runner, Zippers does great things.
"About 3 months after I bought (product), (manufacturer) came out with something bigger and better". Story of my life. Also, I I have the ability to send companies into receivership just by deciding I like their products and going all in with them.
I have asked before and will ask again, "What is your miles per gallon?"
I have a 107 ci, Street Glide, and only did a torque cam. I went from 50 mpg to 46 mpg.
Great video Tall once again! The 131ci motor just cam out so just give it a little time and all the aftermarket kits will come out for the 131 and it will be beast. If you put a Thundermax tuner and an aftermarket exhaust this Stage IV motor will put out way more power. Any setup that is not EPA compliant will always produce more power and torque. No comparison!
David Torres Exactly ! Watch what the numbers will be with an aftermarket tune, cams and exhaust.
Bingo!
I’d like to see the H-D CNC Ported Heads on your bike with the numbers .
Something i feel is worth mentioning if it wasn’t already. Tall’s 124 kit has 130ft/tq and higher at the rear wheel from around 2600-5250rpm. That’s pretty amazing 👍
The HD 131 kit includes a EPA legal tuner and tune.... therefore less HP and torque numbers.....I suspect your 124 motor is not EPA legal....( more power to ya)👍. also need to know what compression ratio of each motor and what cam is used.... cubic inches is only one small part of the equation.
Correct! I would like to see what this thing makes with a real tuner, exhaust, and a real cam
I was told the EPA Harley 131 doesn’t have much more power than the 117 sleeper kit Dino tuned.....EPA 👎
My 131 is running 140HP AND 145TQ. Absolutely love it! Got a buddy who’s building out an S&S 128 and can’t wait to head to head with him lol
Is that with se tuner warranty complaint parts or aftermarket tuner or headpipe I'm debating on goin warranty complaint or aftermarket on my 18 road glide I want to get good power curves and 130/140 so I am very interested to know what's on your bike
what a joy to ride have fun my lite dyna makes those numbers jims 120 fun fun fun
Don't ever let your Dad ride your bike ... he may not want to give it back to you! :)
Cheers, from Perth, Western Australia.
I like both the SE and Zipper performance upgrades. The numbers are always subjective. Upgrades always have a contingency. Do the research, ride a buddies bike, as questions. Find the performance arch that works for your riding style. You may not need all that HP because you don’t goose it to 5500rpms or don’t cruise at 100mph. You might like a torque monster that gets you to your performance band quicker and cruising at 88mph. Reliability is the key. Unless you can afford a daily and play toy that is. Either way, keep it rollin guys.
Give me the 124 all day !!💪
Love Harleys and owned one for 11yrs. I came to the point that it didn’t make sense to spend 5 or 6 thousand dollars on mods when I could buy a used 18 year old Yamaha with 135 hp at the wheel that weighs less than 500 lbs for 2700 dollars and keep my Electra Glide for long trips.
Would be cool if you talked about $ invested vs H-D 131.
Yeah, that’s the important number
You made the right choice
Great video. Many people really dont understand that the screaming eagle stuff by Harley is hobbled by the EPA. My mechanic laughs when I we discuss 110 kits vs the new M8's because the 110 kits absolutely blow away the M8's in performance.
Great video this is the first one Ive seen an I'm pretty sure not the last one, good work man.
IMHO, a really important difference is in the torque and power curve delivery points--your 124 kit comes on much earlier and stays high through the "street" zone, whereas the HD kit is a higher RPM kit, more in the "racer-boy" zone. For me, and I would guess a large portion of us, the Zipper 124 kit delivers more where it is used around town (1500-2500 rpm) AND for passing etc on the highway (3000-3500 rpm). You made the better choice. The other big difference, of course, is that the HD kit IS EPA certified and warrantied when bought and installed in time by a dealer (incl'g Calif as I recall if you use their mufflers which relocate the catcons).
Thanks for watching Michael and for the comment.
I think you made a smart choice Tall 👍🏻
Do you have a cost comparison?
The Zippers kit is cheaper but, there is a few more things that I needed that I would suggest to you. The Screaming Eagle kit suggest a few more things needed as well. I will make another video showing you what installed and the cost soon. Thanks for watching.
Ok Tall, I liked the comparison you did here. I have a '18 FLHX and I haven't been completely sold on the 128/131 kits and now that they just introduced a 119/122. I need to see the numbers on the 119 kit to see where my gains would be over my 107 which has a H-D Stage 1(full SE exhaust/wedge hi-flo air cleaner/ProStreet tuner) and I am averaging 45 miles (highway) a gallon before the fuel light comes on. I have seen a few people ask but I haven't seen your reply about your gas mileage on the 124. I work at a H-D dealership and I know the restrictions that Harley has to work under in regards to EPA but like you stated you went for the best bang for your money and I am thinking the same. Once again, what is your gas mileage with the 124 since this is your everyday rider.
Hey CJ, 210 out of a tank. I reccomend you go with a 468 cam and make more power than the SE 119.
I think the results of this comparison would be wildly different if the SE 131 had the same RedShift 472 or maybe the 468 cam in it, along with an upgraded Cam plate and oil pump. The new SE 131 package uses the same SE 515 cam which comes on the stage IV kits... which is why I switched to the RedShift 468 on my 117 Fatboy.
The 131 and 128 kits come with the new set 517 cam.
Chris Barr - I stand corrected... Good point. However, there’s still no magic that would allow “Tall’s” 124 to dramatically outperform a 131 beyond the usual suspects of a more aggressive cam, upgraded air intake/exhaust, upgraded injectors or the tune itself. My point is... all else being equal, the 131 should slightly outperform. In his comparison, all else ISN’T equal. If that were the case, I’d brag about my 117 being able to outperform the new 131. But I won’t bc I have several upgrades that dictate that I should be making more hp and tq.
Depending on who's dyno you're on, it seems like they all gives different HP and torque numbers
You are correct. Every dyno will read different. Time of day,temp, humidity, and how much the dyno operator fudges the settings will make big changes.
Just got to say I just got stage 2 kit installed on my ultra, plenty fast enough for me. HD torque cam the rest is S&S so. Smooth, love it
Great video. Great review. I'm doing a 131 build at a dealership with mostly aftermarket parts and covered by a seperate warranty given by dealer. I'll send details soon.
after watching your videos i decided to do just the cam (468) and the d&d 2into1. with a tuner (not harley). i had the work done at my local dealership and they had it dyno tuned. it runs a lot better, but not where i thought it would be. only making 103hp and 113ft lbs at 2700. still happy with it though. thanks for sharing.
Sounds like a good build. What tuner did you use?
@@TravelingTall the maximus. after seeing what they were able to get out of your fathers bike, i was hoping for a bit more torque with the 2into1.
I turned my 107 into a 128. Got 114 inch flywheels and sent them to dark horse then got 128 S&S jugs and pistons and sent my heads to ward performance. I made 144tq and 150hp
124” is probably getting better gas mileage & you got better numbers than the 131” it’s a good deal. Good video.
Great information I have used zippers in the old days
The SE 131ci hardly compares to anyones aftermarket stage 2 let alone any aftermarket stage 3 or 4.
Other aftermarket companies have made 131ci or bigger for years. Its nothing new..they are just more for full on drag bikes.. its just now SE has a very low hp one
You say that but it has the same power as the challenger. Can you explain that? I can bet you thought that the challenger was the best thing Indian ever made. THE HATE IS REAL!!
duane howard the new challenger dynos on average around 115 torque and 105 HP. My new road glide with a woods cam made 119 TQ and 109 HP. If Harley were to swap the cam out and tune it differently, the bikes would make the same numbers. Challengers numbers aren’t that impressive once you see that it is 11:0 compression, liquid cooled, and basically the same displacement as the 107 M8.
Those numbers from screaming eagle are the baseline setup running the se tuner. They won’t dial the bike up due to warranty issues. Put a different tuner on and tweak that setup and guys are hitting 140’s hp/torque
Amazing how flat the torque curve of your engine is up top.
Thanks for watching Phillip
2021 roadking 107 when S.E. 119 i love it for the cost and performance & warrants and the best part is its funny
Man u really luv Harley Davidson, thx for representing the brand
Thanks for the video. As someone who is considering this stuff right now, I think you're giving good info and good advice. However, as some others have noted, you're comparing a maxed-out 124 build with a crippled 131 build. The numbers you see for the H-D 131 have stock exhaust headers with cat converters and EPA-friendly tunes. If someone did with those kits what Zipper did with your kit, optimize the cam, exhaust and tune, no telling what the numbers could be. But it's really difficult to find anybody who's done that, because the people buying 131 right now tend to want to maintain their warranties. It may take a year or more before we start seeing the full power of the 131 show up in RUclips videos.
My thoughts exactly!
Not to stick up for Harley (. I have zippers heads on my 103 ) but it’s the tuner that sets your 124 above that 131. Since H-D got sued by the EPA and are not allowed to sell the race tuner only street tuner those will be the results. Now if someone were to put a powervision on the 131 And a experienced tuner the 131 would put out much better numbers I’m sure
What kind of mileage do you get with your bike I travel a lot I do a lot of miles I'm really curious what kind of mileage you get with your bike without honor if you have any information about the 131 mileage that kids I would appreciate it
I haven't been easy on the throttle since the install, but I will be making a 1600 mile trip coming up soon. I can tell you what I'm getting now is about 215 out of my 6 gallon tank. Thats mainly running around town with the occasional blast off :)
Comparison probably should’ve had out the door prices. That would be nice to see.
Just curious why HD threw in a 517 cam and not a bigger one?! With heads and bigger TB I’d think it would do better against Zippers.
Obviously you have my attention because a ride a 2017 Street Glide Special in Superior Blue with the 107! I’ve bought it one year ago this week with 6,000 miles on it and it currently has 15,000 on it( and it spent 1 month in the shop for the compensator going out with 10,000 miles on it)! I also had to take some time off from riding due to a back surgery! I’m interested in that 124 but not sure if I’d spend that much money on that upgrade. As always, thank you for your content and keep up the good work! Ride safe!
The simple fact that Zippers found and fixed the 107’s. Factory flaws and issues to ensure reliability is the biggest advantage here. HD dealership mechanics would have past right over those issues “ cause if aint their problem”. And you’d never known it.
Performance company like Zippers dont have millions in budget for marketing. Their reputation and quality of work keeps customers coming back.
Now, which one would i chose for my 25k harley??? Its a no brainer! Zippers or any other quality shop over HD mass production parts.
I have a 2020 Ultra Limited and I had put 5000 miles on my bike when I had the 131” kit put on mine here by Bert’s Barracuda Harley-Davidson here in Pinellas Park, FL. I rode it for a few weeks before taking it to Bert’s Black Widow Harley-Davidson in Port Charlotte, FL for a Dyno. I by the way left it stock-ish by using the Harley-Davidson tunes for the Big Bore Kit, anyway It peaked at 4400 RPM as that is where it hit 110 MPH. At 110 MPH it was putting out 121.5 HP and 140 ft lbs torque. A couple weeks later it started to act up, I limped it home in the middle of the night beach ride, and didn’t want to risk any further damage if it was damaging it. Next day I rode it over to the shop and it was riding fine, I was told it may have been an electrical issue and to keep riding it. I parked it for a week, then on July 1st was casually riding to work (70MPH) and it shut down on me. I got it to the shop next day and the rear cylinder had seized up causing damage to the rear jug & piston. It is still at Bert’s Barracuda Harley-Davidson waiting on Harley to send my parts...
BTW, I only had 700 miles on the 131” when it seized up and it was 1/4 qt low on oil...
I am hoping to get back on her again soon, the sad part is, that I never got to open it up and see what she could do! The ones that did were the Mechanic that installed the kit, the General Manager, & the Dyno Operator...
I will advise this, IF you are thinking of getting the 131” kit, even with the Harley cooling fan behind the back jug and the radiator it still puts off a tremendous amount of Heat, it’s a lot hotter than that of the 114”!!!...
next time sell your engine on ebay, and buy a jims 120 motor or a ultima 127 for 4000$ and be done with it brute power and reliable burn tires all day long reliable.
Whatever Harley builds MUST meet EPA standards and also carry a warranty!! So the power numbers are definitely gonna be lower than aftermarket. Aftermarket does not have to use catalytic converters and meet EPA standards. Just like Tall stated. It is totally up to you the owner and your budget. Ride safe and enjoy!!
Screaming eagle kit breaths thru the cats and it’s tuner is limited. That’s why the 131 isn’t at its full potential. Good and smart choice going with zippers 124!
You can find the build videos by clicking the videos tab on the channel homepage. ruclips.net/user/TravelingTall
I have been waiting for this one 👍🏼
I love that you still call it a sleeper kit but have a giant 124 billboard on the side of the bike. Lol
Lol, I know, but thats what the kit is called.
I’m not sure when but I definitely want this kit on my lowrider 107. And prob just do one of the redshift cams like you did. Zippers knows what’s up👌. Do you know if zippers has a place they know can do quality work in California? Or do I have to make a trip to Maryland
They’re using the HD tuner, which is junk. These numbers will jump substantially with an after market tuner. Good numbers on your build.
Zippers is kings of the M8 game.
I went with a trask turbo kit on my stock 107....I wish I upgraded the motor with the turbo....I like zippers as I have one of their cams in my bike...good video and content
Good information, thanks for sharing.
The only way to get real result of the two would be to test them at a drag strip. You can alter hp n tq on the dyno if you know what your doing to get high numbers
My Evo Altima with straight pipes has 145 horsepower to back tire and 145 torque so Harley better do something as motors beat them so does mine pay that much and have to add more ha
As motors killing them to not impress rode Harleys my whole life I am 61 wouldn't buy one of what I read and seen guy I seen riding one it moved in 2nd gear scared him let a real biker who it
Thank you Tall, well said, appreciate the comparison 👍
That's a hot scooter screaming eagle still holds back a little
These motors have only on the market and there not reliable you must have a connection with HD to have this inside information
Zippers is taking off.
I was sold on upgrading my cvo 110 get that sleeper kit from zippers but they won’t ship to California
I highly recommend the kits made by Danny (aka Motor Witch) Leading Edge V-Twin. 129, 131, 151, and 159CI kits available and are truly unique and powerful
Did you have any clutch upgrades to handle that power?
Question, can someone swap a 131 cam with the 100hp cam that S&S makes? I don’t think the 590 is a good cam for the 131, I believe it can produce over 200 WHP with an S&S if that’s possible
I believe! What was the milage on each in relationship to install at time of test? And could you do this again upon your most recent upgrade?
I'd go with the aftermarket Zippers 124 Sleeper upgrade any day. I have a bunch of other things that I want to do to my 2017 Street Glide Special first though...
Thanks for watching Michael
I would go with 124 kit.