My Competitive Triple Rogal Dorn Lists! | Astra Militarum | Warhammer 40,000
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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I really appreciate the fact that you pointed out that you brought in a completely different color scheme to indicate a unit's difference for your opponent. This is really sporting and the kind of thing I wish I saw more of in the gaming community. It really clearly shows how you value your opponents and the time you can spend gaming. I've been playing guard since before plastic Catachan plastics were a thing and I've gotta say you rep the guard perfectly.
Recently faced a shadowsword with double dorn list. Loaded with scions and catachan. Was actually very difficult to deal with. Don't forget your scions now have lethals coming down from deep strike if they target any infantry. Very strong against elites.
Mr Mordian Sir,
I work the 2nd list out at 2085pts (using MFM v1.11)
3x Dorns (720), 2x Bas (280), 6x chim (420) 3x Scions (150),6x Cata (330), 1x PCS (60), 1x Lord S (125)
I was just thinking the same the points don't seems to add up. Or must have missed something.
@@boelens15080 I checked the maths three times even used a calculator but get 2085
@@MikeP.-dl3ygsame here
I was just about to say the same thing!
Yup I also double checked it and it's too many points... My list is similar except with Hellhounds instead of Basilisks (cheaper, and Dorns benefit a lot from Ignores Cover), and I couldn't fit in a second Psions squad.
I worked out a fun list using three dorn, three tech priest to give 4++ and heal and three squads of bullgryn 😅
Played my first game of pariah nexus today against chaos demons who usually destroy me and I got max points and just destroyed them.
Fear the lasguns!!
Lethal hits with frfsrf is just nasty x
@Mordian Glory I've found that keeping 1 large blob of 20 Infantry with a Marshal in my list is fantastic because 1) it's still great for pushing the mid board and contesting objectives, and 2) it means that when my opponent draws Cull the Horde, they don't get to discard it for free, but it's still not worth very many points.
That's a pretty solid idea. Thanks for sharing. I might try that with a cheap catachan blob.
@ghost9pm407 I do mine with Krieg and a Marshal so they're fairly resilient and have a lot of punch. In my recent list, I also ran 3 mechanized squads, who drew a LOT more of the fire, plus a tank platoon to blast things off the table. By the end of the game, my 20 krieg are almost always at full strength.
That's a bloody genius idea 👌
@@jamesloder8652 Yeah they're pretty solid at just fighting in the middle and acting as a screen for your tanks.
I don't think Mordian is dismissing 20 man blobs entirely. They just don't fit into this build.
I like your leaning to heavy bolters. I've been thinking the same. With the lethal hits, exploding hits, and ways to buff AP that we have, the bolter's volume could be pretty neat.
Yeah. It's not as great as you'd think. Now. That being said if you want to lean in to it cheaply: ogryn squad in a Chimera w/2 heavy Bolters. 4 heavy bolter for 135 points(possibly equivalent of 6 within 9"), stubber, lasgun array and hunter killer
I've been doing it all edition because my group (for reasons unknown to all but the dark gods) prefer more open boards so my tanks can sit back and put shots down range. Double bolter, castigator/pulveriser (I've found them to be very similar), oppressor with co-ax and the heavy stubbers is an insane amount of lethals
I think your math is off on the second list. I just worked it out, and that comes out to 2085. The first one is fine at 1995, but the second doesn’t add up.
You dropped two Tank Commanders and Grand Strategist, which puts you at 1570. But then you added Lord Solar (1695), a Platoon Command Squad (1755), two Basilisks (2035), and a squad of Scions (2085).
Am I missing something here?
Go for the tank commanders! The artillery is you safety blanket but it will not be performing like before and I’m afraid that you will regret putting them in
I like the 1st list and i am taking something similar to a gtt. The difference is i went with eradicators for 150 each as i love them as screeners for the dorns since they can still fire in combat.
Perfect timing I was just tinkering with a triple dorn list
Mordian, I just realized something about firing deck: it counts as being fired by the vehicle itself, as per the rules, so wouldn’t that mean a weapon fired from the firing deck would get lethal against vehicles? If there’s a consensus for this, it may be good reason to use infantry squads with lascannon and meltagun, turning your chimeras into little baby tank hunters
Yes this is how it works. To get it to hit on anything better than a 4+ you would need to spend a precious tank order. And if you're already spending 130+ points to do this you might as well just take another Russ for a more durable platform.
so catachans flamers provide a pretty good damage to point ratio in this case, someone should calculate that...
Ogryns inside Chimeras are gonna slap
@@dominicl5862 OH man, you're right. 12 extra heavy bolter shots at 9" coming out of a Chimera. The Fake Taxi is back!
@@SteelStorm33how? You can’t get lethal hits from torrent weapons
So, I am still not fond of seeing the Demolisher Tank Commanders; they wore out their welcome an edition ago, and I still feel that it is too bad there is no real incentive to field any other Russ as a TC, based on points, despite otherwise appreciating free war gear. Having said that, I still support that list over the second. It just feels, too me, like GW wants to marginalize artillery, or at indirect fire, as much as humanly possible, and so, while I understand the value of including it, it really does seem valuable to try and see how potent of a list is possible NOT including it, so that another dataslate doesn't render it even worse. I also really like Leontus, and his Supreme Command Blob, but I feel more lists that don't auto-include him might help keep him out of the crosshairs of GW's dataslate Norn Emissary, as I don't want to see him getting a price hike. Showing that Guard can work great, even without these things, might help them maintain availability, instead of GW just jacking up their cost because they do that to every faction's top 3 used models.
@@venkelos6996 I’d mostly agree although I’m still happy with my demolisher TC - it’s effective against most units and paired with meltas is serious up close. Lord Solar I leave out with some inventiveness; units with inbuilt rerolls to hit and scout sentinels for reroll 1s (although I think I’m in the minority)
@@richardseaton6390 I'll give this a go it sounds fun
I think the first list is definitely more optimized for the rules update. More vehicles with cheap and dense shot volume to fish for lethals is the play. Double heavy flamer auto hits are juicy and can take on horde or enemy armor but I can see the argument for sustained hits with heavy bolters. 🤓
I lean to the heavy bolter spam purely because flamers can't get the new lethal bonus. It makes them instantly less useful for anything but sweeping away chaff now for both infantry and tanks
2n list seems better to me for one thing :
You are less susceptible to lose you order with Solar being able to make order at 24" than with you tank commander.
You also gain automatically one CP a turn, which is useful in this kind of army.
And oc, you have a bit of arty, so, it will always help.
For now, I prefer double dorn to triple dorn in mechanized list, because I can take 2 to 3 hellhounds in this way, but hey, maybe it will be better like this
I do like the first list more. Also Chimera's with heavy bolters, since you got enough flamers from the firing deck, and a little range wouldn't hurt.
PS: was the double subscribe-vox cast an accident, or on purpose? the second one scared the heck out of me 😂
I like the 2nd list but would look to amend it too:
Solar - 125
Command blob - Command squad 60, infantry - 60 (dbl mortar)
Straken 55
6 x Chimera (420) - HB load out with 6x Catchans (330) -750
Earthshaker - 120
3 x Dorn - 720
Scions - 50
Scout sent - 60
2000pts
The reroll 1s on a core target from the sentinel helps the efficiency of the dorns
straken gives you a CC offensive (could be dropped for 2nd scion unit)
you keep 6 scouting chimeras
You have irritating indirect and still put a movement debuff out there
you have good reinforcement targets to aid mission play
solars cp helps overlapping to pump up the dorn AP
So there is something I call the rule of 3. Have at least 3 of something in your list because the first one is gonna die, the second one is gonna rolebad/ be out of position/ get tied up by melee, and the last one is actually going to get to do something about it. Having 6 chimeras means you can do this twice.
Without Exterminators for withering hail or creed for FoF this list will struggle into tough elite units
Since I’ve been trying to build a tank heavy force I would like to see how the tank heavy list goes. Tanks assemble
View's are getting up there Mordian congratulations, plus this means more bodies in the first wave. " For the Emperor".
Interested in the second list and how the basilisk’s perform for you with indirect and direct fire. Also curious how the scions in the chimera do. Good luck!
I like the 1st list with the 2 tank commanders! Nice video mate
2 basilisks. Being able to drop those blasts on any target you want in the board without needing LOS is still exceptionally worth it. Maybe it was too good before, but it still has the value. Hard to jocku for soace with that many other friendky vehicles
List number 2! Give my that indirect fire
honestly I'd recommend the first one, partly because I just can't get behind any of the artilery at the moment for the guard and partly because I'm curious how the guard works without it. another thing I've wanted to ask about is it might also be an idea to take some cadiens since they can hop out of thier chimera, sticky an objective and then hop back in after for safety. wasn't that big of a thing before but with Reinforcements being once per game that might mean something nowadays. what do you all think?
I like the look of it simple and no nonsense
I played a very similar list recently with Cmd blob+ Kreig, x6 Catachan+ Chimera, x2 Hellhound, x3 Dorn and x1 scion
I like the list with the Basilisks, it helps quite a lot against elite infantry that would love to be on melee with your units slowing them down, and i like Chimeras with full flamers, the Dorns deal with the tanks, the chimeras deal with the troops, helps them clear out objectives from smalles scoring units.
I'd go the x2 Demo TC list. As per mentioned in the comments your second x2 Basilisk list looks to be over 2000k points, so you'd need to drop a basilisk and replace it with something like either a sentinal, more scions or tarantula battery
Oh wow I actually played against a very similiar list the other week lol
I’d like you to try the first list so you can see how not having indirect effects the list then maybe run other list.
I'd take the first list. I really like it. It's got a lot of dakka and a lot of units to score primaries and secondaries
Cool lists! I'd lean towards the second (I'm all for that indirect fire), and double heavy flamers for the jungle boys. But then I DO love to see the galax...er... heretics burn!
The first list seems like a faster and easier build. In the second one you have to be aware of so much more.
just yesterday threw together a rather similar tripple dorn list too. only with 5 chimeras, 4 with catachans, the fifth with harker alone. but 2x20er catachans alongside straken on foot. and a 10(15) er scion squat with tempestus command squad and grand strategist. and instead of tank commander i went with lord solar in a command squad. with a single cyclops dem i got to exactly 2k points! yay
I would drop the two basilisks and 1 scions squad : instead taking 1 earth shaker carriage battery , 1 kasrkin squad (for reinforcements) , and take 1 death korps of krieg squad for lord solar command blob. Brings you to exact 2k points and rounds the army out nicely!
Prefer the 2x TC list. rather than basilisks I would have put scout sentinels or rough riders in the second list
Mordian you put in the "attention guardsman" thing twice on accident
First list is more meta. However I would go for the second. Don't underestimate the minus movement of the basilisks.
Tank Commander list for me, let’s see how much direct you get in there. Plus the second list feels the points are off, maybe I’m missing something
I've come to this channel as an ork player. Literally just played guard and not absolutely smoked. Orks (imo) have nothing that can puncture through that much armour without being shot to pieces :(
The dual yank commander list.
Before I watch here’s mine-
Solar+cmd sqd+ infantry
1x Chimera & Harker
5x chimera & catachans
2 eradicators
3 Rogal Dorns
2085 pts and still no scout Sentinels dayum!
What about running Lord Solar with a platoon command squad and two infantry squads, each with mortars? That would give you indirect fire on the cheap.
Second list is over points, drop 1 basklisk and have another scions unit.
I think first list is more punchy but you need some indirect and home objective control. You dont want a static tank that might not have los on home objective.
What a perfect time I got three rogal dorns a few days ago :)
How would you hold the home objective with the first list?
Thoughts on taking one chimera full of cadians to sticky that objective if needed?
That would also make it up to an even 2k So helps with OC AND OCD!
Great video
Hmmm...you know if you made the command blob an infantry squad with platoon command you could fit two mortars in there. Switch out the basilisks for some mortar teams and you'd have points left over for Straken. Plus a bunch more guys in the backfield to do objectives with. And I think enough left over for a regimental Enginseer.
Otherwise I think the list without indirect fire is cleaner and will do better. You should be able to use the scions to clean out small units in the backfield.
I just watched most of his live stream...cant believe he didn't address the miscalculation on going over 85 points...list 1 is 1995 pts ...list 2 is 2085.
Beside that just want to make 2 points.
1) (Tank commander vs Solar Command) When you lose Tank commanders that are supposed to buff the Rogal dorn with orders and things get tagged in combat your gona be trying to roll alot of 5s to hit which is Poo. Lord solar is safe almost every game on home objective giving CP, long range orders, and scoring home objective.
2) Artillery is very necessary and still extremely good in almost every match...not just slowing down infantry with `basilisk ability... i for example have a few thousand sons players in my local area tournaments... against most armies they get away with the fact of having 6 characters and 4 rubric squads to put 4 of them in...leaving 2 characters out means you instantly get to snipe out their valuable cabal points!!!
I’ve been thinking up a list kinda like this except thanks to model restrictions it would be 3 chimera squads and 3 Taurox Primes.
I’ve been running 3x10 Catachans in Chimeras and 2x10 scions in T-Primes. It’s very fun when the scions jump out and reroll all hits and all wounds.
According to the app, 6 Chimeras is fine. But the second list has too many points
@@dylanhack1 you might have replied to the wrong comment, but taking 6 Chimeras is legal because they are Dedicated Transports.
@@dylanhack1 Although if you were going off my "model restrictions" comment that means I only own three chimeras at the moment, not that I have to follow the rule of 3 necessarily.
I'd go for basilisk, too much terrain and the ability to slow down your oponent is a very nice bonus, killing light units doing screen in the DZ of the ennemy is also too viable imo. Where I play there is always a cheap unit doing screen and droping scions is a nightmare if you cant remove those.
I would go double tank commander as you push more screens with the scions. But don’t forget the TC don’t get lethals so I would consider dropping the HB for plasma. I think the bolters work on Battle cannon Russ and dorns.
Let’s play a honest game of Warhammer haha with no indirect
I would rework the 2nd list to remove the basilisks and go scion big bomba for much more effective pseudo indireect that can also do backfield play
Tank Commanders!
Lord solar list with the bassies
As fun as all that direct armored firepower is. I always miss having indirect fire when i dont bring any.
First mixt !!! Roll out !!!
I prefer the second list for the order variability, extra cp generation, and movement debuff.
If its tripple dorn, why are there 4 in the thumbnail???
More Tanks=more fun!!!!
1st list feels tighter.
Meatball picante 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻
Run with the 2nd list (Artillery list).
My list is similar so would be cool too see how you would navigate it.
But i font love the 1st list. Only because its cool as fuk 🤟
Arty. Artyyyyy. I CHOOSE ARTILLERY!!!!! *Earthshaking*
I have had a love affair with Basilisks since 3rd. So it pains me to my core to say you should probably go with the first list
2nd list!
Only choosing between these two I'd do the 2 tank commanders. That said id abandon the chimera spam, and go for a pure punch army at this point with guard,
Leontus + infantry + command (245)
rogal dorn x3 (720)
Tank commander grand stratagist (220)
Leman russ Exterminator (170)
Armored sentinels x3 (195) (uses the regiment order from platoon squad and can be rienforced)
2 scion mega blobs (340)
1 5 man scion (50)
1 scout sentinel (re rolling 1s on all the tanks is really good with 3+ to hit)
exactly 2000, everything but the objective scions and scout sentinel are on permanent orders.
mech squads are so easy to use, scouting in, can die twice, its just amazing
is this enough firepower for giving up your own toughness, you can always play better, but i think these lists will be harder to play than max chimeras.
im not convinced by the armored sentinels yet, they didnt really got buffed by lethal hits, they are technically more durable than a vanquisher, but the vanquisher can take more before losing firepower and gets a swingy doomcannon on top along better toughness.
i would still go for 2 or 3 scout sentinels, the buff is still quite good and they get lethals on top, the revival of the plasma sentinel i guess, without having orders and rerolls of 1 with more than 1 dice sounds better, well... where is my mathhammer...
i think scout sentinels are better than armored sentinels still, i dint get why armored are more expensive, the bigger part of the points cost should be the damage output, because tankyness isnt worth that much in this game since 3rd edition (second edition was indeed the last edition something was able to tank something, but very different game).
I like the second one.
Go for list number 2
2nd list for me.
I play at a thousand point and also run triple dorns.
Can’t leave home with zero basilisks
Great… just built my first dorn which I brought when it first came out. Then went and brought another.
So now we are saying 3 is the key? Ok need to get a 3rd then.. don’t have to tell me twice! ;).
list too for the indirect
Bigger boom boom please
I tried this. It doesn’t work. Dorns don’t have enough AP to kill stuff. Heavy terrain means only 2 can shoot the same thing.
Tanks get infiltrate blocked and charged. All the armor mass gets bogged down in deployment for 2 whole turns.
Tank commanders don’t have lethals or orders. Chimeras pop like popcorn.
Every game the dorns got ignored and/or charged by trash for -1 to hit; everything else died.
My revised list is back to sola. Tank commander not having an army rule or being able to receive orders make them too expensive.
Infantry is mostly useless now. (I have 250 painted infantry 😢) I have 1 scion bomb cause you can reinforce it once. 2 dorns, 2 chem canons, 3 eradicators cause urban assault, max # lethal shots, and points allowed me to upgrade from vanquishers.
No infantry. Waste of points. Tech priests for doing actions. They last longer than infantry and can do stuff. Urban and flamer tanks bulldoze through people. Move half way and park.
Scion bomb to take care of non vehicle/monster elites.
I agree that Dorns don't have enough base AP. You really need to stack the -AP synergies to make it work. Hellhounds and Exterminators are good, but if you have too many, its hard to put the Dorns where you want them. You also need an easy way to put down Fields of Fire, so I prefer Lord Solar command blob with 2 mortars over using tank commanders.
Hellhounds also keep the chaff off your Dorns.
Some infantry is pretty good, though. It's still the best way to prevent your opponent scoring too much primary... But I find that 6 Chimera + Hellhounds + Dorns = Traffic Jam.
This this this. Good comment dude. This list is all weight of stats and no synergy. No Fields of Fire Factory, no hellhounds, no withering hail, no daring recon. Just take aim and stats. And the whole obsession with triple anything is just a meme, the first one fails, the second one does the DMG, the third one has nothing to shoot at.
@@justinmsc5 exactly what happened in my experience. I put sola back and an exterminator; because I was starving for CP all the time.
I lost most games because of traffic jam and infantry getting in the way when chimeras pop. For the price of 2 useless infantry get a hellhound.
@@erupendragon7376 Yeah but without infantry I also found that the enemy could out-OC me even from a losing situation, and score better primary. Good players would just trickle enough OC. Hellhounds steamrolling onto points would get there, but enough chaff survives to score.
Also, not having some infantry meant that a big chunk of the board was off-limits to my army. With some infantry, you can advance all across the line and use all the space. With just tanks, you really only get 2-3 corridors for all your points. Also makes screening deep strike much easier when you can put units in ruins. Often found the ruin would make it so one tank couldn't stand in the right spot and would leave a corner with just enough space.
Too bad no more Creed blobs. They were really helpful for deep strike screening... They don't seem worth the price anymore now that you can't double FoF.
Dorn needs to go up in price, It should not be 40 more points than a demolisher leman russ and have significantly more firepower. It also shouldn't be more durable than a land raider
Drop the Odd Chimera and replace it with a hellhound
Do you think the Stormlord would be worth it with a Krieg blob and it's firing deck 24?
Reporting for Duty , Sir o7
As a "grunt" Infantry Commander , I have no clue to the "tread head" side of playing
just built my first rogal Dorn, is it normal to have a huge hole in the bottom of it?
Yeah its a flintstones tank.
gw decided to delete one of their sprews for the rogal dorn
L00l
Are those Kromlech heavy flamer turrets?
The peaple Who are gonna face this list at a tournament arent gonna have a lot of fun
Do you have a fourth Order for the Basilisks somewhere? Artillery that hits on a 4+ isn't your usual style.
doesn't indirect always miss on a 1-3 now anyway? So no order needed!
You can't hit on anything better than a 4 with indirect
Would you consider gaunts ghost's in stead of 2 squads of 5 scions? Personally i think its better value 🤔
Does the scout sentinel override the "only hits on 4s" rule for idf?
No
I feel like the 2nd one is more flexible
I think jungle fighters are a poor choice now. I would go 30 Catachans and 30 Kriegers.
I would not take the basilisks.
I would prefer the command blob over tank commanders.
Bang on 2000pts.
Lord Solar, Command Squad, 10 Catachans
Harker
2 DK Marshals
30 Catachans
30 DKoK
2 x 5 Scions
3 Rogals
6 Chimeras
@@lookbach
-DKoK
+Ogryns
isn't the second list 2085PTS?
It is
Are you not over 2000 points there?
First list comes out at 1995 pts second is 2085 pts
take the 2nd please or both
I think you are overvaluing the heavy bolters, used the Malcador Defender last game. It was OK. This was at -3 AP also. Re-rolling 1s. Dreadnork was a boss, but 6 Ogryn did more work than either of those 2. Sentinels, as expected, had the most versatility.
o7 o7 o7
Basalisk list. Far more flexible overall
🫡
FIRST COMMENT!!
heavy bolter is always superior,
i dont get why people dont get this.
heavy bolter have damage 2.
multilasers would need to be ridiculously buffed to even compete with heavy bolters.
even with 8 shots and rapid fire, 3 shots with sustained hits is better because of damage 2.
the ap doesnt matter much, its gone in cover anyway.
flamers arent even close to heavy bolters, well overwatch, but nothing going better is still very close to nothing.
hb should never have damage 2,
the other reason is that gw decided that even a bare fiast should detonate a land raider,
without strength requirements for weapons hitting very tough targets, volume of fire is pretty good,
but it shouldnt, a heavy bolter shouldnt be able to wound any tank, thats why lethal hits are such a scam,
machine guns become better than dedicated anti tank cannons, warhammer is dumb and gets dumber right now.
they wanted to have a gap between infantry and tanks, a game which isnt kill on sight,
but they did the opposite, the toughness and strength changes are meaningless.
poison was once pretty strong, because it capped its wound roll, nowadays everything is capped and triple crits for six hundred wounds of 3 shots, whats this shit.
well do only hit on 4+ for artillery, thats such op, but let everyone and their mother do 1 million damage on 2+.
i dont care for guard changes, but there was and is no balance, and no change can be for balance, because in this short time no meta can form.
10th is a power sell edition.
and btw fuck dmg2 heavy bolters,
they should be dmg1, thats for balance,
not every shit gw did.
everything was only for sales, not for balance.
you sir, are psycho, and I appreciate it. So IF, you wanted to win, you're saying spam heavy bolters because dmg 2. Ogryns inside chimeras with double heavy bolters seems S tier guard rn.
2nd list 100%
caus' their is more dudes and bigger guns 🧠🧠
That's because it's over by 85 points :(