Did Istaroth BETRAY Celestia? || Genshin Lore Theory [4.5]
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2024
- A lot of attention to detail goes into Genshin, which means that the symbols scattered all across Teyvat aren't simple decor. But what if the omnipresent triquetra and triskelion hold one of Celestia's best kept secrets? What if Ei told us about that secret long ago and we just didn't know enough to listen?
What if Istaroth...is a sinner?
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I'm convinced that "sin" in the eyes of the Heavenly Principles is to betray the fate prescribed to mortals by the heavens.
That triquetra likely represents Past, Present and Future, aka the goddess of time its entirety, rather than a segment.
The sun and moon can also represent light. The triquetra has been thought to possibly be light many times in the past, but this makes me think it could be both light and time. Istaroth might also have domain over the light element, maybe stolen from Celestia.
I don't think it's stolen. She's one of the four shades so if Phanes had light/imaginary element then it's natural Istaroth would have it too
One thing i have discovered in real life is, the triquetra is a product of paganism which somehow, modern Christinaity, particularly Roman Catholics have indulged into and own it as it is were its own. In short, most of modern Christianity including Protestants are all of Satan.
If Phanes was the light bringer then all the shining shades should have this innately.
8:44 I want to add some notation on those mechanisms:
they are not listed in the archive because they are not classified as enemies, but as obstacle - like spiders, who also missing from the archive.
They also MOST LIKELY not of Khaenri’ah origin, as they’re only located in Dragonspine and do not share visual similarity with Khaenri’ah automatons. They probably were built by Sal Vindagnyr civilisation that was destroyed by the Nail.
Yeah Khaenriahn robots are built to mimic life forms whereas earlier civilizations created robots based on simple geometric shapes.
The robot is also found in the GAA. There was 1 that you could find at the ruins of a boat. Apparently, the Seirai pirates had one in their fleet when they got stranded at the GAA for a time. Idk where they got it from, but the only other place we've seen those is Dragonspine, which would imply the Seirai pirates were at Dragonspine at one poini in time, at least.
These robots precede Venti becoming Archon and throwing the mountain tops into the sea. So the robot could have been on a nearby Mondstadt mountain top other than Dragonspine and tossed into the sea to create the islands to begin with.
@@captaindanger13
@@davidjohnson8273 If we talk about mimicking lifeforms, the defense mechanisms are very similar to Whopperflowers.
17:49 that's not a Solomon's knot. It's a Dara knot albeit a simple one. Each of the four loops goes under the next. The Solomon is simpler still. There's also an asymmetric version of the knot that's near the moon dials and the circular pattern (near cave where the sword is found) on Dragonspine that's probably not a knot at all (meaning if you yank on it it probably opens up into a loop). Well I could be wrong about that.
I too think Ista betrayed her creator/parent and fellow shades. Pulled a Loki to side with humans and dragons. In norse legends Loki sides with enemy against Asgard after being imprisoned. Loki had many very dangerous children such as Fenrir, Midgard Serpent, Hel, and more.
If you look at Raiden's family emblem it resembles 'triquetra'....
It seems Istaroth and Makoto with Ei (see, it is a TRIO) were pretty close even before the Sacred Sakura planting event
eternity is closest to the heavenly principles or something
eternity is a type of time
coincidence?
I'm crying I was fully anticipating Venti mention at least once especially with the thumbnail but instead the focus was on Ei 😭
I think it was because Venti is a shade of istaroth. Or at least theorised to be I honestly forgot.
@@The1andonlysharpshooter Its generally uncertain the state of what Venti truly is. All that's confirmed is that he has a direct connection with Istaroth. He could be a part of her, or he can be a shade himself or at least part shade
@@The1andonlysharpshooterventi is one of the 1000 winds of time
He was born from istoroth .
He is a branch of time.
That's why he have some level of time magic
15:23 - 15:33 I wholly agree with Ei's eternity concept with Istaroth. But she absolutely not thinking much further ahead in that way 🥲. Her goal was that Inazuma would not lead into such a civilization like Khaenri'ah (having ambition) which then would get hitted by horrendous cataclysm. Funnily, Khaenri'ah also getting the curse of immortality + wilderness for the ones who's not pure blooded Khaenri'ah (that also get immortal). I think it's more like Ei ultimately intent to force the stillness as in the 'usual' life for Inazuma people (?). I'd say Ei at the very least want to achieve Primordial One's 'eternity' for having the safe haven for human? (before The Second Who Came).
This actually fits BSaM's The Year of Jubilee: "The one taboo was to succumb to temptation." (exactly what Ei think vision does) "But the path to temptation had already been sealed." (vision hunt decree doesn't negate Ei's principle)
Also, with Istaroth, I think she really represent both transience and eternity. And in a way that transience is the eternity itself (like life). But I definitely agree with the part of eternity that abandons the flowing of time (absolute stillness) and material world, I suppose Tsaritsa may had some of that 👀.
6:42 I don't know if you've tried this, but as I recall the flow of time continues inside of domains at the same rate as outside in the sense that if you time how long it ought to take for the game time to move on an hour (I forget the ratio between real time and in-game time) and you go into a domain and wait for that long, when you come out the game time will have moved forward an hour the same as had you been outside the domain. It would have been cool if they'd made time go at different speeds in different domains.
That’s the thing…. Time in the domains does not flow akin to the eternal oasis
@@JoshuaA1307 More like, time does flow. But the skies in domains are even more fake than in Teyvat..
I think he got confused with the domain created by Makoto where everything happened in the cherry sakura, which explains in detail that that particular domain ended up buried in the ley lines and there the natural laws such as time itself does not make any sense so there the time itself does not work, but in the domains we know if they are concetados to teyvat and including their physical laws.
Are you suggesting that the travellers were wished down by Istaroth? In the cut scene both twins are trapped later on you see them called down to Theyvat in an animation suspiciously looking like the wishing animation in game. Who wished the travellers down to Theyvat.
While I am at it why did only one sibling find Paimon, what is it that makes them different
Wasnt the Jester who "wished" on the twins? I remember Scaramouche telling that to us in his story quest, while inside the Irminsul, that the twins were summoned by Pierro, who was the archmage or something like that in Khaenr'iah. Or like, are you suggesting that maybe Pierro had Istaroth's help to begin with? That would be interesting~
@@CelticBotansDigitalArtI have many thoughts about Khaenri'ah. The eyes Khaenri'ahn people have has the primogem symbol the same currency used to wish to intertwine fates from the heaven. The only person with eyes different than that is Arlecchino it is likely that she is not aware of this and think her destiny is to be a Fatui but I actually think she is something else entirely I have a strange sensation it's tied to the story that Caterpillar tells about a little girl trapped by a giant. I would be amazed if it has no connection to Khaenri'ah at all. The destiny of Khaenri'ah is tied to the Fatui in some way I am not sure how. The intentionally zoom in on Arlecchinos eyes after showing Pierros to show the difference it's almost like she has been denied her heritage. There is a possibility that Istaroth was involved yes. I believe Istaroth was the one that warned people what Celestia was about to do, but she can't straight out say it, cuz it's against the laws. No question these gods are outcasts by Celestia and it mocked up the time rythm in Theyvat
@@CelticBotansDigitalArt If it is as you say, means the Fatui knows the truth of this world. How that happened I am not sure but it is possible that the Tsaritsa is guiding the traveller rather than being an enemy to him/her. One way is that Khaenri'ahn people are immortal, and if Irminsul erases memories by rebirthing people, it won't work on Khaenriahns. This was an unintended consequence of cursing them to immortality.
I think Dainsleif is the real villain in the game, and it's been set up since they met in Mondstadt. Dainsleif has a ring that he is trying to mend but I don't think Dainsleif remembers what he did. However that ring is tied to Nibelung an opera, and also the name of the Dragon King. I think he tried to stop Nibelung from obtaining forbidden knowledge in order to fight the heavenly principles and I think that is the reason why the dragons lost. I think Lumine knows or found out, and pretty much sees him as the real enemy now.
14:48 I’ve always chalked the Vision Hunt Decree up to the Shogun, not Ei. I think Ei went along with it and didn’t interfere with the Shogun puppet cause she had already made the choice that she would trust the judgment of the Shogun as she stayed in the Plane of Euthymia to fight off god dementia. I think Ei said something along those lines at the end of the archon quest or her story quest; that she knew what was going on but was passive about it as she trusted the Shoguns choices would maintain “eternity” but I think I need to be fact checked on that if you or someone else has the info lol. It wasn’t until she interacted with Traveler twice. Then her(Ei) story quest has us watching a battle between Ei and the Shogun and helping Ei find her new resolve, so there is clear conflict between them, at least there was at one point. I’ve chalked most of Ei’s light contradictions up to the fact that there are 2 personalities in one body lol. So the Vision Hunt Decree, as you said, does not align with Ei and her beliefs. It does align with the Shoguns ideals of suppression and domination though.
I was DYING for another videeeo!!!
I could be wrong but i thought the vision hunt decree was robo raiden idea and EI wasn't even aware😅
Ei actually said that she knows about the Vision Hunt Decree, but decided to go hands off and let the puppet keep going
@@fafnirable1 ahh thank you for that clarity. I just felt like she let raiden do whatever was necessary for eternity. 🤣
@@kirittv that's kinda what happened. She was still recovering from the deaths of her loved ones, so she wasn't thinking clearly. Yae also couldn't reach her until the traveler gave her a path. She was thinking of eternity as not losing anyone else and not the growth from eternity
@@fafnirable1 definitely. That story is still very sad.
First the shadows of tokoyo were created by orobaxi not by Kairos (the other name they gave him).
Also, the way Istaroth works is through third parties and seems to have no power to intervene directly in the events, or at least in none that I know to mention or is known to have had any relationship has intervened directly.
As for what happened in inazuma, what Ei was looking for was the authority to create a space where time would stop for that she occupied the visions and thus be able to create that domain/plane where no one could die, or basically an eternal sleep, and she was not the only one looking for that, also deshret sought to create the same realm, but failed in the process.
But then Istaroth betrayed celestia?, not in fact if one looks at all the facts where he has always been benefiting celestia and teyvat specifically, putting the right individuals in the right places at the right time so that the outcome of that inevitable event have been desired.
It could even be said that she was the one who separated the twins, since she was the one who set the stage for the main actor, the traveler, to shine and fulfill his destiny of helping the archons.
Finally, it can not be the sinner since this seems to be more related to the abyss and the one most believed to be the same nibelungo, both what he did and his power, and so the methods we know to seal the abyss always involve beings powers one used his own being and the other supplied the energy, what a coincidence that fanes disappeared with nibelungo at the end of the war of vengeance being the pillars that sealed and ended these.
"Sinshades: A ley line phenomenon unique to Enkanomiya that only appears during Evernight.
Whenever the "God of Moments" looks upon someone at some point with favor, their feelings and memories will forever remain in this world." This is from the loading screen. The god of moments is Istaroth, thus she created the sinshades.
The plane of Euthymia didn't really have anything to do with the visions, we only see them glow inside of it because the traveler was drawing on their power. The plane itself is just Ei's inner world that exists inside her own mind.
We cannot definitively claim anything about what Istaroth did or did not do, so we can't say who or what she might have placed where or when. But I never claimed that she is the Sinner (as in, the purple crystal) only that she is a sinner among many, someone who *might* be going against Celestia.
Frozen in time, like the rift wolves around the oasis (and possibly kaeya...?)
YES YES YES, I love this theory it's my head canon
With the connection of Istaroth to the other outcasted gods i wpuldnt be surprised to see her get involved with the Tsaritsa when we meet her
Fun fact: On Venti’s cape there are triquetra symbols
Istaroth and Kaeya surely would go along very well. His burst line literally sounds like what she would do 🤔
Honestly, every link of this logic chain is made of paper.
While Istaroth not cooperating with Celestia makes sense (especially if it's ruled by Second Who Came), I don't think any of the rest are true.
In particular, there is something to be said about the special tree that needs to be cut down. Sacred Sakura was never cut down, and it doesn't seem that there are any plans to do so. It is much more likely to be connected to destruction of Frostbearing Tree at around the same time period as Before Sun and Moon was written.
I also have extra theory.... You forgot Piamon... what if she is Istaroth... She has upside down symbol etc...
more likely since of triquetra symbolises movement , going upside down mean stasis right? and paimon can move
Well, I am not sure how much of an outcast the Traveler is, but both the Traveler and Paimon/Istaroth have a lot to gain from cooperating. They might even be able to save people who turned into Hilichurls.
8:35 Am I being picky if I say i don't think a simple 3-way rotational symmetry design is like a triquetra? (ie a trefoil knot). There's no sense of the under-over-under-over of a knot. Now on the Dragonspine robots you can see that under-over in the design. See how it's not symmetric bilaterally? as the electrograma designs are? See that sense of under-over in the way it's painted? So you can have a left knot or a right knot depending on which goes over and which under. A mirror image would not look the same as the original.
Great theory. Although, it might be incorrect that time is unchanging in domains. If that were the case, in Benny's story quest no one that entered the domain at different times would have met. And the different parties entered at varying times, yet all met at the end of the domain after waiting for some time.
I think it'd be more likely that rather than the time in domain freezing from the point _we_ entered it, it has its own point in time that everyone who enters must share. Meaning, if the time inside the domain is frozen at 6:48pm on the 12th of December 240 years ago, that's the point everyone who entered would travel to, no matter when or where they entered it. Like the eternal oasis. The point that area is frozen in isn't the time at which we enter it (I'm pretty sure), it's frozen at its own particular point.
triquetra represents the cycle of the past present and future. also in celtic the moon goddess
so basically she's the abyssal sinner crystal
No. There are many sinners. But Deshret is the only one that had a scene where we see him being turned into the purple crystal. He's most likely not dead, even though Apep swallowed him whole to gain Forbidding Knowledge.
No?
There are many sinners albedos mother is called the great sinner as well
13:48 Makoto didn't die BECAUSE of Celestia, she died because of the foolishness of khaenri'ah, she could have sent ei in her place but she Choose not to, also the primordial one loves humanity and their only goal is humanity happiness, also you mean to tell me that Celestia is evil because they don't want to destroy the physical world, and freeze everyone in time
This theroy hinges on Celestia being evil and istaroth going against her family for some resaon
While I personally don't like the idea that Celestia is purely evil, I also don't really get why some people are so against considering that they might be evil to some degree. Gnosticism alone should makes us side eye the Celestial gods. It is the main inspo for anything Celestia related and one of its core beliefs is that the material world is flawed and its creator is an evil and ignorant god.
Besides, have you read Perinheri? If you haven't, I highly suggest you do. It really puts into prespective how conditional the PO's love for humanity is and how great the price of disobidience is.
@@BluesLoreCrumbs the creator in gnosticism isn't always an evil god, before people believed that, they were commonly thought of as good intentioned and trying their best kind of God, or a child god who's playing with an ant farm, the primordial one isn't evil or ignorant, it's clear that they love humanity and that they're very intelligent,
I personally think teyvat could be a dream hosted by the primordial one and they sent paimon to a get another star aka us, to be the new host after they die, they don't want to be a tyrant, or have absolutely control over everyone, they just want a safe place for humanity survive in a crazy universe ravaged by star beasts and aeons, at, this point we might get 3 ending,
1 - we accept and become the new lord of teyvat
2 we refuse and the primordial one asks us to take paimon with us in our journey through worlds,
And 3 dainslief kills us to make sure do don't accept which makes at the end the we see a wasteland teyvat with a full grown paimon forever alone crying on heaven thrown under the light of eternal pale moon
I'm not so sure it was the foolishness of Khaenri'ah that caused the Cataclysm. History is written by the victors, and there's not really anyone from Khaenri'ah left to defend themselves. That makes them a very good scapegoat. If Celestia and the Archons did nothing wrong at Khaenri'ah, why did it sour the Tsaritsa's friendship with Venti and the others? Why is she now fighting Celestia, and the other Archons are not opposing her in any way?
To be fair, I also don't think the curse of the Khaenri'ahns is actually a curse from Celestia either. I think it's probably some kind of outside force that Khaenri'ah was accidentally exposed to and Celestia couldn't prevent. I think we'll find in the end, there's a little bit of blame to be shared by everyone for the disaster, and no one was really in the wrong. Most conflicts in Genshin work out that way.
Have you lost your mind or are there many hidden messages in such symbols and all? Both, probably.
I don't necessarily agree with this theory, and think some other theories are much closer, but I appreciate the attempt all the same. Without experimentation and failure, there is no success.
I feel like I've heard a part of this exact theory with these exact words somewhere before... Terribly sorry if I'm wrong though :c
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