Thanks for the video! At the risk of asking a stupid question... Since the FA24 is quite prone to detecting false knock, is it possible that installing an aftermarket pitch stop could create such a condition? Following a pro tune (91 octane w/ intake, charge pipe & TMIC) in May '24, my DAM was steady at 1.0 But I don't keep my AP connected; instead, I will plug it in every 1-2 mos to give things a look. Installed an aftermarket pitch stop on Weds, drove a number of cruising miles with some city driving. Connected the AP on Fri and noted the DAM at .750 even in spite of using the same premium gas from the same station that I got tuned on. I kind of doubt the pitch stop could do it, but considering the variables and increasing the rigidity of the engine-to-vehicle mounting, I am curious if even this small change would be enough to drop the DAM?
🎉 your the second person to say or confirm.. that the feedback knock is the car really trying to protect itself, and will or should correct itself , and not to freak out ! 😊
Just had my WRX tune, this guy has amazing customer service and he is not lying when he says he is open with his customers about things during the process.
My opinion. On the FA20DIT for example knock values of 1.41 are basically guaranteed to pop up. It's almost always phantom (false) knock. Very sensitive knock sensors.
Glad to know you guys are erring on the side of caution, and that E85 keeps things happy, and you have the lab to monitor things so well. Exactly what I’m looking for in a tuner and that’s why I’m bringing my 23 WRX to you guys hopefully in the next few weeks once the parts ordered for me are in. So excited to have you guys doing my build and tuning for 93 and E85!
Getting my AP and OTS tune from BCP today! Alex is great, he called me when it looked like it may take an extra day to get it to me. A++ customer service and I am super excited to drive the car with the tune.
@@gonzaloaguilar-y6x I am curious why you would say this? These tunes are pretty conservative and Alex provides a log review. In the right circumstances the engine could let go with the stock tune.
Im running on cobb stg1 91 and i’ve seen multiple times DAM value dropping to .688, .750… mainly when im driving in “economy” mode. That means no wot, just partial loads and cruising. When i start pushing a little harder, immediately i see positive values for knock learning. And then after a while DAM goes back up to 1. If i keep pushing, basically on/off throttle, i never see dam value dropping from 1. Can i say that is false knocking? Coz when i push all the way from 2k to 6k rpm, i dont see any feedback knock at all. Thanks for the explanation on the video! It was quite helpful!
I think you should add in something about the acoustics changing, IE gm gen 5 stuff and slapping on headers. Id imagine same thing would happen with Subaru and picking up false knock. Those sensors are calibrated from the factory for an otherwise stock engine with stock parts and stock manifolds
Would love to go over that. Realistically this video could be an hour long. It’s definitely a complicated and subjective situation when parts start changing. We see false noise a lot on Mopars as well as R35 GTR. Subarus especially with forged engine internals.
I was getting a lot of knock on my 32k mile VA, even just cruising. I found that while the bash guard did not look damaged, somehow it got pushed closer to the turbo and was rubbing in many places. 4 washers to space the bash guard 1mm lower fixed it!
You need to get a better mic. Plus you could probably do post processing on reducing background sound. Also, not sure on your lens, but looking into something with a low f stop would help. Then shoot at aperture priority, setting the aperture to the lowest. It will produce a blur in the background. Even a little background music. Good to see you doing more videos. Keep at it with the content
Thanks, this was recorded in the rearward facing camera on an iphone (which I why i made the comment about production quality lol) but either way I appreciate the input for future videos!
Really glad to hear that it was helpful. Having my own car and learning what NOT to do was definitely helpful for learning. Also experience working at one of the big 3 manufacturers. Doing something every day for a long time will allow you to improve at it. I still have a lot to learn.
yes sorry I should have been more clear. It's removing timing by that amount and it is a "learned" value so the ecu has determined that spot on the map needs a temporary timing reduction. When the ecu determines this is occurring to a certain degree (which can change with various factors) it may drop the "DAM" which then lowers the total timing until knock improvements are seen.
my 02 bugeye has been at 0 dam forever and only moves sometimes and it’s always random. i heard they should be at 16?? i have no clue but it’s running fine so idk
I got a VA STI (2020)… my DAM dropped to .562 after pumping some weak gas (still 91) but brand wasn’t it prolly… I am running OTS tune from AP (been on it for several months w a catback and a Cobb Big SF intake)… first time it dropped and I was shitting bricks. 2-3 days later I refueled and DAM is back at 1. Not to mention fine knock learn didn’t surpass +2.61 or -4.86… hope all is good but I plan on going down pipe AOS and a pro tune soon… thanks for the info good to know so I don’t get fucked over by a tuner
Thanks for the comment! I would say most of the time it’s fine and other times you might want to use caution (if you are hearing noises or something seems really off). As a tuner that knows what to look for I wouldn’t mind doing a pull with it dropped. The system will automatically return the DAM to 1 after it’s happy and driving it as you normally would is how to get there. Hope that helps!
Thank you so, so much for making this video - Just when I was searching on the Internet looking at people's random responses as I recently flashed my VB with Cobb OTS Stage 1 91. Like you mentioned, I get quite a lot of feedback knock cruising in 6th at hwy speed. I was a bit concerned but this video gives me quite a relief. I haven't seen my DAM dropping however I do expect it to drop when I bring it to the track (only tracked with stock tune so far). Will eventually go with a protune (too bad I live in Toronto but hey it's only a 4hr drive :P) once I have all the mods for additional power and reliability. If I may ask a question at the end: Is there any particular advise you can share about tracking the car with an OTS map?
Thank you for the comment and I’m glad the video helped explain some things. I would say best advice for tracking the car: make sure all fluids are full and add octane booster before running it. The boost will offer a little peace of mind and is relatively inexpensive insurance. Boostane is a good one.
So i had a dam drop recently after switching from a 93 ots tune to a 91 ots tune still using 93 stock 08 legacy. Was gwtting too much knock on the 93 figured maybe it was my gas and just the 93 tune being more agressive. 91 tune seemed to be running great was only seeing acceptable knock levels curious if it dropped dam because i recently fkashed the tune and still hasnt finished all its learning i dont drive very far at a time on the daily.
Good video, but i wish i knew what my issue is. I got the car in 2017 new, and I've been using an ots tune. It never gave me any fkl. Fast forward to about 2 years ago, and i get fkl a lot. There is so much where it pulls my dam down, and then i have to build a little bit of boost, and it goes back up to 1. Around 2 to 3k, i got this issue, which i was told it was cruise knock, and it's always gonna happen. The problem is it didnt happen for almost 2 years. Then i heard the carbon build-up could be causing this. Who knows, but it's a pain cause I've look into almost everything. I can deal with the dam going down thats fine. But today the fkl was so bad and i got fbk that ive only gotten this bad maybe 1 time in all the years, I've owned the car. I've run the stage zero tune, and it still does this. ( last in your opinion, could carbon on the valves cause this ) ? Thanks man
This is extremely informing im finally looking to get into modding and tuning mine after year and a half now thank you. Im curious, on totally stock did you guys also find that it was overly sensitive to knocking, or its more so after the tuning and power is being made? Cause i wonder if this explains the days where the car wants to drive amazing or shit for a period of time
So i have an issue, i bought an 05 sti with downpipes and intake, fbk and fkl have always been 0.00 for the most part and dam at 1.00 always. it didnt have an ac belt on when i bought it because the tensiner broke. so i got that fixed, put the belt on, and when i started the car i noticed it was a constant -2.8 fine knock learn. until i revved it and it would goo to 1.05 and then 0.00 when i revved it higher but itd go immediatly back to -2.8 at idle. and feedback went up to -6.0 and -8.0. so i took the belt back off same thing. then i switch from stage 2 91 v300 to stage 2 acn91 and the fkl and fbk were back to normal 0.00 but i noticed rright after i flashed the map and before i even tried to crank the car the dam was at .500 and continued that after i started. so i thought maybe it was just the acn map so i switched back to the stage 2 91 v300 and again fbk and fkl were 0.00 but dam was .500 before. and after i started the car. i took the car on a 30 min drive through all the tps and wot and i saw -2.0 fbk for a split second at crusing not wot. fkl was 0.00 the whole time. but the dam was still .500. i feel like theres no way the dam dropped because of an engine issue because it dropped before i even started the car. im wondering if the dam starts at .500 after a reflash and gradually goes to 1.00 over time or what do you think could be happening. im going to get a pro tune but wanted to wait until i throw on a bop x500r and supporting mods with flex fuel so i can get it tuned once. can i pay you to check it out?
I have an issue where I get a decent of - and + knock (i.e: -4 or -6 and +1) also have gotten dam drops occasionally while on E. Where on scales or when would you consider it to be a problem with the car. Or something that should be looked further into or just considered a normal process of the car
@@boostcontrolledperformance1523 ethanol content sweet spot for the 22+ WRX? I'm always hearing conflicting opinions for whether or not to run full E85 or blend down to E50 or so. Until there's a flex kit, I'd like to know if I can safely run full E85, rather than worry about blending. Btw big fan of this video, I always appreciate objective information.
I get a massive amount of feedback and fine knock learn at low rpm if the ac is on but only with the ac on. I’ve been to a few tuners to look at it. Is this something you have seen in the past? Is there a fix?
My dam drops on my fa20 wrx alot now that im just over 100k miles. Custom tune by ron at phatbotti. It worked great for 60k miles not so much now. Should i retune?
@@boostcontrolledperformance1523 Yeah, currently on MAP stage 1 93 octane tune. Any highway cruising in 6th gear if I give it the tiniest bit of gas it'll drop the dam. If I stay in 5th and generally keep the revs high it generally stays at 1. ANYways I just put in an order for your guys e30 tune last night, can't wait to try it!
Yes we do. They require a little different tuning approach and understanding that it may wear the CVT out a little faster but with responsible driving and proper tuning they can last.
So i had a dam drop recently after switching from a 93 ots tune to a 91 ots tune still using 93 stock 08 legacy. Was gwtting too much knock on the 93 figured maybe it was my gas and just the 93 tune being more agressive. 91 tune seemed to be running great was only seeing acceptable knock levels curious if it dropped dam because i recently fkashed the tune and still hasnt finished all its learning i dont drive very far at a time on the daily.
Thanks for the video! At the risk of asking a stupid question...
Since the FA24 is quite prone to detecting false knock, is it possible that installing an aftermarket pitch stop could create such a condition?
Following a pro tune (91 octane w/ intake, charge pipe & TMIC) in May '24, my DAM was steady at 1.0
But I don't keep my AP connected; instead, I will plug it in every 1-2 mos to give things a look.
Installed an aftermarket pitch stop on Weds, drove a number of cruising miles with some city driving.
Connected the AP on Fri and noted the DAM at .750 even in spite of using the same premium gas from the same station that I got tuned on.
I kind of doubt the pitch stop could do it, but considering the variables and increasing the rigidity of the engine-to-vehicle mounting, I am curious if even this small change would be enough to drop the DAM?
🎉 your the second person to say or confirm.. that the feedback knock is the car really trying to protect itself, and will or should correct itself , and not to freak out ! 😊
Killer video with great info. This really needs to make the rounds on r/WRX. That sub is riddled with inaccuracies and misunderstandings
Just had my WRX tune, this guy has amazing customer service and he is not lying when he says he is open with his customers about things during the process.
Great explanations and I’m proud to be tuned by you. BCP is a great company. Keep it up!
Thanks John!!
My opinion.
On the FA20DIT for example knock values of 1.41 are basically guaranteed to pop up. It's almost always phantom (false) knock.
Very sensitive knock sensors.
Glad to know you guys are erring on the side of caution, and that E85 keeps things happy, and you have the lab to monitor things so well. Exactly what I’m looking for in a tuner and that’s why I’m bringing my 23 WRX to you guys hopefully in the next few weeks once the parts ordered for me are in. So excited to have you guys doing my build and tuning for 93 and E85!
Thank you for the comment and looking forward to working together!!
Getting my AP and OTS tune from BCP today! Alex is great, he called me when it looked like it may take an extra day to get it to me. A++ customer service and I am super excited to drive the car with the tune.
It will destroy your engine
@@gonzaloaguilar-y6x I am curious why you would say this? These tunes are pretty conservative and Alex provides a log review. In the right circumstances the engine could let go with the stock tune.
Im running on cobb stg1 91 and i’ve seen multiple times DAM value dropping to .688, .750… mainly when im driving in “economy” mode. That means no wot, just partial loads and cruising.
When i start pushing a little harder, immediately i see positive values for knock learning. And then after a while DAM goes back up to 1. If i keep pushing, basically on/off throttle, i never see dam value dropping from 1.
Can i say that is false knocking?
Coz when i push all the way from 2k to 6k rpm, i dont see any feedback knock at all.
Thanks for the explanation on the video! It was quite helpful!
I think you should add in something about the acoustics changing, IE gm gen 5 stuff and slapping on headers. Id imagine same thing would happen with Subaru and picking up false knock. Those sensors are calibrated from the factory for an otherwise stock engine with stock parts and stock manifolds
Would love to go over that. Realistically this video could be an hour long. It’s definitely a complicated and subjective situation when parts start changing. We see false noise a lot on Mopars as well as R35 GTR. Subarus especially with forged engine internals.
Great info! Glad you tuned my car!
...Running analogy+Garmin, coincidence? 🤔
Haha! First thing that came to mind for a reason 😉😉
I was getting a lot of knock on my 32k mile VA, even just cruising. I found that while the bash guard did not look damaged, somehow it got pushed closer to the turbo and was rubbing in many places. 4 washers to space the bash guard 1mm lower fixed it!
Sometimes it's just something generating the right noise frequency! Glad you fixed it.
Wow! Great video. Came up in my recommended. I’m glad I watched it. Just gained a subscriber. 👍🏼👍🏼
You need to get a better mic. Plus you could probably do post processing on reducing background sound. Also, not sure on your lens, but looking into something with a low f stop would help. Then shoot at aperture priority, setting the aperture to the lowest. It will produce a blur in the background. Even a little background music.
Good to see you doing more videos. Keep at it with the content
Thanks, this was recorded in the rearward facing camera on an iphone (which I why i made the comment about production quality lol) but either way I appreciate the input for future videos!
That’s for the info on the false knock statement good to know that info
this is SOOOOO helpful!! Thank you for posting this video. How did you learn to get so good at tuning? Was it a EFI course?
Really glad to hear that it was helpful. Having my own car and learning what NOT to do was definitely helpful for learning. Also experience working at one of the big 3 manufacturers. Doing something every day for a long time will allow you to improve at it. I still have a lot to learn.
Great. Good to know. I figured the tolerance are adjusted so many times out there have no dam movement.
Yes it’s very common. Could talk about the topic for an hour but another notable time we adjust is on built engine cars.
Love the caution!
Great video thank you for the explanation. What exactly happens when “fine knock learn” changes from 0? Is it reducing timing or something?
yes sorry I should have been more clear. It's removing timing by that amount and it is a "learned" value so the ecu has determined that spot on the map needs a temporary timing reduction. When the ecu determines this is occurring to a certain degree (which can change with various factors) it may drop the "DAM" which then lowers the total timing until knock improvements are seen.
lol “ warm and fuzzy “. Thanks for the info keep up the good work ! 😂
my 02 bugeye has been at 0 dam forever and only moves sometimes and it’s always random. i heard they should be at 16?? i have no clue but it’s running fine so idk
very interesting, thank you. Can you do a similar video about the knock and dam in the EJ255 engine?
I got a VA STI (2020)… my DAM dropped to .562 after pumping some weak gas (still 91) but brand wasn’t it prolly… I am running OTS tune from AP (been on it for several months w a catback and a Cobb Big SF intake)… first time it dropped and I was shitting bricks. 2-3 days later I refueled and DAM is back at 1. Not to mention fine knock learn didn’t surpass +2.61 or -4.86… hope all is good but I plan on going down pipe AOS and a pro tune soon… thanks for the info good to know so I don’t get fucked over by a tuner
Thank for the explanations
Great video! Thx for the info. Can i still do pulls while the dam is dropped or is it better to drive normal until it rises back up?
Thanks for the comment! I would say most of the time it’s fine and other times you might want to use caution (if you are hearing noises or something seems really off). As a tuner that knows what to look for I wouldn’t mind doing a pull with it dropped. The system will automatically return the DAM to 1 after it’s happy and driving it as you normally would is how to get there. Hope that helps!
@@boostcontrolledperformance1523 What a beast! Thanks for the quick reply. Looking forward to ur future videos.
does all this info apply to the FA20 engine as well?
My FBK and FKL goes crazy when driving up hill in low RPMs lol
thank you for this.
Thank you so, so much for making this video - Just when I was searching on the Internet looking at people's random responses as I recently flashed my VB with Cobb OTS Stage 1 91. Like you mentioned, I get quite a lot of feedback knock cruising in 6th at hwy speed. I was a bit concerned but this video gives me quite a relief. I haven't seen my DAM dropping however I do expect it to drop when I bring it to the track (only tracked with stock tune so far). Will eventually go with a protune (too bad I live in Toronto but hey it's only a 4hr drive :P) once I have all the mods for additional power and reliability. If I may ask a question at the end: Is there any particular advise you can share about tracking the car with an OTS map?
Thank you for the comment and I’m glad the video helped explain some things. I would say best advice for tracking the car: make sure all fluids are full and add octane booster before running it. The boost will offer a little peace of mind and is relatively inexpensive insurance. Boostane is a good one.
Great video! Could you expand on Fine Knock Learning as well?
Great video. I’m using e85 tune. You mentioned that on ethanol it’s mostly false knock detection. Can you please tell us more about this situation?
So i had a dam drop recently after switching from a 93 ots tune to a 91 ots tune still using 93 stock 08 legacy. Was gwtting too much knock on the 93 figured maybe it was my gas and just the 93 tune being more agressive. 91 tune seemed to be running great was only seeing acceptable knock levels curious if it dropped dam because i recently fkashed the tune and still hasnt finished all its learning i dont drive very far at a time on the daily.
Good video, but i wish i knew what my issue is. I got the car in 2017 new, and I've been using an ots tune. It never gave me any fkl. Fast forward to about 2 years ago, and i get fkl a lot. There is so much where it pulls my dam down, and then i have to build a little bit of boost, and it goes back up to 1. Around 2 to 3k, i got this issue, which i was told it was cruise knock, and it's always gonna happen. The problem is it didnt happen for almost 2 years. Then i heard the carbon build-up could be causing this. Who knows, but it's a pain cause I've look into almost everything. I can deal with the dam going down thats fine. But today the fkl was so bad and i got fbk that ive only gotten this bad maybe 1 time in all the years, I've owned the car. I've run the stage zero tune, and it still does this. ( last in your opinion, could carbon on the valves cause this ) ? Thanks man
Thanks Alex!
This is extremely informing im finally looking to get into modding and tuning mine after year and a half now thank you. Im curious, on totally stock did you guys also find that it was overly sensitive to knocking, or its more so after the tuning and power is being made? Cause i wonder if this explains the days where the car wants to drive amazing or shit for a period of time
I think its safe to say alot of DI engines have false knock…..
So i have an issue, i bought an 05 sti with downpipes and intake, fbk and fkl have always been 0.00 for the most part and dam at 1.00 always. it didnt have an ac belt on when i bought it because the tensiner broke. so i got that fixed, put the belt on, and when i started the car i noticed it was a constant -2.8 fine knock learn. until i revved it and it would goo to 1.05 and then 0.00 when i revved it higher but itd go immediatly back to -2.8 at idle. and feedback went up to -6.0 and -8.0. so i took the belt back off same thing. then i switch from stage 2 91 v300 to stage 2 acn91 and the fkl and fbk were back to normal 0.00 but i noticed rright after i flashed the map and before i even tried to crank the car the dam was at .500 and continued that after i started. so i thought maybe it was just the acn map so i switched back to the stage 2 91 v300 and again fbk and fkl were 0.00 but dam was .500 before. and after i started the car. i took the car on a 30 min drive through all the tps and wot and i saw -2.0 fbk for a split second at crusing not wot. fkl was 0.00 the whole time. but the dam was still .500. i feel like theres no way the dam dropped because of an engine issue because it dropped before i even started the car. im wondering if the dam starts at .500 after a reflash and gradually goes to 1.00 over time or what do you think could be happening. im going to get a pro tune but wanted to wait until i throw on a bop x500r and supporting mods with flex fuel so i can get it tuned once. can i pay you to check it out?
I have an issue where I get a decent of - and + knock (i.e: -4 or -6 and +1) also have gotten dam drops occasionally while on E. Where on scales or when would you consider it to be a problem with the car. Or something that should be looked further into or just considered a normal process of the car
More videos like this!!
Any topics?
@@boostcontrolledperformance1523 ethanol content sweet spot for the 22+ WRX? I'm always hearing conflicting opinions for whether or not to run full E85 or blend down to E50 or so. Until there's a flex kit, I'd like to know if I can safely run full E85, rather than worry about blending. Btw big fan of this video, I always appreciate objective information.
I get a massive amount of feedback and fine knock learn at low rpm if the ac is on but only with the ac on. I’ve been to a few tuners to look at it. Is this something you have seen in the past? Is there a fix?
Informational
Thank you!
EJ has had low FBK and FKL for a little bit and just reduced DAM to .812. Its running just fine though. Is it possible that it needs spark plugs?
My dam drops on my fa20 wrx alot now that im just over 100k miles. Custom tune by ron at phatbotti. It worked great for 60k miles not so much now. Should i retune?
Help! My DAM drop to 0.000
Me too car runs a little weird when dam drops at all. I have stage 1+ 91 with a cobb intake
Does this apply to VA STI as well?
Yes
What if your DAM drops way down below .5 or so, and seems to never come back up unless you reflash your car?
Might be worth investigating further but I’ve seen this a few times and sometimes it just seems like a fluke. Wish it was a more perfect system!
@@boostcontrolledperformance1523 Yeah, currently on MAP stage 1 93 octane tune. Any highway cruising in 6th gear if I give it the tiniest bit of gas it'll drop the dam. If I stay in 5th and generally keep the revs high it generally stays at 1.
ANYways I just put in an order for your guys e30 tune last night, can't wait to try it!
Do you guys to protunes for 2022 cvt wrx?
Yes we do. They require a little different tuning approach and understanding that it may wear the CVT out a little faster but with responsible driving and proper tuning they can last.
Talk about DAM.. IM A 0 938
So i had a dam drop recently after switching from a 93 ots tune to a 91 ots tune still using 93 stock 08 legacy. Was gwtting too much knock on the 93 figured maybe it was my gas and just the 93 tune being more agressive. 91 tune seemed to be running great was only seeing acceptable knock levels curious if it dropped dam because i recently fkashed the tune and still hasnt finished all its learning i dont drive very far at a time on the daily.
Thank you for this