RANGED ATTACKS! - Secret Stats Warhammer 2
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- Опубликовано: 28 фев 2021
- The hidden secrets of ranged attacks in Total War: Warhammer 2!
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"...by blowing up some dwarfs." Aaaaand another Book of Grudges entry for Zerkovich.
He's a Greenskin Guy, There is an entire bunch of the whole pages of him already. One more won't hurt him... much...
With all the short leg jokes he makes, he should have a "Library of Grudges" by now.
@Johnathan Cason testing out these bots, looks... ehhh... maybe pro- no. How about quite poss- not gonna work. How about... ummmm... bad? Yeah that works
Joke is getting old
What else are 'em dwarves good for, apart from this and housework?
"Your favorite ranged units. *No dwarves.*"
*Angry writing in a book.*
Skaven Jezzail soldier: "My skaven lord! We should each aim at a separate soldier in front of us so we can kill them all at once!"
Lord: "Nonsense! We should all fire at that one man-thing at the very edge of the platoon just so we can be 100% sure we'll hit him yes-yes."
Realistically I think it would be a very effective tactic if you could achieve this level of accuracy. If the skaven shoot the entire unit, well that's that, you put your shield up and hope to stay alive. But imagine the Skaven unleashed two volleys, and both were aimed at the left edge of the unit. The people there were instantly killed with no hope of surviving, their bodies hit with bullet after bullet well beyond what it would take to neutralize them. And now it's your turn to stand in the left edge, where certain death awaits. Much higher chance of that person running, which can easily cause the entire unit to rout- especially considering if the first guy runs, someone else needs to take the left edge.
@@user-rw3kw7wx7e but units don't die replenishment doesn't cost money
The skaven just want to steal each others kills.
@@MouldMadeMind lol, most lore accurate explanation tbh
I mean to be fair its probably really difficult to achieve that sort of cohesion, especially among 32 different weapon teams. And these are skaven we're talking about, who struggle with cohesion at the best of times.
Never thought I would hear someone utter 'How many trolls can it penetrate?'
I know a guy, He's penetrated way more than four trolls.
6:08 the commentary style description of the cannon's ass-shots were golden
Rectal bleeding. Jesus Christ.
Yo omg I actually spit my coffee a lil
That moment, just made me love this channel lol
@@goobermcboogerballs1420 made me subscribe from laughing.
You should test the mortars again against a stationary far target, as the dwarves approach the target areas approach the same value, where as far away the areas are massively different
Yea i deffinitly thing this was cuased by the approach, since as you said, both values are approcing the same pooint, so the bonus will get less effective.
I think another factor is the attacking dwarf trying to dodge the shots. You can't dodge a shot that is so inaccurate noone knows where it will land.
Agreed. Definitely useful to know that chevrons aren't important to mortars firing into charging massed infantry--that's mortars' day job. But maybe it matters more in an artillery duel, or if you're trying to snipe Gelt off his stupid flying horse.
It seems like the easiest test is just to manually dump the entire ammo capacity on the ground at various ranges and see where they actually land. Gonna test this.
@@themekahippie991 how did it go?
For the lack of difference between accuracy buffed units and non-accuracy buffed units, it's simply because the difference becomes much less significant the closer the ennemy unit gets.
Higher accuracy means the unit will remain accurate at longer distances, but when the ennemy units get close enough, the advantages of higher accuracy drop drastically.
In your test against the dwarf units, for example, if the dwarf units had remained at long distance instead of closing in, the upgraded mortar would've performed better, but since they were getting closer and closer, the accuracy difference shrank rapidly, leading to this result.
So accuracy bonuses are much more effective if you're planning on shooting on targets that remain quite far away, like ballistas or eagle bolt throwers brought to snipe ennemy artillery, on these the accuracy upgrade will be a plus, but the value of the accuracy bonus will become insignificant when shooting at close targets
Size of the target also helps. If the target area is smaller then the unit, its hard to miss. Single model targets might make for a better target to find out how many hits are accidents actualy aimed at the guy next to him. Like, how many shots miss and instead hit Morghur, who was just strolling around peacefully...
Also it could have to do with where it aims at the unit, like his last point. If all 3 mortars are aiming for one spot, and they all hit that spot, theyre wasting damage. But if theyre hitting around that spot, the damage could be spread out.
14:00 outrider plugging the archer in the back of the head
Z did say "at the risk of safety". He never said safety from what.
Pretty tough dude to get shot in the back of the head at that range and keep going
@@delboythethird1200 haha ye that bois just gets back up like he only took a slap
Don't sleep with the outrider's wife.
"Accidents" can happen.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that
6:58 Skyhawks (Yvresse Mistwalker Unit): *Looks around nervously* "Yeah penetrating arrows would just be absurd haha..."
Alith anar appears in the distance*
@@alfyanrauf6616 Arrows don't penetrate he lied, and Anar laughed.
@@alfyanrauf6616 Alith Anar counts as artillery, I think, as I remember him being able to target towers and walls.
Was just about to work on homework, perfect timing :)
this comment is so relatable
Understanding unit stats is homework in its own
Hope it was the study of missile ballistics 👍
Yo seriously. Dude saving lives out here.
This IS homework. I have work to do.
"Tsss, I have hundreds of hours on this game. This video is obviously useless for me"
Pressing alt with artillery allow you were to shoot AND you have a circle which represents accuracy...
"Dawn you Zerkovich, once again you learn me something usefull than I never notice despite the fact that it was before my eyes all this time !" (That and the others info, great video as usual)
Srsly, at the moment he explained the circles I was like " NO FUCKING WAY!" Hundreds of hours ingame and I never noticed that.
I suspect that accuracy can be a bit of a double edged sword at the highest end of it. My recent Wood Elf campaign I noticed that quite often all of the Waywatchers within a single unit would shoot a single soldier in the enemy unit that I targeted, wasting most of the shots. Obviously if you're too inaccurate you won't hit anything, but without the spread the targeting algorithm they use can stack shots on a single guy and waste damage output.
I recently discovered that you can put your handgunners behind your Frontline in a chequered pattern so that they can keep firing while not being attacked since the AI units get caught on the Frontline units despite the massive gaps.
I've put almost 2000 hours into this game and I learned A LOT from this video. Great job Z!
It's terrible that CA hides so many stats & gameplay elements from its players.
14:05 Loved it, that the bowmen got shot in the back by friendly fire right on the word "safety" -- nice one
Super useful info. Here, have some timestamps:
0:00 - introduction
0:20 - missile unit types overview
1:28 - range weapon damage
2:53 - explosive damage
4:24 - penetration cap
7:13 - range
10:05 - calibration distance demonstration (artillery)
11:09 - calibration distance demonstration ("infantry")
14:05 - accuracy and marksmenship bonus
17:16 - accuracy testing
20:10 - shields
21:35 - projectile types
22:58 - bonus versus large
23:15 - high ground
23:32 - unit angling
That edge trick is super cheeky. This will come in handy.
12:40 This doesn't look like a fun experiment to be CHOSEN into
Boooo
"No arrow is gonna go through one man and into a second one is it now, that would be ridiculous."
Legolas: and I took that personally
Can't believe it took this long for this video to be made. Thank you, that was so fucking necessary!
Chevrons on ranged is probably pretty useful in campaign and in sieges where you can maintain a degree of range with the AI. Might be worth testing static ranged targets, though again that's going to be pretty rare in skirmish.
Literally just started a wood elves campaign!! Perfect timing
WayWatchers were nerfed by nerfing the talent of kuronos hero trait. Go treemen, they were buffed by adding phisical resistence, which also blocks phisical type ammo.
You have to take into consideration overkill with units that are highly accurate. Overall, you will get more shots off with an upgraded ranged unit, but the chance of overkill is higher. So picking the correct targets is all that more important if the investment to upgrade them is made. It also is worth while to note that this allows you to switch and do more reliable spread out damage to an opponents army (with artillary).
If you compare jezzails or rattling gun RoR to standard the RoR are SIGNIFICANTLY better at killing single entities than their nonupgraded counter parts.
It is also noteworthy that with jezzails you are wasting ammunition on unit that has more than 65 models or so because of the amount of overkill.
You an press Alt to manually target the artillery? thats amazing ....
Dude I piratically learned how to play TWW on your channel. You still kick out the best vids to help new and older players. I salute you for your awesome work man. I'm not new to the Total War Franchise yet I still learn more from your channel than I've learned in all the tutorials I've been through playing the Total War franchise. Again, awesome work man. Congrats.
Interesting! I'm playing savage orcs right now and I couldn't help but wonder what the point of ranged units with "poor accuracy" was (orc archers)... I guess I just need to use them at closer range for them to get value, which fits the theme as a bonus
I heard somewhere before (do not remember where), that units with better accuracy are more accurate at shooting area where the target was at the moment of projectile going out of the shooting unit model not at the moment of hitting the target. So units with higher accuracy will be very effective vs standing targets, but a lot less accurate against moving targets.
Still, blackpowder weapons fire in a straight line, sort off, so if they only walk towards you, it should not matter. Arrows and mortars on the other hand...
Man I realy love your videos, your a saint for giving us all those minute details tips and explanations ! Thanks a lot for your work !
Here is one of my discovery in WH 3 : I did some testing and found out that missiles get negated by physical resistance (PR) along with missile resistance (MR). The catch though is with magic missiles, they DON'T get negated by PR but they DO get negated by MR.
Which actualy gives meaning to them, since MR negates ALL missiles, they still get benefits against PR.
So here you go focusing an enemy who has high physical resistance (like a ghost units) will shread them when using magical arrows, while regular arrows will do very low damage to them.
About Dwarf blowing : maybe you can't really see the differences between unranked and ranked shooters because the weapons land zone is mostly always smaller than the target unit, and the target is slow... You should try with a smaller & faster target, Minotaurs for example
That accuracy buff info is game changing.
'Blowing up some dwarfs' well that's definitely going in the book. In bold.
That angle trick is cheeky. Minimize models exposed to maximize ammo wasted by overkills. It's even worse with some breath attacks or magic missiles that end up clipping a few models instead of smacking a unit.
As a side-note, widening the formation of the missile unit should make it less likely to happen (increases the angle at which the target needs to be for all entities to aim for the edge)
6:34 yo my boy in the front was already falling over and still took another cannon ball stuck straight to his face xD
this correlation between better results at close range for range troops has actually been present in all TW games that Im aware of since at least M2TW. Same as fighting better downhill (including extending effective shooting range), bonuses for light infantry in forests etc.
@Zerkovich another amazing Secret Stats video, thank you for these! I missed this when it came out, just came across it while doing some research, so glad I did!
"No arrow is going to go through one man and into a second one, is it now? That would be a little bit ridiculous." *legolas has entered the chat*
Gunner/Archer heroes and lords definitely penetrate infantry with their arrows, though. Had no idea about a lot of the other stuff, great info!
Thought heroes and lords were more about splash damage? Never rewatched a battle in slow-motion, might be worth trying...
These sorts of advanced videos are what I'm most excited about. Keep it up, and don't forget about us experienced viewers!
5:21
A solid croch shot from a bloody artillery's unit. RIP troll and all the possible future generations.
That shot easily deserves a 10 turn debuff of +100% increase in training time for trolls on the enemy faction.
Great video. I've poured many 1000s of hours into TotalWar since the first Shogun came out, and there were still nuances in this vid I was unaware of - well done and thanks!
This was one of the most interesting video I've seen so far. Thanks for the amazing content!
Thanks Zerk, love this kind of mechanic videos!!!
Zerkovich - pretty much the only Total War peep I watch/listen to these days. Great vid dude, thanks!
Great video mate, hundreds of hours and I've never noticed the expertise bonus playing such a large part of accuracy. Always assumed it impacted on damage and reload speed the most.
Actualy, the damage boost is per 10 seconds because of the faster reload. Check their unit card, damage per shot remains the same.
Zerkovich: "No arrow would go through more than one infantry unit, that would just be ridiculous."
Alith Anar: *grins evilly*
Another one of Zerk´s awesome tutorials!! Mate, the work you put on these videos... its freakin awesome. I always enjoy and learn a lot of things, thx for so much work for da community, you rock dude!
I swear this game can be deep if you go searching
Always bringing good info, thanks Zerkovich.
Amazing video. Well explained and well demonstrated.
About 1000 hours in the game and this man teaching me things I never knew. Calibration and how to see it? Honestly never had a clue.
Always love it when I see a long WH II video from you in my feed
Awesome video! Clearly explained and demonstrated! Got yourself a sub : )
That last bit of info was very helpful. Thanks Z
*me after watching this*: "Ah yes, I must keep my enemy within the calibration distance"
*me in the heat of a battle*: JUST SHOOT 'EM!!!!
great video as always!
Awesome video man! Love the analysis
Absolutely stellar video mate, helped explain things very well, I'm off to cheese with some dwarfen guns now
Great video. That's a lot of useful knowledge!
While all this info is appreciated, I have the ask, how the hell did he find all this?
Probably by looking in the game files for the logic (the code).
That's some sweet old game science. What we've really all been waiting for!
Good content, learned alot from these videos, thanks man, keep it up
Another reason for units taking less damage when off-centre from a unit shooting them is that a lot of the individuals in the missile unit will be aiming for the same guy in the enemy's unit. So the first shot in a volley might kill that guy, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc will have no effect because he's already dead.
Weapons like Cannons, Hellblaster Volley Guns and Organ Guns are especially prone to this. When only 4 guns are firing in a volley, every shot that is missed/wasted on dead enemies is a disaster.
This video is incredibly helpful. Thank you.
Thanks Zerk. Your videos really help beginners like me.
I never knew that Master Engineers improved accuracy by that much, that difference is absolutely insane, holy shit!
24:16 Never tought I would be using my World of Tanks knowledge this way...
Long video but I just learned a lot of things! Great job 👍👍
The buffs to accuracy probably would show more impact if the battles stay at a longer range, which for pretty much every battle won't be the case.
Génial d'apprendre de nouvelles techniques comme ça !
500h in this game and I knew next to nothing about Ranged Attacks.
I didn't even know you can manual aim with alt. Thats so good to know...
i noticed at 22:49, normal ushabti great bow arrows can't pierce through more than 1 infantry model, even if they're on the less tanky side. For smaller infantry(goblins, skaven, humans, elves, undead), it would be nice for their arrows to be able to penetrate through at least 2 models. Against tankier infantry(orcs, chosen, temple guard), great bows should only be able to kill 1 per projectile.
Hmmm, here's an idea for another top 10. The top ten strongest weak-ass infantry. Is it high elf spearmen? is it bleakswords? Is it zombies? Is it (TK) skelingtons? Is it poopy peasents? Is it gobbos? Is it skinks? Is it marauders? Is it Skaven slaves? Winner not based on who shatters who, but who gets the best post-match damage value. Also, no chasing of routed units and allow units to rally and come back to the fight.
6:57 Wrong. There is a unit that can shoot arrows and penetrate more than one enemy. It's the skyhawks, recruitable by the Yvresse faction (IE eltharion the grim).
Also, i love how they added damage counters but you still use enemy's health to measure things. XD
Also Alith Anar, but those are special cases, a legendary lord and a unit unique to 1 faction only in campaign.
@@Xeonzs IIRC it's an artillery shot. It explodes too, and you can shoot towers with it.
@@Salderosan99 oh I never realized that, still cool, but still a very specific case only for those 2 units, just meant to say that's probably why he left them out of the vid.
@@Xeonzs nah. No reason to not say it in a video that goes insanely into detail on the topic
I like zerkovich's videos but he's known to half ass things from time to time
About the Rank 9 Mortars, it is a siege weapon - higher acc for them matters alot when you siege a settlement with walls and you need to clear out high value targets before you move in, Cannons are okay to get down towers and walls but provide nearly no other value in a siege battle then that; but out perform mortars by a good chunk when it comes to open battlefield devastation - atleast thats how i feel about it
So all accuracy buffs do is make units better at significant range. Very interesting! I didn't know this and often used Warlock Engineers to boost the max range of cannons and weapon teams, I didn't know that the accuracy boost is most effective when you're buffing units you're planning to shoot at max range
Accuracy is less important the more models there are in a unit so there is like a catchup mechanic inherent in the accuracy test. More of the explosive damage will go to waste the fewer units there are or the thinner the unit is. Nice video 10/10 unironically loved it
sometimes it's benificial for a unit to be innaccurate, 4 mortar shells hitting the identical spot in a blob of infantry is doing less damage than 3 shells spread across it.
Great info! Thanks, man =).
This is like one of those "How many blocks of butter does it take to stop a bullet" videos.
"How many Skaven Slaves does it take to stop a bullet?"
Answer: STOP bullets?
For the test with shooting at a angled enemy, I wonder how the missiles would work end on - shooting down the line. I wonder if the issue with the more angled enemy was that it was starting to approach firing down the line, so missiles would have more chances to hit and would have less chance of 'overkill' , where multiple archers fire at the same enemy.
Accuracy as shown in the Jezzail v Chosen test is not quite so telling. Shoot into a crowd and you're gonna hit someone, but if you had three unbreakable units, you'd see that when there's only a couple entities left, accuracy matters a lot. When towers shoot at unbreakable units in defensive sieges. At first, bolts are scoring hits and kills most of the time, doing massive damage, just like any unit. But when the unit has 10% or so entities left, damage slows to a trickle and so you are better off using towers to hit units with most of their entities left and letting melee units mop up almost dead troops
Huh, never realized that range units would target the closest model. Seems like it might be abusable if running a melee unit at enemy range. A slight angle to keep the shield block chance, and make them target a corner. Similar to tacking when sailing.
Excellent video as always
for the focusing on forward edge of the unit part at the end... I'd guess that it is because the angle is so deep that the penetration was actually clipping more units than the only slightly tilted, but that would imply that arrows do actually punch through... OR, perhaps because the ones that miss their 'intended' target have more chances to hit his buddy to the rear of him?
It has to be the second theory since as we just learned arrows and shot do not penetrate at all.
Either way it is true, the steeper you cut a rectangle the longer the resulting site will be.
Not sure if it's SFO specific or not, but Ushabti Great Bows have some insane penetration stats there. The are a fantastic siege attacker, as they can ark their projectile just enough to hit units on the walls, but they fire flat enough that the massive arrow penetrates and kills nearly every entity in the unit. They absolutely delete units up on walls.
I believe SFO fiddles with splash attacks. Ushabti GBs (my fav unit in game) is good in vanilla and absolutely wrecks in SFO.
Excellent video. Subbed.
Jezzails are probably too accurate for accuracy bonus to matter.
Need something just inaccurate enough to miss but not too inaccurate to not matter. maybe peasant bows?
great video, never knew how those mechanics worked before.
Very very informative!
But what I saw in your experiments and you didn't mentioned is, that there is certain number of shots that land in the exact spot of the attack. That implies, that there is also a garantied number of shot in a volley that will hit no matter the calibration stat.
The jazzail experiment couldn't show differences, because the missing shots hit the unit next or behind the targeted one, a hero as target would have given more results I guess.
it is worth noting that in the chevron accuracy test with the Jezzails the upgraded ones killed more models than the un upgraded ones despite the actual damage done being pretty much the same. At least for the test shown.
Very good guide, here´s some support
damn, this is something I came across discovered on my own as I was playing but didn't quite sure what it means, nice work
Awesome info!
Every time you upload a bloody video I need to go play more Warhammer!
That was great AND informative. I especially liked the "Jesus Christ!" after the giant got shot in the arse with a cannon.
Sometimes my arse feels like it's been shot by a cannon!
I've been playing this game for years, but I always learn something from Z's videos
On the last test with the Empire mortars it's a bit of a stretch to get an average out of just 3 examples like this.
The accuracy (over distance) on them is ridiculously low to begin with and the Dwarves get to run at them at full steam. There are so many variables that go into those mortars' percieved accuracy that you'll need to run at least a hundred or more simulations to get any kind of trustworthy average.
Now what I REALLY missed in this video was one more test with the mortars: take 2 units of Dwarven warriors and 2 units of Empire swords/spearmen, have them duke it out at min/mid/max range of the mortars and see what happens then.
I love Darkelves, i suck at using Darkshards/Shades. This helped a lot thanks
Great informative video.
Watching trolls go flying is hilarious.
I appreciate this. I knew a lot of it, but specifically the accuracy section I always wondered about. I also didnt know the specifics of what counted as what type of weapon i figured shields worked on globadiers, but I guess not.
This series is immensely helpful and cool, this is something i think that was supposed to be covered by CA in some manner at least. I understand that it might bee too much to cover in tutorials and blogposts, but goddamn it, you should at least give some info to players how your game actually works in some official way. That being said, keep up the good work man!
oh, there is the information. Zerkovich never disappointed
Nice video!. Regarding accuracy, is it possible that its more helpful when trying to shoot single entities as opposed to a stack of infantry, since missing 1 dwarf warrior means a good chance itll land on another in the stack?