Thank you again for sorting my disaster! Great Xmas present, since losing this army would have totally sucked since I have nothing in that area. Not at the stage where I build doomstacks either. Spitting the AI 4 ways was very impressive! I honestly did try a fair few times just wasn't good enough with my own micro/positioning/tactics, and never thought to split my artillery away from the rest so generally they just slammed into me even if I delayed it since I got spotted more easily. Gives me some ideas for how to use early-mid game Empire in general now...
Much of his skill, and I say this without the slightest hint of irony or criticism, is understanding how the computer opponent works. Most people, myself included, would fail with these battles as we don't have the depth of knowledge of how to troll the computer opponent. Legend makes it look easy, which, while sometimes it is (oh, god, watching the computer feed units into mass missile fire on entirely irrelevant walls in sieges makes my brain hurt, LOL), often it isn't. This one was quite fun to watch. It's a shame CA has never really built an effective computer player. Not easy, I know, but at the least it ought not be so readily possible to bamboozle it into stupid, aimless charging in all directions and never sticking to ONE plan. I'd really love to be able to sit with the team who designs that aspect of it so as to try to understand how they've been doing it. I don't accept it couldn't be improved significantly. Of course it also comes down to resources, and it would appear CA is happy not to improve it because people keep buying their games despite this rather central flaw. Cheers
I would recommend halberdiers over spearmen in general, they can hold for ages against a lot of units and have charge resistance, armourpiercing AND anti-large all in one. Also IMO you should always have at least 2 cavalry (fast units) in every army, I often go for 3-4. You are also rather heavy on ranged units (missiles + artillery) compared to stuff that can hold the line, you could replace 2 crossbows with a cavalry and a halberd unit for example :)
@@forrestmcgee7631 Yeah it's way less powerful in 3 than in 2, but I was just conditioned to see him viewing lightning strike and campaign movement speed as the two "If you missed these, you ruined your character build" options haha
Pyrrhic victory. Pyrrhus said '' one more victory like this, and we'll be lost '' here if Karl has only victories like this he'll paint the entire map in Reikland colors, no problem. Oh well.
Pyrrhus was notorious for his low casualty replenishment rate, even in the allied territory of Epirus. Not even global recruitment would have been fast enough to save him either.
My best guess is it was Lord/Hero health that determined that? Go into another battle without healing, and the leaders would be useless to you like that. So does anyone know if it's determined by damage dealt/damage taken as a ratio, or current strength regardless of the opponent's condition? I feel it does make sense to say it's a Pyrrhic victory based on the chances of winning a second battle straight after with the condition of the army at the moment of victory (which is moot with replenishment rates in-game being much higher than IRL), since to myself the real life equivalent of having 100/15000 health is close to flatlining and needing defibrillating 😅
@@LustyLichKing haha very true, which is why I think it's based on how close the army is to receiving serious casualties if it fought again in it's current state (based on health points), I'd be worried for that Warrior Priest for instance
@@PG-gp5xp That's... not what Pyrrhic means at all? A pyrrhic victory is when you won, but the cost was so high, it was not worth it. You won the battle, but may as well have lost due to the casualties you took
As you can see I will literally pay for more "Strats over Stats", with as much of your insight as possible. I'm an experienced gamer but Total War feels like it's more artistic advanced strategy elude me.
The Mortars and the Skaven had a Christmas Truce, but the Mortars realized they don't actually know what a "christmas" is, and the Skaven were planning on an attack regardless.
random tip for combat: To get around restrictions like withdrawal being grayed out in combat(active melee, being shot at), if you select another unit that CAN withdraw along with your actual target, both of them will be able to withdraw. You can then cancel the withdraw on only the other target you used to unlock it. Last I checked, this also worked with withdrawing from ambush battle without actually reaching the box. This works similarly as the summon faster attack that uses summon selection via UI with another unit to make the summon attack while coming out of summon animation.
I heard so many people arguing about cheesing in warhamer 3 but this is the class of videos that show how to use ur army and the terrain at its perfection
Oh of course, what Legend does in the "saving a disaster battle" series is very useful for informing players, given the number of hours of playtime that stand to be lost, but it is thrilling to watch the armies being employed in detachments like this
After 250+ hour's I became very good in Battles, defeat enemy when the auto match result is "Close defeat", and some of the rewards I belong to YOU, your tipps and videos. Thanks to you I'm a really confident general and winning online battles match after match! Keep going!
@@SkavenEnjoyerYesYes try melee factions, now it is satisfying to play. I can't get myself into missile-based factions, line of sight problems and following orders problems too obnoxious
@@Ax_Dj0 you're correct this is why I enjoy Chaos so much these days especially Slaanesh and Khorne because of this reason, ranged should be balanced and melee is finally viable in this game.
Mortars lob, they are barely affected by line of sight. What happened is that by constantly telling them what to attack they would start moving. They stopped firing at one point because the designated target moved out of range and they weren’t on hold position so they started moving again. For ranged units in 3 it’s really best to get a good position, tell them to hold position, and then leave them be so they don’t go stupid. If a unit is jumped you only work with that unit. It took a while for 2 of the mortars to fire because they were trying to line up again with the one whose guys were getting back on their mortars. It’s tough and annoying but knowing how to work with stupid will get you far in life, not just this game.
I am a bit of a spectacle nut, so would like to see the occasional charge up close when it's safe and you're mopping up the enemy, I love strategy games but one of the best things about total war is being able to switch between top down strategic view and close ups for the rush of battle, otherwise a perfect video - Super glad to see that legitimate strategy and order of battle is still viable in "Total Blob" 😅 Was beginning to think hero cheese, doomstacks and turtling were the only consistently successful strats worth using against needless A.I. buffs (bit of an exaggeration now since the A.I. does improve somewhat based on difficulty compared to, say Rome 2 on release, but it s not what it used to be)
25:00 The most sensical I have been able to come up with through all these years is that pyrhic has nothing to do with value, it has to do with losing 50% or more of your own balance of power. The warrior priest withdrew, 3 artillery withdrew, crossbows fired over half their ammo, karl franz had lost almost 2/3 hp, some of the infantry and the reiksguard lost a sizeable chunk of hp. So I think you just barely slipped over that 50% balance lost, and got a 'pyrhic'.
@@randomrandom9570 well I don't know how the exact numbers go, but the main things involved appear to be: -the factor of relative strength (if the opponent has a weaker army to begin with, a heroic victory is (near) impossible -the amount of balance of power (%) lost on the enemy side -the amount of balance of power (%) lost on your side Ammunition spent counts as balance of power, so for units where most of the balance is in the ammo it can even be possible to have a pyrhic victory (or even lose) without losing a single hitpoint. The same happens when you (for example) use bearsleds, use up all ammo, get a ton of damage and lose no models, it'll still count as a pyrrhic victory because the models themselves aren't part of value calculations, only the hp and ammo is.
They really need to fix the ranged units not firing. Had the same problem on a winnable battle with peasant archers but they just refused to fire no matter what. Seems like a line of sight targeting bug - makes you want to slam your face against the keyboard lol. Wp, very fun battle to watch, learned a lot!
I dont know if you know this Legend (i might be misinterpreting something here as im not an expert on the ins and outs of youtube) but this video seems to only appear in the playlists section but not your actual videos section of the channel nor on the new videos list for subscribers. Anyway thanks for the great content!
Yeah just a heads up, I don't know if it was a patch bug or something wrong with WH 3 but most ranged unites now simply will not shoot if there is ANYTHING obstructing their LoS, and that's not even just a little hill like here but I put some gunmen behind a wooden fence and they just sat there the whole battle while I yelled at them for not firing. The most irritating part of this though, is it's not consistent at all. Meaning sometimes they might still fire, sometimes only half of them fire, and sometimes they just stand there like that.
Defeat in detail. Often used alongside Defense in depth. Split up the larger invader into more manageable chunks by withdrawing in multiple directions and then achieving local superiority over those chunks one by one. Finish Motti Tactics are probably the pinnacle of the art.
I wish burning head was buffed Always a joy watching one of these videos. I know the best I can do is run alley guys in there then act confused when my army routs but what do you expect from someone who plays chaos and likes perpetual war, I'll just respawn another army next turn.
If Legend Of Total War was a real commander in Warhammer, then the Empire would have stopped the End Times singlehandedly. He'd even beat the Skaven with their tactics!
I agree with legend that lore of fire can feel frustrating to play with the changes to The Burning Head. I would like to point out that The Burning Head (upgraded), is actually a really good choice on this map in a few occasions. I've found that the damage is much more likely to kill rather than wound chaff models and the sheer length of the trail is ridiculous. There is an opportunity for a sick kiss shot at 3:45 and 4:10 while they are forced out. A bouncing shot at 6:15. Don't get me wrong I'm not critical of this battle. WP on Legend's part picking them apart with K Franz. This is exactly the army anybody who has played Empire has had to save from a disaster so perfect. Only Legend would charge a wizard into Throt alone on purpose just for that value win. Super risky if they got caught there. WP once again.
With many TW3 spells it'd be happy to be able to cast them for cheaper and get a reduced effect, like a shorter trail burning head at 30% less magic but similar DPS. The cost floor is just too high and the pool too small in vanilla, unless you play a specific LL that has cost reductions (like Balthasar Geld with his metal bombardment spell, for example).
the good old "refusing to shoot" bug. still happens to this day and can happen with any ranged unit. its single handedly the most enraging bug, especially when youre armies are ranged based. i noticed it happens a lot on badlands maps in particular these days, but has a chance of happening anywhere
Honestly i have the most fun using combined arms crap stacks with tactics and in the long run it's the most efficient way of running your campaign allowing you to manage a much larger front line with sufficient grayzone.
I've noticed since thrones of decay that units don't shoot anymore. Happens to all missile units, you order them to shoot but sometimes at random they just stop
Man, I've got some battles I've been stuck on and campaigns I've been absolutely grinding my way through with lots of save scumming that I've been too embarrassed to send because I see you and other RUclips TW guys breeze through similar tough spots on harder difficulties. But maybe I should just humble myself, toss a campaign your way, and learn how to git gud... I've got a Tzeentch campaign currently that's turned into a total nightmare because Teclis caught me out of position while I was dealing with Oxyotl, and is now ploughing through the entire east end of the Southern Wastes.
The guns not shooting a single bullet until the battle was over was beyond infuriating. Also the battle results are a joke lol, some times i kill 3 stacks using only lords and heroes and finish full health with 0 casualties just to get a "close victory".
Yeah that happens when lords/heros take up a significant portion of your balance of power and you use up alot of their heal cap. Even if you end at full health, it's still counting all the health you healed as lost health
what would you have done different if there had been more ranged units it shoot the wizard? also I notice nobody who makes videos pauses during combat, is that looked down upon or something?
I've noticed that for some reason artillery in this game more so then 2 think they must move if anything changes. So if you give an attack order? Reform. Target dead? Reform. Told to stop? Oh must reform now. Inching ever forward every time. Never mind other ranged issues where units with clear line of sight just.... decide that no, they won't pull the trigger. As a fan of ranged combat my self, this is very annoying and has lead to many battle redos.
I can only do these sort of tactics with pausing, and using slow mo. I just don't have the dexterity to do it in real time. It's insane that anyone can do this sort of thing!
It just comes with practice my friend! Try creating a rule where you can't pause and try to only do your micro in slow-mo. After you get proficient at that, you can step it up to normal speed. Heck, even practice some easy battles at 2x speed in the "quick battle" tab.
Hey Legend, loved the video, it's stuff like this that really makes me glad to be a strategy gamer as I also have such an appreciation for military strategy and history. Haven't had a chance to watch the streams so you may already do this, but do you use the same techniques in your own campaigns as you do the disaster battles? I feel like you've got "The Cheese" down to a fine art at this point and would like to see more gameplay that reflects the strategies of whatever faction/Lord you happening to be playing at that time, would you be up for it? It does mean thinking and acting differently with each species, so that could be quite interesting to see, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this
He stopped streaming a bit ago to focus on videos but there's a ton of old streams on his channel you could watch, on just about every faction and LL imaginable
Usually Legend doesn't need to fight such large scale disaster battles, since he also has very strong control and forward thinking in his campaign map gameplay. Disaster battles are often the result of mismanaging campaign map stage. Make sure to subscribe and catch his end of year 24h charity live stream it's prolly gonna be a "this is total war" campaign, where the rule is to immediately declare war with every single empire that he encounters!
@@skeenerbug601 But that's not to say he can't pre-film any that he'd like to share and commentate on, he knows his shit with this game and it would be great to learn more from him
@@adriankoch964 That's very true, he knows what he's doing so he plans ahead. Still, that doesn't mean he doesn't have to apply conventional military strats in battles as a teaching tool, or RP as an LL and fight in ways loreful to a given faction 😄
As someone who surrounded a stronger unit with my weaker skeleton boys with Tomb Kings, and would still lose or barely win, I will never understand how it's not about stats
I know that cheese is usually nescessary in disaster battles, but this type of video, just showing your skill in strategy and playing the game how it was intended is much more entertaining.
All ranged units seem to have this issue in w3, I have had issues with even archer stacks not firing when ordered - rendering autofire only. .. its total aids.
Hey legend any tips for defending minor settlements as dwarfs but against a cathay because they have those sky junks and rocket batteries and grand cannons with 440 range or something like that, seems no matter where i stand to stop there infantry they can beat me by just artillery on my defensive positions by the time there army gets to me im toast
Do you think it was because they didnt have vision with the mortars? obvs it didnt used to work like that but they started firing again when the units moved away and presumably into vision. Maybe just bugged but just a thought
Do you still stream I used to see you stream a lot during the morning (my time) but I haven't seen one for a while now. Love the content keep up the good work.
Hi Legend and merry xmas See I always noticed and figured if things like mortars fail to shoot as they did here, giving them a move order and/or off-onning fire at will and stuff has some resetting rejiggle effect that helps them return to normal function. What do you make of that?
For me CTDs scale proportionally with number of active mods. Vanilla CTDs mostly when loading into battles for me, but thats rare now. Still quicksave before every battle and use ample rolling autosave slots, esp with active mods.
Agreed the Pyrrhíc was bs. Only explanation I can think of is the mortars somehow counting as lost and perhaps karl at half health (since he was such a major part of the balance of power?). Mb bit of the Sigmar Priest as well. Still stupid of course
Oh, classic good old Total War... Units won't shoot just because. When I learned to play this game, in my very first campaign, it drove mad as hell. Like wtf, what "tactics" and "planning" we are talking if I never know what to expect from my troops? What the bs is this game? Since those days I played hundreds of hours and learned something about line-of-sight mechanics, and that terrain is not that flat as it looks from above... but as we see here, even the literal all-knowing god of this game can't guarantee that your troops will simply shoot when you need them. Because it's Total War, my boy.
I'm just transitioning from WH2 TW to Warhammer 3. Total War 3 Battle Maps are so EXTREMELY FREAKING TINY most of the time you have no choice but frontal assault. Especially most of the Cathay Maps. I had 3 Cathay maps in a row where I couldn't simply line up my infantry from flank to flank in a normal formation because the deployment zones were so narrow. These were OPEN TERRAIN maps! Once the Battle started I tried to get my cav "on the flanks" and ran into the out of bounds lines on the left and right flank. So basically the enemy infantry line was lined up from one boundary to the other in a normal formation 2 ranks deep. Tiny, crappy, lazily done maps in TW3. Total trash. Many of the WH3 TW maps are about 1/4 the size of Napoleon TW maps. WTF happened to CA?
That is the thing about total war for me you can make the meta army and over power the ai with auto resolves like a civ game but then there are moments against all odds you have your boys get stuck in and pull out the heroic victory when normally in civ its just an automatic loss. Sorry I've been trying to get my friend on total war rather than civ :}
Playing as VampCounts, you can get a pyrrhic victory with zero end-of-battle casualties... Because you used up your winds of magic. It's ridiculous, really.
The after battle rating system is pants on head re***ded. That battle was the very OPPOSITE of Pyrrhic: you had a crushing victory where the balance of forces is very much in your favour should there be another battle. You'd think CA might fix it out of embarrassment if nothing else, but apparently they don't mind it generating assessments so idiotic it seems to be largely run by a skewed RNG system. To add insult to injury, of course, it's that rating that determines EXP and rewards if I'm not mistaken. 🤬 Great, isn't it? 🤣
I just wanted to pick up the game again, but the ranged units ignoring orders is an absolute dealbreaker for me. I have to be able to trust them with following orders. If orders make my units less effective, i might as well just watch them do their thing or watch your videos. The game is not worth playing like this
Thank you again for sorting my disaster! Great Xmas present, since losing this army would have totally sucked since I have nothing in that area. Not at the stage where I build doomstacks either.
Spitting the AI 4 ways was very impressive! I honestly did try a fair few times just wasn't good enough with my own micro/positioning/tactics, and never thought to split my artillery away from the rest so generally they just slammed into me even if I delayed it since I got spotted more easily. Gives me some ideas for how to use early-mid game Empire in general now...
You've tried so hard and got so far
But in the end it doesn't even matter
You had to fall to lose it all
But in the endtimes it doesn't even matter
Much of his skill, and I say this without the slightest hint of irony or criticism, is understanding how the computer opponent works. Most people, myself included, would fail with these battles as we don't have the depth of knowledge of how to troll the computer opponent.
Legend makes it look easy, which, while sometimes it is (oh, god, watching the computer feed units into mass missile fire on entirely irrelevant walls in sieges makes my brain hurt, LOL), often it isn't. This one was quite fun to watch.
It's a shame CA has never really built an effective computer player.
Not easy, I know, but at the least it ought not be so readily possible to bamboozle it into stupid, aimless charging in all directions and never sticking to ONE plan.
I'd really love to be able to sit with the team who designs that aspect of it so as to try to understand how they've been doing it. I don't accept it couldn't be improved significantly.
Of course it also comes down to resources, and it would appear CA is happy not to improve it because people keep buying their games despite this rather central flaw.
Cheers
I think the most surprising part of this entire video is hearing the phrase "Ok, he didn't get lightning strike, that's fine".
I would recommend halberdiers over spearmen in general, they can hold for ages against a lot of units and have charge resistance, armourpiercing AND anti-large all in one.
Also IMO you should always have at least 2 cavalry (fast units) in every army, I often go for 3-4.
You are also rather heavy on ranged units (missiles + artillery) compared to stuff that can hold the line, you could replace 2 crossbows with a cavalry and a halberd unit for example :)
@@forrestmcgee7631 Yeah it's way less powerful in 3 than in 2, but I was just conditioned to see him viewing lightning strike and campaign movement speed as the two "If you missed these, you ruined your character build" options haha
Pyrrhic victory.
Pyrrhus said '' one more victory like this, and we'll be lost '' here if Karl has only victories like this he'll paint the entire map in Reikland colors, no problem.
Oh well.
Pyrrhus was notorious for his low casualty replenishment rate, even in the allied territory of Epirus. Not even global recruitment would have been fast enough to save him either.
My best guess is it was Lord/Hero health that determined that? Go into another battle without healing, and the leaders would be useless to you like that. So does anyone know if it's determined by damage dealt/damage taken as a ratio, or current strength regardless of the opponent's condition? I feel it does make sense to say it's a Pyrrhic victory based on the chances of winning a second battle straight after with the condition of the army at the moment of victory (which is moot with replenishment rates in-game being much higher than IRL), since to myself the real life equivalent of having 100/15000 health is close to flatlining and needing defibrillating 😅
@@LustyLichKing haha very true, which is why I think it's based on how close the army is to receiving serious casualties if it fought again in it's current state (based on health points), I'd be worried for that Warrior Priest for instance
its bs, phyrric victory is barely a victory, almost a draw. This was as clear as you can get a victory. I would say it was a heroic victory.
@@PG-gp5xp That's... not what Pyrrhic means at all? A pyrrhic victory is when you won, but the cost was so high, it was not worth it. You won the battle, but may as well have lost due to the casualties you took
As you can see I will literally pay for more "Strats over Stats", with as much of your insight as possible. I'm an experienced gamer but Total War feels like it's more artistic advanced strategy elude me.
The Mortars and the Skaven had a Christmas Truce, but the Mortars realized they don't actually know what a "christmas" is, and the Skaven were planning on an attack regardless.
I don't know what Christmas is, but Christmas time is here.
random tip for combat:
To get around restrictions like withdrawal being grayed out in combat(active melee, being shot at), if you select another unit that CAN withdraw along with your actual target, both of them will be able to withdraw. You can then cancel the withdraw on only the other target you used to unlock it. Last I checked, this also worked with withdrawing from ambush battle without actually reaching the box.
This works similarly as the summon faster attack that uses summon selection via UI with another unit to make the summon attack while coming out of summon animation.
Good tips!
"My tactics are working perfectly. Just need the artillery to fire at this unit cluser." AI: "DURP!"
Yeah we need to raise this with the devs, they seem to be pretty on it with making tweaks, think there's a place for that on the Discord
Haha a whole year later and they still haven’t done shit but throw overpriced DLC at our faces
I heard so many people arguing about cheesing in warhamer 3 but this is the class of videos that show how to use ur army and the terrain at its perfection
Oh of course, what Legend does in the "saving a disaster battle" series is very useful for informing players, given the number of hours of playtime that stand to be lost, but it is thrilling to watch the armies being employed in detachments like this
@@thebackup2121 yeah I have learn how to save my campaings thanks to Legend what a lad !
If abusing the AI with flyers and magic seems like true strategy you must love these games.
@@UrbanArmada well the game gives you the tools why not using them right ?
@@daxl505 don't bother with these people, they will argue no matter what
After 250+ hour's I became very good in Battles, defeat enemy when the auto match result is "Close defeat", and some of the rewards I belong to YOU, your tipps and videos.
Thanks to you I'm a really confident general and winning online battles match after match!
Keep going!
Golden rule of a battle:
- Kill what you can't defeat, Defeat what you can't kill.
Some strange logic I’m not seeing here
I translate it as shoot what your units can't fight and rout what you cant wipe out
@@dinosdaniel3508 there we go
Mfs trying to sound so philosophical instead of just killing mfs.
Good old Phyrrhic Victory at it again can't escape it not even in Warhammer 3 ^^
Looks like mortars were affected by line of sight issue
yeah loads of problems in this game in general, going to wait until late February with new patch (if it comes by CA slow snail pace)
It's the single reason I can't play this game anymore. If even mortars refuse to fire because of line of sight something is REALLY fucked up.
@@SkavenEnjoyerYesYes try melee factions, now it is satisfying to play. I can't get myself into missile-based factions, line of sight problems and following orders problems too obnoxious
@@Ax_Dj0 you're correct this is why I enjoy Chaos so much these days especially Slaanesh and Khorne because of this reason, ranged should be balanced and melee is finally viable in this game.
Mortars lob, they are barely affected by line of sight. What happened is that by constantly telling them what to attack they would start moving. They stopped firing at one point because the designated target moved out of range and they weren’t on hold position so they started moving again. For ranged units in 3 it’s really best to get a good position, tell them to hold position, and then leave them be so they don’t go stupid. If a unit is jumped you only work with that unit. It took a while for 2 of the mortars to fire because they were trying to line up again with the one whose guys were getting back on their mortars.
It’s tough and annoying but knowing how to work with stupid will get you far in life, not just this game.
I am a bit of a spectacle nut, so would like to see the occasional charge up close when it's safe and you're mopping up the enemy, I love strategy games but one of the best things about total war is being able to switch between top down strategic view and close ups for the rush of battle, otherwise a perfect video -
Super glad to see that legitimate strategy and order of battle is still viable in "Total Blob" 😅 Was beginning to think hero cheese, doomstacks and turtling were the only consistently successful strats worth using against needless A.I. buffs (bit of an exaggeration now since the A.I. does improve somewhat based on difficulty compared to, say Rome 2 on release, but it s not what it used to be)
If you drank every time a vortex spell goes in the opposite direction, you'd be dead
Vortex steering has to make a comeback.
They say that to eat the best cheese, you gotta first know how to milk the cow.
25:00 The most sensical I have been able to come up with through all these years is that pyrhic has nothing to do with value, it has to do with losing 50% or more of your own balance of power.
The warrior priest withdrew, 3 artillery withdrew, crossbows fired over half their ammo, karl franz had lost almost 2/3 hp, some of the infantry and the reiksguard lost a sizeable chunk of hp.
So I think you just barely slipped over that 50% balance lost, and got a 'pyrhic'.
... Doesn't ammo auto replenish after every fight? Why would using your ammo lower the victory type? LOL, weird game.
@@randomrandom9570 well I don't know how the exact numbers go, but the main things involved appear to be:
-the factor of relative strength (if the opponent has a weaker army to begin with, a heroic victory is (near) impossible
-the amount of balance of power (%) lost on the enemy side
-the amount of balance of power (%) lost on your side
Ammunition spent counts as balance of power, so for units where most of the balance is in the ammo it can even be possible to have a pyrhic victory (or even lose) without losing a single hitpoint.
The same happens when you (for example) use bearsleds, use up all ammo, get a ton of damage and lose no models, it'll still count as a pyrrhic victory because the models themselves aren't part of value calculations, only the hp and ammo is.
"Legend to the wall here" Ha!
Legend: I was planning on taking them out of the battle.
Mortars: Fine we won't shoot...haha
It is a pyrrhic victory if you count only valuable skaven.
This guy and napoleon would be either best friends or dire enemies
They really need to fix the ranged units not firing. Had the same problem on a winnable battle with peasant archers but they just refused to fire no matter what. Seems like a line of sight targeting bug - makes you want to slam your face against the keyboard lol.
Wp, very fun battle to watch, learned a lot!
Yeah we need to raise this with the devs, they seem to be pretty on it with making tweaks, think there's a place for that on the Discord
1 year later and they still haven’t done anything :)
I dont know if you know this Legend (i might be misinterpreting something here as im not an expert on the ins and outs of youtube) but this video seems to only appear in the playlists section but not your actual videos section of the channel nor on the new videos list for subscribers. Anyway thanks for the great content!
It takes time
straight up tactics make a better video than cheesy ones . more if you can please legend
Artillery not shooting is the bane of my existence as empire. Clear lines of sight during seige but no firing.. Does my head in.
Yeah just a heads up, I don't know if it was a patch bug or something wrong with WH 3 but most ranged unites now simply will not shoot if there is ANYTHING obstructing their LoS, and that's not even just a little hill like here but I put some gunmen behind a wooden fence and they just sat there the whole battle while I yelled at them for not firing. The most irritating part of this though, is it's not consistent at all. Meaning sometimes they might still fire, sometimes only half of them fire, and sometimes they just stand there like that.
Yeah we need to raise this with the devs, they seem to be pretty on it with making tweaks, think there's a place for that on the Discord
Defeat in detail. Often used alongside Defense in depth. Split up the larger invader into more manageable chunks by withdrawing in multiple directions and then achieving local superiority over those chunks one by one.
Finish Motti Tactics are probably the pinnacle of the art.
I wish burning head was buffed
Always a joy watching one of these videos. I know the best I can do is run alley guys in there then act confused when my army routs but what do you expect from someone who plays chaos and likes perpetual war, I'll just respawn another army next turn.
If Legend Of Total War was a real commander in Warhammer, then the Empire would have stopped the End Times singlehandedly.
He'd even beat the Skaven with their tactics!
Another battle that hand gunners used 0 ammo before end battle pops out. Really hope that fix these new range units issues and line of sight issues.
Yeah we need to raise this with the devs, they seem to be pretty on it with making tweaks, think there's a place for that on the Discord
When the mortars didn't shoot Legend started turning into a skaven.
I agree with legend that lore of fire can feel frustrating to play with the changes to The Burning Head.
I would like to point out that The Burning Head (upgraded), is actually a really good choice on this map in a few occasions. I've found that the damage is much more likely to kill rather than wound chaff models and the sheer length of the trail is ridiculous. There is an opportunity for a sick kiss shot at 3:45 and 4:10 while they are forced out. A bouncing shot at 6:15.
Don't get me wrong I'm not critical of this battle. WP on Legend's part picking them apart with K Franz. This is exactly the army anybody who has played Empire has had to save from a disaster so perfect. Only Legend would charge a wizard into Throt alone on purpose just for that value win. Super risky if they got caught there. WP once again.
With many TW3 spells it'd be happy to be able to cast them for cheaper and get a reduced effect, like a shorter trail burning head at 30% less magic but similar DPS. The cost floor is just too high and the pool too small in vanilla, unless you play a specific LL that has cost reductions (like Balthasar Geld with his metal bombardment spell, for example).
the good old "refusing to shoot" bug. still happens to this day and can happen with any ranged unit. its single handedly the most enraging bug, especially when youre armies are ranged based. i noticed it happens a lot on badlands maps in particular these days, but has a chance of happening anywhere
Honestly i have the most fun using combined arms crap stacks with tactics and in the long run it's the most efficient way of running your campaign allowing you to manage a much larger front line with sufficient grayzone.
I've noticed since thrones of decay that units don't shoot anymore. Happens to all missile units, you order them to shoot but sometimes at random they just stop
The specific tactic is "Defense in detail" officially.
I am really surprised the mortars didnt get menace below'd the AI seems to love to do that.
In almost every match I had played, for some reason, AI always senses if there are hidden troops and where!
That was an enjoyable watch. A good mixture of cheese and tactics.
With a sprinkle of derpy own unit behavoir to keep things spicy.
That was great to watch! A Heroic Victory in my book.
Man, I've got some battles I've been stuck on and campaigns I've been absolutely grinding my way through with lots of save scumming that I've been too embarrassed to send because I see you and other RUclips TW guys breeze through similar tough spots on harder difficulties. But maybe I should just humble myself, toss a campaign your way, and learn how to git gud... I've got a Tzeentch campaign currently that's turned into a total nightmare because Teclis caught me out of position while I was dealing with Oxyotl, and is now ploughing through the entire east end of the Southern Wastes.
Good intro to various tactical plays for the Total War battles. Keybinds are my main issue when it comes to them though.
No cheese? Am I in the wrong channel?
Somehow all my Karl Franz armies end up looking exactly like this one...
Tactics ftw!
The guns not shooting a single bullet until the battle was over was beyond infuriating. Also the battle results are a joke lol, some times i kill 3 stacks using only lords and heroes and finish full health with 0 casualties just to get a "close victory".
Yeah we need to raise this with the devs, they seem to be pretty on it with making tweaks, think there's a place for that on the Discord
Yeah that happens when lords/heros take up a significant portion of your balance of power and you use up alot of their heal cap. Even if you end at full health, it's still counting all the health you healed as lost health
im glad to see legend tell his mortar to fire and they dont fire. just like in my game lmfao
13x more kills against 2.5x more number of enemies. That's a Heroic Victory man! Stupid AI
what would you have done different if there had been more ranged units it shoot the wizard?
also I notice nobody who makes videos pauses during combat, is that looked down upon or something?
I've noticed that for some reason artillery in this game more so then 2 think they must move if anything changes. So if you give an attack order? Reform. Target dead? Reform. Told to stop? Oh must reform now. Inching ever forward every time.
Never mind other ranged issues where units with clear line of sight just.... decide that no, they won't pull the trigger. As a fan of ranged combat my self, this is very annoying and has lead to many battle redos.
I can only do these sort of tactics with pausing, and using slow mo. I just don't have the dexterity to do it in real time. It's insane that anyone can do this sort of thing!
It just comes with practice my friend! Try creating a rule where you can't pause and try to only do your micro in slow-mo. After you get proficient at that, you can step it up to normal speed. Heck, even practice some easy battles at 2x speed in the "quick battle" tab.
Hey Legend, loved the video, it's stuff like this that really makes me glad to be a strategy gamer as I also have such an appreciation for military strategy and history. Haven't had a chance to watch the streams so you may already do this, but do you use the same techniques in your own campaigns as you do the disaster battles? I feel like you've got "The Cheese" down to a fine art at this point and would like to see more gameplay that reflects the strategies of whatever faction/Lord you happening to be playing at that time, would you be up for it? It does mean thinking and acting differently with each species, so that could be quite interesting to see, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this
He stopped streaming a bit ago to focus on videos but there's a ton of old streams on his channel you could watch, on just about every faction and LL imaginable
Usually Legend doesn't need to fight such large scale disaster battles, since he also has very strong control and forward thinking in his campaign map gameplay. Disaster battles are often the result of mismanaging campaign map stage.
Make sure to subscribe and catch his end of year 24h charity live stream it's prolly gonna be a "this is total war" campaign, where the rule is to immediately declare war with every single empire that he encounters!
@@skeenerbug601 Bugger I forgot that 😅 thanks for the reminder tho
@@skeenerbug601 But that's not to say he can't pre-film any that he'd like to share and commentate on, he knows his shit with this game and it would be great to learn more from him
@@adriankoch964 That's very true, he knows what he's doing so he plans ahead. Still, that doesn't mean he doesn't have to apply conventional military strats in battles as a teaching tool, or RP as an LL and fight in ways loreful to a given faction 😄
As someone who surrounded a stronger unit with my weaker skeleton boys with Tomb Kings, and would still lose or barely win, I will never understand how it's not about stats
I know that cheese is usually nescessary in disaster battles, but this type of video, just showing your skill in strategy and playing the game how it was intended is much more entertaining.
I could have sworn that you will still have the same speed flying when you walk or run stance it. Just something that could save you vigor.
THIS! This is the total war i miss.
Times like this you truly earn your legend title.
How is the slow match time unavaiable for you? It is greyed out? Is that from a mod? I want that too.
You know I noticed my vampire coast would shoot their mortars when they where reloaded too
CC: "Legend to the wall here"
carl friends is my favorite lord
All ranged units seem to have this issue in w3, I have had issues with even archer stacks not firing when ordered - rendering autofire only. .. its total aids.
French artillery. Goes on strike when christmas comes.
So what was wrong with the artillery? Bug?
Hey legend any tips for defending minor settlements as dwarfs but against a cathay because they have those sky junks and rocket batteries and grand cannons with 440 range or something like that, seems no matter where i stand to stop there infantry they can beat me by just artillery on my defensive positions by the time there army gets to me im toast
Do you think it was because they didnt have vision with the mortars? obvs it didnt used to work like that but they started firing again when the units moved away and presumably into vision. Maybe just bugged but just a thought
Do you still stream I used to see you stream a lot during the morning (my time) but I haven't seen one for a while now. Love the content keep up the good work.
Hi Legend and merry xmas
See I always noticed and figured if things like mortars fail to shoot as they did here, giving them a move order and/or off-onning fire at will and stuff has some resetting rejiggle effect that helps them return to normal function. What do you make of that?
Does anyone know what the music that starts at 4:41? Being trying to find the music
I probably can't pull this off with a dwarven army, given that have no speed
Is the 2.3 campaign stable now? I keep getting multiple ctd's!
For me CTDs scale proportionally with number of active mods. Vanilla CTDs mostly when loading into battles for me, but thats rare now. Still quicksave before every battle and use ample rolling autosave slots, esp with active mods.
No cheese...?
Are... Is that you Legend? Everything okay at home?
LOL
Agreed the Pyrrhíc was bs. Only explanation I can think of is the mortars somehow counting as lost and perhaps karl at half health (since he was such a major part of the balance of power?). Mb bit of the Sigmar Priest as well. Still stupid of course
Nice battle. Miss the livestreams. Merry christmas.
why didnt they use Menace Below?
dem cannons were hilarious
Battle of Austerlitz, fantasized”
Really enjoyed this video!
Oh, classic good old Total War... Units won't shoot just because.
When I learned to play this game, in my very first campaign, it drove mad as hell. Like wtf, what "tactics" and "planning" we are talking if I never know what to expect from my troops? What the bs is this game?
Since those days I played hundreds of hours and learned something about line-of-sight mechanics, and that terrain is not that flat as it looks from above... but as we see here, even the literal all-knowing god of this game can't guarantee that your troops will simply shoot when you need them. Because it's Total War, my boy.
for me its the AI ALWAYS seems to know where I hide my units. Like they cheat just as obvious as when they dodge arty fire
god ranged units in this game are so scuffed. ruins playing any range-heavy faction for me. great vid legend
I'm just transitioning from WH2 TW to Warhammer 3. Total War 3 Battle Maps are so EXTREMELY FREAKING TINY most of the time you have no choice but frontal assault. Especially most of the Cathay Maps. I had 3 Cathay maps in a row where I couldn't simply line up my infantry from flank to flank in a normal formation because the deployment zones were so narrow. These were OPEN TERRAIN maps! Once the Battle started I tried to get my cav "on the flanks" and ran into the out of bounds lines on the left and right flank. So basically the enemy infantry line was lined up from one boundary to the other in a normal formation 2 ranks deep. Tiny, crappy, lazily done maps in TW3. Total trash. Many of the WH3 TW maps are about 1/4 the size of Napoleon TW maps. WTF happened to CA?
That is the thing about total war for me you can make the meta army and over power the ai with auto resolves like a civ game but then there are moments against all odds you have your boys get stuck in and pull out the heroic victory when normally in civ its just an automatic loss. Sorry I've been trying to get my friend on total war rather than civ :}
why are you not using control groups, all that box dragging is gonna kill your wrist
How in the hell is that a phyrric victory. What sort of uncodly witchcraft of warfare counts as a heroic victory in this case?!
Playing as VampCounts, you can get a pyrrhic victory with zero end-of-battle casualties... Because you used up your winds of magic.
It's ridiculous, really.
Once again Legend getting screwed with by the ai not wanting to fire. This is why I'm holding off on buying till this game is on a significant sale.
Mortars are ok, they are just using Drax technique of invisibility.
Mortars? With the empire?
I think he/she would just go for the Bombardment Caavalery instead...
The after battle rating system is pants on head re***ded.
That battle was the very OPPOSITE of Pyrrhic: you had a crushing victory where the balance of forces is very much in your favour should there be another battle.
You'd think CA might fix it out of embarrassment if nothing else, but apparently they don't mind it generating assessments so idiotic it seems to be largely run by a skewed RNG system.
To add insult to injury, of course, it's that rating that determines EXP and rewards if I'm not mistaken. 🤬
Great, isn't it? 🤣
thats a lot of backstabbing for a man-thing
Legend: "That was..."
Me: "So cool!"
I can't tell you how many times I've said fing shoot!
Didn't now the doom-flayers could inflict a pacifism side effect on the artillery crew they attack. Nasty.
I just wanted to pick up the game again, but the ranged units ignoring orders is an absolute dealbreaker for me. I have to be able to trust them with following orders. If orders make my units less effective, i might as well just watch them do their thing or watch your videos. The game is not worth playing like this
How the hell was this not cheasing...
Until you have a 1 man doom stack then stats matter more
12:40 cause they dont get paid enough thats why i guess
I like the thumb nail 👍
Unit roster for nagash legion mod?
Interesting but the constant clicking sounds are distracting and annoying af
It's more of the same cheese without the tactics. Ai needs a serious rework.
Dude, why aren't you in the army? Like irl general.
pretty sure in actual armies the "enemy" has double digit iq
@@morgothbauglir8706 i guess legend of total war still will nail it