Dave Meltzer on The Montreal Screw Job | Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels: Survivor Series 1997
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Dave Meltzer on The Montreal Screw Job | Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels: WWF Survivor Series 1997
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Even though it is Vince's belt, Bret was always loyal to him. They should have had Bret drop the belt to someone not named "Shawn Michaels" anywhere in the US. Amirite?
I would agree. I think Shawn was the final word there, and Vince left it up to Shawn. So when Shawn refused to do the job, that left Vince with no other choice than to make the match a swerve. When Vince said "Brett screwed Brett", what he really should have said was "Shawn screwed Brett".
this shows vince coud have afforded bret. ime for some number crunching, as Dave looks at both WWF and WCW and compares TV ratings and house show attendance numbers for the last 5 years in great detail. There's a lot of numbers and stuff here but I'll try to sum it up easily. When it comes to WCW, they're obviously in the midst of their hottest run ever. But there's a misconception that WCW winning the cable ratings war is some new thing, when in reality, WCW has pretty much always beaten WWF in cable ratings, with the Saturday Night show beating early Raw and Prime Time ratings all the time, but they weren't in prime time. And no one really paid attention until the companies began going head-to-head on Monday nights. The truth is, yes, WCW is winning the war but the alleged "decline of WWF" is overrated. 1996 was WWF's strongest house show year since 1991, even though their TV ratings have hit new lows. But overall, WWF is still doing strong business everywhere else and TV ratings haven't shown to have that much effect on ticket sales. In fact, WWF's house show business grew at a faster rate than WCW's did last year and with increased ticket prices, their house show business became even more profitable. There's a perception from people who believe the Monday night ratings are the entire business and believe WWF is in trouble because they're losing the ratings war, but overall, they're still pretty strong (I find stuff like this interesting, because the revisionist version of history is that WCW damn near put WWF out of business until Vince heroically fought back and conquered his enemy. Reality is, they were never even remotely in danger of it and aside from TV ratings, they were doing their best business in years on every other front. Sure, they were a distant second in TV ratings but in all other aspects of the business, WCW was only barely winning).
@@HhhHhhh-nu4lm What about merch? The WWE was probably making a huge percentage of their money from that. Other than maybe nWo shirts, the WWE had to be king of merch. (I used to work at a 5000-seat sports arena in Estero, FL from 2006-2008. A coworker there who was connected to all of the events merch sales said that WWE merch sold more shit than any concerts because of all of the kids in attendance.)
@@gregorykrug8034 what wat your job title when you worked there .they mad alot in WWE merchandise.austin 316
@@HhhHhhh-nu4lm I did not have a job title other than being on the changeover crew. It was a grunt job, changing the arena from hockey to a concert or whatever other event, and then back to hockey. In almost two years there, we had one WWE match and one MMA match. It really was a sucky job, but very interesting.
Also, I got to see a lot of the wrestlers backstage which was very cool.
Dave is so right!! And look at all the bullshit Hogan did and that was okay?? And HBK would always make an excuse so he couldn't lose the belt to someone.. It's so clear they just screwed him!!
Basically... as time has gone on it's more and more clear.. Bret was in the right. End of.
I love it when people decide that they and they alone have the right to end the debate and to declare themselves the winner.
@@ezfightgamer4458 I'm not your buddy and you are doing exactly what you claim that you are not doing. No one was in the "right" -- least of all you -- and no one was in the "wrong". This was business.
It's become very clear. "Shawn screwed Brett" should have been the catchphrase Vince used.
@@maxxxmodelz4061 No one screwed Brett. Wrestling is a work. The outcome is scripted in advance. He was not cheated out of an award or an honor for genuine athletic achievement. The belt is owned by his employer and not by him. He could have and SHOULD have had the belt taken off of him months earlier when he first started to negotiate with WCW.
The fact that he was allowed to wear it for so long afterward should give any thinking person cause to consider WHY he was allowed to wear it for so long afterward.
@@65if2007 Uh, the reason he was allowed to wear it during his negotiations with WCW is a well-documented series of events man. The whole thing is pretty well understood.. Do some more research. Yeah, I think everyone understands that wrestling is "scripted', but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Backstage politics weren't always part of the work. That's just delusional.
Bret was the one who reached out and called Dave after the screw job. Even though Bret didn't want to and disliked Dave at that time. Bret and Dave get along fine after that first phone call
Yeah and how many of the wrestlers worked Dave Meltzer for material? It was a reoccurring theme and so Bret couldn't wait to work Meltzer on the Screwjob.
@@QuestioningOurReality actually I can't recall the person's name on top my head right. Someone in the pro-wrestling industry told Bret to call Dave after the screw job. This was confirmed by all 3 of them. Bret admitted to not liking Dave at that time only called because someone told him to
This is topic I’ve never heard about
Really?
Well get used to it because it's gonna be shoehorned into almost anything to do with wrestling that you see, people just can't not talk about it
By never, do you mean 1000 times?😂
Well the 25th anniversary is next year so...
@@polopopolo2197 correct
Nowadays you have to be very careful, if you work a wrestling angle fine when you involve the legal system it better NOT be a work😳
Bret would lost to undertaker or austin Even shamrock Shawn could beat shamrock or undertaker
I am delusional. You should feel sorry for me. These WWF guys really want this to go away.
Scott hall has left the chat
To go smoke crack
Meltzer sounds like a 90s cartoon character
And he writes like a 1980s muppet.
Does meltzer always have this must trouble string a coherent thought together? He's all over the place. This much of been a very painful interview to do. Also insulting people just because they believe something different is low brow coming from an opinionist.
He says you're delusional if you believe it's a work, ok. What about Nash Hall and X-pac? They think it was a work and I'm inclined to believe them. Shortly after that Shawn left, what's he gonna be doing with his new found time? I'm certain he's gonna be catching up with his friends from WCW, and I'm sure that anything that was weighing on Shawn would've been shared with them.
And like I said, they think it's a work. We can never trust H to tell the truth because he's in the family, so we have to go with the other guys. Also, Bret said in an interview within the past ten years that if it was a work he would've come back old and gray and had a match with Vince, something to that effect. Oh, what's that? You say Bret *did come back old and gray and have a match with Vince and confront Shawn etc just like he said he would've if it was a work?*
*WEIRD I KNOW RIGHT*
Plus one weird little note I took even in 97.
Bret "hit Vince with a Mike Tyson uppercut to the jaw knocking him out"
If he hit VKM in the jaw how did he get a black eye
@@johnfalcetta5431 Brets documentary is more supporting evidence. Knowing full well he can't do much to stop it from being released if Montreal was real, is he gonna let Bret punch him in the head and walk out of the room still dazed on camera? Fuck outta here.
Meltzer said something about hogan's situation being a work even though there were lawsuits, yet in the same sentence said Montreal was real supported by Brets lawsuits? How can he expect anyone to believe that Hogan could work lawsuits but Bret couldn't and didn't?
@Phenomenal Ace Ok? There may not be much hard evidence of a work, but if you look and take everything into consideration there's *plenty* of "circumstantial evidence" and coincidences, and how I think is after a certain number of coincidences they stop being coincidences.
It wasn't a work, double crosses have been a part of wrestling for years and years, especially when it comes to titles, the first thought was swap Shawn for Shamrock so Bret would either do the job or get his ass beat for real, but Bret would have just left the ring if Shamrock turned up, so they had to be creative because if Shawn tried to synch up on Bret for a double cross pin Bret would have kicked out and beat the snot out of him for real.
Everyone close to it says it was real including Shawn who doesn't know what the heck Nash and Hall are talking about, only thing I can think of is he was high and told them it was a work and they believed him. As far as Vince getting punched undertaker and Foley lost it with Vince and said you owe Bret an apology so Vince went into the changing room to talk to Bret, Bret said "if your still here when I get out of the shower I'm gonna punch you" Vince obviously didn't want to lose face by running away and thought he could talk Bret round, Bret came out of the Shower with Vince trying to talk him around and didn't even say a word to Vince BOOM. People saying it's a work because Vince was staggering are stupid, yeah people stagger after they get hit, especially when they aren't used to it.
All the money has been made all the books have been written if it was a work why keep it up? There's no reason, there's no more money to be made out of it. Bret is a lot of things, but not a liar and he always says it was real, as does everyone involved. The only lie was Shawn saying he didn't know what Vince was gonna do, but everyone from Bruce Pritchard to Jim Cornette says Shawn definitely knew what Vince was gonna do as did the ref and Pat Paterson.
@@theantilifeequation8150 Nothing personal but I don't respect what you said because I've seen the Jim Cornette interview that you parroted nearly word for word in that first paragraph, and to me that's indicative of someone who doesn't want to think for themselves. Nothing personal like I said
A work bought in credit... Interest last for years
TOTAL WORK.
Evidence?
@@jakeinator722 Watching that Eric Bischoff DVD on the network right now, its p good, yeah. Think it's from 2015.
@@jakeinator722 They could have easily taken the belt from Bret beforehand. Long before Survivor Series, they knew he was going to WCW and they could have had him drop the belt to someone else. The very fact that he was still wearing the belt when Survivor Series opened was suspicious.
The NFL is a work.
It was a work
Greatest wrestling work in history
Evidence?
@@jakeinator722 none at all. Just a hunch
@Phenomenal Ace Really? How about the phantom three-count that Andre the Giant got over Hulk Hogan on SNME on February 5, 1988? Hogan's shoulder was clearly up, but the referee counted three and gave the belt to Andre.
That wasn't a work? Know who the "crooked" referee was in that match?
It's a work! Meth head Scott Hall said so
If the screw job happened in the Tokyo Dome it would be a work. A 6 star work.
You do know that more 5 star matches including the first 6 star match happened at the Budokan? The Tokyo dome joke is old and ignorant. It should be “5 star match if it was in the Budokan”
@@tuben9217 I bet the film “The 40 Year Old Virgin” was based on you.
@@TheBigD_ I was 4 when that film came out.......
I was just pointing out that your agenda that you push has an inaccuracy and instead of debating or giving your point of view, you turn into a 6 year old. Nice job bro
@@tuben9217 What can I say.....young at heart 😎
Bret refused multiple scenarios, he was beinga selfish primadonna
Actually he was happy to drop the title to Ken Shamrock and Steve Austin. In fact he was booked to lose the title the next night on raw. He just didn’t want to lose in Canada. That’s the only “scenario” that he refused. Do your research homie
It’s a work!!!! What the hell. They are not fighting for real. Why is Brett a mark for himself. But if it was a real, Haku would have been champ for 20 years.
dave meltzer should work for wwe but again he's involved with aew
He;s become a Shill for All Petite.
@@polopopolo2197 does dave work for nxt?
Actually Dave DID work for the WWF in the early 1990s as someone who would report to them on good Japanese talent and Mexican talent. He quit after Vince told him he didn’t want him reporting on the Steroids and Sex Scandal.
But keep pushing your Cornette propaganda if you’d like, I know you have an agenda
Bert should did the job. Vince was right. Shamrock not a good champion, Austin , and Mankind was not ready. Taker already had it , could not draw. HBK was the only choice , and made most sense. WWF took out a loan to pay Tyson. Come on Dave do your research. WWF raise their PPV , because went to two hours to three.
Dave has always been a Bret mark because Hart always was a stooge for him