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MY $7000 FERRARI CLUTCH JOB. The FERRARI Master-Tech's VERDICT!!
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2019
- Josh Hill is a Ferrari Technician and he connected his computer to my car and checked out my clutch's status along with my F1 Transmission. As it turns out, both are in remarkably good condition especially for how many miles I've got on my Ferrari F430.
One of the biggest concerns people have about the Ferrari F430 is with the clutch life, and with the F1 Transmission having issues. Although the F1 transmission in the F430 is considered to be very reliable and durable, there have been instances of it having issues that can be very expensive to fix. Worst case scenarios - people have had to replace the entire transmission although that seems to be fairly uncommon.
The F1 Transmission in the F430 has an electronically controlled differential called an E-Diff. This is also a very expensive component and can cost a lot if things are needing repairs.
Basically the F1 transmission is a hydraulically actuated manual gearbox powered by hydraulic actuators, solenoids, and a computer. This manages the clutch engagement and shifting between gears.
The clutch in the Ferrari F430 has a bad reputation of not lasing very long. Typical life seems to be in the 40K mile range with some people getting more and some less. It would appear that I'm going to get significantly over 40K miles as I'm already at 25K miles and have only 35% clutch wear. Many people talk about how that has to do with how you drive the car.
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Always like seeing a technical expert doing what they love. That guy is an absolute wealth of knowledge.
His right pinky has more knowledge of these cars than I can ever hope to have
I know he's like the best guy ever
geeking out on all that tech stuff and learning on how it works - wow what a machine !
Yeah, I was loving every minute Josh was geeking out on this stuff. I want to pick his brain some more.
That’s the guy you REALLY wanna make good friends with 👍🏻.... that’s passion at work!!!
I just liked his no-f's-given attitude. LOL!
Normal Guy Supercar agreed 👍🏻
Totally love listening to him work !!!
I just had to have my accumulator replaced in Jan. ('08 with 21k miles) It had a sudden failure- ran fine one weekend, the next time I drove it the car was shifting to neutral. Turned out to be the accumulator losing pressure. I was expecting a crazy repair bill for the F1 system- I was pleasantly surprised at the low cost of the repair!!
Yeah, it's easy to get to and you just swap out the old and in with the new.
Very informative. Need to have him come by more 👍👍👍
I agree!
"I'm taking your fast water...." " anndd the transmission is gone" 😂😂
LOL! I'm such a dick sometimes. :)
Love the video, I’m 38 and currently running a 991.1 911 - I’ve always wanted a F430 or a 458... but I’ve always been told about horrendous maintenance costs - $20k+ (CAD) tranny etc, brakes $15k.
Is this true? I don’t know anyone around me that has a Ferrari, that worries about the costs.
My Porsche is great but Ferrari is another step up! I’m just scared to take the dive!
I think the F430 and 458 are pretty solid cars. If you dig through my video history, you can see just about everything I've had to do to this car and it's nowhere near $20k.
loved the intro "like a rock" Chevy!
LOL! :)
Andrew Leonard I liked it too. It was awesome timing.
Every time mine goes in for service I ask them to give me the read-out on estimated clutch and ceramic brake life. Latest estimate for the clutch is 81k miles, and for the brakes 156k. And that includes a few track days. So if you understand how the systems work and treat the car well it will last you well in return.
Very true. But I have to wonder if so many are driving them poorly or is it just they all freak out and change out clutches way too early...
@@normalguysupercar Launch control will trash the clutch, but that's not a problem for you. To keep it healthy is mainly about not letting the clutch slip. So not using it in Auto in slow traffic, not creeping at ultra-low speed so it doesn't fully engage, and easing the throttle to unload the transmission during upshifts.
Very tech channel ,i was searching for that.
I would suggest to everyone who uses this era of clutches like M5 e60,maserati graturismo,quattroporte,m3 e46 ,ferrari 360,355,550.maranello etc
So here's some tips for driving it proper :
1. Clutch actuator works depending on the speed of the engine so don't ride the acceleration on/off ,that's just going to ride the clutch and not fully engage thus slipping is more.
2.do not start extremely slowely like in a regular automatic.(same as above explanation)
3. Do not backup on steep hills,reverse gearing is so low that clutch usage is 100%.
4. Do not left brake,especially for those who track the car.
5.Don't do burnouts.
6. Don't overexagerate with the downshift.
7.use the paddleshifters as often as.possible.(this reduces clutch time engagement,and slipp).
8.All the above is mandatory for all vehicles but especially for this one because it's his achiles heel.
Hope this helps a.lot of you and keep your cars far away from garages.
Good tips
Love all your videos man....I have a 360 my first ferrari....i love it but have realized they require alot of attention.
Had all services done clutch is next debating on kevlar....
I'd be curious to see if it behaves differently with a Kevlar clutch.
@@normalguysupercar I was told the life expectancy is 300% better then stock...clutch comes from company called hitech..I will have it back in 2 weeks I'll keep you posted
Claims engagement is better also and other people I have talked to who have had the kevlar one installed were very happy.....time will tell...I'm 12k into parts and labor already last 2 years.....
But I love it.....was quoted 7500 for clutch new flywheel pressure plate and labor...
Great news about your clutch. Josh is a great person to know in case you have any major issues. Hopefully never. 😁😁
Indeed! Not to mention he's just cool as hell. :)
Please interview him and ask how he got into his role!!! That would be so interesting!
I may just have to do that. :)
Wondering how many hours it take to keep your car that clean? Maybe a good video idea and how you do it? Tools and cleaner etc. :)
Welllllll... It looks a LOT cleaner on camera than it usually is in person. :) I've done quite a few videos on how I clean my car if you go in my history. I keep evolving my process though.
That was really cool of Josh. I need to meet this guy.
Btw- time to throw out those Beaver Nuggets. Do you want ants? That's how we get ants!
Oh yeah, I need to pitch those. Lol!
Can you make a video describing the mechanics of F1 transmission and is there anything I can do in terms of maintenance to keep the F1 transmission in good shape to prevent any expensive repairs or parts replacement? How will I know if the accumulator needs to be replaced?
Yeah, that's a good one.
Without a computer, the easiest thing to do to determine F1 health is to time your F1 pump cycles. Typically it should be 1 min 20 sec., but I’ve seen many cycle as low as every 35 seconds. The increase in frequency indicates “bleed” either in your accumulator or in your solenoids. As far as clutch maintenance, just practice driving your car in a way that minimizes slip. F1 systems are bulletproof but they are designed for high RPM shifts so shifting at 2-3k sometimes requires a bit of throttle feathering to get a fast bite.
@@erikdisomma1759 How do I time my F1 pump cycles?
Your pump is the electric motor that you hear when you open your driver door. The TCU brings the internal pressure of the F1 system up to operating range, which is between 40 and 50 bar. When you open your door, the system “thinks” you’ll be starting the car so it automatically builds the pressure to move the slave and disengage the clutch. When the car is idling the pump will cycle in order to keep the F1 system within operating range, turning on at 40 bar and shutting off at 50 bar. The pump is located in the upper right rear but to give you a better idea, open your door with the car off and listen. That will help you locate it. Once you understand where it is, listen closely while the car is idling and up to temp and time the intervals of it turning on and off. When the system becomes aged, the intervals will get shorter as the system will bleed down to 40 bar sooner and the pump will run more often.
@@erikdisomma1759 Got it. Thanks for the detailed explanation
how is that computer reading data , I don't see a cable connected ... is it blue tooth ? o r was it pre- loaded earlier . cheers loving the content !
ILUKATUBE bluetooth obd adapter
Yeah, it was on the OBD port and has bluetooth as Markus said.
Nice video , Josh is good guy . Does he work for Ferrari of Texas or has his own shop ?
He works for a Jaguar shop now. LOL! He does have his own shop too.
I can't believe you left Meg to fend for herself. You could have grilled up a nice dinner on your exhaust. Sheesh!
She didn't like the gasoline flavoring.
Very good video 👍👍
Thank you!
that was cool! funny to watch it go through the gears and not go anywhere lol
LOL! It was shifting pretty hard too.
Damn. That guy really does sound like he knows these cars in and out.
He definitely does.
Recently when we had the first cold front come in few weeks ago, trying to change gears from 1st to 2nd has become a problem. After a cold start and trying to leave from my stop sign the car either wont let me shift from Neutral to 1st or from 1st to 2nd sometimes. I click the paddle and nothing. Small message appears “SLOW DOWN” below the rpm gauge. Im not going fast at all.. so i either have to creep or just wait like 10 seconds and then finally it changes gear. After a full warm up it seems to work fine and all is normal. But not always. It will sometimes screw with me one more time during my joyride. Thinking maybe F1 pump or actuator might be givin me trouble. Never had these issues until we had that serious cold front come in at begin of November. Strange
Are you keeping it on a tender?
Normal Guy Supercar Yup, always
@@stopmaverick2 yeah then it's likely the pump, accumulator, or low on F1 fluid.
Normal Guy Supercar Gotcha, I’ll check it out
Wow. He s the Ferrari whisper. Very interesting. Thanks. SoulDave
For sure he is!
Hi... I am checking a Ferrari 575M - 2004, in tester the fault appears is C1204 & there is a warning sign on cluster it is in red colour & shows car standing on jacks.... I don't understand the meaning of sign.... Any idea about the fault ?
I don't know I have not seen that one
Small world!!! I SWEAR this guy worked on my car like 10-12 years ago when he was in N. VA. I just contacted him on Linkedin. Dude was super knowledgeable back then.
He used to live up in that area I think so that's probably him. That's cool.
what software is that?!? 😬
Just saw it at the tint place in pville. Sweet ride
Thanks! Ah yeah, it's getting the last of it's PPF put on.
Bravo good sir! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Heck yeah!
What program? Not Leonardo? I know these are costly, but thoughts on purchasing the software for your channel?
I don't remember the name but it's not the Leonardo. But it's still like $5k.
www.texa.com
That white corvette in the background looks sooooo aggressive.
Hah I do love the look of the C7's. :)
More of this!
Ok
You have to record whatever he says . coz he knows and is right . great video .
Haha pretty much! His words are gold.
The only thing I understood was Meg saying she’s going to go get dinner lol
HAHA! MMm... Food.
manual mission also need to replace clutch frequently??
Not as often but yes they only last about 50k miles
YES!! More of this kinda stuff... can't imagine there being any 'coding' options that you're able to do, no?
I think he can take care of most but not quite all things with that computer set up.
Normal Guy Supercar I meant there can’t be many options to change? Perhaps on another video😊
That information has to give you some good peace of mind. And considering that you drive your 430 the way it was meant to be driven speaks volumes of how well it has been maintained as well. Maybe you should ask your viewers how many miles your 430 will have on it when I get to make a review video on your awesome car. 😄
Yeah, I suspect it proves my theory a bit that the cars that get driven have less problems. Sitting there rotting away is the ultimate enemy.
@@normalguysupercar I saw an article about a car museum in Southern Cal. I don't remember the name. But the person in the article said that any car that can be driven on the street is taken out for a one hour drive once a week on the freeway. He said that what they notice was that cars tend to develop more issues when not driven.
I was headed up to skip your intro as I always do until I heard the start of ‘like a rock’ and the bow tie guy in me made me watch through it
Lol it's a good song.
Which software was josh using?
Texa
Next up, Dan's colonoscopy results! Does Dan work as well as his 430? Stay tuned!
Lol!
Which shop does he work at here? Need a good tech
It's a jaguar shop off 290.
7000$ for a clutch ?! Why ?! In ferrari maranello home company it's priced at 4000$
And a hello to Josh
You probably know him is my guess. )
Yup
What is the software/interface he is using?
I'm not sure.
That’s either TEXA or Auto Ingenuity. The Leonardos are the best aftermarket units but they’re pricey. The SD3 is by far superior but it’s a bitch to learn and it’s pretty much dealer-only.
Have owned F1 box Ferrari’s for years (V8 and V12) and done big miles in them clutches are good for at least 100,000km. My conclusion is most of the clutches weak stories are from clocked cars.
Turn off the radio playing in your garage when your filming. Very distracting . Good video
There was no radio. It's music I added.
I know you didnt just use the “like a rock” them for a ferrari
Haha I did... And it was funny.
Dan, excellent technical video and my congratulations to Josh Hill on his expertise and knowledgeable approach to this. My technician for the 612 Scaglietti F1 has the TEXA Diagnostics software with the Supercar Package, so I will run the diagnosis soon, as I have been having a few issues with gears going from 3rd to Neutral when the car is hot, while it is fine when cold or even on cold days. Might be the oil viscosity, might need to be bled or a non-efficient clutch (despite our 2008 612 Scaglietti F1 has only 10.000 miles, which means it should be driven way more and not sit in the garage, I know!). Well done. Leonardo - ItaliaSpeciale.com
Hopefully it just needs a bleed and recalibration.
Personally, I would not use the TEXA system for a 612. There are coverage holes with that system and if you're diagnosing any issues or running grid patterns, I'd use either a genuine SD3 or a Leonardo tool. TEXA is the least expensive PC tool but it is not the best. If there is a qualified Ferrari tech out there who is passionate about his work, he will invest a few extra bucks in the Leo. As far as your issue, you need to check your bleed rates. The TEXA should do that successfully. The only problem is it doesn't test the bleed rates for each solenoid; it only gives a sampling of the average bleed rate. This will serve as a guide but won't pinpoint which solenoid is leaking. The solenoids (there are a total of 6 with 2 engagement solenoids and 4 selection solenoids) fire hydraulic fluid through high pressure tubes into your actuator, which changes gears for you (instead of using a stick). If your problem is confined to one gear (3rd) you could be having an issue with one of the selection solenoids. I believe third and fourth gear are the only gears using the solenoids EV3, EV4 and EV5 at the same time, which would explain why that gear would fail before others. That's why I would test the leakage first. Also another thing to keep in mind is that the F430 uses a bladder-type accumulator and the 612 and 599 use a piston type. When the f430 fails, it typically fails suddenly, but then the 599 and 612 fail, they slowly start to exhibit symptoms. So you may want to test the pump cycles also just to be sure it is in good health. Again, as I explained in other posts, any internal hydraulic leakage will amplify in the heat. If you're system is bleeding 180cc/min the car will run just fine cold. But when it's hot, it'll jump to N because of the loss in fluid viscosity.
OH, and please don't misinterpret my opinion on the TEXA. If you're replacing clutches and adjusting the kiss point, bleeding the F1 system, doing self-learns, it's fine. But if you're trying to running grid patterns, calibrating the DEIS and doing more granular autocalibrations, I'd recommend you send the car to Ferrari and complete and pressure test your results with the SD2, SD3 or SDX. It's the best $250 you'll ever spend!
@@erikdisomma1759 Thank you so much for your input and taking the time to pitch in, I appreciate it. I will take all into consideration and look into things deeper. Dan @normalguysupercar, thanks for providing this space for technical discussion. Grazie! Leonardo - Abruzzo1.com
@@normalguysupercar Thank you for providing this space for some tech talk. Grazie.
Dan this has been a super handy video to watch, I'm having issues with my 360 CS not going into gear ruclips.net/video/g4nhwNnohME/видео.html and the explanation Josh gave really helped me understand a few things. One question, what was the system Josh used was it an SD2/3 or aftermarket and does that all connect and communicate via the OBDII port under the dash ?
I replied to your email...
When's the next cars and coffee?
This Sunday.
Dude is a freakin droid!!
Ok
This guy is far from 100%. It is impossible for your solenoid bleed rates to be 0! Normal is around 10cc/min non-triggered and 20 triggered. At 30, it is considered elevated and problems don’t start until you reach 150+. The reads are off because the F1 fluid is too thick because it’s not at operating temp! This isn’t opinion; this is basic fluid dynamics. Second, YOU’LL NEVER use the entire 5.56mm of plate material. EVER! The wear is dependent on your PIS vs remaining friction material. Third, don’t ever do a self learn ice cold. The NCR needs to learn the shifting thresholds while the oil is hot and thin, as in typical driving conditions. Finally, he should have mentioned your wear index. It should stay under 4,000.
Well.. that's you opinion. I trust Josh. I'm going with what he said gleaned from his 20+ years of experience.
Nice!! Should improve your shifts now it's calibrated for the wear... :-)
It didn't seem to change it much really. Perhaps a very subtle difference.
the Normal Guy is dancing in the street. It's allowed, just ignore the strange look from the old lady next door.
Lol!
Didnt he work at lamborghini?
I believe at some point. He likes Italian cars. 😁
Oh dan you need to cleanup you messy garage just look at your worktop tools every where
It's fine.
Agreed! Clean it!
kamikazekaos it has character. Well... we were working on the 360 at the time too, LOL
Stuart Osantowski yes ok excuses excuses lol
No reason to be defensive, I’m just trying to help.
And I'm just stating that I trust Josh. No offense, but I know Josh and have no idea who you are.
*Google's what's an actuator* lol
Haha... it does stuff and costs a lot.
PDK #1.
Eh...
I love you
Hmm OK
You are a genuine and entertaining youtube personality
@@Playstationnationalist well thank you
I’m a big fan of your channel but as it grows (and I suspect it will) you will get an increasing amount of feedback from experts trying to share advice. Some of it will work for or against your material, but nonetheless it will be valuable to you and your viewers. In the “Ferrari F1 community” we try to help each other out to better understand these machines, and constantly share ideas and knowledge and most of all, clear up misunderstandings. A good friend of mine has heavily assisted the software company who makes the program he’s using, with their Ferrari/Maserati F1 and Lamborghini e-gear plug in, for example and I don’t think he’s made $1 for his contributions. I take calls almost every day also and walk owners and unseasoned mechanics through repairs. So for the good of your channel, take a page from Freddy’s book (tavarish) and consider all the advice you’ll find in these comments. You’ll be surprised what you will learn.
I'm doing my best... I get a lot of shit from a lot of people. It's sometimes hard to filter through what's BS and what's not. Just go read comments on some of my videos and you'll want to smash your face into a brick wall. Unlike ANY other YTer in the car community that I know of, I make a valiant effort to actually read AND respond to every single comment. That means I also see a lot more of the crap than the others. I get advice / feedback / flat out demands from people every day.
I understand that you think I was dismissive of you, but put it in the context of my perspective... I KNOW Josh. I TRUST Josh. Josh makes certain statements that I think are logical. Then, some random dude pops up on my comments and says a bunch of stuff directly against what Josh said to me. Should I believe random person on the internet - who may or may not have any sort of real background of expertise? OR, should I continue to believe someone I actually know in real life that has actually worked on my car?
@@normalguysupercar Totally understand. And, yes I am truly impressed with your response rate! When you hit your 1,000,000 subscriber mark, it'll be more difficult to respond to everyone, but you're doing great so far. As for the car, don't let the clutch scare you anyway. Too many people stress over the clutch, when ultimately the clutch life read only gives a roundabout read on the disc itself, not the other components (F1 sensor, bearing, etc.) which are equally as important. But, what few people realize is that these cars are SIMPLE TO WORK ON! The subframes drop straight down using a simple ATV jack and EVERYTHING is exposed. The systems are completely modular with all bolt-on components. When you get the trans failure message, a scan tool and basic knowledge will typically point directly to the source of the problem allowing you to swap it out, recalibrate, and you're back on the road. Try that with a DCT! Ha! I actually can't wait for your clutch to go out just so you'll tear this thing down on your channel, finally proving to the world how amazing the F1 systems are by design, and showing how easy they are to repair.
It's absolutely an easy car to work on! The longer I've owned it, the more impressed with the modularity and engineering that went into it.
Resuming: your red devil still has a entire life in front hehe
Yes!! :)
Yet another misleading video title. Nary a wrench turned in this episode.
sooooo.... long story short you need to drive the car like you stole it, and you baby it too much? :P
LOL! I drive the hell out of my car! Actually, based on my conversation with Josh, I think there's some logic to the harder you drive it, the less it wears the clutch.
I still think they are junk
OK
But you’re a good man