It took a 1,342 mph fastball to break SRAM Transmission
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- Опубликовано: 20 мар 2023
- UPDATE - we received the replacement Transmission parts from SRAM and repaired the derailleur. Check it out here: • We totally destroyed (...
Will SRAM Transmission shift in zero gravity? Does this new electronic drivetrain sink or float? How fast do you have to throw a baseball at your derailleur to break it? We answer these questions, and more, in our latest video. We take this brand new wireless, hangerless mountain bike drivetrain to its limits, and beyond, so you don't have to.
Find yours here:
- bit.ly/43BcBxw
*Disclaimer:
To best describe the strength of the various derailleurs we tested, we opted to compare the momentum of our pendulum to that of other "real world" moving objects (however likely/unlikely they may be). We chose to look at momentum carried by the pendulum, as opposed to the actual force delivered to the derailleur, because we do not have the tools and equipment needed to measure that force. If Dan was unclear at any time and implied that the impact force was identical to that of a hypersonic baseball, as opposed to the momentum of the pendulum being equivalent to that of a hypersonic baseball, it is only because his physics education does not exceed that of a college physics 101 class. If James made any calculation errors in the video, it is only because he was in the middle of finals week in his physics undergraduate degree during the filming of the video, and not because he didn't take every possible measure to ensure the accuracy and clarity of his comparisons, up to and including checking his methods with his classical mechanics professor.
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UPDATE VIDEO - we received the replacement derailleur parts from SRAM and repaired it, check it out here: m.ruclips.net/user/shortsP9-LFW_PtIU
Pricing?
A hanger is 20€/$
Man I hate it when a baseball hits my rear mech at mach 1.7
Happens way too often these days. All Putin's fault...
Stop riding across the baseball field then, duh!
@@tekjim 😂
You ever seen the video of Randy Johnson smoking a bird with a fastball during a game? It’s like that but with derailleur’s and a much faster fast ball 😂
Smarter Every Day enters the chat…
Damn, SRAM is really pushing this product to all the RUclipsr’s. This new SRAM stuff popped up everywhere as I was making my RUclips rounds today. 😎
they pump heavy cash into this
Sram's not pushing anything. It's basically 'free' marketing to them. Give content creator's your new product, tell them the features and let them have at it. Creators have had the groupsets available to them to make videos. Embargo lifts and content is available.
@Logan Patrick Nelson Could you make another video and go into deatil? Im curious if the new 8bolt mount chanrings will fit with old SRAM 12 speed chains? On web site they say these chainrings are only for new type of chain, but visually the teeth on chainring look identical to old SRAM chainrings... Thanks.
Imagine who's gonna pay the advertisement in the end...
SRAM and other companies usually have media embargoes so it makes sense that everybody who had this already would release this on the same day to be "first"
Honestly SRAM owes you guys some commission. This is way better than anything that came out of SRAMs marketing department and should silence a lot of people complaining about the durability of Transmission.
Glad you enjoyed it! Hahaha, that might change our stance on things. This way we get to figure out if we want to sell the stuff.
Cheers - Dan P.
As an applied physics undergraduate (who is learning Lagrangian atm), it was sooooo exciting to hear that the silly methods used in this vid count as a professional application of a degree im pursuing. epic. cant wait to do something equally dumb/informative in the future
@fanatik needs to pay that physicist guy more w all that number crunching
They clearly don't have even the slightest understanding of physics, inertia, momentum, etc. The last test that destroyed the derailleur is actually the only realistic result of what would happen if the bike is flying and hits a rock. The others just pushed the gears and absorbed the inertia.
Thank you, I spent the full video thinking momentum has nothing to do with force. F=MA is physics 101@@paulgallagher2937
This experiment only tests the durability of the parallelogram. I would actually like to see how carbon dropouts would fare after an impact to the lug piece that the UDH bolt holds in place, you know the piece just above the parallelogram.
Most people are worried about damage to their carbon dropouts if the impact is on that wide silver section right by the setup button since that's the part that will transfer the impact force directly into the dropout.
That side impact that broke the parallelogram actually impacted the b-knuckle (the piece you refer to) first, before then hitting the parallelogram. See here: ruclips.net/video/i3QzPxdN1e4/видео.html
- Dan P.
Pretty sure it impacted the fulcrum of said piece.
@@FanatikBikeCo you should do a analysis of the rear triangle material after all these whacks. Surely, that would be a more comprehensive look at where the shock is going, no?
Shouldn't we as customers, be insisting on aluminium dropouts in carbon frames, because carbon abrades far to easily.
@@matthewpeet1 or just buy an alloy or steel frame 🦊👍
Wild moves to test this new Transmission! Thanks for this video guys :D
It's the sutros as safety glasses that does it for me
Never saw a video of you guys but I enjoyed this one very much!
This is something I was looking forward to! great work! Love the engineering approach, math talks!
The entire bike was absorbing the shock because the bike was suspended. Have someone sit on the bike with the tire on the floor and do it. Saw the brace at the end but it was still moving alot.
It is true. Not a perfect test. We actually broke the door on the bench it hit it so hard. Things to learn from!
Cheers, Dan P.
P.S. I don't think we could have volunteered anyone to sit on that thing with that whacker loaded up like it was!! 😲😅
but i'd venture to guess if you did the same test on a different bike with a conventional style setup, it would have given up the ghost a long time ago.
Making an immensely stiff and strong derailleur mount is fine but what shock loads is it putting into the carbon rear triangle and linkage?! Energy in, is energy out. A very risky design. Scan the carbon for delamination...
It's actually all going into the axle, which is supported by both sides of the rear triangle. So you're not wrong, but it's an extremely solid design. Like, your rear triangle's dropouts are dealing with massively larger forces than this from hits on the trail and drops and jumps, etc. If you don't trust this, you may as well not trust your bike to ride it.
- Dan P.
Great content definitely most entertaining SRAM transmission content on the tube, and highlights the great features this new tech gives to mountain biking 👍
16:49 my set of shimano rims actually have a hole in the sidewall to allow water to drain out of the double wall. The water comes in from the spoke nipple holes, learnt that the hard way when doing creek crossings
Halfway through the video and I'm honestly impressed how well the original AXS derailleur held up. It almost makes me wonder why SRAM went through the hassle of making a proprietary version with Transmission, and potentially leaving the dropouts as a point of failure instead of a hanger. But I guess time will tell as they get ridden in real-world conditions.
BEST video you guys have dropped
Loved the video and the approach to thinking about failure modes. I would have liked to see the same test on a Shimano cable shifted derailleur as well for comparison.
That would have been sweet, but at 26 minutes long we felt like we were pushing it already. Figured keep the test to a parallel product category. Glad you enjoyed it!
- Dan P.
Could have been 35’ I would have watch
As much as I love my Shimano Drivetrain, they would use a piece of al dente spaghetti to whip it and break it. 😂.
Thanks for making the case in favor of gearboxes that much stronger.
Personally would like even more reviews, tests, overviews and stuff, everything!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
- Dan P.
Great experiment. Still sticking with a cable for now but I enjoyed this a lot
This is such a great progress from the cranks breaking video. However, I think the impact would come from the direction of the travel (like when you hit a stump or rock), but your angled dangle pendulum was quite close. The impact from the side is way less likely. To smash a derailleur and provide with some number is way betther then do a silly "stepping test". Looking forwared to the next video
thank you dudes! keep it up
Nice tests! New sram looks impressive..
Finally a video that actually tests the durability.
The part that's missing here is rate of work...aka power. The power of that impact is much much much greater than the power of Dan impacting at 2.5 mph.
Hahaha, there was a lot missing here from this experiment, but yes. I originally wanted to calculate the force of the impacts, but it was going to be harder than what we had time for, so we settled on momentum as a frame of reference.
Cheers!
Dan P.
Man so right
Work/time
Love it! Will it blend meets mythbusters
@@adamtuff2574 Thanks Adam!! Glad you dug it. Good hearing from ya!
- Dan P.
I liked the content. Then you said “Python”, and I was hooked. Even though I’m a roadie, you got a follow! Great job..
Hahahah thanks! Cheers!
- Dan P.
Dude. Love the tribute to “will it blend”.
Super entertaining, well done gents!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I was concerned that a more frontal impact was going to damage the frame since they are not build to handle torque in that area but I didn't know that it could rotate back like that. I really hope they also bring this to cabled shifters
So it's actually a feature of the UDH!! So that can happen on normal derailleurs on bikes with UDH.
Re-watch this part for an example: ruclips.net/video/i3QzPxdN1e4/видео.html
- Dan P
I think 2020 bikes and up mostly have UDH which do the same thing. I'm still interested in seeing how this affects carbon though ... SRAM ran all the tests so I'm not overly concerned. Just think about the backlash they'd get if a bunch of carbon frames started breaking.
Awesome information, but damn that was hard to watch. Never wished I had SRAM until today. MTB tech is fascinating.
Super painful. Didn't love dropping that pendulum on the poor bikes.
Thanks for watching!
Dan P.
The best drivetrain comparison vid of all time. Freakin great! Might as well use your pendulum tester now for all rear mech so we can see results. Thanks!
Thanks Aram! Silly stuff.
- Dan P.
Would love to hear how much speed loss due to impact the hits would equate to if you (Dan) were riding say 15mph so it becomes more relatable. Knowing for example that the derailler could take a hit hard enough to take out 1/3 of your speed at 15mph would be very reassuring
Whatever they said is the difference in speed. I think it was 2.4 mph to zero which is the same as 15mph to 12.4 mph.
@@samvilla6290 it's not because the starting velocity isn't the same. That would mean that the same mass at higher velocity would slow down a lot less
Little did I know my trampoline was to be used for such greatness🔥
Wow, you guys beat the crap outta that thing!
hope they release a cable version for this, no beef against electronics but i just want my bike to be fully mechanical.
They won't. Most of the core stuff that makes this awesome is only available due to it being 'smart'. Introducing mechanical indexing and variables such as cable tension mean that you cannot apply the vast majority of the advantages that you have with Transmission. Think of Gen 1 AXS as an electronic emulation of a mechanical drive train, where as this Gen 2 AXS is if you forget about mechanical ever existing.
Great video😂🤘
The bike builder is sick btw
Really enjoy this type of content! Thanks!
The huge assumption is that the spindle and rear triangle hasn't received a shock beyond its elastic limit, which isn't visible. Single seat race cars carbon suspension wishbones are strong in one direction, weak in all others.
I know they’re pushing this “fully rebuildable” line, but SRAM’s track record on actually making spare parts available for purchase is dismal to the point of considering it non-factor.
I have two sets of expensive 11-speed road shifters that can’t be used because the poorly designed hydro piston seals swoll up and SRAM have not made the replacements available for a couple of years now.
So yeah, good luck rebuilding these, but I’m sure the complete (and crazy expensive) replacement derailleurs will be available everywhere, all the time though. You will of course buy it because you’re now locked into a highly proprietary system and have no other choice without replacing the entire drivetrain.
🤔 good point. We need said replacement parts
My hats off, fella's! Solid work here, love seeing this system getting smashed on. Keep this style coming in the future!
-The other Rich
Thanks Rich. Appreciate it. I enjoyed yours as well. You always hit the important stuff concisely and clearly.
Cheers,
Dan P.
I was most intrigued by the angle of your dangle while you were whacking it. 🤓
😘 hahaha glad you enjoyed the vid.
Cheers - Dan P.
Let's see what happens when it gets cought in the spokes, will a carbon frame snap like a twig?
Holy crap!!! So no need to change to tthe new groupset...! YAY!!!
so what this test showed me, that the normal derailleur hanger is just perfectly fine and easy replaceable, where on the new derailleur you would need to press out a bent pin to replace a part of the parallelogram and then still hope that it might fix the problem. all that for the very cheap price of 1500 dollars.
Nope, no pressing of anything. Two aluminum parts to be replaced, each around $20. We'll post an update on that when we receive them.
Cheers,
Dan P.
This test is damn good and entertaining. Remember that while riding, a 60-130kg rider is on the bike; When the bike is in the bike stand, it is allowed to move a lot, so if someone were to sit on it during the test, I would expect the derailleur to fail sooner. Edit: Saw the sophisticated bracing method, which surely makes the hits harder. Amazing how much the rear mech actually can stomach! I'm just going to buy the older gen axs, its 3k usd in norway for the new one...
the second that dude started talking about the math i knew he would make an excellent programmer and sure enough a couple mins later hes like "yeah i wrote a script to do the math for me"
This is a very good experiment. It looks like the xx1 axs is almost as strong a the new xx/xo rd. it would have been nice if you could x ray the rear triangle of the frame to see if it has caused any microcracks on the carbon fiber frame.
Yup. I think most of us are thinking the same thing, so I'm sure SRAM did all the testing and probably consulted with different frame manufacturers.
I don't see how this doesn't have a negative impact (pun intended) on the carbon though. I'm not an engineer and don't know much about physics, but I do know carbon absorbs force, so I'll have to wait and see some long term testing. Not that I'd buy AXS anyway, but it'll trickle down if it's as good as advertised.
@@topspot4834 only time will tell. always a good thing if it trickles down like what happened to gx. Same thing with a price affordable to the common people.
@@topspot4834
First comment: if you've ever tried to turn a wrench with a very short handle, you'll know that it's nearly impossible to loosen a tightly torqued down nut or bolt. In this case, because the derailleur is mounted immediately next to the dropouts, it really just can't exert all that much force/torque on the frame along the axle. If the derailleur was like 5 feet long though, then a more sizeable force could be exerted on the frame that could possibly cause damage.
Second comment: also from what I've seen (and i may be wrong), it appears the new derailleur isn't actually even mounted to the frame, it's mounted only on the axle on both the inside and outside of the frame dropout. What this means is that any torque exerted on the derailleur from impact on a rock or object will actually be exerted on the axle and not the frame. So per the argument from comment 1 above, it would require a very significant force to bend the axle, and i find it highly unlikely that would occur before something on the derailleur fails.
This fixes a non problem. Seriously this is right up there with Rapid Rise. A good idea that is completely not needed.
That was my initial take, but after learning more about it and spending some time on it, I've changed my mind. We've actually got a second video coming out later today that focuses more on the actual changes, I'll link it here when it's released!
Dan P.
Yeah but the price 🥳 Sram's killing it with drive train cost! I'll keep waiting ✋️
@@AARON818818 Totally fair. Definitely not intended to be a budget system-GX is there for a high quality, less expensive option. One of SRAM's reps described bikes equipped with Transmission as "Ferraris," if that gives you an idea of who they're targeting it.
Cheers - Dan P.
My bent hangers would disagree.
Differential equations and Python code? This has to be your best video yet. Love the details for nerds.
James was an incredible help in this project! I tried to use my 12 year old memory of physics 101 to figure this stuff out and, unsurprisingly, failed. I'm super glad he was able to entertain the project despite being in the middle of his midterms!!
- Dan P.
I loved the video but you don't need python to do a pendulum energy calc!
@danp5812 hey Dan. Thanks for all that info, i subbed to your channel a while back. Keep it up! Thats my fear about that knurled bit! Cheers
you some crazy scientists!
The dropouts on Treks are super weak, would love to see this test on the Trek Fuel ex.
Hanger easier to find and replace. Probably cheaper than axs part too.
This is well done. I think most of us riders have more problems with sticks getting caught in our derailleur where the chain goes in at the bottom more than objects hitting the derailleur. I have destroyed 3 derailleurs by a stick getting caught in the bottom.
this is such a dream job!
The test was great entertainment but I'm still not convinced because it's got the SRAM name on it.
But is the transmission one actually ok after swapping out the part ? and going right up to the force that broke the eagle one which also broke the transmission one kind of leaves out the possibility of showing wether the new ones is weaker than the old one or is there something I am not getting ?
(no hate generally curios)
Get the guy a whole new bike IMO
love the way he solved the Euler-Lagrange equations
I will tell James you said so!
Cheers,
Dan P.
LOVE Fanatik science!
Whoever thought to add the GoPro to the pendulum should get a raise. Great content boys!
I'll tell my boss, hopefully he agrees. - Logan at Fanatik (video guy)
Great video! Plus I think I got my physics degree from just watching Woot!!!
So it looks like the point of failure has been moved to the parallelogram. Which is fine, that means there's something that will break before the frame does. But I'll believe it's rebuild-able when parts actually show up.
Keep an eye out on our social media accounts. We have the replacement parts en route now and once we get them we'll slap them on and get it back on the bike to make sure everything is running smooth again!
Very impressive ! I might have to defect from Shimano... Thanks Guys !
Our pleasure! It is pretty sweet.
You can find it here:
www.fanatikbike.com/pages/search-results-page?q=transmission&page=1&rb_product_type=Groupsets
- Dan P.
would be interesting to see if anything changes when the bike isnt suspended in the air, i think possibly some force was dissipated into rotating the bike, so maybe dropping a guided weight when bike is lying down would generate different results
I destroyed my SLX derailleur. I'm 230lbs. I was going around 6-8mph. A rock shaped like 2 slices of bread got sucked into my rear wheel and literally destroyed my derailleur. I probably would never be able to duplicate the way it went into my wheel. There's always a chance
something unforseen will happen.
Almost the same thing happened to me on my deore derailleur. Was riding slowly over a bridge to a rocky drop and snapped the pulley cage straight off on a rock when riding off the bridge. Thankfully a new deore derailleur is only $60.
Also - would be interesting to see if they introduced the load on the pulley cage either from the side like in this test or from below. I feel like those are the two most likely hits you'll get from rocks when actually riding on the trail that could break a derailleur.
23:18 Dan had the smile of a mad man looking at the destruction 😂
Will it work on my blinged out Huffy w/Ape Hangers?
whats the eta to get a replacement part for the broken transmission part?
Thanks God we don't use to play baseball here in Spain😁
Question. What happens to the cage or jockey wheels with a hit. Does axis work that out?
Need the "branch" test, how may times derailleur hangers die because of a rogue twig. Also I really wonder about the availability of the replacement parts an for how many years they will keep the design before your derailleur is obsolete.
SRAM does have the new Magic Wheel pulley which will keep rolling if a twig gets stuck in there. Not sure how often a twig really gets stuck in a pulley wheel but they did think about your "branch" test to some extent!
Great video but my only reservation about the new derailleur would be that most people I know would carry a spare derailleur hanger. This could be replaced quite quickly and you would be on your way again. Very unlikely that you would have the replacement parts for the new derailleur to hand ahead of time. If you were on a trip somewhere for the weekend say it would be game over unless you could get the parts from a local shop. I accept the new derailleur looks a lot more robust so less likely to break in the first instance but still an issue which we will only know about in the fullness of time. SRAM relying on user testing in the field.
The parts are $22 for the kit, and are actually smaller than a hanger. You could very easily carry them!
We replaced them in this video, the derailleur returned to normal functioning: ruclips.net/user/shortsP9-LFW_PtIU
hey I saw this at crankworks rotorua last Wednesday. Well the 2023 model.
Can we get a linkglide cassette paired with a t type please
Damn, that shit is crazy…
Sram did a amazing job.
Thank you Fanatik for testing it this hard way
Hope you are paying your python coding, diff equation calculating servicemen appropriately! Bringing in people that actually know about engineering and a little physics is what sets this test apart from the others, well done!
In 8+ years, my first full suspension bike with XT 2x10 speed never had the derailleur hanger bent. Never despite falling on the drive side numerous times. Then I got a new bike with sram gx eagle and bent the udh 3 times in one year. Funny thing, I never hit the derailleur in the parallelogram. I always hit it above it, I guess because I was using bigger cogs... Anyway, sneaky move from sram since now they also broke compatibility with shimano...
That xx1 didn't seem completely fine after some of the earlier impacts
That was fun to watch, but you definitely need to have someone seated on the bike for that test. There is a whole lot of energy being dissipated through the clamp and bike stand. The bracing on the opposing side obviously moves too much. Having someone seated on it would stabilize the whole bike from top and bottom to be more real world. As long as there right leg is on the pedal and they have something to brace against, I wouldn't be worried about the impact much. Especially if you start with less weight to make an impact. I would think less weight would be needed to damage the derailleur using that setup.
Great video. It addresses my worries about the new drivetrain.
Overall great video and informative, very helpful! Only question I have is why didn’t you start low and ramp up the tests on the new transmission? You took the first transmission from low to high to find the failure point. However with the new setup you went strait to a high level force and broke it instantly. This just says the same force breaks both, not which one is stronger.
In retrospect, we should have. James had a final exam the next day he needed to got study for, so we were short on time. With that in mind, we figured the new derailleur ought to be at least as strong as the old, so we could start at the weight the old one broke and see how it held up. It did just fine on that first angled hit, and then of course you saw the part of the parallelogram break on the second hit. We then replaced those parts after the fact, and the derailleur is back to shifting like new. You can see that update here: ruclips.net/user/shortsP9-LFW_PtIU
- Dan P.
Did you pull the derailleur off and inspect the frame and flex stays for cracks? That’s what I wanna see.
How did the carbon on the dropouts hold up after these tests?
But will the frame break?
What impress me more is how much the previous gen XX1 can take.
I'm waiting for internal gear boxes come a standard for bikes on all major brands, I know there's afew brands that have them but feel the more other brands do it the better and cheaper the systems will be come. Love santacruz so hope they do it at some point
I've been saying/wanting that for years! Definitely want that tech to develop and improve; whether it's in the bikes/BB or hubs, I'm curious to see where it goes. I've kind of considered getting one of these from Kindernay.
kindernay.com/product/kindernay-xiv/
- Logan at Fanatik (video guy)
@@FanatikBikeCo that looks prity sick around the same price as axs aswell, if u get it deffo a gud video idea testing it, deffo frame integrated at bb would be better having the weight low and less weight on the wheel, see what happens in the future, just got a nomad so won't be in the market for a new rig just yet 🤣🤣
You guys crazy
Could you guys run this test on the GX Transmission derailleur as well? I'm really curious to see how well that one holds up, since when compared to the XX/X0 derailleurs, the full mount brackets are much thinner and made of two separate halves screwed together.
We hoping to do something like that!
-Dan P.
Great video, commenting for the algorithm
Hahahah we appreciate it. Glad you enjoyed it.
- Dan P.
We need a ranking table for all rear mechs. I killed a Shimano XT on it's first ride by cutting a corner with a rock on the inside, money straight in the bin
I'm interested to see what happens if you get an impact when you're in the top gear position... That position seems to carry the most risk for an impact. But the good news is that you'd be going very slowly in that gear.
Are any of these new products backward compatible with existing Eagle components?
Only the remote, actually. The AXS remote is also compatible with Transmission. Those are the only forwards/backwards compatible components.
- Dan P.
you guys need to make an indestrutible bike buld with the fr541 and this :0
I thought the new set up did not use a hanger. Confused but also impressed.
It does not. I suspect you watched the first few tests where we whacked the old AXS system (which actually held up really impressively).
- Dan P.
Fuck I want one of these so bad I'm running shimano rn and it's always out of whack no matter how many times I get it adjusted . Would this fit a Commencal Meta ?
These guys take the test even further. See link below
Would be awesome if you guys show the measures translated to the rest of the world
To me durability is not a problem. The main issue of the product is frame tolerances eg 148 boost dropout can be 150mm and it changes once it's tightened.
You guys should replace the broken piece and then see if it works. I have some doubts sadly. Tons of 12 speed derailleurs don’t look bent to the eye, but are bent enough to cause shifting problems.
Stay tuned!
- Dan P.
Incredible