Why Winterwatcher Didn't Become Canon | Wings of Fire Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- TLDR Winter is too good for Moon and Qinter is the best
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4rcane: "the only fandom with a ship this shippable is miraculous ladybug."
me: LOVE SQAURE
Love tetrahedral
Nice
Honestly I hate when people think a character needs romance to be better. Winter is the type of guy who is not ready to be on a romantic relationship of any sort. He needs to figure out himself. He is now studying scavangers which was practically his dream.
I agree!
Fr
Oh but guess what they did in book 15? They took that away. Are you serious? Go ahead and take away Winter's last scrap of joy and entertainment and self-searching. Sighhhh
@@weallstilldie Wdym? He got his dream job on knowing more about scavengers. He wanted it now he’s there, happy for him.
@@Littlefox1213 They took away scavengers now that they realized they're sentient. Also considering how dragons take human seriously now, they probably don't want weirdos investing their lives into studying other sentient beings.
one thing i want to point out. winter had the right to be mad at moon for being friends with darkstalker, even before he put that spell on him. darkstalker terrorized his tribe for centuries. killing icewings for years with the enchanted dagger that he made in his own book. darkstalker did promise not to use a single bit of magic but as winter wouldve said, he is a rotten lair with barely any good in his dark soul. darkstalker manipulated him into being a submissive puppet. so yeah, i think i would be a tiny bit mad at moon for being besties with darkstalker.
side note:
thanks for showing winter some love because he has already seen enough hate from other people who made a video on him so it makes me feel better about myself
@The_NoiceWing ofc. winter is the best
@@Inkling_dbd besides a lot of people say winterwatcher would be problematic, toxic, etc. it's like saying any NightWing and IceWing couple would be problematic, and arctic was probably only awful to foeslayer (who wasn't all good either) because of his Animus magic that affects him. (Like doing bad things making him do bad things) Winter doesn't have any magic, so honestly I think the ship could go well if done good.
@@amethystthepurplelynel7994 I think Winter at the time of the second arc needed time to recover from his truma and unlearn his hate for nightwings before going forward with any relationship. He simply wasnt in the right head space for anything. But Winter in book 14 def.
@@Inkling_dbd and this is why that ship is ONE of my ships although not my favorite ship
From the beginning i didn't really care who ended up together, as long as everyone accepted it and was happy.
Do i hope Winter gets a love interest? Not really. I hope he can be happy single, get over Moonwatcher (and Qibli 😏) and just live a joyful life.
Same! Glad he seems to be doing such in Sanctuary, but now that scavengers are known to be intelligent he’s gonna be very busy lol
I'm said this before I'm saying again, winter character was saved because of not joining moon was kinda wasted and became a character people only know as the person in a love triangle And really wasn't an interesting character but winter was kinda saved from his fall so I agree with this strongly and qibli backstory was interesting but kinda faded int the background after joining moon
Winter works better on his own as a character i think
what if winter is shipped with scavengers
@@harpie_ ...NO.
I don't really like any of the love triangle ships. I hated how in Qibli's book he kept going on about how "oh Winter deserves Moon more than me" kind of acting like Moon was an object and dating her was the prize that one of them could earn, and what you said for Winterwatcher pretty much. I'm not a huge fan of Qinter because I don't love the dynamic of "funny guy always flirting with the cold mean one who only says mean things but secretly likes the other" and I don't think it would work out too well as a serious long-lasting relationship (though same for all of them lol). But anyways overall I don't care about the arc two characters or ships very much and I'm fine with Moonbli being canon.
I was annoyed with the constant chiming about his feelings about Moon. Like three times I understand but it was happening every several pages and it hit me too close to home in a negative way
Winterwatcher is very…. Problematic. From countless evidence in arc 2, Moon and Winter have both shown not to trust each other as much. Moon goes out of his way to hide things from him, out of fear of being yelled at. Moon also never showed any signs of liking him, just “oh he’s handsome “ Qibli, being one of the only ones that accepted him. I love Qinter, as of what you said, I’ll settle for Moonbli. It’s a bit rushed- but hey, it’s okay.
I mean- Winter needs therapy before any relationship though
I mean... We have a dragonets who grew up mostly alone, an abused one and one who still want to impress the family who sold him.
The three of them should have therapy.
@@cookie856 Scratch that, everyone in WoF needs therapy.
@@draconicenigma2813 Peacemaker doesn't XD
@@cookie856 Well… that could change at any moment…
@@draconicenigma2813 Fair
I’m completely fine with Moonbli since it does make sense story wise so far and is kinda cute. What I don’t like is how I feel like Winter is being left behind now. Since he isn’t going to Pantala (also rip Kinkajou) I’m afraid The Dangerous Gift is the last time we’ll see him. I’m hoping he gets a winglet book showing his growth in Sanctuary or something because he has so much potential for good character development.
I agree,winter had a bad past,you can't blame him
@Kaylee Carpenter I’m not saying she died. I’m saying she never got a book AND she isn’t going to Pantala
Ha, bet you never expected me to respond after 3 months >:)
that's true, and when i read that snowfall chose lynx over winter i was like WHAT THE FUCC? like, despite her massive fear of sending lynx to pantala, she still did it, because.... plot convienience i guess? i really dont get it lmao
Technically, 10:41 is kind of true! Darkstalker's character was based off of a mentally abusive partner Tui once had, and some of the things he's said in Darkstalker Legends are quotes from the real guy. So along with Qibli, who is based off of Tui's son, Darkstalker in a way is the only real one.
It’s funny how people defend DS but he’s based on an actual mental abuser
@@mysryuza Darkstalker apologizers are somethin' else. Even if he wasn't based off a REAL ABUSER...like he tried to turn someone into clearsight to do god know's what with considering he had dreamed of having dragonets with her.
Which when you realize that Moon is basically a self-insert for Tui it gets kinda weird if you think about it too hard.
@@pyronuke4768 I'd hope not, for her sake 😓
I just can't help noticing that 4rcane said ''Hairstorm'' on accident.
Ah yes my favorite IceWing Prince Hairstorm… must have some really weird looking hair
He had a mohawk
As a winterwatcher fan I've had hard time accepting this truth but now I have accepted it and generally think it makes sense for Moon to date Qibli(I won't stop loving winterwatcher tho) but I feel like many forget the reason why Winter act like he does cus he really is a good guy which we can see small hit through the second arc. But I do agree his character development got destroyed after book 7 and that I feel like Tui simply just didn't like him. Then his friends didn't really trust him as for instance if I remember correctly they never told him what happend to Darkstalker, then Moonwatcher kinda ignored that Darkstalker brainwashed Winter which no matter what is a bad move. Anyway I still love Winterwatcher and I hope we get to see more of Winter in the future. Great video though👍
finally another winterwatcher in the comment section lol i understand the points that are being made and that winter is not ready for a serious relationship yet but winterwatcher will always have a special place in my heart xP
@@stormluna9334 lol same, winterwatcher forever.
I love winterwatcher and I shipp them TO NO END, but I understand why Moon choose Qibli, and to be honest, I would have done the same in her place. But I hated how Winters character development just went down hill like it was nothing. Winterwatcher could've happened if Winter changed, and got more chemistry with Moon, BUT NOOOOO. Alright, Maybe Winter didn't need to end with Moon, but why throw his character development in the trash? Bruh.
Winter I miss you :') (he was my favorite character BTW)
To be honest, Winter needs Moon- Quibli can find someone else. I’ll always be a Winterwatcher fan forever.
I think if Winterwatcher became canon their relationship would be extremely similar to Arctic and Foeslayer's relationship, not in a particularly good way.
That is a very good way of phrasing it. Their relationship is just history repeating itself
Except that Moon doesn’t even like winter in that way…like as a friend, like she likes kinkajou and turtle
Winter is like a mini arctic
@@Lynn_Lynn150 i disagree, a big part of why they didn’t work out was arctic’s animus magic
@@james__anna_burns4885 I agree.
It was mainly Arctic's soul being corrupted because of killing innocent dragons when he couldn't think straight and was only trying to do it in the name of love. Even then, he didn't mean to kill those IceWing guards while escaping. He only wanted to stop them. "Oh but Arctic didn't feel comfortable in the Night Kingdom. He wanted his home." Arctic could have moved to a mountainous region in the Night Kingdom for cold or just, idk, make himself invisible to any specific dragon whenever and just go to the Ice Kingdom and have Foeslayer, Whiteout, and Darkstalker visit him. Foeslayer and Arctic is about the most healthy relationship I can IMAGINE in this silly dragon book series. The only thing that stopped it is Arctic’s animus magic, like how Moon and Winter could have (or maybe will) been one of the most healthy ships in the series, Winter just needed external character development, which Qibli had beaten him to, causing a room temperature ship that deflated my expectations. (shhhh don’t tell them this but I think the love triangle was totally unnecessary they’re actually all little babies source: wingsoffirefanon.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Heliosanctus/%22Human_Years%22_to_%22Dragon_Years%22)
Moon and Qibli are genuinely a really good couple. Their relationship wasn’t underdeveloped or rushed and they’re really happy together. Qibli brings Moon’s spirits up whenever she’s feeling hopeless about her goals while Moon strengthens Qibli’s self-esteem by praising him for his deeds and making sure he knows she means it. The two of them are the perfect comforters for the other’s mental issues, and they progressively grew closer to each other throughout all five books of Arc 2. First they learned to trust each other, next they understood and admired the other’s morals and view of the world, afterwards they made an effort to flirt, then they spent time separated and feeling lonely without the other, and finally they reunited and confessed their mutual feelings. As for Winter, he just isn’t ready to be in a relationship. He gets aggravated too easily and has trouble apologizing for his mistakes. He was unnecessarily mean to Moon so many times and didn’t think to make an effort to atone for it. He rarely considered Moon’s opinions on matters and sometimes treated her more like an object than another dragon. He never acknowledged Qibli for all the help he gave him, but instead insulted him for goofing off and damaging Qibli’s already low self-esteem. Winter reminded Qibli of his mother and how she refused to give him any praise no matter how hard he tried to impress her. He mainly wanted to get Winter to like him just to prove to himself that he’s worth existing and that his mother was wrong about him. But that was the opposite of what Qibli needed. He needed someone who could already see the great things about him and would make the effort to let him know and make him feel good about himself. Not to mention neither Winter or Qibli ever canonically felt anything romantic for the other. Moonbli was really the only right way to go if you ask me.
I agree 100%
Couldn't have said it better myself
i agree
Moonbli is okay… like I wouldn’t fight people just cuz they like it, cuz I mean it’s fine ig… just Tui adds small hints in books showing Qibli is kinda selfish, and just wants to give, and to receive attention, to and for Moon, Winter was able to get over quickly, and as the books go further they just get cuter, but the ship wasn’t meant to be, I honestly think that all the 3 of them shouldn’t be with anyone or shipped with each other and their friends cuz it doesn’t fit, Qibli’s selfish, Moon’s naïve, and Winter is just, honestly idk he could find love I bet, and if Kinkajou were to be with anyone I feel like it’d be Turtle only cuz their cute together, even without being spelled, Turtle is very passionate for Kinkajou, and stuff, honestly I feel like I only like the ship if their hood for each other and it’s canon(most of the time) so yeah, also ship whoever you want to ship, I ain’t stopping you!
@@foreversobbing_ you lost me when you said Qibli is selfish.
nobody:
me a quibli x winter shipper: so... we have something in common...
moon watcher x winter shippers: so it seems
“I never thought I’d die fighting alongside a Winterwatcher supporter”
“What about a friend?”
“Aye, I could do that.” -Lord of the Rings
I shipped Winterwatcher at first, throughout a bit of the second arc, but then realized Winter was a massive jerk to her for little reason other than racism towards NightWings pushed on him by his tribe. Even so, that doesn't excuse it, much like racism isn't excused for similar reasons in real life. I like Winter now, because he's kinder and has grown as a character, but why people want Moon to be with someone who yelled, screamed, and threatened her for most of the time she knew him is beyond me, especially because Winter didn't fully become a better dragon until after Moon and Qibli got together
Definitely! He doesn’t deserve Moon as a reward for improving his personality.
Agreed!!!
Agreed! Qibli is a better person for Moon and that’s why she chose him over Winter, but at the same time, I kinda don’t like their relationship because of how forced and rushed it feels. I wish Winter was a better written character as well as Moon’s relationship with Qibli.
@@5rcane He deserves to be forever alone and exiled and forced to be turned into a scavenger as a reward. (You know I’m joking)
You do realize that enemies to lovers is extremely popular, right? It's exciting for some to see characters who'd rather see each other dead end up loving and devoting their lives to one another. And not just in a romantic sense, even Gimli and Legolas from LotR are a good platonic example of this, where they both insult one another at first, but then come to trust one another with their lives. This is one of the reasons why Katara and Zuko is also popular as well, as you can trace their character growth from hated, faceless opponents to ride-or-die companions.
Let’s also remember that Winters family isn’t evil, most IceWing families are that strict, and even if everyone else was not... nice to Winter, Hailstorm was. Meanwhile, all of Qibli’s family was evil, and none of them really loved him
Also, after a few years, Qibli was ‘adopted’ by Thorn, and surrounded by better role models. On the other hand, Winter was only at JAM for a small amount of time.
@@cluckerchick9425 this comment made me realize that Jade Mountain Academy is JAM. someone please do something with this.
@@childeofepickness that would be Jade academy mountain
Yeah equivalencies family is kind of evil and he’s not a Butthead
@@weallstilldie Ikr
My one contention with Moonbli being canon is Qibli's history of idolizing nurturing figures in his life. Cobra sold him on a whim, in his presence, after years of emotional and physical abuse. Qibli desperately wanted a mother figure who loved him and nurtured him and approved of him, so he turned to Thorn. While Thorn did have Qibli's general growth at heart, I don't think she really sees him as a son, more of an asset for her gang. That's not to say Thorn is a bad mother, no. I'd compare her and Qibli's relationship to Vander and Powder's from Arcane; they simply needed different things from one another and it caused friction no one intended. Simply coming into conflict over different expectations doesn't make one party or another bad.
In Darkness of Dragons, years after Cobra sold him, he still desires her love and approval (which is understandable, you need that from your mother, but I think he's licking maple trees hoping for sap). In Moon Rising, Qibli was more concerned with returning to Thorn's side, being useful to her, desiring her love and approval.
....And as soon as Moon becomes his friend, he treats her the same way he's treated his mother and his boss. Someone to please in the hopes that they'll love him back.
I don't ship anyone in the love triangle. Frankly, Winter still needs time to redefine himself from his childhood, Moon (as of DoD's epilogue) has only had a social life for a year and needs to know who she is as an individual before she knows who she is in a relationship, and Qibli needs time to define himself beyond what he thinks his mother, his boss, and his girlfriend think about him.
Personally I think that winter is kinda toxic and not fit for moon. He yells at her all the time, and he thinks everyone else should apologize for stuff he did. He is reckless and only thinks for himself most of the time.
While I do think Qibli is a better match for moon, I personally like moon single or moon with Kinijou. They're just kinda wholesome together, and they bring out they best in each other.
THANK YOU. As cute as Turtle and Kinkajou could be, I'd love Moon and Kinkajou and I'd actually also like Winter and Qibli. That being said, I don't mind Moon and Qibli together
Well there was a time Winter yelled at Moon for being friends with Darkstalker. She deserved it though, since Darkstalker was doing all of those horrible things and Winter was knocking sense into her.
I'm such a winterwatcher and it was so hard for me to accept that moonli was the thing and I'm trying to make a art of winterwatcher bc it still exists as canon in my heart
Quinter legit has the best chemistry ever and if they got together I wouldn't be disappointed. It is legit the best thing ever and it genuinely works because the way they interact and everything else is perfect.
I’m kind of hoping for a Winter x Lynx, but that relationship would be a bit complicated since Lynx will probably be traveling to Pantala in the next book.
I think I read online that that's canon now, idk though, might just be a ship or something. Also by now you probably already know this XD
Tui has said herself that winterwatcher isn’t canon bc she wanted better for moon, explaining that winter is the dragon who would need to be ‘fixed’ and assumingly, moon would help him. But she didn’t wanna go that direction bc she wanted Moon to be truly happy.
Yes, this is also the same author who can't figure out what direction to take half of her protagonists after she's finished their POV. It happened to Clay, Starflight, Sunny, Moon, Winter, Turtle, and Blue; as well as arguably Tsunami and Peril. And don't get me started on the mess of contradictions that is Arc 3.
@pryonuke476 Wdym? Can you elaborate a bit? I’m confused, but I genuinely want to know what you mean
I already replied this to someone but I think I should share it with everyone.
I have to disagree. He grew up in a troubled environment, belittled by his parents and siblings, stuck in a society that is the definition of "privilege determines everything" and just came out of a war. Life is always a character determination, and the fact that he was able to grow out of it in the end is amazing, because even in real life people may never get the chance to grow and let go of their past. It is unfortunate that he struggled so long that Moon ended up with Qibli, because I do not like Qibli, but that's another discussion. He couldn't change in time, and that's fine. Circumstances didn't allow it. He needed time and Moon moved on, that's life. But I will not go on a basis opinion that he was just flat out awful and should NEVER get Moon, because that's not the case. He could've gotten Moon if he was able to open up, but he struggled with that, and I sympathize with him for that. His life could've been better, but he wasn't ready. Anyways, that's just my two cents.
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I have a lot of mixed feelings about the love triangle. For starters, Moonbli is a good pairing: they have good chemistry and a strong foundation, but the writing is just so *bland* they barely have any romantic scenes until the very end of arc 2, and in arc 3 it's your vanilla lovely-dovey couple. Winterwatcher is a poor pairing, but it was way better implemented in his POV than Qibli's. It seriously feels like Tui decided early on that Moonbli was her OTP, but she forgot to include scenes of them interacting in arc 2 and arc 3 feels like she's trying too hard to compensate. It's kind of a red flag when the fan ship Qinter has more interesting dynamics in canon than your flagship pair.
I personally think that Winterwatcher should have happend because Qibli has a mother (Thorn) who loves him, and he has everything like a home and a safe place to go, but Winter doesn’t. All he has is 2 parents that would kill him if he came back to the ice kingdom, a sister who betrays everyone, and a brother who still thinks he is a Skywing. I personally think that Winter should have ended up with Moonwatcher because he is a lonely dude and not Qibli.
Thank you for reading
@Kaylee Carpenter ok nine year old, brb
@@LakeEatsDirt I’m 22
@Kaylee Carpenter I hate book 10
@@baykeen09 i was talking to kaylee carpenter..
@@LakeEatsDirt oop srry
In my honest opinion I feel like Winter would be abusive to Moon. I don't know why but I see so many red flags. And how at points he tried to control Moon.
I don't think so tbh. It's like saying all night-ice relationships would be toxic. Arctic was bad to foeslayer because of his magic affecting him. Yeah he was similar to Arctic but went through character development. And I don't think he's abusive: he felt terrible for his actions, he feels guilty but doesn't use it as an advantage. Yeah he yelled at Moon once but it was to knock sense into her when she tried to befriend Darkstalker.
Aww… I love winter and he is still my fave and I wish he got moon still. DONT DISAGREE HES SO CUTE
I don't think dovewing x tiger(heart)star is a bad boy vs good boy. Since bumblestripe was really wasn't a interest for dovewing and more a guilt tripped one. More of a "true love vs a 'nice' guy."
I Read warriors too but isn't this a wings of fire video
That’s more like Bluestar, Thrushpelt and Oakheart
in the end of the video, when you are listing relationships where the girl chooses the "badboy", you mentioned Tigerheart and Dovewing. The only other choice for Dovewing was Bumblestripe, who was controlling and manipulative, although less then Bramblestar. I stand by Dovewings decision, although she could have chosen no one. But then Bumblestipe would be hostile and possibly try to manipulative her more, if she was still in ThunderClan.
i feel like moon and winter was going to be like arctic and foeslayer, and that would be a very big oopsie
i am crying forever bc most likely he wont get anyone to love him 😢
Winter showed a lot of development. And I hope that he and Moon can be together. To show that ice wings and night wings can be one. Like a better version of Artic and Foeslayer.
What I liked the most about how this turned out is
1- they didn't bastardize anyone's personality to make their jobs easier
2-they didn't have bigotry handwaved by love
3- Winter got what he needed most- friends and a support network. He needed that way more than he needed a gf. I think current winter would have never gotten over his bigotries if he had gotten with moon prior to character growth. Similar to how foeslayer and artic went.
Yes, exactly. We should be proud that Winter had found the right support system which isn’t his tribe. He doesn’t need Moon because he has a crush on her or that he’s been through so much pressure that it caused him to almost act ambitious. He’s found the right community of dragons, and who knows, in the future he could communicate with Wren and learn how to speak the scavenger‘s native language. He’s doing fine without Moon, figuring out what he likes to do and what he should do next after leaving the Ice Kingdom. I hate Winter, his personality mixed around in the arc a lot, though he’s the first character I’ve ever hated to be proud of the most.
i'm still a winterwatcher fan heh, i know its years later and its called me just loving their stupid characters together. i don't like qibli as I just dislike his full characteristics as they feel like qibli doesn't really care ab relationships. i would like to see qibli single as i feel like it makes sense seeing him on his own away from other dragons. his character is just a 2nd to winter till dod when moonbli was canon, but its boring and i don't like it. their relationship has no struggles, no ups and downs, no real chemistry you swoon after like winterwatcher has. it makes me almost uncomfortable to read how they're canon as i, someone who has read the books for almost a decade, has felt about winter n moon together. its weird to see qibli in a relationship, and i rlly hope winter gets some redemption, because istg winter will become like certain warrior cats characters that r just tossed and disliked.
I like Qibli more then Winter, but I ship Moon with Winter. I just feel they had better potential.
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 they did, qibli was a cool character but their relationship (qib n moon) feels boring and predictable
To be honest I would love to see winter without a relationship because it would be an example of a character who doesn’t need a love interest to make them better
Exactly like Sunny
@@Littlefox1213yea
Honestly, moon was a wasted character, no development after her book, and had no attraction to qibli until he saved the world, she does nothing to the relationship, and only thought of him platonically her entire book
Edit: tbh, I know this is a very joke-like and unpopular opinion, but qibli and winter had a better relationship, so in a real life setting, (ignoring the whole sexual attraction and knowing which you are) they would be more likely to fall in love, since they
-joke around more
-hang out more
But with moon,
-no jokes, she doesn’t act different around them, etc
I honestly think Qinter would be kinda a cute ship, but when problems start to actually occur, I feel like arguments could get in the way; qibli will try to use jokes and humor and his own logic to help out winter, when he is at his worst. winterwatcher really wouldn't work out, though I do think that winter had a crush on moon (for some reason) but moon is a delicate flower on her own, and winter might just use moon to dump his feelings on. moonbli is a rlly nice ship tbh, qibli is kind and funny and makes moon feel at ease, as she is a shy dragon, and qibli is just that protective guy, loyal and sweet. :)
It’s funny how when I was reading the series more often in high school I was “dude just tell her dammit” but felt that Qibli would be a better partner.
I just care that my favourite characters get together but thanks for the reasoning
*(POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T FINISHED/READ BOOK 10)* The only problem I kinda have with Moonbli is the fact that Qibli will sometimes make fun of Winter and his how the IceWing tribe is. Even if he’s trying to be “funny” it’s not nice, and he should know not to mess with Winter because Winter has indeed shot Qibli with frostbreath before but that was for a different reason under Darkstalker’s spell. In book 10 (pg 215-216) when they’re heading to the lost city of night with Anemone, Winter mentions why he cannot go because apparently every IceWing who goes there has never came back alive. Impatient Anemone asks why they’ve stopped, and Qibli responds with: “Winter thinks the mountains are going to eat him,”
.
Winter protests that he does not, but it will definitely kill him. Anemone mentions that a whole bunch of dragons flew over a few days ago. Winter tells her they *lived* because *they’re not IceWings. Qibli who cannot keep his mouth shut says: “The mountains only eat IceWings,” and he says it with a straight face. Winter LITERALLY* hisses at him, and tells him to stop. Qibli does, but that whole conversation was rude overall. Almost as if Qibli is being racist towards Winter’s tribe.
Also, Winter never really had loving parents. So his dragonethood was almost similar to Qibli’s, and *YES* I know Qibli probably deserved Moon way more than Winter did but he didn’t have to legit make fun of Winter’s tribe.
When I first read the second Wings of Fire arc, I wanted Moon and Winter to get together as a sort of 'Foeslayer and Arctic done right'. In fact, I was so head over heels for this ship that when I heard what happened with Winter in Darkness of Dragons (along with Darkstalker), I was so angry and upset that I refused to finish the second arc.
I'm older now and after finishing the first and third arcs, I decided to give the second another chance, keeping a close eye on that infamous love triangle as I did. After finishing Darkness of Dragons, I safely said that Qibli was the best choice for Moon, and that Winter still had a lot to learn and was nowhere near ready for a relationship, and I still stand by that mindset. As for the Qinter ship, I'd say its amusing, but aside from the hilarious banter I don't see much chemistry or possibility for it.
Either way, I'm glad I moved on from the Winterwatcher mind-set because it would've been Foeslayer and Arctic all over again if it became canon, and not in a good way. I'm also glad that I gave the second arc another chance because its my favorite of all the arcs, and Darkness of Dragons is one of my Top 5 favorite books in the series. Unpopular opinion, I know since everyone else in the fandom hates it
(for those wondering what my opinion on Darkstalker's fate, while I still think it could've been executed better, I'm coming to terms with it).
I don't think it would have ended up like Arctic and Foeslayer, I am not sure why people keep on saying that other than both being nice Nightwing and toxic Icewing.
The biggest (and most important) difference that I see is that Arctic went from being nice, to mean, after he killed the gaurds.
Winters situation was the complete opposite, he was raised to act the way he did around moon, and his position in the rankings would have been demolished otherwise. But as he spent more time with Moon, he frequently questioned (and eventually overcame) what he was taught, all because of Moon.
The usual counterargument to this is that Winter still didn't fully trust Moon after this. My argument is-- How could he? Every instance he exploded was at a secret Moon kept, or a decision that contradicted his culture, for example, Moon saying Darkstalker was good-- How could Winter truly believe this, especially after Darkstalker enchanted him, and killed Glacier, who wasn't only his queen, but also his family.
------------------
IMO the only 'realistic' reason Qibli 'won' was because he snatched her up before Winter could figure himself out, which is unfair, since Qibli already had good role models before going to Jade mountain.
Trust. Trust is the foundation of all relationships. Winter doesn't trust Moon after certain events, unlike Qibli, who helps Moon get over it.
I agree with you 4rcran Qibli x winter is the best ship, but I respect those who don't.
Soo cute when he did that sketch of moon 😍 he wanted her to like him soon much
Ok, so this is what I got from the vid and description, (also please don't attack me, this is just what I got from the video.)
So you said that winter and moon wouldn't work out, which I agree with wholeheartedly, but I don't agree with some of your reasoning, for instance, in the 7th book, you say that moon glossed over winter being brainwashed, but I disagree, she didn't even get the chance to, (but I am a little rusty on the details) because in her defense, winter did kinda burst out on her suddenly, attacking her for something she didn't know about, smashing the vase next to her, and she seemed distressed about the fact that he had been enchanted, but winter seemed to angry to listen or answer, and he has yelled at her like this many times, and prevented himself from being near her, calling her "Nightwing" bluntly, and being extremely racist towards her, getting angry at her for things he didn't understand, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but you have to understand, moon was the only one to have been born under two moons for years, and had to go through immense pain for all her life, and found someone who brought her extreme relief, she couldn't help but trust darkstalker, but she still confronted him about it, that's just something people don't get, in moonrising, she has a full on panic attack, sobbing and screaming for her clawmates not to go in the history cave, she saved lives, and did it (mostly) independently, saving their lives and winter just accused her of murder?! Out of the Blue! (Pun intended.) And that's only half of the pain I can imagine her having to go through, hell, she even showed pain delivering the prophecy, and winter still acts like a piece of crap towards moon, I get in a situation of brainwashing is important, but you can't say anything about her "not caring" moon and qibli were the best choice in my opinion, otherwise, it would have turned out a lot like foeslayer and arctic, but that's just my opinion, please tell me if I got anything wrong as well.
Hey! LOVE the art, just a tip! Next time draw icewings with pale blue inside ears, as their blood is blue!
Ok i just have to say this one thing after this the art style is so cute and good! And winter would have blue inside of the ears as ice wings are cold blooded (if I remember correctly)
Winter and moon belong together I don’t care what anyone thinks about them the belong together
moonbli is alright, but..
qibli is too dependent on moon. shes his moral compus; in book 10, despite every other risk to him, winter, and especially turtle, she is the first thing he thinks about.
with canon moonbli, qibli would just be the sad puppydog waiting at the door for his owner to come home from her life and responsibilities. its not great.
and, also, it doesnt have a lot of substance honestly. its really... boring, and bland, and basic.
it makes sense why it happened, but personally i just do not enjoy.
......also tui 1000000000000000% sabotaged winters character in book 10 to set up moonbli.
Agreed. Every single book, Winter's character reset.
@@twlightnightfall1315 mhm! hes only consistent from 6-7 and after that, every time hes first introduced in a book hes noticably different
@@susiepilled Tbh it feels like most of the original dragonets' character development was ruined in arc 2. Minus Glory.
I really didn't like Winter at first so I liked Moonbli better anyway, but I like him now. Qinter is 100% the superior ship. At least it COULD be possible, even if there's only a small chance. Unlike in Warrior Cats- still love that series though. ANYWAY- I LOVE Qibli. He is my favorite character besides Fathom and Turtle. I always thought he deserved Moon more than Winter, but I kinda felt bad. As I said before, I do like Winter a lot better than I did at first, but I don't ever see Moon liking him back.
Let’s be real Qinter is as toxic as Winterwatcher. Winter treated Moon like an enemy as much as Winter treated Qibli like a piece of trash.
Though Winter could have actual conversations with Kinkajou and Qibli, at least anyone else who wasn’t a NightWing. He doesn’t know how to talk to Moon, or anyone without yelling at them. I find it very out of character for him to return grumpy right after book 7. In book 7, he could actually have conversations with Moonwatcher. Now all he does is yell at others, I thought his character arc was worth something at the end of his book, not at the end of the whole arc.
I ship none of em there fine single and moon is only 4 a lot can happen in a few years I do agree it’s like artic x foeslayer all over again
Unrelated but I’ve always pronounced Qibli as Ci-bli :P
I honestly hope Qinter becomes cannon, as of Moon and Qibli having absolutely NO chemistry and no cute scenes either, but then, there are like, A LOT of cute Qinter scenes, AND they have more chemistry than Moonbli and Winterwatcher COMBINED, as of those two having NO CHEMISTRY AT ALL . (Not to offend ANY moonbli or winterwatcher shippers, this is just my personal opinion) Also, Qibli can help Winter with his anger issues, and Winter can help Qibli with his family issues.
I’d mainly ship Moonbli or Qinter. . I loved the scene in Moon Rising when Qibli is helping Moon look for the dragon who set the bomb. I think they connected well there, also because Qibli still trusted Moon even if she revealed her secret a little late, he wanted to help her.
Though for Qinter- it was indeed Qibli making jokes about how Winter likes him but yes, they show good chemistry in Book 10. Qibli and Winter do both have an awful family(Not Hailstorm) Perhaps they could help each other, as friends or enthusiasts. I’ve said this to myself before and I think it makes sense-
Book 6: Focusing on Moon and Qibli
Book 7: Focusing on Moon and Winter
Book 10: Focusing on Qibli and Winter (With Moon there at the end)
I don't have much to say about Winterwatcher- I just didn't like it-
"Voss"
It's VASE!
I know this video was from like 2 years ago but it cracks me up to be reading the comments and just seeing all of the contreversy that is actually like, formal contreversy, but then there's me over here shipping all three of them like simultainously so i might as well be just like called out for this. My mom likes winterwatcher and honestly i dont get how its her favorite ship bc im shipping my crack ship and wanting to find more of them
funny stuff
I like all 3 but qinter is really great
I know this video is a few months old but I feel it’s right to say I ship Winter and Qibli, I mean in the book Qibli is with his mom she’s like something like, “Oh, so your marrying an ice wing.” And Qibli responded like, “Of course I am, he follows me around everywhere he lovesss me.” I know they didn’t exactly say that but like another thing is as they say Qibli is almost only fully nice to Winter sooo yeah
Ok ok. I get why Winterwatcher isnt canon, but i still ship it. Lemme tell you why. So, its understandable that winter is racist to night wings. Its literally built into icewings lives since they were born. Winter needed moon to stop being grumpy all the time. My opinion, but tell me why not lol. (not trying to be rude)
i like your points here! Winter was highly hostile to Moon and if they did become canon, originally i feel like itd be highly toxic! and yes QINTER! :D
I mean the nightwings have deceived and had a bloody history with icewings and other tribes so it wouldn't be odd if winter was warry about moon or would be on gaur I know I would and plus how is he supposed to know that grew up in a rainforest
Heya! I really enjoy your content and I have a suggestion for improving your line reads! I would reccomend typing out the pages you're going to read and double space/1.5 space the lines.
I think this can help you from stumbling over your lines.
Also! Doing speech warm ups prior to recording can help as well ^^
This is a lot in the future from when this video was made but if anyone watches it now Moonbli is confirmed cannon at this point I did research and figured it out they won’t break up so to all the Moonbli shippers (like me) they will stay together
Qinter is the true end goal in my mind
Ultimately, while I don't necessarily think I agree with the framing, I'd agree quite well with the conclusion.
It's not so much that Winter is bad for Moon, or that Moon doesn't get something out of it.
It's down simply that I honestly don't think Moon is good for Winter.
Moon has made him question his presuppositions created from his tribe, yes, but all of that is essentially 'over' by the end of his arc. Arguably by the end of Moon's book, really, given it doesn't seem to be much of a fought over choice even to release Foeslayer. Honestly, I'd argue he was likely to do so, even without meeting Moon, though it certainly helped him not see Nightwings as inherently enemies.
When it is boiled down, Winter is a principled dragon. He's not just a good hearted dragon, inclined to do what helps others without thinking. He's a firm, strong view of right and wrong. One that isn't just a 'feeling' of it, but rather, well reasoned. It's why he cares about scavengers, insisting on rescuing them even at the potential danger and disastrous result were he to be caught. He isn't like Moon, for instance, who has a simple sympathetic reaction. His reasons are logically founded. It is a principled necessity to save them, as opposed to an emotional connection.
This is why I find them a bad fit. Moon is not a principled dragon. She's inclined towards good, yes, but repeatedly she must be questioned on what's actually done. She insists Darkstalker is a good dragon, in spite of all he's done, because of this. And unlike Qibli, her reaction when it's explained just why what Darkstalker is doing is so crooked, when she's told what Darkstalker plans to do and is doing to the Icewings, is to shatter.
She does not deal well with these questions. It's something she needs improve upon, but Winter is not the dragon to do it, and I think she'd only serve to make him doubt himself, feel like he's done something wrong in these instances, feed on to the self-hatred he's garnered instead. I don't really see their relationship, at least at the end of the book, working out well, as a result. Moon'd go back to the fearful and paranoid dragon she was at the start, and Winter'd be sharp and regretful while slowly losing his edge.
As much as I dislike it, Qinter is definitely a more productive result for the pair.
Qibli is more than happy to challenge Winter's preconceived notions, and does so haphazardly, often without really meaning to.
He's also a thorough thinker, and so rather than melting under Winter's pressure, he can see exactly what Winter means, and why he's right. He's the mind for philsophy, which his lifetime of living amongst thieves has denied him.
It's a bad move to dwell on morality whilst living a criminal life. And so, he's neglected that. Winter, on the other hand, is learning to follow his own morality, rather than the one taught to him. Now, I'd argue this was already done at the end of his lot, both with his sacrifice for Hailstorm and his exile to Sanctuary, but nonetheless it doesn't all go away overnight, and Qibli could certainly help him.
To close it all up, I guess, my main disagreement really comes down to the framing of Winter as a 'bad boy', or that his attraction to Moon is a rebellion.
I don't see Winter as the type to throw away values so cheaply. Rather, I'd say it's a consequence of his ability to see even Scavengers as people, and so extend that to dragons even among enemies.
He, I think, fell for Moon because she's a particularly beautiful dragon, and if anything let her dominate his mind more because he was insistent he shouldn't have such feelings, rather than a 'rebellion'.
As to the 'bad boy' thing, well, fundamentally, I just don't see Winter as bad. "Bad boy" is usually reserved as I see it for those rough types who ignore the rules, living for themselves and no one else.
Winter is a dragon defined by his values, who tries his damnedest to stay true to the rules, and defines himself more by sacrifice than selfishness.
Is he cruel, harsh, and spikey? Sure. But, honestly, Qibli always struck me more as a 'bad boy'. Were it not for his ties to the queen of the sandwings, or at least the sudden legitimacy of the bandit queen, the assassin's son turned bandit lieutenant seems to rather perfectly fit the bill.
Though I'll grant that is largely surface level.
My main issues with Qinter is Qibli's character, namely his zealous level of devotion to Thorn, again a bandit queen who certainly does not have her snout clean given what little we saw of her with things like Preyhunter.
Loyalty is one thing, but his desire to just give her a magic book that lets you do whatever you want without a thought was a little concerning.
But, then again, like I said Winter's good for him, and so it's quite possible a relationship between the pair may shake that.
This comment right here is exactly why I find Winter to be one of the most interesting characters in the fandom, and why I get so steamed over Tui's decision to straight up write him out of the arc's ending; it's a disservice to everything he was being built up towards.
Like, I get why Tui did it, but did she really have to do him so dirty like that??
*trust me, the mlb shipping is a nightmare.*
Was up again and the general relationship between all of them are a lot healthier although I agree he kind of got screwed over in the end of the last book it was a very fair to him but I think everybody was being over emotional at that point and that he only got ignored because the moon was busy freaking out
But in general they wouldn't be a good couple he's not as sensitive and moon doesn't take his feelings into account either
The only way they'd work as a relationship with if qibli was there too. He showed a remarkable ability to understand both of them and would have to be between them for the two of them to work
What number of book where you reading some of the parts from the video? Like the part where moon, Qibli,and winter where fighting?
I honestly don’t care who Moon ends up with. Either it being Moonbli, Winterwatcher, or even Qibler. But I do like Moonbli a lot, and I also want Winter to stay straight so his awesome personality won’t change. But still, I won’t care who ends up with who :)
What does not being straight have to do with his personality changing...?
@@polkadot9505 A lot of times lgbtq characters are stereotyped. :(
The love triangle was so rediculous٫ I just think Tui should have got to the point that Qibli and Moon are together. Although I hated the love triangle٫ Moonbli may have never happened. I ship winter with lynx٫ I just think they are so cute together. (i dont ship lynxfall because I think they are more like sisters٫ and to be honest I think snowfall doesn't even like lynx that much.)
Also he gets so made when qibli is super nice to moon😂
WAIT DID WE EVEN mention Qible X winter I don't really ship it I don't think anyone mentioned it in the comments
He is why you treat others with respect
I love Moonbli. It's great :) But people who ship Qinter are not my favorite people
Winter X Moonwatcher forever! Change my mind.
I never really cared about winterwatcher or moobli, I was always hoping for qinter, but to be honest we didn't even have a chance. Sure Tui threw some joking moments out there but you could tell her main focus was on winterwatcher and moonbli, QINTER DESERVES JUSTICE
I don't mind Moonbli, but I think it's a bit telling when your fans come up with a ship that has better dynamics than the one you tried writing seriously.
Okay, are we gonna brush overthe fact, while everyone was sleeping and kinkajou was getting a pencil, winter says "i just hope i never hurt you." Yes, that is the actual quote from the book. If kinkajou didnt come back at the time winter was about to probably hug moon, then moon would probably help him, show nightwings arent THAT bad, probably shed still choose qibli, but i feel moon would gk to winter now hes a better dragon after qibli constantly being around her to protect her, as thats what he does. Wjnter couldve been such a better dragon, but, as tui hates icewings and favours sandwings, she butchered him. Lemme just tell you why tui hates icewings.
Their social structure. If you cant be emotionless, you are worthless
They have the tiniest teritory
She sent out a fricking plauge to kill all of them
She made them lose animus magic
Tui gave them the least of abilities, withstand cold, bright lights have have an ice breath. Pretty generic, if you ask me.
She barley makes bokks about them, the books are either fillers or the characters are just sad
SHE WROTE ONE TO DISEMBOWL HIMSELF AT THE TALON OF HIS OWN SON GODDAMNIT
Heres why she favours sandwings.
Biggest teritory
Has literally 5 books written around them. (sandwing succsesion)
A sandwing naturally born with animus magic
Saved the entire icewing tribe
The most op thing (like, seriously one scratch from their tail and you are dead)
Jerboa stopped the ENTIRE LINE of animus magic because she got teleported once, and what did she lose? Her fricking barb. A SPELL LIKE THAT SHOULDVE KILLED HER!!
And thats what i can think of the top of my head. Thanks for listening to my rant.
This… doesn’t necessarily mean that Tui HATES Icewings. I don’t think you right
Mudwings: Am I a joke to you?
@@grAnita- keep in mind, those are the things i can think off the top of my head. Thouh she may not hate them, i still say she strongly dislikes them.
Sandwings are my least favourite tribe, above silkwings at most.
I just feel she could have revived them, and i hope she does, same with mudwings and skywings, theyre probably the 3 most ignored tribes, with our only skywing book be about a firescales, why cant we just have a normal dragon? Our mudwing boi was a DoD, and our icewings were stuck in a school or is a queen. Like, tui, cant we have a few normal dragons in books?
@@Synrix I totally agree, my friend
Because I don't feel like typing a lot rn, imma just say. I think Moonbli is the best ship. I say this because of Darkstalker. I don't wanna explain it. Very self-explanatory.
Moonbli is a great pairing. They have good chemistry, a solid foundation, and some cute moments. Too bad the writing was executed so stale.
If Moon and Qibli are to break up I do hope that Winter ends up with one of them
i know exactly why because WINTER IS ABUSIVE. hes not a good dude, no matter what winterwatcher fans or just winter fans in general say. winter is not good, face it, yall.. he just ISNT. how is winter too good for moon? he YELLED AT HER MULTIPLE TIMES, EVEN AFTER HE FELT FEELINGS FOR HER. his book was zero excuse for his behavior. sure, its traumatizing to lose a sibling but since when is it worth abusing ur crush? never.
For the fans of wof aparently everything is abusive, have you interact with real people?
@@Amanecer458 not many, although i have some. listen, he was awful. would U yell at ur crush because u lost a sibling? the answer should be a no. i get it is horrific to, but his behavior was in no way valid, no matter what happened.. he yelled at her even after he knew Hailstorm was okay, too. while i dont like Moonbli either, i find Winterwatcher the worst wof ship because of how terrible Winter is. there is plenty of other abusive characters, but i found Winter one of the worst. examples include Darkstalker and Scarlet. i get it, we have opinions, but this is mine, and u should let me have it. i am in no way telling u what to think. i am telling u what i think.
I feel bad for the winter watcher shippers but in the end we all see how moon chose Qible..but I personally don't care who moon ends up with
18:27 I disagree winter
Is not a sociopath he didn’t come back to the winglet because of selfish reasons he came back because he enjoyed it more there is literally dialogue in the book that proves that I don’t think winter is perfect he’s quite the opposite but you’re interpreting what he’s his actions wrong The theme of winter returning I guess is be with the people you love different tribe or not and what you are saying about winter goes against the themes of the book you literally have no evidence to back up that winter wanted to come back to the wing boots for selfish reasons All the evidence goes against that
1:50 …
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim Fatty, and basically every other evil dictator… : Did you say something?
I am a total winterwatcher and I have had Quiblis thoughts before at school
Winter jsut isn’t ready for anything. Moon does help him yes, he is learning but Moon doesn’t not deserve to be with someone she has to take care of. That isn’t a healthy relationship, Wayne if Winter isn’t a bad person (He just had a bad run and is redeemable)
I can see the appeal of the ship, but it just isn’t a good relationship, not until Winter has gone through a lot to improve himself.
Not very in depth, but I do feel like people skip over the obvious of Moons side of the relationship. Winter might need her but it Moons job to help him. Qibli and her have a relationship that they both benefit from, simple as that. They like eachother and it is an equal relationship between both of them.
Hehe, take a shot every time I say ‘relationship’ (n]don’t actually, no underage drinking y’all)
Oh god there were so many typos in that
Dovewing choosing tigerheart is more in the grey area, Bumble stripe is abusive by trying to force her to love him by love bombing with compliments. Although tiger heart isnt any better or worse. they both dont treat her well. (also, bumble stripe in the newer arcs is definately not a good boi) dove wings relationship with tiger heart starts when SHES AND APPRENTICE too. im not sure about bumble stripe, though its probably the same.
Qibili was infinitely better equipped for the moon than winter ever was, I still am confused by people ship these two.
I also don’t believe Qibli or Winter had a very developed relationship with Moon. They kinda just think about how beautiful and smart she is, and since they were both away from her for so long in their arcs it felt as though the relationships were bland. And when Winter was around Moon in his book he was usually kinda mean? And I saw no chemistry at all, both Qibli and Winter have a rather bland relationship with Moon. And for people saying Winter NEEDS Moon, he doesn’t need her as a romantic partner, he needs a friend.
why are yall talking about qinter when the comments are for winterwatcher and moonbil argueing?
To be honest, i never liked winterwatcher, but i think that moon made winter a kinder more compassionate dragon, even if he didn't trust her in the beginning. He had emotional outbursts at her because he was conflicted on who he was and what he wanted, because he grew up in a judgemental, bad family. He was judged for or if he felt empathy to them because most of them WERE horrible dragons; they DID take arctic, they DID take animus magic, they DID lie to the entire continent.
So that’s how you say Gibil’s name?
as a wintbli fan, i dont really care if any ships work out. Im just pertending my wings of fire covers are actually the dragons
I ship Qwinterwacher. The perfect ship
My favorite ship is Starglight and Fatespeaker.
This would be like Arcticslayer and not in a good way they would fight and it would probably effect their kids if they had them and I’m glad this ship isn’t cannon
OHMYGOSHOHMYGOSH I KNOW THE MUSIC AT 15:23 GOOD SONG CHOICE ITS ONE OF MY FAVORITES :D
I can accept that moon chose Qibli but I just think moon could have mellowed out winter like how we see in the latest book.
Forget Winterwatcher, forget Qinter, forget Moonbli, I think we all know the superior ship is qinterwatcher
Hi, Winter.
Moonwatcher hows life?
Fine, how about you?
Bruh that’s the evil cat from warriors
@@crystalplayz3514 I was Moon 8 months ago.
@@Beulraeki ohhhhh
I still ship Winterwatcher. Winter risked everything for her. And he lost it all. She should have just told him how bad he was being, and he would realise! Instead, she hides it for no reason other than convenience. That really annoyed me. Qibli was only just nice to her, nothing more. He (Qibli) was ridiculously obsessed about Moon, giving me the creeps. Moonbli was incredibly rushed. Winterwatcher was given realistic time to form. That’s why I ship Winterwatcher.
THANK YOU
I feel like Winter risked much more for his brother, Hailstorm, then what he risked for Moon, and that’s a good thing lol. And it is annoying how the books doesn’t let Moon tell him how bad he is, Qibli does it once but it isn’t brought up again. I don’t think Winter is ready for a relationship considering everything he went through and that it would be better for he and Moon to remain friends.
Moonbli (Moon x Qibli) - Acceptable yes mhm
WinterWatcher (Winter x Moon) - That's- toxic. But I do admit I kinda wished Winter and Moon ended up together (with Winter having like a 180 character change at the end of the arc and maybe they got together further down in the future arcs)
But. *Inhales-*
QUINTER. (Qibli x Winter) I WANTED QUINTER THE MOST---- HDSHSAHAA LOL