You Won't Believe How Much This V8 Ferrari Cost To Maintain From NEW!
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- Опубликовано: 13 мар 2022
- I examine ALL the costs to maintain this Ferrari 360 Modena from new.. with one single bill for more than £45,000 pounds. This Ferrari 360 has racked up an incredible 173,000 miles, surely one of the highest mileage Ferraris in the world and maintenance has not been cheap.
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The engineer who 'designed' the clutch retired on the Amalfi coast, aged 50, due to the huge bonuses he earned for this masterstroke.
Seriously?
So without the crash - and - if a clutch re-learn had been done at each service (as recommended by the factory) it was pretty good. Put the upgraded Hill Engineering stuff on it (ball joints, clutch block, track rods etc.) and eliminate issues from when it was not used regularly and it’s a good car.
I’ve had BMW’s that present bigger service bills.
Most 360 owners would have replaced all ball joints with Hill Engineering units at the first replacement. The ongoing issues with the clutch would seem to be a diagnostic problem. Also with brakes I replaced standard drilled Brembo with 2 piece Stoptech, cheaper and better. That is, there are ways to keep your costs down.
60 pence per mile sounds pretty reasonable to me! A mundane family car like an Astra or Focus can easily cost 30 pence per mile over that sort of mileage, and after twenty years is worth nothing - at least the Ferrari still has a significant value, and look at the fun the owners have had over the years.
And remove that ridiculous, continuous clutch servicing you'll get even smaller "per mile" -cost. I had a 360 Modena with the "dreaded" F1-system and even that did NOT eat any of the clutch system components like that, and believe me I drove mine. 4,5 years (only summers as I'm living up at the North Europe) and 15k miles.
It was really reasonable to maintain, especially engine is really and I mean really DIY friendly (all the access etc.) and you'll find many of the GENUINE parts from ebay with fraction of the costs compared to for example this video. All the brake bits, various sensors and bits n bobs. Also Alfa-Romeo and Maserati use same parts from the era. Mine needed new oxygen sensor, both door locks, roof lining glue gave up -> had to be redone.
60p per mile excluding fuel, tax and insurance. That'll easily take it to £1 per mile.
He won't break even with that sort of mileage, either. Just because it is "just" double the price of some Astra or Focus doesn't mean it is reasonable, especially because it just covers repairs.
@@worldhello1234 Who expects to break even running a car in daily use?
legend who actually drove and enjoyed this car instead of putting it in a shed with a shiny floor and wanking over it
Well to be fair, it seems like it’s what the first owner did.. so the following owner could enjoy a more prestine one
I just can't get over the fact your sitting on that driver seat bolster, Unforgivable! If the seat didn't look like it had 173k miles on it before, it probably does now :)
Too right! I always avoid any contact with the bolsters on my classic cars, on the way in and on the way out.
Once they get tired, they look so awful!
its not his car so he might done it unconciously
Haha yes. I have an F430. I get seated as if the bottom and upper side bolsters have bombs in them.
Taking out the bill for the crash then I honestly don’t think the car has been expensive to run and what a guy the owner is for driving his Ferrari a go way towards the moon! Awesome 👏
Sport on. I'm afraid this is vid about nothing.
@@johnmcdonnell81 ??
@@ryanmccormick2150 Yep, useless, dumb comment. Some cannot help themselves it seems. 🙄
@@marcryvon 👍
Love the stock wheels on the 360, Ferrari did so well with the styling of the whole car in fact. I like that you showed us the wear on the shift ball. Great vid.
Agreed ! Especially regarding the wheels. And they are NOT blacked out. I hate "modern" black wheels.
Great video. It's refreshing to see a high mileage Ferrari. A low mileage example may be desirable or great for a collector, but it also means it hasn't done what it was designed to do - be driven.
Fully agreed ! Cars are made to be driven. Not hidden as a social trophy !
I honestly don't think the prices were that bad at all. Clutch issues could be driver error, lack of mechanical sympathy. The head cost at 2k was cheap imo.
Either you expected worse or simply own a Bentley. :D Those prices are really steep and typical Ferrari for the most part.
apart from the clutch issues [either bad driver or bad mechanic], not too bad for 170k
the mechanic who missed the siezed cooling fans wants his nuts in a vice, cost the guy a cylinder head for sure enjoyable little vid, you should try doing this for a living...
Hi Jack, don't think you can include much of the crash bill IMHO. Maybe 5k max.
I honestly don't think that's too bad. I suspect an Audi, Merc or BMW at 170k miles would cost similar
Interesting report, thanks. I owned a similar 360 (manual) for 11 years. Just sold it and did a similar tally for capital gains purposes. During the 11 years, I took it from 26,000 to 34,000 miles. No crashes but I did spend a total of £24,000 in services and a few repairs, so well below the £3K pa.
that's insane for 8k miles!!
Without the Crash bill. It works out at £2931 per year. Not too bad TBF..👍👍
Cheaper than smoking or playing golf I bet
Only in repairs but that car doesn't drive on farts and goodwill. :D
I paid 2 pounds for clutch master cylinder seals for my Honda..
Nice to see Ferrari being used properly, costs for that milage seemed reasonable
This was brilliant. Very well presented. Subscribed.
Looks like a really nice car, but something I could never afford, great video Jack, keep them coming, 👍👍.
Thanks Jack. You’ve saved me a few bob.
I’m going to stick with my 2007 Megane cabriolet in spite of the fact that I’ve spent a whopping €900 on servicing and maintenance over the last year and that’s about the same as I paid for it four years and 50000 miles ago.
I like the cost breakdown vids you do ! 😎
Great video; I look forward to them. Hope the channel is doing well and you are enjoying it. I know I do!
Bret
Loved my 360 Modena that I had a few years ago they were good value back in 2013 cost me my marriage though.
Those numbers make owning an E60 M5 sound like a bargain! Also the 360 is not one of the more expensive Ferraris to maintain as I'm told. Still a beautiful car especially in that color. Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks, great video - only info you could have added was cost/mile ...64p sounds great......would be unfair to compare it to something more ordinary but would give us a good reference point. So a car from the same era and with similar mileage so we understand that running a Ferrari is 2x or 3x or 4x as expensive as running a such and such. £5000 a year sounds ok if you're gettign the mileage - maintenance would still be high if it wasn't being used.
Er 4 years with no service when it covered how many miles in that period?? That is quite remarkable... I don't think I could sleep at night. I find it rather odd that the owner keeps a detailed spreadsheet of which panels he's waxed but has left the engine (the beating heart of a Ferrari) in pretty rough state. Great sense of humour 😂
Couldn’t get my head around that either
Some people are asthetically minded.
Other mechanically minded.
Or mechanical sympathy.
Funny thing. That's engine bay would look whole lot better with just a clean up....
173k Ferrari. Tip of the hat to Giles; that man is a DRIVER.
Holy smokes, Jack. Not only have I never heard of a Ferrari with over 100K miles, this 360 appears to have major clutch repairs. WOW! Cheers!:)
Holy smokes, Nathan. Is this your first look at RUclips ? Check out "Hoovies Garage" Plenty here with miles of miles on them. Some with high miles have be repowered with LS1 Chevs. "Samcrac" did a video on one recently . . they all have average clutches. Makes Ferrari plenty of money in repairs.
I have seen Volvo advertising their subscription deals for an electric C40 at over £7k per year as a great no hidden cost deal (that's a huge amount of money in my opinion). I know this includes depreciation but makes the Ferrari look ok value to me. Having said that my 62 reg SLK cost me £11k two years ago, hasn't lost any money, no repairs and only a few hundred to service at a specialist. Great video - thanks.
As Rowan Atkinson said when he crashed his McLaren F1 with a Metro in Preston. For the cost of repair to his car, you could have bought a Ferrari, so on that scale, it aint so bad.
Thankyou Jack your videos are so enlightening and humourus.
👍👍👍👍
Thanks chap!! Glad you enjoyed it
Nice to see the car has been driven and enjoyed.
What is interesting to me is the engine hasn't been rebuilt. The fuel injection system hasn't been rebuilt either it would seem. Which is very good for a high performance vehicle. If you compare it to my Landcruiser by 400,000k it only had had servicing costs a front universal and 2 c.v joints. And it was used for very heavy towing so I replaced the suspension.
It's a Toyota, right ? Nothing less to be expected.
But you're right, it's awesome that the engine is still original !
My ‘09 Tacoma has 300k km’s on it and only cost me servicing, a couple of ball joints and a heater blower motor. Been in the family since new and well looked after.
Great video. You just got one more subscriber.
Great! Thank you!
I've owned a TVR Cerbera for 16 years and in my time covered 45k miles. I have bills which average about £5k per year (80k total) for work and servicing / consumables.
Mechanically and underneath, it is excellent, but cosmetically it still looks like it needs £15k spent on it.
...which is pretty much the amount you d like to spend on any TVR rolling out of the factory brand spanking new. I d genuinely love to see an "Audi head of quality control vs any kinda TVR" vid... I bet this would have the length of the time that a surprisingly quick heart attack would take :). At the end of the day, what s a bit of cracked paint or suboptimal panel gaps vs the joy of driving a TVR.
@@nonamenameless5495 Cheers Noname. You're right, it is the joy of driving, but more specifically, it is the involvement of driving something quick and powerful without any assisted help. The saying is: a fool and his money are soon parted; at least I'm a happy fool.
Please keep up those kind of videos.
The patina on this car is worth every penny. Love those cost breakdown videos.
Another great episode Jack. Reminds me of my 512 BBi that I put over 100K miles on, lots of annoying little things that really shouldn't have been an issue, and then of course the dreaded engine out cam belt changes every 25K. Compare that with our 2008 Chevy Impala 3.5 V6 runabout; 330K miles now and just a new steering rack ($800) and a replacement transmission ($3,000) plus oil changes and servicing.
512BBi is a fabulous looking car, an early 80s legend, and one of the top fantasy cars during my teens☺️ You dropped a hint about ownership woes, how long did you have it for, and what were your average running costs?
@@Pulsonar Hi, I had it for 3-4 years while I was living in the UK and Europe and agree, it was a fabulous car although the Testarossa outdrove it. The car was very reliable, likely because I pretty much used it as a daily driver and regularly drove across the continent. I guess I averaged 25k miles a year. My biggest complaint was that silly things went wrong and the cost of Ferrari servicing. There was a big emphasis at the time that it had to be serviced at a main dealer and the Ferrari tolerances for when things needed to be changed bordered on anal. As soon as I got north of 50k miles, I moved it to specialized private shops and everything improved including not breaking down after a main dealer service because they hadn't reconnected something properly. When I sold it, it was well north of 100k and ran beautifully. Oh, it burnt oil - they all do, particularly the V8's.
@@PaulLeitnerWise Thanks a lot for your detailed account, so at the end of the day the 512BBi was a mind blowing machine that burnt your wallet a little bit. Doesn’t sound like too much like the stereotype of temperamental Italian exotica, although owning it a bit longer than the few years may have been crucifying especially with the engine out/cam belts overhaul etc… but then again enthusiasts like us know that owning a car like this can be like a love affair with a tempestuous mistress. I owned a Porsche 928S4 for many years, a great V8 beast of a car, and that too could be costly to maintain. The maintenance/cost experience depends on how often you use the car, and in what conditions as much as whether you chose official dealer or specialist service for regular service. In my experience, I found specialists to be more knowledgeable about old Porsches and cheaper in the long run. However, just as I prepared my car for sale after 12 years ownership Porsche announced a new vintage car service program. So I asked Porsche to prepare and tune up my old 928, they did it expertly, so well, for costs 25% lower than I would’ve paid at my usual specialist garage and far better than what had ever been done before, I didn’t want to sell it when I got it back it was like a new super GT 😂 when it sold I got back 20% more than what I paid 12 years earlier. Overall a great car and unforgettably good owner experience.
Great story, well done to the owners for using it and not just being another garage queen. Worthy successor to the Evo long termer 'Triggers broom' Murcielago
Just got another 135k miles to put on mine then.
Think I'll run out of time at my circa 4k miles a year; but I'll die happy trying.
I bought his California on Saturday, and your filming delayed my collection !!! I didn't expect the video so soon !! I've got a 1969 LHD 911E with a full service history as well. I think you will be told about it.
Bloody hell Jack! The easy part is purchasing the car!!!! Any chance of doing a similar video on Aston Martin Vantage S and a Ferrari California 👍👍👍🚒👍
always is with the luxury brands.
I’d l Le to if I get offered a couple to do that with!
Interesting video 🚘🚙🚗👍👍👍👍👍👍
The interesting thing for me is that the 170.000+ miles car seems to have not that much higher yearly running costs than a 360 with more average miles on it (crashes not included!). Cost per year might be high, but cost per mile really isn’t all that bad! A really good demonstration of the fact that these cars REALLY like being used!
Great summary. The 3k/yr is about right. Sounds like the clutch work was a bit suspect as well.
I also have similar spreadsheets for all of my maintenance on my cars. I can’t tell you the name of the restaurant I took my family out to dinner to last week, but can tell you which day last year I flushed the brakes and mfg/model of the fluid.
listening to each of the bills from the previous owner, i think hes been taken for a ride, Scammed would be the modern word,
How many clutches seals and work does a car need ?
seems similar to the cooling fans issue that eventually cracked the head... the people you take these cars to just aren't able to properly diagnose what's going on. It must not have run right for YEARS lol
I am a huge Ferrari fan but must say the 360 is near the bottom of my list. Repairs costs to a 308 seem so much less painful when you just stand back and look at how beautiful it is. The amount of money spent on something that looks like a kit car vexes me. Eye of the beholder I guess. Another great instalment Jack, your clear communication and enthusiastic delivery is a pleasure to watch.
Yes. 308 is one of the cheapest Ferraris to maintain!!
Apart from mine!! 😁😁
We used one as the "shop truck" at the Volvo dealer. Owner had one at each shop.
Please, Jack, they're "dampers". Shocks are absorbed by the thick wire coiled around them, the dampers stop them from bouncing back and forth. (If they're combined in a unit, I suppose the whole unit could be classifed as a "shock unit".
I put 238,000 miles (383,000km) on a Toyota Previa AWD (from new) and the only maintenance it required was oil changes, filters, misc fluids, brakes, tires, shocks (dampers) and batteries. It was a 4cyl engine.
What I’d give to have something that reliable
I put 372 000 kms on a Toyota Hilux 2.5 turbo diesel from new. Brake pads , oil change, tires, air filters, wipers. That's it.
My BMW 320d is at 274k miles - cost maybe £2-3k over 14 years and 150k miles
Just one more reason to love the 360.
It would be very interesting to know the full cost of ownership, ie initial cost, servicing and repairs, and current value, and balance this against say a Ford Focus or Golf or similar.
Good point on purchase price and current value!! Not sure on either ..
No mention of timing belt replacement? Or was that one (or several) of the "major service" events? Certainly eye-watering figures.....
Included in the standard maintenance e costs!
Wow, that's some big money spent there. At least with the 360 you're not paying for an engine out cam belt service. Good to see the car has been driven and enjoyed.
Considering it was a video where nothing happened. I really enjoyed that and found it very interesting…!
I drove an 87 x1/9 for 16 years and alost every day. I figured with tires, repairs, minus fuel under $2000. I also do my own work. 1 clutch because it disintergtated, but still got it home, a starter, plugs wires brakes and reg maintenance. Still more fun than a ferrari because i can actually push to the limits and not worry about leaving th top off in a rain. It may vave been more but it was so reliable.
£5+ per annum running costs is pretty eye watering, but you do then have a well sorted Ferrari that looks good and runs as it should. So on balance probably a lower annual cost than that endured by the first owner in depreciation.
This is why I do all the work on my cars myself. Guy that missed the fan issue is responsible for the warped cylinder head. You should break out parts/labor to see what the totals are.
600 quid wiper arm.............................there must be a bit of a underlying feeling of being taken for a complete and utter c^&t at times when it comes to Ferrari ownership
Great that someone actually enjoyed the car.
Triggers broom comes to mind 👀
What was the cost for tyres etc, must have used a few sets.
My dad's buddy had a Ferrari 360. It was beautiful. Red with tan interior but he sold it after only 4 years of ownership. He said the cost of maintenance was too much and he bought a Porsche 911 instead.
There some big numbers there and my my those clutch and gearbox issues!!! Not too bad overall though over 21 years.
So a bit under 4k per annum (if you carry over some of consumables from the accident repair as maintenance items). That's about in line with my experience over two years of 360 spider ownership / 10k klms where I've done:
- steering rack rebuild
- RH fuel pump
- minor service x 1
- major service with cambelt x 1
- set of Michelin PS4s
- a/c compressor rebuild
- hood microswitch
- a few other bits (bushings, CV joint boots, alternator)
Seems like they couldn't get the clutch right though.
That’s the most expensive car love affair ever Jack 🙌🏻🙌🏻😳😳
Without the crash, not too bad for the miles.
I've run my F355 for 14 years. Spent around £30k on maint, including 3 engine out belt changes, but I've not crashed it to be fair.
Good news is, it's gone up £40k in value in the same time, so it's still be a free Ferrari.
Buy a new Merc or Porche and you can easily lose £40k in the first few years in depreciation.
Love the vids.
Totally agree with you. Ive had my 360 for 12 years and probably spent 20k on it but it's it's worth 25k more than what I payed for it. A free Ferrari for sure!
Interesting. But it seems as if lots of the "little" bills could have/should have been done as part of other services. That may have given some cost savings. And deducting the accident cost of 49k pounds brings it down to what...about 65k or just a hair over 3000 pounds a year...which isn't awful for a Ferrari...especially with the amount of miles being put on it. I would venture that many Ferrari owners are spending almost that on cars they rarely or barely drive. Your friend is certainly getting his enjoyment out of his car. Good video. I'll bet it is true for most other high mileage exotic cars.
Repairs only. Which means it is only half the story.
Jack, did I see you in Shrewsbury, last week?
I really want a 360 or any Ferrari before I pop my clogs
Prices it up last year but just couldn’t justify the finance
Wow jack. I’m taking a cold shower after all that chat about waxed panel spreadsheets 😉. Great film as always 👍🏼
Thank you Jason!
Just wow, however the car is 20.75 years so on that basis excluding the crash bill, £2158 pa on repairs or 26ppm and £1048 pa on servicing or 12.5ppm, total £3206pa or 38.5ppm. Just for reference i ran a Honda s2000 for just under 22 years and that came in at under 10ppm ( over 154k miles)
You probably didn't have to fix much either, I'll bet. Great cars
Sam - Seen Through Glass should see this. Lol 😂 - what is it worth now after all those repairs? It’s still a lovely car though.
amazing how fragile so many small items seem to be , seals . pipes cables etc..
Anyone elses OCD going crazy with Jack perched on the side bolster like that?!
I think that has to be my favourite colour on a 360.
That engine bay looks fantastic. What's underneath is what matters...RUclipsrs take note (Jack...you're let off!)
Back in 2005 I bought a Porsche 964 Carrera 4 cab with 166,000 miles on it. Previously it had had a full engine rebuild and other than coil packs it ran fine!…
Recently bought Ferrari California T with 7 year service pack…this “free servicing’ encourages use but also dealer maintenance rosta… thus hopefully will keep current cohort of cars in better condition for longer..
You've got to like that spreadsheet, especially as it's the legendary collinite
😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
I agree with these comments tbh. I love your vids but this is a bit click baity.
I run a 360 on a budget and tbf if you're prepared to do some work (like you do yourself) then its not too bad. E.g Ferrari don't make MAF sensors or coils, or O2 sensors... Bosch do and they're 80% cheaper if they don't come in a Yellow Box with a stallion on them.
Ball joints and suspension are a weak spot and proprietary, so expensive. Sure you might get hit with a big one, once in a while but you'd get that across any high end car above say 80k miles. Given the type of car and engine which operates under such extreme conditions to 8500 rpm I'm surprised it's not needed a full rebuild. As for including a crash in running costs???? 🙂
Exactly! I did order majority of service parts from ebay, you'll find complete "minor / major" service kits for these with a fraction of the costs of aquiring anything from the main dealer. Alf-Romeo / Maserati has many same parts = much cheaper even from Ebay. I used independent specialist for majority of the maintenance work and did easiest jobs by myself. For example the spark plugs / coil packs, even a nanny could change those! This car has extremely well access to most of the sensors in engine bay, all the wearing components etc.
And the running costs doesn't include the depreciation; I lost fraction of the money compared to any modern / semi modern AMG / RS / M -cars when I sold mine after 4,5 years of pure enjoyment. Running costs may be higher but depreciation isn't even at the same ballpark than similar priced German counterparts.
@@Gadne92.5 Amen to that! 👍
It’s been well used!
64p a mile in maintenance / repairs is one thing….I wonder how much it is with fuel, VED and insurance?
Saying that there are much lesser cars that can cost a shed load to run in repairs.
I am sure that the clutch and transmission repairs have not been carried out correctly or the transmission fluid has not been changed on time. Because apart from that the failures have been very reasonable.
Ok, the crank position sensor for 300 pounds got me. I paid around $11 for one of these on my Lexus. The markup for such a simple part is astonishing.
Your summation of running costs sounds like a typical Ferrari affair. It all starts when the cars leave the factory ... the Lexus badges fall off and thus reliability goes down the tube!
"It all starts when the cars leave the factory ... the Lexus badges fall off and thus reliability goes down the tube!" That is called bullshit. :D
Try the running costs of a VW Transporter, that’ll put bills vs purchase price into perspective.
1:56 ='s how to completely destroy the seats side bolster
Going thru ur list as presented... sounds like some of the shops doing the work have screwed over the owner and/or are incompetent.. having to go in 3 times to do a clutch given the hrs of labour given its an engine out job .. when the 1st failure wit hthe thrust busing happened .. then was the time to replace all the parts not have to go in 3 more items in such a short time span
Yes I agree..
It has beautiful wheels
Would be intertersting to know what the car is currently worth and if its still in the black with the repair bills
Great mileage :)
Ouch! Those figures are eye watering.
Check the flywheel for true.
The clutch isnt the problem. Something in the input side is out of spec.
Be interesting to compare costs had the owner done all the mechanical repairs and servicing themselves.
Most cars cost their owners quite an amount to purchase, run and own, (no one drives for free!), the difference with cars such as a Ferrari vs an "ordinary" expensive car, say BMW, Merc, Audi, the Ferrari is still worth owning and has in many cases a higher residual value than original purchase cost after all the years and that value is growing. Almost all the others go to a scrapper at metal value.
Just because it is a collectors item doesn't mean you even break even if you sell it or it is worth owning. This is the prime example for that. Worth owning for most many means it is more than just an asset that collects dust a garage.
Very interesting video, but wow what a rip off. Just the fact the huge price difference between the two wipers shows that they are fleecing customers.
Also the amount of money thrown at the clutch area in a short space of time would indicate to me they were charging without completely solving the issues everytime.
So Jack, what broke while you were sitting in it going over the list?
I've owned a Ferrari for the last 17 years and I have never and will never take it to a dealer for service work. I always have done my own service work right down to head removals and transmission rebuilds.
One of the main things keeping me from seriously considering a Ferrari is the running costs. Combine routine maintenance with unexpected failures and I’m worried the car might quickly exceed its value in repair bills. Granted, I’m looking at a 10-year-old example so maybe reliability is less of a concern than the older Ferrari’s, but I plan on keeping the car indefinitely so the long term costs are important to me. This is more of a observation on principle, not about what one can or cannot afford. Pay-to-play as they say.
You must be insane to be even contemplating buying one of these money pits.
@@asensibleyoungman2978 I’m not considering this model specifically. The 360 Modena wasn’t in production ten years ago.
More money than sense, with so many failing clutch issues most people would moved it on Jack.
Jeezo you'd need to be a true ferrari enthusiast to put up with these costs!!
I THINK a ’conversation’ involves at least two people. 😊
Anyone know how much was spent on the clutch in 21 years and ball joints. If the ball joints were replaced with Hill Engineering in the first place it would be cheaper in the long run ???
Yes it would.. but it was serviced by ferrari till 2017 so they would only use OEM parts…