If the rings are that bad, an engine flush for that amount of time will do nothing to them, the only chance would to fill the cylinders with that stuff or ATF and leave it to drain through the rings for some time, then give it a good run and cool down a few times. To be honest, just rebuild it, its going to be far less hassle and actually work. of course that is a IMHO :D
Agree, just avoiding the inevitable, but a route you have to go down before the bills come in. The hardest part is pulling the engine out and putting it back in... But.. when you go down this route you must replace the oil pump, water pump, belts etc and the costs will add up. No idea how expensive this is for a Ferrari, I suspect huge, just done this to our integrale and Elise, they were not cheap. The influenza for sure will put on hold the next visit to the dentist. (Edit- Clutch and possibly flywheel)
When i did mine a got ! litre of petrol and added fuel injector cleaner, atf and any "carbon dissolving" auto treatment and filled each cylinder over the course of a weekend. I left the oil drain plug out so any that went past the rings drained out. In the end 2 cyls held the concoction and 2 still had some leakage but at a lot slower rate.
I was going to say the same, as in sump plug out, keep filling the cylinders with ATF (i used two stroke oil and petroll on a siezed engine) i would refill daily, and if the oil control ring is gummed up it will free off, but takes more than a few hours, more like a week of refilling, then a dose of neat petrol, but let it drain right off before filling with oil and starting
I soaked my I6 cylinders in seafoam (topping up, over 4 day period) in an attempt to free up gummed piston rings. Then change the oil & vacuum cylinders immediately before starting!
...Then send all the discarded parts over to me, I'd have a 308 in a heartbeat, a beautiful old Faz in any condition, it's all fixable, just maybe a bit up scale from young Jack's skill set.
@@gazzafloss I was an engineer before answering a call to Ministry and its obvious to me that Jack aint an engineer he's winging it and doesn't have the skill set as you say. He's bit off more than he can chew though a rebuild might be what's required most likely. Amateur car enthusiasts can do more harm than good I'm amazed with some people who tinker too much. He's a nice guy but working on a car in his pyjama bottoms lol 🤔 what is he all about 🤔😂
Been watching this from the start 2 years ago and it needed an engine rebuild then.....I think its time you did it once and for all and then enjoy the 308 in all its glory 😁😁😁👍 My fav Ferrari since being a kid 😀
Your dad looks such a genuine chap Jack. It's a shame the treatment didn't help, but it probably cleaned the internals like the oil pickup etc. One thing I do know is that you have an incredible amount of patience, I'd of sold it by now sadly.
Glad to see you and your Dad out having a ride together. Sorry mate, snake oil never works. You need new rings. Looking forward to the bottom rebuild. Good luck, from Canada
Ah the classic Italian dad “Well’…” at 12:15 😂 He couldn’t have shown his true feelings any better than with that word…. Bravo to him for getting involved in the video 🇮🇹
I think we know where this is going Jack. Gloves on… tools out.. engine in pieces on the carpet on the dining room! Block in the bath.. kitchen table with a vice attached.. Bite the bullet, no amount of engine flushes are going to make it right. It’ll be epic when it’s done. Hurry before summer!! 👌👌
A slightly hotter plug might keep it running much longer before they oil up. Did that on my Merak and it worked like a charm. In the end you will need to rebuild it anyway.
At this point I'd put cylinder #6 at BDC and stick a borescope down the cylinder and look to see if the walls are scored. That will only confirm the problem but at this point a rebuild of the block is in your future.
When addressing low compression on a cylinder, check with the tester as you have then drop a teaspoon of oil into the cylinder and try again. If the rings aren’t sealing sufficiently this will (for a few seconds) give you a perfect seal. If the compression is still low, there could be a valve/seat issue, possibly stem seals also.
I had a similar problem not on a Ferrari but a Alfa Spider also tried everything it was caused by ring land on cylinder No1.... Engine rebuild all fixed ..it takes all your sadness away once it's fixed. Good show sir
Can also be valve guide seals. Liqui molly has something for that - Motor Oil Saver. My old Landcruiser was smoking on startup and using more oil than I would like. I used the product and after about 300 miles the smoking stopped and after a further 2000 the oil level hasn't moved.
Jack, you missed to use Liqui Moly Oil Stop. That would rather be the product to really fight your issue (as long as the internals are reasonably sound). It’s very well known in the world of young- and oldtimers. You would need to have it in your engine for at least 450 miles before you would start to see results though.
Definately rings. Had the same problem on an old Rover Mini. Got the engine rebuilt (and re-bored) and it went on to 120 thousand miles - until it literally rotted away.
As said a few days ago by another person... Cold Dry compression test and write down the Results then a tea spoon of oil into each Cylinder and write down same then also an 'Air Leak down' tests on those Cylinders with respective inlet and then exhaust valves closed, to see if the valves are passing, or if any Blow By is coming from same...Glove on the tail pipe would show up exhaust Valve leakage, could even be Oil leakage down the Valve stem seals...if so maybe there could be combustion gases blowing up through when the Oil Filler Cap is taken off and when the Car is Running, Great Upload...
My absolute favourite genre of your videos. Whilst exhausting with the emotional rollercoaster of it all, hugely enjoyable too. Keep the faith and thanks for the videos.
Man I am glad you tried this. It was worth a shot. Good luck on the rebuild. Bottom end rebuilds are not for the faint of heart. I hope you have a good shop do it. Also see if you can have the whole rotating assembly 0 balanced while they are in there. A V8 benefits greatly from a proper balance job. Your power and will be smoother and the engine will rev like silk.
I think the plug gives you the answer. Wet and black on 1 side and washed clean on the other. This suggests leaking valve stem oil seals allied to bore wash.
I think the problem is you need a pinch more oregano & less basil. They are very finnicky with such things. ps are you sure that's your dad? I know he looks like Enzo (especially in darker sunglasses) but surely having an Italian son buying a Ferrari is like the holy grail of fatherhood.....
I bought a 1958 Porsche for $6,800 in the mid 1990's that had a 1960 Super 90 engine and a tan repaint over original silver. We called it the "Peanut" because it came from Georgia. Carbs were worn, distributor was very worn, and it burned oil. Removed the engine (trivial in a 356) and found a crack in the case. Located a 58 super engine in Texas and had it rebuilt by a shop with a national reputation, about 50 miles away in Allentown, PA. Everything was gone over. Nothing left to diagnose. Amazingly the engine went back together with stock bearings, no oversize needed. New iron NPR cylinders and pistons made in Japan. New Bosch alloy distributor made in Brazil. I rebuilt the Zenith carbs myself. Rallied it with local Porsche club and was never let down. Car sold at Amelia Island a few years back and now lives in Wales.
A small tip, whe pouring oil keep the container side on if possible as you get a smoother pour with less gulping and less mess. I know it's not a major thing but it's a thing. Keep up the great work 👍.
So nice to see the Influenzo again. Must admit that it's foibles make it seem even more exotic. I guess now hear comes the money round and rebuild the lump. Best of luck Jack, pulling for you and the Ferrari.
I know it's a pain to have the engine out and apart but imagine how wonderful it will be when it's done. I still remember how I felt when I was first taken out for a spin in a hard top model when, as a sixteen year old apprentice, I worked for the main dealer in Colchester. One of those events that will stay with me forever.
Hiya Jack. Firstly, my apologies as this has turned out to be quite a long post! But please read on, because I think it's relevant. One thing I noticed with those additives is that sometimes they can take a little while to work as much as they say on the tin. Give the Influenzo a few more trips out before you call this one - he looked like he was smoking less afterward than he was before the LiquiMoly went in.....so maybe it's the same with that stuff. The rings are a little worn in my Triumph 2500S, so I do a flush before each oil change, then she gets the Penrite HPR-30 20w/60 oil, then an additive that increases the viscosity in the oil when it gets hot. I get the occasional puff on start-up now, but nothing else and best of all, good oil pressure when she;s warm. Mate - your Influenzo reminds me so much of Stacey my Stag. I so feel your pain..... I have always wanted a Triumph Stag and this one was a beaut. Little did I know how much she would test my resolve. In the first 3 months, I learned so much about her that had been hidden because she had obviously sat for a few years longer than the previous owner had let on and drove beautifully to begin with. Over the 700-odd miles up the country to home, I learned that the alternator would occasionally stop working, not to fill her up over three quarters of a tank of petrol or else I would lose a fair bit out the cap because it didn't seal, the gearbox Overdrive unit leaked onto the exhausts, the speedometer cable was not retained properly and was also sitting on the exhaust, the clutch return spring became weak and I had to hold the pedal up with my left foot so it didn't constantly put a small amount of pressure on the plate, the windscreen washers didn't work.....and by the time I had driven the full distance, the suspension had freed up again and I was able to tell that the shocks were shot. I sorted these fairly quickly, but it seemed that every time I fixed one thing (or replaced a tired seal, broken lens, or other cosmetic improvement), something else would break or stop working. I was out on a drive in June of 2019 a week after her being in the shop for 6 weeks with her latest list of needs - getting the exhaust replaced, the carb reconditioned, the valley gasket replaced and repairs to the clutch slave and mount after a mishap with a LARGE pothole - and I had the top down, cruising along on a sunny winter's day with that famed burble in my ears......put my foot on the brake to slow for a corner - and it went straight to the floor. I nursed the car home on the handbrake and parked it in the garage.......where she sat for 21 months because I was so annoyed with her. I got her master cylinder sleeved with stainless in October 2021, bled the brakes and she was away again. However, she then decided it was time to destroy (and I MEAN destroy) the drag strut bushes, so I did them and all the hardware that goes with it. She blew a headlight bulb, so I took the opportunity to upgrade the headlight lenses to Hella units and replace all headlight bulbs, and a dead courtesy lamp bulb on the T-bar inside. Replacing a headlight bulb involves taking the entire grille out (more or less) if it's high beam, so perfect timing. Then the OD started kicking in and out like the solenoid was playing up. Turned out to be a bad connection caused by a broken wire in the gearstick harness, so I replaced that. There were a couple more minor incidents, but they were fixed easy enough, but I also replaced the last of the body and hood seals I had been getting round to doing, thinking maybe she would be nice and lay off the repair demands for a while. It was not to be..... Shortly after that and on a trip down country, she started developing a bad miss. From my troubleshooting at the destination, it pointed at the distributor's internals (which I know are getting tired) and lack of mechanical advance. However, not to be outdone, on the way home, I was 26km from where I had been staying with family and I was being flagged down by the driver behind me. I started to pull over and then the rear wheels just locked up and she slid off the road. The quill shaft housing on the front of the diff had broken away and the diff had rocked forward, tightening the handbrake cable over the trailing arms and causing the slide..........but she was on fire under there as well! The quill shaft housing coming off had allowed the diff to dump hot diff oil on the hotter exhaust and it had spontaneously combusted. Sooooooo glad I have an extinguisher! So, car cannot be driven and I am in the middle of nowhere. Called the AA and got her brought back home and over to my mechanic's yard. He's looking to retire on what I have been spending on this car.....but I digress. Turns out that the retaining nut on the front of the pinion shaft came off, destroyed the splines and seal on the pinion shaft, destroyed the mating coupling to the quill shaft housing and the splines on the quill shaft itself, then jammed them all, destroying the housing as well. Good news was that the crown wheel, planetary and spider gears were all fine as no detritus got in there, but all seals and front bearings were destroyed. So.....nearly $3k (in my currency) later (about 1500 pounds sterling) and I have had enough and am calling it quits. Yes, I love the Stag, but the reality of owning my dream car has been a nightmare. Somebody else can take it from here.....although I have nearly replaced every damn thing except the engine and gearbox now! When I said I feel your pain, I meant it! Enough is enough though and there has to be a line drawn somewhere when a car is costing you more in frustration than you are getting back in therapeutic drives in the countryside. When she comes back from the shop, she's going down the road. I am not going to tot up exactly how much she has cost me in the past 5 years in new parts, time and the occasional trip to the mechanic when I cannot do the job myself, but with the bills I remember off the top of my head, it would be well north of $15k (7.5k GBP) - a pittance compared to the Influenzo, but by the same token, Stacey is not worth the amount the Influenzo is, so on scale it is comparatively similar. I have definitely spent more on her than I paid for her 5 years ago and I think enough is enough. I will still have a 79 Triumph 2500S (on of the last ever assembled here in NZ) and a 77 Mini that has been somewhat customised and modified, so they are enough to handle between them, I think! Good luck though, Jack and all the best. I mean it, mate!
As the owner of a 2T dirt bike that's running a bit rich I can tell you can clean carbon fouled plugs. A blowtorch will burn the carbon off and they'll be fine.
@@sjoroverpirat Yup, that's what I use. Hold the metal piece that the wire clips to in a set of pliers, blowtorch the firing end until it's red hot, then put it down somewhere heat resistant to cool off. You can get them almost white again if you put them through an ultrasonic cleaner after that. In a dirt bike I just rinse-repeat, in a road car I'd probably put a limit to the number of cycles before tossing them because if they fail a tow is going to be more than the money you're saving. With a V12 going through plugs every 2K miles would get expensive fast, especially if you're buying iridium plugs.
I remember back in the 80s my Dad had a spark plug cleaner...it was like a mini sand blaster the size of a mug. You plugged it in, stuck a plug in the rubber bung and when you started it, it sounded like an kitchen mixer. The plugs came out gleaming..but I've never seen one since then..
I used to have trouble with the extenders and mine always used oil too, but in fairness the handbook said it used a litre of oil per 200 miles which was about right. After I sold the 308 the guy who then stripped the motor for the cars restoration said it was in pretty good shape apart from slightly bent valve stem which had been causing hot spotting in the coolant but not affecting the running
The oil residue on only one side of the spark plug suggests oil entering the combustion chamber via the intake valve (bad valve seal). Oil getting past rings typically will be more universal in coating the plug.
"Back in the day" of my Alfa flat 4's with carburettors I had a spark plug cleaner. 12v motor and a bag of iron filings that would blast the spark plug electrode clean. It did work!
Hello, here in Bulgaria the common practise is to fill the cylinders with gas for lamps. Also its good to rotate the crank after the gas is down in the sump and refill it again... It will take a good amount of time cause its a Vee engine but I think its the last hope for that rings :) BR
I salute you! If it's any consolation I can give an update on the UK'S cheapest 996: the annoying tick has been diagnosed as a lazy lifter. As soon as you put an extra 50 rpm on from idle it vanishes, I've tried EVERY oil additive on the market and none of them have made any difference. I'm convinced that it's all 'snake oil'. Mines a very early build so I could just increase the idle via the cable but at this stage in my frustration I really can't be bothered. Good luck to you
That was the worst thing to do, putting in an additive to thin the oil and break up any sludge on an engine that has an oil problem. The sludge might of been keeping oil from escaping and you then go and give it a right foot full. There is a RUclipsr that owns an engine reconditioning shop in the uk that perhaps you could reach out to and do a collaboration, as you need a rebuild .
So so sad! Obsession with this nightmare car!! My 1979 308 GTS NEVER (apart from a top end leaking water hose, easy fix!) had a problem in three years in my possession!, and I thoroughly enjoyed her! Are you just looking for problems for your U Tube channel?!Mmmmmmmm!?
Have you checked for a blocked engine breather? That could cause pressure in the crankcase and force oil past the rings. Happened on my sons mini when he connected the breather to a closed connection on the air box.
I have used BG ERP and gained 27% overall on compression on one vehicle, but that said, if the engine has anything more than coking around the piston rings, you need to fix the fault. The BG treatment transformed the vehicle I had.
You could use a bore scope to see how the cylinders look eh. If the bores look good, especially #6, try the trick mentioned below. Drain out that fresh oil and store it. Fill all cylinders with ATF through the plug holes and leave it in there for a few days, topping up as needed. Let everything drain out via the sump. After a few ways, stop adding ATF. Leave it overnight or a day until the fluid stops dripping out the drain plug, then with the plugs out just bump the starter to clear the cylinders. Put maybe a liter of your oil back in and let that flush the sump pan out. Refit the drain plug, refill your oil, add some fresh to level, and then see what you're looking at.
A pleasure to be introduced to Papa - would be good to see a side-by-side comparison of his pleased and displeased facial expression! I'm currently struggling with oiled plugs on my (single cylinder, 1964) Moto Morini - will try risotto - as I'm from Staffordshire, I'll obviously put in extra parmigiano. Thanks for another great episode. X
I think it has been mentioned before, but using a Colortune might let you see what's going on in each combustion chamber. Having just finished rebuilding the engine in my old Sunbeam Rapier may I wish you good luck and no nasty, expensive surprises!
I had an old Porsche in for test a couple of weeks back, failed with a similar complaint. We did the STP treatment, 6 runs of 30 minutes over 2 days. Significant reduction in emissions and no visible smoke. We gave it a dose of the leave in Seafoam and off went a happy chap. Could be worth trying if the engine isn't stripped down.
I'd try what some of the commentators said about going in the top end. I've used seafoam on many engines that were smoking or running poorly both in the engine oil like you did, but better effect is spraying into the throttle body or letting the vacuum line to the brake booster to suck it in. I unstuck a ring on a 1983 Honda Nighthawk 650 with seafoam sprayed into the carb and put another 50,000 miles on that engine after the previous owner gave up on it and wanted the bike out of his garage. People think it's snake oil and a waste of money but in the states it's like $8 and nothing to lose compared to en engine rebuild on an exotic. I'm rebuilding a Carrera 3.2 engine now and I'm probably close to $20,000 in parts alone so those that think spending $8 on a longshot bet are really idiots. You have absolutely nothing to lose so at least try it even if you probably have worn rings.
I could NOT tell from the video if the smoke was black or blue. If blue, it is oil, but if black it is fuel mixture, if so can you access an emissions tester that can monitor while driving? One thought for cylinder 6. is pull all the plugs, disable fuel supply and ignition, check compression, then pour a tablespoon of oil into the spark-plug hole, crank engine for a few seconds then check compression, if still low, then it is a valve problem, if it raises to full, then it is rings. If rings, one possible fix might be to pour maybe a tablespoon of the Liqui-Moly into cyl. 6 and crank for a minuet or so, then repeat.
When you had the Ferrari guy balance the carbs a year ago, he seemed to set the idle super rich. He even said that was normal with these cars. That was able to get every cylinder to idle, but I am not surprised to see that your plugs reflect rich running.
Jack, looks like you might have installed chinesium valve stem seals. Possibly they are so bad that they not only cause the smoke on startup, but also smoke on normal running. Possibly you also have a crankcase breathing issue. If the crankcase is subject to pressure, oil can be pushed past the valve stem seals. Symptoms include pressure coming up the dipstick and smoke during engine braking. Both easy to check.
Its funny how we all like to feel we've impressed our fathers with the cars we buy and yet they remain pretty much indifferent. My Dad was the best killjoy of any car fun, yet I loved to show my latest car to him... on the way home I felt satisfied that he had been thoroughly indifferent to my latest toy. This confirmed to me that I have bought the right car while leaving me flat and fed up at the same time
Using 100% synthetic oil on that engine, considering its great detergent properties, removed a lot of carbon also from those piston rings, I'm pretty certain. Ideal oil would be a good mineral or semi-synthetic 15w50 or even 20w50. Those carbon deposits are crutial to mantain some compression on tired vintage engines.
Yep .The carb 70;s 308s have steel liners and compatible rings to suit .Full synth is a killer .The gaps ( tolerances ) are massive by todays or indeed the 80 s QV Ferraris standards .I use “ classic “ mineral 15/40 every 3 K change on my 3*8 carb GT 4 .Also mentioned by many with carbs you get oil dilution by the fuel , esp with choke or without when cold as the Stone Age cylinder tech hasn’t expanded to seal properly.Any how plenty of key board warriors singing about synthetic oils ……….It’s not there car .
Marvell Mystery Oil, you can run up to 20% of the crank case oil volume, but I'd run it for a while the rings might recover at least 6000 miles, best way to get rings to seal is to accelerate up high rpm in a fixed gear like 3rd gear or second gear, then let it decelerate all the way down, then back up again, down again many time. You want to keep your rpms up all the time other wise the plug will foul quicker, less idling and low rpms.
I have used CD2 before and it freaking worked. We did a compression test before and after and it level out the compression across all cylinders. I don't know if they sell it anymore. That was back in 199x's.
i did an engine flush once and the first oil cycle it used even more oil than before, probably because theres always a bit off residu in the engine that thinned down the new oil a bit. After a thickening additive and then another oil change it was fine for me
I use Liquid Moly in my engines too, I still have to notice any mpg inxrease but the noise of the cam/valves in my big GM V8s has improved a bit..as long as it does deliver the viscosity support to the engine that's all I need (plus I only use synthetic oil).
Put some 5W40 fully synthetic diesel engine oil. It has to be diesel engine oil specifically for the additives that help dissolve the sludge. When i bought my SAAB, the 2.0 turbo gasoline engine was so undermaintained that it clattered like an old clapped out diesel engine. But the diesel engine oil helped it quiet down over some 100-150 kilometers. Now after 20k kilometers it's completely quiet and runs perfectly well. As for the root cause of the noise, as this is not my first SAAB, i know that the hydraulic valve buckets tend to collect sludge and clatter like crazy. And where previously i had to take the cams out and disassemble the buckets to clean them out, with diesel engine oil they cleaned up themselves, so i count this as a good way to clean an engine up. Also that engine oil you drained looks terrible, almost darker than the oil i drained out my undermaintained engine.
It is imperative to blip the throttle on the flush cycle every minute and keep the idle at 1500 RPM! This then has the best chance of clearing the ring lands of detritus and varnish! Your compression test shows the ring seal is good! You could have a blocked drain back hole I one or more of the ring lands. You need to check all plugs and also get a inspection camera to check each cylinder! Aldi had them in for £40. The thing is though. The build up in ring lands ends up compacted. And the only real way to remove it is to remove heads and sump! Remove each rod n piston set one by one! Clean and put new oil rings in at the least! Also plastigauge the crank journals on the big ends and mains! And replace bearings if needed. Theirs a lot of companies that specialises in quality aftermarket parts cheaper and better quality than Ferrari! As at the end of these cars! Although exotic beautiful and soulful. There is a history of bad building and design elements in all their cars. Not just from that era! But modern cars also!! Me personally! I’d sell it and buy a Lamborghini Uraco! Or if possible a beautiful Maserati Bora!!! Both better built bruits of that era!! I do hope you get it fixed bud! Just for your peace of mind if anything!! As I can feel your pain watching you!! Good luck!!!
Bless you for trying Jack but I think your clutching at straws now mate , that engines got worn bores / pistons and or rings. On another note , the smoke from the rear on hard acceleration looked more brownish than blue that would be unburnt fuel suggesting running way too rich on full chat and contributing to the blackened plugs. Finally , engine flushes often worsen smoking , as any carbon or gumming of the rings gets cleaned away which is in effect helping to seal things regards Mike
The Influenzo has only done 25.000 miles. I wouldn't have thought the pistons or bores would be worn at that mileage. Yes the cars probably been driven hard all its life. Still 25k still low mileage...
@@stuartd9741 something like a Ferrari that hasn't been driven hard is just as likely to oil up and deposit carbon. '70s.'80s high perforemance Italian cars that were used to pose around town and did few miles rather than burn up the autostrada often needed servicing more often. A proper diagnosis is required rather than jumping at magic additives or an expensive rebuild.
@@stuartd9741 Yes, but if I recall, he did overheat it a while ago, causing one or more of the heads to need to be rebuilt or replaced. It seems that's when this problem started, and overheating the engine can cause all sorts of issues.
So if the compression is ok, I would look upstream of the valve seat, valve head junction. All the plugs get fowled eventually, minor differences intake air distribution at first, but in time they all get coated. Bad air, bad smog pump, bad crankcase venting, bad pvc valve, bad carb float bowl levels, bad rubber valve seals, wrong tolerance on valve guides, contaminated fuel? Sorry, too long a list.
Try Liqui Moly Oil Stop Smoke, my 1.7 Volvo 340 GLE had hundreds of thousands of miles on it when I bought it (mainly for the number plate!) and smoked. I liked the car, ran it for years with stop smoke. It did the trick. I see that someone else has suggested this too.
Your videos are amazing. I love every one of them. My only comment - as a real Italian - is that the Influenzo is a “she” and not a “he!” Rock on and please keep these coming!
Zmax oil additive, worked miracles on a turbo pt cruiser I had. Breaks down the sludge but you leave it in for the duration of the oil life. It was endorsed by Carol Shelby back in the late 80s.
Try Xado, its terrific stuff, the engine runs smoother, it makes a ceramic layer on any surface, it was invented to make submarines run more silent to avoid detection by sonar, I can recommend it, I have used it for several cars, and it really makes a difference after a few hundred kms, a friend of mine even had a really worn DS engine, and after he put Xado in there, it ran so much better and even ran more efficient, less petrol per km ( I do not own Xado stock)
If you dont want to rebuild just yet. Try hotter plugs which will help burn off the oil. Just refer to the manufactures spark plug listings. Go 1 grade hotter/harder plug rating.
Due credit to you for trying Jack but I reckon your are clutching at the proverbial straws. The exhaust is showing brown smoke which suggests over fueling i.e. running way too rich on full throttle thus contributing to the blackened plugs. In addition and in my experience , engine flushing often worsen smoking , as some of the carbon build up at the back of the rings which is helping to seal them against the bores is cleared away. It looks like at the very least and if you are on a tight budget you will have to pull the pistons and fit compensating rings. There are companies that supply these and they come with much improved oil control rings. As all of your compressions excepting number 6 are pretty good this fix should suffice for as long as you own the car. Good luck!!
Yep, worth a try, but a bit of a Hail Mary with those symptoms. Perhaps olive oil would be better than Valvoline...... might smell better if nothing else. Look forward to the rebuild, your style will make it interesting and informative. Have just put ZX1 in my E Type as a friction reducer, will see if it makes any difference during the run to Classic Le Mans this year. all the best, C
To add to the genuine Italian style you probably have to wear a very expensive silk suit and carry all your tools in a violin case at all times. Failing that, it becomes part of the foundations of a new build somewhere, or meets a loading shovel on a remote road somewhere? Excellent video Jack, we feel your pain on this.
Used an engine flush on my motorcycle that had 3 cylinders that were up at 150psi and one cylinder that was just 96psi. After the engine flush it was up at 145psi and after running the engine for 600 miles and the rings had reseated . It was rechecked and it was up to 155psi and the other 3 were up at 160psi. That was 7 years ago and the engine is still fine. So it's worked for me.
Really terrible those items fail every 1000 miles with the spark plugs, is there an aftermarket made of better material that lasts?! Nice video. Keep up the good work.
As has been said, the general rule of thumb with compression is that it all should be within 10% - that is, 10% of the compression specs for that engine and each cylinder should be within 10% of each other. These days, engine flushes are a complete waste of time and money and can, in some cases, cause more problems or make the issue worse. Also, most modern oils already have cleaning agents in them and negate the need for a flush like you would have done 30 plus years ago (assuming the oil is changed at a sensible period of time). A leak-down test may be handy to point out whether the rings or valves are leaking on cylinder No. 6, but doing anything other than rebuilding this engine now is a waste of time. Ultimately, this is up to you, and please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think this is an engine for you to rebuild - one silly little mistake can prove to be incredibly costly (if it was an A series mini, that would be different). Get someone who knows what they are doing to work on it.
Jack, try to use NGK BP6EY plugs they have the v grove, recommended is NGKBP7ES however the 6EY work better and don't foul up ever on that engine i run them in a 308GTSI, Mondial 8, Fiat 130 and 2300s when the 7ES was recommended for these models. The smoke is ring wear and bores you won't stop that without a good machinist and not the original pistons/ring kit use JE forged 1mm oversized with the cromoloy rings they come with made in USA we build a couple every year and they last apart from small oil leaks that can't be stopped. Tony.
Nothing wrong with trying 'the quick trick', sometimes those things work, I did a AC recharge from a automotive retail shop, can with gauge etc, seemed like saving a lot, if it works. But if there's a leak then it won't work, AC is complex no doubt. Well it it seems to have worked. So trying to loosen stick rings, of any kind, with a solvent seems a reasonable thing to try, why not really..... having said that, watching you do a full tear down of that lovely engine I want to see, so stuffed rings it is then :)
I caught the start of the TV programme magnum Pi the other day and at the part where he wheels pins off the grass his is blowing smoke too! Maybe " they all do that sir" 😄
First, I like your Intro Style, which does not spoil too much but makes you curious. Like! Second, this kind of content is, what I want to see on your channel... Like! Last (but not least!) - the star of this episode is your dad! I like the idea of dad and son driving in the ferrari. Also he seems to be so polite. Family is so important... L-I-K-E! Keep on going, crazy brit 🙂this type of content is really appreciated!
One thing that might be worth trying before you start tearing the engine down is pull out all the plugs and put some atf down there and leave it to soak in over a few days or if you can a week, atf has got alot of strong detergents in it and that would give it chance to soak into the rings and maybe free them, if that doesn't work then yeah I think that you are right and it looks like a rebuild.
Looked like grey smoke from GoPro when revving/driving so maybe unburnt fuel? But blue smoke anytime means an engine out/strip. Understand why you are putting it off but looks like the time has come. Great vids
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If the rings are that bad, an engine flush for that amount of time will do nothing to them, the only chance would to fill the cylinders with that stuff or ATF and leave it to drain through the rings for some time, then give it a good run and cool down a few times. To be honest, just rebuild it, its going to be far less hassle and actually work. of course that is a IMHO :D
Agree, just avoiding the inevitable, but a route you have to go down before the bills come in. The hardest part is pulling the engine out and putting it back in... But.. when you go down this route you must replace the oil pump, water pump, belts etc and the costs will add up. No idea how expensive this is for a Ferrari, I suspect huge, just done this to our integrale and Elise, they were not cheap. The influenza for sure will put on hold the next visit to the dentist. (Edit- Clutch and possibly flywheel)
When i did mine a got ! litre of petrol and added fuel injector cleaner, atf and any "carbon dissolving" auto treatment and filled each cylinder over the course of a weekend. I left the oil drain plug out so any that went past the rings drained out. In the end 2 cyls held the concoction and 2 still had some leakage but at a lot slower rate.
I was going to say the same, as in sump plug out, keep filling the cylinders with ATF (i used two stroke oil and petroll on a siezed engine) i would refill daily, and if the oil control ring is gummed up it will free off, but takes more than a few hours, more like a week of refilling, then a dose of neat petrol, but let it drain right off before filling with oil and starting
Have you tried an "Italian tune-up"? :-)
I soaked my I6 cylinders in seafoam (topping up, over 4 day period) in an attempt to free up gummed piston rings. Then change the oil & vacuum cylinders immediately before starting!
I would take a wheel nut off, and then from new parts assemble another 308 around it to cure the issues
Not a rusty wheel nut,...........
@@stephenjones4699 Then replace the wheelnut
🤣🤣
...Then send all the discarded parts over to me, I'd have a 308 in a heartbeat, a beautiful old Faz in any condition, it's all fixable, just maybe a bit up scale from young Jack's skill set.
@@gazzafloss I was an engineer before answering a call to Ministry and its obvious to me that Jack aint an engineer he's winging it and doesn't have the skill set as you say. He's bit off more than he can chew though a rebuild might be what's required most likely. Amateur car enthusiasts can do more harm than good I'm amazed with some people who tinker too much. He's a nice guy but working on a car in his pyjama bottoms lol 🤔 what is he all about 🤔😂
The frustrations of an old classic, but persistance always prevails.
And its a Ferrari so worthy of the blood sweat and tears.
Makes good viewing too.
Been watching this from the start 2 years ago and it needed an engine rebuild then.....I think its time you did it once and for all and then enjoy the 308 in all its glory 😁😁😁👍 My fav Ferrari since being a kid 😀
Your dad looks such a genuine chap Jack. It's a shame the treatment didn't help, but it probably cleaned the internals like the oil pickup etc. One thing I do know is that you have an incredible amount of patience, I'd of sold it by now sadly.
Glad to see you and your Dad out having a ride together. Sorry mate, snake oil never works. You need new rings. Looking forward to the bottom rebuild. Good luck, from Canada
Ah the classic Italian dad “Well’…” at 12:15 😂 He couldn’t have shown his true feelings any better than with that word…. Bravo to him for getting involved in the video 🇮🇹
I think we know where this is going Jack. Gloves on… tools out.. engine in pieces on the carpet on the dining room! Block in the bath.. kitchen table with a vice attached..
Bite the bullet, no amount of engine flushes are going to make it right.
It’ll be epic when it’s done.
Hurry before summer!! 👌👌
A slightly hotter plug might keep it running much longer before they oil up. Did that on my Merak and it worked like a charm. In the end you will need to rebuild it anyway.
At this point I'd put cylinder #6 at BDC and stick a borescope down the cylinder and look to see if the walls are scored. That will only confirm the problem but at this point a rebuild of the block is in your future.
When addressing low compression on a cylinder, check with the tester as you have then drop a teaspoon of oil into the cylinder and try again. If the rings aren’t sealing sufficiently this will (for a few seconds) give you a perfect seal. If the compression is still low, there could be a valve/seat issue, possibly stem seals also.
good advice!
Your dad is such a dignified looking gentleman. We need regular commentary from him as things develop.
You will sort this car out sooner or later. Keep at it mate we're all rooting for you!
I had a similar problem not on a Ferrari but a Alfa Spider also tried everything it was caused by ring land on cylinder No1.... Engine rebuild all fixed ..it takes all your sadness away once it's fixed. Good show sir
Great to see you sharing your passion with your dad!
Jack. Another brilliant video featuring your Dad. You can only smile watching your highs and lows of the ferrari.
Can also be valve guide seals. Liqui molly has something for that - Motor Oil Saver.
My old Landcruiser was smoking on startup and using more oil than I would like.
I used the product and after about 300 miles the smoking stopped and after a further 2000 the oil level hasn't moved.
Jack, you missed to use Liqui Moly Oil Stop.
That would rather be the product to really fight your issue (as long as the internals are reasonably sound).
It’s very well known in the world of young- and oldtimers.
You would need to have it in your engine for at least 450 miles before you would start to see results though.
We all do enjoy watching your struggles so much. Please continue.
Definately rings. Had the same problem on an old Rover Mini. Got the engine rebuilt (and re-bored) and it went on to 120 thousand miles - until it literally rotted away.
As said a few days ago by another person... Cold Dry compression test and write down the Results then a tea spoon of oil into each Cylinder and write down same then also an 'Air Leak down' tests on those Cylinders with respective inlet and then exhaust valves closed, to see if the valves are passing, or if any Blow By is coming from same...Glove on the tail pipe would show up exhaust Valve leakage, could even be Oil leakage down the Valve stem seals...if so maybe there could be combustion gases blowing up through when the Oil Filler Cap is taken off and when the Car is Running, Great Upload...
My absolute favourite genre of your videos. Whilst exhausting with the emotional rollercoaster of it all, hugely enjoyable too. Keep the faith and thanks for the videos.
Man I am glad you tried this. It was worth a shot. Good luck on the rebuild. Bottom end rebuilds are not for the faint of heart. I hope you have a good shop do it. Also see if you can have the whole rotating assembly 0 balanced while they are in there. A V8 benefits greatly from a proper balance job. Your power and will be smoother and the engine will rev like silk.
Another great episode Jack. Your dad is completely charming and seeing you both out for a drive in the Ferrari was perfect.
Loving the intro to the program. Clarkson would be proud!! Perseverance is the only solution to virtually any problem.
Thanks for making these videos. It makes me realise how much I love my trouble free 12 year old Rav4.
I think the plug gives you the answer. Wet and black on 1 side and washed clean on the other. This suggests leaking valve stem oil seals allied to bore wash.
I think the problem is you need a pinch more oregano & less basil. They are very finnicky with such things.
ps are you sure that's your dad? I know he looks like Enzo (especially in darker sunglasses) but surely having an Italian son buying a Ferrari is like the holy grail of fatherhood.....
Might be a good idea to have a look in the cylinders with a camera . Those inspection boroscopes are quite cheap and handy to have.
I bought a 1958 Porsche for $6,800 in the mid 1990's that had a 1960 Super 90 engine and a tan repaint over original silver. We called it the "Peanut" because it came from Georgia. Carbs were worn, distributor was very worn, and it burned oil. Removed the engine (trivial in a 356) and found a crack in the case. Located a 58 super engine in Texas and had it rebuilt by a shop with a national reputation, about 50 miles away in Allentown, PA. Everything was gone over. Nothing left to diagnose. Amazingly the engine went back together with stock bearings, no oversize needed. New iron NPR cylinders and pistons made in Japan. New Bosch alloy distributor made in Brazil. I rebuilt the Zenith carbs myself. Rallied it with local Porsche club and was never let down. Car sold at Amelia Island a few years back and now lives in Wales.
Thanks!
I feel your pain Jack, the SC 924 seems to work for 20 mins before something else breaks!
A small tip, whe pouring oil keep the container side on if possible as you get a smoother pour with less gulping and less mess. I know it's not a major thing but it's a thing.
Keep up the great work 👍.
So nice to see the Influenzo again. Must admit that it's foibles make it seem even more exotic. I guess now hear comes the money round and rebuild the lump. Best of luck Jack, pulling for you and the Ferrari.
I know it's a pain to have the engine out and apart but imagine how wonderful it will be when it's done. I still remember how I felt when I was first taken out for a spin in a hard top model when, as a sixteen year old apprentice, I worked for the main dealer in Colchester. One of those events that will stay with me forever.
Just a thought....have you checked the engine breather?! If that's blocked it'll blow by like hell
I had a similar rush of joy but from fixing an electric golf buggy. Easy fix/ charred terminal change. Fired from all cylinders. Good runner now
Hiya Jack. Firstly, my apologies as this has turned out to be quite a long post! But please read on, because I think it's relevant. One thing I noticed with those additives is that sometimes they can take a little while to work as much as they say on the tin. Give the Influenzo a few more trips out before you call this one - he looked like he was smoking less afterward than he was before the LiquiMoly went in.....so maybe it's the same with that stuff. The rings are a little worn in my Triumph 2500S, so I do a flush before each oil change, then she gets the Penrite HPR-30 20w/60 oil, then an additive that increases the viscosity in the oil when it gets hot. I get the occasional puff on start-up now, but nothing else and best of all, good oil pressure when she;s warm.
Mate - your Influenzo reminds me so much of Stacey my Stag. I so feel your pain.....
I have always wanted a Triumph Stag and this one was a beaut. Little did I know how much she would test my resolve. In the first 3 months, I learned so much about her that had been hidden because she had obviously sat for a few years longer than the previous owner had let on and drove beautifully to begin with. Over the 700-odd miles up the country to home, I learned that the alternator would occasionally stop working, not to fill her up over three quarters of a tank of petrol or else I would lose a fair bit out the cap because it didn't seal, the gearbox Overdrive unit leaked onto the exhausts, the speedometer cable was not retained properly and was also sitting on the exhaust, the clutch return spring became weak and I had to hold the pedal up with my left foot so it didn't constantly put a small amount of pressure on the plate, the windscreen washers didn't work.....and by the time I had driven the full distance, the suspension had freed up again and I was able to tell that the shocks were shot. I sorted these fairly quickly, but it seemed that every time I fixed one thing (or replaced a tired seal, broken lens, or other cosmetic improvement), something else would break or stop working.
I was out on a drive in June of 2019 a week after her being in the shop for 6 weeks with her latest list of needs - getting the exhaust replaced, the carb reconditioned, the valley gasket replaced and repairs to the clutch slave and mount after a mishap with a LARGE pothole - and I had the top down, cruising along on a sunny winter's day with that famed burble in my ears......put my foot on the brake to slow for a corner - and it went straight to the floor. I nursed the car home on the handbrake and parked it in the garage.......where she sat for 21 months because I was so annoyed with her. I got her master cylinder sleeved with stainless in October 2021, bled the brakes and she was away again.
However, she then decided it was time to destroy (and I MEAN destroy) the drag strut bushes, so I did them and all the hardware that goes with it. She blew a headlight bulb, so I took the opportunity to upgrade the headlight lenses to Hella units and replace all headlight bulbs, and a dead courtesy lamp bulb on the T-bar inside. Replacing a headlight bulb involves taking the entire grille out (more or less) if it's high beam, so perfect timing. Then the OD started kicking in and out like the solenoid was playing up. Turned out to be a bad connection caused by a broken wire in the gearstick harness, so I replaced that. There were a couple more minor incidents, but they were fixed easy enough, but I also replaced the last of the body and hood seals I had been getting round to doing, thinking maybe she would be nice and lay off the repair demands for a while. It was not to be.....
Shortly after that and on a trip down country, she started developing a bad miss. From my troubleshooting at the destination, it pointed at the distributor's internals (which I know are getting tired) and lack of mechanical advance. However, not to be outdone, on the way home, I was 26km from where I had been staying with family and I was being flagged down by the driver behind me. I started to pull over and then the rear wheels just locked up and she slid off the road. The quill shaft housing on the front of the diff had broken away and the diff had rocked forward, tightening the handbrake cable over the trailing arms and causing the slide..........but she was on fire under there as well! The quill shaft housing coming off had allowed the diff to dump hot diff oil on the hotter exhaust and it had spontaneously combusted. Sooooooo glad I have an extinguisher! So, car cannot be driven and I am in the middle of nowhere. Called the AA and got her brought back home and over to my mechanic's yard. He's looking to retire on what I have been spending on this car.....but I digress.
Turns out that the retaining nut on the front of the pinion shaft came off, destroyed the splines and seal on the pinion shaft, destroyed the mating coupling to the quill shaft housing and the splines on the quill shaft itself, then jammed them all, destroying the housing as well. Good news was that the crown wheel, planetary and spider gears were all fine as no detritus got in there, but all seals and front bearings were destroyed. So.....nearly $3k (in my currency) later (about 1500 pounds sterling) and I have had enough and am calling it quits. Yes, I love the Stag, but the reality of owning my dream car has been a nightmare. Somebody else can take it from here.....although I have nearly replaced every damn thing except the engine and gearbox now!
When I said I feel your pain, I meant it! Enough is enough though and there has to be a line drawn somewhere when a car is costing you more in frustration than you are getting back in therapeutic drives in the countryside. When she comes back from the shop, she's going down the road. I am not going to tot up exactly how much she has cost me in the past 5 years in new parts, time and the occasional trip to the mechanic when I cannot do the job myself, but with the bills I remember off the top of my head, it would be well north of $15k (7.5k GBP) - a pittance compared to the Influenzo, but by the same token, Stacey is not worth the amount the Influenzo is, so on scale it is comparatively similar. I have definitely spent more on her than I paid for her 5 years ago and I think enough is enough. I will still have a 79 Triumph 2500S (on of the last ever assembled here in NZ) and a 77 Mini that has been somewhat customised and modified, so they are enough to handle between them, I think!
Good luck though, Jack and all the best. I mean it, mate!
As the owner of a 2T dirt bike that's running a bit rich I can tell you can clean carbon fouled plugs.
A blowtorch will burn the carbon off and they'll be fine.
Even with propane?
@@sjoroverpirat Yup, that's what I use.
Hold the metal piece that the wire clips to in a set of pliers, blowtorch the firing end until it's red hot, then put it down somewhere heat resistant to cool off.
You can get them almost white again if you put them through an ultrasonic cleaner after that.
In a dirt bike I just rinse-repeat, in a road car I'd probably put a limit to the number of cycles before tossing them because if they fail a tow is going to be more than the money you're saving.
With a V12 going through plugs every 2K miles would get expensive fast, especially if you're buying iridium plugs.
MAP gas works best.
I remember back in the 80s my Dad had a spark plug cleaner...it was like a mini sand blaster the size of a mug. You plugged it in, stuck a plug in the rubber bung and when you started it, it sounded like an kitchen mixer. The plugs came out gleaming..but I've never seen one since then..
I do the same with my plugs, my 2 stroke lawn mower is the worst offender. I sit the plugs loosely in the vice and burn them till they turn white.
I used to have trouble with the extenders and mine always used oil too, but in fairness the handbook said it used a litre of oil per 200 miles which was about right.
After I sold the 308 the guy who then stripped the motor for the cars restoration said it was in pretty good shape apart from slightly bent valve stem which had been causing hot spotting in the coolant but not affecting the running
Looking forward to the inevitable engine rebuild series
Whenever one cylinder is lower on compression than others by more than 10% it’s time for the engine to come out
The oil residue on only one side of the spark plug suggests oil entering the combustion chamber via the intake valve (bad valve seal). Oil getting past rings typically will be more universal in coating the plug.
"Back in the day" of my Alfa flat 4's with carburettors I had a spark plug cleaner. 12v motor and a bag of iron filings that would blast the spark plug electrode clean. It did work!
Hello,
here in Bulgaria the common practise is to fill the cylinders with gas for lamps. Also its good to rotate the crank after the gas is down in the sump and refill it again... It will take a good amount of time cause its a Vee engine but I think its the last hope for that rings :) BR
I salute you! If it's any consolation I can give an update on the UK'S cheapest 996: the annoying tick has been diagnosed as a lazy lifter. As soon as you put an extra 50 rpm on from idle it vanishes, I've tried EVERY oil additive on the market and none of them have made any difference. I'm convinced that it's all 'snake oil'.
Mines a very early build so I could just increase the idle via the cable but at this stage in my frustration I really can't be bothered. Good luck to you
That was the worst thing to do, putting in an additive to thin the oil and break up any sludge on an engine that has an oil problem. The sludge might of been keeping oil from escaping and you then go and give it a right foot full.
There is a RUclipsr that owns an engine reconditioning shop in the uk that perhaps you could reach out to and do a collaboration, as you need a rebuild .
Great to hear you've found the fault. It's always something simple, but you only find that out after hours of painful fault finding !!!!!
So so sad! Obsession with this nightmare car!! My 1979 308 GTS NEVER (apart from a top end leaking water hose, easy fix!) had a problem in three years in my possession!, and I thoroughly enjoyed her! Are you just looking for problems for your U Tube channel?!Mmmmmmmm!?
Have you checked for a blocked engine breather? That could cause pressure in the crankcase and force oil past the rings. Happened on my sons mini when he connected the breather to a closed connection on the air box.
I have!!
@@Number27 time for a bore scope then?
I have used BG ERP and gained 27% overall on compression on one vehicle, but that said, if the engine has anything more than coking around the piston rings, you need to fix the fault. The BG treatment transformed the vehicle I had.
You could use a bore scope to see how the cylinders look eh. If the bores look good, especially #6, try the trick mentioned below. Drain out that fresh oil and store it. Fill all cylinders with ATF through the plug holes and leave it in there for a few days, topping up as needed. Let everything drain out via the sump. After a few ways, stop adding ATF. Leave it overnight or a day until the fluid stops dripping out the drain plug, then with the plugs out just bump the starter to clear the cylinders. Put maybe a liter of your oil back in and let that flush the sump pan out. Refit the drain plug, refill your oil, add some fresh to level, and then see what you're looking at.
Nice 60 mile 'Italian Tune Up' there😁😁. Thanks for keeping us entertained.
A pleasure to be introduced to Papa - would be good to see a side-by-side comparison of his pleased and displeased facial expression! I'm currently struggling with oiled plugs on my (single cylinder, 1964) Moto Morini - will try risotto - as I'm from Staffordshire, I'll obviously put in extra parmigiano. Thanks for another great episode. X
Excellent Chris very enjoyable to watch frustrating for you and costly; still excellent presentation.
I think it has been mentioned before, but using a Colortune might let you see what's going on in each combustion chamber. Having just finished rebuilding the engine in my old Sunbeam Rapier may I wish you good luck and no nasty, expensive surprises!
I had an old Porsche in for test a couple of weeks back, failed with a similar complaint. We did the STP treatment, 6 runs of 30 minutes over 2 days. Significant reduction in emissions and no visible smoke. We gave it a dose of the leave in Seafoam and off went a happy chap. Could be worth trying if the engine isn't stripped down.
Back in the late 80s I used to use Wynn's Oil additive for my XR3i. Worked a treat.👍👍
Ha ha yeah I used to have an xr3i which had dreadful tappet noise; I got through tons of that gloop.
I'd try what some of the commentators said about going in the top end. I've used seafoam on many engines that were smoking or running poorly both in the engine oil like you did, but better effect is spraying into the throttle body or letting the vacuum line to the brake booster to suck it in. I unstuck a ring on a 1983 Honda Nighthawk 650 with seafoam sprayed into the carb and put another 50,000 miles on that engine after the previous owner gave up on it and wanted the bike out of his garage. People think it's snake oil and a waste of money but in the states it's like $8 and nothing to lose compared to en engine rebuild on an exotic. I'm rebuilding a Carrera 3.2 engine now and I'm probably close to $20,000 in parts alone so those that think spending $8 on a longshot bet are really idiots. You have absolutely nothing to lose so at least try it even if you probably have worn rings.
Great entertainment, makes me feel a little better I’m not the only one with similar issues 👍
I could NOT tell from the video if the smoke was black or blue. If blue, it is oil, but if black it is fuel mixture, if so can you access an emissions tester that can monitor while driving? One thought for cylinder 6. is pull all the plugs, disable fuel supply and ignition, check compression, then pour a tablespoon of oil into the spark-plug hole, crank engine for a few seconds then check compression, if still low, then it is a valve problem, if it raises to full, then it is rings. If rings, one possible fix might be to pour maybe a tablespoon of the Liqui-Moly into cyl. 6 and crank for a minuet or so, then repeat.
When you had the Ferrari guy balance the carbs a year ago, he seemed to set the idle super rich. He even said that was normal with these cars. That was able to get every cylinder to idle, but I am not surprised to see that your plugs reflect rich running.
You are awesome to watch, I don't even follow Ferraris but I watched the whole video
Jack,
looks like you might have installed chinesium valve stem seals. Possibly they are so bad that they not only cause the smoke on startup, but also smoke on normal running.
Possibly you also have a crankcase breathing issue. If the crankcase is subject to pressure, oil can be pushed past the valve stem seals.
Symptoms include pressure coming up the dipstick and smoke during engine braking. Both easy to check.
Its funny how we all like to feel we've impressed our fathers with the cars we buy and yet they remain pretty much indifferent. My Dad was the best killjoy of any car fun, yet I loved to show my latest car to him... on the way home I felt satisfied that he had been thoroughly indifferent to my latest toy. This confirmed to me that I have bought the right car while leaving me flat and fed up at the same time
Using 100% synthetic oil on that engine, considering its great detergent properties, removed a lot of carbon also from those piston rings, I'm pretty certain. Ideal oil would be a good mineral or semi-synthetic 15w50 or even 20w50. Those carbon deposits are crutial to mantain some compression on tired vintage engines.
Yep .The carb 70;s 308s have steel liners and compatible rings to suit .Full synth is a killer .The gaps ( tolerances ) are massive by todays or indeed the 80 s QV Ferraris standards .I use “ classic “ mineral 15/40 every 3 K change on my 3*8 carb GT 4 .Also mentioned by many with carbs you get oil dilution by the fuel , esp with choke or without when cold as the Stone Age cylinder tech hasn’t expanded to seal properly.Any how plenty of key board warriors singing about synthetic oils ……….It’s not there car .
Marvell Mystery Oil, you can run up to 20% of the crank case oil volume, but I'd run it for a while the rings might recover at least 6000 miles, best way to get rings to seal is to accelerate up high rpm in a fixed gear like 3rd gear or second gear, then let it decelerate all the way down, then back up again, down again many time. You want to keep your rpms up all the time other wise the plug will foul quicker, less idling and low rpms.
I have used CD2 before and it freaking worked. We did a compression test before and after and it level out the compression across all cylinders. I don't know if they sell it anymore. That was back in 199x's.
i did an engine flush once and the first oil cycle it used even more oil than before, probably because theres always a bit off residu in the engine that thinned down the new oil a bit. After a thickening additive and then another oil change it was fine for me
I use Liquid Moly in my engines too, I still have to notice any mpg inxrease but the noise of the cam/valves in my big GM V8s has improved a bit..as long as it does deliver the viscosity support to the engine that's all I need (plus I only use synthetic oil).
Put some 5W40 fully synthetic diesel engine oil.
It has to be diesel engine oil specifically for the additives that help dissolve the sludge.
When i bought my SAAB, the 2.0 turbo gasoline engine was so undermaintained that it clattered like an old clapped out diesel engine.
But the diesel engine oil helped it quiet down over some 100-150 kilometers.
Now after 20k kilometers it's completely quiet and runs perfectly well.
As for the root cause of the noise, as this is not my first SAAB, i know that the hydraulic valve buckets tend to collect sludge and clatter like crazy.
And where previously i had to take the cams out and disassemble the buckets to clean them out, with diesel engine oil they cleaned up themselves, so i count this as a good way to clean an engine up.
Also that engine oil you drained looks terrible, almost darker than the oil i drained out my undermaintained engine.
It is imperative to blip the throttle on the flush cycle every minute and keep the idle at 1500 RPM! This then has the best chance of clearing the ring lands of detritus and varnish! Your compression test shows the ring seal is good! You could have a blocked drain back hole I one or more of the ring lands. You need to check all plugs and also get a inspection camera to check each cylinder! Aldi had them in for £40.
The thing is though. The build up in ring lands ends up compacted. And the only real way to remove it is to remove heads and sump! Remove each rod n piston set one by one! Clean and put new oil rings in at the least! Also plastigauge the crank journals on the big ends and mains! And replace bearings if needed. Theirs a lot of companies that specialises in quality aftermarket parts cheaper and better quality than Ferrari! As at the end of these cars! Although exotic beautiful and soulful. There is a history of bad building and design elements in all their cars. Not just from that era! But modern cars also!!
Me personally! I’d sell it and buy a Lamborghini Uraco! Or if possible a beautiful Maserati Bora!!! Both better built bruits of that era!!
I do hope you get it fixed bud! Just for your peace of mind if anything!! As I can feel your pain watching you!!
Good luck!!!
Happy to send you some from Canada !!!!!
Bless you for trying Jack but I think your clutching at straws now mate , that engines got worn bores / pistons and or rings. On another note , the smoke from the rear on hard acceleration looked more brownish than blue that would be unburnt fuel suggesting running way too rich on full chat and contributing to the blackened plugs. Finally , engine flushes often worsen smoking , as any carbon or gumming of the rings gets cleaned away which is in effect helping to seal things
regards
Mike
yeah running rich
“you’re” Einstein. It literally means “you are”…
The Influenzo has only done 25.000 miles.
I wouldn't have thought the pistons or bores would be worn at that mileage.
Yes the cars probably been driven hard all its life.
Still 25k still low mileage...
@@stuartd9741 something like a Ferrari that hasn't been driven hard is just as likely to oil up and deposit carbon.
'70s.'80s high perforemance Italian cars that were used to pose around town and did few miles rather than burn up the autostrada often needed servicing more often.
A proper diagnosis is required rather than jumping at magic additives or an expensive rebuild.
@@stuartd9741 Yes, but if I recall, he did overheat it a while ago, causing one or more of the heads to need to be rebuilt or replaced. It seems that's when this problem started, and overheating the engine can cause all sorts of issues.
Great to see your dad involved jack.
So if the compression is ok, I would look upstream of the valve seat, valve head junction. All the plugs get fowled eventually, minor differences intake air distribution at first, but in time they all get coated. Bad air, bad smog pump, bad crankcase venting, bad pvc valve, bad carb float bowl levels, bad rubber valve seals, wrong tolerance on valve guides, contaminated fuel? Sorry, too long a list.
Try Liqui Moly Oil Stop Smoke, my 1.7 Volvo 340 GLE had hundreds of thousands of miles on it when I bought it (mainly for the number plate!) and smoked. I liked the car, ran it for years with stop smoke. It did the trick. I see that someone else has suggested this too.
Your right about the plugs. you have too replace them.
It really is a miracle, that Liqui Moly... that I had a slight glimmer of hope that it could work! Italian here too, mangia mangia that looked good!
Your videos are amazing. I love every one of them. My only comment - as a real Italian - is that the Influenzo is a “she” and not a “he!” Rock on and please keep these coming!
Because you have smoke after initial start up points to valve guides.Blue smoke on acceleration after overrun points to piston bore problem.
Zmax oil additive, worked miracles on a turbo pt cruiser I had. Breaks down the sludge but you leave it in for the duration of the oil life. It was endorsed by Carol Shelby back in the late 80s.
Try Xado, its terrific stuff, the engine runs smoother, it makes a ceramic layer on any surface, it was invented to make submarines run more silent to avoid detection by sonar, I can recommend it, I have used it for several cars, and it really makes a difference after a few hundred kms, a friend of mine even had a really worn DS engine, and after he put Xado in there, it ran so much better and even ran more efficient, less petrol per km ( I do not own Xado stock)
Time for a rebuild I'm thinking. Thanks for posting. No such thing as a budget Ferrari
If you dont want to rebuild just yet. Try hotter plugs which will help burn off the oil. Just refer to the manufactures spark plug listings. Go 1 grade hotter/harder plug rating.
Fab to see dad out n about, take care Jack, I’m sure you’ll nail in one day 👍🙏🏁😊
Due credit to you for trying Jack but I reckon your are clutching at the proverbial straws. The exhaust is showing brown smoke which suggests over fueling i.e. running way too rich on full throttle thus contributing to the blackened plugs. In addition and in my experience , engine flushing often worsen smoking , as some of the carbon build up at the back of the rings which is helping to seal them against the bores is cleared away. It looks like at the very least and if you are on a tight budget you will have to pull the pistons and fit compensating rings. There are companies that supply these and they come with much improved oil control rings. As all of your compressions excepting number 6 are pretty good this fix should suffice for as long as you own the car. Good luck!!
Yep, worth a try, but a bit of a Hail Mary with those symptoms. Perhaps olive oil would be better than Valvoline...... might smell better if nothing else. Look forward to the rebuild, your style will make it interesting and informative. Have just put ZX1 in my E Type as a friction reducer, will see if it makes any difference during the run to Classic Le Mans this year. all the best, C
To add to the genuine Italian style you probably have to wear a very expensive silk suit and carry all your tools in a violin case at all times. Failing that, it becomes part of the foundations of a new build somewhere, or meets a loading shovel on a remote road somewhere? Excellent video Jack, we feel your pain on this.
Used an engine flush on my motorcycle that had 3 cylinders that were up at 150psi and one cylinder that was just 96psi.
After the engine flush it was up at 145psi and after running the engine for 600 miles and the rings had reseated . It was rechecked and it was up to 155psi and the other 3 were up at 160psi. That was 7 years ago and the engine is still fine. So it's worked for me.
Really terrible those items fail every 1000 miles with the spark plugs, is there an aftermarket made of better material that lasts?! Nice video. Keep up the good work.
As has been said, the general rule of thumb with compression is that it all should be within 10% - that is, 10% of the compression specs for that engine and each cylinder should be within 10% of each other.
These days, engine flushes are a complete waste of time and money and can, in some cases, cause more problems or make the issue worse. Also, most modern oils already have cleaning agents in them and negate the need for a flush like you would have done 30 plus years ago (assuming the oil is changed at a sensible period of time).
A leak-down test may be handy to point out whether the rings or valves are leaking on cylinder No. 6, but doing anything other than rebuilding this engine now is a waste of time.
Ultimately, this is up to you, and please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think this is an engine for you to rebuild - one silly little mistake can prove to be incredibly costly (if it was an A series mini, that would be different). Get someone who knows what they are doing to work on it.
Jack, try to use NGK BP6EY plugs they have the v grove, recommended is NGKBP7ES however the 6EY work better and don't foul up ever on that engine i run them in a 308GTSI, Mondial 8, Fiat 130 and 2300s when the 7ES was recommended for these models. The smoke is ring wear and bores you won't stop that without a good machinist and not the original pistons/ring kit use JE forged 1mm oversized with the cromoloy rings they come with made in USA we build a couple every year and they last apart from small oil leaks that can't be stopped.
Tony.
Used liquid moly lubricant stuff like oil additive more protection on moving parts. Did make my bmw running alot quieter and smoother
Nothing wrong with trying 'the quick trick', sometimes those things work, I did a AC recharge from a automotive retail shop, can with gauge etc, seemed like saving a lot, if it works. But if there's a leak then it won't work, AC is complex no doubt. Well it it seems to have worked. So trying to loosen stick rings, of any kind, with a solvent seems a reasonable thing to try, why not really..... having said that, watching you do a full tear down of that lovely engine I want to see, so stuffed rings it is then :)
I caught the start of the TV programme magnum Pi the other day and at the part where he wheels pins off the grass his is blowing smoke too! Maybe " they all do that sir" 😄
I had add warm-up Swiss product addictives for my Alfa Spider great product I had also oil leaks and oil burn, now all is gone also do more kms.
First, I like your Intro Style, which does not spoil too much but makes you curious. Like!
Second, this kind of content is, what I want to see on your channel... Like!
Last (but not least!) - the star of this episode is your dad! I like the idea of dad and son driving in the ferrari. Also he seems to be so polite. Family is so important... L-I-K-E!
Keep on going, crazy brit 🙂this type of content is really appreciated!
One thing that might be worth trying before you start tearing the engine down is pull out all the plugs and put some atf down there and leave it to soak in over a few days or if you can a week, atf has got alot of strong detergents in it and that would give it chance to soak into the rings and maybe free them, if that doesn't work then yeah I think that you are right and it looks like a rebuild.
interesting video, thanks, looking forward for updates
Looked like grey smoke from GoPro when revving/driving so maybe unburnt fuel? But blue smoke anytime means an engine out/strip. Understand why you are putting it off but looks like the time has come. Great vids