$5,000+ is a good chunk of change. I would expect QC and service to be top tier. What else can I get for $5,000 (each) , plenty. An amazing vacation, a new chiropractic roller table, an exemplary firearm, a decent used motorcycle, higher end home safe, 5 ounces of platinum, etc.
I'm a big fan of this channel and one of the early subscribers. But that would be Tim Mosso, and and it isn't close. And this is with all due reapect to everyone else, especially Mike who is up there with the best.
@@kresimirpleic No idea who that is. What I can tell you is that Mike certainly has a lot of insight and passion for the industry and I wish him all the best with his channel and personal collecting journey!
@@johanvandersandt8904 Tim Mosso has all the knowledge to make this or any type of watch content (manufacturing, history, markets...), but he mostly reviews high end watches. He has an unparalleled acces to the best watches in the world. He also does watch talks with collectors as well as online fans when he will basically solo a podcast because that guy doesn't need notes. He shoots facts seemingly from a machine gun, no waffle or yapping like some youtubers (not Mike), just straight up pure concentraded information. His understanding of movements and what goes into making a high end watch is... you'll see for yourself. He works for the 1916 company (formerly known as Watchbox). The company has two RUclips channels - one is review based and the other is talk based.
This is another excellent video, Mike. I like how your content feels like a conversation between enthusiasts, and unlike other creators, I never feel like you're trying to sell me a watch. A lot of the time, I think it's simply their enthusiasm that makes it feel that way, but your content generally addresses watches and companies in the context of the industry with a nice, calm and rational enthusiasm. As always, it's very appreciated! You hit the nail on the head with all of them. I will add that the Omega Aquaterra bracelet has kept me from buying it on several occasions.
Thanks - I'm happy to know that my approach is being received in the way intended. I aspire to invite conversation and to add a different perspective. I don't profess to be "right". I just want to do something interesting and make something worth watching 😊
So glad you brought up Tudors QC issues. It's something I've dealt with personally with my BB54 (lume pip) and Pelly 39 (poor hand finishing and lume). These things are brought up all the time in the forums, yet never mentioned on RUclips. Glad you did. I've let my Tudors go for these reasons.
@@JensPeterLiljegren Attorcious lume and visibly roughly cut hands that looked like they were cut with a pair of scissors. Also I swear it had visible dust inside. It wasn't such an obvious issue like the lume pip, but it felt like a slap on the face for such an expensive watch. I've since let both Tudors go. I may consider an FXD in the future, if I can get it used for a decent price.
@@cheesychester9647 Thanks for replying. I wear a Pelly 39 as my daily beater and have had a far better quality experience than you. I totally get your disappointment and criticism of Tudor. In this price range flawed hands and dust are unacceptable when purchasing a new watch. Hope you’ll find a satisfying used FXD!
Was actually a difficult decision. I prefer not to say something that isn't clearly substantiated but my own experiences, hearsay from acquaintences and a lot of online chatter led me to conclude that it was a reasonable criticism to bring up 😊
Yeah I completely agree. Had to let my BB58 go after an exchange because both models had so much dust under the crystal. Pelagos 39 had sandy-feeling bezel and scratch on the seconds hand. Had to search thru 4 models of the BB54 to find one where the bezel pip and logo were both centered, and then low and behold: in my car yesterday in the sunlight I saw that the hour hand is very roughly cut out, you can see extra metal sticking off the side. So out of 7 Tudor watches, all 7 have had some kind of QC issue. Crazy. Love their products, but they need to tidy up
I absolutely agree with the quick release for the Rolex models mentioned. Recently, one thing that has become my "strong repellent" from the models I want is bracelet/clasp size micro adjustment. I don't want to use aftermarket bracelets or some addons just to fully enjoy the watch piece I want. If microbrands can do it for a fraction of the price, then the same is expected from bigger brands. I am definitely a bracelet guy, and in the summer season, I very often need to micro-adjust the clasp. If that is something I cannot do without the tools and properly fit my watch, that is a big turnoff. I went so far that I refuse to buy the desired pieces until they sort that out. :) Except that I am a sucker for diver watches. The majority of my collection consists of divers, and what I crave more about is the red bezel models. P.S. Great video, as always! 🔥
A monta bracelet is on par with a Rolex in my opinion. A Fears dial is comparable with an Omega dial in some cases. Cheaper brands do push more expensive brands to stay on their toes. That's my contention at least . Cheers 😊
Great points! I agree with all of them. Highlights for we were "An Acqua Terra needs to be maxium 12.5mm". Absolut truth. Iwc pricing. I cannot accept a stainless steel, 3 handed, printed dial, non-color-matched date wheel, non-orginal design watch for 6k???? If I wanted a fleiger why not buy a Laco or Stowa that has the same heritage with thay design.
Spot on with Omega. I really want to by a Seamaster 300, but at 13.9 mm for a no date watch, it's sort of a dealbreaker for me. I get that the coaxial movement requires more space, but if Rolex can make a Daytona 11.9 mm, then Omega should be able to get the 300 down to 12.9 mm.
Funny comment, as I don't recall any Omega limited edition in the latest years. Several halo models with limited availability (nothing unique to Omega), but no limited editions per se. Yet people complains about Omega's LE like it was 2010 and nobody rises an eye when Seiko/Grand Seiko just churns out LE after LE, often with ridiculous numbers...
@@brafya The catalog is over saturated and Omega's marketing is straight up embarrassing. Zoe Kravitz seriously LOL. That's the crap Omega is all about now. They are turning into a fashion brand. That's the vibe they give off
As Portuguese, glad you came here for your vacations - the whether this year was not great, but this was somehow a different year even for us that live in Portugal :) One thing that is missing in Portugal is a secondary market that delivers to their costumers a way to buy vintage watches reliably.
All valid points about Omega, but those changes will just push their prices higher and thus further out of reach for most of us. That's why I finally pulled the trigger on an Aqua Terra. I'm too price sensitive to absorb further increases, which I guess makes me an undesirable customer for them, but even a sales associate at an Omega boutique recently told me he thinks their watches are getting too expensive and isn't pleased about it.
Agree with most of it. I suggest you take pilot training before you talk about Breitling dials. This one small step will clear the fog and allow you to see the light. Agree with your comment on Stellita. I have a 200, it’s in a small brand Swiss made. My goal is to collect watches with various movements to compare and nuance them. More power reserve is the next move for me. Your fake watch analogy was great. One positive about the fakes. If there are more fakes the thieves will eventually give up. They can’t find a real RM to steal. We need to do that with cars.
Using the smaller-sized E6B instead of the full-size is tough enough to nearly impossible to use in Texas summer air flying solo; that Breitling might be good on the ground... and if I were using a loupe
Like the point on the fakes - Hide the originals in plain sight. I remember seeing a video of some guy that was robbed at a restaurant and the thief came back with the watch when he realised it was a fake. 😊
The criticism on Sellitata is spot on. While they do develop new movements and new features they really need to update their SW200 and SW300 workhorses every so often.
They do iterative changes on them, gear tooth profile, more and more complications added over time. Look at the number of SW200 variants there are now direct from Sellita compared to the original ETA 2824 group (Basically the 2824 date, 2834 "Rolex style" day and date, 2836 day date). Sellita now offers 18 variants (moonphase, power reserve, pointer date, small seconds at 6h or 9h etc...) and 3 skeletonization pattern options just for the SW200 family. And they've increased the PR of the SW300 to 50h minimum/56 typical, compared to the ETA 2892's 42. They've also added the SW600 movements to 56h minimum PR, though these are big movements (designed so that a brand can use the same case size for a time-only watch as the chronograph size case, similar to ETA Valgrange movements) and not seen too much yet, closest I can think of is a Sellita custom that seems to be a manual wind version of an SW660 used in the Raul Pages/Massena watch.
@@dimman77the ETA 2892-2 has 42 hours. But that is not the latest iteration ETA supplies to the likes of Longines and others. They are now above 64hours. Already. And going up.
I'm aware of AMT, but for Sellita to make a difference the entry offerings need to be upgraded. Just like Mercedes where the A class inevitably would inherit S class technology, the entry models need to take a step up 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Mike you need to look at Sellita's evolution from basic 2824 and 2892 replacements to what they are offering now, as I touched on briefly in the above post. They are working iteratively and continuously. The other thing is it's not AMT trickling down to base Sellita, it's base Sellita trying to advance for AMT. As car analogies go it's more Toyota starting with their economy cars and eventually developing Lexus which is far more difficult than the reverse with the MB S to A class example.
I asked the lady in Mappin & Web to take oyster off my new 224270 (after first sizing it). She refused! I only want to wear it on a single-pass seatbelt nato. Maybe occasionally on the bracelet over winter, when in long sleeves. It was a total pita to remove mysef. Incredibly, to fit a single layer of seatbelt nato through the springbar to case back, I had to bend the springbar to create a gap!! As you say, with Rolex, it's their way.. or sod off. This, IDGuy, and Jeffrey McMahon - my favourite YT subscriptions 👍
Excellent content as always. I can see how you added additional edits and pop up text to your video; which makes it even more professional and refined. Plus it drives your points home. Been watching your channel for a year or so now, and always love watching your new videos. Keep rolling out the content, perhaps a bracelet industry review in the future? 👀 All the best and keep at it! 🎉
Another solid episode. Poor Breguet! Ever thought duplicating your videos as podcasts as well? I often just listen to your videos in the car. You definitely have the smooth voice for it. Keep up the great work!
A pleasure to listen to you. I am amazed at the depth of detail, brand knowledge and industry insight that you show. I am brilliant at what I do and am an expert. But I could never talk for a half an hour with passion and enthusiasm about it. A fast mind you have there, brotherman! Love your channel. Bravo
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch besides hosting this channel, what if I may ask, is your position in the watch game, for you come across as a watchmaker, definitely as a broad spectrum enthusiast, a collector perhaps and you mention attending watch expos, and so I ask if you would share what it is that you 'do' in the world of watches. Yes I agree...fix the lume pip ✔️. Do you mind sharing the answer to my question on this forum?
Hi Mike, great video as usual! I was the one who commented in your previous video, that got a Tudor BB54 with misaligned dial (between twelve hour marker and the shield logo, they are not aligned). Just wanna update that you can claim the warranty for it, but they estimated it will take 4 - 6 months to order the dial and send it here to Indonesia. And funny thing is, they can’t guarantee that the new dial will be perfectly aligned as they show in the Tudor’s website, the 12 hour and the shield logo are also misaligned🤣 Just a gentle reminder for anyone who has OCD and considering to buy Tudor, be very careful and goodluck☺️
Whenever I watch your videos, I hear echos of questions that I’ve previously asked. Yeah, it’s probably star-of-my-own-show syndrome, but I really appreciated your thoughts on Omega movements after asking if you thought their movements were a differentiator for them when comparing to Tudor. Really appreciate your thoughtfulness. Thank you.
I'm becoming a big fan and soaking up your videos- each one is well put together with such LOGICAL conclusions. This whole watch game is strange in that there's a tug of war between emotion and logic... these things are so expensive, with a simple job, but they do it with very complex ingredients, but we want that complexity to be elegant and simple, but not too simple haha. We like what we like, want what we want, then often find "reasons" what we like or want is "better" or "worth it". It's almost silly if you think to hard about it. I really enjoy the way your perspectives take into account some of these intangible while also sticking to logical, subjective, analytical conclusions. Thank you and please keep feeding us more :-)
Tudor's quality control is a disgrace and the reason I passed on a BB to get a Longines Zulu Time. But the truth is that questionable QC is rife in the industry, even for Swiss watches. Just yesterday I noticed indices out of alignment on Tag watches in a shop window of a local jeweller. Even my Carrera has a slightly misaligned date window and 2-3 indices that look a little off, especially under a loupe. I have also noticed issues with Grand Seiko's in boutiques. This is the main reason to avoid buying watches online, especially expensive ones. You can always send them back for 'repair' if something is wrong/off, but it's a time consuming process that often involves twisting the hands of AD's who play dumb. e.g. 'Oh it's just the light in the store', 'It's the crystal reflection', 'It could be an optical illusion' etc. When the Aqua Terra I ordered finally arrives in store, I will be taking a loupe with me and won't pay the balance if it doesn't look right.
I agree with most of what you said,, especially with you what you said about Rolex and Omega. 100% agree. Regarding Sellita - I would love to see a METAS movement, but i don't care at all about power service. I also think that the step from ETA to sacrifice frequency and introduce plastic components for power reserve was a big mistake!
I love the design language of Breguet. You're absolutely correct that Swatch has neglected them, along with Blancpain and Glashutte Original. Swatch apparently doesn't like their own high-end offerings. However, as you suggest, I wouldn't want them to suddenly lean too hard into marketing, as us conservative contrarians like the lower volume, easier obtainability, standing out from the crowd without drawing needless attention.
This video was the right one to talk about Franck Muller. A brand once well known and today no one talks about it. I personally like it but understand why brand feels really expensive.
Wish I could talk about Franck Muller but I've never had hands on with any of them. Seen them in displays. Don't like them that much, but just don't have enough of a connection to feel I have anything to say about them 😊😊
I left a similar comment under one of your older videos, but thought I will add here in case you can respond.. As you focus a lot on value proposition in watches and their depreciation being one of the factors, why would you not look for better value in second hand watches? It’s like with cars… Would I rather buy 2 year Porsche or a new Mercedes? As far as the watch goes, the fact of it being second hand should matter even less (I would think).
Great video as always, thank you. The area for improvement that I would personally like to see is mid-tier brands like CW and Monta switching to true GMT movements - is the one thing that’s stopping me from pulling the trigger on some fantastic looking watches
Mike these last two vids are starting a new trend and are as always excellent. I like the movement topic as well. When we look at all the restraints involved behind the scenes that a company has before putting a watch to market: I.e. price or shareholders the smaller private or family run companies like Oris etc have interested me. Regards, Chris
Thanks Chris - Happy as always that my videos continue to resonate with you and that you see a progression in them. I am trying to improve every time 😊😊
Even in the Sellita case there's an argument that the swatch group has a more compelling offering in the sub 2k price range (some can get close to some Longines but most of them sit in that category). The powermatic 80 might possess a lower beat rate but boast a higher power reserve and to some extent better accuracy thanks in part to the free sprung architecture (even with the lower beat rate) and the factory calibration. These things make for a more practical wearing experience, even when it comes to GMT offerings the the powermatic's version is now a traveller GMT (for people that prefer that style). Furthermore, the quibbles with the movements also apply to Seiko.
12 hours is roughly how long it took me to take my brand new Seiko Presage back to the AD and demand a service. Bought the watch on Friday evening and took it back to the store on Saturday morning. It took over a month to get fixed and returned to me. But I paid a lot less than you. Still enough to drive me away from the brand.
Thank you for another great video, Sir! I agree on all your points, with one addition regarding the Rolex bracelets: The Jubilee bracelets should be made better fitting the case and the Datejust should get bracelets with the Oyterlock safety clasp. Compare the current Datejust with the current Tudor Black Bay 36 and you can see what I mean.
What needs to change are brand’s opinions of themselves and remembering what the buyer’s experience is and how to treat customers. Heavy is the wrist that wears the crown.
I thought you were going to say something about Omega’s wild array of offerings. I saw a previous (very educating) video of yours where you pointed out very eloquently how well Rolex was conducting its upgrades (to higher quality metals) and omega was simply all over the place. Reminded me of how Steve Jobs came back to apple and thrashed most offerings the brand had to offer. Still enjoyed the video, the channel and your whole journey. Keep it up!
True about Omega. If there's a brand that has every conceivable model and variant in their line up it's Omega. It's definitely something I think they should address as well. cheers 👌😊😊
Thanks for another great video Mike. I have been thinking of getting a Tudor at some point, probably second hand, so it is concerning to find out the have QC problems, I assume for this reason that you would always recommend buying under circumstances where you can inspect the watch? Agree with you on IWC, the climb in price between entry and the rest of the range is steep, a shame as their chronograph pilot is a thing of beauty. I so agree with you about Sellita, it would be nice if they developed a true (travel) GMT… that would be a game changer, assuming they created it at volume..!
In generaly I wouldn't worry too much about Tudor. Just pay attention at the store. Look at it in detail and get the movement running. Most of the problems are spottable to the naked eye. A little bit of a critical look will weed out the ones you shouldn't buy 😊
Completely agree with Sellita. Oris can do it, then no excuse for SW movements; power reserve, magnetic resistance are becoming differentiators for me.
I agree with all except two, the Rolex argument and the Omega argument. Rolex’s whole vibe is being a firm-fisted brand and a quick release system would make them appear otherwise. Omega’s movement are so far ahead of its competitors’ offerings that 55hr power reserve is definitely acceptable. Great analysis, as usual.
Omega will never top Rolex. You guys really need to make peace with that and to make Matters worse Omega use parts made in China 🇨🇳 that's right the lame Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years. Unlike Rolex that's 100p Swiss made
Fair enough. As for Rolex - True. They'll never do it, but I wish they would. Omega - Yeah. I would prefer it to be thinner and also get some more hours even though 55 is more than enough. It's an arms race in some ways that I feel they are losing even though it's not necessarily any real benefit to a lot of watch owners 😊
Great Show. I'm learning a lot here. By the way I'm portuguese and after some days in Switzerland ( a country I didn't know well), I came to the Algarve coast for the same reasons as you. What you told is very true, there's plenty of replicas out there, some very cornish, and when you look attentively to the people who wear them you perceive the anacronic signs. There's people who are Noveau Riche and use the real thing, no it's not that it's the overall sensation of fake they transmit. Cheers Mike. Thanks.
I think you nailed a great many of those points on the head! Well said. Breitling could also stand to tone down their high polish on every model that doesn't have a DLC coating. Breguet, there is definitely a market for their vintage offerings just look at the sheer numbers of homages to their classic chronos. I'd also argue that Breguet and Breitling could hire a RUclipsr with their ear to the enthusiast market to drive design, function etc., I mean who do you think really created the demand for Tudor in the U.S.?
I saw a few Marathon GSARs at Wind Up. I picked one up, loved the size and design, but fiddled with the bezel and called over the sales clerk, saying “the bezel isn’t on correctly, look”, and demonstrating that it wasn’t properly seated, and wobbled. She took the watch, and said something to agree, and went on to another customer. I tried another, and it had the exact same bezel problem.
What's popular isn't always good. What's good isn't always popular. Watches should be judged on how well they are built. Not on how they sell and are marketed.
My friend's premium Casio has superior build quality and a better bracelet than Swiss watches that are 2 to 3 times the price, if not more, but most see the brand and automatically dismiss it. People in the know know!
@@lamentate07 I was just going to comment the same thing. Casio makes amazing watches by the million. But at the end of the day, they are Casio and are looked down on. Shame, really, as they do make excellent movements. My Douro is the cheapest watch in my collection but gets more wrist time than anything else. Good looks, accurate, and if it falls off my wrist I'll BOAF (Bust Out Another Fifty).
Your final point was your highest impact comment and should have been first. Selita controls the value of in-house movements. If they stagnate and all the movement innovation is in-house, premiums rise. If they innovate, then in-house movements are an inconvenience because they cost more to service. And if Solita innovates, microbrands can flourish and luxury brands will lose a bit of pricing power.
I think of it this way. Tesla are not the most expensive car maker in the world but especially on software and UI, they have pushed every single other manufacturer to improve their UIs (also a productions processes and a whole lot else) - but the UI / UX / integration was at the time the best in the business and Merc, BMW and all the others have been playing catch up. Sellita, Soprod, etc CAN push the high end to innovate. I am certain of it 😊
Fully agree on your point with the Omega. Now, Tudor's movement also has METAS certification with longer power reserve and higher beat rate and in the thinner case size. The great movement should be reflected on the spec. Not just saying that it's great but the spec is behind the competition.
Very good. Proceed with some caution, before handing over one's hard-earned thousands. Fortunately my Tudor does not appear to have any QC issues, but then again, I don't inspect things with a loupe (and it seems to be running within spec - however, I'd love to put it on a timegrapher before the warranty expires). Not yet bought an Omega, but am now somewhat put-off regarding the 8800 calibre SMP I am flirting with, contrary to the received wisdom.
Thank you for a very interesting channel! In my view what differentiates you from other reviewers is your perspective on watchnaking as an industry, for example, when you talk from a product management or marketing perspective. I wonder if you would be interest in exploring that angle more, talk about economics of watchmaking, production, distribution, service, impact of secondary market, economics of Ads etc.
Quite related to the wish that Breitling should simplify, is that I hope that they bring back the Colt. Almost a decade ago, I bought a second hand quartz Colt and it was my first ever Swiss watch. Stopped wearing as its lume was vanishing (it was an old model and still using the old type of lume). If the Colt returns to the market, I'd definitely get a mechanical version of it
I like your videos! I really liked your treatment of the field watches. Seiko makes a good one too called the Alpinist. Their inspiration was very good at least. :) I’d put it just under the some of the higher Hamilton Khaki watches. I personally moved from a Rolex Explorer 2 ( old red GMT hand model ) with black dial to a higher end Hamilton Khaki Date mechanical automatic. The Rolex just felt like a bit too much. And I was able to get a very good price for it so I sold it. Do sometimes miss some aspects about it but I’m pretty happy with the much cheaper watch I now have. That said my next watch will definitely be a higher end Swiss Chronometer. Best, Greg
I think your reviews deserve METAS certification. All accurate points. Especially Breguet. They need a little nudge is all. What I’m most astonished by is that Monta get a mention. To make a quibble over their watches is high regard indeed especially considering their company in this line up. I’m liking their new green noble GMT. Thank you enjoyable as always
Totally agree regarding Omega and Longines etc increasing the beat rates of their movements, which are essentially compromised to boost power reserve. I think higher beat rate (certainly with watch enthusiasts) is perceived as a much stronger measure of movement quality than power reserve. But maybe that isn't the case with the regular watch buyer... and that could be the problem. However this is no longer acceptable, now that ETA-cloned PT5000 4 HZ beat rate movements are being fitted to Chinese-made watches costing as little as £90!
Selita is a great choice, I don’t particularly care that my watch has an in-house movement, I care that it’s got a good movement and has 70 hour power reserve. That said I assume this is because company’s are spec ing there watches with these movements, I’m sure Selita can produce something more contemporary. I don’t think it’s fair to blame Richard Mille for fakes, China steals everyone’s IP and the US government can’t stop it. What chance does a little watch firm have. For me the most important thing to change is that every bracelet should have on the fly adjustment.
Fair enough on Richard Mille - Probably for me it's a commentary on the industries general acceptance of copies. In the luxury industry there is significantly more pressure to apply sanctions, limit imports etc but less so with watches. I wish they would do something - IT may be a wasted effort but I think it's relevant 😊
Fantastic video as always. The brand that really kills me though is Breguet. Incredible watches, storied history, the type XX is all style, and they are still the most poorly run brand within Swatch. They need an overhaul, stat.
My daily watch has an SW200 movement. I am fine with it in its current iteration. That is primarily because my watch was $1,500 , for 2k or more watches I would expect an upgrade to that movement.
Please please pledge do an episode on what Grand Seiko needs to fix. My take: * Bracelets - improve quality and quick release * Mid size chronograph in a 40mm case * rationalise models * clear model strategy * chrono pusher size. I love GS and have 3 but so many of their watches are misses.
Dear Mike I agree with you absolutely. You are brave and daring unlike others in the watches scene. Adding Sellita to the addressed issue, made this episode very comprehensive. Many thanks. With huge appreciation Nizar
Kind of you - My goals is just to share perspectives with a touch of critique. Don't want to be negative but just pretending everything is fabulous is not me 😊
The 11-th problem for me and for many others with these brands is very simple… that those are not Rolex Submariner! And for Rolex the big problem is the attitude of the salesmans from their shops. P.S.: I like very much many of your reviews!
I wish Grand Seiko had strap offerings on some of their collections. I have a SBGA413 shunbun. I’ve had it on strap after 5 minutes of owning it. Everyone else I know who has one also wears it on strap. It’s a shame to pay full price and have so many people dislike the clunky, lack of taper on a watch that’s considered elegant. Same issue and design as the Speedmaster 1861 before the bracelet update on the 3861.
I agree with sellita increasing the power reserve. Citizen movement maker LJP has been showing up with a 60hr power reserve. I have heard people claim that some of seiko’s recent accuracy issues are tied in part to their new 70hr PR. So I wonder if sellita is going slow to avoid a similar issue.
For me, Rolex could fix a proper big date in exchange for the cyclops. Alternatively they could fix the options, by offering every dial, bezel and bracelet variant as no date version, as well.
Rolex bracelets fit perfectly with the cases and the tolerances are reduced to a minimum, which really gives a high quality impression. I had a Christopher Ward with a quick release bracelet and it made the endlinks really loose.
1. Breitling. 100% agree. I have. 1995 ETA derived Shark. So much better than the present monstrosities. Too big, too brash. Wouldn’t touch one. Please simplify 2. Breguet. Agree, dangerously low profile although if I could afford it I think a beautiful guilloche dial steel-case simple classique on a leather strap would be way more stylish than an AP or PP.
my MN doesn't have vertical play in the bezel, btw. I like the zuludiver nato's, but not sure i'd swap my president out for it. everything else spot on as usual
The same can be said for JLC, what you said about IWC. The significant multiple price increases for the same watch with Zero upgrades over the years makes buying a brand new watch senseless & unwise. Plus, it's far cheaper on the secondary market, so it isn't helping the case of justifying price increase either. No matter how complex their watches are, if they don't make profit as a brand, they will end up like Breguet.
Actually, the the power reserve of Omega 3861 caliber clocks in at around 64 hours, give or take, without the chronograph function running. This is still 8 hours short from a 72-hour PR but it’s certainly much closer than the specs on paper suggest.
I couldn’t agree more with you in regards to the power reserve of Selita movements while they have improved the power reserve they have nowhere near improved as much as it has with their internal movements. They supply to their own brands. Case in point is the ETA 28 24-2 that runs fine as a Powermatic 80 with 80 hours of power reserve.
I totally agree with most of your points, but I'm surprised that you didn't mention JLC (although you had a dedicated segment on it). I believe that JLC would thrive as an independent, and in the current market conditions, the huge consolidation under public companies or PE firms might start to unravel. Patrick Pruniaux had the balls to do it with Ulysse Nardin and Girrard Peregaux. On other topics, I disagree that Omega needs 4Hz movements - the co-axial escapement and the entire gear train are optimized for 3.5, offering the best compromise between wear, reliability, and performance. Frequency is not the best indicator of accuracy, as can be demonstrated by large pendulum clocks that run at 1hz or 3600 bph. Fun fact: lots of high-end indies opt for even lower beat rates. It's done on purpose for a distinctive (louder) ticking sound and an almost haptic effect for the wearer.
As a guy who can easily afford AP, I still avoid the royal oak. It’s just not for me. I wish they’d put more resources into the code 11.59. Lots of potential there, same with Breguet. Love the traditional 7097, though.
I have had no issues with the Tudors I possess, I will say I am becoming disillusioned with them as they become more like Rolex. Rolex the problem is simple availability, even the Rolex detractors only really complain about the lack of availability and the clientele more than the watches. Omega, I get what you're saying but I'm in a bit of a honeymoon period with Omega, I finally jumped with the Aqua Terra Titanium Worldtimer and to be honest it even better than I imagined (been looking at the WT for at least 4 years and the Ti version finally made me bite). I do agree it would be great if the movements could be slimmed down somehow. Breitling, to me they are the Navitimer, I really don't desire any other model from them because of what you pointed out. AP, hip hop marketing in the holy trinity space, it's what they've become although I have always liked the 15400 iteration of the Royal Oak. I'm going to mention Breguet out of line with the video here because I agree with you, Swatch is letting Breguet die, which is a shame. I think they should ready themselves to take over from AP because trends (especially hip hop marketing) die or move elsewhere and they could capitalize with portraying themselves better to that demographic with their history and cache in watchmaking innovations. Monta reminds me of Citizen, with everything oversized, I know they use quality parts for their watches but they don't come across that way in design. IWC, a bit stodgy and pricey, the case size is also out of date. Richard Mille, celebrity and F1 drivers watch... if you're neither, I think fake whether it is or not, you are spot on. It's also WAY TOO flashy for me. Selitta I haven't really any complaint about but I understand your point, competition always improves the marketplace.
A guy working behind a cash register at an office cantina I went to wore a Submariner. I complimented his watch (it was my honest reaction after spotting it) and he became visibly embarrassed. It was a moment too late that I realized he was wearing a replica, of course, and that I should have kept my mouth shut.
@@kresimirpleic Why should you have kept your mouth shut? You can't control the reaction of other people in any way. The guy might have actually learned something.
Compare 2000s IWC with Tudor and you can see where the price gap comes from. It’s more blurred now because modern IWC lacks the stark design with high-end movement combination that made it so strong back then. Today, they’re often akin to overpriced fashion watches. I’d keep the pricing but bring the GST from the 2000s back, including the edgy and bone dry marketing the Swiss used to be so brilliant at, and expand the Ingenieur into chronos.
$5,000+ is a good chunk of change. I would expect QC and service to be top tier. What else can I get for $5,000 (each) , plenty. An amazing vacation, a new chiropractic roller table, an exemplary firearm, a decent used motorcycle, higher end home safe, 5 ounces of platinum, etc.
Rolex perfected the wallet quick release system.
Hahaa
😂😂😂
🤣👏
Excellent
Yes sir, you’ve made my day. Took me a second.
This is rapidly becoming my favorite watch channel alongside ID Guy 💯
Pleasant company - I'm a big fan of my fellow South African 😊
You are hands-down the most educated watch guy on RUclips 👍🏾👍🏾
get a grip
Agreed. Super insightful!
I'm a big fan of this channel and one of the early subscribers. But that would be Tim Mosso, and and it isn't close. And this is with all due reapect to everyone else, especially Mike who is up there with the best.
@@kresimirpleic No idea who that is. What I can tell you is that Mike certainly has a lot of insight and passion for the industry and I wish him all the best with his channel and personal collecting journey!
@@johanvandersandt8904 Tim Mosso has all the knowledge to make this or any type of watch content (manufacturing, history, markets...), but he mostly reviews high end watches. He has an unparalleled acces to the best watches in the world. He also does watch talks with collectors as well as online fans when he will basically solo a podcast because that guy doesn't need notes. He shoots facts seemingly from a machine gun, no waffle or yapping like some youtubers (not Mike), just straight up pure concentraded information. His understanding of movements and what goes into making a high end watch is... you'll see for yourself. He works for the 1916 company (formerly known as Watchbox). The company has two RUclips channels - one is review based and the other is talk based.
This is another excellent video, Mike. I like how your content feels like a conversation between enthusiasts, and unlike other creators, I never feel like you're trying to sell me a watch. A lot of the time, I think it's simply their enthusiasm that makes it feel that way, but your content generally addresses watches and companies in the context of the industry with a nice, calm and rational enthusiasm. As always, it's very appreciated!
You hit the nail on the head with all of them. I will add that the Omega Aquaterra bracelet has kept me from buying it on several occasions.
Rolex has perfected the wallet release system.
Thanks - I'm happy to know that my approach is being received in the way intended. I aspire to invite conversation and to add a different perspective. I don't profess to be "right". I just want to do something interesting and make something worth watching 😊
So glad you brought up Tudors QC issues. It's something I've dealt with personally with my BB54 (lume pip) and Pelly 39 (poor hand finishing and lume). These things are brought up all the time in the forums, yet never mentioned on RUclips. Glad you did. I've let my Tudors go for these reasons.
What’s the Pelly 39 issue?
@@JensPeterLiljegren Attorcious lume and visibly roughly cut hands that looked like they were cut with a pair of scissors. Also I swear it had visible dust inside. It wasn't such an obvious issue like the lume pip, but it felt like a slap on the face for such an expensive watch. I've since let both Tudors go. I may consider an FXD in the future, if I can get it used for a decent price.
@@cheesychester9647 Thanks for replying. I wear a Pelly 39 as my daily beater and have had a far better quality experience than you. I totally get your disappointment and criticism of Tudor. In this price range flawed hands and dust are unacceptable when purchasing a new watch. Hope you’ll find a satisfying used FXD!
Was actually a difficult decision. I prefer not to say something that isn't clearly substantiated but my own experiences, hearsay from acquaintences and a lot of online chatter led me to conclude that it was a reasonable criticism to bring up 😊
Yeah I completely agree. Had to let my BB58 go after an exchange because both models had so much dust under the crystal. Pelagos 39 had sandy-feeling bezel and scratch on the seconds hand. Had to search thru 4 models of the BB54 to find one where the bezel pip and logo were both centered, and then low and behold: in my car yesterday in the sunlight I saw that the hour hand is very roughly cut out, you can see extra metal sticking off the side. So out of 7 Tudor watches, all 7 have had some kind of QC issue. Crazy. Love their products, but they need to tidy up
I absolutely agree with the quick release for the Rolex models mentioned. Recently, one thing that has become my "strong repellent" from the models I want is bracelet/clasp size micro adjustment. I don't want to use aftermarket bracelets or some addons just to fully enjoy the watch piece I want.
If microbrands can do it for a fraction of the price, then the same is expected from bigger brands. I am definitely a bracelet guy, and in the summer season, I very often need to micro-adjust the clasp. If that is something I cannot do without the tools and properly fit my watch, that is a big turnoff.
I went so far that I refuse to buy the desired pieces until they sort that out. :)
Except that I am a sucker for diver watches. The majority of my collection consists of divers, and what I crave more about is the red bezel models.
P.S. Great video, as always! 🔥
Fully agree. Microadjusment clasp is a must. I would not buy a watch on a bracelet without it. Never.
Absolutely agree!
A monta bracelet is on par with a Rolex in my opinion. A Fears dial is comparable with an Omega dial in some cases. Cheaper brands do push more expensive brands to stay on their toes. That's my contention at least .
Cheers 😊
Great points! I agree with all of them. Highlights for we were
"An Acqua Terra needs to be maxium 12.5mm". Absolut truth.
Iwc pricing. I cannot accept a stainless steel, 3 handed, printed dial, non-color-matched date wheel, non-orginal design watch for 6k???? If I wanted a fleiger why not buy a Laco or Stowa that has the same heritage with thay design.
or Sinn or Damasko
I'm a bit late to the video, but isn't the Aqua Terra 38mm 12.2 mm thick already?
Spot on with Omega. I really want to by a Seamaster 300, but at 13.9 mm for a no date watch, it's sort of a dealbreaker for me. I get that the coaxial movement requires more space, but if Rolex can make a Daytona 11.9 mm, then Omega should be able to get the 300 down to 12.9 mm.
omega also needs to stop making 45 limited editions every year, if everyone's super, no one is.
Funny comment, as I don't recall any Omega limited edition in the latest years. Several halo models with limited availability (nothing unique to Omega), but no limited editions per se. Yet people complains about Omega's LE like it was 2010 and nobody rises an eye when Seiko/Grand Seiko just churns out LE after LE, often with ridiculous numbers...
How dumb is it to complain that a company gives you more options...
@@brafya The catalog is over saturated and Omega's marketing is straight up embarrassing. Zoe Kravitz seriously LOL. That's the crap Omega is all about now. They are turning into a fashion brand. That's the vibe they give off
Agree! Just browsed the catalog. All BS releases, nothing that would make you a proud Omega owner anymore.
@@brafya omega have lots of good watches but only one that everyone fights over. Speedy moon obviously. Amazing how hype brainwasheds most people.
As Portuguese, glad you came here for your vacations - the whether this year was not great, but this was somehow a different year even for us that live in Portugal :)
One thing that is missing in Portugal is a secondary market that delivers to their costumers a way to buy vintage watches reliably.
All valid points about Omega, but those changes will just push their prices higher and thus further out of reach for most of us. That's why I finally pulled the trigger on an Aqua Terra. I'm too price sensitive to absorb further increases, which I guess makes me an undesirable customer for them, but even a sales associate at an Omega boutique recently told me he thinks their watches are getting too expensive and isn't pleased about it.
Probably - but I also see them falling behind in terms of specs if they don't do it 😊
Agree with most of it. I suggest you take pilot training before you talk about Breitling dials. This one small step will clear the fog and allow you to see the light. Agree with your comment on Stellita. I have a 200, it’s in a small brand Swiss made. My goal is to collect watches with various movements to compare and nuance them. More power reserve is the next move for me. Your fake watch analogy was great. One positive about the fakes. If there are more fakes the thieves will eventually give up. They can’t find a real RM to steal. We need to do that with cars.
Using the smaller-sized E6B instead of the full-size is tough enough to nearly impossible to use in Texas summer air flying solo; that Breitling might be good on the ground... and if I were using a loupe
Like the point on the fakes - Hide the originals in plain sight. I remember seeing a video of some guy that was robbed at a restaurant and the thief came back with the watch when he realised it was a fake. 😊
Well done sir! Astounding presentation of the beliefs of many watch enthusiasts. Thank you for your hard work and consistent excellent analysis.
Thanks for watching 😊
I have to say, I find your video insightful, educational and every-time I learn something new
Thank a ton for the feedback 😊
The criticism on Sellitata is spot on. While they do develop new movements and new features they really need to update their SW200 and SW300 workhorses every so often.
Nah they are fine. Sellita Manufacture AMT fills the gap at the higher end.
They do iterative changes on them, gear tooth profile, more and more complications added over time. Look at the number of SW200 variants there are now direct from Sellita compared to the original ETA 2824 group (Basically the 2824 date, 2834 "Rolex style" day and date, 2836 day date). Sellita now offers 18 variants (moonphase, power reserve, pointer date, small seconds at 6h or 9h etc...) and 3 skeletonization pattern options just for the SW200 family. And they've increased the PR of the SW300 to 50h minimum/56 typical, compared to the ETA 2892's 42. They've also added the SW600 movements to 56h minimum PR, though these are big movements (designed so that a brand can use the same case size for a time-only watch as the chronograph size case, similar to ETA Valgrange movements) and not seen too much yet, closest I can think of is a Sellita custom that seems to be a manual wind version of an SW660 used in the Raul Pages/Massena watch.
@@dimman77the ETA 2892-2 has 42 hours. But that is not the latest iteration ETA supplies to the likes of Longines and others. They are now above 64hours. Already. And going up.
I'm aware of AMT, but for Sellita to make a difference the entry offerings need to be upgraded. Just like Mercedes where the A class inevitably would inherit S class technology, the entry models need to take a step up 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Mike you need to look at Sellita's evolution from basic 2824 and 2892 replacements to what they are offering now, as I touched on briefly in the above post. They are working iteratively and continuously.
The other thing is it's not AMT trickling down to base Sellita, it's base Sellita trying to advance for AMT. As car analogies go it's more Toyota starting with their economy cars and eventually developing Lexus which is far more difficult than the reverse with the MB S to A class example.
I asked the lady in Mappin & Web to take oyster off my new 224270 (after first sizing it). She refused!
I only want to wear it on a single-pass seatbelt nato. Maybe occasionally on the bracelet over winter, when in long sleeves. It was a total pita to remove mysef. Incredibly, to fit a single layer of seatbelt nato through the springbar to case back, I had to bend the springbar to create a gap!! As you say, with Rolex, it's their way.. or sod off.
This, IDGuy, and Jeffrey McMahon - my favourite YT subscriptions 👍
Thank you for another informative and well thought out video. You’re definitely one of the top channels out there.
Very kind of you - thanks 😊
Excellent content as always. I can see how you added additional edits and pop up text to your video; which makes it even more professional and refined. Plus it drives your points home. Been watching your channel for a year or so now, and always love watching your new videos. Keep rolling out the content, perhaps a bracelet industry review in the future? 👀
All the best and keep at it! 🎉
Another solid episode. Poor Breguet! Ever thought duplicating your videos as podcasts as well? I often just listen to your videos in the car. You definitely have the smooth voice for it. Keep up the great work!
Cheers - Thanks !!! 😊Fingers crossed Breguet comes back at some point 😊
I love these videos, where we get educated about all kind of small details from around the industry.
Thank you 😊
Agree a 1000 times with the shoutout to Sellita. Then again, look at the customized AMT movements they just supplied for the new TAG Heuer Aquaracers.
Entertaining and insightful as always. Omega is the living example of the paradox of choice!
They very much are, yes 😊
A pleasure to listen to you. I am amazed at the depth of detail, brand knowledge and industry insight that you show. I am brilliant at what I do and am an expert. But I could never talk for a half an hour with passion and enthusiasm about it. A fast mind you have there, brotherman! Love your channel. Bravo
thanks - I'm just happy you enjoy my videos 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch besides hosting this channel, what if I may ask, is your position in the watch game, for you come across as a watchmaker, definitely as a broad spectrum enthusiast, a collector perhaps and you mention attending watch expos, and so I ask if you would share what it is that you 'do' in the world of watches. Yes I agree...fix the lume pip ✔️. Do you mind sharing the answer to my question on this forum?
Hi Mike, great video as usual!
I was the one who commented in your previous video, that got a Tudor BB54 with misaligned dial (between twelve hour marker and the shield logo, they are not aligned).
Just wanna update that you can claim the warranty for it, but they estimated it will take 4 - 6 months to order the dial and send it here to Indonesia. And funny thing is, they can’t guarantee that the new dial will be perfectly aligned as they show in the Tudor’s website, the 12 hour and the shield logo are also misaligned🤣
Just a gentle reminder for anyone who has OCD and considering to buy Tudor, be very careful and goodluck☺️
Whenever I watch your videos, I hear echos of questions that I’ve previously asked. Yeah, it’s probably star-of-my-own-show syndrome, but I really appreciated your thoughts on Omega movements after asking if you thought their movements were a differentiator for them when comparing to Tudor. Really appreciate your thoughtfulness.
Thank you.
Such a nice distinguished presentation. Thanks for the no hype or goofy faces so common on Utube.
Thanks. My wife thinks my face on this thumbnail is goofy, but thanks 😊😊😊
I'm becoming a big fan and soaking up your videos- each one is well put together with such LOGICAL conclusions. This whole watch game is strange in that there's a tug of war between emotion and logic... these things are so expensive, with a simple job, but they do it with very complex ingredients, but we want that complexity to be elegant and simple, but not too simple haha. We like what we like, want what we want, then often find "reasons" what we like or want is "better" or "worth it". It's almost silly if you think to hard about it. I really enjoy the way your perspectives take into account some of these intangible while also sticking to logical, subjective, analytical conclusions. Thank you and please keep feeding us more :-)
Will try my best not to disappoint 😊
Tudor's quality control is a disgrace and the reason I passed on a BB to get a Longines Zulu Time. But the truth is that questionable QC is rife in the industry, even for Swiss watches. Just yesterday I noticed indices out of alignment on Tag watches in a shop window of a local jeweller. Even my Carrera has a slightly misaligned date window and 2-3 indices that look a little off, especially under a loupe. I have also noticed issues with Grand Seiko's in boutiques.
This is the main reason to avoid buying watches online, especially expensive ones. You can always send them back for 'repair' if something is wrong/off, but it's a time consuming process that often involves twisting the hands of AD's who play dumb. e.g. 'Oh it's just the light in the store', 'It's the crystal reflection', 'It could be an optical illusion' etc.
When the Aqua Terra I ordered finally arrives in store, I will be taking a loupe with me and won't pay the balance if it doesn't look right.
I agree with most of what you said,, especially with you what you said about Rolex and Omega. 100% agree. Regarding Sellita - I would love to see a METAS movement, but i don't care at all about power service. I also think that the step from ETA to sacrifice frequency and introduce plastic components for power reserve was a big mistake!
I love the design language of Breguet. You're absolutely correct that Swatch has neglected them, along with Blancpain and Glashutte Original. Swatch apparently doesn't like their own high-end offerings. However, as you suggest, I wouldn't want them to suddenly lean too hard into marketing, as us conservative contrarians like the lower volume, easier obtainability, standing out from the crowd without drawing needless attention.
This video was the right one to talk about Franck Muller. A brand once well known and today no one talks about it. I personally like it but understand why brand feels really expensive.
Wish I could talk about Franck Muller but I've never had hands on with any of them. Seen them in displays. Don't like them that much, but just don't have enough of a connection to feel I have anything to say about them 😊😊
I left a similar comment under one of your older videos, but thought I will add here in case you can respond.. As you focus a lot on value proposition in watches and their depreciation being one of the factors, why would you not look for better value in second hand watches? It’s like with cars… Would I rather buy 2 year Porsche or a new Mercedes? As far as the watch goes, the fact of it being second hand should matter even less (I would think).
Great video as always, thank you. The area for improvement that I would personally like to see is mid-tier brands like CW and Monta switching to true GMT movements - is the one thing that’s stopping me from pulling the trigger on some fantastic looking watches
Mike these last two vids are starting a new trend and are as always excellent. I like the movement topic as well. When we look at all the restraints involved behind the scenes that a company has before putting a watch to market: I.e. price or shareholders the smaller private or family run companies like Oris etc have interested me.
Regards, Chris
Thanks Chris - Happy as always that my videos continue to resonate with you and that you see a progression in them. I am trying to improve every time 😊😊
Even in the Sellita case there's an argument that the swatch group has a more compelling offering in the sub 2k price range (some can get close to some Longines but most of them sit in that category). The powermatic 80 might possess a lower beat rate but boast a higher power reserve and to some extent better accuracy thanks in part to the free sprung architecture (even with the lower beat rate) and the factory calibration. These things make for a more practical wearing experience, even when it comes to GMT offerings the the powermatic's version is now a traveller GMT (for people that prefer that style). Furthermore, the quibbles with the movements also apply to Seiko.
Bought the new Tudor gmt. Died 12 hours in. Returned it at mayors after arguing that I didn’t want to send in a 2 day old watch
Yikes
As you should have!
That’s wild, I am now tuned off by the brand .
@@theWaltVegas they tried to talk me into servicing it too lol
12 hours is roughly how long it took me to take my brand new Seiko Presage back to the AD and demand a service. Bought the watch on Friday evening and took it back to the store on Saturday morning. It took over a month to get fixed and returned to me. But I paid a lot less than you. Still enough to drive me away from the brand.
Great comments, especially about Omega and Bright-bling !
Gotta tell you this has become 1 of my favorite channels👍😎Love the content and I really appreciate the insights🙏⌚️✌️
Thank you kindly, much appreciated 😊
such a great video as usual ......thank you for your time and efforts (to you and everyone helping you making this video possible)
Thank you for another great video, Sir! I agree on all your points, with one addition regarding the Rolex bracelets: The Jubilee bracelets should be made better fitting the case and the Datejust should get bracelets with the Oyterlock safety clasp. Compare the current Datejust with the current Tudor Black Bay 36 and you can see what I mean.
What needs to change are brand’s opinions of themselves and remembering what the buyer’s experience is and how to treat customers. Heavy is the wrist that wears the crown.
I thought you were going to say something about Omega’s wild array of offerings. I saw a previous (very educating) video of yours where you pointed out very eloquently how well Rolex was conducting its upgrades (to higher quality metals) and omega was simply all over the place. Reminded me of how Steve Jobs came back to apple and thrashed most offerings the brand had to offer. Still enjoyed the video, the channel and your whole journey. Keep it up!
True about Omega. If there's a brand that has every conceivable model and variant in their line up it's Omega. It's definitely something I think they should address as well.
cheers 👌😊😊
Love you channel and insights. Always so concise and accurate.
Thanks, cheers 😊
I love everything about your channel. Keep going.
Thank a ton 😊
Thanks for another great video Mike. I have been thinking of getting a Tudor at some point, probably second hand, so it is concerning to find out the have QC problems, I assume for this reason that you would always recommend buying under circumstances where you can inspect the watch? Agree with you on IWC, the climb in price between entry and the rest of the range is steep, a shame as their chronograph pilot is a thing of beauty. I so agree with you about Sellita, it would be nice if they developed a true (travel) GMT… that would be a game changer, assuming they created it at volume..!
In generaly I wouldn't worry too much about Tudor. Just pay attention at the store. Look at it in detail and get the movement running. Most of the problems are spottable to the naked eye. A little bit of a critical look will weed out the ones you shouldn't buy
😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Thanks Mike.
Agree on the thickness of the omegas, especially the aqua terra. They should make it much slimmer. Maybe offer a quartz again?
Completely agree with Sellita.
Oris can do it, then no excuse for SW movements; power reserve, magnetic resistance are becoming differentiators for me.
You should charge with big money all the brands for these great ideas. Nice video, as.always, thanks. Cheers from Argentina.
Cheers - Wish I could, but just telling people what they're doing wrong seldom earns you a lot of money 😊
I agree with all except two, the Rolex argument and the Omega argument. Rolex’s whole vibe is being a firm-fisted brand and a quick release system would make them appear otherwise. Omega’s movement are so far ahead of its competitors’ offerings that 55hr power reserve is definitely acceptable. Great analysis, as usual.
Omega movements are not better than Rolex movements.
Omega will never top Rolex. You guys really need to make peace with that and to make Matters worse Omega use parts made in China 🇨🇳 that's right the lame Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years. Unlike Rolex that's 100p Swiss made
Fair enough. As for Rolex - True. They'll never do it, but I wish they would.
Omega - Yeah. I would prefer it to be thinner and also get some more hours even though 55 is more than enough. It's an arms race in some ways that I feel they are losing even though it's not necessarily any real benefit to a lot of watch owners 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch love your content, brother. Keep at it.
Great Show. I'm learning a lot here.
By the way I'm portuguese and after some days in Switzerland ( a country I didn't know well), I came to the Algarve coast for the same reasons as you.
What you told is very true, there's plenty of replicas out there, some very cornish, and when you look attentively to the people who wear them you perceive the anacronic signs. There's people who are Noveau Riche and use the real thing, no it's not that it's the overall sensation of fake they transmit.
Cheers Mike. Thanks.
Interesting to hear that you had a similar experience about replicas and fakes in the algarve. Thanks for sharing 😊
Yes, indeed I had the same experience 😊
I think you nailed a great many of those points on the head! Well said. Breitling could also stand to tone down their high polish on every model that doesn't have a DLC coating. Breguet, there is definitely a market for their vintage offerings just look at the sheer numbers of homages to their classic chronos. I'd also argue that Breguet and Breitling could hire a RUclipsr with their ear to the enthusiast market to drive design, function etc., I mean who do you think really created the demand for Tudor in the U.S.?
I saw a few Marathon GSARs at Wind Up. I picked one up, loved the size and design, but fiddled with the bezel and called over the sales clerk, saying “the bezel isn’t on correctly, look”, and demonstrating that it wasn’t properly seated, and wobbled. She took the watch, and said something to agree, and went on to another customer. I tried another, and it had the exact same bezel problem.
What's popular isn't always good. What's good isn't always popular. Watches should be judged on how well they are built. Not on how they sell and are marketed.
Spoken like an enthusiast and not a sheep. Well said. Sadly it’s just not reality
Good perspective. Truer words...
My friend's premium Casio has superior build quality and a better bracelet than Swiss watches that are 2 to 3 times the price, if not more, but most see the brand and automatically dismiss it.
People in the know know!
@@lamentate07 I was just going to comment the same thing. Casio makes amazing watches by the million. But at the end of the day, they are Casio and are looked down on. Shame, really, as they do make excellent movements. My Douro is the cheapest watch in my collection but gets more wrist time than anything else. Good looks, accurate, and if it falls off my wrist I'll BOAF (Bust Out Another Fifty).
@@JF-lt5zc Exactly. My friend owns G-Shock MR-G b5000d-1, and it makes most Cartier watches look cheap by comparison.
Very much agree with what you said about Sellita
It's my perspective at least 😊
Your final point was your highest impact comment and should have been first. Selita controls the value of in-house movements. If they stagnate and all the movement innovation is in-house, premiums rise. If they innovate, then in-house movements are an inconvenience because they cost more to service. And if Solita innovates, microbrands can flourish and luxury brands will lose a bit of pricing power.
There is also Soprod, STP, laJouxPerret and others producing cloned and improved ETA replacements. It will happen - they will push each other.
I think of it this way. Tesla are not the most expensive car maker in the world but especially on software and UI, they have pushed every single other manufacturer to improve their UIs (also a productions processes and a whole lot else) - but the UI / UX / integration was at the time the best in the business and Merc, BMW and all the others have been playing catch up.
Sellita, Soprod, etc CAN push the high end to innovate. I am certain of it 😊
Fully agree on your point with the Omega.
Now, Tudor's movement also has METAS certification with longer power reserve and higher beat rate and in the thinner case size.
The great movement should be reflected on the spec. Not just saying that it's great but the spec is behind the competition.
Very good. Proceed with some caution, before handing over one's hard-earned thousands. Fortunately my Tudor does not appear to have any QC issues, but then again, I don't inspect things with a loupe (and it seems to be running within spec - however, I'd love to put it on a timegrapher before the warranty expires). Not yet bought an Omega, but am now somewhat put-off regarding the 8800 calibre SMP I am flirting with, contrary to the received wisdom.
Thank you for a very interesting channel! In my view what differentiates you from other reviewers is your perspective on watchnaking as an industry, for example, when you talk from a product management or marketing perspective.
I wonder if you would be interest in exploring that angle more, talk about economics of watchmaking, production, distribution, service, impact of secondary market, economics of Ads etc.
I like your set. Especially the CH445😎
Comfort and design in one package 😊😊
Great video, as always, sir! I think I'm gonna do this, but for film...
❤️
Quite related to the wish that Breitling should simplify, is that I hope that they bring back the Colt. Almost a decade ago, I bought a second hand quartz Colt and it was my first ever Swiss watch. Stopped wearing as its lume was vanishing (it was an old model and still using the old type of lume). If the Colt returns to the market, I'd definitely get a mechanical version of it
I like your videos! I really liked your treatment of the field watches.
Seiko makes a good one too called the Alpinist. Their inspiration was very good at least. :) I’d put it just under the some of the higher Hamilton Khaki watches.
I personally moved from a Rolex Explorer 2
( old red GMT hand model ) with black dial to a higher end Hamilton Khaki Date mechanical automatic. The Rolex just felt like a bit too much. And I was able to get a very good price for it so I sold it.
Do sometimes miss some aspects about it but I’m pretty happy with the much cheaper watch I now have. That said my next watch will definitely be a higher end Swiss Chronometer.
Best,
Greg
Cheers and thanks for sharing 😀😀
Excellent video as usual. Can't wait for the next one.
Unfortunately, it's going to be 1 week as usual 😂
I think your reviews deserve METAS certification.
All accurate points. Especially Breguet. They need a little nudge is all.
What I’m most astonished by is that Monta get a mention. To make a quibble over their watches is high regard indeed especially considering their company in this line up. I’m liking their new green noble GMT.
Thank you enjoyable as always
Lol 😂😂 Metas... 😂Thanks 😊
Totally agree regarding Omega and Longines etc increasing the beat rates of their movements, which are essentially compromised to boost power reserve. I think higher beat rate (certainly with watch enthusiasts) is perceived as a much stronger measure of movement quality than power reserve. But maybe that isn't the case with the regular watch buyer... and that could be the problem. However this is no longer acceptable, now that ETA-cloned PT5000 4 HZ beat rate movements are being fitted to Chinese-made watches costing as little as £90!
Selita is a great choice, I don’t particularly care that my watch has an in-house movement, I care that it’s got a good movement and has 70 hour power reserve. That said I assume this is because company’s are spec ing there watches with these movements, I’m sure Selita can produce something more contemporary.
I don’t think it’s fair to blame Richard Mille for fakes, China steals everyone’s IP and the US government can’t stop it. What chance does a little watch firm have.
For me the most important thing to change is that every bracelet should have on the fly adjustment.
Fair enough on Richard Mille - Probably for me it's a commentary on the industries general acceptance of copies. In the luxury industry there is significantly more pressure to apply sanctions, limit imports etc but less so with watches. I wish they would do something - IT may be a wasted effort but I think it's relevant 😊
Fantastic video as always. The brand that really kills me though is Breguet. Incredible watches, storied history, the type XX is all style, and they are still the most poorly run brand within Swatch. They need an overhaul, stat.
My daily watch has an SW200 movement. I am fine with it in its current iteration. That is primarily because my watch was $1,500 , for 2k or more watches I would expect an upgrade to that movement.
Another fantastic video. Thanks.
Cheers
I really enjoyed the buff guy who runs to slim down metaphor for the avenger 😂
you know the guy 😊
Please please pledge do an episode on what Grand Seiko needs to fix. My take:
* Bracelets - improve quality and quick release
* Mid size chronograph in a 40mm case
* rationalise models
* clear model strategy
* chrono pusher size.
I love GS and have 3 but so many of their watches are misses.
Always interesting content. Bravo 👏👏👏
Cheers 😊
Watched are getting too expensive
Getting? I think that boat has already sailed pal...
Agree regarding Rolex, Omega, Zenith ,etc .But there are some nice Micro brands : Farer, Tuseno, and others that are very nice for the money
@richardlocke7264 agree. My CW is fantastic and at around $1k after taxes
Microbrands are 1000% where it's at
Everything is getting too expensive. But luxury items are further exaggerated.
Dear Mike
I agree with you absolutely.
You are brave and daring unlike others in the watches scene. Adding Sellita to the addressed issue, made this episode very comprehensive. Many thanks.
With huge appreciation
Nizar
Kind of you - My goals is just to share perspectives with a touch of critique. Don't want to be negative but just pretending everything is fabulous is not me 😊
The 11-th problem for me and for many others with these brands is very simple… that those are not Rolex Submariner!
And for Rolex the big problem is the attitude of the salesmans from their shops.
P.S.: I like very much many of your reviews!
Brilliant video, as always.
❤️❤️
The only thing these watch brands need to fix is their insane prices.
How else could someone display how much better than you they are though
@@MKYTaddict Welcome to luxury
never going to happen.... 😂😂
I wish Grand Seiko had strap offerings on some of their collections. I have a SBGA413 shunbun. I’ve had it on strap after 5 minutes of owning it. Everyone else I know who has one also wears it on strap. It’s a shame to pay full price and have so many people dislike the clunky, lack of taper on a watch that’s considered elegant. Same issue and design as the Speedmaster 1861 before the bracelet update on the 3861.
I agree with sellita increasing the power reserve. Citizen movement maker LJP has been showing up with a 60hr power reserve. I have heard people claim that some of seiko’s recent accuracy issues are tied in part to their new 70hr PR. So I wonder if sellita is going slow to avoid a similar issue.
For me, Rolex could fix a proper big date in exchange for the cyclops.
Alternatively they could fix the options, by offering every dial, bezel and bracelet variant as no date version, as well.
Rolex bracelets fit perfectly with the cases and the tolerances are reduced to a minimum, which really gives a high quality impression. I had a Christopher Ward with a quick release bracelet and it made the endlinks really loose.
1. Breitling. 100% agree. I have. 1995 ETA derived Shark. So much better than the present monstrosities. Too big, too brash. Wouldn’t touch one. Please simplify
2. Breguet. Agree, dangerously low profile although if I could afford it I think a beautiful guilloche dial steel-case simple classique on a leather strap would be way more stylish than an AP or PP.
my MN doesn't have vertical play in the bezel, btw. I like the zuludiver nato's, but not sure i'd swap my president out for it. everything else spot on as usual
Lucky for you. It's not the case with everybody 😊
The same can be said for JLC, what you said about IWC. The significant multiple price increases for the same watch with Zero upgrades over the years makes buying a brand new watch senseless & unwise. Plus, it's far cheaper on the secondary market, so it isn't helping the case of justifying price increase either.
No matter how complex their watches are, if they don't make profit as a brand, they will end up like Breguet.
Love your content. Great stuff.
😊😊😊😊😊
Actually, the the power reserve of Omega 3861 caliber clocks in at around 64 hours, give or take, without the chronograph function running. This is still 8 hours short from a 72-hour PR but it’s certainly much closer than the specs on paper suggest.
Rolex isn’t immune from QC issues either as evidenced by the misaligned bezel on my GMT Master II…
True 😊
Is that an Iron Heart shirt?! Upping your style game!
Correct 😊😊
Question have you heard of a company called Gavox?? Im curious about the multi complication in a quartz watch the owner touts. Thanks. You are the man
I couldn’t agree more with you in regards to the power reserve of Selita movements while they have improved the power reserve they have nowhere near improved as much as it has with their internal movements. They supply to their own brands. Case in point is the ETA 28 24-2 that runs fine as a Powermatic 80 with 80 hours of power reserve.
I totally agree with most of your points, but I'm surprised that you didn't mention JLC (although you had a dedicated segment on it). I believe that JLC would thrive as an independent, and in the current market conditions, the huge consolidation under public companies or PE firms might start to unravel. Patrick Pruniaux had the balls to do it with Ulysse Nardin and Girrard Peregaux. On other topics, I disagree that Omega needs 4Hz movements - the co-axial escapement and the entire gear train are optimized for 3.5, offering the best compromise between wear, reliability, and performance. Frequency is not the best indicator of accuracy, as can be demonstrated by large pendulum clocks that run at 1hz or 3600 bph. Fun fact: lots of high-end indies opt for even lower beat rates. It's done on purpose for a distinctive (louder) ticking sound and an almost haptic effect for the wearer.
Regarding the IWC, if it is priced to “fly off the shelves” it’s priced too low
Fair perspective - I'm not necessarily locked into the idea that everything has to be exclusive and desirable to be profitable 😊
Great content 😊
Thanks for the visit 😊😊
The endurance pro is actually a good seller for Breitling.
Not unsurprising 😊
As a guy who can easily afford AP, I still avoid the royal oak. It’s just not for me. I wish they’d put more resources into the code 11.59. Lots of potential there, same with Breguet. Love the traditional 7097, though.
I have had no issues with the Tudors I possess, I will say I am becoming disillusioned with them as they become more like Rolex. Rolex the problem is simple availability, even the Rolex detractors only really complain about the lack of availability and the clientele more than the watches. Omega, I get what you're saying but I'm in a bit of a honeymoon period with Omega, I finally jumped with the Aqua Terra Titanium Worldtimer and to be honest it even better than I imagined (been looking at the WT for at least 4 years and the Ti version finally made me bite). I do agree it would be great if the movements could be slimmed down somehow. Breitling, to me they are the Navitimer, I really don't desire any other model from them because of what you pointed out. AP, hip hop marketing in the holy trinity space, it's what they've become although I have always liked the 15400 iteration of the Royal Oak. I'm going to mention Breguet out of line with the video here because I agree with you, Swatch is letting Breguet die, which is a shame. I think they should ready themselves to take over from AP because trends (especially hip hop marketing) die or move elsewhere and they could capitalize with portraying themselves better to that demographic with their history and cache in watchmaking innovations. Monta reminds me of Citizen, with everything oversized, I know they use quality parts for their watches but they don't come across that way in design. IWC, a bit stodgy and pricey, the case size is also out of date. Richard Mille, celebrity and F1 drivers watch... if you're neither, I think fake whether it is or not, you are spot on. It's also WAY TOO flashy for me. Selitta I haven't really any complaint about but I understand your point, competition always improves the marketplace.
I went out for dinner the other night and the doorman was wearing a Richard Mille RM 011 Black Phantom limited edition flyback chronograph 🤔
Doorman tips are up these days 😂
A guy working behind a cash register at an office cantina I went to wore a Submariner. I complimented his watch (it was my honest reaction after spotting it) and he became visibly embarrassed. It was a moment too late that I realized he was wearing a replica, of course, and that I should have kept my mouth shut.
Tips must be good
@@gm5216😂😂😂
@@kresimirpleic Why should you have kept your mouth shut? You can't control the reaction of other people in any way. The guy might have actually learned something.
Excellent video. The new omega Seamaster will be interesting. Maybe a 40mm…?! And I have a deposit on a white speedy….or shall I wait…. 🤪
40mm, no date Seamaster? I'm very much interested.... 😂😂😂
Compare 2000s IWC with Tudor and you can see where the price gap comes from. It’s more blurred now because modern IWC lacks the stark design with high-end movement combination that made it so strong back then. Today, they’re often akin to overpriced fashion watches.
I’d keep the pricing but bring the GST from the 2000s back, including the edgy and bone dry marketing the Swiss used to be so brilliant at, and expand the Ingenieur into chronos.