This is a Richemont issue. They’ve now set prices for their brands in what could only be charitably called “optimistic”. Even if the watch bubble hadn’t burst, there was no way IWC, Panerai, JLC etc could command the premiums that have been asked over the past for years
I recently tried this on, along with a GP Laureato and for kicks, a Moser Pioneer. Laureato > Ingeniuer for a way better bracelet, display case back, general fit/finish/comfort. But, I was like YOLO so for a bit more, got the Moser + steel bracelet. Over-budget, but now I have a grail watch that’s night & day better.
Just want to focus on the Ingenieur vs Laureato debate. Before going, I was more excited about the IWC, but unimpressed with the flat, very meh case shape. The Laureato case shape is vastly superior, and the bracelet is probably the most buttery comfortable I’ve ever tried on. If I had a hard budget, I would have gone Laureato, it’s just a vastly superior watch. The IWC would be a no-brainer at $7k, though.
I have huge problems with this hot garbage. Nomos has the alpha caliber. They haven't developed it, it's an eta 7001 but at least Nomos produces watches with alpha calibers 95% inside Glashutte. Cartier Santos movement is a Piaget but priced well and exclusive enough to be considered in-house. Tudor and channel own Kanissi and I consider their watches in-house. Hermes has developed their movements and they on part of the vacher so good value. This garbage no one knows what's going on inside. The movement I'm 100% sure is the same movement featured in Baume et Mercier Baumatic Riviera and is developed and produced entirely by Richmond in Val Flurier. There's no way the case and bracelet of Mark xx is 2k more expensive than Baume et Mercier or this one 8k better than that with the same movement. I would pick a nomos Mertro 33, Damasko DS30, and a Tudor and still have 4k in my pocket. With spending 2k more a Cartier Santos will be added to. How is IWC going to convince people to not buy any good 4 watches and instead purchase this? IDK
@@roubenkhosrovian well said. But as this video shows, there is a sucker born every minute. I guess IWC thinks that just the word "Genta" does them let go away with the extra 8K in comparison to the Baume & Mercier Baumatic Riviera, with supposed identical movement and very similar design.
Is the IWC ingenieur worth 12K? Surely, not. In a normal market, it would be 6.5K on tops. However the last 5 years were crazy for the watch industry, since people got interested in Swiss mechanical watches and instagram ostentation. The abusive prices have been kept by US and China customers. However, recent data shows that the interest has decreased. The market should retracted in 15% this year. The question is: will the Swiss industry adjust the prices or maintain the same price policy? They can agree to reach for the super rich customers and produce less pieces for high prices. But, is it sustainable in the long run? Richemont group watches had their prices raised in 40% in five years.
The thing is, when one brand raises the prices, then the others have to follow, otherwise customers could think that the more pricey brand is higher/better than the other ones. At the same time the number of Swiss watches sold goes down a bit every year while the costs for labour and materials go up. So... But yeah there are big differences sometimes, e.g. a new steel Breitling Superocean 42 diver costs like 3500€ online, VS a new Rolex Submariner No Date diver costs like 11000€ online... while being very comparable regarding brand and quality.
Was the question asked in the video title ever really answered? The movement is average and, arguably, worse here than the same one in the Baume & Mercier watches that are at least COSC and sell for thousands less. Yes, it's attractive and comfortable, but that's not a cost-based achievement. More importantly, I simply don't buy the argument that $12k is reasonable relative to what far more prestigious brands than IWC sell Genta-derived watches for, especially considering IWC was selling an earlier iteration of his very Ingenieur design just a few years ago for almost half the price of the current model. And it's also important to hold on to a couple of crucial realities related to putting a price on Genta designs: First, he's dead and had no hand in creating this watch. It's the work of IWC's designers that takes inspiration from a watch Genta was paid to design for them a half-century ago. This is no different than VW trying to slap an extra $20,000 on the price of every GTI sold because the design is an evolution of Giugiaro's original...or, more to the point, Seiko trying to sell reissues of its own Giugiaro-designed watches for $12,000 because Giugiaro is objectively a more important designer than Genta could have dreamed of being. You could say the same for Braun's Deiter Rams designs, which are still inexpensively priced despite Rams' incalculable importance and influence on modern design. This is a very pretty watch, a very cool design (IMO), and definitely made to a high standard. But even compared to other IWCs, the price is arbitrarily high and hard to defend beyond saying, "if you can afford it and you like it, you don't need to defend it." There is simply no objective argument for the MSRP here.
got my 39mm with the white dial on the 3-link "Bader" bracelet watch on AMZWATCH 3 weeks ago and am loving it to pieces. Absolute fantastic watch that wears super comfortable on my 6.75 inch wrist. Chose the 3-link over the 5-link bracelet for the toolless quick adjustment. Way more comfortable than my Longines Hydroconquest 41 mm.
I’ve had one for a year. And I just received the adjustable clasp after ordering one 11 weeks ago. It’s a great looking watch although sometimes I see it as very cold clinical design. I guess it really fits the Ingenieur/Engineer design elements. As for that LF Sport Auto, I got to sit down with those guys in this year’s Watches and Wonders. It’s my grail, but I find it very overpriced for what it provides. I’m more inclined to spend those funds for a PF Tonda GMT Rattrapante- might as well get a complication along with that price tag.
I got the Ingenieur Automatic Edition Laureus Sport for Good Foundation with the Blue Dial 10 years ago, much prefer that, not into the checked effect on the current dial & the price was much better (& some proceeds to charity), also numbered Limited Edition of 1500
I liked the Aqua so much that I did the logical thing…I bought the Titanium. Regarding the price I preferred to give IWC a little more than reward flippers.
Let's put it this way: if a Mark XX, which has the same movement and a significant better clasp (made by Brogioli, who does it for the A.L&S Odysseus and the GO SeaQ) is less than $7k, there is no reason why the Ingenieur should be $12k. Except for marketing and the hype surrounding Genta and integrated bracelets.
@@GrahamTWC I'm not sure what your point is: the Submariner Date is around the same price as a Datejust 41 on jubilee bracelet and fluted white gold bezel, and only 20% more expensive than the one on oyster bracelet with steel bezel. Which one can put down to the cost of the dive bezel. In any event, pricing is mostly a function of marketing rather than cost of production. Classic example being the Omega Seamaster "Bond" edition in titanium costing twice as much as the the regular steel edition. There is no way that titanium would command a 100% price increase.
I was working in asia recently and saw this exact watch offered with both the Asian and swiss ETA 2892 movement inside. Looked identical to the one in this video and was 1/20th the price. I didn't buy it, but it makes you think all these brands are trying to hard to justify their insane pricing.
@ I bought mine when they first came out and they didn’t even offer half links at that time but I got lucky and it fit me pretty much just how I’d want it to. I’ve thought about buying one separately but the fit is so good now I don’t see the need. On the ones sold now u get the half link included. So I’d imagine with the half link u would be able to get the ideal fit. The links r pretty small. U want to hear something super crazy there’s one made by mysterious code that’s only like $40 I bought it for my nephew for Xmas during the recent sale and for $40 I’m absolutely blown away at the quality, the bracelet especially. Plus it’s a vh31 quarts a decent movement with sapphire glass. The name as the logo dosent look the best but I was so Impressed I bought one for myself as a beater. I wish they used the logo mc that’s on the crown as there logo on the dial but other than that and the finishing not be as good as on the ix&doa it’s very very nice and for $40-45 it’s insanely good. There r some RUclips videos of the mysterious code that show it off. The ix&dao truly is the best watch I own it’s that good imo. I’ve considered buying the mop dial one as I like mop dials and I know I’ll be extremely happy with it. As I’m sure if u pick up any version of the ix&dao u will be over the moon. If u get one check back and let me know what u think.
@@SteelAddicted just bought a cronos iwc markxx homage. Didn't even know about the engineer. It's kinda easy trying out these Chinese watches since their so cheap.
@@justinhogue9861did u buy the blue chronos or the purple or maybe the green those 3 all looked stellar to me. I keep eyeing that one but it’s very flashy and I know my girl will give me guff for it being so bling bling. U will have to let me know how it is once u get it. It does look very good from the reviews I’ve watched which have been of the blue dial.
How can I criticise it? By taking a good look at the Ix&Dao Engineer. The price difference doesn’t match reality 🤷🏼♂️. Yet the income difference between a simple employee to a CEO is times 700 or so, which is unreal yet there it is.
Not even close. The movement is a Val Fleurier. Good power reserve, the 32111 movement is not a in-house movement as advertised. So for this reason, the value should be about half the listed price.
Circling back to this after the Cubitus, this watch now looks like a bargain. At the time I thought it was overpriced and I still do but that watch is not worth 4 of these.
Well done video! Definitely a sweet watch but kinda hard to justify the difference in price with the mark xx considering the movement is the same. Having said that I've owned a pp nautilus in the past and that watch is definitely overpriced...far more overpriced than this one...or maybe the same on a different scale. Many people would disagree but sometimes looks are worth a little more money. Who knows🤷♂️ Good luck with your channel!
Yes, true. The finishing on the watch isn't worth it. It's a bit unrefined. But the design is great and it is very similar in regards to an AP. Good alternative just need to cheaper
@@rabajdajr3001I disagree. The case finishing is quite nice in person. It’s the non in-house mvt that makes me scratch my head (i realize it’s also richemont mvt too) considering they have their own capable mvts like the 82000
It's worth 4-5k, and I'm not trying to bash IWC or ingenuer in any way. Baume et Mercier Riviera has the exact same movement and is priced at $3500 ish. I'll let IWC charge a bit more for the dial if it's not stamped.
@@technik_media I can get a new one from a grey market @ $11250 USD (Yes. the IWC Ingenieur titanium). plus I already have a batgirl and a white gold yatch master (with similar black dial as submariner)
it’s a beautiful watch and it is finished to a better level than the other Watch that features that movement- However what you’ve got to ask yourself is what is the cost of that? I’m in England where this Watch costs £10,000 The baume and Mercier riviera costs £3600 the finishing is not quite as good. The bracelet is not quite as good but you’ve got to ask yourself is the iwc 6000 English pounds better? the Answer overwhelmingly is no. If the IWC was 6000 English pounds. This might be justifiable but like most IWC watches it’s overpriced.
Is it objectively worth $12k? Probably not. Would I pay $12k for one? Yup. Call me a sucker, but the design of this watch just speaks to me more than most watches in the sub $10k range.
Is any integrated bracelt watch worth the price? In the pantheon of IB watches this is at the lower end. Name a better watch for cheaper. Its pretty hard to do. Czapek, patmigiani, Moser, GP all more expensive. The Constellation in the only higher end brand that is cheaper. Only watch snobs care that much about in house movements for a basic 3 hander.
the watch itself is great no comment . The price should be 7-8 max. I love and will love iwc forever but the PR is everytime phucked up. First they came out without bracelet fine adjuster. Now the adjuster is with extra price.
As a watch enthusiast with NO budget, thank you MAMACOO for great-looking mechanical watches that I can afford! their are very clean, classy look, $150 each. I still watch videos about expensive “proper” watches, but I enjoy what I have
It's actually complete nonsense to ask whether a luxury watch is worth its price. Because for the person who buys this watch, it is obviously worth the price. But if you go into the details in a completely neutral way and try to judge it by the strap, for example, then the Ingeneur is absolutely not worth its price. Because a tool watch in this price category without fine adjustment is a no-go. If I had to choose, I would definitely choose the Girard Perrgaux Laureato. Not because it is a technically better watch, but because it looks much better.
I own 2 IWC watches --- I'm a big fan of the brand ... however, the pricing on this just seemed like pure greedflation - it was a d_ck move; just like JLC raising prices by 40%
Same here, had a Big Pilot, now a Mark 18. Bought both for half price on secondary market. Was talking with a dealer the other day, he says most brands like Cartier or Tudor or Omega lose 20% and IWC lose half the value - indeed they are overpriced.
@@r1pperuk I appreciate the sentiment and understand how you arrived there. I think there is a lot of value in Oris for the money, and own one too. I don’t look at this piece as an alternative asset class, so value retention is less important to me in this particular case, but I see your point. Appreciate the comment!
Wise, Zelos, San Martin, Christopher Ward are all producing much better, refined, and interesting designs for fractions of the price. So, no, I don't think this watch is worth anywhere near 12k. Closer to 2-3k IMHO.
Is a luxury product worth the money? That's not the question. These products are not subject to the usual calculations of the industry: development costs, manufacturing costs, producer and retailer margins, including consumer taxes. This watch is priced like any other watch from a premium manufacturer on the market, what is the customer prepared to pay for the watch? The prestige of the manufacturer, the availability of the watch, the buyer's vanity in owning this watch and the value retention are also decisive factors. The IWC Ingenieur is certainly not worth 12,000 USD because IWC also manufactures its watches semi-industrially these days, just like Omega, Rolex and others. The better question would be, can I get a higher quality watch from other manufacturers for 12,000 USD?
Picked up a AMZWATCH's watch as my first watch last month and I’m absolutely in love with it. Perfect size, looks elegant, very comfortable. Now my only problem is holding off from buying more watches so quickly!
There is no arguing around. You overpaid grossly for this watch and try to desviate. It is simply true, the movement is not really in-house. I assume it is basically the same movement with the $3,500 Baume & Mercier Rivieira. So where does all the extra money go? On the dial or the bracelet? Come one....
Not even worth 2k. The watch industry are creaming it in, selling a few hundred dollars worth of materials for twenty times their costs. E.g. 316l stainless costs about usd 3.5 per kilo in bar form. 2 kilo needed to make case and bracelet. Usd 40 for machining, usd 30 for polishing, usd 40 for assembly, usd 150 for movement and about usd 40 for packing. Oh and dont forget usd 10 to ship it all to Swisserland or Germany for the assembly, so it can have Swiss made on the dial. 😂 Bought the ix Doa with SWISS movement for usd 370. 9/10 th's as good as the IWC but for approx 1 / 30 th the price. Shocking how close it gets really. I think some of the components must be made in the same Chinese factory.
Of course it isn't worth it, no so called "luxury" watch is worth a fraction of it's price. The same can be said for designer fashion and other "aspirational" products but as long as the marketing hype continues and people are persuaded to pay the astronomical prices it won't change. I once bought into the hype, an Omega Speedmaster 38mm. Full retail is around $5K but I got a good deal. Yes it's a lovely watch with a complex chronograph movement but comparing it to some of my other far less expensive watches, the quality is no better and I will never again pay that sort of money for a watch. There are so many brands out there from all over the world, producing excellent, original watches at way more realistic prices. For even lower cost take a look at San Martin who are now making some great original designs, with quality and finishing to rival far more expensive brands, at around $200-300.
Iwc has one of the worst movement finishing in that price range….. open that case back, it’s a movement that’s insanely cheap to produce with no hand finishing
I have huge problems with this hot garbage. Nomos has the alpha caliber. They haven't developed it, it's an eta 7001 but at least Nomos produces watches with alpha calibers 95% inside Glashutte. Cartier Santos movement is a Piaget but priced well and exclusive enough to be considered in-house. Tudor and channel own Kanissi and I consider their watches in-house. Hermes hasn't developed their movements but they own part of the vacher and from head to toe they have designed the watches except for the movement so at 8k is good value. This garbage no one knows what's going on inside. The movement I'm 100% sure is the same movement featured in Baume et Mercier Baumatic Riviera and is developed and produced entirely by Richmond in Val Flurier. There's no way the case and bracelet of Mark xx is 2k more expensive than Baume et Mercier or this one 8k better than that with the same movement. I would pick a Nomos Mertro 33, Damasko DS30, and a Tudor and still have 4k in my pocket. With spending 2k more a Cartier Santos will be added to. How is IWC going to convince people to not buy any good 4 watches and instead purchase this? IDK
I am not even going to watch this video - 🤪 sorry, but my answer is: NOOOOOO! IWC have come down so much in quality that most of their watches are worth zero, rien, zilch, nada, nothing, nichts, nüüt ... stay as far away from this brand as you should stay away from Hublot, TAGHeuer, Panerai, Lange & Söhne, Audemars Piguet ... to name but a few: very bad, boring and rather cheap watches, poor service, exorbitant prices, arrogant "boutiques". Just crap you do not need, really.
@@ygrbooks thanks for the comment. I agree with Hublot, Tag, Panerai, and AP. Lange is far out of budget for me, but I find that to be the most interesting part of your list. Personally, I’d got for a GO Panomatic and saving 30k+ vs a Lange 1. What makes you say Lange?
@@technik_media I have always loved the craftsmanship and design of Lange & Söhne, but there are some serious issues: 1. Once you get one (lucky you! 🤪), you will find customer response a major problem. If you can get through to them at all - 😩 2. Any problem that surfaces (and there are many, believe me), will not be handled to your satisfaction, if at all - 🤮. 3. I am old and love a "big date" - 😊. Why Lange & Söhne have never been able to create such a complication where both discs are on the same level, is beyond me. GO did it and even the ridiculed Patek Philippe Cubitus features this. It is just an eyesore on $100'000+ watches. 4. The watches look nice (apart from the "big date") and are really beautifully crafted. However, something in their inner mechanics seems to be inherently wrong, which at their prices is totally unforgivable. Check out Lange & Söhne buyers on RUclips and you will find videos galore to prove my points. Becoming an old grumpy man, I have come to distrust any watches made after 1975. The 50s and 60s were best, but then it all went down. You can now buy very fancy watches at $10'000 to 20'000, but you will pay the price: low quality - particularly in the materials - at over-hyped "technological progress" (there is none to speak of). My advice: buy a vintage watch from the 50s or 60s. How about a lovely Heuer, or Omega, or Zenith, or Universal - even IWC or Rolex if "love" their looks? You would get quality at a good price and have a real watch.
@@ygrbooksI don’t know about Lange customer service, but couldn’t disagree more with all the vitriol and negativity. I watched and loved the video. Agree w the GO comment and modern beats vintage for sure. Cheers.
Imo its worth every penny, true watch enthusiasts buy what they like and dont worry or think about resale. My favourite is the white dial though, when i saw it in person it just looked amazing.
As a watch enthusiast with NO budget, thank you MAMACOO for great-looking mechanical watches that I can afford! their are very clean, classy look, $150 each. I still watch videos about expensive “proper” watches, but I enjoy what I have
I went with Tudor, cosc & metas certified - looks killer and for a good price too.
This is a Richemont issue. They’ve now set prices for their brands in what could only be charitably called “optimistic”. Even if the watch bubble hadn’t burst, there was no way IWC, Panerai, JLC etc could command the premiums that have been asked over the past for years
Agreed. 25% hike on JLC is wild- on the hunt for a Reverso
I recently tried this on, along with a GP Laureato and for kicks, a Moser Pioneer.
Laureato > Ingeniuer for a way better bracelet, display case back, general fit/finish/comfort.
But, I was like YOLO so for a bit more, got the Moser + steel bracelet. Over-budget, but now I have a grail watch that’s night & day better.
Just want to focus on the Ingenieur vs Laureato debate. Before going, I was more excited about the IWC, but unimpressed with the flat, very meh case shape. The Laureato case shape is vastly superior, and the bracelet is probably the most buttery comfortable I’ve ever tried on. If I had a hard budget, I would have gone Laureato, it’s just a vastly superior watch. The IWC would be a no-brainer at $7k, though.
I own one myself in aqua and I could not agree more! Well summarized !
Great watch!
IWC makes a nice watch. No doubt. But, I think the price of a IWC is about 25% too high.
The Ingenieur is gorgeous.
Every brand thinks they’re Rolex and believe they can get away with ridiculous pricing.
I have huge problems with this hot garbage.
Nomos has the alpha caliber. They haven't developed it, it's an eta 7001 but at least Nomos produces watches with alpha calibers 95% inside Glashutte.
Cartier Santos movement is a Piaget but priced well and exclusive enough to be considered in-house.
Tudor and channel own Kanissi and I consider their watches in-house.
Hermes has developed their movements and they on part of the vacher so good value.
This garbage no one knows what's going on inside. The movement I'm 100% sure is the same movement featured in Baume et Mercier Baumatic Riviera and is developed and produced entirely by Richmond in Val Flurier. There's no way the case and bracelet of Mark xx is 2k more expensive than Baume et Mercier or this one 8k better than that with the same movement.
I would pick a nomos Mertro 33, Damasko DS30, and a Tudor and still have 4k in my pocket. With spending 2k more a Cartier Santos will be added to.
How is IWC going to convince people to not buy any good 4 watches and instead purchase this? IDK
@@roubenkhosrovian well said. But as this video shows, there is a sucker born every minute. I guess IWC thinks that just the word "Genta" does them let go away with the extra 8K in comparison to the Baume & Mercier Baumatic Riviera, with supposed identical movement and very similar design.
Is the IWC ingenieur worth 12K?
Surely, not. In a normal market, it would be 6.5K on tops. However the last 5 years were crazy for the watch industry, since people got interested in Swiss mechanical watches and instagram ostentation.
The abusive prices have been kept by US and China customers. However, recent data shows that the interest has decreased. The market should retracted in 15% this year. The question is: will the Swiss industry adjust the prices or maintain the same price policy? They can agree to reach for the super rich customers and produce less pieces for high prices. But, is it sustainable in the long run?
Richemont group watches had their prices raised in 40% in five years.
I cannot see them lowering prices in the future…
The thing is, when one brand raises the prices, then the others have to follow, otherwise customers could think that the more pricey brand is higher/better than the other ones. At the same time the number of Swiss watches sold goes down a bit every year while the costs for labour and materials go up. So...
But yeah there are big differences sometimes, e.g. a new steel Breitling Superocean 42 diver costs like 3500€ online, VS a new Rolex Submariner No Date diver costs like 11000€ online... while being very comparable regarding brand and quality.
Great video! Nice integration between pictures and your recordings!
Quel magnifique modèle. Ce cadran est juste sublime. Bravo pour la présentation. 👍
Love mine to bits!
Keep up the great work
Cool video - no need to think about the LF. This bracelet is up there.
Was the question asked in the video title ever really answered? The movement is average and, arguably, worse here than the same one in the Baume & Mercier watches that are at least COSC and sell for thousands less. Yes, it's attractive and comfortable, but that's not a cost-based achievement. More importantly, I simply don't buy the argument that $12k is reasonable relative to what far more prestigious brands than IWC sell Genta-derived watches for, especially considering IWC was selling an earlier iteration of his very Ingenieur design just a few years ago for almost half the price of the current model. And it's also important to hold on to a couple of crucial realities related to putting a price on Genta designs: First, he's dead and had no hand in creating this watch. It's the work of IWC's designers that takes inspiration from a watch Genta was paid to design for them a half-century ago. This is no different than VW trying to slap an extra $20,000 on the price of every GTI sold because the design is an evolution of Giugiaro's original...or, more to the point, Seiko trying to sell reissues of its own Giugiaro-designed watches for $12,000 because Giugiaro is objectively a more important designer than Genta could have dreamed of being. You could say the same for Braun's Deiter Rams designs, which are still inexpensively priced despite Rams' incalculable importance and influence on modern design.
This is a very pretty watch, a very cool design (IMO), and definitely made to a high standard. But even compared to other IWCs, the price is arbitrarily high and hard to defend beyond saying, "if you can afford it and you like it, you don't need to defend it." There is simply no objective argument for the MSRP here.
got my 39mm with the white dial on the 3-link "Bader" bracelet watch on AMZWATCH 3 weeks ago and am loving it to pieces. Absolute fantastic watch that wears super comfortable on my 6.75 inch wrist. Chose the 3-link over the 5-link bracelet for the toolless quick adjustment. Way more comfortable than my Longines Hydroconquest 41 mm.
I’ve had one for a year. And I just received the adjustable clasp after ordering one 11 weeks ago. It’s a great looking watch although sometimes I see it as very cold clinical design. I guess it really fits the Ingenieur/Engineer design elements.
As for that LF Sport Auto, I got to sit down with those guys in this year’s Watches and Wonders. It’s my grail, but I find it very overpriced for what it provides. I’m more inclined to spend those funds for a PF Tonda GMT Rattrapante- might as well get a complication along with that price tag.
@@Kbo513 couldn’t agree more!
@Kbo513 how much was the adjustable clasp?
@ $470
@ Thanks 👌
Would like to see a comparison to the Moser Streamliner Blue Enamel
I got the Ingenieur Automatic Edition Laureus Sport for Good Foundation with the Blue Dial 10 years ago, much prefer that, not into the checked effect on the current dial & the price was much better (& some proceeds to charity), also numbered Limited Edition of 1500
no micro adjustment on my bracelet :( love the dil and polished centre links though!
I liked the Aqua so much that I did the logical thing…I bought the Titanium. Regarding the price I preferred to give IWC a little more than reward flippers.
Titanium is very cool! Recently tried it in store, and couldn't believe how light it fees next to mine.
Let's put it this way: if a Mark XX, which has the same movement and a significant better clasp (made by Brogioli, who does it for the A.L&S Odysseus and the GO SeaQ) is less than $7k, there is no reason why the Ingenieur should be $12k. Except for marketing and the hype surrounding Genta and integrated bracelets.
I think you have nailed it there, sir.
It is way overpriced.
So by that logic a Rolex Sub Date is overpriced because it shares its movement with a Datejust?
@@GrahamTWC I'm not sure what your point is: the Submariner Date is around the same price as a Datejust 41 on jubilee bracelet and fluted white gold bezel, and only 20% more expensive than the one on oyster bracelet with steel bezel. Which one can put down to the cost of the dive bezel. In any event, pricing is mostly a function of marketing rather than cost of production. Classic example being the Omega Seamaster "Bond" edition in titanium costing twice as much as the the regular steel edition. There is no way that titanium would command a 100% price increase.
looks as nice and reliable as one from Casio Edifice collection..maybe worth some 500-800 eur
It is far too expensive.
Compared to the Mk xx which has the same movement, and is thousands less.
When people are saying MAMACOO is a better option for buying a watch,I very much agree!
Great video! I love the watch but I think I'm more cut out from the PRX cloth (at least for the moment). Keep it up!
If the Cubitus is 41K, then this one is a bargain. But The Chinese are making beauties for 200 or 500 bucks. So…
I was working in asia recently and saw this exact watch offered with both the Asian and swiss ETA 2892 movement inside. Looked identical to the one in this video and was 1/20th the price. I didn't buy it, but it makes you think all these brands are trying to hard to justify their insane pricing.
Spectacular video!
If it's based on your video then yes. Fantastic work.
I'll stick with my ix&dao for $250 that probably has better finishing.
Are you guaranteed to get a good fit on that? Half link?
@ I bought mine when they first came out and they didn’t even offer half links at that time but I got lucky and it fit me pretty much just how I’d want it to. I’ve thought about buying one separately but the fit is so good now I don’t see the need. On the ones sold now u get the half link included. So I’d imagine with the half link u would be able to get the ideal fit. The links r pretty small. U want to hear something super crazy there’s one made by mysterious code that’s only like $40 I bought it for my nephew for Xmas during the recent sale and for $40 I’m absolutely blown away at the quality, the bracelet especially. Plus it’s a vh31 quarts a decent movement with sapphire glass. The name as the logo dosent look the best but I was so Impressed I bought one for myself as a beater. I wish they used the logo mc that’s on the crown as there logo on the dial but other than that and the finishing not be as good as on the ix&doa it’s very very nice and for $40-45 it’s insanely good. There r some RUclips videos of the mysterious code that show it off. The ix&dao truly is the best watch I own it’s that good imo. I’ve considered buying the mop dial one as I like mop dials and I know I’ll be extremely happy with it. As I’m sure if u pick up any version of the ix&dao u will be over the moon. If u get one check back and let me know what u think.
@@SteelAddicted just bought a cronos iwc markxx homage. Didn't even know about the engineer. It's kinda easy trying out these Chinese watches since their so cheap.
@@justinhogue9861did u buy the blue chronos or the purple or maybe the green those 3 all looked stellar to me. I keep eyeing that one but it’s very flashy and I know my girl will give me guff for it being so bling bling. U will have to let me know how it is once u get it. It does look very good from the reviews I’ve watched which have been of the blue dial.
Watch looks good but can’t understand why it’s nearly double the price of IWC Pilot Mark XX, when both use the same movement!
How can I criticise it? By taking a good look at the Ix&Dao Engineer. The price difference doesn’t match reality 🤷🏼♂️.
Yet the income difference between a simple employee to a CEO is times 700 or so, which is unreal yet there it is.
Not even close. The movement is a Val Fleurier. Good power reserve, the 32111 movement is not a in-house movement as advertised. So for this reason, the value should be about half the listed price.
Circling back to this after the Cubitus, this watch now looks like a bargain. At the time I thought it was overpriced and I still do but that watch is not worth 4 of these.
Nicely done 👏
Well done video! Definitely a sweet watch but kinda hard to justify the difference in price with the mark xx considering the movement is the same. Having said that I've owned a pp nautilus in the past and that watch is definitely overpriced...far more overpriced than this one...or maybe the same on a different scale. Many people would disagree but sometimes looks are worth a little more money. Who knows🤷♂️ Good luck with your channel!
No, it is worth closer to 7-9K
This is indeed reflected on the grey market where a lot are for sale around €9K.
Grey market is around $9.5k for a 2024 watch full set. I guess the question is, if it retailed at $9.5k would the resale be around $7.5k
Yes, true. The finishing on the watch isn't worth it. It's a bit unrefined. But the design is great and it is very similar in regards to an AP. Good alternative just need to cheaper
@@rabajdajr3001I disagree. The case finishing is quite nice in person. It’s the non in-house mvt that makes me scratch my head (i realize it’s also richemont mvt too) considering they have their own capable mvts like the 82000
It's worth 4-5k, and I'm not trying to bash IWC or ingenuer in any way. Baume et Mercier Riviera has the exact same movement and is priced at $3500 ish. I'll let IWC charge a bit more for the dial if it's not stamped.
This or a submariner green dial (market price)?
This.. 1) Finishing, and variety there of. 2) Dial design. 3) Bracelet comfort. What do you think?
@@technik_media I can get a new one from a grey market @ $11250 USD (Yes. the IWC Ingenieur titanium). plus I already have a batgirl and a white gold yatch master (with similar black dial as submariner)
it’s a beautiful watch and it is finished to a better level than the other Watch that features that movement- However what you’ve got to ask yourself is what is the cost of that? I’m in England where this Watch costs £10,000
The baume and Mercier riviera costs £3600 the finishing is not quite as good. The bracelet is not quite as good but you’ve got to ask yourself is the iwc 6000 English pounds better? the Answer overwhelmingly is no. If the IWC was 6000 English pounds. This might be justifiable but like most IWC watches it’s overpriced.
Is it better finished than a Mark XX, which is roughly half the price?
yes, perfect watch
Is it objectively worth $12k? Probably not. Would I pay $12k for one? Yup. Call me a sucker, but the design of this watch just speaks to me more than most watches in the sub $10k range.
It’s a crazy price considering how close the ixdao engineer gets to it in quality, modern manufacturing is incredible.
So good!
Is any integrated bracelt watch worth the price? In the pantheon of IB watches this is at the lower end. Name a better watch for cheaper. Its pretty hard to do. Czapek, patmigiani, Moser, GP all more expensive. The Constellation in the only higher end brand that is cheaper. Only watch snobs care that much about in house movements for a basic 3 hander.
somewhat i preferring 3227 gen ingeniuer, no doubt is thicker but at least aesthetic wise prefer it before Mr Kern mess it up during his time in iwc
Trying to imagine the steel Royal Oak price multiple justified based on these comments
the watch itself is great no comment . The price should be 7-8 max. I love and will love iwc forever but the PR is everytime phucked up. First they came out without bracelet fine adjuster. Now the adjuster is with extra price.
IWC can change whatever they like. If people then buy it, it's worth it. If they don't, it isn't.
I tried it last week; it should be no more than 6-7K.
As a watch enthusiast with NO budget, thank you MAMACOO for great-looking mechanical watches that I can afford! their are very clean, classy look, $150 each. I still watch videos about expensive “proper” watches, but I enjoy what I have
Wonderful video speaking completely facts …the price of the new IWC is absolutely worth it … no questions
It's actually complete nonsense to ask whether a luxury watch is worth its price. Because for the person who buys this watch, it is obviously worth the price. But if you go into the details in a completely neutral way and try to judge it by the strap, for example, then the Ingeneur is absolutely not worth its price. Because a tool watch in this price category without fine adjustment is a no-go. If I had to choose, I would definitely choose the Girard Perrgaux Laureato. Not because it is a technically better watch, but because it looks much better.
Well if the Cubitus is worth 40.000$…. It seems cheap…
The IWC Ingenieur is worth about half of $12k.
I own 2 IWC watches --- I'm a big fan of the brand ... however, the pricing on this just seemed like pure greedflation - it was a d_ck move; just like JLC raising prices by 40%
Same here, had a Big Pilot, now a Mark 18. Bought both for half price on secondary market. Was talking with a dealer the other day, he says most brands like Cartier or Tudor or Omega lose 20% and IWC lose half the value - indeed they are overpriced.
@@Iuckylukey I will buy one used in the future…
No Obviously..and good luck getting your money back if you need to sell. I would buy an Oris cal 400 on sale for £2000 but im a cheap skate.
@@r1pperuk I appreciate the sentiment and understand how you arrived there. I think there is a lot of value in Oris for the money, and own one too. I don’t look at this piece as an alternative asset class, so value retention is less important to me in this particular case, but I see your point. Appreciate the comment!
Wise, Zelos, San Martin, Christopher Ward are all producing much better, refined, and interesting designs for fractions of the price.
So, no, I don't think this watch is worth anywhere near 12k. Closer to 2-3k IMHO.
quite nice , but its twice the price it should be ,,, and four times the price it could be ...
Is a luxury product worth the money? That's not the question. These products are not subject to the usual calculations of the industry: development costs, manufacturing costs, producer and retailer margins, including consumer taxes. This watch is priced like any other watch from a premium manufacturer on the market, what is the customer prepared to pay for the watch? The prestige of the manufacturer, the availability of the watch, the buyer's vanity in owning this watch and the value retention are also decisive factors. The IWC Ingenieur is certainly not worth 12,000 USD because IWC also manufactures its watches semi-industrially these days, just like Omega, Rolex and others. The better question would be, can I get a higher quality watch from other manufacturers for 12,000 USD?
Picked up a AMZWATCH's watch as my first watch last month and I’m absolutely in love with it. Perfect size, looks elegant, very comfortable. Now my only problem is holding off from buying more watches so quickly!
Ixdao is 99% as good as
I rather have a Rolex. So I bought two. Where’s the Tfit for that kind of money.
nope it does not, and secondary watch market have reflected how much this piece truly worth
Less 30-35% of its retail price than it is worthy of a consideration. Simple Design, lacks Wow factor, Dial looks dated,
It has nothing more than a sub date, so why does it cost 2k more?
I would say 5 grand!
NO........... It's a very simple question... NO, NOPE, NAIN...NI, NET... I like IWC, but it's one of the KING OF SUPER MEGA OVERPRICING...
There is no arguing around. You overpaid grossly for this watch and try to desviate. It is simply true, the movement is not really in-house. I assume it is basically the same movement with the $3,500 Baume & Mercier Rivieira. So where does all the extra money go? On the dial or the bracelet? Come one....
Not even worth 2k. The watch industry are creaming it in, selling a few hundred dollars worth of materials for twenty times their costs. E.g. 316l stainless costs about usd 3.5 per kilo in bar form. 2 kilo needed to make case and bracelet. Usd 40 for machining, usd 30 for polishing, usd 40 for assembly, usd 150 for movement and about usd 40 for packing. Oh and dont forget usd 10 to ship it all to Swisserland or Germany for the assembly, so it can have Swiss made on the dial. 😂
Bought the ix Doa with SWISS movement for usd 370. 9/10 th's as good as the IWC but for approx 1 / 30 th the price. Shocking how close it gets really. I think some of the components must be made in the same Chinese factory.
Of course it isn't worth it, no so called "luxury" watch is worth a fraction of it's price. The same can be said for designer fashion and other "aspirational" products but as long as the marketing hype continues and people are persuaded to pay the astronomical prices it won't change.
I once bought into the hype, an Omega Speedmaster 38mm. Full retail is around $5K but I got a good deal. Yes it's a lovely watch with a complex chronograph movement but comparing it to some of my other far less expensive watches, the quality is no better and I will never again pay that sort of money for a watch.
There are so many brands out there from all over the world, producing excellent, original watches at way more realistic prices. For even lower cost take a look at San Martin who are now making some great original designs, with quality and finishing to rival far more expensive brands, at around $200-300.
Iwc has one of the worst movement finishing in that price range….. open that case back, it’s a movement that’s insanely cheap to produce with no hand finishing
No, next question
I have huge problems with this hot garbage.
Nomos has the alpha caliber. They haven't developed it, it's an eta 7001 but at least Nomos produces watches with alpha calibers 95% inside Glashutte.
Cartier Santos movement is a Piaget but priced well and exclusive enough to be considered in-house.
Tudor and channel own Kanissi and I consider their watches in-house.
Hermes hasn't developed their movements but they own part of the vacher and from head to toe they have designed the watches except for the movement so at 8k is good value.
This garbage no one knows what's going on inside. The movement I'm 100% sure is the same movement featured in Baume et Mercier Baumatic Riviera and is developed and produced entirely by Richmond in Val Flurier. There's no way the case and bracelet of Mark xx is 2k more expensive than Baume et Mercier or this one 8k better than that with the same movement.
I would pick a Nomos Mertro 33, Damasko DS30, and a Tudor and still have 4k in my pocket. With spending 2k more a Cartier Santos will be added to.
How is IWC going to convince people to not buy any good 4 watches and instead purchase this? IDK
3239 for 5k!
@@matthewsteiner3064 that’s a good buy, indeed! Would love to have both gens
The movement got totally neglected
basically you bought this watch because you couldn't afford AP and PP?:)
@@molfar9049 it’s not a testament to what I can or cannot afford, but to the law of diminishing returns that exists
Hell no 😂
I am not even going to watch this video - 🤪 sorry, but my answer is: NOOOOOO! IWC have come down so much in quality that most of their watches are worth zero, rien, zilch, nada, nothing, nichts, nüüt ... stay as far away from this brand as you should stay away from Hublot, TAGHeuer, Panerai, Lange & Söhne, Audemars Piguet ... to name but a few: very bad, boring and rather cheap watches, poor service, exorbitant prices, arrogant "boutiques". Just crap you do not need, really.
@@ygrbooks thanks for the comment. I agree with Hublot, Tag, Panerai, and AP. Lange is far out of budget for me, but I find that to be the most interesting part of your list. Personally, I’d got for a GO Panomatic and saving 30k+ vs a Lange 1. What makes you say Lange?
@@technik_media I have always loved the craftsmanship and design of Lange & Söhne, but there are some serious issues:
1. Once you get one (lucky you! 🤪), you will find customer response a major problem. If you can get through to them at all - 😩
2. Any problem that surfaces (and there are many, believe me), will not be handled to your satisfaction, if at all - 🤮.
3. I am old and love a "big date" - 😊. Why Lange & Söhne have never been able to create such a complication where both discs are on the same level, is beyond me. GO did it and even the ridiculed Patek Philippe Cubitus features this. It is just an eyesore on $100'000+ watches.
4. The watches look nice (apart from the "big date") and are really beautifully crafted. However, something in their inner mechanics seems to be inherently wrong, which at their prices is totally unforgivable.
Check out Lange & Söhne buyers on RUclips and you will find videos galore to prove my points.
Becoming an old grumpy man, I have come to distrust any watches made after 1975. The 50s and 60s were best, but then it all went down. You can now buy very fancy watches at $10'000 to 20'000, but you will pay the price: low quality - particularly in the materials - at over-hyped "technological progress" (there is none to speak of).
My advice: buy a vintage watch from the 50s or 60s. How about a lovely Heuer, or Omega, or Zenith, or Universal - even IWC or Rolex if "love" their looks? You would get quality at a good price and have a real watch.
@@ygrbooks agreed! GO is the way for way less with concentric discs on the date wheel!
@@ygrbooksI don’t know about Lange customer service, but couldn’t disagree more with all the vitriol and negativity. I watched and loved the video. Agree w the GO comment and modern beats vintage for sure. Cheers.
lol no
no
It’s bland , it is .
IWC should be priced like Omega. change my mind
no, just no
Cartier Santos seems like a better choice than this IWC
No watch is worth that much money.
Imo its worth every penny, true watch enthusiasts buy what they like and dont worry or think about resale. My favourite is the white dial though, when i saw it in person it just looked amazing.
Chinese are able to make same quality bracelet for 1/10 the price
So the actual cost should be 1K
11K profit for a generic watch
As a watch enthusiast with NO budget, thank you MAMACOO for great-looking mechanical watches that I can afford! their are very clean, classy look, $150 each. I still watch videos about expensive “proper” watches, but I enjoy what I have