Stargate Atlantis SGA Puddle Jumpers
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2024
- #SciTrek #stargate #bringbackstargate #wewantstargate
The puddle jumper or Gate Ship was a very powerful all round vessel in SGA that could seemingly do anything that the heroes of the show needed it to do from go invisible, time travel to wiping out invincible replicators... To use the words from Worf in star trek, it was one tough little ship!
But was it too powerful, too capable, too everything?? Did the capability of this little ship really make sense or was it just a clever plot device used by the writers to let the story happen?
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The "train" concept is IDEAL!!!
Jumpers were exactly what the ancients needed them to be when you have a fleet of Aurora class ships, science vessels and more. The Atlantis Expedition would often use them beyond their intended means prior to, and in absence of, the Daedalus and other 304's being available.
Probably what lead Rodney to even considering giving one a hyperdrive before he got super smart and designed it
The puddle-jumpers were great, without them the forces of the Wraith and the Replicators would have been overwhelming to Atlantis. They were the means to some great story's and some great episodes.
The Alketh Train in SG1 also fans made a Combat Jumper Design
The SGC could have a Gate Ship building project. One version perhaps a GS-302, partly based on the Jafa Gate Ship.
And because its the airforce its kinda surprising they didn't already have dropship or gunship variants in the works.
Could have easily done small helicopters
@@robkemp598I assume its budget and prop cost
The thing is SGC for most of the show wanted to attract as little attention as possible and sneak around most planets. Also almost all structures etc were centered close to the gate, most of the rest of the planets were just wilderness. So to a degree it makes perfect sense that SG-1 didn't need vehicles, not to mention the fact that the SGC gate room had little to no room for them and SG-1 wasn't the only team so you would need dozens of humvees for each team to have one. The only way to get them into the gate room would be to lower them in from where the gate had been lowered in, or to disassemble them and move them into the gate room and reconstruct them. None of these things were really feasible. Once they had the Alpha site all SGC operations should have been moved there and the SG teams would then leave from earth to go to the Alpha site then from Alpha site to their target mission planet. Running SGC from earth was really dumb as we see so many things go wrong inside the SGC.
But the “go wrong” was often a plot device. Having SGC face a problem raised the stakes and audience engagement far more than an Alpha site that could be replaced. There was also a Beta site and possibly others. (I can’t remember if there were more.)
With regards to ZPMs.
My fan theory is that there was a facility that manufactured them.
But during the war, it was destroyed, either by the Wrath or the Ancients themselves, to prevent the Wrath from making some.
This would result in a shortage of ZPMs. This powering the sheild would've taken priority.
It's also very likely that there were more advanced variations for the Jumpers. But what we see is just what's left after the war.
I love the puddle jumpers, they’re awesome little ships.
The jafar thought of it, there was the episode where braitac used a jafar attack craft designed for travel through the gate.
The Needle Threader was introduced in 3x01 as a Goa'uld variant of the Puddle Jumper meant as a Death Glider intended specifically for gate travel. Almost makes you wonder what a Goa'uld reverse-engineered version would be like, especially since the Ring Transporters were revealed to have been reverse-engineered from Alteran/Lantean tech
The puddle jumpers were the means to not walking all the frelling distances on foot. And the space gates (which really made sense!) could only be used by puddle jumper. Plus being in orbit allows scanning the planet as a whole, working out where to go, without the limit of footwalk distance. They really make sense. I could imagine that in the future they use the puddle jumpers on a regular basis. Or an earth tech replacement of some sort.
I wonder, if they ever got told about addresses, where they could dial in, but everyone who went there just did not return.
sure, they stepped out a spacegate, stupid humans, who try to breathe in vacuum... but still.
there was this one episode (need to look up which episode it was), where the atlantis expedition found out about spacegates by watching their malp floating away.
most of the people out there don't have malps, they have to rely on "oh, my friend went there, did not return, maybe that's not a good address to go to".
Great question and answer, Jay! I didn't think about that aspect of the puddle jumpers.
Puddle-jumper, and just right as they were for the plot
I remember an interview from when Atlantis was premiering. The stated trick to designing the Wraith was to make an enemy strong enough to defeat the original Atlantians while simultaneously being dumb enough to be out smarted by a group of humans.
I can see the same issue with the Puddle Jumpers. As you stated, it's a fairly logical ship design resulting after millennia Gate Travel and the Ancients were advanced enough to create an extremely powerful and nigh indestructible ship. They created a monster that still had a glass jaw when the writers needed it.
You're correct. It should've been much stronger, and there should've been a few different types.
The idea for the gate ship was thought of during SG1, but with Atlantis coming soon, they kept it for the new series.
They used it in season 8.
@@hundetuem Yes, Atlantis started at the same time.
@@10thdoctor15 Right, now I get it. You mean, why they didn´t use it in SG1 simultaneously. In the 1st season of Atlantis there was no contact, but you´re right, after that they could have sent some jumpers sent to Earth for being used for SGC-missions.
Puddle Jumpers ... It is what it is ... A small ship that can jump from point A to point B like a rock skipping over a water way 😊
The Puddle Jumper would have been a tight fit in the Gate Room. 😮
Well, they do still have the opening in the ceiling that they've dropped/lifted a stargate through multiple times. It was round, and if it can fit a stargate, it can fit a puddle jumper. Worst case scenario they'd need to store the puddle jumpers at surface level, unless they wanted to do some remodeling of course.
Actually they were planning some sort of vehicle for SG-1. I think it was Brad Wright who mentioned it in some interview ages ago. They however decided to save that for Atlantis when they got the idea to develop that spin-off.
Yes but they also developed the 302 etc which gave them the plot device they needed. In sga they did that from day 1
Just mentioned it as it sounded like you hadn't heard that :) @@scitrek
Theres some awesome fan art of troop ship variants. As for fighters i don't think it was ever in the ancients battle doctrine to USE fighters but they probably should have considering the overwhelming nature of the Wraith darts (even if they were remote controlled)
100% agree. The PUDDLE JUMPERS were/are underpowered.
They're great for the roles they were intended to fill by the Ancients who designed them. I don't think a heavier combat-oriented version was really needed since they had Aurora-class battleships for when more firepower was needed.
I kind of liked your idea of hooking up a train of cargo containers behind the jumper, but then I remembered that the Ancients could simply beam stuff through an open gate (like Merlin's lab for example) so if they needed to move large amounts of cargo around they probably did it that way. A gate train would be cool though.
Also I think it would be a mistake to stick a ZPM in every puddle jumper. Remember that ZPM's are rare/hard to make and also very strategically valuable. The Wraith captured them and powered their own technology, and that's why the war went so badly. So if the Ancients could somehow produce a few dozen extra ZPM's and put them on puddle jumpers, it would make it that much easier for the Wraith to capture them. Also since a damaged ZPM can explode with enough energy to take out whole planets (I'm thinking here of the sabotaged one SG-1 got from Camulus) you don't want to go putting those on small craft that are more likely to get shot down. Think of it this way: we actually have the technology right now to make a nuclear powered car. But we don't do it because it would be absurdly dangerous to have that many nuclear reactors driving around occasionally crashing into each other in the middle of heavily populated areas.
If the Lanteans had developed fighter-style variants they wouldn't necessarily need to be as powerful as the Aurora-class, if they were slimmed down like the Dart and had extended "wings" for added weapons it could have expanded their defensive role against the Wraith.
Can't remember the RUclipsr, but they made an animation of both a combat-oriented Jumper and a three-deck transport Jumper
@@andrewmalinowski6673 Yeah I saw that video too. The channel is called "Spiderware".
What you just described is pretty much what a jumper already is. A small, fast ship with weapons. What would be gained by making it slimmer like a dart? A smaller target that's harder to hit? Cloaking already makes it near impossible to hit. You're just sacrificing cargo space for no real benefit.
You don't need extended wings to hold added weapons, since additional drones can be carried internally and loaded and launched on-the-fly (they did this in the episode where Atlantis was flying through an asteroid field, and the jumpers carried extra drones when they went to blast asteroids out of the way). Drones are pretty powerful weapons, too. O'Neill used the time jumper they found on Mayborne's planet ("It's Good to be King") to destroy a Ha'tak. I'm a little disappointed that the Atlantis team never did something like that, but I guess from a writing perspective it would've made the Wraith seem too weak to be a serious threat.
Maybe in the new show (being in the future) they finally mass produced the Jumpers with (yes) the drone weapons plus a laser weapon as well from the Asgard. Then they could explore not only the planet but all around its solar system. It is truly the ultimate cruise ship and they could add (like I wanted) was the time jump capability. WOW ... now this would be the ships of all ships! 😊
I came up with an Earth-based variant in a story once, intended to "transform" from an Earth-like form into a Jumper-like form. Intended to conceal the SG officer's presence in the Stargate Program while getting to an orbital version of the SGC.
After having the combination; Goa'uld, Lantean/Ancient, Asgard, and Ori technology from the 10 years (SG-1) that the SGC had been operating it's likely they could make equal versions either on-par with or similar to the Jumper. It would be nice to see a version used by Earth other than the Time Jumper from "It's Good to be King" and "Moebius"
The best episodes were the ones with the puddle jumpers
On top: 38 minutes!
Gate ships or other vehicles on SG-1? It could have been a production limitation. How much would it have cost? What would they have to give up in exchange?
Imagine this... Carter:: "Thanks to my new computer upgrade, the gate is completely run by voice command. Walter has been transferred" Teal'c: "He will be missed. Computer dial, Chulak!"
Maybe this... Jack: "Siler! Where's Siler?" Carter: "Siler was transferred along with Walter. The computer upgrade also allows the base to self-repair. We didn't need either of them anymore." Jack: I still need him! Get him back. Daniel: Hey guys, have you seen our new scout vehicles. Jack: Forget about that! Get Siler back! We could be attacked on that planet and he promised to stand-in- eh... do something for me."
Like you said, it was a design that took the most intelligent race in the known universe had that was meant to be a general propose ship for short-range travel. No hyper drive, no shields, and only drones for defense. So no not over-powered, just well designed. I believe the replicators had made a "frigate" version of the jumpers, but they were too large to use the gates, I had seen some concept art of a troop version, but it never was brought up in cannon.
The biggest reason SG-1 never went that way is because the human's tech was never advanced enough to make something powerful enough to travel a planet/orbit while being small enough to fit the gate. Basically they needed Tony Stark's arc reactors... :P
Now there's a cross-over!
If Tony Stark was smark enough to create nanotech suits or the min-reactor to both power his suits and the electromagnet keeping the shrapnel from piercing his heart, imagine Tony with the Asgard or Lantean RoK at his disposal; Hulkbuster-style suits and ships likely on-par with either a Death Glider or Dart
@@andrewmalinowski6673 While I agree about Tony Stark and how access to the tech they found would of helped, but the closest person they had in the Stargate universe to Tony was that one guy that tried to force the Airforce to admit to the Stargate program, and we know what happened to that guy. Lets face it, the MCU and the Stargate universe never crossed paths, otherwise things might have been very different for Stargate SG-1
I love the puddle jumpers I always assumed they did not have ZPMs as they was hard to make so supply was limited that's why there was not a ZPM storerooms full of them in all Ancient bases
Stargate Universe had such promise but they squandered it !!
Fun fact about the Stargate itself as you your opening point about no vehicles in SG-1. You can fit an M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank through the gate. Just so everyone knows.
I think that the Puddle Jumper was a test bed for some advanced Ancient technology which they were going to build into their bigger ships at some point. Picture this, a small fleet of improved Aurora-class battleships decloak surrounding a hive ship, blow it to bits and then recloak afterwards. The Wraith wouldn't even get a distress call out.
McKay can not name anything....gateship indeed. Puddle Jumper all the way.. hehee
Having a Fighter JP would be cool, but the you have the 302's. they could have been redesigned to fit the gate.
Or maybe some sort of hybrid.
If you think about it. They could have also used Humvees or Hummers to send through the gate to cover more distance and now that Atlantis is back on earth they now also have access to puddle jumpers.
This is one of the things I think about the series most often. Things you can get through a gate are really important and sgc kinda dropped the ball in that regard.
The Ancients took the train, ZPM powered and specific other purpose Puddle Jumpers with them when they "left" leaving the multi-purpose general units behind.
Retroactively, i would like to see some shared themes from one-off episodes to be a main B/C plot, important enough to get small mention here there, but most of the time not fixated all the time.
For Season #1 the CityShip would ideally be spend entirely underwater, trapped by several downed Wraith Cruiser ontop of the City .merging the Pilot Rising Part #1 & 3x18 Submerged.
The main threat for the season 1 its the preservation of the City itself, leaving enough power in the ZPM to last the Shields for 1 year, give or take, enough cause to stay within the City.
Especially after 3rd episode having encountered Shadow Creature, revealing 3 ZPMs, intially almost fully charged, but due them being a newer type, being rendered temporary useless
Theme wise its the mirroring and/or merging of 'Hide and Seek' & SG1's Zero Hour, and whilest 'action' from the plot was contained at the start of the season, its effects are felt through the series.
The newer type would incorporate a security feature, which when triggered causes the ZPM to 'sweat' out a icky substance, which in turn renders the entire ZPM useless, until scrubbed clean.
Similair to dye-packs to foil bank robberies, making them useless for unautherized personal and/or Wraith, however Atlantis itself contains a ZPM cleaning chamber able to recovering the ZPM.
However, due to being 'nibbled' at intervals by the Shadow Creature, as an energy being able to partially bypass certain Security measures, but eventually triggering & resealing it again.
The expedition was able to deal with the Shadow Creature before all of the energy got lost, but due to conflict, damaged the Cleaning Chamber, reducing their ZPM cleaning speed
Due to the Shadow Creature 'tastes' the ZPM were drained un-equally, resulting the the 'cleanest' ZPM had the lowest energy values, but sufficient to be cleaned by the 4-5 episode to power the city for several months, which gives the Expedition team enough time to train with the PuddleJumpers and remove the remains of Wraith Cruisers above the City itself
Themewise its takes the similair feel of B-plot of the Mid-way station, mentioned in the background, over the course of the Season 1, with remaining ones focusing on the Wraith themselves
2 B-plot episodes were used to introduce the B-Teams, using the PuddleJumpers to clear the Wraith Cruisers, merging plot of Submerged / Defiant One
The Last episode of season 1 would be Race agains time of raising the City itself towards the surface, with enough power to endure a single day of constant siege,
Altough this gets used up almost entirely, by having one of the Wraith cruisers, show up, and be dealt with, with the remaining energy killing the Wraithin in a last-ditch drone strike
Whilest the City ship is saved for the day, the Wraith as a collective are on mass towards their location oncemore, whilest the remaining 2 ZPMs arent cleaned enough, requiring a several dedicated Naquadah generators, forcing Season 2 to economically utilize the energy consumption, and finding alternatives.
One of these alternative is the season 2 introduction/mentions of the Wormhole Drives, which originally operating on the City-Ship to independently establish a wormhole jump withouth Gates.
Instead, Wormhole Drive would require atleast requires an Ancient outpost at the desired destination, tethered its own ZPM or an equally powerfull External Power sources
By dialing the Gate to this Site, a City-Ship, ideally hovering in the Air would able to calculate the nessecary coordinates 'relatively' along with energy stabilization on both sides
Whilest the 2nd found ZPM wasnt nearly enough cleaned to be properly used, similair events happes of reinforcement from Earth along with the Daedalus arriving with ZPM from moebius
However, instead of Cloaking the City Ship, the Expedition would use the Wormhole drive under less then ideal circumstances, becoming eventually landlocked on a inhabited planet.
Jump itself cause the Expedition to earn a negative reputation with the native population of carrying Death/destruction along being Wraith-bringers, dragging along several Darts, single Cruiser.
Secondly, through the rest of the season 3, reason that this new landmass was chosen, was that it contained a external energy sources, this being Geo-thermal power ontop of a SMALL volcano.
Finally at the end of season 3, the Volcano does explode, but instead of Jumping again through Hyperdrive/Wormhole Drive, the City remained stationairy, using the Shields non-stop.
Through season 4, having the Forcefield stopped the Lava long enough that cooled down to form permanent rock formation around the City, akin to scene from Disney's Atlantis.
Gradually the drain of maintaining the Forcefield gets reduce, until its only requires to shield the hostile atmosphere, waiting some tome before attempting 2nd wormhole jump.
However, instead of dealing with Energy issue this time around, they dialed a a space gate, with a orbital ancient space station, that involved events similair to 'Trinity'
Initially this allowed the City Ship to safely use the Wormhole drive as designed, however, due to similair circumstance were forced to hyperdrive to a nearest solar system for safety.
Due to the aruptness cause the Hyperdrive to disable itself, causing the City-ship to drop itself before reaching ideal distances for Sublight Engine to land the City-ship
This requires the City-SHhip to spend most of season 5 in space, akin to Space:1999? & Adrift, but retains a stable Energy Structure to keep the Shields raised for the entire time.
End of Season 5 would be marked with the City Ship dropping onto ice-like planets, with a receding ice-age, akin to the SGA post-tv novels
There were a couple of reasons why SG-1 didn't have a lot of vehicles.
1) Some Stargates were on planets that were hostile to human life and were largely avoided.
2) Some Stargates were surrounded by rough terrain.
3) Some Stargates were on Go'uld occupied worlds.
4) Some Stargates were being used by some other civilization.
5) Stargate Command did establish off world facilities, but that construction was never shown, but probably did use vehicles.
6) Malps provided storage for supplies.
7) They had a limited budget and a lot of forests.
There were Bobcats and small boom forklifts shown in a few episodes.
Also: You can't fit a vehicle much bigger than a MALP through any of the doors to the gate room. Let's say you want a Jeep. You have to open the roof and lower it into the gate room on a crane. You use it off-world for a while and then bring it back, now what do you do with it? There's barely room to store it in the gate room and it's always getting in the way of teams coming and going. Every time it needs maintenance, anything that can't be done right there in the gate room, you have to open the roof again and lift it out with the crane.
Also also: Most populated planets in the Milky Way were somewhere around the bronze age technologically, and had no vehicles of their own. In order to trade with others, their settlements were all built within walking distance of the gate anyway.
If for some reason they wanted to scout farther away from the gate, a UAV could cover a much larger area a lot faster than a Jeep.
@@matts1166All used in off-world Sites, especially with the 302s
Believe most of the time the gate was usually very close cities or in the city (in our Galaxy) Atlantis didn't need to be near the gate some of the was in space (be a bit unfortunate for anyone who dial the space Gate and entered it)
In my mind, the puddle jumpers weren't really fighters, they were recon vessels. All of the actual fighting capability they had was self-contained in the drones. Though the drones themselves were quite powerful, the puddle jumper had nothing to back them up with, little in terms of shields or armor, no countermeasures, etc. It's a research shuttle that they happened to fit an all purpose weapon in. Kind of like how mounting an rpg on a pickup truck doesn't make it a true combat vehicle, though you'd have a hard time convincing anyone from the midevil era that it wasn't a purpose-built war machine.
I have spent.... more time than I want to admit fine tuning a puddle jumper in space engineers. I couldn't do everything the show does, if only because of the way the game works (the game requires connecting components with piping that takes up space, and the physics is very accurate and difficult to bypass). I did end up going with "jumper inspired" rather than jumper clone. Added a turret, rail gun, and some machine guns. Thrust was tricky and it doesn't fly 1-to-1 like the show, but again physics.
I kinda wanna go make some variants now and see what I can do if I don't constrain myself to a single ship.
It's a Puddle Jumper. It should have been modular like the Eagle in Space 1999. With specialized pilot pod, cargo pod, rear pod. Pilot pods for: weapons, sensors, etc. Cargo pod for: weapons, cargo, people transport, specialized plot equipment and stackable with 1-3 units. Rear pod: engines, stealth, air locks what ever the writers need.
I feel off watching the original series but picked again with Atlantis and loved the first season, so promising with the Wraith being terrific villains. Then after the second season it fell off a cliff, with the loss of Torri Higginsin and falling back on old tropes like the replicators.
I don´t think it dropped. After SG1 being canceled, it just felt a bit empty.
@@hundetuem I've recently been watching all 3 series again and I really get annoyed with SGU being cancelled. The series was great and left a huge ???? at the end as it never got resolved.
@@jameslyddall I didn´t make it halfway through the first season. Couldn´t bear to watch.
Why in the world would you think you'd need more variants of the puddle jumpers when the thing they were launching from was a giant spaceship? The Atlantis Starship was the most powerful weapon in the Ancient Arsenal. Perfected over millions of years. They had battleships too, but those were more in support of settled planets and not Atlantean battleships. The ancients relied on their diplomacy and technology to avoid conflict. The puddle jumpers were an amusing practicality when the entire Atlantean people who hadn't ascended were primarily on these giant stations. I expect, had we enough time left to do so, there were probably places like Atlantis that were still in the Milky Way. An older style that was more of a blend between Destiny and the MW red gateways. And probably some variation on the puddle jumper existed too. But, in reality, I think if we had more time for expand SG1 we'd find that the original SG didn't understand how ancient technology worked because they never had a DHD to start with. But, given the time to explore and play with it - they'd have figured out a lot of new tricks - like, seriously, the ancients didn't invent redial?
I don't remember them being to powerfull. But i still need to see Atlantis season 3 and 4 or 4 for i lost track after season 2. Loved the series though.
My question was, why didn't they ALWAYS go through the gate in a jumper? Those things were damn handy to have with you. Especially in a number of the episodes where they were going into what they thought might have been an ambush, why didn't they have three cloaked jumpers with support teams follow them right though the gate?
Actually, in the context of Ancients, the puddle jumpers should have hyperspace/FTL engines (even slower to get to next planet with gate would help), should be longer (2-6 times longer) and should have some "drones", wich would scout ahead of ship itself (similary to M.A.L.P.), and if needed, tillt the gate a bit (similary as the gate lied flat for Ashen harvesters to send the crops, only for ensuring safety of the travel from the other side), for the long jumper to fit.
BTW, when the Ancients did not build the "long uber jumper", maybe the Tauri should reverse - engeneer it.
Another - final - point to the puddle jumper application - could be used for ultra quick redeployment of power inside a wast, multigalactic emporium, or could be used for long range reconosaince - probe finds interesting (or dangerous) civilization and builds a stargate somewhere close to them. A fleet of puddlejumpers is used to transport to the spot a dissassembled cruiser(s) and its crew, and that gives your side an advantage on the spot. If it goes OK, than great. If it goes south, you can still evacuate through the gate and self-destruct everything left, including the gate.
For SG teams in Pegasus galaxy, such strong jumpers could help to solve troublesome situations and multiple times save Atlantis and lives of the expedition members.
By VERY selective arms&technology dealing, could be greatly improved the position of Atlantis personel in Pegasus.
Travelers need more of spaceship hulls and onboard farming technology for better nutrition of their people, than some new fancy technology wich can they install into the "empty" ship themselves. They can offer inteligence on Wraith, combat assistance, their specific non-crystal based hyperdrive technology, and effective handguns (as can Ronon Dex testify).
Genii would get the most stripped down version there is - no shields, no invisibility, no sensors, no ancient interface, and ESPECIALLY NO WEAPONS. For that - inteligence, raw materials, food provisions.
For emp and rpg, necessity is the mother of innovation. If the ancients never experienced these problems, there would be no need to make improvements.
Maybe there were fighter and shielded variants, but after the war, only the unshielded (by default) jumpers were left.
I feel like the they dumbed them down actually. When they first introduced puddle jumpers they seemed amazing . The handheld scanner appeared out of nowhere like the ship was reading your mind. They rarely chose to show the mystery and wonder of ancient technology like that in the show and it’s sad.
Sheppard never got his turkey sandwich in that first flight.
I'm sure they would have liked various types of Puddle jumper, they just didn't have the money. Who knows.
I loved the puddle-jumpers (preferred the term gate-ship to be honest). For such a small vessel they are quite powerful, their offensive capability could be considered overpowered but since it relied heavily on a cloak and didn't seem to have shields until modifcations where made to covert the cloak into a shield (which drained the core much faster than the cloak), perhaps such a high-degree of offenses was necessary.
Oh, okay. Well, it's official. You don't get to name anything... ever.
The fact that Shepard used a puddle jumper and a nuke to take out a mother ship in early season 2 and then used the same trick to take out the "super hive ship" for the series finale shows how OP they were. Using this simple technique and an on board AI (so you don't need a pilot) the ancients cold have defeated ZPM enhanced wraith ships faster than the wraith could bread more warriors and won the war in a week.
I think the tactics were different; 201; Shepherd decloaked to be beamed onto Daedalus before the Puddle Jumper slammed into a hive ship and "Enemy at the Gate;" launched with a Control Chair to direct the Jumper towards the SuperHive.
If they did have an AI the Jumpers could have been better able to handle strain, likely used the Drones because their remote-operated function and "variable use" ability
@@andrewmalinowski6673 You are mis remembering I'm afraid. Earths control chair was destroyed (or made inaccessible) by multiple dart impacts as it had been moved to area 51 (or it would have been used for drones). There was a discussion of using a puddle jumper launched via chair at some point (I think it was in 201) but they never followed up. Sheppard used a 302 in "low power mode" to make it seem like a new trick but it was just the same trick as in 201. And Sheppard's being beemed out by the Daedalus wasn't the plan (so not a tactic), Daedalus happened to show up at the last minute to prevent Sheppard's suicide tactic. (you know suicide was a tactic since Sheppard confirmed with Dr. Weir that "if this works," someone else is going to have to fly the next jumper.) The fact is, once Atlantis found they had a wormhole connection to the super hive, they should have sent through a nuke and called it a day. The whole "Sheppard needs to sacrifice himself (yet again) was really unnecessary. Actually, suicide was Sheppard's tactic in a great many episode.His plot armor must be thicker than a battleship. I'll bet Torri Higginson still silently mouths the words "but, John, you'll be killed" in her sleep at night.
Puddle Jumper, for sure.
plot devices are needed
I wouldn't say they were too powerful unless you are comparing them to Star Trek shuttles. Its basically what you would expect. The problems you are pointing out are just inconsistencies. I never saw it as too powerful. I liked it.
the problem is that puddle jumper with ZPM could be captured by lower forms like wraiths and then after it could be used by them this would become bigger problem and even so ZPM wasn't something that could be made just like in small amount of time in that ZPM were heavily used by battle ships to fight them, probably they should experiment with battle ships and enable them to use more ZPM because they had too low energy if they could then use on them laser weapons with power source of ZPM like their satellites they could just basically destroy hive-ship without any problem because even with fighters the ship could shoot one shot and destroy their full ship, based on that Ori are using the beam this way it shouldn't be hard.
Best Stargate ship
When we get a new series do you think that the military on earth will develop their own version of the puddle jumper to be fighters and transporters of supplies and weapons to other worlds?
I think that would be the logical conclusion of Atlantis coming to Earth, even if temporary.
I'd love to see that, if like "2010" the public knowledge of the Stargate would mean they could move the gate and give the the freedom to "launch" vehicles through the gate.
After all the captured/collected alien technology they could make anything Puddle Jumper-like for off-world trips
While yes, they are "overpowered" comparatively, but as you said, they were built by the Ancients. The thing is, the Ancients' downfall was their hubris. They never even thought about the possibility of the Wrath becoming an issue until they were at war with them. Yet, the Ancients always won the battles, so they were more focused on ending the war, not making the battles more winnable. As such, instead of upgrading the average Jumper, they delved into other areas such as the Pegasus Replicators. Now, is it possible on some of their warships that they may have had more "fighter based" Jumpers, sure. However, again, their warships alone were able to take out multiple hives, so "why bother trying to improve the battle."
Like in Ukraine. Why innovating when you can just throw bodies at a problem. Innovating will go slower in that case.
Powerful? Yes. TOO powerful? Only if the writers had trouble with a plot problem that a capability that the `Jumpers had already shown they have would instantly (and easily) solve.
Between us, though, the Eagle (from "Space:1999") is my all-time favorite "Away from the Base" ship. IMO, its lines put the Puddle Jumper and Runabout to shame.
I've often thought about this, why not use naquadah powered Strykers or something? Heck an Abrams tank could fit through the gate (6.7m - 22ft)
if you had train car setups on it you'd have to move the gate out of the gate room and into a much larger storage hanger
They could not have made them much larger or they would not have fitted through the gate. Longer certainly but not wider. I see them as a old style american multipurpose truck for everyday use but with teetch when it needed it. The ZPM thing would have made sense but then the lack of ZPMs would have changed many story lines as that was an ongoing issue throughout the whole show. If there was one in each puddle jumper, there would not have been a lack of them. They did add a hyperdrive to one of them i seem to remember. Janus even converted one to a time machine.
I thought the puddle jumpers were fine except for the EMP susceptibility. Our fighters have been shielded against that for at least 10 years when Atlantis came out so no reason why the Ancients wouldn't have shielded it is beyond me. As for not having ZPMs we know Ancient tech basically ran off of them and that they had a bunch but truthfully we don't know how easy they were to make for the ancients and puddle jumpers (Gate ships) seemed to be basic transport ships for small numbers of people. Based on Atlantis, which is probably a writers/production team shortsightedness, the Ancients did everything with there bigger ships and because of the war had to try to keep there cruisers functioning so those were they're priorities. My guess before the war they probably had cargo ships/trains that went through space gates to deliver supplies
Maybe using land vehicles through the gate would produce too much of a footprint. It'd make their presence too noticeable, especially if they want to go low profile or black ops.
Puddle jumpers were built by the Ancients unlike Star Trek. Trek would frequently NOT do something simple like just beam the problem away or within the ship. They were small ships that might not be able to handle a ZPM size notwithstanding
The ancients didn't become the militarized humans as the humans we are today. That says many things both great but also sad of who we are today!
I do think the Puddle Jumpers Drones are great for more powerful vessels, but like using one to take out a Dart is kind of a waste.
The Ancients were scientists and explorers, not militaristic or concerned with commerce, so fighter and train variants don't really make sense.
A small multi-role flying vehicle however makes perfect sense.
1 million remote control puddle jumpers rigged with more than 12 drone could have eradicated the wraith in a year. Also imagine if they hadnt of given the replicators emotions and just made robots, the asurans would have been amazing caretakers of their outposts
They weren't too powerful. The cloak couldn't be active while travelling through the gate, and it didn't have a shield.
It makes sense that there would be more variants, but understandable that there aren't. It also would seem odd discovering them all at once.
And they had no hyperdrive, except for the one experimental puddle jumper they developed in SGA. Needed a ZPM though, if I recall correctly ...
@@hundetuem I don't think it needed a ZPM, but one journey took too much energy that they would have needed the ZPM to get back.
They make up for having no hyperdrive by fitting through the gate, which most ships can't (unless there's a supergate).
if ONLY the ancients had puddle jumpers armed with drones, they could have done what the SG teams did..
I noticed that as well that they never took vehicles through the Stargate. In Stargate they could only explore whatever was in walking distance. Why did they never take motorbikes?
They designed the ancient satellite, they could have easily built puddle jumpers that ran off a ZPM and had a main weapon like the satellite...
I always assumed the SGC didn't bother with vehicles because getting a vehicle into the gate room was basically impossible. Norrow corridors, small gate room, and was there even a cargo lift?
I'm not sure a puddle jumper would fit in the gate room either.
Logistically I just don't think they could accommodate such things. And back then in the 90's drones were way cooler and the hot new thing anyway.
A puddle jumper DID fit in the gate room several times, but there was nowhere to land. They had to open the roof and fly it off somewhere else, which is the same thing they would have had to do with any other vehicle very much bigger than a MALP
@@John73John yeah its been a while since I've watched, thought there might've been, but that'd be for special occasions, it's not like they had a hanger or easy way to facilitate that kind of operation on a day to day basis out of the SGC.
If they were made just before they left Atlantis and quite late on so they were about correct in power. I think maybe they only produced a small number of them towards the end of the Ancient occupation of the city which was probably about a year or slightly more.
The biggest difference between sg1 and sga was the distances from the gate to the communities, sg1 those races worshiped the gou'ald, which they had their settlements by the gate, where as in sga, they would of moved away from the gate more so to get away from the wraith scouts, have better chance of hiding imo..
That and many gates in sga were space gates
Atlantis had been in a war so it was possible that other versions such as fighters had all been destroyed.
Time Machine. There were time machine variants.
Why wasn't a puddle jumper or 2 sent to earths SGC once such things were possible? At the very least earth scientists in area 51 would be able to start reverse engineering hover and cloaking technology
All I have to say is this puddle jumper in Atlantains society would have developed this spaceship in a different way they would have hundreds of thousands of these things in Atlantis itself stored like a garage and some of these would be top secret test puddle jumper that would transform into another mode but the show ran out of Ideas. The atlanteans were billions of years of head of us. So if the show comes back the humans who live there need to explore those levels down below because Atlantis was gigantic it was bigger than any football field I've ever seen if this thing will ever real compare it it's bigger than the size New York.
The Atlantians have evolved to a level where they don't keep garbage. Why keeping the old versions that didn't fit their needs. It does make sense, since the city was limited. To only keep the minimum necessary and up-to-date.
The state of Atlantis when the Ancients left for Earth was the final state of a lost war. The expedition was lucky that there were still functioning spaceships.
I agree that the puddle jumpers weren't powerful enough.I could never understand why they didn't have at least 2 ancient pulse weapons on them
Plus the Drone weapons weren't that good a weapon. They lacked any real punch. A 1kg of C4 or a pipe bomb is more powerful.
Another factor is budget, mgm probably couldn't afford to design and produce sets for a new craft every couple of episodes or series. A bit like star trek recycling thier ship and set models as much as possible.
That was a primitive cannon if memory serves me right
I don't think a buggy would be useful for SG1. Most of the worlds they visited were covered by forests. Also the noise might attract unwanted attention.
Please be fair, that EMP was not a normal EMP, if I recall the episode correctly ...
They were fine, the ship that would have changed the show would have been the ancient battle cruiser.
Yes, that was probably too powerful. So the authors killed it off. Poor Major Lorne ...
umm. GateJumpers!
PuddleShip!
I love Atlantis
To me that is the best SG series
Tayla Ronan and mckay
God i love that series ❤❤❤😂😂😂
The only thing that was bad was the ending it was rushed and they didn't deserve an ending like that
But that's just nitpicking 😂😂
It is and are the BEST 😂😂😂😂
Just saying 🇳🇴
McKay calls them Gate Ships.
I don’t think so. I think McKay was dead set against it. It was Shepard.
@@scitrek Ford & McKay liked "gate ship" but Sheppard overrode them both & said "puddle jumper"
👍 👍
Why no dirt bikes or Razors like Special Forces use? That is another thing why no micro ZPMs were ever found that power things that don't need a full size ZPM?
Has anyone ever noticed theres really nowhere for the arms to be go?
except for the tank
It was the folks from The Tower prison camp island that shot down the Jumper with a jury rigged RPG, right?
Yes. The city had a deal with a wraith so they only fed in the “prisoners”
The presenter was constantly conflating the puddle jumper as a plot device concept and as an actual transport vehicle in-show. As a plot device concept, it was too powerful. It was the deus ex machina that was used too often to get out of impossible situations, which leads to lazy writing. As an actual transport vehicle in-show, it wasn't powerful enough. If it had been developed over millennia by the ancients, it'd have had a lot more capability - how many times did it break down at inopportune times or even get stuck in the gate? Those are things that would've been fixed if it had been developed by such an advanced species over such a long period of time.
Exactly the point I made. Good summary.
I don't think it make sense to have multiple variants of the puddle jumper. Atlantis is a big city, but ultimately limited in space. An all civilization lived there. So why loose space having many tools capable of doing few things, if you can have one capable of doing it all!? You are right the puddle could be better, and probably should, but don't forget that the ancients are always pictured as arrogants.
and they were at war and under siege.
Swiss Army ship
it's all what you said.
it's overpowered.
it has stupid weaknesses.
and it would be easy for the ancients to create versions that are more taylored to specific tasks. not "one size fits it all".
but on the other hand: the ancients made a spaceship, that wasn't airtight.
that's quite stupid, isn't it?
it all reflects the stupidity of the ancients. the arrogance of them, etc. they did not even think about having a failsafe for anything.
Yeah they should be like the tin foil "Runabouts" in star trek One hit and they explode. WTF are you talking about "Too Powerful" ????
Actually, it WAS too powerful... for what it was. It's space vs potency: SAK's are masterpieces, but still not ideal blades to make dugout canoes with. Similarly, the basic ships could've done all those same FUNCTIONS, but to get the ABILITY LEVELS shown, you'd need specialized versions that size or bigger.
Yeah low key agree Atlatls is better.
But no toilet on Jumper.
What? Really? Are you sure? What about the episode Midstation, didn´t they stayethree weeks in there or so?
@@hundetuem yes. Maybe a bucket...and 3 times Zat Gun.
@@Slumbert oh boy!
So? They're not intended for missions that take THAT long. I mean, my car doesn't have a toilet in it either, and I'm not complaining.
@@John73John true, I believe ancients just went down on a planet and visited the woods with toiletpaper.....
No, not powerful enough. They were finally swarmed by wraith!!
I´d like them to have a fridge and a TV. Perhaps some hammocks. For long flights ... I mean so the pilots can switch shifts and get some rest.