I never understood why people online say "bring back bullying!" .. it never left?? In fact it has gotten 10 times worse. Why is everyone so obnoxious omg lol
The people who say "bring back bullying" were probably the ones doing the bullying all throughout school and either now feel like they're being "oppressed" because someone called them out ONE TIME or don't understand that the physical and verbal abuse they inflicted on others WAS bullying. Some people genuinely have a very narrow idea of what "bullying" is and think it's just the cliche "Stealing lunch money" and "Shoving kids in lockers" shit.
I wish people didn’t say “bullying works.” I see people saying stuff like “I was bullied and it fixed me 🤷🏾♀️” it ruined you and you’re afraid to admit that. I was also bullied. It didn’t fix me, it hurt me. So much. Same things for celebrities. Millie Bobby Brown is a prime example of being bullied off the internet and having an old joke being attached to her. People would literally BRAG about making her deactivate her twitter when she was 13. And most bullied people don’t deserve it. Shame and disappointment are better methods. 👍
No Literally. I’ve had friends who have so willingly told me “some people just need to get bullied” which has always rubbed me the wrong way especially because I doubt they’ve ever actually experienced bullying in their lives. And of course every single one of them ended up bullying me too soooo.
Bullying DID make me a stronger and better version of myself though. I'm very glad I went through those things like micro aggressions in school. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone and granted the bullying I received was more in a passive way rather than active.
That original Yours Truly album cover is giving Nickelodeon. It doesn’t look like an album by Ariana Grande, it looks more like an album by Cat Valentine.
Fr like I remember back then I asked myself "Is this really Ariana Grande or is Ariana still going to change her artist name to cat Valentine since this is literally Cat coded." Like I was so confused why she was so Cat but it said "Ariana Grande"
i hate this phrase, it's total bullshit. bullying kills people, and i've seen people use "bullying works" as an excuse to be homophobic SO MANY times, where they're just saying it's a good thing someone looks/acts 'less gay' now. plus the idea that public backlash is the same thing as bullying just makes no sense. ugly ass term in my opinion. bullying doesn't help shit. edit: to be clear, i'm not trying to brush off public backlash as nothing, 'fans' can be absolutely vile when they don't get their way and it can become online bullying really quick, but just because an artist's creative vision changes to be more popular/higher quality sometimes doesn't mean that this behaviour is okay or helpful, and i think people are pretending it "works" more that it actually does to justify online harassment.
I think constructive criticism is okay, but I HATE the "bullying works" phrase. People need to understand that you don't need to bully an artist in order to critique their work. Bullying is never okay. Even "constructive criticism" has a grey area. When does it become bullying? Is it really necessary? Are you criticizing the work, or the person? Is the person hurting themselves or others with their work? Will the criticism actually help the artist grow and improve? Would you be okay with the criticism if it was said to you and you were in their shoes? There are many factors to consider.
Definitely agree that the phrasing of "bullying works" sucks, is inaccurate, and allows for things like harrassment and hate to happen. I think critique, especially for mass released media, is good but also unstoppable. I would also agree that, most times (not all though), "constructive criticism" of a person is unsolicited and unwarranted.
Yeah i get your commentary on criticism. Imo, sometimes when people give unsolicited advice its not necessarily that i think its wrong or right, i just think its fucking annoying. Like yeah, we get it, you think you know better and you like to stroke your own ego 🙄 and that shit can easily get toxic and turn from a constructive thing to actually damaging.
the fact that people on TikTok were calling Taylor misogynistic and all kinds of bad stuff for not giving Lana a verse but later Lana came out and said Taylor actually wanted her to sing the last verse but she felt like the song was perfect on its own so she just vocalized......... like why are we so quick to jump on conclusions?
One thing I noticed is that these gay men are more misogynistic than others. They constantly put women against eachother and they want pop stars t sexualise themselves. The amount of hate Taylor received from some white gays Charli xcx fans for releasing voice memo is crazy. What's funny is that Taylor would have gotten no 1 without those digital downloads
I think the backlash could have been less if the marketing for it was different tbh. Feat Lana makes it sound like there is a verse she would be singing.
@@saturnsextilevenushow else would you name the song? if she didn’t say ‘featuring Lana Del Rey’ then people would be mad because ‘OMG Lana sang on this song and Taylor didn’t even give her credit!!!!’
It's the fact that Taylor Swift isn't the perfect idealized celebrity given some things but people are just grasping straws atp especially by accusing her of chart blocking for releasing different versions of her song as if her peers haven't released much more versions of the songs than she did and it isn't one of the most common tactic of charting in music industry. I understand genuine criticism but someone needs to check on the bitter folks going around wishing she was de@d because they don't like her music (saw someone saying they wished she were de@d after 2017 because she is too dominating in the industry)
Sonic fan, here. What happened with the Paramount film wasn't just bullying. It was over a decade of lackluster projects from Sega and even more decades of video game movies that never did justice to the source material. Sonic The Hedgehog(2020) is a film that changed the way video game adaptations are made. It showed the general public that this genre can create either genuine art like The Last of Us or fun engaging flicks like The Super Mario Movie.
I don't think it was that good. I think when it came out and what the IP was made people believe it was good. The sonic movie like a 6/10 in all honesty, SEGA and Sonic fans were just starved of decent content. But that's all Sonic was, decent. I think this is proven by the fact that the sequel is subpar, especially with the political statements it is affiliated with.
@holyfool5605 I still had fun with the sequel, and was genuinely invested in the story and the characters, and even moved in the emotional beats and the climax. And I wasn't a sonic fan back then, like at all, he was barely in my radar. I think both movies are equally mediocre artistically, yet surprisingly effective.
@@JDdr86 yeah i think you can tell when there's love put behind it which is why the sonic movies still have gravitas. that being said u should really check out other sonic media. some things like the shows and the comics and even fanzines could put the movies to shame in my opinion
Bullying never works, yeah i'm also including the ones who bully disguised as a form of "criticism". Because, it left a scar that will never go away no matter how long
No. Bullying is bad and nobody deserves it. Instead, I would give someone a suggestion or maybe say "well, as your fan, I don't think this cover looks good". As someone who was bullied multiple times, I will never do the same thing to others.
I think it tends to happen with women more because male artists don’t tend to deal with the same perfectionism from audiences? Like, okay. Dipping into my feminism bag a little bit here but it’s the whole thing about men as subjects and women as objects, right? Men are identified with, women are gazed at. So male artists end up with followings because of their ability to bring you in as a subject-and how they look as an object is less important. Meanwhile, female artists are constantly conscious of, and subject to criticism for, how they look to others on the outside.
one thing about bullying works!! it didnt work for the brat rollout!! so many people were begging charli to change the cover or announce an alternate cover or whatever but now its a worldwide phenomenon - u see lime green or that slim arial font and u know its brat. such a smart move and so so grateful charli didnt give into the "bullying" and fan demand bc its such a power move and it works so well in her favour, its a real aesthetic and its just iconic! even camila cabello "took inspiration" from that minimalist idea and incorporated it into her new album promo too
"I would liek to unannounce my debut" - Beomhan Just from the way He announced It and it being a Notes App you can really see how it got to him bad... Bullying is not okay, especially when is supposed to be hurtful and destructive.
I really like the shark in the water cover for radical optimism :\ Like, obviously she is being radically optimistic despite potentially dying from a shark, its not hard to guess at a glance lmao
It feels like people have just completetly lost any understanding of symbolism and metaphor and interpretation beyond face value. The relation between the title and the image on the cover of "Radical Optimism" is not even that hard to work out, once you think about it a little, like you said. But people took one look at it and dismissed it as nonsensical instead of even trying to understand what it meant. We are living in fundamentally incurious and anti-intellectual times I'm afraid :/
It’s one thing to listen to general feedback from your fans and another to allow your fans to dominate how you portray your art and thinking they’re allowed input in your personal life, now fans are too comfortable just telling artists what to do bc they think they know better, and then it breeds resentment in the artist that any criticism is just harassment and bullying
There's feedback, such as saying, "Hey, Kids, Spelling is Fun. is cringe." Then there is bullying, where a person is picked on for who they are to the point where a person's self-esteem is deeply affected, as it was with me as a child. We need to know the difference and call things for what they are.
i used to work at a suicide/bullying prevention non-profit and it was deeply sad just how many young adults of all types would come in to say bullying was actually helpful to them to “stop being cringe”(some did donate) specifically in that wording. before that i thought it was a mostly internet-based sentiment
I hate this “cringe” thing. It actually gets on my nerves. It could mean so many different things and be from showing autistic or other neurodivergent traits to just being into different hobbies and not be afraid to be kinda “weird” I kind of find this whole thing sad/pathetic. Judging people has gotten way worse. I think this is definitely a gen zish thing and as a gen z I think we have regressed in some weird ways. (Agism, lookism, accepting people even if they are “weird” The whole thing gets on my nerves. I grew up with a bunch of my millennial cousins and they seem to have a bit more of a healthy attitude regarding themselves and what they enjoy/do because they don’t label everything as “cringe”
I don't think people really know what constructive criticism really is. Constructive criticism is when you give criticism in order to make a product improve. It doesn't attack the person and doesn't insult the person. It focuses on the issues and where it might need improvement. Destructive criticism aka "bullying" usually is not about improving anything, but rather ridiculing for the sake of drama. And it is usually accompanied by harassment and obsession with trying to take something or someone down. This form of criticism is enough to end lives and make people withdraw from the public rather than improve on their craft.
I don't listen to Dua but I loved the original Radical Optimism cover. I love the irony in it but I definitely don't think her music is...radical enough to match the cheekiness of the cover art
When you’re being bullied you’re crumbling, struggling to keep yourself together. That’s not beauty, it’s misery… Yet, when you’re confident in yourself, your true colors can shine.
Also, just to mention another instance, Taylor had to remove a scene from the ‘Anti-Hero’ music video where the weight scale said ‘fat’ when she stood on it.
@@kd_16420 Fr. They completely missed the point of that scene too. How is a clip that clearly implies that having that unhealthy obsession with weight is bad mean that they're supporting it? It's so stupid.
That's not what people were complaining about. People were saying the imagery of a tall, blonde, thin, billionaire standard of beauty calling herself fat increases stigma for actually fat people, whether it was her intention to display her inner conflict or not.
another example would be "Hold The Girl" by Rina Sawayama which initially had a different album cover with Rina wearing what appeared to be a large balloon dress which received negative reception from fans thinking she looked like a water douche and thought the single covers from the era were much more superior than the official cover chosen. On the album's 1st Year Anniversary though the cover would later on be changed to the cover used for the album's title track
They can bully the studio to fix Sonic, they can bully Bloober into bullying Konami to actually do the right things with Silent Hill 2, and it worked these both times. Maybe you're right and it is working almost too well lol. However if you're familiar with those fanbases, they're toxic toxic af.
I will make it my life's mission to comment this on every video I come in contact with that discusses Dua's "stage presence": First of all, I think that the whole concept of stage presence is a weird one, as well as the fact that we obviously have different standards for male and female performers which is annoying. Secondly, the internet ran with 1-2 viral clips of that poor woman while she was on an insane run of back to back shows for months if not years in the early stages of her career and bullied her relentlessly over them. I actually saw her in the Fall of 2017 (her debut album had just come out in the summer of that year) and the concert was hella fun! She gave vocals, she gave energy, everyone had the best time. It would've never occurred to me to call her "lacking" in any department. That said, of course she still improved in many ways since then which is fine and which artists should do if they hold themselves to a high standard and if plan to have a long lasting career. But overall I think the whole "give us nothing" meme was unnecessarily taken too far and ended up being quite mean.
You can see as well as hear it in the album evolution, leading up to Sweetener which matched the tone shift of her headshot being in colour for the first time, and upside down. It wouldn’t have been as impactful if Yours Truly had been that first cover.
With the album covers it kind of looks like a marketing trick at this point. Get “bad press” towards the album for a “bad” cover afterwards “salvaging” your relationship with your fans by giving them what they want. And more versions = more sales = higher chart placement. This isn’t for every album obviously, but rn it just seems like a tactic they’re using.
I agree with you. Having worked in animation it's impossible to rework on a 3D model and re animate a whole movie in only 1 year. It was definitely a set up to create outrage, then making themselves look good for "caring about criticism."
@@fleur_999 it's not impossible that this is true, but is it really "impossible" to rework a 3d model and reanimate it in 1 year? that just doesn't sound right
7:13 this supposed viral tweet is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. brat is one of the most successful and viral (hate using that word twice in a row, actually) album campaigns in a while. The unconventional cover was meant to be provocative and polarizing and in that way has reached iconic status so fast, in my opinion. The radical optimism cover (to me) is very stunning and different, especially with no words on it. Then the official - or at least most prominent version of eternal sunshine is beautiful as well as meaningful, bc Ariana is quite literally leaning on herself. When it comes to Taylor... I think the cover is fine, but let's not act like TS is known for extraordinary album covers anyway. Like, her first three albums look so damn similar that I can't even tell them apart.
I feel like bullying gives people a sense of power. To get back at someone, often on the anonymous mask of the internet where people get bolder and harsher, they want to strike at these “powerful” women and people to feel like they have a piece of their power…far more than help the victims of anyone these “powerful” women and movies and whatnot have apparently hurt.
Taylor was also bullied to change the scale scene in the Anti-Hero video, which was so disgusting to do to someone who has an ED who was using this imagery to express how they feel.
And brat should not be included in that album cover tweet because it grew on most people and was strategic rage bait that helped her marketing and branding
I think another example of bullying working was when ARTMS debuted with Virtual Angel and released a music video that was every epileptics worst nightmare. They got so much flack for the video, that they released the “human eye version” a day later.
I honestly think they planned on releasing the "human eye version", given how fast it was posted after the original MV If it was posted due to backlash, they would have probably took the og MV down. I think it was an artistic decision to post both the epileptic version and the human eye version. The original MV is very hard to watch, even for non epiletic people and that's the point. It fits into the concept of angels as kind of "uncanny" beings, just like the rise of popularity for "biblically acruate angels". Was it a poor marketing decision ? yes. Was this decision hated ? yes. Was it planned ? absolutely. Do I think this MV still holds merits in an artistic way ? yes 😇
idk if i would consider it bullying working bc it seemed planned. editing and uploading a music video isn’t quick. Also i’m not epileptic, but i watched a few scenes and it triggered a migraine. People were legit having eye and head pain.
Instead of bullying their favourite artist,why can they just ask"May I give a suggestion or recommendation?" Because I think it can create mutual respect between two parties.
I get the argument that fans are the consumers, so they should be able to react to the art how they react. However, fans are just that CONSUMERS and I think with social media and the access people have give them a false sense of entitlement on the art. I understand listening and building connections to fans, but is the artist's job to do that and cross that line?
i wonder if thats becoming or will become a marketing move, not the artists themselves but probably the label drops a bad album cover on purpose so the internet riots and then they "change" it😭😭
a thing to keep in mind is that when studios redo scenes like with sonic, the staff aren't always paid for the extra work. (No, they're not being paid loads to begin with)
For the eternal sunshine cover - we’re not actually sure if she did change it, BUT she did announce that that it was the main cover in the same post as teasing the alternative ones, and it was also the cover on streaming services + iTunes before the album was released. (I believe it changed a few days before the release?). The cover is also listed as the standard cover for the CD release, so she might’ve been referring to that? But we don’t know. I think the main theory right now is that that WAS meant to be the main cover, with the alternatives for the physical releases, and then she changed her mind, either because of fan feedback or just because she thought the current main cover fitted the album better.
uhm... there is a simple solution problem for artists. Stop asking for fans opinions before you take decisions on your art. (like putting 2 different album covers and fans deciding for you). Let them eat up whatever you serve them. whether they like it or not, they will get with the programme.
I like how some people that do colour analysis are actually pointing out that at least with celebs, it’s not always about looking most flattering - it’s often about what kind of look one is aiming for, what story they are trying to tell For the average person consuming that content, their objective may be dressing better but for a celebrity that’s probably an actress/singer/etc., they are a part of a creative team that is executing a idea. Both objectives are valid but are ultimately very different There are also a lot of girls and women speaking up about the differing beauty standards and makeup trends in different parts of the world, that none are inherently better and it’s a cultural difference. In that way, I do see the girlies consistently running checks and balances on each other and that gives me hope
Exactly!! Also, we don’t HAVE to like/ wear something cause it’s flattering- like damn we can just wear a color/ or a piece bc we like it and it makes us happy. Not everything is always for everyone else, but I suspect this “color analysis trend”, while some colors may suit more complexions than others based on color theory- it’s definitely just another thing tied into marketing/ capitalism for suuuure
@@naomi.cannibalas a part of the East Asian diaspora who follows mostly non-wнite creators, I think we have this complicated relationship with advertising because we spent so much of our lives not being seen. It’s only very recent that anyone that is part of a marginalized group has been directly marketed to and it’s honestly still not that prevalent in traditional media. I think these people understand that on some level but generally, I don’t think it comes from a malicious place One of the biggest positives I have seen coming out of this is that it forces creators to address different skin across the board because only doing pale skin is no longer enough because the consumers collectively have our foot on their necks. A really good example of this is the Korean company of the viral Tir Tir cushion foundation expanding their shade range to accommodate their darker complected customers not just in the US but in places like Southeast/South Asia where people want to use their product. If something like colour theory/colour analysis holds water, it has to be able to be applied across the board to include all of us and the content creators I follow show their understanding of the material by being able to show examples on different skin colours. Being able to find a content creator showing the 4 colour seasons on someone that looks like me or you isn’t something that yielded a lot of results on social media a decade ago Granted, this can easily lead to overconsumption l, especially for young people just coming into their own, I have complicated feelings about it because don’t we deserve to be centered and given options in the pursuit of beauty (which I think is absolutely essential to the human experience)?
I’m so glad you took on this topic for discussion. I get so annoyed at the really vocally critical parts of fandoms because they really do start to dogpile and get messy. I don’t know how so many people got the idea that their opinion should be followed all the time. Let artists be artists and accept that not everything is about you or for you, and that’s ok. Constructive criticism and calling a star out for truly harmful behavior is fine, but so often the feedback is so whiny. For example, there are phrases from several songs in the Taylor Swift fandom that people call out as cringe or whatever and want her to change. We just got another dose of it with her song So High School on TTPD similar to the “spelling is fun” line in ME!! (which I love for all its poppy cheery fun). And it drives me nuts because who is the songwriter? Taylor. And that’s what she wrote. “Spelling is fun” totally fit the vibe of the song and people were ridiculous about it so she cut it which I was bummed about. Even when there are stylistic choices or lyrics or whatever that I’m not a fan of, I’d never ask the artist to change it because I’m sure there are fans out there that really do vibe with it. Anyway, sorry for the rant 😂 I was just so glad to see this video and always love your thoughtful commentary and examples. I cannot imagine how hard it is to be a celebrity or other public figure in this day and age. The tabloids were (and are) bad but social media is a whole other ballgame.
"Bullying works" is the updated "It’s okay to spank/hit your kids when they do something wrong", and people who claim "Bullying DID help me grow a thicker skin/become stronger" are the same people who would say "Well my parents used to spank/beat me, and I turned out fine!" Edit: And for the bad faith actors and weirdos out there: No! Criticism and "holding people accountable" are NOT the same as BULLYING!!! You're also not "cool" or deserve praise for bullying a studio into changing the appearance for Sonic in the trailers for the movie, because all you did was encourage them to force the artists below them into stressful crunch time so they could get a quick turn around on the CGI and ensure that more "fans" would be lining up to give the studio their money to see the film, money which the artists and underlings working on the film will barely see any of, as they float from job to job to keep a roof over their head while the studio executives, producers, directors, and actors get to stroll down red carpets wearing thousands of dollars in clothes and accessories, and can have their personal chauffers drive their expensive luxury cars back to their mansions and mega-mansions when the after parties wrap.
idk if it’s true but megan thee stallion changing her new album cover because people hated it online also radical optimism is one of my favorite album covers I think people are just too chronically online with that one
Great video! Many thoughts: The album cover changes makes me wonder will Ice Spice stand ten toes down on her Y2K album cover. I saw someone on Twitter photoshopped revisions and while it looked way better, that’s taking it a step too far for audience participation I honestly like Dua’s album cover in the sense that it as a photograph really lives up to the title Radical Optimism. Like to look a stark head on and call that optimistic pleases my art historian brain Another good example of audience feedback revision is the song Yosemite by Travis Scott. Nav’s verse was so low and people complained so it got corrected and rereleased.
I don’t really like when artists change their album covers because they don’t come off as self assured. I would prefer them to at least give an explanation why they chose the album cover. It would make me feel like they’re intentional about their work and have creative control. When they’re bullied into changing “their” art, it feels like it wasn’t the artists idea to begin with… it was their labels decision. On another note, at best, these cover changes come off as if they were testing the waters and seeking creative guidance from their fans. As an artist your job is to move fans with your work, not let fans move your work. At worse, It also makes me feel like bad covers were on purpose because we all know backlash can generate more buzz
The word that they're looking for is critique, but they don't have a thesaurus so they just picked a word that makes them look a little less intelligent.
I think we should draw a line between bullying and constructive criticism. If audiences/fans have something negative to say about your art they are entilted to do so since they pay money, time and attention to you. Getting personal, however, is never justifiable.
The problem with ME! Was that Taylor had finally begun to feel like she was writing more mature music on reputation (including discussing more lewd topics in more detail than she ever had before. Not super raunchy, but more than her past). Then, in the behind the scenes for ME! She is literally talking about making a song for kids. Like what? It seemed she was just scared of falling off and tried to catch ch a new audience
Very interesting video. I always strive to provide productive criticism if I ever don't like something. It's a shame with this bullying. And I also noticed nowadays a lot of artists are just following what the algorithm/their fans/contract/statistics of what works want and not doing what they want. I don't know how different it was back in the day as I'm a fan of older artists but don't know everything (maybe this could have been happening but in a smaller degree compared to today) , but I personally feel a artist put their life and career on the line if they wanted to do something that they believed in vs today's artists they don't. That's why I really like older musicians. They put their heart and soul into everything they did, vs today I don't feel that from these artists. Like today's artists maybe started with it, but once they are signed or popular they lose their originality or just never had it.
Instead of fans just appreciating the artists for who they are, (I don’t mean accepting cringe, trash, basic, etc. behavior) they go out of their way to diminish, judge & ridicule them. That’s not a fan. Y’all wonder why they be so depressed!!! 🤦🏽♀️
Another Taylor Swift example: Removing the scale reading "fat" from the Antihero music video because people were calling it fatphobic. I wish she had kept it in, I feel like people were really missing the point there.
This is not bullying, this is feedback/criticism, I don't see personal attacks on them, people have buying power and they use it,so labels want their artists to be profitable.
Ms. Naomi, I would be so interested to see you make vid on the history of payola. Rn people are talking Sabrina Carpenter and Billie Eilish’s new song getting playlisted everywhere on Spotify. They’re on the big pop ones, daily mixes, all over the auto play, and everywhere else. Like what is happening, I need to know your reaction.
1:40 Shout out to Tyson Hesse, the guy who redesigned Sonic for the movie. He’s a great artist and was already an extremely prominent figure in the Sonic franchise for years. I highly recommend checking out his work.
another taylor example was her scale scene from the Anti-Hero music video, it's a shame how some viewers may have misinterpreted it even though everyone's experience with self-image and their body is different
Megan thee stallions recent album art can fall under this category I think. She either released the alternate first or decided to go with a different version (great decision IMO)
I really love your takes on this btw - I think in general artists should just stick to what their idea was bc when it seems like they’re so willing to adjust based on feedback whether it be them or their label, it makes you doubt the body of work more or just see it less as a piece of art rather than something to sell. I think a true artist just releasing music bc they believe in their art would likely never change their work bc of anyone else’s opinion. I think of people like Lana who generally could care less about the artwork of her music (her picsart covers) but it’s almost like that makes the music speak more for itself if that makes sense
I also really agree with the colours thing. tbh I don't care what suits me, if I like it and the colour makes me happy I'm gonna wear it! I don't have to see how it looks on me the majority of the time I just see the colour when I look down and if I like that then what someone else thinks isn't gonna stop me from wearing it.
All artists do the same thing just bc one does it better than everyone else doesn’t make it shitty lol everyone plays the chart game big deal, one just happens to be a chart demon, theyre not going to stop doing their job to give your favs a chance to chart high, that’s not how this works lol
Great video! I'm going to be 100% honest, I am new to fandoms. I like music from the main pop girls as they put it. Taylor, Ariana, Dua, etc... But I have no idea about all the hints Tay gives, and all the drama with the album covers. I watch videos like yours and from others to be informed. And this is the first time I am hearing about any of these things. There are people online talking about the Sonic movie, like the design was so bad, no one could be that stupid. Like was it on purpose for publicity? But at the same time they made that horrible Cats movie (never saw it but heard it was bad) and so yeah maybe it was for real. But seeing the horrible Ari album cover, thank god they complained. The new cover is much better. I feel like we are being too easy on these artists. It's not really bullying, it's called having standards. They go to a concert and you see Dua doing the pencil sharpener dance, like WTF. Fans have a right to complain. Like you said why go to a concert when they are giving a bad performance. Exactly! Many times in the art/design community, someone could be a talented singer but not dancer. Or vice versa. Not everyone is good at everything. Music artists may not have the best visual sense. I'm glad the albums were redone. Not bullying imo but just having standards. Like the guy who can't sing. His fans are having standards. Why buy a song or be a fan of someone who can't sing? I would not call it bullying again it's just having standards.
Regarding the album covers maybe instead of changing them and releasing different variants, it would be nice to vary them. For example, from one photoshoot the artist and its creative team can choose different final pictures for different media, one more detailed for physical copies and different ones for streaming medias… but keeping them in the same aesthetic, color scheme so its still recognizable.
With the dua lipa and megan covers.. like people want things to be so literal. They want “eras” and hexcodes for certain colours and the simplest most straight forward metaphors to the point where it’s just branding and less art. I hate it 😭
1. love that you pointed out that fan write-ins and response has always been happening and has even caused changes in media. I absolutely agree, especially in that social media has made it easier for "normies" outside the fanbase to see and allowed for a greater volume of input. 2. I know it's not the point of the video but I definitely agree with the tiktoker on hating the color match trend. I found it especially disappointing when a body positive influencer I follow did a video with her and her team on it and some of them came away with the idea that they should wear less of a color they love or feel comfortable in because it wasn't flattering by the standards of the color theorist or the test.
In response to @15:40 - @15:58 I think men equally get bullied. A few people that come to mind would be Johnnie Gilbert who gets hate for his appearance/style, there’s DREAM who infamously got trending on twitter “HE’S UGLY” when he face revealed, JoCat is an animator who recently has been getting bullied for their animation “I like Girls” which is a Lizzo parody/love letter to liking girls and not having a type. CaseOh gets weight-shamed all the time he’s the internets punching bag for fat jokes but he leans into it i guess? (ik james charles is problematic but let’s suspend our knowledge of him and travel back in time when he was still an innocent teeny bopper) James Charles got insanely bullied for his exploration of makeup as well as his singing (yes he sucks in the present but nevertheless he was also a victim. two things can be true at once!) And the absolute most vile bullying I have seen is towards “Chris Chan” (once against STARTING FROM THE BEGINNING)
also im chronically online mb these are all internet celebs whoops. Famous Famous ppl I can think of is SEVERAL star wars actors (one was a little boy), Brendan fraisure, Jonah Hill, Jason mamoa, i guess drake….I cant think of any musicians tho OOF…maybe Michael Jackson for his vitiligo
I never understood why people online say "bring back bullying!" .. it never left?? In fact it has gotten 10 times worse. Why is everyone so obnoxious omg lol
The people who say "bring back bullying" were probably the ones doing the bullying all throughout school and either now feel like they're being "oppressed" because someone called them out ONE TIME or don't understand that the physical and verbal abuse they inflicted on others WAS bullying. Some people genuinely have a very narrow idea of what "bullying" is and think it's just the cliche "Stealing lunch money" and "Shoving kids in lockers" shit.
they meant bullying as in harassing which is wrong to begin with.
It’s because the newer generation is softer and America put on several anti cyber bullying campaigns compared to previous gens
@@mynameisreallycool1 yeah
@@AH-sc8beThe new generation is soft because they don’t want to be bullied online??
ah yes my favorite pop diva, sonic the hedgehog
the icon to end all icons i fear
No but sonic music is genuinely so good him being a pop diva isn’t too far fetched
Sonic has a lot of legit BOPS
Didn’t michael jackson work uncredited on some of the OG games? Like sonic 3 i think?
@@krisismav yessss that's more or less true. MJ was heavy into Sonic
I wish people didn’t say “bullying works.” I see people saying stuff like “I was bullied and it fixed me 🤷🏾♀️” it ruined you and you’re afraid to admit that. I was also bullied. It didn’t fix me, it hurt me. So much.
Same things for celebrities. Millie Bobby Brown is a prime example of being bullied off the internet and having an old joke being attached to her. People would literally BRAG about making her deactivate her twitter when she was 13. And most bullied people don’t deserve it. Shame and disappointment are better methods. 👍
Literally dog piling and harassing people will always be disturbing to me like what happened to getting a hobby?
No Literally. I’ve had friends who have so willingly told me “some people just need to get bullied” which has always rubbed me the wrong way especially because I doubt they’ve ever actually experienced bullying in their lives. And of course every single one of them ended up bullying me too soooo.
EXACTLY
Bullying DID make me a stronger and better version of myself though. I'm very glad I went through those things like micro aggressions in school. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone and granted the bullying I received was more in a passive way rather than active.
@@bratzscene3131 not for me. it affected my mental health badly.
That original Yours Truly album cover is giving Nickelodeon. It doesn’t look like an album by Ariana Grande, it looks more like an album by Cat Valentine.
To me it gave childbride, which actually, come to think of it, maybe that's very Nickelodeon.
@@TheSkinnyZyesss bro it’s such a weird vibe
@@TheSkinnyZYes, that's terrible.
Fr like I remember back then I asked myself "Is this really Ariana Grande or is Ariana still going to change her artist name to cat Valentine since this is literally Cat coded." Like I was so confused why she was so Cat but it said "Ariana Grande"
i hate this phrase, it's total bullshit. bullying kills people, and i've seen people use "bullying works" as an excuse to be homophobic SO MANY times, where they're just saying it's a good thing someone looks/acts 'less gay' now. plus the idea that public backlash is the same thing as bullying just makes no sense. ugly ass term in my opinion. bullying doesn't help shit.
edit: to be clear, i'm not trying to brush off public backlash as nothing, 'fans' can be absolutely vile when they don't get their way and it can become online bullying really quick, but just because an artist's creative vision changes to be more popular/higher quality sometimes doesn't mean that this behaviour is okay or helpful, and i think people are pretending it "works" more that it actually does to justify online harassment.
𝖤𝗑𝖺𝖼𝗍𝗅𝗒!!!!!
agreed! people should know the difference between bullying and criticize (what actually happened in the exemples)
I think constructive criticism is okay, but I HATE the "bullying works" phrase. People need to understand that you don't need to bully an artist in order to critique their work. Bullying is never okay. Even "constructive criticism" has a grey area. When does it become bullying? Is it really necessary? Are you criticizing the work, or the person? Is the person hurting themselves or others with their work? Will the criticism actually help the artist grow and improve? Would you be okay with the criticism if it was said to you and you were in their shoes? There are many factors to consider.
Definitely agree that the phrasing of "bullying works" sucks, is inaccurate, and allows for things like harrassment and hate to happen. I think critique, especially for mass released media, is good but also unstoppable. I would also agree that, most times (not all though), "constructive criticism" of a person is unsolicited and unwarranted.
Yeah i get your commentary on criticism. Imo, sometimes when people give unsolicited advice its not necessarily that i think its wrong or right, i just think its fucking annoying. Like yeah, we get it, you think you know better and you like to stroke your own ego 🙄 and that shit can easily get toxic and turn from a constructive thing to actually damaging.
Notice how they're mostly bullying women.
This
beomhan?
@@eimearc "mostly"
Funny how that always seems to happen
@@tojisenpai87 the comment was edited. It said "only woman" initially
the fact that people on TikTok were calling Taylor misogynistic and all kinds of bad stuff for not giving Lana a verse but later Lana came out and said Taylor actually wanted her to sing the last verse but she felt like the song was perfect on its own so she just vocalized......... like why are we so quick to jump on conclusions?
One thing I noticed is that these gay men are more misogynistic than others.
They constantly put women against eachother and they want pop stars t sexualise themselves.
The amount of hate Taylor received from some white gays Charli xcx fans for releasing voice memo is crazy. What's funny is that Taylor would have gotten no 1 without those digital downloads
Yeah & people just all of a sudden forgot I guess that phoebe Bridgers got plenty of lines on nothing new.
I think the backlash could have been less if the marketing for it was different tbh. Feat Lana makes it sound like there is a verse she would be singing.
@@saturnsextilevenushow else would you name the song? if she didn’t say ‘featuring Lana Del Rey’ then people would be mad because ‘OMG Lana sang on this song and Taylor didn’t even give her credit!!!!’
It's the fact that Taylor Swift isn't the perfect idealized celebrity given some things but people are just grasping straws atp especially by accusing her of chart blocking for releasing different versions of her song as if her peers haven't released much more versions of the songs than she did and it isn't one of the most common tactic of charting in music industry. I understand genuine criticism but someone needs to check on the bitter folks going around wishing she was de@d because they don't like her music (saw someone saying they wished she were de@d after 2017 because she is too dominating in the industry)
The original radical optimism cover makes perfect sense, she’s literally chillaxing in the pool with a shark that is definitely radical optimism
Yeah i completly agree with you! I quite love the cover as it was and there was no need to chanve it
Yes!! It’s great and original!
Same i was like.. what’s not to get? This is kinda a great cover
Bullying is bad, actually
Nah, if you put an “I love them/ no hate BUT” in front of it it’s okay actually!!
(This is a joke)
yes!!!! and there's a huge difference between bullying and criticize! criticism isn't wrong at all!
Wild that this needs to be said
It’s too easy to do when people can hide behind internet profiles.
Even critisism is not ok! You can give feed-back in a neutral, constructive way and not criticizing😉.
Sonic fan, here. What happened with the Paramount film wasn't just bullying. It was over a decade of lackluster projects from Sega and even more decades of video game movies that never did justice to the source material. Sonic The Hedgehog(2020) is a film that changed the way video game adaptations are made. It showed the general public that this genre can create either genuine art like The Last of Us or fun engaging flicks like The Super Mario Movie.
I don't think it was that good. I think when it came out and what the IP was made people believe it was good. The sonic movie like a 6/10 in all honesty, SEGA and Sonic fans were just starved of decent content. But that's all Sonic was, decent. I think this is proven by the fact that the sequel is subpar, especially with the political statements it is affiliated with.
@holyfool5605 I still had fun with the sequel, and was genuinely invested in the story and the characters, and even moved in the emotional beats and the climax. And I wasn't a sonic fan back then, like at all, he was barely in my radar. I think both movies are equally mediocre artistically, yet surprisingly effective.
@@JDdr86 yeah i think you can tell when there's love put behind it which is why the sonic movies still have gravitas. that being said u should really check out other sonic media. some things like the shows and the comics and even fanzines could put the movies to shame in my opinion
@@holyfool5605 The shows are on my Amazon watchlist.
Bullying never works, yeah i'm also including the ones who bully disguised as a form of "criticism". Because, it left a scar that will never go away no matter how long
Hmm...I think fair or constructive criticism gets often covered up by the crowd flicking in to drag the work.
No. Bullying is bad and nobody deserves it. Instead, I would give someone a suggestion or maybe say "well, as your fan, I don't think this cover looks good". As someone who was bullied multiple times, I will never do the same thing to others.
THIS👆🏽Finally!
I think it tends to happen with women more because male artists don’t tend to deal with the same perfectionism from audiences? Like, okay. Dipping into my feminism bag a little bit here but it’s the whole thing about men as subjects and women as objects, right? Men are identified with, women are gazed at. So male artists end up with followings because of their ability to bring you in as a subject-and how they look as an object is less important. Meanwhile, female artists are constantly conscious of, and subject to criticism for, how they look to others on the outside.
One word;
Insecurity.
Man I miss the likes of Joni Mitchell, Patti smith, those woman just need their guitars and themselves.
You are correct. I’ve thought about this as well
one thing about bullying works!! it didnt work for the brat rollout!! so many people were begging charli to change the cover or announce an alternate cover or whatever but now its a worldwide phenomenon - u see lime green or that slim arial font and u know its brat. such a smart move and so so grateful charli didnt give into the "bullying" and fan demand bc its such a power move and it works so well in her favour, its a real aesthetic and its just iconic! even camila cabello "took inspiration" from that minimalist idea and incorporated it into her new album promo too
"I would liek to unannounce my debut" - Beomhan
Just from the way He announced It and it being a Notes App you can really see how it got to him bad... Bullying is not okay, especially when is supposed to be hurtful and destructive.
I really like the shark in the water cover for radical optimism :\ Like, obviously she is being radically optimistic despite potentially dying from a shark, its not hard to guess at a glance lmao
It feels like people have just completetly lost any understanding of symbolism and metaphor and interpretation beyond face value. The relation between the title and the image on the cover of "Radical Optimism" is not even that hard to work out, once you think about it a little, like you said. But people took one look at it and dismissed it as nonsensical instead of even trying to understand what it meant. We are living in fundamentally incurious and anti-intellectual times I'm afraid :/
It’s also reflected in all the singles. Especially illusion. Bad situations faced with confidence and optimism
Removing "hey kids, spelling is fun!" was a MISTAKE, it made the song go from camp to bad, and I'll never forgive swifties for it.
When was it removed though?
I mourn the loss of it everyday.
Rest in peace, spelling
It’s one thing to listen to general feedback from your fans and another to allow your fans to dominate how you portray your art and thinking they’re allowed input in your personal life, now fans are too comfortable just telling artists what to do bc they think they know better, and then it breeds resentment in the artist that any criticism is just harassment and bullying
“What in the MS paint hell” had me weak 😭😭😭
There's feedback, such as saying, "Hey, Kids, Spelling is Fun. is cringe." Then there is bullying, where a person is picked on for who they are to the point where a person's self-esteem is deeply affected, as it was with me as a child. We need to know the difference and call things for what they are.
I'm 24y old and i was bullied for 10 years. This phrase makes me sick and if there's someone who actually believes it... go get some pro help.
i used to work at a suicide/bullying prevention non-profit and it was deeply sad just how many young adults of all types would come in to say bullying was actually helpful to them to “stop being cringe”(some did donate) specifically in that wording. before that i thought it was a mostly internet-based sentiment
I hate this “cringe” thing. It actually gets on my nerves. It could mean so many different things and be from showing autistic or other neurodivergent traits to just being into different hobbies and not be afraid to be kinda “weird” I kind of find this whole thing sad/pathetic. Judging people has gotten way worse.
I think this is definitely a gen zish thing and as a gen z I think we have regressed in some weird ways.
(Agism, lookism, accepting people even if they are “weird”
The whole thing gets on my nerves.
I grew up with a bunch of my millennial cousins and they seem to have a bit more of a healthy attitude regarding themselves and what they enjoy/do because they don’t label everything as “cringe”
I don't think people really know what constructive criticism really is. Constructive criticism is when you give criticism in order to make a product improve. It doesn't attack the person and doesn't insult the person. It focuses on the issues and where it might need improvement. Destructive criticism aka "bullying" usually is not about improving anything, but rather ridiculing for the sake of drama. And it is usually accompanied by harassment and obsession with trying to take something or someone down. This form of criticism is enough to end lives and make people withdraw from the public rather than improve on their craft.
I’m so sad about the me! Line, I loved singing “hey kids spelling is fun” sm and now that it’s gone the song feels a little less charming
I don't listen to Dua but I loved the original Radical Optimism cover. I love the irony in it but I definitely don't think her music is...radical enough to match the cheekiness of the cover art
When you’re being bullied you’re crumbling, struggling to keep yourself together. That’s not beauty, it’s misery…
Yet, when you’re confident in yourself, your true colors can shine.
Also, just to mention another instance, Taylor had to remove a scene from the ‘Anti-Hero’ music video where the weight scale said ‘fat’ when she stood on it.
Oh, I wasn’t aware of that one!
@@naomi.cannibal girl it was BAD. they were on twitter saying that she was promoting ED’s and being ‘pro ana’
@@kd_16420 Fr. They completely missed the point of that scene too. How is a clip that clearly implies that having that unhealthy obsession with weight is bad mean that they're supporting it? It's so stupid.
That's not what people were complaining about. People were saying the imagery of a tall, blonde, thin, billionaire standard of beauty calling herself fat increases stigma for actually fat people, whether it was her intention to display her inner conflict or not.
@@yoyodreit was a metaphor for body dysmorphia. Besides she herself suffered through an ED
another example would be "Hold The Girl" by Rina Sawayama which initially had a different album cover with Rina wearing what appeared to be a large balloon dress which received negative reception from fans thinking she looked like a water douche and thought the single covers from the era were much more superior than the official cover chosen. On the album's 1st Year Anniversary though the cover would later on be changed to the cover used for the album's title track
I got that douche vinyl. 😆
They can bully the studio to fix Sonic, they can bully Bloober into bullying Konami to actually do the right things with Silent Hill 2, and it worked these both times. Maybe you're right and it is working almost too well lol. However if you're familiar with those fanbases, they're toxic toxic af.
there is still a real part of me that believes sonic’s first design was marketing.
They are also irrelevant losers
I will make it my life's mission to comment this on every video I come in contact with that discusses Dua's "stage presence":
First of all, I think that the whole concept of stage presence is a weird one, as well as the fact that we obviously have different standards for male and female performers which is annoying.
Secondly, the internet ran with 1-2 viral clips of that poor woman while she was on an insane run of back to back shows for months if not years in the early stages of her career and bullied her relentlessly over them.
I actually saw her in the Fall of 2017 (her debut album had just come out in the summer of that year) and the concert was hella fun! She gave vocals, she gave energy, everyone had the best time. It would've never occurred to me to call her "lacking" in any department. That said, of course she still improved in many ways since then which is fine and which artists should do if they hold themselves to a high standard and if plan to have a long lasting career. But overall I think the whole "give us nothing" meme was unnecessarily taken too far and ended up being quite mean.
some artists are people pleasers and some are not. But bullying and constructive criticism is not the same and bullying shouldn’t be glorified.
𝖤𝗑𝖺𝖼𝗍𝗅𝗒.
Forever grateful for bullying Ariana into changing that hideous debut cover...it didn’t match the vibe of the album AT ALL.
idk how her label allowed it as the final product?? Like ??
It's the Lucinda cursive for me😭
Iconic😂😂😂
You can see as well as hear it in the album evolution, leading up to Sweetener which matched the tone shift of her headshot being in colour for the first time, and upside down. It wouldn’t have been as impactful if Yours Truly had been that first cover.
With the album covers it kind of looks like a marketing trick at this point. Get “bad press” towards the album for a “bad” cover afterwards “salvaging” your relationship with your fans by giving them what they want. And more versions = more sales = higher chart placement. This isn’t for every album obviously, but rn it just seems like a tactic they’re using.
The fifth harmony cover looks like the opening scene to a housewives episode 😂😂😂
I think the phrase is toxic though I was bullied and it didn’t work at all lol.
Criticism works is more appropriate. ☺️
Right. "Pushback works," maybe
The sonic thing definitely feels like a PR thing since it would take hella long to reanimate the entire film
And the final design is so perfect I don't understand how they got it so wrong at first and actually showed ppl as if it was the final product
ummm it *did* take a long time to reanimate, they literally delayed the movie a whole year specifically to have time to reanimate everything
@@vinnyfromvenus8188 less than 8 months to reanimate the entire films cgi and design and proportions?
I agree with you. Having worked in animation it's impossible to rework on a 3D model and re animate a whole movie in only 1 year. It was definitely a set up to create outrage, then making themselves look good for "caring about criticism."
@@fleur_999 it's not impossible that this is true, but is it really "impossible" to rework a 3d model and reanimate it in 1 year? that just doesn't sound right
7:13 this supposed viral tweet is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. brat is one of the most successful and viral (hate using that word twice in a row, actually) album campaigns in a while. The unconventional cover was meant to be provocative and polarizing and in that way has reached iconic status so fast, in my opinion. The radical optimism cover (to me) is very stunning and different, especially with no words on it. Then the official - or at least most prominent version of eternal sunshine is beautiful as well as meaningful, bc Ariana is quite literally leaning on herself. When it comes to Taylor... I think the cover is fine, but let's not act like TS is known for extraordinary album covers anyway. Like, her first three albums look so damn similar that I can't even tell them apart.
Brat era is so fun
I feel like bullying gives people a sense of power. To get back at someone, often on the anonymous mask of the internet where people get bolder and harsher, they want to strike at these “powerful” women and people to feel like they have a piece of their power…far more than help the victims of anyone these “powerful” women and movies and whatnot have apparently hurt.
Taylor was also bullied to change the scale scene in the Anti-Hero video, which was so disgusting to do to someone who has an ED who was using this imagery to express how they feel.
And brat should not be included in that album cover tweet because it grew on most people and was strategic rage bait that helped her marketing and branding
I think another example of bullying working was when ARTMS debuted with Virtual Angel and released a music video that was every epileptics worst nightmare. They got so much flack for the video, that they released the “human eye version” a day later.
I thought the human eye version was always meant to be released as a part of ARTMS lore? 😮
I honestly think they planned on releasing the "human eye version", given how fast it was posted after the original MV
If it was posted due to backlash, they would have probably took the og MV down. I think it was an artistic decision to post both the epileptic version and the human eye version. The original MV is very hard to watch, even for non epiletic people and that's the point. It fits into the concept of angels as kind of "uncanny" beings, just like the rise of popularity for "biblically acruate angels". Was it a poor marketing decision ? yes. Was this decision hated ? yes. Was it planned ? absolutely. Do I think this MV still holds merits in an artistic way ? yes 😇
idk if i would consider it bullying working bc it seemed planned. editing and uploading a music video isn’t quick. Also i’m not epileptic, but i watched a few scenes and it triggered a migraine. People were legit having eye and head pain.
The AI-generated teaser images were also controversial, and I’m glad they listened to the fans and now work with real artists and designers.
Instead of bullying their favourite artist,why can they just ask"May I give a suggestion or recommendation?"
Because I think it can create mutual respect between two parties.
I get the argument that fans are the consumers, so they should be able to react to the art how they react. However, fans are just that CONSUMERS and I think with social media and the access people have give them a false sense of entitlement on the art. I understand listening and building connections to fans, but is the artist's job to do that and cross that line?
i wonder if thats becoming or will become a marketing move, not the artists themselves but probably the label drops a bad album cover on purpose so the internet riots and then they "change" it😭😭
Bullying works until you find that good good self love and forgiveness of self ❤️ priceless
a thing to keep in mind is that when studios redo scenes like with sonic, the staff aren't always paid for the extra work. (No, they're not being paid loads to begin with)
The “Yours Truly” cover is cute but it is of low quality.
1st album is usually very challenging from the very beginning of their career.
For the eternal sunshine cover - we’re not actually sure if she did change it, BUT she did announce that that it was the main cover in the same post as teasing the alternative ones, and it was also the cover on streaming services + iTunes before the album was released. (I believe it changed a few days before the release?). The cover is also listed as the standard cover for the CD release, so she might’ve been referring to that? But we don’t know.
I think the main theory right now is that that WAS meant to be the main cover, with the alternatives for the physical releases, and then she changed her mind, either because of fan feedback or just because she thought the current main cover fitted the album better.
Dula Peep being a meme was hilarious, like yes, give us nothing!
But she gave us everything
uhm... there is a simple solution problem for artists. Stop asking for fans opinions before you take decisions on your art. (like putting 2 different album covers and fans deciding for you). Let them eat up whatever you serve them. whether they like it or not, they will get with the programme.
Before social media exist especially entertainment music,we as music fans only care about good music since 1980s until now.
I like how some people that do colour analysis are actually pointing out that at least with celebs, it’s not always about looking most flattering - it’s often about what kind of look one is aiming for, what story they are trying to tell
For the average person consuming that content, their objective may be dressing better but for a celebrity that’s probably an actress/singer/etc., they are a part of a creative team that is executing a idea. Both objectives are valid but are ultimately very different
There are also a lot of girls and women speaking up about the differing beauty standards and makeup trends in different parts of the world, that none are inherently better and it’s a cultural difference. In that way, I do see the girlies consistently running checks and balances on each other and that gives me hope
Exactly!! Also, we don’t HAVE to like/ wear something cause it’s flattering- like damn we can just wear a color/ or a piece bc we like it and it makes us happy. Not everything is always for everyone else, but I suspect this “color analysis trend”, while some colors may suit more complexions than others based on color theory- it’s definitely just another thing tied into marketing/ capitalism for suuuure
@@naomi.cannibalas a part of the East Asian diaspora who follows mostly non-wнite creators, I think we have this complicated relationship with advertising because we spent so much of our lives not being seen. It’s only very recent that anyone that is part of a marginalized group has been directly marketed to and it’s honestly still not that prevalent in traditional media. I think these people understand that on some level but generally, I don’t think it comes from a malicious place
One of the biggest positives I have seen coming out of this is that it forces creators to address different skin across the board because only doing pale skin is no longer enough because the consumers collectively have our foot on their necks. A really good example of this is the Korean company of the viral Tir Tir cushion foundation expanding their shade range to accommodate their darker complected customers not just in the US but in places like Southeast/South Asia where people want to use their product. If something like colour theory/colour analysis holds water, it has to be able to be applied across the board to include all of us and the content creators I follow show their understanding of the material by being able to show examples on different skin colours. Being able to find a content creator showing the 4 colour seasons on someone that looks like me or you isn’t something that yielded a lot of results on social media a decade ago
Granted, this can easily lead to overconsumption l, especially for young people just coming into their own, I have complicated feelings about it because don’t we deserve to be centered and given options in the pursuit of beauty (which I think is absolutely essential to the human experience)?
I’m so glad you took on this topic for discussion. I get so annoyed at the really vocally critical parts of fandoms because they really do start to dogpile and get messy. I don’t know how so many people got the idea that their opinion should be followed all the time. Let artists be artists and accept that not everything is about you or for you, and that’s ok. Constructive criticism and calling a star out for truly harmful behavior is fine, but so often the feedback is so whiny.
For example, there are phrases from several songs in the Taylor Swift fandom that people call out as cringe or whatever and want her to change. We just got another dose of it with her song So High School on TTPD similar to the “spelling is fun” line in ME!! (which I love for all its poppy cheery fun). And it drives me nuts because who is the songwriter? Taylor. And that’s what she wrote. “Spelling is fun” totally fit the vibe of the song and people were ridiculous about it so she cut it which I was bummed about. Even when there are stylistic choices or lyrics or whatever that I’m not a fan of, I’d never ask the artist to change it because I’m sure there are fans out there that really do vibe with it.
Anyway, sorry for the rant 😂 I was just so glad to see this video and always love your thoughtful commentary and examples. I cannot imagine how hard it is to be a celebrity or other public figure in this day and age. The tabloids were (and are) bad but social media is a whole other ballgame.
That sonic redesign literally saved the series, I’m not joking😭
Ava Max changing her diamonds and dancefloors cover is definititely the best example imo
Remind again, which was the old version and which is the new one?
"Hey kids, spelling is fun" is like the only point of the song? Cut it out and it's just a bad, boring pop song. At least with that line its funny.
"Bullying works" is the updated "It’s okay to spank/hit your kids when they do something wrong", and people who claim "Bullying DID help me grow a thicker skin/become stronger" are the same people who would say "Well my parents used to spank/beat me, and I turned out fine!"
Edit: And for the bad faith actors and weirdos out there: No! Criticism and "holding people accountable" are NOT the same as BULLYING!!!
You're also not "cool" or deserve praise for bullying a studio into changing the appearance for Sonic in the trailers for the movie, because all you did was encourage them to force the artists below them into stressful crunch time so they could get a quick turn around on the CGI and ensure that more "fans" would be lining up to give the studio their money to see the film, money which the artists and underlings working on the film will barely see any of, as they float from job to job to keep a roof over their head while the studio executives, producers, directors, and actors get to stroll down red carpets wearing thousands of dollars in clothes and accessories, and can have their personal chauffers drive their expensive luxury cars back to their mansions and mega-mansions when the after parties wrap.
“Uniform for fifth harmony” is hilarious
idk if it’s true but megan thee stallion changing her new album cover because people hated it online
also radical optimism is one of my favorite album covers I think people are just too chronically online with that one
Great video! Many thoughts:
The album cover changes makes me wonder will Ice Spice stand ten toes down on her Y2K album cover. I saw someone on Twitter photoshopped revisions and while it looked way better, that’s taking it a step too far for audience participation
I honestly like Dua’s album cover in the sense that it as a photograph really lives up to the title Radical Optimism. Like to look a stark head on and call that optimistic pleases my art historian brain
Another good example of audience feedback revision is the song Yosemite by Travis Scott. Nav’s verse was so low and people complained so it got corrected and rereleased.
I didnt know that was the original cover for "yours truly"😱
I don’t really like when artists change their album covers because they don’t come off as self assured. I would prefer them to at least give an explanation why they chose the album cover. It would make me feel like they’re intentional about their work and have creative control. When they’re bullied into changing “their” art, it feels like it wasn’t the artists idea to begin with… it was their labels decision.
On another note, at best, these cover changes come off as if they were testing the waters and seeking creative guidance from their fans. As an artist your job is to move fans with your work, not let fans move your work. At worse, It also makes me feel like bad covers were on purpose because we all know backlash can generate more buzz
The word that they're looking for is critique, but they don't have a thesaurus so they just picked a word that makes them look a little less intelligent.
I think there’s a way to be direct with tact. That’s something many need to learn, which is why bullying is out of hand now.
As a life long Lana fan I heard her loud and clear from the beginning. She was all over the track.
Love sonic just chilling in the thumbnail with everyone else
I think we should draw a line between bullying and constructive criticism. If audiences/fans have something negative to say about your art they are entilted to do so since they pay money, time and attention to you. Getting personal, however, is never justifiable.
The problem with ME! Was that Taylor had finally begun to feel like she was writing more mature music on reputation (including discussing more lewd topics in more detail than she ever had before. Not super raunchy, but more than her past). Then, in the behind the scenes for ME! She is literally talking about making a song for kids. Like what? It seemed she was just scared of falling off and tried to catch ch a new audience
“A canva clipart flower bed” 😂😂😂Im screaming
Very interesting video. I always strive to provide productive criticism if I ever don't like something. It's a shame with this bullying. And I also noticed nowadays a lot of artists are just following what the algorithm/their fans/contract/statistics of what works want and not doing what they want. I don't know how different it was back in the day as I'm a fan of older artists but don't know everything (maybe this could have been happening but in a smaller degree compared to today) , but I personally feel a artist put their life and career on the line if they wanted to do something that they believed in vs today's artists they don't. That's why I really like older musicians. They put their heart and soul into everything they did, vs today I don't feel that from these artists. Like today's artists maybe started with it, but once they are signed or popular they lose their originality or just never had it.
14:57 I completely agree it feels like a huge scam. It’s very limiting & I saw just wear what ever color u like
Great video. Lots of examples of when bullying works. I'd love to see some examples where an artist succumbed to bullying and it was for the worse
Instead of fans just appreciating the artists for who they are, (I don’t mean accepting cringe, trash, basic, etc. behavior) they go out of their way to diminish, judge & ridicule them. That’s not a fan. Y’all wonder why they be so depressed!!! 🤦🏽♀️
Another Taylor Swift example: Removing the scale reading "fat" from the Antihero music video because people were calling it fatphobic. I wish she had kept it in, I feel like people were really missing the point there.
I will never forget the “Yours truly” era what a time 😆💯
This is not bullying, this is feedback/criticism, I don't see personal attacks on them, people have buying power and they use it,so labels want their artists to be profitable.
also. hilary duff and sparks fan demanded version and dua lipa's debut album cover - bulling works! :D
What happened with Dua's debut album cover?
@@TheSkinnyZ fans wanted her to changed it so she did
Ur so right, sparks used to be my jammm- also I had no idea dua changed her debut
Ms. Naomi, I would be so interested to see you make vid on the history of payola. Rn people are talking Sabrina Carpenter and Billie Eilish’s new song getting playlisted everywhere on Spotify. They’re on the big pop ones, daily mixes, all over the auto play, and everywhere else. Like what is happening, I need to know your reaction.
It really depends
1:40 Shout out to Tyson Hesse, the guy who redesigned Sonic for the movie. He’s a great artist and was already an extremely prominent figure in the Sonic franchise for years. I highly recommend checking out his work.
another taylor example was her scale scene from the Anti-Hero music video, it's a shame how some viewers may have misinterpreted it even though everyone's experience with self-image and their body is different
I kid you not I got an ad about bullying right at the start of this video 😂
Megan thee stallions recent album art can fall under this category I think. She either released the alternate first or decided to go with a different version (great decision IMO)
I really love your takes on this btw - I think in general artists should just stick to what their idea was bc when it seems like they’re so willing to adjust based on feedback whether it be them or their label, it makes you doubt the body of work more or just see it less as a piece of art rather than something to sell. I think a true artist just releasing music bc they believe in their art would likely never change their work bc of anyone else’s opinion. I think of people like Lana who generally could care less about the artwork of her music (her picsart covers) but it’s almost like that makes the music speak more for itself if that makes sense
Covers definitely affect sales bc who is buying a cd or vinyl with an ugly cover? Especially considering how kinda obsolete those mediums are.
Sonic needed to look like Sonic - that wasn't bullying, it was fair criticism.
13:04 that hey kids is still on Apple Music version
beohman just got a new subscriber just for how funny he handled that
I also really agree with the colours thing. tbh I don't care what suits me, if I like it and the colour makes me happy I'm gonna wear it! I don't have to see how it looks on me the majority of the time I just see the colour when I look down and if I like that then what someone else thinks isn't gonna stop me from wearing it.
if it worked, someone wouldn't release a million versions of one album to keep blocking peers despite people saying it's sh*tty af to do
womp womp
All artists do the same thing just bc one does it better than everyone else doesn’t make it shitty lol everyone plays the chart game big deal, one just happens to be a chart demon, theyre not going to stop doing their job to give your favs a chance to chart high, that’s not how this works lol
EXACTLY
Oh that lady is just a see you next Tuesday
@@MrSincerity88LMAO her fans piss me off didn’t she literally date a minor😭
Great video! I'm going to be 100% honest, I am new to fandoms. I like music from the main pop girls as they put it. Taylor, Ariana, Dua, etc... But I have no idea about all the hints Tay gives, and all the drama with the album covers. I watch videos like yours and from others to be informed. And this is the first time I am hearing about any of these things.
There are people online talking about the Sonic movie, like the design was so bad, no one could be that stupid. Like was it on purpose for publicity? But at the same time they made that horrible Cats movie (never saw it but heard it was bad) and so yeah maybe it was for real.
But seeing the horrible Ari album cover, thank god they complained. The new cover is much better. I feel like we are being too easy on these artists. It's not really bullying, it's called having standards. They go to a concert and you see Dua doing the pencil sharpener dance, like WTF. Fans have a right to complain. Like you said why go to a concert when they are giving a bad performance. Exactly!
Many times in the art/design community, someone could be a talented singer but not dancer. Or vice versa. Not everyone is good at everything. Music artists may not have the best visual sense. I'm glad the albums were redone. Not bullying imo but just having standards. Like the guy who can't sing. His fans are having standards. Why buy a song or be a fan of someone who can't sing? I would not call it bullying again it's just having standards.
My unpopular opinion is that More Lana Del Rey wasn't necessary. The original composition served its purpose.
Regarding the album covers maybe instead of changing them and releasing different variants, it would be nice to vary them. For example, from one photoshoot the artist and its creative team can choose different final pictures for different media, one more detailed for physical copies and different ones for streaming medias… but keeping them in the same aesthetic, color scheme so its still recognizable.
your eyes are SO gorgeous!! Also love the colour of your earrings, and great video!
Girl I’m sorry but your hair looks so fucking good.
Okay, on to the video now ✨
We need to stop letting people who don’t run anything yet their thumbs on Twitter tell us what to do.
I remember feeling SO bad for Beomhan at the time, I hope he’s okay 😭
With the dua lipa and megan covers.. like people want things to be so literal. They want “eras” and hexcodes for certain colours and the simplest most straight forward metaphors to the point where it’s just branding and less art. I hate it 😭
1. love that you pointed out that fan write-ins and response has always been happening and has even caused changes in media. I absolutely agree, especially in that social media has made it easier for "normies" outside the fanbase to see and allowed for a greater volume of input.
2. I know it's not the point of the video but I definitely agree with the tiktoker on hating the color match trend. I found it especially disappointing when a body positive influencer I follow did a video with her and her team on it and some of them came away with the idea that they should wear less of a color they love or feel comfortable in because it wasn't flattering by the standards of the color theorist or the test.
In response to @15:40 - @15:58 I think men equally get bullied. A few people that come to mind would be Johnnie Gilbert who gets hate for his appearance/style, there’s DREAM who infamously got trending on twitter “HE’S UGLY” when he face revealed, JoCat is an animator who recently has been getting bullied for their animation “I like Girls” which is a Lizzo parody/love letter to liking girls and not having a type. CaseOh gets weight-shamed all the time he’s the internets punching bag for fat jokes but he leans into it i guess? (ik james charles is problematic but let’s suspend our knowledge of him and travel back in time when he was still an innocent teeny bopper) James Charles got insanely bullied for his exploration of makeup as well as his singing (yes he sucks in the present but nevertheless he was also a victim. two things can be true at once!) And the absolute most vile bullying I have seen is towards “Chris Chan” (once against STARTING FROM THE BEGINNING)
also im chronically online mb these are all internet celebs whoops. Famous Famous ppl I can think of is SEVERAL star wars actors (one was a little boy), Brendan fraisure, Jonah Hill, Jason mamoa, i guess drake….I cant think of any musicians tho OOF…maybe Michael Jackson for his vitiligo
" Which is pretty coordinated for fifth harmony " PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE