A guide to driving Gatescarth Pass, The Lake District - UK Panda 4x4
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2021
- In this video we hope to show Panda fans and other 4x4 drivers what they should expect when planning a trip to Gatescarth Pass.
Check permit status and book: www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visit...
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Thanks for including the bit with the other off roaders!
Excellebt adventure, I enjoyed watching. 👍😎
inspiring stuff guys ! loved the chopped sticker thought I was the only one to have it on a 4x4.
Lol iron oxide weight reduction, my x19 came with that as standard too...
I so need to get myself a panda 4x4, love these little motors, they put those “real “ 4x4’s to shame, Sterling job by the little beasts
I had a new one in 2015 and it is incredible where they can go. Id like another. I have an Impreza currently, cant seem to drive anything without some sort of AWD setup 🤣
Great vid. Just bought a SXS and was searching green lanes etc and found gatesgarth was fairly near me. So had a look at permits and low and behold there was 2 available next Saturday and none for rest of year! So we now have them and looking forward to it. Should be a doddle for the SXS’s
Wow, I'd love to bring my 65 Scout 80 up there!
Love the idea of the panda 4x4, that it is so versatile at a reasonable price,
would be a perfect car for me, who both want to go on an adventure at the same time as I want a cheap commuter car. So sat down to see if I could find a generation 3 here in Sweden where I live. But there wasn't a single one for sale unfortunately, after a little further research it turns out that only 250 of them have been registered here. Strange considering that they should fit well in Sweden, but I guess Fiat's bad reputation for having poor rust protection (especially here where we usually salt the roads in winter), still lingers in people's minds.
The reputation is still appropriate! We have plenty of rust issues with the Mk3's and I'm sure the Mk4's will start to present soon as well. Salty roads are a killer unfortunately
loving the videos! ive just bought a used Cross that needs some work doing - any suggestions where to take it please? i’m in east london, but can travel to someone who knows them well… thank you 🐼
Great climb lads. It wasn't until those Landies struggled up that the difficulty was brought home.
The camera never does the gradient justice!
wow!
Hey, thanks for documenting your adventures with your Panda 4x4. I'm considering buying a Panda Cross 4x4, what made you gravitate towards such a choice instead of something more off-road oriented like a Suzuki Jimny? Anything in particular sealed the deal for you? Thanks in advance
It really depends on what you want to do with it, on-road or off-road. The Panda is the better all-rounder with better fuel economy, lower purchase price tag, cheaper and easier repairs and more than likely a more comfortable ride. If you are doing more extreme off-roading then go for something which is more off-road orientated. Thanks for the support of our channel!
What is the tire size on silver one?
What kind of lift kit?
that looks great. lucky that a discovery 2 wheelbase is exactly 100 inches.
Here is a link to a short clip (full trip is available!) of a couple of us tackling the same Gatescarth bits you first got stuck on. We did it back in May 2021, when the pass reopened after 18 months of closure. The camera vehicle driver (it's a Range Rover with an orange Landie shell - you might have spotted it at the entry gate in your video) has driven it dozens of times, so he knows how to do it properly! I'm still a relative newbie with only half a dozen or so transits and this was my first time leading. .
On this stretch, and nearer the top, were the steep hairpins where the Fiats, Defenders and Discos were spinning the wheels and throwing the surface about. As you can see I managed to carelessly knock a big single rock out from the verge with the Wrangler (later replaced) but apart from that you can see that the surface was largely undisturbed and I'd hope the LDNP would approve. Low second gear and rear diffs locked when traction starts to be lost works for the Jeep.
Ironically, we both abandoned the last planned transit in August because I couldn't engage low range in the Wrangler right at the start! There's absolutely no easy turning place after that first gate so not worth risking getting stuck.
The Fiats' tiny engines and lack of low range seemed to be causing most issues, which is understandable given the limitations, but the others had no excuse - big engines, low range boxes and locking diffs, so no need for the revving and wheelspin dramas from them.
ruclips.net/video/3jT30l7idUA/видео.html
Thanks for sharing Colin 👍
I think your clip actually shows the hairpins nearer the summit which we had no difficulties with. Our struggle was with the first very steep section, about half way up the climb, just past the first locked gate.
(heavily edited from original as I accidentally deleted most of it in an earlier edit!)
You're right. Here's the full video ruclips.net/video/fwdDWagBBGk/видео.html
The section you all got stuck on is about two minutes in. As you can see there were no issues there for me in the Wrangler in May/Jun, and I was worried that a step had appeared, possibly caused by a Disco with a broken diff lock who had to be towed over the top, or by eejits like whoever was driving the blue Defender and the second Disco in your video. However I know that the two marshalls who followed you round later (one of them in a standard 90 on winter tyres - he held the gate open in your video) reported they'd had no issues at all, but then they drive that road a LOT. I hope one of them chips in here. They'll be looking at that bit of track very carefully in October though, before anyone drives over, you can be sure.
www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/things-to-do/green_roads/green_road_gatescarth/gatesgarth-guidelines (which you reference in the video) contains the following:
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"If forward momentum ceases for any reason, stop and re-assess the situation before attempting to continue. ***Wheel spin must be avoided at all costs*** . Don't be afraid to ask for help from other vehicles in your group.
All vehicles must keep strictly to the track. Please do not drive into bankings as this destabilises them and risks them crumbling into the track. Running off the track and ***spinning wheels*** creates ruts into wet or drainage areas which affect drainage patterns and attract water onto the track, causing softening and erosion of the surface. Choose your line carefully and stop to assess the route if necessary."
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It also mandates what traction control is acceptable
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"4 wheel-drive, with centre differential locking or equivalent (in gearbox), two speed transfer gearbox, good ground clearance, robust suspension, good, strong, front and rear recovery points and under-body protection is necessary."
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What's the low range/diff lock setup in those Pandas? I know Suzuki Jimnys tick all the boxes, but not that many Pandas go over. Now that you've done it, are there any improvements to the setup possible that could minimise that dreaded wheelspin/stone movement?
GLASS and TRF (Green Lane Association and Trail Riders Federation) pay for, and do, a lot of upkeep on popular Cumbria green lanes in general and Gatescarth Pass in particular. The GLASS marshalls met you at the gate (where they had been from 9am) and drove and closed the route several hours later after the 4x4s had all gone over and moved on to the next lane. Those TRF volunteer marshalls were the guys in hi-viz and crash helmets watching you (and doubtless making mental notes of where to send the next work party) in your video.
Everyone should drive the Gatescarth Pass (carefully of course). Glad you all had a great day and flew the flag for Fiat (which also owns Jeep!)
We applied for licences and gave our registrations and vehicle details, we then had a long chat with the gate marshalls about the route and our cars and the reception we got was 'go for it' with a friendly smile. They were more scathing about the modified £500 Disco users. So from a 'should we have attempted it?' point of view, we had the go ahead from Glass and our conscience is clean.
Obviously we did spin the wheels on occasions, you can clearly see our most difficult moments in the video. On each attempted climb when the wheels slipped, we would mostly stop accelerating and start again. This was more from the point of view that as soon as our wheels starting spinning, the attempt had failed so no point in continuing but it has the desired effect of minimising damage. Overall, we flicked some stones and moved a couple of big rocks to build temporary ramps but I am very happy with the impact we had on that road.
The other point to make is the difference between a 1.0l engine spinning a 24" wheel with less than a ton of weight on it compared to a 2 ton truck with 35" wheels and a big torquey diesel engine. I have seen first hand how much more damage the big cars do to grass, mud, gravel, or rock surfaces where our Pandas have driven over moments before leaving literally no trace. I am almost certain that although we struggled most out of all the vehicles driving Gatescarth that day, we did not have the biggest impact on the surface. I firmly believe if there were more width/length/weight/tyre diameter restrictions on green lanes, we would have a fraction of the problems we do with trail erosion and damage with the happy side effect of people no longer complaining the lanes are 'too easy' or 'boring'. Everything is fun when you have castors for wheels and no power! The problem with 4x4 culture in general is the 'my wheels/exhaust/penis is bigger than yours' attitude that leads to monster trucks flattening our ancient byways.
We made it up, 99% self propelled. This was a scouting mission to see if this is a viable route for future Panda meets where we take convoys of 4-6 cars of various states of modification. I now know it isn't suitable for the majority of our members and I would only attempt it again with a classic Panda and one of a few experienced drivers I know. So our mission was successful in that respect.
All really well made points, and I agree with most of them, though I'd not agree that tyre size is an issue - it's more about downward pressure on the contact patch and a heavier vehicle on larger, wider tyres will exert less downward pressure per square inch than a light vehicle on "castors" :-)
That challenging road is for driving, and you did your homework, took advice, and then drove it within the rules and followed them to the best of your and the vehicles' capabilities. I've no doubt of that. And of course you are 100% right that a well driven Panda will have a lot less impact than a mud muppet spinning their way up in something bigger and more powerful. I really hope I wasn't coming across as judgemental, or trying to lay a guilt trip - that's not what I was aiming for. If every day is a school day, a day on the Gatescarth Pass is more like a postgraduate degree!
So, now that the scouting mission is over, you and "Team Panda" are buzzing, and we at the gate can perhaps (if you conclude that it's viable) expect to see at least a few more Fiats next year, can I offer some unsought advice from a wannabe marshall's perspective just in case you or someone else ever decides to put a really well prepped group, perhaps larger than two, together? Please take it in the spirit in which it's meant! These apply to every vehicle, not just Pandas.
OK, it's a given that if you run it you'll include only suitable carefully chosen vehicles and drivers, based on your own knowledge gained on the recce, and that you've by now already identified the "struggle points", plus the other "tricky but do-able" bits.
1) Sort your group(s) of two, three or 4 (can't be more than four) carefully by vehicle and driver.
2) Before applying for the permit, if you possibly can, do a team practice run on a similar, but less demanding lane the day before, or even earlier. If the proposed vehicles struggle on the Breasthigh hairpins (about 5 minutes into this ruclips.net/video/78W9Q7YBjCU/видео.html) , for example, they'll never make it up nearby Gatescarth unassisted: if they drop out, someone else has missed out on a slot, though to be fair marshalls are generally allowed to be flexible about last minute substitutions with another suitable vehicle, so maybe bring a sub or two!
Also a failed hill start and subsequently retreating DOWN steep hairpins in reverse is well worth practicing here too - Breasthigh lacks the terrifying drop offs of Gatescarth!
Breasthigh is driveable both ways, and there's always a way back and a place to get past! But there's a ford at the start of the western end which can be very deep at times www.wikiloc.com/offroading-trails/breast-high-road-to-tebay-36320036
3) Be prepared to self recover and practice it well in advance. Practice towing each other up and around steep hairpins a la Breasthigh if you can. You'll more than likely need to do this at certain points on the Pass, as you by now of course know - and helpful pushers aren't always going to be found. Know your towing points and bring all the necessary straps and shackles. Also cheap Baofeng (or similar) two way radios are a good idea.
4) Put the most capable vehicle/driver combo at the front. This might not be a Panda if you're playing it really safe. Sorry to be controversial :-). (S)he will be the one to tow the strugglers over the really tricky bits. Bring enough straps and shackles to form a towing "chain", as it might need two vehicles to get the final struggler over. Remember there is really nowhere suitable to get past another vehicle without going off piste so each vehicle helps the one behind.
5) Accept my apology for stating the obvious above. Know the rules, discuss them in depth, do your best to observe them, plan carefully, and have what may be the 4x4 drive of a life time!
A lot (or all!) of this of course experienced laners like yourself will know already - I'm just putting the "Gatescarth specific" stuff out there for consideration!
Awesome video! I assume the mk3 is less capable due to the independent suspension at the rear? Has anyone fitted a diff lock?
Diff lock is available after a fashion in the Mk3 Cross variant, but sadly is twinned with the diesel engine which is a proper let down.
@@allthingsandyb I thought I saw a limited slip or locking diff for the panda a while ago.
@markburton8303 you may be correct, I know there are several independent workshops in Italy that make such items for the Mk3 4x4, they will no doubt be loosely manufactured around the standard equipment.
@@allthingsandyb i think a raised mk2 on big tyres, 100hp engine or an old school NA diesel lump locked up would be pretty epic!
@markburton8303 that's the best combination!
Where can I get a roof rack like Jimmy has?
Do these Pandas have heavy duty clutches fitted because when I had a Panda 4x4, a new one in 2015, took it up the Dales and a section nearly burnt the clutch out.
As far as I know, everyone in this group is using OEM or equivalent clutches. Gatescarth is the only lane that has given me clutch issues - it's very steep! The 1.2 will chug along very slowly with the clutch engaged. An on/off aproach to clutch use helps avoid slipping and overheating.
👏👏👏👍👍👍🇮🇹
The Panda is built for this.
It really isn't!
Did the panda heave Lock 4x4 or not?
No, it doesn't.
I plan to buy a mkIII. Diesel or petrol? That's the dilemma!
Petrol if you plan to take it off road. Diesel for everything else
@@UKPanda4x4 I had in my mind that the more torque at low rpms of a diesel engine is better for off road use!
Have a look at the 'Extreme Laning in the Yorkshire Dales' video for our views on the Multijets off road performance.
@@UKPanda4x4 Thanks a lot!
air down your tire to 15 psi they get more grip
If only we had someone with your level of genius with us on the day
What are the specs on the silver panda?
It says in the video!
What size tyres? Just says oversized mud tyres in the video
Interesting video. I do not know how you had managed to gain entry to the lane when you do not conform to the entry requirements. It clearly states that "Road biased 4x4s" are not eligable for access, you are exactly that, and if they are suggesting that your Panda, although quite capable, is above capability levels of such as a Freelander, which I might add is proven on such expeditions as the Camel Trophy of 1998, suggests that there is no real detail necessary to not get a permit. Ie if you got a permit, anyone can as you have proven the rule to be unfair and biased.
Hi, thanks for the reply. Not sure what you're getting at here - my car does conform to the entry requirements, that's why the marshals allowed me to enter - we were checked at the gates, as well as on application. The MK2 Panda 4x4 has a low gear, dedicated 4x4 system (no tricksy electronics, just a straight mechanical setup by Steyr-Puch that drives all four wheels at once when selected), tyres, lift, underbody protection, under 100 inch wheelbase - in fact, it's perfect for the job.
The rules specifically prohibit a Freelander and similar vehicles because the limited 4WD system makes them more of a 'soft-roader' and could damage the lane:
"The route is not appropriate for tarmac orientated saloon type vehicles or 4 wheel-drive vehicles such as the Freelander or RAV 4. Vehicles with wheelbase over 100 inches are no longer permitted on the Pass. 4 wheel-drive, with centre differential locking or equivalent (in gearbox), two speed transfer gearbox, good ground clearance, robust suspension, good, strong, front and rear recovery points and under-body protection is necessary."
As James has said, a Mk2 Panda is superior to a Freelander in every way that matters off road. Because of that, I'm assuming your comments are aimed at my Mk3, and you have a point, but we applied just the same as everyone else has to and were scrutinised on the day by the marshalls. If you have a complaint about who gets to drive Gatescarth I suggest you aim it at them. I don't want to speak on their behalf but I imagine they will politely suggest that although a Freelander and a Mk3 Panda have a very similar 4wd system, the Panda is much shorter and lighter, which is key for this lane in particular and leads to significantly less trail damage which is the whole reason permit system has been put in place.
As I have said in other comments, I wouldn't take a Mk3 or Mk4 Panda up this lane again but I am glad to have had the opportunity to drive it.
It's ok, they just wanted someone to talk to as most people that had Freelanders have sold them to get the better Panda 4x4s. Really should have a word with the organisers about letting Freelanders up the lane I think. Shocking abuse of the rules! 🤣
Hang on a minute, are you seriously suggesting a freelander is more capable than a Panda 4x4? Are you alright..?