The 1985 Cadillac Deville Was “The Cadillac of Tomorrow” (Incl. Designer John Manoogian Interview)
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2022
- Learn more about the design of the 1985 Cadillac Deville with guest and former Cadillac Exterior Studio Chief, John Manoogian.
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These interviews with the original designers are absolutely amazing, what a resource for historians of the future and people like me who are just fascinated by these design insights.
Thank you Mr Manoogian for taking the time to talk about your time at GM,
Ditto!
Agreed. Fascinating now and incredibly invaluable long-term.
Thanks to John for sharing!
My father had an early '85 that he picked up Labor Day weekend 1984. He had done a factory order. It was Academy Gray with gray leather interior, a red pinstripe and wire wheel covers. Other options included power passenger seat, cassette player, and leather steering wheel. He skipped the rear defrost, but it never proved to be a problem, as the back window was so upright that it never seemed to fog. It was my father's second Cadillac -- his first was an '81 Seville. I want to say the Deville's sticker was about $24k, about the same as his '81 Seville.
The '85 was a big deal. The interior room was impressive. We pretty regularly had six people in the car. My dad liked planes, so he thought the "aircraft style" doors were pretty cool. I was a kid at the time, so it took me a few years to really understand what he meant when he said "the engine was sideways."
Unfortunately, that car was a mechanical mess. Two water pump failures in the first three years -- one of them was on a Friday when we were out of town for my father's best friend's wedding. The nearby dealer either couldn't or wouldn't take the car for some reason. An independent shop ended up fixing it. I don't remember if the car was still under warranty, but I recall my dad got at least a partial reimbursement after talking to the service manager at the dealer back home.
The other water pump failure happened on a holiday when my sister and I were off from school. My dad took the day off from work to take us to a movie. The car broke in the mall parking lot. We called a tow truck, and I'm pretty sure we eventually made it to the movie, but I don't remember how we got home. Years later, I recall hearing that GM put a lifetime warranty on the water pumps because the failure rate was so high, and they couldn't figure out a permanent fix, but I'm not sure if that's true.
The '85 -- like the '81 -- also suffered from electrical gremlins that caused the door locks to go up and down at random times on their own. My sister and I would joke that there were poltergeists in the car.
After 5 years, the transmission needed replacement, so my dad punted the car and bought a Mazda 929S. In 1992, after two years with the Mazda -- he leased a '92 Eldorado in Polo Green and drove only Cadillacs for the next 20+ years.
Like you guys mentioned, there were a few cues that were only in '85. The big backlight, the black bumper moldings, the minimal chrome rocker moldings and the seat design, I believe, were all exclusive to '85. Personally, I didn't like the tighter backlight that came in the later cars, as it clearly looked like a tacked-on afterthought.
Overall, I miss the big side windows cars had back then. These days, automakers put these huge glass roofs in cars to make them feel "airier," and make up for today's high beltlines, which give a feeling of claustrophobia. The problem is that all the glass in the world up there isn't going to keep you from feeling like you're driving a bathtub.
Thanks again for this series. Obviously, this one really resonated with me.
I really enjoyed your story. I’d love to know what your and your dad’s experience with the 90s Northstar Cadillacs
@@mblackmon7191 My father's Cadillac roster was as follows:
81 Seville V-8-6-4
85 Sedan DeVille
92 Eldorado
94 SLS
96 SLS
99 Deville D'Elegance
01 SLS
04 SLS (bought back by GM for paint/finish issues)
04 SLS (to replace the first one)
07 STS 3.6
10 SRX 3.0 Performance
13 XTS Luxury
13 ATS 2.0T Luxury (for mom)
15 XTS Luxury
Dad had a bunch of early Northstars but never had any engine trouble. However, as you can see, he never had them for more than the term of a lease. I know the Northstar has a bit of a tarnished reputation, mainly because of head gasket issues. For all I know, all his Northstar Cadillacs went on to blow head gaskets after he got rid of them, but while he had them, they were generally considered great, high-tech, world-class engines, at least as far as I was concerned. I think, for that reason, I don't have the image of Northstars as being bad engines the way a lot of people do. My understanding is that head studs basically fix the early Northstars but that that can be an expensive fix. From what I understand, the later Northstars are pretty reliable.
Your dad's car had those problems at least, in part because that design was in its first year and still had kinks that had to be worked out.
@@aaronwilliams6989 For sure!
Thank you because I remember my grandpa loved Cadillac and I always wished he’d got one of the 90s modes because when they came out they looked so cool and modern. I had a 2010 CTS and enjoyed it, the only thing is it seemed to lack a little shove from the V6
I’ve really enjoyed John’s appearances here, Adam. He has a very engaging way of talking. I hope you are able to have more sessions with him, perhaps talking about GM Design in general during his time there. Too bad that the first of these FWD DeVilles were saddled with the awful HT4100 engine which badly needed further development.
I agree. They had some fundamental mechanical gremlins. Which is a shame as they’re great when everything is operating well
@@RareClassicCars I agree with ab348, John is very engaging and interesting to listen to. Being a retired engineer myself, I'd like to hear more about how the automotive engineering group interfaced with the design side of the house. Was that always an antagonistic relationship, or could it be more of a shared responsibility partnership?
@@RareClassicCars Been daily driving my 84 Seville with 166k miles and the gremlins mostly consist of electrical issues such as the AC not blowing 100% of the time and the digital cluster going out just a few weeks of owning it and then no air coming out the vents other than that it a very reliable car even with the 4100.
My neighbors had brought an 86 or 7 home that had been in her father's garage for 25 years after he passed away and they asked me if I could get it started but first I had to remove the Viper alarm system and upon looking underneath it, I told him it just really wasn't worth it because all of the Magnesium parts and suspension and everything else was just pockmarked and corroded to the point where there was not really much left except a facsimile of what the part once looked like. They just put it into the garage and it's been sitting ever since
@@RareClassicCars I had an 85 that I absolutely loved, HT4100 notwithstanding. I lost trust in it when the oil pump failed. I never had coolant leakage or cam issues, I used the coolant pellets. Mine had the interior like the blue one shown, in light gray.
John’s candidness is refreshing! These videos touched a nerve: when I was a boy, I wanted to be a car designer…that never happened and I always wonder, what if? So, these interviews really resonate and give me an insight into an alternative career that never was…
These episodes with John are really cool. He is such a successful man and is incredibly laidback and not ego driven at all. Thanks to him and especially thanks to you for putting it together for us to see.
Thank you Adam for having Mr. Manoogian on to share his insights. I always had a soft spot for these FWD Devilles 85-93. Such a clean, paired down design, yet every inch a Cadillac. I'm 43, so I was a child when these were new; in 8th grade when this generation ended, but I remember lobbying my parents hard for one of these every time they bought a new car; to no avail.
My baby boomer parents looked at Cadillac as something for "old people." That said, my mom now loves her '18 XTS (that I bought her to replace her ancient Infiniti Q45 :-) And I really enjoyed my CT6.
I learned to drive on 1993 coupe deville , we are the same age. We still have the car today, it is my 79 yr old mothers car. No rust. 113k mi. She had before this a 1988 coupe deville , and a 1985 coupe deville , with these ribbed leather seats, that one was in the chicago auto show for 1985 before we bought it.
@@bradroth7005 Sounds like your mom is a stylish lady!🙂
One of my favorite guests....Warm and insightful....Great memory, can't remember what I had for breakfast!
My father had an 86 Sedan deVille in Academy Grey with matching leather interior. His had the limousine rear window. I recall trying to talk him out of getting it as he traded his 81 Eldorado for it. But the 86 was very pleasant to drive and was quite comfortable. He eventually traded it in for an 89 in Antelope firemist. Loved learning what John shared regarding the development of these cars. Your interviews with John, Wayne and Marc are invaluable to fans of automotive history and are a valuable historic archive for generations to come.
This is my favorite Cadillac. Spent a lot of time in these cars as a kid. Very special cars
GM needs this guy back. We are so lucky to have him here for this interview. Thank you John and Adam!
I Love Cadillacs! I remember the very first 1985 Down sized Cadillac Coupe DeVille I saw. It was Love at first sight! It was on the showroom floor at Flowers Cadillac in Galveston, TX. It was Gorgeous! What a thrill to meet the designer and see the artist renderings!! Thank You!!
Adam, your channel has definitely become one of, if not the best automotive channels on RUclips. There are elements of almost every aspect of the automotive landscape. Even in the beginning you brought a different perspective and showed us things that most others don't think about or think of as important. Thank you for starting this channel. And keep up the good work
Thx!
Thank you John and Adam. I owned a 93 Deville. It was a very clean design, very quiet and smooth. Still had that very distinctive Cadillac Design.
Beautiful, Timely, clean, intelligently designed and a work of art on wheels. Thank You.
John and Adam, this was great! The first time I saw an '85 DeVille was driving my Dodge K Car company ride down road, and did a U-turn to go back to look at it. It was a blue coupe', with matching leather seats. The more I looked at it, the more it looked like a Caddy. And sitting inside it, and taking hold of the wheel, there was no mistaking its DNA. The studio guys got it right!
1988 coupe deville was my first car, bought it in 2012 for 3,600 and drove it daily! I got about 18 mpg on average, and put 70k miles on it before parting ways! LOVED IT, over all low maintenance, just ate up a couple water pumps. The digital dash and interior lighting was very impressive and all of my passengers got a kick out of the “self-leveling”… and the ride was superb! Thanks Adam!
These are simply awesome interviews and required viewing for any automotive design students out there.
Wow, seeing John's drawings is amazing. There are some beautiful cars there. It's a shame that they didn't use more of his ideas. For those to be drawn in the early 80's just shows that he knows what he's doing.
I just hate that there is no more market for a traditional full-size Cadillac sedan. I wish there were still a Cadillac Deville.
It's so awesome to hear from this man!
I own mid 80s Cadillac that John worked on. Thanks to John for being part of my dream car. I love my classy Cadillac!
The '85 is such a clean design 👌!
Excellent video, as always 👍
🖖🙏🇨🇦
Adam, another wonderful video. Always look forward to seeing your videos.
Thank you so much for coming on and doing this interview Mr. Manoogian. My grandparents had (what I believe) was a 1987 Cadillac Deville. It was such a beautiful and comfortable car, especially being a kid in the 80's. I napped in the backseat many times! Your years at Cadillac are, outside of the 1960, the most beautiful cars they produced. All the Best, from Memphis, TN.
I remember these cars well and how much of a departure they were from previous generations. I really enjoy watching these videos and gaining insight into their design. I wish my father was still alive to watch these.
What an absolute delight. I do hope that Mr. Manoogian enjoys your interviews and sharing his perspective as clearly so so many viewers do. Thank you, both.
This is auto history laid down in person and in detail - right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. 😢Neither Mr. Manoogian nor you will live forever, but these videos will. Thank you.
Thank you John for your time and insightful stories. By the way, when I worked in Cadillac Consumer Relations (88-91) I talked to a lot Cimmaron owners who really liked their cars. 😀
Yes i loved mine very much!
No disrespect to anyone involved, but I really and truly enjoyed this video a lot more than I first thought I would. Wow, this was fantastic to see the interview with John Manoogian. I owned a 1990 DeVille a few years ago and though I loved the way it looked and the way it looked parked in my garage, it seemed to like the mechanic's garage better and was always over there! But, when I think back, this one was definitely one of my favorite cars!
John’s insight & reflection on what he was trying to show & why was very informative & interesting. Thank you John for letting Adam pick your memories.
Thank you to Mr. Manoogian for sharing his time and extensive knowledge. Very interesting and appreciated.
I remember seeing these on the road back then and they definitely stood out thanks for sharing the background
Thank you John for sharing your GM experiences! I was in high school up in Fresno California and I liked those models. Not for my demographics, I was into Z28, Corvette, Pontiac Fiero etc...yet those mid 80's GM cars were nice! I was driving a one owner 21,000 miles 1967 Pontiac LeMans coupe! Great memories! Greetings from Hollywood California.
Thanks Adam and John
Your content, tone, and themes approach the old Automobile Quarterly, and that’s high praise. Kudos to you and thanks to John for a great discussion.
Yes, John's terrific and I'd love to see him as often as we could have him.
This car had been my all time favorite!
Thank you Jon Manoogian for your work.
Beautiful clean design ideas. He was a very talented designer.
In the 70s and 80s I used to draw side views of cars all the time, so this is very interesting. I sometimes wonder if I could have ventured into this field.
LOVE these interviews! Thank you to both John and Wayne for sharing their time and insights!
I love listening to designers from other fields talk about their design methodologies. It's great to see the actual sketches!
I rented several of these cars at the time for business. It was a joy to drive, even for long distances. I really liked the looks and it was so much easier to drive in cities than the older RWD body.
John is such a magnificent artist! I absolutely love seeing all of his renderings. It's so kind of him to share his time and knowledge with us. And Adam, it's so cool that you know all of these influential people in the automotive industry. Amazing!
This is such a great series and I truly appreciate John sharing his experiences. I could listen to him all day!
Hello, It's good to see this kind of program, especially since so many people love the old style Caddillacs. What I really enjoy about this era of vehicle is that they are more mechanical than computerized. The lines are clean and fit a comfortable cabin 1985-88.
I'd love to hear Mr. Manoogian speak on the infamous Eldorado/Seville ('86-'91) of that era! I personally think the '90 Seville is a beautiful car, as Cadillac did just the right amount of tweaks on it by that point. Of course, the 3rd generation was replaced a couple years later.
Yes indeed. It's up to Adam.
Totally! The Seville style was closer to the 1975-79 successful original … yet the manic clean to casket back to clean style….totally lost buyer continuity and the 1986 Eldo / Riv / and Toronado looked just like nicer N cars…..at least the Seville didn’t have an Olds/Buick clone, and survived to let the 1992 and the awesome 1998 Seville give some breath of life and sales to the brand.
Another beautiful design John!
Great conversation! Appreciated John Manoogian's wonderful incites into the design behind the design. Thanks!
Fascinating. Thank you John and Adam.
A wonderful design work. I owned a 1984 Seville Elegant in the past and then a 1989 Fleetwood Sixty Special. And although I drive Tesla Model S today, I miss the Cadillacs very much.
Thank you John for sharing this history with us! I always thought the 89-92 Fleetwood Coupe with the skirts was so pretty and looked like one of the last drawings you showed us in the video. Cheers!!!
I agree! Loved those Fleetwood coupes too.
Absolutely awesome conversation with an amazing designer. Totally awesome.
These interviews with the designers are very interesting to watch.
I was 17 when my parents bought a brand new, dark grey '85 Sedan de Ville. I loved that car. Still a gorgeous looking car and much better looking than most of the cars built today, IMO. And sure, I was just a kid driving "daddy's car"...but I still had a lot of fun driving that car around town. Felt like a big shot even if I was not...lol. Sadly, we only had it until early 1988, when my dad lost control on an icy stretch of highway. Thankfully, my dad was not seriously injured, but the car was written off.
The 4.3 V6 Diesel was "the only" way to go. You could get 37 mpg on the open road at 55 mph.... the new 1985+ Cadillacs did greatly help Cadillac with total units bought throughout the late 80's and 90s.. It was a good move for Cadillac as many buyers were specifically seeking FWD in a regular looking traditional Cadillac.
Thank you Adam and Thank you Mr. Manoogian!!!!
1991-1993, but especially 1993 iteration really transformed this car into a truly remarkable design
What a joy to have John recalling the thinking behind the design ideas. I'm so thankful that he kept his drawings, creative people surround themselves with all manner of ideas. So if we move forward to the 1990's, would all design ideas be saved to a hard drive - no more beautiful hand drawn renderings? Thank you, John and Adam, for the Art of Design.
i have a 1990 deville, which personally i think solved some of the styling oddities this car had if any, the later tail lights suiting the car better in my opinion, its amazing youve gotten the people behind such amazing cars here, and i still get to enjoy my deville 180 thousand miles later, it gives me knowledge that there really was a lot of thought put into these devilles
I had one. Loved it.
The 1987 was my favorite year for these. I was in my early teens when these came out and I remember being super curious about the downsized design. The ride quality in the 1987 Sedan de Ville was so smooth and controlled compared to the rear wheel drive designs. I couldn’t believe how heavy the car felt in spite of how much smaller it was. These were very contemporary for the time, and definitely kept in pace with the “Contemporary Spirit of Cadillac” image GM was going for. I’m not sure the demographic that actually purchased the car was what they initially intended. My observation was that more people in the 45+ age group went for these cars, rather than the younger crowd Cadillac was aiming for. As a 45+ man who has fond memories of the ‘87 Sedan de Ville, I am still enamored with this car. This design was innovative, and most definitely WORKED for its time.
These 80’s C and B bodies with their sharp lines are much more attractive than the more rounded shapes of the 90’s and 2000’s
Great interview. John did a phenomenal job with his designs. I love the Olds 98!! I owned an 1989 model.
Love love love this segment. Thank you both!
I very much enjoy John’s videos. He just seems like such a friendly, open guy. It’s always so interesting to hear about the thought process behind these cars and it’s great when you show photos of the production car to tie in the way the design ideas were executed.
I've always wanted to do what John did as a car designer. That was my dream job ever since elementary school. Some of those sketches has some of the exact same styling cues in today's cars. Higher belt line and short overhang both front and back. The wheel designs mimics 19" to 22" and low profile tires. Great stuff love it!
If only low profile tires and big rims were available when John did those sketches. Those cars would have looked SOOO much better in reality! Great interview!
I really love your ability to bring out the "banter" in people, Adam. It makes the interview interesting and fun. I have to confess that I about had a stroke when these models first came out. I hated them. I can appreciate them more now then I did back then, but I still don't love them. I think they have a light, flimsy look. Back when Mercedes-Benz cars looked like they were formed from a solid piece of steel, these just didn't compare to me. It was like GM was trying to continually shrink the traditional American sedan when a whole new approach was needed. Ford seemed to realize this and, thus, the Taurus/Sable.
I just recalled, and wanted to add, that the first time I saw one in metal was at Carlson Cadillac in Salt Lake City, UT. I sat in a maroon Sedan deVille, hit the memory button on the seat and was slowly squeezed into the steering wheel a la Christine. A salesman saved me with much laughter and embarrassment on my part.
I've been waiting on pins and needles for this video! I have loved the c-body cadillacs since they hit the streets in 1985.
THANK YOU both, these interviews are top shelf in my opinion, wonderful to hear the designers comments. You are a great interviewer with genuine interest in it all. Really appreciate watching these so much, and hope for more!
Elements of that second-to-last drawing at around 14:00 were used on Broughams and Fleetwoods, like the bevel atop of the trunk, the thin horizontal backup lights above the bumper, and the chrome lower cladding. Speaking of the big boat Cadillacs, I would love to see a video about their design as they really are the quintessential classic Cadillacs and they’re the only ones you haven’t featured given the Eldorado, Seville, small Deville, and, hell, even the Cimarron, have been discussed!
These interviews are fascinating- thanks Adam and John!!
Revolutionary design. If GM re-released this retro design they would have a huge hit on their hands.All the open glass and balanced dimensions.
No, no they wouldnt. Clearly you were born after the 80s.
@@Henry_Jones hehehe maybe
I have so much respect for John Manoogian. Thank you to both of you!! 👍🏻👍🏻
I really enjoyed this series with the designers and seeing their sketches.
It's great hearing from John and getting his first-hand recollections. I love his sense of humor and the way he explains the reasons and motivations behind various design features. Thank to him for appearing in the video!
The artwork is always cool to see. Recognizing most of the design cues that were later used for '90s Cadillacs. I felt like they really nailed the modern design for Cadillac a little later with the '89 Deville and Fleetwood.
At the time as a teen I really did not like the ‘85-‘88 DeVilles. My Dad was appalled. (I must admit I thought the ‘85s on looked good in red though.). I liked the ‘89 refresh much more. My mom drove a gray over gray ‘90, which I was very found of driving when I could and it’s looks. Weird as time goes by while I like still like the refresh more, I have grown to have a new appreciation of the earlier original look. I think Cadillac should have kept the original seat design at least as an option. To my eye it was able to look both contemporary and Cadillac at the same time. After hearing John talk about the design process and the thought that went into them, I really thinking “Yeah, I should try and buy one.” Thank you for the interview very good as always.
Really enjoyed listening to Mr. Manoogian and seeing his renderings. Hope you do more videos with him. Mom had an '88 Coupe de Ville.
Big thanks to John, and for you Adam for documenting this stuff. As i have said here before, this is priceless. Well done.
Just picked up a 1986 DeVille... two door with the partial vinyl top. 109k original miles and I am the second owner. Still drives and rides great!
John, your talent and work is phenomenal 👏 and it's an honor to hear your stories and see what was, and what might have been, had the Car (and Cadillac) gods allowed you a freer reign. With great admiration and respect 🖖🙏 🇨🇦
Thank you!
Mr. Manoogian, thank you for your interviews! They provide the backstory for what we saw in the showroom and on the road, and it's a fascinating tale. Beautifully illustrated and well told.
Terrific video. Love my Caddy!
Brings back memories of my grandmothers. They had an 86 and was blue with blue seats. She replaced it with a 92 Roadmaster.
Love these stories ❤️
My mom had one she bought brand new in 1984 and she loved it
I love learning the history & design of these beautiful cars by the actual designers. Very interesting and I like it ☺️
Fun interview. When I was in my early 20s my Dad was able to starting buying new Cadillacs every year or every other year. So he had one of those `85 DeVilles. I think he also had an `87 and then an `88 Eldorado and others. Then Mom and Dad kept both his `89 and `90 DeVilles for many years. I got the `90 when it was almost 20 years and it was an awesome car, but unfortunately it got wrecked. I had loved that car.
These cars were ubiquitous amongst my suburban Michigan neighborhood growing up in the late 1980s & 90s. Just about every retired GM engineer on my street had at least one of these Cadillacs in their driveway. These (and the other C&H bodied platform mates) still look good today.
Very cool seeing my 87' Seville I had a long time ago coming to life in his drawings -awesome historic content!! I remember those ribs on the bottom of the doors were a real bear to wax and clean:-)
Thank you Adam! This was an awesome interview!
Another master of design in this era. Great to hear from John and to see his drawings. Thanks Adam.
I had the 86 FWD Fleetwood brown with a darker brown vinyl roof. Kept it polished and the roof armor all shined. Was a damn good looking car. Had the 4100, but I wasn't stomping on it anyway. Loved the air suspension floated down the road stiffly.
Excellent clip. John is a great communicator - much like yourself. Your finance presentations must be SRO no matter what dry spreadsheets you have to show.
We need John's wheel well treatments to come back. I am sick of the flat flange on every car.
Saturn - yes! John, big fan. I have a SL and a SC. Converted the SC to electric and love it.
Great stuff! John is fantastic to listen to! Keep it coming, please!
You two are great together, a really fun watch. How about the GM two seaters, not counting the Corvette, like the Saturn Sky, Fiero, Reatta, Pontiac Solstice, Cadillac Corvette and so on. Thanks again to you and John.
I had one of these. Aside from frequent motor mount failures and front windows dropping off their tracks every 6 months, it was a terrific luxury car. Got 28 mpg freeway and 22 city mpg. A beauty!
Very enjoyable and educational, Thanks to you John for your openness, and yourself Adam, for these great presentations. We as consumers would never have access to this history (especially from the very people that were there) if you weren't putting forth the effort. Thanks.
John, thank you for joining Adam. It amazes me, looking at those sketches, how many design elements I can see attributed to other generations of these cars, and other cars wholly. I see elements of the 1994-1999 DeVille, elements of the 1992-2001 Eldorado, I even see elements that remind me of the 1986-1991 Olds Toronado/Trofeo.
Magnificent!