1985 Cadillac "Birth of a Car" - The FWD Deville/Fleetwood Story
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- Captured from a rapidly deteriorating laserdisc, this video is a fascinating look at the new FWD Deville & Fleetwoods, from concept to execution.
From the liner notes: "The Birth of a Car: "First seen during the GM-Sponsored "George Washington Special" presented April 8, 10 & 11, 1984 on CBS-TV, this documentary commercial chronicles the 210 weeks of development, testing and manufacturing that were required for the '85 FWD Deville/Fleetwood concept to become a reality. This "George Washington Special" mini-series was seen by an estimated 70 million people, capturing the largest share of the national TV audience over the three nights it was broadcast." 
Авто/Мото
A great look at how a new car is planned, designed, engineered and built. The Orion Assembly plant is still in operation today, building the all-electric Chevy Bolt.
After the 4 million miles of testing you would think they would have easily discovered the metallurgy and head gasket issues with the HT 4100, especially given they were already inappropriately in use in the previous larger RWD Devilles and Fleetwoods for a couple years at this point. It’s quite likely they did know, but CAFE left them no choice but to proceed anyway and use the customers as guinea pigs to improve it. They eventually did as the 4.5 L and 4.9 L versions were far better, but the damage was done.
Of all of the 1985 FWD "C" body cars, the Cadillacs just LOOKED too damn small. Inside they were about as roomy as the 1984 RWD versions, but they lacked the "presence" of the 80-84 models. The 85-88 looked "shrunk" (The first FWD Oldsmobile 98) had a similar (but less jarring) effect. The car that looked best on this platform were the Buicks (Electra/Park Avenue). It's almost as if they designed the Buick body first and forced Cadillac and Oldsmobile styling on it to make the others. They got SOME of the "presence" back for 1989, But I'm SURE many Cadillac dealers and buyers were glad that GM kept the 1980 (itself a "remodeled" 1977 body!) RWD Cadillac body (as the "Brougham") around until 1992!
I didn't like them too much either at first.
Moved to Detroit in '81 and the Caddy's were my first assembly line. I always wanted one of these beauties that was long and black. I devised a plan that would be the envy of almost any man. I would sneak parts out in my lunchbox each day and build a Cadillac of my own in my garage. GM wouldn't notice if I just took one piece at a time...
And it didn’t cost me a dime
While GM may have been downsizing their cars between 77-79, the car buying public accepted this because of gas mileage standards, the first casualties were Pontiacs full size cars in 1981, Buick, Cadillac & Oldsmobile decided to shrink their luxury car group in mid year 84 in creating yet another new group of front drive cars, if you recall the Lincoln ads, they got lost in the shuffle because they looked alike, even the Eldorado, Riviera Seville & Toronado shrunk in size for 86, the buyers took notice & sales took a hit, car buyers knew what they liked back in the day, then decided for themselves that not everyone is going to be jumping on the bandwagon when other changes occur, now we've all dumped cars for an overdose of SUV'S,etc, not to mention everything is so overpriced it's stupid, can't we go back to how buying a car used to be, instead we're playing follow the leader of a different sort, I enjoyed going to the auto show but now it's not what it used to be, there's nothing that really catches my eye, the Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs & Challengers are nice but too much money!!
Did not last long, poor safety.
"Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs & Challengers are nice but too much money!!" That's why I'm sticking with my '90 Volvo! Lol
What happened to car Design?
The true answer to this dilemma is to continue production of all models from before Y2k. The way cars were/are designed is the frame had the body built for it, and each marquee has its own take on the "flesh" body for the "skeleton" frame. This may seem like it provides less creative freedom but what it does supply is a lot of variables for a base vehicle that is assembled with components and materials that are accessible to your average person that are assembled in methods that are merely mass-production-optimized adaptations of procedures that anyone can accomplish themselves with the proper, widely available tools. In this way, the end-user of the produced vehicle may customize their vehicle to exactly the way they want it if the options are not available from the manufacturer, from upholstery and paint to hand-rolled sheet metal body panels, in addition to ready-made solutions such as specialized suspension parts and upgraded engine components.
2000-whatever are probably worth keeping around for people who can program them and don't mind putting up with the boring styling and bland components, but are generally less appealing because of their greater expense and fewer customizable/user serviceable components.
The most fascinating thing about the potential here is that models that didn't exist in the 1980s and etc can be retroactively added to the era-genre. An obvious example is to extend and make more formal a late 1990s DeVille and create a Fleetwood model based upon what set a DeVille and Fleetwood apart in previous eras, alternatively create a small car based on similar cars to the cavalier (such as the Nova) to extend the year-range of the Cimarron into the 1970s, and even the 1960s. (PS, the Cimarron was unrealized in its day because the Cadillac veneer and pricetag prohibited the kind if attention that Chevy Novas and Pontiac Venturas got. The 1980s Cimarron is like a Toyota Cresida or a Honda Accord and can be built similarly with superchargers and suspension)
Heck, one could add Cadillac details to a 1988 Pontiac Firebird and create an F-Body Cadillac muscle car.... goodness knows that precedent has already been set by Les Dunham's Corvorado (Corvette & Eldorado hybrid)
I think Cadillac was able to create a convincing advertising and promotional campaign for these cars to customers who were dreaming of "owning a Caddy" back in their younger days of 1950s but could only do so in 1980s. Perception was everything in this case, even if the cars were not thoroughly developed and rushed into production a bit too soon before problems and issues can be solved and ironed out.
I had an '87 SDV w/ leather. I thought it was a pretty well made car. I even liked the way the doors opened and shut. The interior held up very well. The 4100 was a smooth engine and the car ran fine until one day in 2005 it shit the bed driving home.
hay those front drive Fleetwood's/Deville's were sharply styled for the time
Thank you for sharing this.
What was really sad about these cars is how seniors who were life long Cadillac buyers were duped buying them. These people worked for decades and finally decided to treat themselves but ended up with a horrible underpowered car. Shame on GM for doing that to any customer let alone an older buyer that was someone’s grand parent,
Thank you for posting this!
The power windows certainly didn't pass the test of time either.
Big fan of this era of Cadillac on its own merits, and a Cadillacker (that's a Cadillac Enthusiast) of all eras 20th century plus the 2000 DeVille. Currently I am dailydriving a 1992 Sedan DeVille with a 1977 Sedan DeVille freshly registered after an engine rebuild and a few others being built.
The 1992 is, as I see it, Cadillac's take on an average car with the types of features you'd expect in the larger models. I like it because it is easier to parallel park, making it the choice to drive to Boston or Providence and work the traffic effectively and efficiently, where the '69 Fleetwood Brougham for example gets through by sheer intimidation...after a wait.
The Front Wheel Drive makes it somewhat more difficult to position to park when between two already parked cars (four years of driving this car and i am still not used to that) where Rear Wheel Drive is a breeze.
I am driving this car as it was meant to be driven, 3 of the 4 centercaps have fallen off (one has simply vanished but i still have the other two) and the transmission develops a minor slip every several thousand miles that's easy enough to remedy but makes the interim annoying. These cars are prone to progressively deteriorate one little thing at a time, but the platform is solid for rebuilding once the driver's threshold is met.
I am a lover of heavily customized cars, so naturally the plan is to build the 1992 DeVille that way. Being able to drive this example for so many miles before beginning work allows one to get to know the car and better know how to build it. I like purple. But my '92 is Maroon. I've taken to calling it "Cadillac Car Tune Maroon", (see if you can catch all the things referenced haha) and have come to really appreciate it especially at its glossiest, thereby deciding to embellish this color rather than replace it. The build is a mix of Les Dunham's Superfly and the Japanese Kaido racer/Bosozoku style. That's the best way to describe it in a nutshell.
Next daily, alongside the '77 DeVille, is going to be one of these earlier Fleetwoods.
I like the way you described the '69 Fleetwood Brougham....by sheer intimidation; yes it is a BIG car.
@@nycstarport8542 its long but its low. Its more the presence it gives off than the size; i have a video of the first time my Fleetwood ran under its own power for the first time in 30 years beside several early 00s Volvos and a gold 94 940. Its sort of...small? Like, much shorter than you'd think it is heightwise but it is long. Its the "face" of it, the grille and headlights (we don't talk about the windshield-based bastardization the Cars movies caused) that is imposing, impressive, and yeah, if you're driving something like a Chevette or a Honda Fit, quite intimidating.
That's the '60s styling for ya, the customizations i have planned are gonna change that up and adjust that aspect to a more celebrity "starstruck" sort of reverence. These cars were born for the camera, beautiful at every angle. 😻🤩
If i wanted something to intimidate people out of my way i'd buy a black 2017 ford explorer, put a brush guard on the front, put low-profile plow lights in the windshields and black out the windows...😎🤮
I'm a proud owner of a 1986 Coupe Deville bought new by my Father in law RIP with the infamous 4.1 L. 24 mph on Highway still runs at 179K I did the intake gasket myself but has its original head gaskets I added an Alpine stereo system. Many small parts replaced over the years. wish I could post a photo for you all, in #22 Gossamer light blue metallic 1/2 landu padded vinyl roof, dark blue prima cloth (velvet cloth seats) and interior.
Definitely subscribed. Awesome content.
my 1990 deville is proof they had a lot right beyond the engine, the 90 model has the high power 4.5 and its way better than the wheezy one this video has, but with 180 thousand miles and counting, who knows what comes for my cadillac of tomorrow
Underpowered is an understatement. The 4100 was introduced in 1982 and the reliability was abysmal.
I've only seen one of these fwd Fleetwoods. They were several inches longer in the interior . The rear doors are longer than the deVilles.
AWESOME! I remember when those cars first hit the market.
'Nobody sweats the details. Like GM' (Periods are silent.) 😊
I had a 92 DeVille as a first car and it was a real beauty of a Cadillac car. That 4.9 was one hell of an engine.
Hauled ass. Several people in my family and friends circle had those new. Very nice machines indeed.
I once owned a 92 Deville and then a 2003 Deville after that. Now I own a BMW that is much better built than either one of those.
@@JonathanMoosey 🤣 yeah you enjoy. BMW are junk too. I HAVE 30 YEARS AUTOMOTIVE EXPERIENCE. I KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT ALL CARS.
❤ now those were the days BOC
Cadillac lost their loyal customer base. First the one year only 4-6-8 engines that were a dismal failure. Then with their diesels. Those 1985 Cadillacs retained the miserable HT-4100 engines that came out in 1982. The dealership mechanics despised them. Finally in 1988 they made a better 4.5 engines but by that time people were bailing out. A Japanese car called Lexus was happy to take over. What a shame. They never recovered.
You forgot about the Cimarron or were just being kind by not piling on?
Oh my God, how many Cory Heisterkamps can there be in the world?
You must be the guy that repairs my Amana Radarange glass control panels!
They should have put the 3800 in the Cadillac like they did the Buick and Olds. They are very good engines.
nah, first the v8 was just for marketing. imagine buying a top of the line luxary car and it had a v6. at this time the buick 90* v6s were not redesined for fwd yet. really if they just didnt rush the ht-4100 into production to replace the 4-6-8 engine theyd be fine
At 1:25 they ask Jack about customer expectations and then promptly interrupt him and move on typical GM of the time, we know best and if the engine is noisy will add sound deadening and don't forget the chrome, lots of chrome boys nothing says quality like chrome
GM may be many things - but you can still see many of these H body cars in tip top shape still on the road today
Technically, The FWD Cadillac DeVille, Fleetwood, Buick Electra/Park Avenue and Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight are "C" bodies. The FWD Pontiac Bonneville, Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight and Buick LeSabre are "H" bodies. (Cadillac never had an "H" body model) The differences between the FWD "C" and "H" bodies were mainly wheelbase length and "greenhouses" (rooflines). It might seem trivial but from 1959 until 1984 those also were the major differences between the RWD "B" and "C" bodies. GM gotta GM! LOL.
I have a 1990 Olds 98 Regency with only 52 thousand . I love it.
Wait a minute...those are Oldsmobiles being dipped & painted!
GM hoped you didn't notice!
It’s unfortunate that with all of GM’s resources they continued to build land yachts that didn’t appeal to the future generation and other demographics. The European automakers cashed in on the American gas crisis. GM just had too many geezers at the helm. The demand for SUVs in the 1990’s brought GM’s glory back for a little bit and the Escalade saved Cadillac.
I had an 86 deville as my first car in 2002. It was a fantastic car, with a terrible engine.
Ultimately I scrapped it because it would never start in cold weather anymore. Had about 210,000 miles, no rust, and mostly everything else worked except for a couple movements on the power bench seat.
That’s the weeks and months before the 3rd braking light was put in and mandatory in 1986.
The Marriage*
Joining engine and chassis to body
Birth of a car? More like death of a division, as their dwindling sales and market share showed in the '80s.
My mom had an 86 Coupe deVille.... typical 4100 motor death early on....they had the engine rebuilt and she kept the car until 1996 when it was traded for a new Firebird LOL. only had 80k miles on it when traded... that car was super quiet for its age... just gutless and of course the engine itself was terrible... but roomy inside.
Hell I'll subscribe to this channel 🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
this wasn't "birth of a car"this was" birth of a blunder"cadillac sales didn't increase till '89 when they introduced the redesigned devilles but than took a beating on the eldorado and seville
And the customer decides he’s not too terribly impressed with a small Cadillac so he goes across the street to the Lincoln dealership and by the 1985 Lincoln town car.
With the super reliable Ford 302 V8, and the durable AOD transmission. Instead of shelling out their hard earned money on that terrible "Cadillac" HT-4100 V8 and the built like a deck of cards THM 440 T4 transaxle. In all fairness, the transmission would be fairly good by 1987 and excellent by 1988. The lousy HT-4100 would be reworked into the very good 4.5 liter V8 from 1988-1990 and later on, the excellent and durable powerhouse 4.9 liter V8 from 1991-1995.
There was a 157 robots took a 157 human jobs away GM needs to understand that if nobody has a job they came afford the fucking shit the robots are building
It's a trade off. You still wash your laundry by hand? Or boil hot water for a bath? Probably not.....if anything too much labor was their downfall
I would never classify these as “world class.” Considering all the testing that went into this design, the build quality was exceptionally low - even for a domestic. What’s more is that the targeted demographic GM was hoping to attract with the new FWD design largely turned their noses up to the new Sedan de Ville. That being said, I remember as a teenager at the time being very intrigued by a front wheel drive deVille. The mid-to-late 1980’s was a pivotal time in the automotive world, and the new Sedan de Ville definitely fit in with the “contemporary spirit of Cadillac” in its attempt to move along with the times. What you had in these (more so after the first couple of model years) was all the advanced tech for the time, as well as the smooth, heavy Cadillac ride, all within a much smaller package, and even as a teenager I thought that was pretty cool. As I say, the overall build quality could have been much better, and hindsight is certainly 20/20, but I’m still super excited to see this iteration of Sedan de Ville finally catching the spotlight. I’m looking forward to seeing whether or not these cars go up in value like the early 80’s Eldorado and Seville have.
All the 4.1 had bad oil pumps.
I have an 85 eldo with the 4100 but man is it a pain in the ass to maintain the car is beautiful but Cadillac really screwed up with that horrible engine
And then came the Northstar lol
Buick got it right on these. Cadillac, Olds and Pontiac, not so much.
Calling these things Cadillac was a bit of a stretch
The 4.1 engine was simply unacceptable
And what about that diesel? Lol
For all those complaining about this vehicle keep in mind the only reason they went to this design is not because it was the best but because it would meet the mpg targets dictated by the federal overlords. At the same time epa also dictated the date by which these "standards" would be met.
In the end it was engineer to govt requirements first, then second, try to make it appeal to what the customer actually wanted. That's inverted. Customer needs and requirements should have been first. Blame the bureaucrats first not the engineers, who were trying as best as they could
Gm allowed a lot of bullshit to go down the assembly line
And these Cadillacs weren't it....
After seeing that beautiful Cadillac at 9:50, I lost all interest in watching the rest of the video
I bought this 85 Deville, worst car I have ever owned!
Was it the HT 4100 engine?
@@highspeed1865 Probably.That engine was crap! The Buick version of this platform (3.8 Liter V6 Electra/Park Avenue) was the better buy, And it even LOOKED better!
You should have bought the Buick (Electra/Park Avenue) version of this platform. MUCH more reliable drivetrain! The Buick 3.8 liter V6 was WAY better than ANY of the crap engines that GM shoved into Cadillacs in the 80s!
I was service manager at our local Cadillac Dealer when these cars were new. They were horrible cars. Very poorly engineered!
@@3713msg The drivetrain was shit, The rest of the car was OK. Better to have had the Buick or Oldsmobile version - Better motors AND a bit cheaper!
this cadillac was weak. Lincolns rwd panther platform proved to be the best over time
And yet, Cadillac still out sold Lincoln.
What's the best thing that ever happened to a Cadillac? They dropped Chevrolet V8 engines in them. 1990 (optional Chevrolet 350. Base engine this year was the Oldsmobile 307) 1991-1996!!! Applies only to the rear wheel drive big bodies.
Cadillac made very good V8s prior to 1982. I owned a few before then and were solid reliable engines.
I've owned 8 Cadillacs in my lifetime...1985 Sedan DeVille 1995 Seville 1998 Deville 2001 Deville 2002 Deville 2005 XLR 2009 CTS-V and 2011 DTS...the WORST Cadillac i've owned by far would have to be my 85 Sedan Deville...loved the body style loved the interior but HATED the damn HT-4.100 V8 engine...It died on me on a trip back from California and i ended up parting it out....
Just about every one of these is in the junkyard now. They didn't last long
Yes. Have had a 1989. At the age of 10-12 it quickly starts becoming old. I wonder about that, what they are talking about in this movie. Most of that didn't come true.
For example: Were is the "estaunishing servicebiliy" when you have to replace the spark plugs of the rear row of cylinders?
But at least, I loved (and still miss) its classic American ride quality (even with its total lack of any power...)
They were in the junkyards in 1997. They've already been recycled twice in China into bicycles and air conditioners.
@@haigthomasbabaian6241 lol. Truth!!!!
And made one of the worst engines 4100HT. I love Cadillac but they really tarnished their image in the Eighties.
These were good vehicles, the problem was (and still is) stupid drunk mechanics messing up every vehicle they touch.
None of this explains the diesel model! Lol
A horrid period for Cadillac.
When workers actually dressed for work.
GM screwed up in the late 70s and early 80s with the front-wheel drive crap with the wheezy old-school low-tech engines they were stuck with while the Germans and the Japanese slaughtered the big 3 with better handling and better built cars with a higher level of quality and attention to detail and more advanced engines than the big 3 ever came up with and were always caught unawares about for years. Those others had better suspensions and better brakes (even 4-wheel discs) and more advanced drivetrains when the big 3 still relied on the same old technology that worked ok but not up to par with the competition. They took too long to catch up.
The fucking robots really screwed the pooch when they painted my fucking 96 Aurora because the fucking clear code is such garbage that it's fucking cracking
It's 27 years old dude. That would be like somebody in 1985 complaining that the paint is faded on their 1959 olds 98
coat
So much time wasted on a product that was mediocre at launch and cheaply made on the inside. This would barely have passed as a Chevrolet. The start of Cadihack was here with this worthless product. The car's overall design was a yawner. It was as if they wasted nothing on the product and just punted on the least offensive option. While Olds and Buick seemed to have something that looked luxurious, Cadihack looked cheap, cheap, cheap and was not well engineered. Cadihack has never recovered.
Transverse V8 Front Wheel Drive didn't work too well huh? 🤣 Ask any mechanic who worked on those cars.
You know instead of manufacturers working on safer cars how about we just invest in safer drivers driver education in this country is an absolute fucking shit show if you can fall to mirror you get a driver's license
Bla Bla Bla …One of the worst Cadillacs I ever owned. The HT4100 engine was a horrible dog.
They wouldn't dare show so many white men in suits these days.