How to fix a Mini Cooper that won't link to a scan tool
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- This is an amateur case study of a 2005 Gen I R50 Mini Cooper with an inability to communicate with various diagnostic scan tools. The overall design of the communication pathways in the Mini are discussed, and a diagnostic strategy to solve this problem is demonstrated. Ultimately this repair was done with no parts and no computer programming, but hours of time was spent searching for the cause.
DIY Auto repair is a potentially dangerous adventure, both with reference to personal safety and also in terms of the possibility of causing damage to the vehicle. Before you attempt to fix your own car, you should honestly evaluate your skills and tools and decide whether you have the stomach to accept risk. Repair procedures are rarely as easy or uncomplicated as they may be portrayed on RUclips. The real test of a mechanic is the depth of his skill set, allowing him to dig himself out of difficulty when complications arise. An experienced mechanic will also use a work flow that reduces the chance of secondary issues. Any misadventure you encounter if you decide to accept the risk of home repair is your responsibility.
The brief audio clip at the end is River Meditation, by Audionautix.
River Meditation by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...)
Artist: audionautix.com/
Rob Ramsay, in the thread below, suggested I search newtisinfo ( www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/ ) for more details that are not included in the paper dealer service manual. What a brilliant resource! For those who followed this video along, the central splice point for the diagnostic bus line is connector X9397, it is said to be behind the instrument panel in the above reference. The connector I found above the left front wheel is X6011, and pinout diagrams are available at newtisinfo as well. I love how that database is free, searchable, and extensive.
spelunkerd hey Dave, are you on FB? If not can you email me @ Jaymacs2@gmail.com Chen is looking for your contact info to invite you to our testing group. Me and bunch of other you tubers are testing. Happy New Year my friend
Newtis is unfortunately no longer available, BMW did not like it being up
@@djhatstand7312 Gee, I'm sorry to hear that. In the US there is right to repair legislation, but evidently consumer protection is not a priority for BMW. I'll never own one after learning that.
This is one of tjose videos that I save to rewatch later, often several times. So much incidental information, especially things I don't fully understand yet. Very well done and much appreciated by this subscriber.
So much work for one broken wire. Great systematic diagnostic approach. Eric O would be proud. :)
Kudos to you Dave for your persistence in finding the root cause of the problem! Keep up the good work!
You present your case studies in a very organized and easy to understand approach. Great camera angles, solid commentary and always enjoyable, logical manner. I can only imagine the labor costs if this has gone to a dealer or shop. Your son owes you a beer at least. Excellent work.
Great points, this kind of open ended work is not friendly to a professional shop that needs to charge for time. I wonder if this was investigated in the past without finding the cause. In fairness to the previous owner, a professional shop might have abandoned the search before ringing his repair bill up too high.
@@spelunkerd Very true.
One of the best and most informative diagnostic videos I've seen. Thanks for takin the time to explain your processes so clearly.
Great video! I thoroughly enjoyed it from beginning to end. It's a good thing it was your son's car and not a customers. It's difficult to explain to a customer why you have to charge so much for a broken wire.
Erik, it's kind of you to stop by! For anybody watching, check out Advanced Level Auto, it's a brilliant channel full of thoughtful and professional diagnostic auto repair videos.
What an impressive display of diagnostic skills. As an electrician of 30 yrs. I find your wire repair as opposed to replace, more than acceptable
God bless you sir, I enjoy learning how the cab system works, how to diagnose, and step by step detailed thought process to pinpoint where the problem was. Thank you for the education and taking us along for the ride thank you.
Your friends from warm sunny Fort Lauderdale Florida USA
Great video! Your diagnostic skills and repairs are top-tier! Bar none!
TakeCare,
Bill
Thanks, Bill!
Fantastic, thanks. Trying to track down some odd electrical problems on my R50, very helpful video.
Had this exact issue, overlooked removing the powersteering pump and sat on it for 4 months before getting around to it. For anyone wondering, disconnect the powersteering pump by raising the car, removing the powersteering fan and removing the 3 pin connector on the top of the pump. The violet and white wire is facing you, and should be easy to identify.
Great to watch someone skilled in his trade.
Thanks, man. I'm not a pro, but I do try to emulate the work flow that professionals use.
Very well put together video, if I had to give any advice it would be to use a SPOT light on a tripod and point it in direction of work, I have tried all kinds of flood lights and have found that spot lights work best by far.
What an outstanding video. A very professional well done inspection. A valuable source of informations also. Thank you so much.
Excellent explanation in how to approach to this Problem
Master class! Amazing knowledge
seriously he best video I have watched in a long while, thank you mate.
What a kind remark, thank you.
Great to watch. I'm trying to fix similar. Thanks for the hints.
Excellent step by step diagnosis. Sometimes connecting a buzzer (similar to your test light idea) to the suspected shorted wire and supplying voltage to the other wire of the buzzer can make for a great inexpensive short finder as you wiggle the wires to narrow down the problem area.
Oh taking apart these plastic electrical connectors these days probably requires its own certification so thanks for showing those parts.
Nice tools/toys too (Maxisys, PP butane torch etc) :) I don't work on enough cars these days to upgrade but sure would be nice to have!
Wise remarks, I agree. I actually made a little buzzer (and a video), to do just that. It helps when doing a 'wiggle test' on a harness, listening for static noise when one moves the bad connection. The only reason I hesitated to use it is the fact that at the beginning I wondered if it was grounding inside a module. I worried that a long run with the buzzer on might cause more harm to an area that was damaged already. In the end, as we expected it would have been safe to use it, especially at the low current level that a buzzer and light call for.
Fantastic! it's produced like this old house.
I swear I was watching ivan, or eric o!! Damn fine work sir.
What a fine compliment, thank you. Professional techs have so many more pressures, it is a privilege to watch them work so efficiently.
Thank you sir for this master class. Best regards.
You are a master sir, god bless you.
Nice job my friend, very easy to follow. That was a new level auto approach Keith would of asked you where the water is but guess you found the crusties lol... Jay
That's a fine compliment, thank you. As you know Keith does this every day, with a work flow that is surprisingly efficient. I could never work that fast, the professional treadmill game is nasty!
No water involved this time. Just crusties.
outstanding! thank you for the video greetings from isla mujeres mexiko
Definately deep expertise, respect and fond about yoursel Mr
Thank you.
You are brilliant and I wish I could be mentored by you.
Amazing! You deserve more than a like and a subscription! Thanks for doing this stuff!
Surprised at the high level diagnostic skills that were employed. One more candidate for Ericos bandwagon.
Thanks, Tom.
Dave
Good thought pattern.
Great diag my friend. I have no comm also with scan on a 2004 with any scan tool. Time to attack this. Ugh. Thanks for the video
Great job sir. Thanks for sharing! 👍
You sure put a lot of time and effort into diagnosing that problem. If only your son knew. lol Good advice to wear a condom when soldering because I have experienced several mishaps due to the arousal of finding the broken wire that was causing an issue. 😂 Have a good one Dave!
Ha ha ha, you made my day!
Good video.
Did I just watch a seminar on the Mini electrical system?
Waooo! What a job !
Great video. I’m using it right now to troubleshoot a similar problem. I’m using a GODIAG GT100+ breakout box with a P200 smart hook probe. Test port #7 on the GT100+ also powers up my test light as it did yours. I also disconnected the DME, ABS & power steering (pump and cooling fan)[I couldn’t find an actual EHPAS module so I’m assuming it’s the electronics inside the pump housing?]. Test light still lit up when pulsed. Once the round 10 pin harness behind the driver’s headlight is disconnected the test light no longer lights up. I used my DMM to do a continuity test on all 10 pins to ground all only one showed connection. The large black wire with yellow stripe which is the starter ignition trigger. Shows open once disconnected from the starter. Test light still lights up when the round plug is reconnected with that starter wire disconnected. I’M TRULY LOST NOW. Any suggestions?
I'm helping a neighbor with a 2004 mini (base model) that has erratic idle and stalls. I'm not able to establish communication with the ECU. I'm betting whatever is causing the running issue is causing the OBD port issue, but it could always be two separate problems. I'll report back if I'm able to solve it.
Any luck with this? I seem to have a very similar issue with no comms to ECU.
At 11:09, you show checking the breakout box to see that the ground was removed from the circuit, but the breakout box may not have been plugged into the dlc (you can see the connector on the floor and the battery voltage display is not lit.) That could easily steer you in the wrong direction for sure! Awesome video though, I felt like we were all on the journey together.
Ha ha ha, I love to see that people follow so closely. You made me think about this moment. At 11:05 I can see the male plug for the box plugged into the DLC, but as you say the box has no power. Like most breakout boxes, this one has a male end and a female end, so you can plug in your scan tool to the female end and watch as the data is exchanged. The female end is unplugged, which was appropriate for the circumstance. The Power Probe does have power, its screen is lit and it displays a voltage. I think the power for the DLC comes through that connector that was disconnected, it is the only explanation that makes any sense. At first I wondered if I had disconnected the battery, but I would have remembered that because the power probe was still functional. Even without power, since it was plugged into the DLC, continuity with the proximal end of the plug is maintained so the test is still valid. It is rewarding to see people like you follow this along at a high level, thanks again for offering feedback. It makes the effort to do videos worthwhile.
@@spelunkerd The way you make the video and show the logic behind your moves, is what makes your videos awesome to watch. So I thank you! I quit watching cable tv shows that focus on drama and nonsense, and instead subscribe to channels such as yours, Eric O, ScannerDanner and the whole similar group!
@@ablackformula well done sir and congrats. Best wishes.
Have a 2006 r56, got similar problem.
I'm having a similar problem with my newly acquired 2006 Mini Cooper. I've tried two different ODBII readers, (an Autel and a Konnwei), neither can get a response from the car. A friend who has a Bluetooth OBD connection to the scanning software on his laptop is able to get the car to talk to the laptop but it seems that there's a problem when it comes to OBDII readers and my particular vehicle.
How does he read it with the computer?
what do you mean Amateur, some pros would have given up or guess at what part to change til they got to the right one, would have had all new parts and its still wouldn't have worked LOL Great job I have a 2010 mini seems these have a problem with water from the sunroof drains clogging and drowning the modules, footwell in my case.
Well done :-D, that was a pig to find.
Modern cars with there fragile serial bus just waiting to be cut/shorted.
I imagine that in a few years every module will have a dam blutooth transceiver, hackers will be standing by to cause havock.
Hopefully that thought never happens.
Eric O should wear a deer stalker hat, i call him Eric Holmes, he will track it down :-D
i have a 2005 mini S just have two ELM327 but just dont conect to the ECU, i check all the connections like the vid, but just dont luck, only the fuse of the stering fan i have to change it, but the other is fine. :(
My 2005 cooper has the same issue. Wont connect to any of the generic scan tools. I was wondering if your mini said it supported obd2 on sticker etc. Mine has no such sticker, so I figured it was just not Implemented in 2005. But maybe I have a similar issue to you. What scan tool did you use? Thanks for any help.
All vehicles sold after 1996 are obd II compliant. The tool I used is Autel Maxisys MS906BT. Yeah, you could follow the pathway I did, see what's on the communication line.
@@spelunkerd Thanks for your reply. It is very strange that it does not have the obd2 compliance sticker. It was a New Zealand new mini cooper s ( r53). (I guess just partially put together here) .It obviously has the obd2 port under the dash, but as I say, non of the cheap bluetooth readers work, I even purchased an expensive one with no luck (tried around 3 or so).
However, my friend was able to get some info from a cable he had and his laptop (not sure what software or cable he had, it was a while ago) I'm guessing it was reading the Can info not the obd2 info. It's all quite confusing. Some things I read on the net, and info in some code reader advertisements seem to point to pre 2006 minis having issues. It's very frustrating not being able to find definitive info. If anyone else has had similar problems, please post it here so we can all learn from it.
Thanks for your reply.
Hi. 2006 mini with OBD port faulty indicating engine issue as it lights up erratically; have initial issue with my daughter's resistance - and resignation that it is accepted - and expected to not get an idea of price for a replacement OBD; the port can be fixed but may not solve the issue of the engine light coming on....that it seems fair indication previous owner "pulled wires around a bit" and general consensus is to BIN it for scrap? UK....why does a service of a car fail to pick up on such tampering and why then not mentioned.. Positive constructive suggestions on a cheap run around alternative is my next question. Thankyou for your video...but it seems redundant with a defeated child and both of us not car savvy
The weak spot on these Mini's is corrosion caused by water entry, often through the sun roof. Those sun roof drains that run down the pillars on each side get clogged with leaves, then water drips down to the connector I showed in the video. Fixing that can require hours of effort, which could be very expensive in an old car. Good luck!
There wasnt anything amateurish in your case study. Thanks for sharing, have you checked out " newtisinfo " bmw electrical schematics, its free.
Thanks, man!
I spent some time today going over this, it is a brilliant resource, much better than the dealers service manual I bought on Ebay, and way better than the Bentley manual! Gotta love the way it is a searchable database, much easier to find details. For example you can search an individual fuse and get wiring diagrams and links to devices, and also more practical advice on how to service parts. I also found the critical details regarding the two connectors I was searching for, with pinouts and connector locations that were not included in the dealer service manual. I'll pin those details in the top of this thread, for people who come later. Thanks again, Rob.
Dave
Unfortunately now taken down due to BMW 😢
I’m trying to learn about all this (I have a 2004 Mini Cooper s). Can bis, then K bus then… D BUS?!?! I was like, oh no not another bus 🙈
And yeh that white connector clip 🙈
How did you get slack on the cable you soldered, I can't pull it at all to be able to work on it
I think a previous mechanic was there before me and loosened it up. Just be very careful how you route the wires after you're done, since the right wheel drive shaft is below that heat shield and you don't want wires dangling near that spinning shaft, or near the heat shield. When the motor is torqued, expect the entire engine to rock over, so there needs to be enough slack to permit a shift of the motor on its motor mounts with higher revs. You might want to see how much the motor moves when you rev the engine to be sure the motor mounts aren't too worn. The wires to the starter are zip tied in place, you may need to cut zip ties to get enough slack. As you saw, I spliced in a 3" segment of wire since I didn't have enough length to solder it directly together. Good luck!
I hope u don't mind if I ask a question. I have an 03 R53 with the same problem. I do find a purple with white stripe wire in the round connector by the headlight. Do you know or have an opinion as to if this wire would be routed same on an R53 as on the car In the video (ie could it have the same exact issue)? Thanks-18:21
Probably, but there's risk if you get yourself over your head. I think that wire is vulnerable to trauma because of the heat of the engine and because the engine rocks back and forth on the engine mounts, stretching those little wires.
Some one please help me!!!! I’m using my multi meter on ohms on the plug in under the hood both sides show ol on all most every pin. Am I doing the test wrong or do I have a hell of a mess
You have to disconnect any lines from power, and discharge any capacitors in the line if you're using a multimeter to test for continuity or resistance. Active testing with a test light is usually a better, more sensitive test as long as you're careful not to subject circuits to more current than they are designed to carry.
@@spelunkerd I have the battery and the ecu completely out of the car. How do I discharge the capacitors?
@@jaysonweaver3857 Most discharge on their own over a few minutes. To speed that up you can touch the pos and neg wires together after the battery is completely out.
@@spelunkerd the battery has been out the last two days. I have a auto range multi meter set on the ohms setting. Most of my pins and ports show ol in the round plug that separate the engine compartment and interior.
@@jaysonweaver3857 A breakout box makes this a lot easier. I got a cheap one on Amazon, but to my surprise the pin numbers were wrongly labelled. So I had to relabel and verify the pin numbers, and after that it works OK.
What a fantastic, informative video! Thank you for making it and sharing your troubleshooting technique, teaching the viewer as you go along. I am going to re-watch it.
Is there any chance you could document the equipment and supplies you used in this video?
That round connector near the left headlight (@15:05 ruclips.net/video/gQJjRlP_poY/видео.html), that you indicate you could not find in the 3400 page BMW manual (@19:43), is documented in the Bentley manual. One may find it in the section "Electrical Component Locations" on p. ECL-23, item O, "Main Engine Harness Connector."
Cheers!
The test light is off the shelf, you just need to know what resistance it has to current, by applying 12V and measuring current draw with an ammeter. Since resistance varies with applied current you can't just measure resistance with a DVOM. Some have huge resistance, some not enough. Most LED test lights have too much resistance but they can be helpful when testing circuits that are vulnerable. I did a video showing how to evaluate test lights. The oscilloscope is made by PICO, but you could get away with one much cheaper. The scan tool I show is made by Autel, 906BT. You don't need a high end one like that. The breakout box is a cheap knockoff, but I discovered that the leads are wrongly labelled, so I had to test and label them correctly. And the Power Probe is helpful to accurately measure and apply relatively safe voltage without using a long jumper wire, but it is not necessary. Overall those tools are worth thousands, but if you know what you're doing you could get by with a multimeter, a test light, a small scan tool with live data, jumper wires, and some hand tools. The brightest technicians can get by with just a few tools they know well.
Dear God man! Buy yourself a decent soldering iron! Easily make yourself more issues to fix!!! No need to break out the oxy- acetylene for that tiny wire!!
I've had dozens of soldering irons through the years, and even the best bench irons take a minute to warm up. This butane iron by Power Probe is really expensive, but it is also the best soldering iron I've ever owned. Lightning fast.
Great video. I’m using it right now to troubleshoot a similar problem. I’m using a GODIAG GT100+ breakout box with a P200 smart hook probe. Test port #7 on the GT100+ also powers up my test light as it did yours. I also disconnected the DME, ABS & power steering (pump and cooling fan)[I couldn’t find an actual EHPAS module so I’m assuming it’s the electronics inside the pump housing?]. Test light still lit up when pulsed. Once the round 10 pin harness behind the driver’s headlight is disconnected the test light no longer lights up. I used my DMM to do a continuity test on all 10 pins to ground all only one showed connection. The large black wire with yellow stripe which is the starter ignition trigger. Shows open once disconnected from the starter. Test light still lights up when the round plug is reconnected with that starter wire disconnected. I’M TRULY LOST NOW. Any suggestions?
It sounds like you have a short to ground on that Dbus line, much like I did. Trace those wires as they wrap around the engine. I believe movement of the motor on its mounts puts strain on the wiring harness, and that coupled with heat causes the small communication wires to fray. You could check out those motor mounts by reving the motor with brake applied to see how much it moves. Your scan tool should work if you temporarily disconnect the line at that round 10 pin connector, which will possibly offer more clues.
@@spelunkerd thanks for the quick reply. The short to ground has to be on that side like you said because the test light no longer lights up when it’s disconnected. I checked for a short to ground on each of the ten pins with my DMM and the only one that showed up is on the small starter wire (while it’s still connected to the starter). I disconnected it from the starter and it showed as an open. I also connected the DMM and turn the ignition to start to confirm that it is indeed the starter igniter wire. NONE of the other nine wires on that engine side shows a short to ground. BTW that ignition wire is only showing short because it is grounded to the starter housing. I find it strange that a wire that gets intermittent 12vdc should be connected to a body ground. Is that normal in some cases? I also disconnected each of those sets of wire harnesses from their sensors and fan, even the upstream & downstream sensors. I had that same bundle in my hand loosely (while disconnected) not touching anything and the test light still lit up. Can you see why I’m lost now. This thing is kicking my butt.
@@ConradC-g2g It is entirely normal for a multimeter to see ground on that starter control wire. The coil on the control side of the solenoid has very low resistance, and the multimeter can't see the inductance of the coil that limits flow. So the multimeter sees the pathway right through the coil.
@@spelunkerd thanks bud. That at least explains the ignition wire situation. I’m going to the junkyard soon to get a 10 pin round harness to use as a tester. I should be able to connect it to the engine side using the same probe plus test light method to see which wire is shorted to ground right?
@@ConradC-g2g Always bear in mind the problem you're trying to solve, and stay on track. Many circuits are switched on the hot side so they are continuously grounded downstream. I wouldn't consider ground on a random wire to be a red flag by itself. For example almost all lighting circuits normally have a ground detectable with a multimeter through the filament of the light. Likewise many fan circuits, window regulators, door locks, horns, etc are normally grounded through the end device. So, define the problem circuit based on the symptoms the car is having, and use the wire color and diagrams to guide you. In this case my problem was a failure of a communication line identified when my scan tools wouldn't interface. I knew that circuit should not be grounded so when I did find a ground there I traced the wire back until I found the frayed wire. It's easy to get side tracked when solving a puzzle like this so stay focused on what you know is wrong.