How to Install Mortar for a Shower Pan Quick and Easy
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Demonstration on how to mix mortar quick (with bucket mortar mixer) and install dry pack mortar for a shower pan/shower
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Link for the Bucket Mortar Mixer
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Why would the height around the perimeter be level?If you must have at least a quarter inch per foot.wouldnt the wall furthest from the drain be higher in elevation to keep the 1/4 inch per foot true?
The only way I can see the perimeter being perfectly level is if your were doing a circle pan with a drain in the center...even in a square application,should the corners be slightly higher then the rest of the perimeter?..I really need to know.
Chris, no man, you just go to the furthest wall from the drain giving it the 1/4inch per foot slope and from that point you go level all around the walls
@@cesarrivera8881 so any walls closer to the drain will actually have a slope greater than 1/4" per foot, but no direction will have less than that? Makes sense
Dude there was no pre-slope under that liner, flat as a pancake!!! If you pre-tested your pan, filled with water for 24 hours, then drain the water out you would definitely have standing water. This leads to mold and mildew issues down the road. MUST DO A PRE-SLOPE !!!!!!!!
😂
This is what I am arguing with my contractors. I thought you slope it first then add the liner. Water will just collect if not. Right? Also my old contractor just red guarded the seems not the entire board for some reason. He thought cement board didn’t need it but it does.
@@AM2PMReviews Yes, you will actually have a pre slope first, then liner, then your final slope of motor, on top on liner with a 1/4 inch of drop per foot. The reason you have a pre-slope is that eventually water will migrate through your tile, grout, and motor. Once it hits your liner. you want it to flow towards your drains weep holes. If your contractor blocks your weep holes with mortar instead of small gravel, you will end up with problems. Ask your contractor to explain weep holes, if he can't, its time for a new contractor. If your job is being inspected by your city, they want to see your pan filled with water over night to check for leaks. they then pull out the stopper and watch how efficiently it drains out. if it puddles, your screwed. good luck. P.S. Redgaurd everything..... twice.
@@shammydog1217 yes I thought this was the rule of thumb but I guess some guys say capilary action prevents water from flowing even with a pre-slope. even though Oatey recommends it.
That’s why you use a membrane over your mud bed up to drain depending on system. Kerdi liner with their drain it’s easy . Just build mud pan after a day or 2 install Kerdi membrane on top do corners and ready to tile ..if water goes through tile it’ll go on the membrane and the slope of mud pan will take it right to drain . And if you seal properly and do it right water shouldn’t get through it .
So im only 25 been working alone for three years now now I told a builder I work with yeah I can do tile thinking it was a floor because thats what I do is flooring and he said great you know jow to build a mud pan lol hell no but i said yeah anyways lol now I'm trying to learn it all
Not hard to do, take your time and mix it to a dry snowball consistency. Use small and large levels and make sure its levels around the perimeter.
this applies to second floor bathroom shower area too?
Is that “ S” cement?
Yoo this mortar is dry af
Great job..myself i make my mud just a little bit more wet only because i feel i know what im doing and its quicker for me,,,only because my life is pans & tile..if i was telling someone new i would tell them what you just showed...wish youtub was around when i started..lol..great job to the guy doing the slope...your a good teacher....
How’s the water going to drain away from the walls without a presloped mortar bed to start things off. It should be a presloped bed, liner and then your final mud bed for your tile. Just tore a second floor shower out that was done like this and the mortar stayed wet for so long due to no preslope that it was nothing but wet sand when pulling it out. This just sets the homeowner up with a rotten situation. You don’t need the peagravel because the water that wicks through will never make it to the drain to even use the weep holes.
I did a dry pack following the directions on the bag and it was too dry - some of the mortar mix just flaked away. Went back and redid with more water and it's nice and solid now.
I did a preslope and had the "dry pack" about the consistency of the video and it was too dry. It flaked away like you said so I had to tear out re-do. I made it a little bit wetter the next go round and it worked much better. Be careful not to make it too wet.
Finally after a thousand hack videos someone actually knows how to do a proper mud pan, i.e. "dry pack"and pea gravel around the drain. Cudos to you man! There's a ton of so called wanna be tile setters who should watch this and go do the same!
Thank you sir! appreciate that
If you really want to do it right would be to do a preslope under the rubber membrane then install your membrane and do what he just did .
Now a days we use kerdi drains and drypack and kerdi on top which is a way better system then this but we did do it that way for years it still works
@@BMan-up3qj Yes. There is a video on here saying never to put the liner outside the cement board and it shows the bottom of the cement board soaking wet, but I bet there wasn't a sloped mortar bed under it to flow the water away from the walls to the weep holes.
Why do people do the walls first?
Why do you set your walls in your floor?
Do you tile your walls first to?
30 yrs in tile business,good job!
Thank you sir
Best fkng to the point and short vid Thank You sir. Great technique with the slope and it WORKS EVERYTIME
Couple of concerns. The pan liner appears to be flat on the floor without any pre-slope. The arguments about pre-slope are endless, so this may or may not be an issue. I put in pre-slopes because there is no negative to doing so. The bigger concerns are around the wall board. Wall board (Hardi-board, Durarock, etc) is water resistant, not water proof. Preferentially the whole wall board should be coated in 2 coats of red guard or aqua defense to water proof it. This does not create a problem with tiling. Second concern is the wall board is buried in the mortar pan. The pan does get water into it. That’s why the liner is required by both code and good sense. When the wall board is buried in the mortar it is subject to wicking... plenty of examples online of wall board buried in mortar and pulled down later with black mold reaching up a couple of feet thanks to wicking. Lay the mortar bed and then install the shower floor tile to the edges of the mortar bed. Then install the wall board with a 1/8” or so gap above the tile... no contact... do not fill the air gap with thinset when placing the wall tile (be careful about buttering the back of the lowest row of wall tiles, you don’t want to accidentally fill the air gap. Position the wall tile against the floor tile and grout properly. The air gap between the floor tile and the wall board will help ensure the wall board will not up water.
You obviously don't get how a shower pan works
@@seangilliam4050 I like discussion and learning. What do you see as incorrect in my comment? It’s been a year since i posted it, but to the best information I can find, it remains correct. I’d really like to know specific issues that you see. Simply saying “You obviously don’t get how a shower pan works” doesn’t explain the what / why of your concerns
That's exactly how I've done it. The discussion of pre slope is endless but if you know what you are doing the slope from the mortar shower pan is sufficient. Always start by using your shower pan liner and putting it up at least 6 inches up to the walls. I let mine dry then install backer board after letting it dry at least for one whole day. 1/4 inch off the mortar bed. Or as tile specify. After having a of that done I coat the whole wall and shower pan with regard. Haven't had any problems.
Companies like Oatey and other professionals do say to slope the pan liner. Just saying. Will it leak without it? Probably not. Will it retain more moisture than it should? Probably.
Also good point about not imbedding cement board. It’s just a wick.
Things like Schluter/wedi solve all this by having impervious sloped floor and waterproof boards, etc. Wedi pan is a small fortune though.
@@seangilliam4050 And you obviously do not understand how osmosis works. You absolutely do NOT bury cement board in your mortar bed.
I'm replacing a shower pan and cement boards that failed Welcome to not more than five years ago I'm very concerned about Burying my walls under the pan if I do my floor pan first then install my walls how do I make sure my walls don't belly out I got a wedge women Between the Sheets from one side to the other and hope for the best what's the best way to do this I'm very confused
I’m no professional but ,there is a video out there that says floor first always. They said it will almost be a guarantee leak ,if you did the walls first. Any info about this would be great.
I don't understand why there is a second bucket with the bottom cut out. What is the benefit? Also, is that a sand mix (like Quickrete yellow bag w/red stripe)
That second bucket is a MUST! Sal Diblasi gave me that trick. Think about this...if you fill the bucket to the rim and try to mix it, the drypack mortar will spill out. If you use a second bucket with the bottom cut out, you can lift that second bucket up so that you can mix a full bucket without mortar spilling out. You then slowly pull that second bucket up and off and you have the fullest bucket possible to pour in you pan. You should definitely try it and you'll see what I mean. 👊
Use a wheelbarrow, mix 2 bags at a time with a hoe/shovel. Less mixing less lifting buckets and save from buying burned up drills because the tension bogs down their motors. If mixing a major amount like 5-6 pans in a day or doing a whole floor, buy/rent a tow behind mortar mixer.
Everyone is a mr knowitall these days
Thinset a level backer board around the perimeter approx 2 3/8 set your drain approx inch and a half these are all approx you can then pack your floor mix then screed from the perimeter to top of drain then once your done spin your drain up to thickness of tile
The video I’ve been looking for! Thank you! You might consider adding to the title or tag something about the shower pan being an unusual geometry. It’s unique to your video. Might help you get more traffic to this video. ☺️👍 Thanks again!
Great video, love this guy. No nonsense simple straight forward explanation, perfect results.
🌿🌿thank you.
Nice… after it dries… you red coat it? N waterproof it? Then tile…
Do your perimeter, screed off drain then turn your drain to to desired height. Way easier than trying to screed around drain
Apex floor designs LLC/Jason Morgan Good tip! 👍
What is screed?
@@malawigold747 screed is a point of reference to run your boards off of. As you shave the mud down with your straight edges a screed is a point that gives you an absolute to work off of
@@Apexjasonmorganllc thx!
That's how I do it , poor more wet with some eisenwall and a little plastic cement , let it cure for a week either redgard or throroseal , works Everytime
Didn’t look like the membrane was laid on a preslope. That would not pass code here.
Otherwise, good video.
I was a bit confused how to check with a level and you cleared it right up!
Assuming you had a pre slope underneath that pan liner, this is a very good video. I've been packing pans for a long while and you did a great job. That is exactly how I like to do my pans.
Except the backer board is in the actual dry pack around the perimeter....never do this because of wicking...better to leave the backer ½ inch to an inch above dry pack
No pre-slope necessary. He just sloped it
@@cairney6308 that's what I heard too. But then I wonder: what holds the dry pack in place if the backer board doesn't go to the floor? Planning to do my diy shower pan this week
Yes I was arguing this with my contractors. I just assumed you would need to slope it first then add a liner.
@@dunklechuck1188pre slope is necessary. It is the most important step smh
I have to ask...are you a pre sloper...or non pre sloper? 😂
Are you sticking the tile right to the bed or are you using a thinset?
Is that "deck mud" ? What brand do you use?
Spec Mix, theres also a black and white bag that says SIENA Deck Mud, we use both at our job sites for shower pans.
@@shadowspire thx
why not put the level directly on the mortar? 2x4 must be pretty straight.
I see some tile guys are insistent about not to burry the wall cement board into the pan the way you do. So I am really confused about the right way to do it. Can you give me your opinion as to why you do it this way? thanks
Yes, you can burry the board only if it's a 100% waterproof backer board like the Go board we are using. If you burry concrete board, yes the water will wick up, so never burry concrete board.
Great that does clear up the confusion on this issue. Also if you don't mind how much should you pay a installer for mud shower pan only? Just a range and I am on the east coast. thanks so much!
Ken J everyone has different prices. Who are you to put a price on someones hard work? Quality isn’t cheap and cheap isn’t quality. Lest don’t forget all depends on the time it takes since every job is almost always different.
@@kenj1862 the going price on the east coast is 2500 .00 to install a dry pack mortar pan, of course that includes installing the pvc rubber liner too
You do not do a pre-slope first and install waterproof membrane ????
What if the tile is thicker and you have to spin that square drain. Ur gonna mess it up:(
Dude ! I have searched and searched for a video on how to do exactly that ..( complaint alert!!) .. ok so I find a video it says how to make a custom shower pan , FYI I have done this more then a few times but not in a couple years so I wanted to see if there is any new tricks or products on how to do it out there before I do this , the old simple way is always the best , anyway , SO ,, I click on about 15 videos and I kid you not for the first 15 minutes of every vid it is the you tuber talking shit on how he saw this once or I knew ppl who did it this way and then they broke off into this drama .. so by the time they try to explain how to do it I’m like 10 minutes into the video ,, get to the point I yell at the iPad , ( iPad rolls it’s eyes ) so I guess where I was going is your straight to the point and u show the steps in the perfect amount of time it should take u to understand how to do it and then your out . I solute u sir
I'm happy my video helped you sir!
Landberg Tile TV have you ever heard of putting the sand topping in dry then spraying it ? I heard someone say they do it and it works
Sorry BUT your wall should Never Ever touch floor...35 years a pro..
Goboard is 100% waterproof, so yes it can touch the dry pack mortar bed. 👍👍
You should never allow your pan to touch the wall board. This will wick moisture and create black mold. In 6 months
This is Go Board 100% waterproof, so yes, you can drop the board all the way down to the pan as it does not wick like hardibacker. You should try out this board sometimes (Lowes) 👊
Can always paint the first foot of wallboard with a waterproofing membrane if you want to be extra cautious
If you plan on Redgarding the whole shower including the pan this won't matter.
Hell yeah I use go board and red guard just to be safe. But I still dont embed my walls in the dry pack. I was taught to floor first and set walls half inch or so above
I bury my wall panels into the pan as part of the sealed system I use: Wedi wall panels, mud pan, Subliner dry over pan and Laticrete bonding flange drain. Hydroban the pan and cub corners with anti-fracture fabric. Works great!
install pan during rough framing before installing cement board. lots of videos on why you shouldn't have your wall board going into the pan.
That board is Goboard 100% waterproof. It does not wick like concrete board.
This comment & reply, is awesome.. explains benefit & now obvious superiority of Goboard (a brand/material I've never heard of) over cement boards. & Explains two different ways to set up the shower pan and is leading me into researching wicking of cement boards! 👍 Thanks guys 🤙
Is he going to take the pea gravel back out????
One of the best methods i have found thank you 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼 thank you 😊
😎👊👍
What to do next after the dry oak mortar work?
Hey I’m new home owner and working on shower pan now , what type of tool he use to tap down on the mortar
Wood float
so close to what I was looking for.. I'm trying to find out what kind of mortar/concrete to buy.
4 to 1 Mud Bed Mix
Did u pre slope under the membrane?? Thx
No .👎🏼..... 😂😂😂🤣when the water goes there he gonna have a stuck water around to the drain... 🤣🤣🤣
Can you use sand topping mix for dry packing?
I just looked it up online and yes, you can use this. You can use Quikrete Floor Mud and Sand Mix for your shower pan. It is great to use Quikrete for your shower pan because it does not sag and has a quick cure time. The only Quikrete sand mix that you cannot use for a shower pan is Quikrete Deck Mud.
Shouldn't drop that wall board below dry pack floor. That's a no no.
First thing I said to myself
Dry pack? LOL
This is wrong in Florida & wtfrick am I looking at?
It's too much work & the shower is being built up unnecessarily high
Ya did a great job though
thanks for the video. I have a question. We have done the pitch 1/4 inch per foot on the mortar which under the liner, do we have to do pitch again on the bed which above the liner?
That’s way harder than the way I do it. I just drop it in flop it. Dump it and clump it. Then move the F on
you need to stop burying your cement board into your pan...big future issues for that client.
This is 100% waterproof Goboard. Not cement board
I thought you were supposed to leave at least 1/4" gap between the backerboard and dry pack? Novice here. Help appreciated.
My friend sorry to critique what’s the first thing you’ve done wrong is put the Wallboard inside your mortar that’s a no-no
Awesome. Thanks.
Better to install drain flange when you set your pan, and set the drain cover after waterproofing to ensure control of the height of tile to drain
Thankx man, the drypack guy i use flopped, so I will do it tomorrow.
Was that liner below the drain? I didn't see anywhere the liner ON TOP of the drain, otherwise why have a liner?
But you skipped the sloping part. Most likly why most people searched this 😂
My contractor messed on the pan bed cuz it’s not very smooth around the drain area..have him smooth it out? What do you suggest?
does it dry solid in this consistency? how long to wait before tiling?
Yes it drys solid and you can tile the next day.
@@antonioestrada5636 cool thanks. its amazing as it looks so loose ad dry and yet it dried solid! excellent.
I have a question…what happened if the mortar cracks? Is that not a good sign?
The only thing missing from this video is what mud you used
Can't remember, everything is now premixed, so lot's of options at local tile shops or home depot
Hey buddy I see on another channel where the guy said never to embed your cement board or duroc in your shower pan, what’s your advice when it comes to that
This is GoBoard 100% waterproof backerboard. You can embed it with no problems.
Chris Campbell .
You can’t embed hardi board or any other fiber cement board because that will wick water . The tcna handbook says u can embed durarock because it is a true cement board, but I still prefer to leave a gap between wallboard and floor tile to help with expansion and contraction
If your cement board is embedded into your mortar bed floor ( inside your pvc membrane ) so that you have one solid monolithic structure you should apply several coats of a roll on water proofing membrane over the walls and mortar floor to create a total one piece water proofing system .
Good video just about how I would do it Drea would float next time make the face look better
What if I mess up on the dry pack? And the end result is some minor bumps here and there?
If done correctly will the mortar bed feel sandy when hardened?
From the picture it looks like the pan liner is cut around the the drain, not under the drain fixture If so why?
My mud bed/wet bed has been laid and set for 2 days. We used a mix of Portland cement and sand. There seems to be some give in one spot when you stand on it (a bubble or air pocket). Is this a problem? Does the whole thing need to come up and be redone?
How long does it take to dry? Do you tile right over it?
I'm asking the same thing did you get your answer?
He said 48 hours in a different comment
I want to do this to a friends shower, but the previous owner did some custom weird shower that drops down 6 inches. Tile was removed and is down to concrete. I want to fill it in and make it level with the rest of the tile floor. I suppose I should fill it in with gravel, then concrete it around the new drain height, then tile over that. Its on the ground floor, all concrete.
Everything you did is correct but your backer board should be about 1 inch above the shower pan mud because it will try to suck up the water from the shower pan. Im not hating just a helpful tip that might help you
Goboard is 100% waterproof backerboard and is okay beneath the drypack mortar bed.
@@LandbergTileTV really never heard of it, where do you get it?
Looks like you put your walls down into the shower pan. Most experts say don't do that. Put the mortar in THEN install the walls to 1 inch above the mortar bed to prevent wicking.
Goboard will not wick, 100% waterproof
Se puede usar .ud para tirar sobre pisos en areas grandes ?
Why do you say height incorrectly???
For the bucket mortar mixer do you recommend using a regular mixer or a drill like the dewalt you’re using?
Both will work for sure 👊 It's a great mixer
We use the cordless drill because we don't want cords! I'm still waiting for the 7 inch full size cordless tile saw with the gravity stand! It's coming soon I hope...
Landberg Tile DIY TV a 10 inch will be better. I like how we are getting a lot of cordless options it makes our job easier.
@@TilerHub I'm thinking something small and light that one person can carry and with a gravity stand. I did a review on the Beast 7 inch and it was a BEAST, but was super light and cut just as good as the Dewalt 10 inch. Having something a little smaller that can rip a 36 inch tile like the beast, but with batteries would be amazing!
Landberg Tile DIY TV yeah definitely, I got the 10 inch and I love it. But I agree something lighter and cordless could change the game. I hope we see it soon.
Perfect job 👌👌... I do it differently just putting the thread 🧵 from the drain to the wall then follow it thanks and keep going
Is this unbounded I didn't see him use thinset
How do you centre the drain? Lol
Why not just use Kerdi/Schluter pan? I'm at that stage.
That is all we use, this video is years old.
Relocating my shower drain right now. Using a Kerdi H drain, is there a minimum height for the mud bed thickness or can I pretty much set the drain almost even with the concrete foundation? It's about 1/2" off the floor right now.
you guys are doing it right and the same way I learnied how to do it in manhattan, but I didn't see how you did the curb and attached everything... how did you attach concrete board over the top and on the sides of the curb with out puncturing the vinyl... how could it stay there securely?.. I am wondering if you have the answer... I know i do, contact me if you are interested
I NAIL / SCREW CEMENT BOARD THRU THE LINER INTO SILL KEEP NAILS AT TOP BOARD = SAY 1 INCH DOWN TILE AND DRY PACK WILL HOLD BOTTOM I USE WATERPROOFING - "RED GUARD" OR THE LIKE . NO ISSUES 25 YRS DOING PANS
What kind of mortar is that?
What’s the next step 😭
?
I'm a journeyman finisher in the union In vegas going for apprentice setter and I give this video a big thumbs up
Thank you very much 👍👍👍
ur drains not centered lol
How many bags of type -s did the job mine is of similar size?
I can't remember, but I think 2.5 bags.
How long to let set and dry?
I didnt see a preslope.
So did you put your backer board behind the mortar??
Yes, you can with 100% waterproof backerboard like this is.
Me la pelas con las 2
Octavio sanchez haha gay
😅🤣😂
What brand of motar
Extremely Insightful for diy
8:26 pm
?
why is the tile close to the drain? what about mortar mix? wouldn't that raise the tile even more?
Why no lathe in the pan with the drypack?
Lath goes under the pre-slope if doing on a sub-floor. Roofing felt, then lath, then preslope, then liner.
What is Dry Pack mortar? Is it regular mortar that I mix with water?
We use spec mix and mix is dry pack, never too wet. Very easy to work with.
That was way more than 1/4" grade.....
It was more than 1/4” per foot on the side of the shower close to the drain but most likely was at 1/4” on the long slope furthest from the drain as he said in the beginning of the video.
Doesnt look like a very smooth surface for a tile install. Do you skim coat on top of it or something? Sorry, just a typical floor installer trying to translate it to showers haha
Yes, it's smoother than you think. You trowel thinset on it and install your pan tile.
@@LandbergTileTV standard double coat thinset? Treat it as an emboss basically?
@@thebucketlist5061 yes, exactly
Why is the cement so dry?
It's called a drypack. It sets up hard
Where do I find that mixing auger?!?!
Go back to my video and in the description below, there is a direct Amazon link you can click on. This auger is amazing!
GAH! How'd I miss that! Thanks!
Marty Lewandowski e
Contractors direct has them also I got mine there but I'm not a fan , I just take my concrete sand and Portland cement 4 to 1 dump it on a tarp flip it back and forth add some water to it mix back and forth to desire consistency and done .
I found with the auger I would get spots that weren't mix properly
What is that blue plastic matt?
That is the pan liner
Do you float walls?