How to install Mud in a shower floor. Mortar bed
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2020
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How to install mud in a shower pan for a tile shower stall. When installing a tile shower, whether it be ceramic, marble travertine or any other tile product, a mud base will be required. Mud also known as deck mud, is a mixture of sand and Portland cement mixed to a ratio that will create a solid foundation for the tile which will be installed on it. The deck mud is mixed with water to a dump consistency which will allow the deck mud to hold its shape when pressed into a ball. The mud must be pitcher towards the drain so that a slope of at least 1|4" per foot is achieved. The ratio of sand and Portland cement is usually 4:1 or 5:1. I usually use Mapei 4to1 but "Quikrete" sand topping mix, which as far as I know, has a ratio which is a little richer than needed, can be cut by adding some sand to make it more suitable for a shower pan. The method I employ to install my mud shower pan, is to create a level and flat perimeter around the base of the shower walls which is at the correct height in relation to the drain, and then fill the middle part of the shower pan screeding down to the drain with the proper pitch. The mud is shaped with a wooden trowel, steel trowel, level and other pieces of straight wood lengths cut to the required lengths. In this video I demonstrate the technique I use to install a shower mud pan base. There are other methods that can be used, but this is the way I have installed hundreds of shower bases.
All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link. #tile #transformthetrade #howtotile #installingtile #howtoinstalltile #laticrete #mapei #Schlutersystems #diy #construction #ardex
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I love doing deck mud it's the only old school skill left in the modern tile business
There are also a lot of installers out there that can't use a pair of nippers. Modern tolls are great, they make life easier, however the basics still should be known and used.
@@SalDiBlasi Thats very true .We are losing our basic hand skills .The Germans teach the basics first before you can even touch a power tool
You’re the man Sal. Great video.
Thank you kindly
The art of tile repair that I deserve to copy, thank you
😊👍
Your an artist. Truly. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
Well done Sal!
Thanks Donny
Awesome, knowledgeable Information. Thanks Sal!
Thanks for watching my video.
Thanks, Sal! I’m almost at a high enough confidence level to dive in now. 😂👍🏼
Excellent!
Holly crap dude this is great explanation thank you!
I am in the process of completely building my basement from pretty much a dirt floor. We are installing a bathroom, laundry room, workshop and a bar. I plumbed all new drains and a sewage extractor. Just poured the cement floor last weekend. We are very close to building the shower and I have been watching your videos for years preparing for this next step. I am an automotive technician by trade, I have never done any of this before. I just wanted to thank you for the time and effort you’ve put into your videos. Sharing your many years of experience for anyone to see is very generous of you. It’s obvious you are passionate about what you do. When my bathroom is all done, I will have to make a point to make a video and send to you. Thanks again, Sal.
Great I look forward to it.👍
You are the rock n’ roll in tile.
👍😊
Very nice, super smooth finish.
Thank you!
This is a great video how to do the shower pan the right way, thank you so much SAL #1 fan here 🙂. ( this is exactly what I was looking for not fancy stuff here in my small town).
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for another great video...and for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience!. 2 hours for you...probably 6 or 7 for me. Ha! But I plan to tile several areas of a house I’m building (pretty much by myself) and I’m confident in your experience and instruction! Thanks for posting!
Thanks 👍
Great work.. Much appreciated.
My pleasure
You ROCK Sal!!!
😊👍
I do have one question. I am using 4-1 mud bed mix. How long does it have to cure before I can install tile on it?
I've only been tiling for a few years, and the general contractor I work for has always supplied us with Schluter foam pans (at least since I've worked with them). I really like the advantage of not having to level out the floor prior to making a mortar bed. This is the first time I've seen the process of making a mortar bed, and this is truly a satisfying process to watch. Thank you Sal so much for sharing this! You are truly a craftsman and a professional! 💪🏼🤙🏼
Thanks for watching my video.
Beautiful work brother, Tommorrow framing in shower wall for a friend.
Have fun!
outstanding!!!
Sorry Sal I get so into the video I forget to hit the like button. I'm on it now .Good vid
👍👍👍👍👍
Just landed a job gotta do 3 of these will be watching this as I do them lol
😊👍
Good work
Thanks
Thank you very much for your video
You are welcome
My subfloor in the shower is aluminum clad, to locate the radiant floor tubing (Warmboard product). Can I just lay down the wire lath and put the mud in direct contact with the aluminum, or do I need some other material in between?? Thanks for advice.
Hi Sal,
Always referance your vids for proper guidance. When using Drywall and Kerdi on the shower walls, should I do the Kerdi on walls first before mud pan? Thanks
follow up question: i am using the plastic sheet for water proofing. Does the mud mix go on top of the plastic water proof system, or the plastic sheet first and then the mud mix on top?
Sal, why do you say to use thinset to bond mortar to a slab but use bond breaker on plywood? Why not a bond breaker on a slab where any crack will easily telegraph to the tile?
Good morning Sal!
I just have a question about something you mentioned in the video. If you were to do this over a cement slab floor as you mentioned in the video, you mentioned putting down a layer of thinset. What is the reason for that? Also do you have a video of doing that, so I can see this proper steps involved? I'm planning to do that and I want to do it correctly. Thank you!
..... nevermind, I found your videos that explain it. Thanks for all your tips!
Great, I knew I would get that question, link is in the cards and the end screen.
Hello Sal re tilling two shoer beds. They had already the drain and the concrete floor underneath the original tiles. Do i Need to mud mix for the shower floor on top of the cement which was originally there already? Thank you!
I'm guessing that if you choose to have an offset drain the process would be different? Or maybe offset drains aren't a good idea at all?
Sal, I absolutletly Love your Skill, Work Ethic and Awesome videos.
Just troubled by water proofing the shower base mentioned in a comment down below.
I know its necessary with the schluter drain assembly.
I Red Gaurd or Kerdi my walls and ceilings but full stop when it comes to the Base.
Ive repaired countless un-sloped shower pans filled with water. due to water penetration through the tile then deck mud.
Waterproofing membranes are relatively new and my concern is that the membrane will be trapping water in the thin set and will break down over time and cause tiles to be dislodged.
The drain edge sits above the floor tile, potentially trapping water between the rim of the drain cover & water proof membrane.
Your Thoughts?
I understand you concern, and there is a certain scenario where what you say happens to a degree, but is not a case where there is failure of the waterproofing system, but discoloration of the tile. I don't want to get into a long discussion about that, but there is a method to deal with it. That being said, a sealed system which uses a bonding flange is far superior to a "Water in, Water out" system that employs a vinyl liner and a two stage drain. In the older system, the mud of the shower floor will always remain saturated, just as a function of how the system works. In a sealed system where the waterproofing is directly under the tile, the whole thing can dry out between uses. I haven't actually installed a vinyl liner for a number of years, I feel it is time for that system to be retired.
Hi Sal! Was this step done after the pre-slope? I thought from prior videos I’ve seen you use the mesh wire as a base for the pre-slope. Just curious! Thanks for all the great content!
Preslope is only used with a vinyl pan liner, this is a sealed system so the water proofing will be on top of the mud not under neath
hi. what slop will be if the drain not in the center of shower. one side is 1 feet and the far way is 3 feet. so is the slop make it according to 3 feet ( high 3/4 from drain) for far way and 1/4 high from the drain for the near side. or we make it all sides 3/4 higher from drain ?
Great information. Thank you. Once the mud dries and pulls back from the pan or liner or whatever, should that gap be caulked?
Deck mud doesn't shrink.
very nice
Thanks
quikrete says to start tiling within 16 hours or wait 28 days. Does that mean I should install my sheet membrane within 16 hours?
Out of curiosity, how come you went with schluter for everything, besides the base?
Sal, great video. Helps so much.
Just one question, what do you do if the drain is not relatively center. Far wall is 5' away (1 1/4" slope) the near wall is only 15" (1/4" - 1/2" slope).
Slope is more important than ever, but you will get a much steeper slope on the short side. So you can either live with that, if you want a level perimeter, or slope the entire floor from the far side to reduce the pitch on the near side. There will be a compromise one way or the other.
@@SalDiBlasi Sal, I appreciate very much your reply. Thank you again for your help.
I can only imagine it took many installs before you could routinely work within that tight of a space without inadvertently crushing part of the perimeter with a boot.
It can Happen, but i easy enough to fix.
Hi Sal. Very nice. Do you mix the mud in batches? If the mud gets too dry on you can you add more water as you work? Do you have a link on mixing mud? Thx
If you use a tub, usually 2 bags at a time, if you use an auger one bag at a time. The typical shower floor will require between 3 and 5 bags.
Hi Sal. What do you think about stepping, walking and compressing the mud with your feet? I had to do some floor leveling with Mapei Topcem cement and in order to do it properly I tested it few times before. The best results that I had (in terms how hard the mud was when drys out) was when I was compacting it with my body weight. Is it something wrong with this? Could the mud be too much compressed? Thanks
See that's the thing about deck mud, it is not concrete and not meant to be either. especially in a shower situation where you want the mud tp be porous if you use a two stage drain and the water filters down through the mud and out the weep holes. For a non wet area, compacting like that will not hurt, but it is also not needed.
Can Schluter Ditra be used as a deck mud substrate instead of tar paper and lath?
I'm planning on using Ditra for the bathroom floor but since the shower is not very large why not continue the Ditra into the shower area and put the Shluter curb and deck mud ontop?? Nice continuous waterproof membrane on the whole bathroom floor!
Some people will do that, but you will not find it in the TCNA Handbook. The mud also needs to be waterproofed and tied into the bonding flange to make it waterproof.
how wide is the perimeter line you starting of with ?
Hi Sal. To get correct pitch measurement, how is proper way to read that with the level? I noticed you don't get measuring tape out to check pitch measurement? Any tips for pitch measurement would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
You known the height of your drain, set the perimeter height so that it is 1/4" per foot higher at the furthest point from the drain.
I absolutely love the videos. Your first explanation, was perfect. But when you kept trying to explain the same thing over. It seem to complicate it a bit.
about the 3 feet for longes corner from the drain should be 3/4. what about the nearest corner? is that should be 3/4 or have to 1/4 if its 1 feet. or make the slop 3/4 from all sides what ever the drain closer to the wall. just we measure the far corner? and do the slop
Hey, great video as usual.
Will u be waterproofing the floor before installing tile?
Yes, absolutely
@@SalDiBlasi which waterproofing product? Kerdi?
How thick should my final mud bed be?
what is your recommend for putting Mapei's 4-1 over hot mop shower pans? Do you use a thin set for bonding, the mesh or can you do neither and just leave floating. I was thinking use the thin set for bonding?
Hot Mop is strictly a CA thing, The mud pan is supposed to be unbonded, so don't try to adhere it.. You also will not need the wire mesh in that layer of mud.
Sal, what mud should I use? I just did a preslope with Sakrete Sand Mix, but it seemed like it had little pieces of gravel in it, which I didn't think was right. I want to make sure I use something like you had there for bed on top of my liner
www.mapei.com/us/en-us/products-and-solutions/products/detail/4-to-1
@@SalDiBlasi thank you!
Love your videos has really helped me improve in my job
Glad to hear it!
Thanks Sal always a great learning experience with your videos. Quick question: what would you recommend as the minimum thickness at the drain bond?
I try to get at least 1 and 1/4"
Good question, the Schluter drains come with a foam spacer for the correct thickness of the mud which is about 3/4",that would be the minimum.Doesnt hurt to go thicker, I aim for 3/4"-1"..Remeber the thicker at the drain the higher the perimeter will be and the smaller of a cut at the inside of the curb.
Making your screed guides to wide can cause flat spots especially when installing mosaics.
So you can use a 3 piece drain with this method without a liner? As long as it's waterproofed on top?
no
Sal why don't you use a schluter pan?
Alunimum alumumum A L U M I N U M lol I love you sal
😊👍
When should you use a mud pan versus a product like a Schluter pre-sloped floor? Is it simply a $$ decision?
I think I will do a video about that.
I have a step down shower with a concrete base. It was recently tiled incorrectly so I demoed completely down to the studs. My question is about the floor. It was not sloped properly nor waterproofed. What should I do first slope or waterproof then slope?
First you need to decide on a system, then you will be able to figure out how to proceed.
Gracias senor
👍
Sal I asked last week why you don’t use the Kerdi pre sloped mud. Any reason? Or do you just like to do it this way.
I have answered that question a million times, might be time to make a video about it.
Sal DiBlasi thanks for the reply. I have watched many of your videos but never caught that statement I guess.
How much do u charge to deck mud a pan?
Can someone tell me why you use thin set before you build a pan on top of concrete? I’ve built 2 showers already and I didn’t use thin set when I made the shower pans. Hopefully I didn’t shoot myself in the foot but both showers are leak free and saved myself thousands of dollars. In addition, it’s so nice having bomb a** custom showers
Over concrete you should do a bonded mud pan, over plywood a floating mud pan. Don't worry you will probably never have a problem.
Would you have any recommendation for a good tile conductor in central new jersey area?
Call Donnie www.youtube.com/@Dtileandremodeling
What kind of drain is that?
Hi Sal you will add water at the end right?
No. it is deck mud, it is supposed to be only damp.
How do you determine the exact thickness of the mud below the drain?
I usually set it at about 1 and 1/4 inches.
Hello. You will use liner in the top?
This is a bonded system ruclips.net/video/Z2p5ZBJHp0k/видео.html
Do you have a video showing how to dry pack a pie shape base ?
Sam process different shape.
@@SalDiBlasi so do you go inside corners to outside corners of drain , so to create a kind of vally
How much time do you have to work with the mud before it dries too much?
Plenty of time.
@@SalDiBlasi, but for a first time DIY'er with a 4'x7' shower, realistically how much time do I have to get it done before it sets up too much?
Mix one bag at a time so you don't have to rush.
What exactly type of mortar bed mix you use ?
Mapei 4to1 or Laticrete 209
What is this stuff you use? It’s so dry?
Deck mud
@@SalDiBlasi thank you!
Great craftsmanship, but that is a lot of time consuming work. Why not just use a Schluter premodern angled shower pan to go with the Kerri board walls? I’m a DIYer and to get this right it would take me about 3 days.
Usually the drain is not positioned exactly in the middle and the dimensions of the shower will usually not be the same as the tray, some cutting and fitting will be required. So in most cases I can do the mud, faster, and cheaper than installing a foam tray. A mad job like this is max 2hr to install. Don't get me wrong, foam trays are great when you have an exact fit.
My name is mud!
😊👍
Great video Sal ...would have been better without all the conversations and loud talking in the background...very distracting
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.😜
Sal DiBlasi LOL! You Rock Sal! ☆☆☆☆☆
I like all Sal's talking/explaining. Thx you Sal, you’re the BEST!
Soooo
After that is RedGuard ?
Right