I know it's popular to say that metal was dead in the 90s, but I have such fond memories of metal in the 90s. Looking back now, I think it was one of the most exciting times in heavy music. The 80s were pretty much meat and potatoes metal, but the 90s opened heavy music up to a lot of experimentation, new genres, and just a lot of fresh new sounds. I still listen to every single band I got into in the 90s eg. White Zombie, Biohazard, Fear Factory, Cathedral, Entombed, Rollins Band, Danzig, Pro-pain, Machinehead, Sick of it All, etc. such a great decade. I never knew what to consider Rollins Band...so I just called it heavy jazz. lol. maybe post punk, but I have no idea what post punk is.
Necrotic Nick- For certain kinds of metal it might have been dead but overall I just think metal mutated or did some cross pollinating or something because heavy music was still out there it just got rebranded I guess. The 90's were definitely more experimental for sure and honestly I return to that era often just because that's where my fandom of heavy music in general was really anchored. Rollins Band was one that I considered as well so maybe they'll pop up on the next one.
Necrotic Nick- I love both of them but I still need to get the pre-Badmotorfinger albums from Soundgarden. Even that one has some big metal riffs on it though.
In my opinion AIC and Soundgarden was true grunge. Grunge to me is the heavy drop tuned sludgy riffs inspired by Sabbath. Nirvana was punk, and Pearl Jam is alt-rock(Ten was the only true grunge album)
@@thrallsofmetal my old singer was the the biggest Soundgarden fan ever. Long b4 badmotorfinger came out. The 1st EP is I believe called "Screaming for life" or "Fopp" can't remember offhand but either way there's a tune on one of those I think "Screaming" called "Nothing to say" we used to do and it's more metal than metal I guess lol. Cornell just kills it. Def worth checking out.
Necrotic Nick- It's wild how fluid their sound can be. More snarling and metallic one sec and then the next very melodic and almost new wave-ish. They've been a favorite of mine for years.
It’s Gonna Be a Long Night is pretty much a lost Motörhead song, the band itself is kinda like Faith No More where the styles really jump from track to track
I started consciously listening to music and buying records when I was 13 in 1985. I got hooked on classic metal like DIO, JUDAS PRIEST and IRON MAIDEN. But a school colleague also introduced me to a completely different style of music. On the one hand it was harder electro music like FRONT 242, SKINNY PUPPY, KMFDM and the early MINISTRY and on the other hand 80s post punk and gothic rock like SISTERS OF MERCY, JOY DIVISION and FIELDS OF NEPHILIM. So I had a relatively broad musical background and had no problems with all the alternative metal and rock bands of the 90s. These bands often had heavy metal influences but also influences from alternative bands. And I found that exciting. That's why, unlike many traditional heavy metal fans, I say the 90s were great. Even today I still listen to rocking music from a variety of genres and it's fun. Because there are only two types of music, good and bad, great video 👍
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I started buying my own music around that age as well though it was in the 90's so there was a good blend of the more alternative stuff as well as metal for me to feast on. I often looked for those bands that sorta blurred the lines though and I also got into industrial big time with Front Line Assembly, NIN and Die Krupps in particular. I didn't discover goth rock until much later ultimately with my hunt for heavy music I ended up going down a ton of different avenues and it's been a lot of fun so far. I'm eventually going to do another one of these since there's a ton of bands I didn't touch on yet.
Heavy but not metal: The Birthday Party, Swans, Head of David, Jesus Lizard, Big Black, Shellac, Lightning Bolt, Virus (the Norwegian Carheart one)... Then there's Scott Walker's Tilt, The Drift & Bish Bosh - heavy in their own disturbing way. The Drift is particularly harrowing. Meat punching & foul-mouthed Donald Duck included. RIP Geordie. There's no Killing Joke without him.
Necrotic Nick- Man, there's a lot here I'm not familiar with. I know Head of David, Shellac and The Jesus Lizard but I've honestly not dove much into Swans or the others. I definitely plan on jamming some Swans just because I feel like that one is long overdue.
I turned 18 in 91 and a lot of this music I still go back to. Melvins, FNM, Primus, AIC, Pixies etc. It was one of the great eras of music with a lot of experimentation and open minded exploration and blending of different styles. Still loved metal too and was really into Voivod and other sort of quirky stuff. Lived in the SF area at the time and got to see a lot of shows. Many awesome small club Melvins shows. You had people moshing at every Primus show. Awesome times.
This is the conversation (which usually turns into argument) that I seem to have most often with other like minded music fans. Glad to see someone address this. Great job.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, this is one I've been toying with for awhile since the term "metal" or even "heavy" can be so broad. I wanted to get some discussions going since this is often debated and I'm definitely going to do some follow ups for sure.
@@thrallsofmetalFor me I just call it all alt-metal I would call 90% of the bands you name are metal I think the question really is why is metal so rigid and why can't we have experimentation whilst still being metal Good video u got ur self a new sub
Great topic, Nick! Don’t know if you will mention these guys, but there are the Albini bands - I’d say not metal, but definitely heavy and a lot of metallic elements. Talking about Big Black , Rapeman, Shellac. Rage Against the Machine of course. Smashing Pumpkins first album has some metallic moments. What about Acid Bath? Are they metal? Most might say “yes” but songs like Scream of the Butterfly, When the Kite String Pops are not really metal. And then, Nirvana’s Bleach is pretty metallic. Edit: forgot about the Jesus Lizard!
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I don't own a lot of Steve's bands sadly but those are ones I've been meaning to dive into. I already have a pretty big list (that seems to keep growing) and you've brought up quite a few that I definitely plan on going over. This topic has definitely given me a ton of avenues to go down here.
Fudge Tunnel was one of my favorite heavy bands back in the 90's. Not metal, but as close to it as I came back then when I was mostly just into punk. When I heard Helmet the first time, I kind of wrote them off as a pop rip off version of FT. Don't hate me, I was a snooty music kid back then. They only made 3 albums :(Hate Songs in E Minor, Creep Diets, and The Complicated Futility of Ignorance), but I love them to this day.
Necrotic Nick- Fudge Tunnel is an interesting one. They're still in the Archives but they're an odd fit since their sound is really a blend of different stuff. I have all of their stuff so there's a good chance I might bring them up in the future when I come back to this one.
Guess having that trad and heavy, discussion could open up some floodgates or other avenues. To what could be described as “metal.” I’ve been guilty of calling things I see that others struggle to at times when it comes to the genre as well as others.
Necrotic Nick- Actually, I've had this one done for close to a month honestly. I was just looking for a good time to drop it. I figured this would open up a lot of fun discussion in the comments and so far it has. It's all subjective which is what makes it fun.
I was just thinking about this topic. I saw Mr Bungle supported by the Melvins a few days ago. It was interesting to see how much metal was part of the Bungle set. There were covers, both full and partial, of metal bands like Slayer. In fact, the encore song was cover of Sepultura's Territory. But there was also everything else, which defies clear categorisation. But clearly, metal is a cherished influence of Bungle, especially with the current lineup.
Necrotic Nick- It's a fun topic and it really does open up Pandora's Box a bit. I always thought of Bungle as an avant garde band which is still pretty accurate but when they re-recorded their OG demo I was blown away as I didn't know they were a thrash band in the past. Mike likes to get into strange stuff musically but I think his home base is still very much with the metalheads.
Great video! A lot of bands in this category have put out really great stuff. I've been getting into a lot of the bands you mentioned in this video recently. I think the post-hardcore bands NoMeansNo and The Jesus Lizard can also fit into this category, since they have a lot of heavy moments that border on metal imo. Also, glad you mentioned Today is the Day, they're super underrated. Same with Quicksand.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Agreed. I like music that blurs the boundaries in metal. It can be even more intriguing when you can't just label something easily. I'm not familiar with NoMeansNo but I definitely know The Jesus Lizard which was one I considered for this one. I still think Today is the Day is a more metal project than most of these honestly and it was just awesome to get a chance to talk about Quicksand at length on here. I've been a huge fan of them for years.
@@thrallsofmetalYeah, I agree. NoMeansNo are awesome, they were around for decades but never really got as much notoriety as a lot of other post-hardcore acts, but the people that do know them acclaim them pretty highly. I think they were pretty ahead of their time. If you'd want to check them out I would first recommend basically any album from 1986's "Sex Mad" to 1993's "Why Do They Call Me Mr. Happy?", which is what I believe to be their prime period. My starting point to them was 1989's "Wrong" album, which many of their fans consider their magnum opus. They definitely fit mainly into the post-hardcore/art punk territory but I think they border on metal because they sounded a lot heavier and more abrasive than many of their contemporaries (some people consider them "prog punk"). They also have a lot of parts of their songs that personally remind me a bit like Primus or Faith No More. The "Why Do They Call Me..." album in particular I think has some pretty metal sounding riffs at some places. That album even has a song that samples "We Care a Lot" by FNM and the song itself sounds a lot like the late-80s era of that band.
Bands I love im a big Melvins, Faith No More, Helmet ,Killing Joke ,Deftones,and AIC 's fan. You named a couple bands ill definitely check out Hum and Today Is The Day. I would say all those bands could fall into different genres of metal . I'm a metal head that's into extreme bands like Bolt Thrower and Godflesh but also appreciate all types of heavy & extreme music.
Necrotic Nick- There's definitely an argument to be made for any of these bands being metal honestly. Metal itself is such a broad genre of music anyway but some of these definitely do blur the lines quite a bit.
Hum is one of my favorites bands extremely underrated and infuilental ive been listening to them since electra 2000 and helmet as well strap it on is extremely raw and dark (hum is deftones biggest influence)
Its a great list. Because all the bands listed aren't metal, yet most metal heads love these bands! Myself included! There has to be some crazy science behind this! Great channel, subbed!
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I definitely recommend Hum's last album "Inlet" in particular. I totally forgot about Handsome honestly but Fudge Tunnel might make an appearance when I do another one of these.
Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. These bands definitely surpass the generic rubbish that, strangely, seems to be liked by so many people nowadays. There's no accounting for taste, apparently!
Really enjoyed this, Nick! Kept me occupied on my train ride home from seeing the opening night of the Obsessed tour! Was awesome to see Quicksand get mention. Great band.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I really enjoyed doing this one and it's been awesome to see some great discussions being brought up in the comments. I still have yet to see The Obsessed live. I hope you had a blast at the show, man!
@@thrallsofmetal thanks dude! They were awesome. Def see if you can! I haven’t seen Wino live since the 90s when I saw spirit caravan. Dude hasn’t missed a step!
So glad you mentioned today is the day. Wearing a Pain is a Warning Hoodie while watching. titd is my all time favorite band with Faith No More being no 2. Great vid all metal heads should listen to anything on amphetamine reptile and every band in this video
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I've been a big fan of Today is the Day for years. They're uniquely heavy and in away possibly more visceral than a lot of metal bands that people flat out consider metal. Faith No More is one of my all time favorite bands and honestly Mike Patton might be my favorite vocalist ever.
Great video Nick it's very important to know all these groups each of them had a place in the heritage of metal, and you didn't name them but there were maybe the Swans too right ? keep it up, it’s great !
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! This was a lot of fun to do honestly and I've been holding on to this video for awhile. Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with Swans so I didn't include them. I definitely want to give them a more thorough listen before bringing them up in one of these because I see they're getting a lot of love in the comments.
Love the idea for this video, I hope you do more! I've heard of most of these bands but completely forgot about them like Hum who are from my home state.. Took me down a wild rabbit hole! Faith No More is arguably my favorite band ever along with Alice in Chains! When you go back and look at how many hits AiC and FNM had, it's historic, does that even happen anymore these days? Was lucky enough to see them both live in their primes, FNM was the craziest night of my entire life, seeing them with a girl who I met online, we tripped in acid and I never saw her since but I'm sure she remembers our exploits! Saw AiC with my best friend, will never forget that rainy night, getting a ride from my uncle and getting picked up by my mom at the Aragon Ballroom because we were too young to drive... After the show, the band was shooting Ketchup & Mustard from the window onto the fans leaving, hilarious, I can go on and on.. Please make more of these!✌️
really looking forward to hear your opinion about deftones. i heard you guys touch on them a little in the past. zoomers really ruined their image but i think they’re really neat, they got some heavy songs for sure 🤘
Necrotic Nick- I'm a long time Deftones fan and I've always thought it was interesting how they were debated in terms of whether or not they're a metal band. There's definitely arguments to be made for sure.
Glad to see Hum get some love, been a fan since i was a teen actually. I think Inlet came out in 2022 cuz it was nearly 20 years after downward is heavenward
Alice In Chains are totally a metal band… No grunge or alternative band could’ve gone on the Clash Of The Titans tour and have had Tom Araya do a cameo on their album! I can’t picture Eddie Vedder playing in front of a Slayer crowd and surviving! 🤘🏼
The breakdowns can be pretty heavy for Hardcore Sick of it all for example have elements of punk and early Agnostic front think more so into the 90s NYHC kinda got more metal infused where there mid early 80s stuff have some strong Hardcore punk elements too it
Necrotic Nick- Hardcore and metal do flirt with each other but generally when they meet it's in crossover or metalcore/ metallic hardcore. I still think straight up hardcore is its own thing.
Also, A lot of these bands I first heard because of Beavis and Butthead. Melvins, Hum, Quicksand, Helmet, Primus, Faith No More. And I think Alice in Chains was seen as a grunge band where I lived BUT metal fans tended to like them more. Where as Punk and Indie kids tended to like Nirvana more.
Necrotic Nick- It's kinda strange but in retrospect that show introduced me to a ton of killer stuff that MTV had pretty much taken out of their regular rotations at the time. Yeah, I had AIC in the grunge category for years but honestly I can totally see why people call them more of a metal band now. They definitely had more of a metal sound in comparison to a lot of the grunge bands.
Great list. Liked this video. Killing Joke was very post punk in the start that got darker, heavier inc industrial, riff heavy feel.. Helmet, I always saw them as a pure noise/noise rock band from New York that evolved to a lot more groove, polished oriented albums and melodic parts.. Quicksand definitely more of a hardcore/post hardcore band that again evolved to more alternative rock type of stuff. I'm afraid haven't listened to HUM. The name rings a bell far away. Will defo check! Deftones: originally a hardcore band/crossover band influenced by Bad Brains, 7 Seconds, The Smiths...they got darker, heavier throughout their catalogue..easily to call them alternative metal oh yeah.. Faith No More is the quintessential crossover band blending so many styles, it's incredible.. The Melvins, masters of heavy sludgy, stoner, desert, doomy rock with the odd metal and full experimental, noise rock influence.. Alice in chains defo a metal oriented heavy rock band influenced by 80's metal and classic rock but very moody and dark yet always melodic.. they never really go abrasive or obscure. It always stays tuneful and polished. Incredible band! Huge loss for them losing Staley but Duvall does a fantastic job and they remain successful. If only Soundgarden could pull it like this cuz their music too good, so memorable.. I'm sure they could have been a successor to Cornell who was mindblowing.. Primus' very much of an odd ball and absolutely incredible band.. they're definitely influenced by some metal and progrock and they fit in the alternative rock scene and very experimental and weird.. they got that funk metal crossover vibe. Today Is The Day is absolutely phenomenal and one of my all time favourite bands.. very unique delivery and sonic hellish textures..Austin influenced by old school metal, punk and progrock, psych, art rock and psychedelic music. The band definitely rooted in experimental noise rock developing into darker noisier, sludgier metal hardcore with grindcore exploits and these days very eerie psych post metal/rock type of stuff..
Swans were insanely heavy, noisy and confrontational in their early days. They made a lot of metal bands in the 80's sound tame by comparison. Check out Cop or Filth, plus any other albums or video footage from that decade. Cop alone can probably rattle your walls if you play it loud enough.
Necrotic Nick- That's definitely a band I need to dive into more. I've known about them for years but I've never really checked out much by them. I'm probably going to do another one of these at some point so I think this listen is long overdue.
Hum?? Hell yeah! One of my favs! Electro 2000 is good! It's raw, stripped down and punkish. Definitely worth checking out! Fillet Show is long out of print and not on streaming services.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, very overlooked band from the mid to late 90's right there. I still need to check out their album before You'd Prefer an Astronaut but I will if I can find them. I'm hoping they do a follow up to Inlet but I believe one of their members recently died so I don't know what the status of the band is right now.
One of the reasons Primus is in my top 5 bands ever, they are really an unique band and even though they are great musicians they don´t take themselves too seriously, not too many bands can say the same.
My favorite heavy non-metal acts that have been instrumental in helping me connect, further connect and even re-connect with various sides of metal in the almost 34 years of my life as a metal fan: Joy Division, Killing Joke, Poison Idea, King Crimson (especially with Bill Bruford), Genesis (Peter Gabriel in the role of Watcher Of The Sky is the original second wave black metal lord IMHO), Jimi Hendrix, Jethro Tull (huge fan), Tori Amos (huge fan), Dead Can Dance, Frank Zappa, dEUS. I could name a few more, but this list should do. Great topic, not I will continue watching! 🔥🎶
Necrotic Nick- Same here, man. While I'd say at least as far as bands it was more along the lines of Helmet, Quicksand and Deftones that I gravitated to initially Killing Joke was a huge eye opener for me in terms of a band that had a unique take on heavier music. There's a lot of more classic acts like some of the ones you've mentioned here that are also on the cusp so I'm definitely going to do some follow ups to this one.
@@thrallsofmetal I tried to keep it short, so didn't touch upon AIC, Bad Brains, Throbbing Gristle, etc. Looking forward to your next episode on the topic, and please bring in Mr. Shred Lord and Mr. Jamming Jon if this is not asking for too much. I would be interested in hearing their story.
Basically you are describing my favorite 90s bands. Every single band you brought up and went over was 100% amazingly spot on. I’ll just focus on HUM here, I’m a gigantic HUM nerd! HUM is actually a local band where I grew up here in Central Illinois. I would say they were my first truly heavy band. The first time I heard Stars on the radio, I lost my mind. I never heard that wall of sound before, those sludgy bombastic guitars and that fucking chugging riff just slays. The drumming is spectacular and Matt’s drone vocals are perfection. Little Dipper is straight up gaze city and easily my favorite HUM song. The Pod and Stars have very metallic breakdowns. I didn’t have MTV then, no Internet, the radio was it and HUM basically changed everything. Inlet I would describe as Post Stoner-gaze Metal maybe? The Summoning certainly reflects that description. Dude. HUM! Helmet, FNM, Smashing Pumpkins, AIC, Handsome, Quicksand, glassjaw, etc etc
Necrotic Nick- The 90's were a wild time for music. There was a ton of experimentation going on especially in heavier music in general and a lot of these bands had a huge impact on my tastes just as much as all the flat out metal bands I was jamming. Hum is such an awesome band and honestly one of the one's I was the most excited to talk about because of how overlooked they are. Yeah, I remember seeing the Stars video on Beavis & Butthead and when that riff hit them they changed their tune I think represented a lot of fans of heavier music when that moment exploded. Inlet was such an awesome surprise when it dropped and I think "post-stoner-gaze" is honestly pretty accurate. That main riff on Step Into You might be one of the catchiest things they've ever written. Yeah, there's still a lot of other bands I'm planning to bring up so there will be sequels to this one.
Necrotic Nick- I'm still on the fence about that show. I know they're playing in Detroit around that time but I've got a lot of other shows coming up as well.
@@thrallsofmetal I hear you. Cattle Decapitation is playing less than 10 miles from my house this spring. My only reservation there is that my next door neighbor, who also happens to be a metalhead, has a scar on his forehead from when he saw them live. Apparently, a Cattle Decap pit is no joke.
I've always loved the DEFTONES since the release of Around The Fur and seeing the My own summer Video blew me away. So heavy but different and unique all at the same time. Went back and got their first album and was blown away again. Such a heavy awesome! Debut album. Been a huge Deftones fan ever since and own everything by them. And I'm a Metal Head since 1983 since I was 13 years old. Pretty much all genres of Metal I listen to. And some Grunge Rock groups also. AIC and SOUNDGARDEN my absolute favorites. And I do also love FAITH NO MORE such a great unique group and Mike Patton is an incredible! Vocalist. Great idea for a video Nick I enjoyed it my friend. Take care brother🤘🍺
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Around the Fur is what made me a fan. Even though I was already into the nu metal sound at that point their was something different about Deftones. I got Adrenaline not long after and that cemented my fandom right there. I think being a teen in the 90's and the 90's being such an experimental decade in terms of heavy music really made me explore a lot of different avenues in "metal". I really got into thrash and death metal early on but I loved a lot of the heavier grunge bands and stuff like Helmet's Meantime and the mighty Faith No More (Mike is my favorite vocalist of all time). I also got into a lot of industrial music at that point too which further broaden my musical horizons. It's been a fun musical journey so far.
Them Crooked Vultures has the best metal/non-metal album. Also, Badmotorfinger inspired guitar tunings for mutoid man and early mastodon. Kim Thayl (spelling?) was innovative. Listen to rusty cage and then call of the void's riff. Sound familiar?
@@SolarGluhe's a master of using the fuzz pedal for distortion. Lost art since Iommi. Much like Mastodon use to be like. His Guild with his fuzzy pixie dust and he's a tonesmith, much like the guitar players from the bands I mentioned.
Necrotic Nick- I love that album. I was going throw QOTSA on here but I already had a ton of bands on this one. Soundgarden was another one that might make an appearance as well in the future because I'm eventually going to return to this one. Kim did the lead on Had it All I believe on Hushed & Grim.
@@thrallsofmetal I know Zeppelin over the years has been a borderline band as well. They are my favorite band of all time and the band that made me fall in love with music; however, 35 years after hearing them, I still can't determine. This would be a good one for the oldheads 🤣 Rainbow, Deep purple, UFO, Rush, and Yes. There's a show in itself. Love this angle, it helps to get other non metalheads into metal.
My friends and I pretty much lumped all these under the catch all term "Alternative Metal". All brilliant bands btw... Killing Joke did go through different eras, my favorite the classic post punk era.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, the "alt metal" umbrella is a pretty big one but I think there's more to it which was another reason I wanted to do this one. There's a lot of heavy band out there that really had a unique approach to being heavy. Killing Joke is still one of my favorite bands but I started with Pandemonium so I tend to lean more toward the heavier stuff. Night Time might be my favorite though.
A great band for this is the Japanese band boris(named after the melvins song). Their roots are in drone doom but they have a lot of experimental albums, even more experimental than the melvins are. For example albums like "new album" and 'attention please" which are like dream popy.
Necrotic Nick- I'm familiar with Boris. That band is just flat out strange and that discography is possibly more all over the place than Melvins. I've heard some of their heavier albums which definitely draw a lot from Melvins but some of their other ones are a bit too odd for me.
Excellent concept for a video. It was something that kind of revealed itself to me almost a decade ago. Until then, I considered my music tastes to lean into the realm of "artier" metel. Then I realized that metal typically (not always) employs a certain level of virtuasity in performance, really right production quality, a certain level of commitment to a visual persona and there's an adherence to a certain level of execution and craft. Almost none of that cleanly applies to the heavy bands I was listening to at that time such as Melvins, Boris, Grief, ISIS, Neurosis, Sunn O))) and that kind of stuff. If anything, those bands are more downstream of the punk scene than the metal scene. It's a pretty forgivable goof in my mind though as going back to at least the thrash movement 40 years ago we saw a lot of overlap and inbreeding between the punk and metal scenes. Lots of punks started listening to some metal and metalheads were giving punk a listen and it makes all the sense in the world that young teenagers who were into those heavy scenes back then would eventually become more agnostic to such genre distinctions as they formed bands. Genres can be a fun way to reference and contextualize music, but it can just as easily get in the way of enjoying and even understanding meaningful art. If you dig the music, that's all that really matters and genres become trivial.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I've been wanted to do a video like this for awhile just because there's so many bands like this where the lines blur in terms of what they're classified as. My love of metal is pretty broad these days honestly. I go down most avenues of metal and metal adjacent music. I love more artistic bands but I also love flat out primal ones too. Around the same time I was getting into metal I was also becoming a big fan of grunge, punk and hardcore too so I really enjoyed hearing heavy music done differently. The 90's in particular had so many of these bands so it was really cool seeing "metal" being pulled in so many different directions. That era in the 90's when I was a teen was definitely where I fell in love with music.
This was great! I love Killing Joke-impossible to categorize-but so heavy! Today is the Day I would say 80% metal! LOL I would add Swans too. So many great records. “The Seer” is probably the heaviest of the more recent records.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, I knew when I was getting this ready that Killing Joke was the perfect band to start with. They've confounded people for years as to what they are. Today is the Day is probably the most metal band on here but somehow still seems like an outlier for most people. I personally don't get it but whatever. I'm still not very familiar with Swans but I'll probably have to dive into their stuff when I come back around to this subject because I think a part 2 is already in order.
As I thought about it more Swans don’t play riffs, so they may not be metal at all…Very intense heavy music that I still recommend: I look forward to part 2!
I think a lot of the Grunge (I hate that term) bands of the 90's were heavy and metallic enough to be in the Metal realm. Soundgarden(early Soundgarden), AIC, who is one of my favorite bands of the 90's. were heavy enough to be called "metal". QOTSA. Fu Manchu, TAD, Melvins, FNM, Mr Bungle, they were heavier that the so-called hair "metal" bands. The funny thing about these bands are if you call these bands "metal" many slag it off and indignant about being called a "metal " band. And finally... TOOL?? Yes I love Tool And I consider them Metal. 10,000 Days sound is lead heavy and Danny Carrey's drums are so fucking heavy on that album. Gettin carried away. Anyway, Nick, GREAT subject matter. Keep up the great work!
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I kinda feel the same way about grunge. Much like "alt metal" it became a blanket terms for bands whose sound was hard to categorize but there was a ton of that in the 90's. The 90's really started to open the playbook a lot in terms of experimentation in heavy music and I think that's where were get a lot of these bands that tend to be heavy but also outliers in terms of metal. There's definitely going to be a follow up to this one at some point though.
Bruford era King Crimson - Robert Fripp created some seriously heavy riffs - go listen to the song Larks tongues in aspic pt. 2 Mahavishnu orchestra - not heavy in the traditional metal sense but heavy in a really sort of bombastic way - go listen to the song Vital Transformation Gentle Giant - Again not heavy in a metal way but holy shit did Gary Green come up with some brutally heavy blues riffs - listen to Peel the Paint Rush - Go listen to YYZ, enough said
Necrotic Nick- There's definitely some prog rock bands that had some heavier outings for their time that I may get to in the future. Rush was in consideration for this one but I already had a full roster.
Here's a hot take. Reel Big Fish actually comes across as metal eventhough they're Ska. Candy Coated Fury is a brilliant metal/non metal album. Musicianship in that band is top notch.
Necrotic Nick- I think some ska bands have metal riffs every now and then but I don't think they're that close. I used to listen to a ton of Less Than Jake and they loved splicing in metal riffs every now and then and even pop punk bands like Sum 41 flirted with metal so there's definitely some weird ones you wouldn't expect out there.
Necrotic Nick- He did start embracing Motorhead being called a metal band later but I might have been begrudgingly just to get people off his back about it lol.
I got a bit bored of heavy music in my 20's, but I then I found Kvelertak which for me put the 'fun' back in it. high energy and rocking out is more my style now.
I would ask the question when does punk become metal, considering the likes of Disfear or Wolfpack/Wolfbrigade and similar d-beat bands, considering even that members of At the gates, Entombed etc played in them.
Necrotic Nick- I think punk still stays punk but when it crosses over into hardcore and the crustier side of punk like Disfear, Disrupt and all those Discharge & Doom worshiping bands it starts to blur the lines with metal. I do plan covering some of those in the future since the crust/ d-beat directly influenced a lot of metal in general.
One of them is dir en grey, many think they are alternative metal, they have avant-garde, progressive, among others but they do not reach metal itself.
the band The Scratch is great for this discussion they aren't metal but they have a song called Blaggard that is their heaviest kinda has a Godflesh vibe at least imo. The members actually had metal band together and decided to form The Scratch and bring groove and intensity of metal to their music. Their drummer uses a Cajon and is the main vocalist too
Man, really wish I could've weighed in on this debate, I agree on all of these bands, I have met true metal heads of all types that have dug each of these bands in their own way and have been influenced by them as musicians, solid band picks! Helmet led the post-hardcore scene into the 2000s, Deftones influenced the post 2000s emo vocal scene style, and Melvins kinda spawned the whole NW & NE 'Sludge/stoner' sound out of the 80s, Faith No More really spearheaded that heavy funk sound out of the early 90s along w/ RHCP
Necrotic Nick- It was a fun premiere but there's a ton of interesting comments to scour through on here with a lot of interesting takes. These bands have all influenced my tastes in one form or another and I still come back to them often and interesting to see what all these bands have influenced along the way as you brought up. It's weird thinking that sludge metal itself was influenced by a band that isn't completely metal or that Faith No More fused a more metal sound with a litany of different styles and it worked. This was a lot of fun to do and it's a sure bet I'll be returning to this one again.
Killing Joke 'Pandemonium' & Helmet 'Meantime' to me are two of the absolute best and most important albums of the 90's, regardless of whether they are to be considered 'metal' or not.. 🤗
Necrotic Nick- Same here. I jammed those all the time between blasting death and thrash metal. It's was cool to hear that they were different from the metal bands but I was still getting the same invigorated feeling listening to them. Those two album opened a ton of musical doors for me.
@@thrallsofmetal I like the fact that Jaz Coleman of Killing Joke could make his voice sound equally as demonic as any black or death metal vocalist, you could care to mention, when he wanted to. And Page Hamilton's riffs on the first, say, four Helmet albums equals those of Dimebag Darrell or Tommy Victor in greatness and importance in the 90's musical landscape.
My pick is Seether. They have some songs that can get very aggressive and heavy but I consider their style to be more hard rock than metal. Some of their songs like Pride, Needles and Pig still hit me emotionally just as much as they did 20 years ago. Also to make a long story very short, I had been absent for over a year due to experiencing what I call "metal burnout." Basically, for all of 2020 to the first half of 2022, listening to and collecting metal was pretty much my only hobby and I just hit a wall. In 2023, it was pretty much all video games and I hit a smaller wall there. In short, I'm learning that its not a good idea to put all my interests or hobbies into one basket at a time. I'm trying to spread out my interests between metal, gaming, movies and comics. I'm in a much better place now, haha.
Necrotic Nick- Seether, at least when I was listening to them in their earlier career, always struck me as a halfway point between post-grunge bands like Puddle of Mudd or Candlebox and flat out nu metal. They definitely had their heavy moments that pushed them a bit past the commercial rock stuff out there so it's hard to say. Yeah, hobbies can be a bitch to manage. I slowed down on my movie collecting and just flat out stopped collecting comics just to make room for the music collecting. Since the channel is based around music that was the hobby I stuck with. That and I love collecting music clearly lol.
@@thrallsofmetalIm with you on the movie collecting bit. I looked through my collection the other day and pretty much have all the movies i want to watch more than once. IMO, there's no need for filler that ill never use.
So I'm a metalhead that also loves classic rock as far back as the stones and Beatles. I like a lot of bands that are heavy or dark in a non-metal way like The Doors or Pink Floyd. I've liked a lot of grunge. But tell me Soundgarden isn't at least in part Metal? They have deep, dark, doomy as fuck stuff that sits comfortably alongside sabbath(my fav). Here you already discussed AIC, which is probably my favorite among more recent bands. I more say a like heavy music. Some is metal, some maybe not.
Necrotic Nick- Generally my non-metal listening scratches different itches for the most part but I still tend to gravitate to music with a darker edge. Sometimes it more clearly borders on metal, sometimes it's really far removed from it but sometimes it's really difficult to say what it is. A lot of if is perspective but I definitely want to talk about those bands that have one foot possibly in the metal camp... maybe lol. It's kind of a fun and very wide open discussion for sure.
When I was a whippersnapper in the early 90s, you had to be either a grunge kid or a metal kid. Sure, privately you could like whatever you wanted but publicly, you had to pick a camp. Alice In Chains was the main band that split the difference. You could talk to a kid in a Metallica shirt or a Nirvana shirt and they'd be like "You listen to Alice in Chains? Cool. I guess we can be friends." 😂 And metal or not... Hum is a criminally underrated band.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, when I was younger it seemed that way too. There's was a needless rift between the fanbases but I'll agree that AIC was the band that seemed to bridge the two. They had the dark, heaviness that the metalheads were looking for but the catchy rock hooks the grunge kids wanted. Hell, I've met very few people in my life didn't love AIC honestly. Yeah, Hum was so underrated. Hopefully they follow up Inlet as some point.
I got some submissions for the follow-up: Disturbed Five Finger Death Punch Marilyn Manson Linkin Park (hed)pe Rush (influential for progressive metal) Ghost Queen (another influential rock band) Avenged Sevenfold (definitely were flipping through genres on that dumpster fire that was Life is But a Dream) Foo Fighters Kid Rock (he dabbled in the world of nu metal on his 4th album, Devil Without a Cause, and his song "American Badass" samples "Sad But True" from Metallica and has a thrashy section mid-song) Hardy (been throwing in nu metal elements mixed with country) Two of the bands listed are touring this summer!
@@thrallsofmetal I was talking about FFDP and Marilyn Manson, Nick! And it's Manson's return to the stage for the first time in years after all that bullshit he went through the last few years!
AIC alt metal as it’s between trad metal and alt rock. Deftones alt metal for similar reasons. And FNM. Alt metal is a helpful and encompassing descriptor for sure
Necrotic Nick- I like the term but I think it's very broad and I also feel like any band that's not clearly defined in another subgenre of metal just gets thrown there without a lot of consideration.
Necrotic Nick- That was a big one I deliberately left off simply because I was pretty sure this would end up being a series so Tool will eventually show up because their status still gets debated a lot.
Necrotic Nick- Agreed and same about not seeing them live. I've been a fan since Pandemonium and it broke my heart when Geordie died. That dude was such an innovative guitarist and one of the big reasons I fell in love with the band's sound.
My wife can’t stand metal but digs a ton of Deftones and Faith No More tracks. She’s been to two Deftones shows as well with me! All hail Deftones and my personal alltime fav band…Faith No More 🙌
Necrotic Nick- I know people that are the same way honestly. They really don't like metal but they dig Deftones and stuff like that. They're a pretty solid gateway band to be honest. As for Faith No More, they're still one of my favorite bands to this day and probably got me into so many different styles of music just because of how eclectic they are. Mike Patton is the GOAT in terms of vocalists in my opinion too.
I would say breakcore artists fit here too. Despite being mainly electronic and digital, artists like Aphex Twin, Atari Teenage Riot or Igorrr make heavy music which could be labeled "not-metal". Not sure if Igorrr is classified as a "metal" band, but anyway the sound of breakcore gives me a similiar feel I get from metal.
Necrotic Nick- You could definitely make that argument. I know Dino was on a track on Atari Teenage Riot's "60 Second Wipeout" and there's flat out metal on Igorr's album in particular. I'm probably going to a follow up to this at some point since there's a ton of bands I didn't have time for.
Necrotic Nick- I kinda love it all namely because I got into all at the same time. Hardcore was a big part of my listening as well so there might be some more hardcore leaning bands showing up in future episodes.
These are some of my all time favorite bands…music I’ve been listening to since middle school in the mid 90s…I’d put tool ,neurosis and king gizzard in this conversation as well. Seeing Primus in may can’t wait…they suck !
Necrotic Nick- Same here. Tool is definitely one I'm going to talk about in the future with this series but I'll probably leave Neurosis out as I see them as pretty much the godfathers of post metal. I really need to listen to more King Gizzard but it's hard to even pick a place to start with that band. I hope you have a blast at that Primus show!
I’d say Deftones, AIC and Soundgarden all fit within alt metal. I’d throw FNM into the alt metal category, even though they do hop around between genres. Melvins are a sludge metal band. Would love to see this become a series. Would be interesting to see you tackle this same debate but with classic hard rock bands like UFO, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, etc.
Necrotic Nick- I'd say they could but the thing is with the term "alt metal" any band that's heavy but outside of the traditional subgenre's can kinda fit there. It's kind of a blanket terms for a lot of bands that don't necessary have a similar sound all the time. Melvins are a tough one because while their early stuff laid the groundwork from sludge metal they're sound has gone all over the place. I'm definitely going to do some follow ups to this one since it was a lot of fun doing it and it seems to get some great discussions going. There's a ton of bands I'd like to touch on in the future in this format.
When I really started buying CDs in the 90s I didn't really care for genres. So there was Soundgarden, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Skyclad, Iced Earth, Prodigy, AIC, Helloween, RATM... I didn't care. Today I listen to music from Beach Boys to Bloodbath and from Yes to Enslaved. Would be boring to stick to one genre only. Regarding heavy bands, that are not really Metal, I would add Prodigy. In the 90s they blew away a lot of metal bands live. And Kvelertak just like Solstafir are Metal for me. Same with Alcest, Myrkur or The Ocean for me. Are their last few albums really Metal? Some call them Post Metal or something. But for me, they are on the Metal side.
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, when I was a teen I used to blind buy a ton of stuff just looking for new and interesting music. If the cover, logo or band pic looked like something I'd like I'd snag it. Even when I found myself more drawn to heavier music I would still check out a bunch of stuff that didn't scream metal when I saw it. Dude, I thought about bringing The Prodigy into this one if only for how vicious of an album Fat of the Land is. I love that album. Kvelertak is an interesting one since their sound is all over the place but it feels glued together by metal while I feel like Solstafir gets more accepted as a metal band more often.
@@thrallsofmetal Kvelertak is great. It has that Rock‘n‘Roll vibe mixed in with hints of black metal. I also thought about Smashing Pumpkins. They have some heavy songs like Zero. And the Adore album sounds partially like Goth Metal. It is heavier that e.g. Paradise Lost was at that time. Especially in the 90s a lot of heavy bands made some not very metallic albums. Metallica went Alternative, Amorphis, Sentenced and others went 70s rock. Tiamat and The Gathering made electronic psychedelic albums. And then there are bands like in the Woods or Green Carnation. They have metal guys as band members and all their fans are metal fans, but the music is not really metal. Same with Wardruna.
I Forgot about NIN. Broken hit as hard as any metal at the time. Idk if they're considered metal, but they're a borderline band to me. I love this band.
Necrotic Nick- I'm definitely going to throw in NIN at some point. I didn't want to overload this one with too many huge names so I'd still have some to talk about later.
Necrotic Nick- Swans will definitely be one I cover at some point. I still need to really check out more of their stuff to be honest though. As much as I love Depeche Mode I'd probably leave them off this one.
@@thrallsofmetal Public Castration is one of the heaviest albums ever recorded in any genre imo. If you are not already familiar with it, it will surely convince you
Necrotic Nick- I didn't mention that one since I don't own it. I'm not even sure I've listened to that one but with Melvins discography it's understandable missing entire albums lol. I'll have to go back and check that one out.
Wtf even is Alcest? I love their sophomore album, but it doesn't really sound like metal, let alone black metal/blackgaze. I would moreso consider it shoegaze with the occasional black metal vocals but rarely.
Necrotic Nick- I thought about Converge for this one but for me I'd say they're a metalcore band but one that definitely stands apart from most of the metalcore out there. I might bring them up in the next one. Chelsea Wolfe is definitely an interesting one too. She's really hard to categorize herself. I've never been much of a Alcest fan but I'd still argue they're "blackgaze" which I still think is close enough to black metal in general to be called metal even though there's a lot of black metal fans that hate that subgenre.
The heaviest genre of metal I play on my college radio station is thrash. And that's because it can be very hard to play death metal on the radio. Deicide, and Cannibal Corpse are those examples. And that's because I can't understand what the vocals are saying and plus since it's FM radio, I'm not allowed to have swear words on the air and we all understand why. It's not Sirus XM. If it was, I'd definitely be playing a ton of black and death metal. But since it's not fun editing the lyrics for both of these genres, I don't play them. Although I have played Death every now and then. These guys are so talented. Chuck is the Godfather of Death Metal. I do play a ton of symphonic metal because at least there are no swear words in the songs. Even if there aren't any swear words, I do checkup the lyrics so that I know where I need to edit. I do a good job with editing though. Metal does not get played on mainstream radio as much, which is a reason why college radio exists. Music you don't hear anywhere else. I have said this time and time again that I combine classic rock with alternative, punk and metal music. I've also said that my mom isn't the biggest fan of my metal music I play, but she does love my 60s shows and whenever I play Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, and The Cure. My show has brought an appeal to both the older audience and the younger audience. I may have turned my audience to bands that they never heard of. I enjoy being on college radio. Definitely a fun experience. I do some talking on the show as well, talking about music news, like recent deaths, tours, new song/album releases, and sometimes I talk about the songs/bands and why I decided to play them. I make them very personal. I also check up on sports, local and college events that are going on. I have to keep up with the news too and give them updates about them. Just sucks that I can't play a bunch of the heavier subgenres due to editing bad language. I thought it would be safer by not playing some of these bands, despite I have love for some of these bands.
I consider helmet an alternative metal band but with roots in hardcore tbh. Even John Stanier called their sound a "thinking man's metal band". And the groove has a lot in common with the grunge scene which like AIC and Soundgarden due to being groove. (Post) Hardcore before that wasn't groovy at all, they're ultra different and metallic compared to Fugazi or Drive Like Jehu. The only HC thing are the yells
Necrotic Nick- There's definitely an argument to be made there especially since this band is often sited as one of the big influences to nu metal in particular. I think a lot of grunge pulled from classic rock and kinda put a punkish spin on it especially with the early grunge bands but groove definitely was a big part of it.
@@thrallsofmetal kind of? I mean, I mean bands like AIC, Melvins, Nirvana (Bleached era) and Soundgard had a very dirty sludge/Doom sound. So imo grunge and nü metal weren't genres per say because there was a lot of variety
Hearing about Deftones would be very interesting. I consider them to be a metal band, despite some people not thinking so. It really depends on their point of view. But regardless, an important band and influential. Plus, they are one of the best nu metal bands of all time. Very consistent discography and everyone in the band has a ton of talent. I would also say that Korn are also metal. You either love them or hate them. They are the pioneers of nu metal and have a roller coaster of a career.
Necrotic Nick- Deftones are definitely more on the metal side just because of Steph's riff style. You can tell some of big his influences are metal just by listening to his tone and riff style Whether they're metal or not really doesn't matter though. I love their music overall.
Necrotic Nick- Both of those I considered for this one but I left off just because I already had a ton of bands on the list. There's definitely going to be more of these in the future though.
@@thrallsofmetal honestly, fair. I can't remember the song off hand but there was a straight up old school death metal riff in it that caught me off guard it made me go "WTF THIS IS VOLBEAT?!" lol.
[WARNING: Wall of text] I think this discussion is really going to come down to the definition of metal, and in my experience, that's going to vary from person to person. I have my own definition, but I recognize that plenty of folks would disagree with me (and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong to do so). That being said, I do have some thoughts on this video's topic, but it's going to be based on my definition, which is: metal is based on meticulous, clockwork-like rhythms. I know a lot of folks focus on riffs, but for me, it's the machine-like chugging that is the foundation of metal and its subgenre. Think about the first few seconds of "You've Got Another Thing Comin'" by Judas Priest. Admittedly, this is much more of an academic interpretation that most people, but that's just kinda how I am. Of course, with this interpretation, some bands often associated with metal get left out. I don't consider Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Aerosmith, and AC/DC as metal. They're hard rock. However, I do include a lot of the 80s hair metal bands as metal, as I can hear the chugging foundation in many of their songs. (Though I do exclude Guns 'n' Roses as being not metal. I think of them as an 80s Aerosmith, really.) Of course, when you get into the 90s, things get complicated. I do have my own "alternative metal" group that includes groove, nu, and the 'core genres, as I do recognize their metallic, chug-based sound that happens to be fused with various other non-metal elements to one degree or another. However, I've never really considered grunge or post-grunge to be metal (I know there are a few that do). ANYWAYS, all of this is essentially to set up the argument that, with my definition, I am able to separate the concept of "heavy" from the concept of "metal." Take, for example, a band like DragonForce. Are they metal? Certainly. Are they heavy? Not really. They're high-flying melodic playstyle almost seems to soar and float rather than drag anything down. (Though that is the nature of power metal as a whole.) Then we can flip it around. Are the bands that are heavy, but not necessarily metal? Sure! (I'd consider Tool's latest album Fear Inoculum to be in that category, really.) Now, I admit my system is not perfect. There are plenty of bands that feel like they're on the cusp between rock and metal. (A number of bands seem to sit on the line between post-grunge and alt metal, like Alter Bridge, Starset, and Breaking Benjamin.) I also should admit that I haven't listened to any of the bands Necrotic Nick brought up in this video, but of the few I have heard of, I do get the impression that their metal-ness has been heavily debated. I know Ghost and Sleep Token are newer bands that don't seem to easily fit into a convenient box. It's just a consequence of how much music is out there now, and how folks choose to blend their influences into something new. (I should also point out that a band's "metal-ness" is obviously not a statement of quality for me, just an exercise in academic delineation.) If you made it this far, thanks for reading it all. I do tend to be long-winded, mostly as a consequence of making sure I'm explaining things clearly. Everyone is going to have their own lines (both around and within metal), and that's not necessarily a bad thing. In the end, we're all just passionate about the music we love.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, this subject is wide open in a lot of ways which is why I wanted to do it. It's a good launching point for a lot of discussions that circle around this video and subjectivity is such a huge part of it. Hell, the origin of "metal" is still heavily debated as well. Ultimately it's all up to the listener which makes for a lot of cool discussions.
Alice in chains is Metal. Soundgarden is Metal. It doesn't take a genius to hear it. Grunge is not a true subgenre, and none of the " grunge " bands sound anything alike. The media called any band from Seattle Grunge regardless of what they actually played.. if Sunn O))), Bell Witch, and Nevermore were around during the grunge era.. They too just like AIC would be thrown into grunge category just because they're from Seattle. It's utter nonsense. I'm glad that people are finally starting to see AIC, and Soundgarden as a metal band and a diverse metal band at that.
Necrotic Nick- It's subjective. Whether they're considered metal bands by some or hard rock bands by others doesn't change whether the fans love their music. It'll always be debatable because we're constantly drawing and re-drawing the lines when it comes down to the classification of some bands. Grunge was a blanket term just as I think "Alt Metal" is as well. It's a place to put something people have a hard time describing so we make up a storage unit for it essentially. I highly doubt they would have thrown Nevermore in the grunge category since the grunge movement seemed to look down on metal and I doubt there's any argument about Nevermore's status as a metal band.
@thrallsofmetal if Earth got thrown into the lump just because the dude was close friends with Kurt Cobain .. and the Melvins got thrown in the grunge lump..it's safe to say any metal band would have been included at the time.. even Qüeensryche got thrown in for a moment.. only to ge thrown out again. 😄
Necrotic Nick- I have not heard that cover but you bet your ass I'm going to look it up almost right after I type this comment out. That's one of my favorite tracks on the 2003 S/T album.
I know it's popular to say that metal was dead in the 90s, but I have such fond memories of metal in the 90s. Looking back now, I think it was one of the most exciting times in heavy music. The 80s were pretty much meat and potatoes metal, but the 90s opened heavy music up to a lot of experimentation, new genres, and just a lot of fresh new sounds. I still listen to every single band I got into in the 90s eg. White Zombie, Biohazard, Fear Factory, Cathedral, Entombed, Rollins Band, Danzig, Pro-pain, Machinehead, Sick of it All, etc. such a great decade. I never knew what to consider Rollins Band...so I just called it heavy jazz. lol. maybe post punk, but I have no idea what post punk is.
I would most likely agree I still always listen too alot of Metal albums from the 90s and late 80s the majority of time
Necrotic Nick- For certain kinds of metal it might have been dead but overall I just think metal mutated or did some cross pollinating or something because heavy music was still out there it just got rebranded I guess. The 90's were definitely more experimental for sure and honestly I return to that era often just because that's where my fandom of heavy music in general was really anchored. Rollins Band was one that I considered as well so maybe they'll pop up on the next one.
Heavy jazz is probably the best way I've ever heard Rollins Band described.
Pantera, Type O Negative, Ministry, Life Of Agony, Tool, NIN, Madball yeah it was a good decade for heavy music!
White Zombie, Fear Factory and Machine Head are my kind of thing. I call it 90s Metal. 😅
Alice In Chains and Soundgarden (the first 3 albums) are my favorite "grunge" bands because their music is more metal oriented
Necrotic Nick- I love both of them but I still need to get the pre-Badmotorfinger albums from Soundgarden. Even that one has some big metal riffs on it though.
In my opinion AIC and Soundgarden was true grunge. Grunge to me is the heavy drop tuned sludgy riffs inspired by Sabbath. Nirvana was punk, and Pearl Jam is alt-rock(Ten was the only true grunge album)
@@thrallsofmetal my old singer was the the biggest Soundgarden fan ever. Long b4 badmotorfinger came out. The 1st EP is I believe called "Screaming for life" or "Fopp" can't remember offhand but either way there's a tune on one of those I think "Screaming" called "Nothing to say" we used to do and it's more metal than metal I guess lol. Cornell just kills it. Def worth checking out.
@@chadcassidy1580This is why I think grunge is a myth there is just too many different styles to lump them all together
I agree about Killing Joke. Definitely in the post-punk realm but I dig the metallic leanings
Necrotic Nick- It's wild how fluid their sound can be. More snarling and metallic one sec and then the next very melodic and almost new wave-ish. They've been a favorite of mine for years.
Primus is whatever genre they feel like being at the moment
I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for the melvins and faith no more. No joke
Necrotic Nick- Well, I'm glad you're here to still tell people how much their music means to you.
I would also add. WEEN. Not a metal band but they definitely love and have the spirit of the metal
It’s Gonna Be a Long Night is pretty much a lost Motörhead song, the band itself is kinda like Faith No More where the styles really jump from track to track
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, I've never jammed that much Ween but I know Miller is a diehard fan of that band.
Ween is great!
This is the most accurate way I've ever heard someone describe Kvelertak, I completely agree!
What a great idea for a video. Might even be able to create a series out of it. Well done sir. Love these bands.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I think I'm going to make a series out of it since I still had a ton of bands on the list left over.
I started consciously listening to music and buying records when I was 13 in 1985. I got hooked on classic metal like DIO, JUDAS PRIEST and IRON MAIDEN. But a school colleague also introduced me to a completely different style of music. On the one hand it was harder electro music like FRONT 242, SKINNY PUPPY, KMFDM and the early MINISTRY and on the other hand 80s post punk and gothic rock like SISTERS OF MERCY, JOY DIVISION and FIELDS OF NEPHILIM. So I had a relatively broad musical background and had no problems with all the alternative metal and rock bands of the 90s. These bands often had heavy metal influences but also influences from alternative bands. And I found that exciting. That's why, unlike many traditional heavy metal fans, I say the 90s were great. Even today I still listen to rocking music from a variety of genres and it's fun. Because there are only two types of music, good and bad, great video 👍
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I started buying my own music around that age as well though it was in the 90's so there was a good blend of the more alternative stuff as well as metal for me to feast on. I often looked for those bands that sorta blurred the lines though and I also got into industrial big time with Front Line Assembly, NIN and Die Krupps in particular. I didn't discover goth rock until much later ultimately with my hunt for heavy music I ended up going down a ton of different avenues and it's been a lot of fun so far. I'm eventually going to do another one of these since there's a ton of bands I didn't touch on yet.
Heavy but not metal: The Birthday Party, Swans, Head of David, Jesus Lizard, Big Black, Shellac, Lightning Bolt, Virus (the Norwegian Carheart one)... Then there's Scott Walker's Tilt, The Drift & Bish Bosh - heavy in their own disturbing way. The Drift is particularly harrowing. Meat punching & foul-mouthed Donald Duck included.
RIP Geordie. There's no Killing Joke without him.
Swans definitely
Necrotic Nick- Man, there's a lot here I'm not familiar with. I know Head of David, Shellac and The Jesus Lizard but I've honestly not dove much into Swans or the others. I definitely plan on jamming some Swans just because I feel like that one is long overdue.
You covered a lot of bands I wanted to point out as well, good taste!
I like the swans there heavy
Brill list..Don't forget the band US band Daughters. Their latest dark and heavy as hell yet no metal.. FFO Swans, The Jesus Lizard, Arab On Radar...
I turned 18 in 91 and a lot of this music I still go back to. Melvins, FNM, Primus, AIC, Pixies etc. It was one of the great eras of music with a lot of experimentation and open minded exploration and blending of different styles. Still loved metal too and was really into Voivod and other sort of quirky stuff. Lived in the SF area at the time and got to see a lot of shows. Many awesome small club Melvins shows. You had people moshing at every Primus show. Awesome times.
This is the conversation (which usually turns into argument) that I seem to have most often with other like minded music fans. Glad to see someone address this. Great job.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, this is one I've been toying with for awhile since the term "metal" or even "heavy" can be so broad. I wanted to get some discussions going since this is often debated and I'm definitely going to do some follow ups for sure.
@@thrallsofmetalFor me I just call it all alt-metal I would call 90% of the bands you name are metal I think the question really is why is metal so rigid and why can't we have experimentation whilst still being metal
Good video u got ur self a new sub
@@thrallsofmetal 👍
Great topic, Nick! Don’t know if you will mention these guys, but there are the Albini bands - I’d say not metal, but definitely heavy and a lot of metallic elements. Talking about Big Black , Rapeman, Shellac.
Rage Against the Machine of course. Smashing Pumpkins first album has some metallic moments.
What about Acid Bath? Are they metal? Most might say “yes” but songs like Scream of the Butterfly, When the Kite String Pops are not really metal. And then, Nirvana’s Bleach is pretty metallic.
Edit: forgot about the Jesus Lizard!
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I don't own a lot of Steve's bands sadly but those are ones I've been meaning to dive into. I already have a pretty big list (that seems to keep growing) and you've brought up quite a few that I definitely plan on going over. This topic has definitely given me a ton of avenues to go down here.
Props to mentioning Quicksand. Massively underrated.
Fudge Tunnel was one of my favorite heavy bands back in the 90's. Not metal, but as close to it as I came back then when I was mostly just into punk. When I heard Helmet the first time, I kind of wrote them off as a pop rip off version of FT. Don't hate me, I was a snooty music kid back then. They only made 3 albums :(Hate Songs in E Minor, Creep Diets, and The Complicated Futility of Ignorance), but I love them to this day.
Necrotic Nick- Fudge Tunnel is an interesting one. They're still in the Archives but they're an odd fit since their sound is really a blend of different stuff. I have all of their stuff so there's a good chance I might bring them up in the future when I come back to this one.
Killing Joke is just an amazing band.. definitely deserved and deserves more attention.
Guess having that trad and heavy, discussion could open up some floodgates or other avenues. To what could be described as “metal.” I’ve been guilty of calling things I see that others struggle to at times when it comes to the genre as well as others.
Necrotic Nick- Actually, I've had this one done for close to a month honestly. I was just looking for a good time to drop it. I figured this would open up a lot of fun discussion in the comments and so far it has. It's all subjective which is what makes it fun.
I was just thinking about this topic. I saw Mr Bungle supported by the Melvins a few days ago. It was interesting to see how much metal was part of the Bungle set. There were covers, both full and partial, of metal bands like Slayer. In fact, the encore song was cover of Sepultura's Territory. But there was also everything else, which defies clear categorisation. But clearly, metal is a cherished influence of Bungle, especially with the current lineup.
Necrotic Nick- It's a fun topic and it really does open up Pandora's Box a bit. I always thought of Bungle as an avant garde band which is still pretty accurate but when they re-recorded their OG demo I was blown away as I didn't know they were a thrash band in the past. Mike likes to get into strange stuff musically but I think his home base is still very much with the metalheads.
@@thrallsofmetal They played probably all of that album in the set, and it totally went off. It was a amazing gig.
When Primus opened for Rush (Roll the Bones tour), it was fantastic..
Great video! A lot of bands in this category have put out really great stuff. I've been getting into a lot of the bands you mentioned in this video recently. I think the post-hardcore bands NoMeansNo and The Jesus Lizard can also fit into this category, since they have a lot of heavy moments that border on metal imo. Also, glad you mentioned Today is the Day, they're super underrated. Same with Quicksand.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Agreed. I like music that blurs the boundaries in metal. It can be even more intriguing when you can't just label something easily. I'm not familiar with NoMeansNo but I definitely know The Jesus Lizard which was one I considered for this one. I still think Today is the Day is a more metal project than most of these honestly and it was just awesome to get a chance to talk about Quicksand at length on here. I've been a huge fan of them for years.
@@thrallsofmetalYeah, I agree. NoMeansNo are awesome, they were around for decades but never really got as much notoriety as a lot of other post-hardcore acts, but the people that do know them acclaim them pretty highly. I think they were pretty ahead of their time. If you'd want to check them out I would first recommend basically any album from 1986's "Sex Mad" to 1993's "Why Do They Call Me Mr. Happy?", which is what I believe to be their prime period. My starting point to them was 1989's "Wrong" album, which many of their fans consider their magnum opus. They definitely fit mainly into the post-hardcore/art punk territory but I think they border on metal because they sounded a lot heavier and more abrasive than many of their contemporaries (some people consider them "prog punk"). They also have a lot of parts of their songs that personally remind me a bit like Primus or Faith No More. The "Why Do They Call Me..." album in particular I think has some pretty metal sounding riffs at some places. That album even has a song that samples "We Care a Lot" by FNM and the song itself sounds a lot like the late-80s era of that band.
Bands I love im a big Melvins, Faith No More, Helmet ,Killing Joke ,Deftones,and AIC 's fan. You named a couple bands ill definitely check out Hum and Today Is The Day. I would say all those bands could fall into different genres of metal . I'm a metal head that's into extreme bands like Bolt Thrower and Godflesh but also appreciate all types of heavy & extreme music.
Necrotic Nick- There's definitely an argument to be made for any of these bands being metal honestly. Metal itself is such a broad genre of music anyway but some of these definitely do blur the lines quite a bit.
Hum is one of my favorites bands extremely underrated and infuilental ive been listening to them since electra 2000 and helmet as well strap it on is extremely raw and dark (hum is deftones biggest influence)
Its a great list. Because all the bands listed aren't metal, yet most metal heads love these bands! Myself included! There has to be some crazy science behind this! Great channel, subbed!
Great vid!
Never heard about HUM. Will definitely check them out.
Also thought about Fudge Tunnel and Handsome (ex-Helmet) while watching this
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I definitely recommend Hum's last album "Inlet" in particular. I totally forgot about Handsome honestly but Fudge Tunnel might make an appearance when I do another one of these.
@@thrallsofmetal Inlet is incredible. RIP to their drummer, Bryan.
If you like Fudge Tunnel check out the first couple Godflesh and Therapy? records.
Yes fudge tunnel wasn't expecting this
Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. These bands definitely surpass the generic rubbish that, strangely, seems to be liked by so many people nowadays. There's no accounting for taste, apparently!
Helmet "Size Matters" is a fahkingAMAZING album as well, kehd!
Necrotic Nick- That one's OK. Crashing Foreign Cars is a pretty fun jam.
Really enjoyed this, Nick! Kept me occupied on my train ride home from seeing the opening night of the Obsessed tour! Was awesome to see Quicksand get mention. Great band.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I really enjoyed doing this one and it's been awesome to see some great discussions being brought up in the comments. I still have yet to see The Obsessed live. I hope you had a blast at the show, man!
@@thrallsofmetal thanks dude! They were awesome. Def see if you can! I haven’t seen Wino live since the 90s when I saw spirit caravan. Dude hasn’t missed a step!
So glad you mentioned today is the day. Wearing a Pain is a Warning Hoodie while watching.
titd is my all time favorite band with Faith No More being no 2. Great vid all metal heads should listen to anything on amphetamine reptile and every band in this video
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I've been a big fan of Today is the Day for years. They're uniquely heavy and in away possibly more visceral than a lot of metal bands that people flat out consider metal. Faith No More is one of my all time favorite bands and honestly Mike Patton might be my favorite vocalist ever.
Great video Nick it's very important to know all these groups each of them had a place in the heritage of metal, and you didn't name them but there were maybe the Swans too right ? keep it up, it’s great !
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! This was a lot of fun to do honestly and I've been holding on to this video for awhile. Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with Swans so I didn't include them. I definitely want to give them a more thorough listen before bringing them up in one of these because I see they're getting a lot of love in the comments.
Love the idea for this video, I hope you do more! I've heard of most of these bands but completely forgot about them like Hum who are from my home state.. Took me down a wild rabbit hole! Faith No More is arguably my favorite band ever along with Alice in Chains! When you go back and look at how many hits AiC and FNM had, it's historic, does that even happen anymore these days? Was lucky enough to see them both live in their primes, FNM was the craziest night of my entire life, seeing them with a girl who I met online, we tripped in acid and I never saw her since but I'm sure she remembers our exploits! Saw AiC with my best friend, will never forget that rainy night, getting a ride from my uncle and getting picked up by my mom at the Aragon Ballroom because we were too young to drive... After the show, the band was shooting Ketchup & Mustard from the window onto the fans leaving, hilarious, I can go on and on.. Please make more of these!✌️
really looking forward to hear your opinion about deftones. i heard you guys touch on them a little in the past. zoomers really ruined their image but i think they’re really neat, they got some heavy songs for sure 🤘
Necrotic Nick- I'm a long time Deftones fan and I've always thought it was interesting how they were debated in terms of whether or not they're a metal band. There's definitely arguments to be made for sure.
Glad to see Hum get some love, been a fan since i was a teen actually. I think Inlet came out in 2022 cuz it was nearly 20 years after downward is heavenward
Alice In Chains are totally a metal band…
No grunge or alternative band could’ve gone on the Clash Of The Titans tour and have had Tom Araya do a cameo on their album!
I can’t picture Eddie Vedder playing in front of a Slayer crowd and surviving! 🤘🏼
Necrotic Nick- Vedder would have been skinned alive by the Slayer fans lol
Would you classify NYHC as a metal sub genere?
No. Some of It had some metal influences(eg. Cro-mags), but not metal. Same as thrash metal had punk influences, it's not punk.
The breakdowns can be pretty heavy for Hardcore Sick of it all for example have elements of punk and early Agnostic front think more so into the 90s NYHC kinda got more metal infused where there mid early 80s stuff have some strong Hardcore punk elements too it
Necrotic Nick- Hardcore and metal do flirt with each other but generally when they meet it's in crossover or metalcore/ metallic hardcore. I still think straight up hardcore is its own thing.
Also, A lot of these bands I first heard because of Beavis and Butthead. Melvins, Hum, Quicksand, Helmet, Primus, Faith No More. And I think Alice in Chains was seen as a grunge band where I lived BUT metal fans tended to like them more. Where as Punk and Indie kids tended to like Nirvana more.
Necrotic Nick- It's kinda strange but in retrospect that show introduced me to a ton of killer stuff that MTV had pretty much taken out of their regular rotations at the time. Yeah, I had AIC in the grunge category for years but honestly I can totally see why people call them more of a metal band now. They definitely had more of a metal sound in comparison to a lot of the grunge bands.
Great list. Liked this video.
Killing Joke was very post punk in the start that got darker, heavier inc industrial, riff heavy feel..
Helmet, I always saw them as a pure noise/noise rock band from New York that evolved to a lot more groove, polished oriented albums and melodic parts..
Quicksand definitely more of a hardcore/post hardcore band that again evolved to more alternative rock type of stuff.
I'm afraid haven't listened to HUM. The name rings a bell far away. Will defo check!
Deftones: originally a hardcore band/crossover band influenced by Bad Brains, 7 Seconds, The Smiths...they got darker, heavier throughout their catalogue..easily to call them alternative metal oh yeah..
Faith No More is the quintessential crossover band blending so many styles, it's incredible..
The Melvins, masters of heavy sludgy, stoner, desert, doomy rock with the odd metal and full experimental, noise rock influence..
Alice in chains defo a metal oriented heavy rock band influenced by 80's metal and classic rock but very moody and dark yet always melodic.. they never really go abrasive or obscure. It always stays tuneful and polished. Incredible band! Huge loss for them losing Staley but Duvall does a fantastic job and they remain successful. If only Soundgarden could pull it like this cuz their music too good, so memorable.. I'm sure they could have been a successor to Cornell who was mindblowing..
Primus' very much of an odd ball and absolutely incredible band.. they're definitely influenced by some metal and progrock and they fit in the alternative rock scene and very experimental and weird.. they got that funk metal crossover vibe.
Today Is The Day is absolutely phenomenal and one of my all time favourite bands.. very unique delivery and sonic hellish textures..Austin influenced by old school metal, punk and progrock, psych, art rock and psychedelic music. The band definitely rooted in experimental noise rock developing into darker noisier, sludgier metal hardcore with grindcore exploits and these days very eerie psych post metal/rock type of stuff..
Swans were insanely heavy, noisy and confrontational in their early days. They made a lot of metal bands in the 80's sound tame by comparison. Check out Cop or Filth, plus any other albums or video footage from that decade. Cop alone can probably rattle your walls if you play it loud enough.
Necrotic Nick- That's definitely a band I need to dive into more. I've known about them for years but I've never really checked out much by them. I'm probably going to do another one of these at some point so I think this listen is long overdue.
Hum?? Hell yeah! One of my favs! Electro 2000 is good! It's raw, stripped down and punkish. Definitely worth checking out! Fillet Show is long out of print and not on streaming services.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, very overlooked band from the mid to late 90's right there. I still need to check out their album before You'd Prefer an Astronaut but I will if I can find them. I'm hoping they do a follow up to Inlet but I believe one of their members recently died so I don't know what the status of the band is right now.
One of the reasons Primus is in my top 5 bands ever, they are really an unique band and even though they are great musicians they don´t take themselves too seriously, not too many bands can say the same.
My favorite heavy non-metal acts that have been instrumental in helping me connect, further connect and even re-connect with various sides of metal in the almost 34 years of my life as a metal fan: Joy Division, Killing Joke, Poison Idea, King Crimson (especially with Bill Bruford), Genesis (Peter Gabriel in the role of Watcher Of The Sky is the original second wave black metal lord IMHO), Jimi Hendrix, Jethro Tull (huge fan), Tori Amos (huge fan), Dead Can Dance, Frank Zappa, dEUS. I could name a few more, but this list should do. Great topic, not I will continue watching! 🔥🎶
Necrotic Nick- Same here, man. While I'd say at least as far as bands it was more along the lines of Helmet, Quicksand and Deftones that I gravitated to initially Killing Joke was a huge eye opener for me in terms of a band that had a unique take on heavier music. There's a lot of more classic acts like some of the ones you've mentioned here that are also on the cusp so I'm definitely going to do some follow ups to this one.
@@thrallsofmetal I tried to keep it short, so didn't touch upon AIC, Bad Brains, Throbbing Gristle, etc. Looking forward to your next episode on the topic, and please bring in Mr. Shred Lord and Mr. Jamming Jon if this is not asking for too much. I would be interested in hearing their story.
Basically you are describing my favorite 90s bands. Every single band you brought up and went over was 100% amazingly spot on. I’ll just focus on HUM here, I’m a gigantic HUM nerd! HUM is actually a local band where I grew up here in Central Illinois. I would say they were my first truly heavy band. The first time I heard Stars on the radio, I lost my mind. I never heard that wall of sound before, those sludgy bombastic guitars and that fucking chugging riff just slays. The drumming is spectacular and Matt’s drone vocals are perfection. Little Dipper is straight up gaze city and easily my favorite HUM song. The Pod and Stars have very metallic breakdowns. I didn’t have MTV then, no Internet, the radio was it and HUM basically changed everything. Inlet I would describe as Post Stoner-gaze Metal maybe? The Summoning certainly reflects that description. Dude. HUM! Helmet, FNM, Smashing Pumpkins, AIC, Handsome, Quicksand, glassjaw, etc etc
Necrotic Nick- The 90's were a wild time for music. There was a ton of experimentation going on especially in heavier music in general and a lot of these bands had a huge impact on my tastes just as much as all the flat out metal bands I was jamming. Hum is such an awesome band and honestly one of the one's I was the most excited to talk about because of how overlooked they are. Yeah, I remember seeing the Stars video on Beavis & Butthead and when that riff hit them they changed their tune I think represented a lot of fans of heavier music when that moment exploded. Inlet was such an awesome surprise when it dropped and I think "post-stoner-gaze" is honestly pretty accurate. That main riff on Step Into You might be one of the catchiest things they've ever written. Yeah, there's still a lot of other bands I'm planning to bring up so there will be sequels to this one.
Sometimes you get a band who are there own genre Kvelertak are definitely that and i can’t wait to see them in London in Feb
Hard agree that Helmet fans are metal fans. Also, this reminded me that I have a ticket to see them live in May, so that rules
Necrotic Nick- I'm still on the fence about that show. I know they're playing in Detroit around that time but I've got a lot of other shows coming up as well.
@@thrallsofmetal I hear you. Cattle Decapitation is playing less than 10 miles from my house this spring. My only reservation there is that my next door neighbor, who also happens to be a metalhead, has a scar on his forehead from when he saw them live. Apparently, a Cattle Decap pit is no joke.
I've always loved the DEFTONES since the release of Around The Fur and seeing the My own summer Video blew me away. So heavy but different and unique all at the same time. Went back and got their first album and was blown away again. Such a heavy awesome! Debut album. Been a huge Deftones fan ever since and own everything by them. And I'm a Metal Head since 1983 since I was 13 years old. Pretty much all genres of Metal
I listen to. And some Grunge Rock groups also. AIC and SOUNDGARDEN my absolute favorites. And I do also love FAITH NO MORE such a great unique group and Mike Patton is an incredible! Vocalist. Great idea for a video Nick I enjoyed it my friend. Take care brother🤘🍺
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Around the Fur is what made me a fan. Even though I was already into the nu metal sound at that point their was something different about Deftones. I got Adrenaline not long after and that cemented my fandom right there. I think being a teen in the 90's and the 90's being such an experimental decade in terms of heavy music really made me explore a lot of different avenues in "metal". I really got into thrash and death metal early on but I loved a lot of the heavier grunge bands and stuff like Helmet's Meantime and the mighty Faith No More (Mike is my favorite vocalist of all time). I also got into a lot of industrial music at that point too which further broaden my musical horizons. It's been a fun musical journey so far.
Them Crooked Vultures has the best metal/non-metal album. Also, Badmotorfinger inspired guitar tunings for mutoid man and early mastodon. Kim Thayl (spelling?) was innovative. Listen to rusty cage and then call of the void's riff. Sound familiar?
Kim Thayil played on Hushed and Grim - Mastodon, can't remember which song, though
@@SolarGluhe's a master of using the fuzz pedal for distortion. Lost art since Iommi. Much like Mastodon use to be like. His Guild with his fuzzy pixie dust and he's a tonesmith, much like the guitar players from the bands I mentioned.
Necrotic Nick- I love that album. I was going throw QOTSA on here but I already had a ton of bands on this one. Soundgarden was another one that might make an appearance as well in the future because I'm eventually going to return to this one. Kim did the lead on Had it All I believe on Hushed & Grim.
@thrallsofmetal the breakdown in "No One Loves Me..." is as heavy as it gets. Metal or not, I'm banging my shit every time.
@@thrallsofmetal I know Zeppelin over the years has been a borderline band as well. They are my favorite band of all time and the band that made me fall in love with music; however, 35 years after hearing them, I still can't determine. This would be a good one for the oldheads 🤣 Rainbow, Deep purple, UFO, Rush, and Yes. There's a show in itself. Love this angle, it helps to get other non metalheads into metal.
Kvelertak is amazing 👏 😍 great mention!!!
Necrotic Nick- I love all of their albums. That band is fuckin' brilliant.
My friends and I pretty much lumped all these under the catch all term "Alternative Metal". All brilliant bands btw... Killing Joke did go through different eras, my favorite the classic post punk era.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, the "alt metal" umbrella is a pretty big one but I think there's more to it which was another reason I wanted to do this one. There's a lot of heavy band out there that really had a unique approach to being heavy. Killing Joke is still one of my favorite bands but I started with Pandemonium so I tend to lean more toward the heavier stuff. Night Time might be my favorite though.
I saw Helmet and Quicksand together at 328 Performance Hall in Nashville in 94
I saw Helmet and Quicksand open for Clutch in Kansas City a couple years ago when Sunrise on Slaughter Beach came out. Great show!
A great band for this is the Japanese band boris(named after the melvins song). Their roots are in drone doom but they have a lot of experimental albums, even more experimental than the melvins are. For example albums like "new album" and 'attention please" which are like dream popy.
Necrotic Nick- I'm familiar with Boris. That band is just flat out strange and that discography is possibly more all over the place than Melvins. I've heard some of their heavier albums which definitely draw a lot from Melvins but some of their other ones are a bit too odd for me.
Excellent concept for a video. It was something that kind of revealed itself to me almost a decade ago. Until then, I considered my music tastes to lean into the realm of "artier" metel. Then I realized that metal typically (not always) employs a certain level of virtuasity in performance, really right production quality, a certain level of commitment to a visual persona and there's an adherence to a certain level of execution and craft. Almost none of that cleanly applies to the heavy bands I was listening to at that time such as Melvins, Boris, Grief, ISIS, Neurosis, Sunn O))) and that kind of stuff. If anything, those bands are more downstream of the punk scene than the metal scene.
It's a pretty forgivable goof in my mind though as going back to at least the thrash movement 40 years ago we saw a lot of overlap and inbreeding between the punk and metal scenes. Lots of punks started listening to some metal and metalheads were giving punk a listen and it makes all the sense in the world that young teenagers who were into those heavy scenes back then would eventually become more agnostic to such genre distinctions as they formed bands.
Genres can be a fun way to reference and contextualize music, but it can just as easily get in the way of enjoying and even understanding meaningful art. If you dig the music, that's all that really matters and genres become trivial.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I've been wanted to do a video like this for awhile just because there's so many bands like this where the lines blur in terms of what they're classified as. My love of metal is pretty broad these days honestly. I go down most avenues of metal and metal adjacent music. I love more artistic bands but I also love flat out primal ones too. Around the same time I was getting into metal I was also becoming a big fan of grunge, punk and hardcore too so I really enjoyed hearing heavy music done differently. The 90's in particular had so many of these bands so it was really cool seeing "metal" being pulled in so many different directions. That era in the 90's when I was a teen was definitely where I fell in love with music.
This was great! I love Killing Joke-impossible to categorize-but so heavy! Today is the Day I would say 80% metal! LOL I would add Swans too. So many great records. “The Seer” is probably the heaviest of the more recent records.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, I knew when I was getting this ready that Killing Joke was the perfect band to start with. They've confounded people for years as to what they are. Today is the Day is probably the most metal band on here but somehow still seems like an outlier for most people. I personally don't get it but whatever. I'm still not very familiar with Swans but I'll probably have to dive into their stuff when I come back around to this subject because I think a part 2 is already in order.
As I thought about it more Swans don’t play riffs, so they may not be metal at all…Very intense heavy music that I still recommend: I look forward to part 2!
Faith No More grabbed me from pop music and pulled me in to metal, I will always consider them metal as they were my gateway band.
Necrotic Nick- I still remember seeing the video for Epic when I was in 6th grade and feeling my brain explode. They've been a favorite ever since.
@@thrallsofmetal their SNL performances were fantastic with Patton scaling the wall & acting like a goof.
I think a lot of the Grunge (I hate that term) bands of the 90's were heavy and metallic enough to be in the Metal realm.
Soundgarden(early Soundgarden), AIC, who is one of my favorite bands of the 90's. were heavy enough to be called "metal".
QOTSA. Fu Manchu, TAD, Melvins, FNM, Mr Bungle, they were heavier that the so-called hair "metal" bands.
The funny thing about these bands are if you call these bands "metal" many slag it off and indignant about being called a "metal " band.
And finally...
TOOL??
Yes I love Tool
And I consider them Metal. 10,000 Days sound is lead heavy and Danny Carrey's drums are so fucking heavy on that album.
Gettin carried away.
Anyway, Nick, GREAT subject matter.
Keep up the great work!
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I kinda feel the same way about grunge. Much like "alt metal" it became a blanket terms for bands whose sound was hard to categorize but there was a ton of that in the 90's. The 90's really started to open the playbook a lot in terms of experimentation in heavy music and I think that's where were get a lot of these bands that tend to be heavy but also outliers in terms of metal. There's definitely going to be a follow up to this one at some point though.
Bruford era King Crimson - Robert Fripp created some seriously heavy riffs - go listen to the song Larks tongues in aspic pt. 2
Mahavishnu orchestra - not heavy in the traditional metal sense but heavy in a really sort of bombastic way - go listen to the song Vital Transformation
Gentle Giant - Again not heavy in a metal way but holy shit did Gary Green come up with some brutally heavy blues riffs - listen to Peel the Paint
Rush - Go listen to YYZ, enough said
The song Birds of Fire is pretty metal too
@@coffdrop77 indeed
Necrotic Nick- There's definitely some prog rock bands that had some heavier outings for their time that I may get to in the future. Rush was in consideration for this one but I already had a full roster.
Speaking of Mahavishnu…McLaughlin did an album called “Devotion”, the title track of which is super heavy
Here's a hot take. Reel Big Fish actually comes across as metal eventhough they're Ska. Candy Coated Fury is a brilliant metal/non metal album. Musicianship in that band is top notch.
Necrotic Nick- I think some ska bands have metal riffs every now and then but I don't think they're that close. I used to listen to a ton of Less Than Jake and they loved splicing in metal riffs every now and then and even pop punk bands like Sum 41 flirted with metal so there's definitely some weird ones you wouldn't expect out there.
Dude as a Jamaican I can tell you for a fact real big fish are not ska
The line blurs in many places. Motörhead, for example, Lemmy insisted they weren’t Metal.
Necrotic Nick- He did start embracing Motorhead being called a metal band later but I might have been begrudgingly just to get people off his back about it lol.
2:30 yep that was my intro to Killing Joke as well…love the Garage Days Re-revisited EP
Agreed…Meantime is Helmet at their best…Betty is also great
I got a bit bored of heavy music in my 20's, but I then I found Kvelertak which for me put the 'fun' back in it. high energy and rocking out is more my style now.
I would ask the question when does punk become metal, considering the likes of Disfear or Wolfpack/Wolfbrigade and similar d-beat bands, considering even that members of At the gates, Entombed etc played in them.
Necrotic Nick- I think punk still stays punk but when it crosses over into hardcore and the crustier side of punk like Disfear, Disrupt and all those Discharge & Doom worshiping bands it starts to blur the lines with metal. I do plan covering some of those in the future since the crust/ d-beat directly influenced a lot of metal in general.
Body Count is another awesome heavy band with loads of metallic riffs along with hip hop elements. Not metal or not, they kick ass!!!
One of them is dir en grey, many think they are alternative metal, they have avant-garde, progressive, among others but they do not reach metal itself.
the band The Scratch is great for this discussion they aren't metal but they have a song called Blaggard that is their heaviest kinda has a Godflesh vibe at least imo. The members actually had metal band together and decided to form The Scratch and bring groove and intensity of metal to their music. Their drummer uses a Cajon and is the main vocalist too
Man, really wish I could've weighed in on this debate, I agree on all of these bands, I have met true metal heads of all types that have dug each of these bands in their own way and have been influenced by them as musicians, solid band picks! Helmet led the post-hardcore scene into the 2000s, Deftones influenced the post 2000s emo vocal scene style, and Melvins kinda spawned the whole NW & NE 'Sludge/stoner' sound out of the 80s, Faith No More really spearheaded that heavy funk sound out of the early 90s along w/ RHCP
Necrotic Nick- It was a fun premiere but there's a ton of interesting comments to scour through on here with a lot of interesting takes. These bands have all influenced my tastes in one form or another and I still come back to them often and interesting to see what all these bands have influenced along the way as you brought up. It's weird thinking that sludge metal itself was influenced by a band that isn't completely metal or that Faith No More fused a more metal sound with a litany of different styles and it worked. This was a lot of fun to do and it's a sure bet I'll be returning to this one again.
Alice in chains are the black sabbath of Seattle
I always thought that I also call them hair metal if you replaced the kiss worship with Sabbath
Endon! Check out their show at Saint Vitus. It's utterly horrifying lol
Killing Joke 'Pandemonium' & Helmet 'Meantime' to me are two of the absolute best and most important albums of the 90's, regardless of whether they are to be considered 'metal' or not.. 🤗
Necrotic Nick- Same here. I jammed those all the time between blasting death and thrash metal. It's was cool to hear that they were different from the metal bands but I was still getting the same invigorated feeling listening to them. Those two album opened a ton of musical doors for me.
@@thrallsofmetal I like the fact that Jaz Coleman of Killing Joke could make his voice sound equally as demonic as any black or death metal vocalist, you could care to mention, when he wanted to. And Page Hamilton's riffs on the first, say, four Helmet albums equals those of Dimebag Darrell or Tommy Victor in greatness and importance in the 90's musical landscape.
My pick is Seether. They have some songs that can get very aggressive and heavy but I consider their style to be more hard rock than metal. Some of their songs like Pride, Needles and Pig still hit me emotionally just as much as they did 20 years ago. Also to make a long story very short, I had been absent for over a year due to experiencing what I call "metal burnout." Basically, for all of 2020 to the first half of 2022, listening to and collecting metal was pretty much my only hobby and I just hit a wall. In 2023, it was pretty much all video games and I hit a smaller wall there. In short, I'm learning that its not a good idea to put all my interests or hobbies into one basket at a time. I'm trying to spread out my interests between metal, gaming, movies and comics. I'm in a much better place now, haha.
They had some pretty metal songs on their last album. That scream in Dead and Done is pretty crazy, for post-grunge standards at least.
Necrotic Nick- Seether, at least when I was listening to them in their earlier career, always struck me as a halfway point between post-grunge bands like Puddle of Mudd or Candlebox and flat out nu metal. They definitely had their heavy moments that pushed them a bit past the commercial rock stuff out there so it's hard to say. Yeah, hobbies can be a bitch to manage. I slowed down on my movie collecting and just flat out stopped collecting comics just to make room for the music collecting. Since the channel is based around music that was the hobby I stuck with. That and I love collecting music clearly lol.
@@SolarGluI also really liked Beg. I thought that definitely pushed the envelope between hard rock and metal.
@@thrallsofmetalIm with you on the movie collecting bit. I looked through my collection the other day and pretty much have all the movies i want to watch more than once. IMO, there's no need for filler that ill never use.
@@thrallsofmetal Candlebox is not post grunge
So I'm a metalhead that also loves classic rock as far back as the stones and Beatles.
I like a lot of bands that are heavy or dark in a non-metal way like The Doors or Pink Floyd.
I've liked a lot of grunge. But tell me Soundgarden isn't at least in part Metal? They have deep, dark, doomy as fuck stuff that sits comfortably alongside sabbath(my fav). Here you already discussed AIC, which is probably my favorite among more recent bands.
I more say a like heavy music. Some is metal, some maybe not.
Necrotic Nick- Generally my non-metal listening scratches different itches for the most part but I still tend to gravitate to music with a darker edge. Sometimes it more clearly borders on metal, sometimes it's really far removed from it but sometimes it's really difficult to say what it is. A lot of if is perspective but I definitely want to talk about those bands that have one foot possibly in the metal camp... maybe lol. It's kind of a fun and very wide open discussion for sure.
Have you heard the stoner rock Slayer tribute band Slower? Features members of Fu Manchu, Kylesa and Monolord.
Necrotic Nick- Nope but I'm intrigued as hell now. That has the potential to be amazing.
When I was a whippersnapper in the early 90s, you had to be either a grunge kid or a metal kid. Sure, privately you could like whatever you wanted but publicly, you had to pick a camp. Alice In Chains was the main band that split the difference. You could talk to a kid in a Metallica shirt or a Nirvana shirt and they'd be like "You listen to Alice in Chains? Cool. I guess we can be friends." 😂
And metal or not... Hum is a criminally underrated band.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, when I was younger it seemed that way too. There's was a needless rift between the fanbases but I'll agree that AIC was the band that seemed to bridge the two. They had the dark, heaviness that the metalheads were looking for but the catchy rock hooks the grunge kids wanted. Hell, I've met very few people in my life didn't love AIC honestly. Yeah, Hum was so underrated. Hopefully they follow up Inlet as some point.
I got some submissions for the follow-up:
Disturbed
Five Finger Death Punch
Marilyn Manson
Linkin Park
(hed)pe
Rush (influential for progressive metal)
Ghost
Queen (another influential rock band)
Avenged Sevenfold (definitely were flipping through genres on that dumpster fire that was Life is But a Dream)
Foo Fighters
Kid Rock (he dabbled in the world of nu metal on his 4th album, Devil Without a Cause, and his song "American Badass" samples "Sad But True" from Metallica and has a thrashy section mid-song)
Hardy (been throwing in nu metal elements mixed with country)
Two of the bands listed are touring this summer!
Necrotic Nick- I’ve never heard of any of these bands. Are they all ska bands?
@@thrallsofmetal The first three are nu metal. The second and third artists listed are the two that are touring this summer!
Necrotic Nick- Robert, there's way more than just 2 bands touring this summer.
@@thrallsofmetal I was talking about FFDP and Marilyn Manson, Nick! And it's Manson's return to the stage for the first time in years after all that bullshit he went through the last few years!
Necrotic Nick- When he removed his ribs so he could gratify himself?
AIC alt metal as it’s between trad metal and alt rock.
Deftones alt metal for similar reasons.
And FNM.
Alt metal is a helpful and encompassing descriptor for sure
Necrotic Nick- I like the term but I think it's very broad and I also feel like any band that's not clearly defined in another subgenre of metal just gets thrown there without a lot of consideration.
@@thrallsofmetal Fair. It’s very broad indeed. Other descriptors always can be thrown into the mix for individual bands
Tool was first thing that came to my mind. I never considered them as metal. The next two would probably be God Is An Astronaut and Smile Empty Soul.
Necrotic Nick- That was a big one I deliberately left off simply because I was pretty sure this would end up being a series so Tool will eventually show up because their status still gets debated a lot.
Metal or not, Killing Joke is one of the best damn bands I've ever heard. Bummed I didn't get to see them live.
Necrotic Nick- Agreed and same about not seeing them live. I've been a fan since Pandemonium and it broke my heart when Geordie died. That dude was such an innovative guitarist and one of the big reasons I fell in love with the band's sound.
My wife can’t stand metal but digs a ton of Deftones and Faith No More tracks. She’s been to two Deftones shows as well with me! All hail Deftones and my personal alltime fav band…Faith No More 🙌
Necrotic Nick- I know people that are the same way honestly. They really don't like metal but they dig Deftones and stuff like that. They're a pretty solid gateway band to be honest. As for Faith No More, they're still one of my favorite bands to this day and probably got me into so many different styles of music just because of how eclectic they are. Mike Patton is the GOAT in terms of vocalists in my opinion too.
I would say Hum is a weird combination of Emo,Shoe gaze,alternative metal and Space rock.
how about dillinger escape plan... they are heavy too
Necrotic Nick- I still think they fit under the metal/ metalcore banner for the most part.
52:31 ❤️❤️UNSANE❤❤
Necrotic Nick- Unsane rules.
I would say breakcore artists fit here too. Despite being mainly electronic and digital, artists like Aphex Twin, Atari Teenage Riot or Igorrr make heavy music which could be labeled "not-metal". Not sure if Igorrr is classified as a "metal" band, but anyway the sound of breakcore gives me a similiar feel I get from metal.
Necrotic Nick- You could definitely make that argument. I know Dino was on a track on Atari Teenage Riot's "60 Second Wipeout" and there's flat out metal on Igorr's album in particular. I'm probably going to a follow up to this at some point since there's a ton of bands I didn't have time for.
I love metal, but this bands are my favorite kind of heavy music. FNM, AIC, Helmet, deftones, Quickand...that's the stuff i listen to everyday
Necrotic Nick- I kinda love it all namely because I got into all at the same time. Hardcore was a big part of my listening as well so there might be some more hardcore leaning bands showing up in future episodes.
@@thrallsofmetal into another???
These are some of my all time favorite bands…music I’ve been listening to since middle school in the mid 90s…I’d put tool ,neurosis and king gizzard in this conversation as well. Seeing Primus in may can’t wait…they suck !
Necrotic Nick- Same here. Tool is definitely one I'm going to talk about in the future with this series but I'll probably leave Neurosis out as I see them as pretty much the godfathers of post metal. I really need to listen to more King Gizzard but it's hard to even pick a place to start with that band. I hope you have a blast at that Primus show!
I’d say Deftones, AIC and Soundgarden all fit within alt metal. I’d throw FNM into the alt metal category, even though they do hop around between genres.
Melvins are a sludge metal band.
Would love to see this become a series. Would be interesting to see you tackle this same debate but with classic hard rock bands like UFO, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, etc.
Necrotic Nick- I'd say they could but the thing is with the term "alt metal" any band that's heavy but outside of the traditional subgenre's can kinda fit there. It's kind of a blanket terms for a lot of bands that don't necessary have a similar sound all the time. Melvins are a tough one because while their early stuff laid the groundwork from sludge metal they're sound has gone all over the place. I'm definitely going to do some follow ups to this one since it was a lot of fun doing it and it seems to get some great discussions going. There's a ton of bands I'd like to touch on in the future in this format.
Whether AIC is considered metal or not, there’s no question they’ve influenced countless metal bands.
Necrotic Nick- Won't even argue that one.
When I really started buying CDs in the 90s I didn't really care for genres. So there was Soundgarden, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Skyclad, Iced Earth, Prodigy, AIC, Helloween, RATM...
I didn't care. Today I listen to music from Beach Boys to Bloodbath and from Yes to Enslaved. Would be boring to stick to one genre only.
Regarding heavy bands, that are not really Metal, I would add Prodigy. In the 90s they blew away a lot of metal bands live. And Kvelertak just like Solstafir are Metal for me. Same with Alcest, Myrkur or The Ocean for me. Are their last few albums really Metal? Some call them Post Metal or something. But for me, they are on the Metal side.
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, when I was a teen I used to blind buy a ton of stuff just looking for new and interesting music. If the cover, logo or band pic looked like something I'd like I'd snag it. Even when I found myself more drawn to heavier music I would still check out a bunch of stuff that didn't scream metal when I saw it. Dude, I thought about bringing The Prodigy into this one if only for how vicious of an album Fat of the Land is. I love that album. Kvelertak is an interesting one since their sound is all over the place but it feels glued together by metal while I feel like Solstafir gets more accepted as a metal band more often.
@@thrallsofmetal Kvelertak is great. It has that Rock‘n‘Roll vibe mixed in with hints of black metal. I also thought about Smashing Pumpkins. They have some heavy songs like Zero. And the Adore album sounds partially like Goth Metal. It is heavier that e.g. Paradise Lost was at that time.
Especially in the 90s a lot of heavy bands made some not very metallic albums. Metallica went Alternative, Amorphis, Sentenced and others went 70s rock. Tiamat and The Gathering made electronic psychedelic albums.
And then there are bands like in the Woods or Green Carnation. They have metal guys as band members and all their fans are metal fans, but the music is not really metal. Same with Wardruna.
I Forgot about NIN. Broken hit as hard as any metal at the time. Idk if they're considered metal, but they're a borderline band to me. I love this band.
Necrotic Nick- I'm definitely going to throw in NIN at some point. I didn't want to overload this one with too many huge names so I'd still have some to talk about later.
Swans is on of the heaviest bands that is not metal, and honestly heavier than most metal bands
I would also argue for Depeche Mode, but they are heavier mood-wise, rather than sonically
Necrotic Nick- Swans will definitely be one I cover at some point. I still need to really check out more of their stuff to be honest though. As much as I love Depeche Mode I'd probably leave them off this one.
@@thrallsofmetal Public Castration is one of the heaviest albums ever recorded in any genre imo. If you are not already familiar with it, it will surely convince you
My daughter was ostentatiously drying her hair during vour Melvin’s segment. Did you mention The Maggot? That’s a pretty heavy album.
Necrotic Nick- I didn't mention that one since I don't own it. I'm not even sure I've listened to that one but with Melvins discography it's understandable missing entire albums lol. I'll have to go back and check that one out.
Bands I’d like to hear your take on: Chelsea Wolfe, Alcest and Converge
Wtf even is Alcest? I love their sophomore album, but it doesn't really sound like metal, let alone black metal/blackgaze. I would moreso consider it shoegaze with the occasional black metal vocals but rarely.
Converge is metal i don't care what anyone says. In Petitioning the Empty Sky you can even hear a little bit of Slayer influence.
Necrotic Nick- I thought about Converge for this one but for me I'd say they're a metalcore band but one that definitely stands apart from most of the metalcore out there. I might bring them up in the next one. Chelsea Wolfe is definitely an interesting one too. She's really hard to categorize herself. I've never been much of a Alcest fan but I'd still argue they're "blackgaze" which I still think is close enough to black metal in general to be called metal even though there's a lot of black metal fans that hate that subgenre.
@@Ricter3x0x0x9 Pretty sure Converge would call that their 'hardcore kids playing leftover Slayer riffs' era.
The heaviest genre of metal I play on my college radio station is thrash. And that's because it can be very hard to play death metal on the radio. Deicide, and Cannibal Corpse are those examples. And that's because I can't understand what the vocals are saying and plus since it's FM radio, I'm not allowed to have swear words on the air and we all understand why. It's not Sirus XM. If it was, I'd definitely be playing a ton of black and death metal. But since it's not fun editing the lyrics for both of these genres, I don't play them. Although I have played Death every now and then. These guys are so talented. Chuck is the Godfather of Death Metal. I do play a ton of symphonic metal because at least there are no swear words in the songs. Even if there aren't any swear words, I do checkup the lyrics so that I know where I need to edit. I do a good job with editing though. Metal does not get played on mainstream radio as much, which is a reason why college radio exists. Music you don't hear anywhere else. I have said this time and time again that I combine classic rock with alternative, punk and metal music. I've also said that my mom isn't the biggest fan of my metal music I play, but she does love my 60s shows and whenever I play Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, and The Cure. My show has brought an appeal to both the older audience and the younger audience. I may have turned my audience to bands that they never heard of. I enjoy being on college radio. Definitely a fun experience. I do some talking on the show as well, talking about music news, like recent deaths, tours, new song/album releases, and sometimes I talk about the songs/bands and why I decided to play them. I make them very personal. I also check up on sports, local and college events that are going on. I have to keep up with the news too and give them updates about them. Just sucks that I can't play a bunch of the heavier subgenres due to editing bad language. I thought it would be safer by not playing some of these bands, despite I have love for some of these bands.
Necrotic Nick- You could always look into the lyrics so you don't get in trouble.
I consider helmet an alternative metal band but with roots in hardcore tbh. Even John Stanier called their sound a "thinking man's metal band".
And the groove has a lot in common with the grunge scene which like AIC and Soundgarden due to being groove. (Post) Hardcore before that wasn't groovy at all, they're ultra different and metallic compared to Fugazi or Drive Like Jehu. The only HC thing are the yells
Necrotic Nick- There's definitely an argument to be made there especially since this band is often sited as one of the big influences to nu metal in particular. I think a lot of grunge pulled from classic rock and kinda put a punkish spin on it especially with the early grunge bands but groove definitely was a big part of it.
@@thrallsofmetal kind of? I mean, I mean bands like AIC, Melvins, Nirvana (Bleached era) and Soundgard had a very dirty sludge/Doom sound.
So imo grunge and nü metal weren't genres per say because there was a lot of variety
Hearing about Deftones would be very interesting. I consider them to be a metal band, despite some people not thinking so. It really depends on their point of view. But regardless, an important band and influential. Plus, they are one of the best nu metal bands of all time. Very consistent discography and everyone in the band has a ton of talent. I would also say that Korn are also metal. You either love them or hate them. They are the pioneers of nu metal and have a roller coaster of a career.
Necrotic Nick- Deftones are definitely more on the metal side just because of Steph's riff style. You can tell some of big his influences are metal just by listening to his tone and riff style Whether they're metal or not really doesn't matter though. I love their music overall.
Helmets first 3 albums are sick. Now...not so much.
Soundgarden. Also while Cave In. (Started metal they seem to have drifted off towards rock).
Necrotic Nick- Both of those I considered for this one but I left off just because I already had a ton of bands on the list. There's definitely going to be more of these in the future though.
This would prove to be an interesting subject
Necrotic Nick- It was a lot of fun to do as well.
Probably the biggest debate to ever come across music haha
Necrotic Nick- Agreed lol.
I'd say Quicksand are firmly Post-Hardcore, like Fugazi, but much more Alt Metal
Necrotic Nick- I'd agree there but every now and then I think Quicksand has some more metallic songs when it comes down to the riffs.
Not a massive fan but Volbeat is another band that I'd say is up for debate about being a metal band. Metal-adjacent at the very least.
Necrotic Nick- I'd honestly argue they're a flat out metal band just with rockabilly and punk in their sound.
@@thrallsofmetal honestly, fair. I can't remember the song off hand but there was a straight up old school death metal riff in it that caught me off guard it made me go "WTF THIS IS VOLBEAT?!" lol.
Necrotic Nick- Paulson's got some death metal cred. His old band Dominus rips and his band with Mark Grewe Asinhell is fucking heavy as hell.
[WARNING: Wall of text]
I think this discussion is really going to come down to the definition of metal, and in my experience, that's going to vary from person to person. I have my own definition, but I recognize that plenty of folks would disagree with me (and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong to do so). That being said, I do have some thoughts on this video's topic, but it's going to be based on my definition, which is: metal is based on meticulous, clockwork-like rhythms. I know a lot of folks focus on riffs, but for me, it's the machine-like chugging that is the foundation of metal and its subgenre. Think about the first few seconds of "You've Got Another Thing Comin'" by Judas Priest. Admittedly, this is much more of an academic interpretation that most people, but that's just kinda how I am.
Of course, with this interpretation, some bands often associated with metal get left out. I don't consider Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Aerosmith, and AC/DC as metal. They're hard rock. However, I do include a lot of the 80s hair metal bands as metal, as I can hear the chugging foundation in many of their songs. (Though I do exclude Guns 'n' Roses as being not metal. I think of them as an 80s Aerosmith, really.) Of course, when you get into the 90s, things get complicated. I do have my own "alternative metal" group that includes groove, nu, and the 'core genres, as I do recognize their metallic, chug-based sound that happens to be fused with various other non-metal elements to one degree or another. However, I've never really considered grunge or post-grunge to be metal (I know there are a few that do).
ANYWAYS, all of this is essentially to set up the argument that, with my definition, I am able to separate the concept of "heavy" from the concept of "metal." Take, for example, a band like DragonForce. Are they metal? Certainly. Are they heavy? Not really. They're high-flying melodic playstyle almost seems to soar and float rather than drag anything down. (Though that is the nature of power metal as a whole.) Then we can flip it around. Are the bands that are heavy, but not necessarily metal? Sure! (I'd consider Tool's latest album Fear Inoculum to be in that category, really.)
Now, I admit my system is not perfect. There are plenty of bands that feel like they're on the cusp between rock and metal. (A number of bands seem to sit on the line between post-grunge and alt metal, like Alter Bridge, Starset, and Breaking Benjamin.) I also should admit that I haven't listened to any of the bands Necrotic Nick brought up in this video, but of the few I have heard of, I do get the impression that their metal-ness has been heavily debated. I know Ghost and Sleep Token are newer bands that don't seem to easily fit into a convenient box. It's just a consequence of how much music is out there now, and how folks choose to blend their influences into something new. (I should also point out that a band's "metal-ness" is obviously not a statement of quality for me, just an exercise in academic delineation.)
If you made it this far, thanks for reading it all. I do tend to be long-winded, mostly as a consequence of making sure I'm explaining things clearly. Everyone is going to have their own lines (both around and within metal), and that's not necessarily a bad thing. In the end, we're all just passionate about the music we love.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, this subject is wide open in a lot of ways which is why I wanted to do it. It's a good launching point for a lot of discussions that circle around this video and subjectivity is such a huge part of it. Hell, the origin of "metal" is still heavily debated as well. Ultimately it's all up to the listener which makes for a lot of cool discussions.
Alice in chains is Metal. Soundgarden is Metal.
It doesn't take a genius to hear it. Grunge is not a true subgenre, and none of the " grunge " bands sound anything alike. The media called any band from Seattle Grunge regardless of what they actually played.. if Sunn O))), Bell Witch, and Nevermore were around during the grunge era.. They too just like AIC would be thrown into grunge category just because they're from Seattle. It's utter nonsense. I'm glad that people are finally starting to see AIC, and Soundgarden as a metal band and a diverse metal band at that.
Necrotic Nick- It's subjective. Whether they're considered metal bands by some or hard rock bands by others doesn't change whether the fans love their music. It'll always be debatable because we're constantly drawing and re-drawing the lines when it comes down to the classification of some bands. Grunge was a blanket term just as I think "Alt Metal" is as well. It's a place to put something people have a hard time describing so we make up a storage unit for it essentially. I highly doubt they would have thrown Nevermore in the grunge category since the grunge movement seemed to look down on metal and I doubt there's any argument about Nevermore's status as a metal band.
@thrallsofmetal if Earth got thrown into the lump just because the dude was close friends with Kurt Cobain .. and the Melvins got thrown in the grunge lump..it's safe to say any metal band would have been included at the time.. even Qüeensryche got thrown in for a moment.. only to ge thrown out again. 😄
I would throw Jesus Lizard on there. I guess it's post hardcore. There's something chaotic and unsettling about their sound.
Behemoth does an excellent cover from killing joke. Total invasion
Necrotic Nick- I have not heard that cover but you bet your ass I'm going to look it up almost right after I type this comment out. That's one of my favorite tracks on the 2003 S/T album.