THE FUTURE? - Airbus’ A350 Stretch
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2022
- Airbus' proposed stretch to the A350 could've been an even better rival to the 777X, potentially even one that could've killed off the type while also giving airlines looking for larger capacity jets the alternative they needed. However, the aircraft was never built. Today on GlobeTrotting, we explore why Airbus never moved firmly forward with a stretch to their already existing A350-1000.
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When airlines aren't lining up to order the A350-1000 with only 150 units in 15 years, an A350-2000 is not a strong business case, especially with the 777-9 also in that small market. It's two big fish in a small pond.
And I think that unlike the A380 and the B747-8 pond, I think that this pond is bigger and able to accommodate both aircraft.
Boeing will obviously still find customer and order to make the B777x successful.
While Airbus can develop it without much focus on the variant profitability, only focusing on the programme profitability and not the variant.
While we all may have had our suspicions, I think it is too early to be certain.
It is not that long ago that people were writing off the A380 as a white elephant, a view I considered to have merit and to be reasonably sound.
However, judging by the numbers of A380s which while technically mothballed, but in all but name considered permanently retired which have since been returned into service, I am no longer certain of what the future holds for those super jumbos, but I now suspect that there will be significantly more of them flying for much longer than most of us expected.
In 15 years did you say?? You can knock 10 years off that. It has been available for 5 YEARS.
@@neilpickup237 It should be noted that the A380 have largely returned to service not by choice, but largely lack thereof. There are two main reasons why the A380 returned to service this summer; pent-up demand post pandemic, and and the superiority of its premium seats. The demand for business and first class will help subsidize the cost of flying the aircraft during high season, but, with the exception of Emirates, the A380 will be playing a supporting role rather than a leading one going forward.
A380 is very comfortable even in economy..
The A220-500 variant will be the one to getting the development green light as it will address the needs of a bigger number of airlines
I agree. Airbus' next new model will almost certainly be the A220-500, followed by either another major upgrade to the A320 (composite wings?) or even a clean sheet narrow body in the A320/737 class, with commonality with the A220.
Agree. Airbus had a hard time with the A380 learning that timing to market is key. They won’t make the same mistake twice.
So we can indeed expect that this concept will re-emerge in 5 to 10 years if proven really viable by then. In the meantime, Airbus will rightfully put most of its effort on refining zero emissions concepts and maturing their technologies, because that’s where the biggest challenge is and the highest expectations.
If Airbus can power the A380 with just 2 Ultrafan engines, or some sort of Ultrafan/Hydrogen hybrid, they may be able to sell some to Emirates, but I doubt they'll get enough orders for the investment to make any financial sense.
Airbus has to solve the paint problem first.
Petition to name it A350-10000, further stretches can be named -100000
Awesome Video it would be interesting to see a stretched version of the A350-1000
Love your new CHANNEL !!!! Thank you!!!
Thank you 😊
Kind of encountering the same issue as the B777-10 concept
The big market coming after 2025 will be replacing the 777-300ER. That's where the A350-1000 could become important, even more so if Rolls-Royces does offer an engine based on a slightly scaled-down UltraFan engine rated at around 100,000 lb. (444.8 kN) engine thrust by 2030 for the A350-1000.
The thing is most airlines are preferring to downsize to the a350/ 787. The a350-900 and 787 will continue to hurt sales from the a350-1000.
The 777-300ER's will mostly be replaced by the a350-900 or newer varients of the 787-10 not the a350-1000. That's why even up to now this varient has poor sales and that's not changing anytime soon.
Even if it is larger, some companies intend to replace their 777-300er by 777-9
In the X variants, the good replacement for the 77W is the 778, but this is far ahead of the A350-900 in terms of orders. The 778 is actually 777-200lr range and 300er capacity with lower fuel consumption and better perdormances.
@@planeup__3049 Qantas clearly stated fuel efficiency is one of the reason for their choice of A350-1000 over 777-8, and the latter has no orders outside Middle East currently. 777-9 is the only 777X variants that matches A350 (or other modern widebodies) efficiency.
@@steinwaldmadchen THE 777-8 P varient was already dead from the start and there is no gaurantee that Boeing will it go for it.
The fact that the the 777-8 wouldn't be available before 2027 was just another reason why the a350 was bound to win this order. No one is shocked here.
since we dont have stats about the 777-8 we could compare the freighters in terms of efficiency
THE 777-8F will have a 25% lower fuel burn than the 777-F while the a350F will only have 20%
Some people are clueless in regards to stretching planes! They think it’s just adding space. Don’t think of weight balance roll out tail strike….
AB should concentrate on stopping the 350 from crumbling.
The - 1000 isnt a super seller, but I'd like to see a stretch
What's the long thing hanging off the top of the tail of the factory paint job one taking off at 0:46. Diagnostic related I'm guessing...?
The Cabin Length could be stretched into 61m...just like A340-600
A350 stretch is much more easier to realise than an A380 Neo for sure.
Yes please! We need a replacement for the beautiful A340-600 you guys got rid of. Long long long and majestic thing.
Having flown on A350, it is a very wide and comfortable airplane. I don't see a down-side stretching it in terms of passenger comfort. And as Airbus dominates basically all other sectors, it would be a good move to make a bigger A350 to compete with the 777x since who knows when that plane comes to market.
Thanks for your comment Tom! I’ve also always enjoyed flying on the A350
Do you really think Airbus could get it certified ahead of the 777X? And if it did would there be enough sales to justify building it. This is not a huge market. Airbus does not need to repeat the A380 experience. There has to be more lucrative markets to go after.
@@danharold3087 I think everybody agrees that competition between Airbus and Boeing is for the best. I'm just stating the truth - A350 is a certified product and making a change to it would not be difficult. Boeing on the other hand - seems to be re-inventing the wheel with every plane - I don't see 777x flying in years.
@@toms5996 A stretch would not require recrtification?
These video's are perfect 👌. DJ's aviation I would like to congratulate you!
Thank you!
Im actually interested on a stretched A350. I would fly it more than the 777x but i love it too.
At a time when some some airlines are putting the A380 back in service, videos like this baffle me...
I think there will always be a market for large aircraft to service the hub and spoke model. Covid has seen a shift towards point to point travel with smaller aircraft. But there are so many airports which are at capacity, meaning there will still be a mixture of point to point travel and hub and spoke travel.
But recent trend is to grow outside of busy airports. IAG for example has grown Iberia as the prime Hispanic Transatlantic carrier, and acquired Aer Lingus for diverting lower end customers.
Even to London itself much of the growth happened in LGW, STN, LTN etc, partly thanks to the boom of LCCs.
Upgauging would somehow happen, but would start from smaller aircraft first, e.g. 320 -> 321NEO, 767 -> 787/A330 before the airlines look at the more risky VLAs. Cabin densification also means the same aircraft can more seats than they used to be.
I can quite understand a logic in waiting until the market stabalises.
Could the future of very large aircraft shift from passenger to freight, where the demand is more consistent and a frequent time of day schedule is far less important for all but express freight?
In the past, we have seen freighter versions (some more successful than others) of passenger aircraft, sometimes quite a few years after the passenger version has entered service.
Could we even see the viability of a new model being based on the freighter version, with a passenger variant, or variants to follow only should there be sufficient demand?
As for the stretch, could it also be better to wait for the new engines currently in the pipeline which will almost inevitably result in an A350neo, rather than producing a stretched version, which would possibly then need to be re-certified far too soon after the variants initial introduction to take advantage of those new engines.
Just look what happened (or didn't happen) to the A380 when those new engines arrived. There was insufficient demand for aircraft with the new engines and the older ones were making the business case for A380 ever more difficult.
This can be a good addition to Airbus portfolio. Great vid As always Dan
Thanks a bunch man
Who is Dan?
@@RLTtizME I am the owner of GlobeTrotting and Dj’s Aviation, my name is Dan :)
@@RLTtizME the owner and cerater of the Dj aviation brand
@@elliotwizerd Man crush?
The A350 stretch or A350-2000 would be another great aircraft that could replace the A380 as it could probably carry near as many people but instead of having quad engines, it would only have two. But for now this isnt the time to build an aircraft that is that far stretched. I mean the 777-9X is struggling for more customers right now as airlines arent really looking for aircraft that big. maybe in the near future once the aircraft is in service and proved its worth, maybe then? if that was the case and outcome was positive, the A350 could then be stretched further to then be able to compete with the new 777. there arent many airliners that could compete with the 777 other than the A350. for now i say, lets see what the future brings?
so what we are doing now if 777x also stretch,everybosy stretching
? why not designed fuel less model?
Great video 👍 i think its a good idea but only when the mesh issues are sorted
Slown down .
No more stretched version.
1:20AM Sun, October 09, 2022
I know this is not popular among flyers, but I feel like Airbus is trying to pack more passengers, instead of stretching it? A 35K that seats 10~20 passengers fewer than 779 but 35t lighter, could be more attractive and less risky than a 350-2000 that matches 779 capacity but just less than 20t lighter. That could also means any further 777X stretches can be matched by 350 stretch as well.
Throughout the years they seems to be heading that direction. From increasing exit limits, making toilets and galley smaller , to new implementation of 17" 10-abreast seating. If they can convince even some airlines to adopt these new configurations, they could undercut 777X's bottom line without a more risky and costly stretch.
If I recall well, it was John Leahy who was rather outspoken about double stretches. To say the least, he was no big fan.
It will need new powerplants since the Trent 97 can't be uprated further without a decrease in efficiency
I think you raise a good point that this may be more of an issue when the 777- 300 aircraft get older. There are not very many examples of a350-1000 or 787-10 aircraft flying.
If it's a simple mod and is cost effective i think it would be another feather in the cap for Airbus the more variants it can offer to existing and new customers i think we could see a u turn soon and a need for higher capacity aircraft again it's all down to economics the more people you can move with the least amount of fuel can only be a good thing when you consider the price of fuel also once the airline industry has bounced back from the effects of covid slots at airports will again become an issue.....
Emirates could do with a350 Stretch as it will see 400 seaters being maximised to its full potential or an new airbus A3xx(Very Interesting channel :))
What aircraft is the ultrafan being built for
Ultrafan and other technologies are mostly developed by Rolls Royce. They have tested them already in a 'test bead' A380 for 1.5 years
@@toms5996 ohh ok thanks for the reply
@@playyboxx2414 possible applications for the Ultrafan.
A350neo , A321 stretch , 787NG , 797 ( NMA) , 777X Ng.
@@mmm0404 that engine is bigger than the ge9x though so will it smaller ones
@@playyboxx2414 that's just a proof of concept, not ment for any particular jet. Ment to test and prove new technology that would be used in the production model
We will have a variet for the a350 , another for the 787 , another for the proposed 797 and so on. The production engine will be smaller depending on the aircraft
Hey I really like this channel. Keep up the great work and I admire your success.
Thank you!
Airbus must be working on something to compete with the 777-9 seems to me like they are waiting until the 777-9 enters service to make their move and off course if there its interest from the airlines for a stretch version and more efficient Rolls Royce Ultra engines are on their way in the next few years.
When the Ultrafan arrives , the 787 too will get a stretch.
The 787-10 might be stretched to compete directly with the current a350-1000. The 787-9 stretch to compete directly with the a350-900 and the 787-8 to compete directly with the a350-900.
Stretching the a350 will only leave more room for the 787
Any stretched A350 will definitely need to use the RR Ultrafan or a newer, more fuel efficient engine. However, I think any move will depend on how many launch orders Airbus will get - the A350-1000 and B777-9 have not been big sellers as they seem to attract only the middle eastern carriers and larger airline groups. I think that two big factors will play here - the price of fuel and also the availability of airport slots.
With the prospect of World War III looming, I think that for more developments in this market segment we might need to wait till around 2025 as we get more definite ideas on what engines are available or possible and whether the current conflicts are resolved satisfactorily.
If it will actually work, then it really works. By the way, my bubblegum is stretchable, too!
#airbusforever #airbusforlife #airbusforthewin
if Airbus could steal over Emirate's B777x order then absolutely do the stretch
Your hate for Boeing is so ugly. Hope you get screwed by your boss
Very unlikely. Emirates have already had a firm order for 115. There is no backing away from that , unless they want to face massive penalties.
It's not easy to walk away from such a large deal.
@@mmm0404 if Boeing keeps delaying the plane, then I think Emirates has exit clause on time limit
@@fatdoi003 yes offcourse they do , but if they cancel the 777X what other alternative is available?
A stretched a350 could take 3 to 5 years .
It could probably need a longer wing and more powerful engines , so the EIS may be pushed further .
the 777-9 is the only aircraft with its capability in development .. Anyways with poor sales with the a350-1000 why would airbus risk building a larger plane?
New Channel Is Amasing
Thanks!
Just make sure it’s safe and the seat width is 18 inches.
Would there be a market for both Boeing and Airbus making 400-500 passenger aircrafts? Boeing is proposing to stretch the 777-9 by four rows of seats to accommodate 450 passengers in a 777-10X variant to compete with or replace the Airbus A380 superjumbo.
a 747-8 with two engines and foldable wingtips for code E gates would be great, but that will mean a new aircraft under certification (as it is basically a brand new type and needing adjustments on the wing design) so i doubt that it will happen
They'll come up with the A350-XCS. Extra Cramped Seats.
Airbus and boeing should build an aircraft with two main wings ! Carrying more fuel for ultra long haul aircraft !
A350-1001
I always thought that a modular plane would exist by now, where airlines could add and remove cabin sections to make operations as efficient as possible. flying a plane the size of an a310 to an a350 all in one.
Now all thrse Airliners are interested in Supersonic speeds they don't care about size no more
BOEING will always lead the pack , and Airbus will always be a follower.
History has proven this.
History is the past....not the future. And Airbus are younger by about 50 years. Idiotic comment.
the a32x NEO forced boeing into making the Max to keep up , Airbus has also stollen the B757 market with the new A321 varients and Boeing has no answer, There has now been more A320 models built than B737 models, So who is leading who.
Just concentrate on boosting the sales of the current a350-1.!!!
133 units in 15 years since launch is pathetic.... sorry I don't count Iran Air, .. neither should they!!!
First of all .. the a350 is a wonderful aircraft. and ir should be expected by all customers .. for me I think the sterch is an amazing idea
I’ve always found flying on the 350 a pleasure
I suppose they need to satisfy Emirates.
An Airbus 350-1000 Stretch would be too long and the design would look just as silly as the Boeing 747-8I does today. A slapped on added piece, wich would look out of place and make it wierd looking.
My prediction: once the 777-9 comes close to, or exceeds 500 orders, Airbus will stretch the A350.
If they're not doing the 10-abreast thing, this is the logical prediction.
But with 10-abreast in the pipeline, I doubt they would still proceed if they managed to convince some airlines onboard.
@@steinwaldmadchen To be honest only a few airlines are interested the 400-450 segment , and most of them have already ordered the 777X . This segment is more of a niche that anything else .
Some other potential customers include Korean Air who have always favoured boeing for their widebodies and maybe China airlines who operate a large fleet of 747F's and want replacements soon.
The a350-1000 10 abreast is likely to find the segment already full.
Boeing also have a chance to stretch the 777-9X to replace emirates a380's but will airbus be interested in a a350-1000 stretch while the current a350-1000 experiences poor sales?
Nope!! It won't happen. The A350 is already a superb airplane, with the two types (-900, and -1000 series) that already have been available, and are appreciated by airlines who ordered them. The paint "issue" however, is a totally different case scenario though. There will never be a super-stretch 2000 series. While with Boeing I wouldn't think, cannot also consider the 777-10X. It would be too much of a joke to stretch these examples any further. One would wander if there are any known airlines that would write in a proposal to these manufacturers, and consider these types, I personally would love to see what they would plan to exactly do with them. How much longer can you stretch an airplane, and how would a known demand even exist?? You would need more powerful engine types, gate space at airports, and pretty much a whole new "clean sheet". The Boeing 777-9X has been delayed, because of poor management, and a bunch of other stressful issues within the company itself. IMOP, It will be delivered, and it is going to be a great airplane itself, though there will be a demand for them as soon as they become labeled into the industry, but not until Boeing figures out their troubles with the type, and hopefully it won't take up too much more time.
A350-2000 it's impossible and perhaps more chances of tailstrike
Sweet
So, just to encapsulate the known facts you stated here:
Airbus has put this stretch idea on the shelf, and currently isn’t putting the aircraft into Development; correct?
Correct my friend! It was something they seemingly were interested in but put on the back burner, hence why it was merely proposed. Instead they’ve been intently interested in further developing the current A350s with cabin adjustments :)
A360-900 with 2 ultrafan, width 6.5m, length 79m, height 21m is better.
Length 79m is not suitable for A350.
Let's be honest. Boeing's reputation as an engineering-led, leading edge commercial aircraft manufacturer is shattered. I'm sure they'll move forward as a defence department subcontractor, raking in millions from juicy government contracts maximising that all important shareholder ROI.
1:09 Why is this plane flying over the cloud and still have not retract its wheels.
It’s for a flying display :)
Prototype flight testing
They would eventually retract gear, after a long checklist and testing, all about the data
For Flight testing . Nothing else
Surprised to hear that this idea was thought of by Airbus as early as 2010. Just 3 years in the infancy of the A380 super jumbo. They were probably beginning to realize the size of that mistake.. in jumbo proportions.
While speaking of Boeing, their mistake with their triple 7x I suppose, is jumping to the gun too early. Too early before the maturity of retirement for their 777 ER’s.
In retrospect, too late for Airbus on the quad super jumbo era.. too early for Boeing on the super sized twin jumbos. I do believe that the 777x delays are deliberate. Their pandemic excuses are entirely fictional.. to the detriment of their biggest customer Emirates.