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These larger ships need to be made far more powerful. It needs to be more like StarTrek ships. You cant get to engineering and work on damaged engines to use any stations if the ships gets blown up in a fight in less than 60seconds.
Totally agree with you. That is why I think they want to slow combat down ...in order to get those bigger ships time so they can start reparing. The fight with bigger ship needs to last at least 5+ min.
Wish the vocal, toxic people on social media and Spectrum would understand this...but all they see is that the way they used to play is gone and they can't handle change so they want to make everyone else feel as miserable as they are
@@ChristoffRevan This is why I avoid those people as best as I can. They agreed to an ever changing system when they bought into the alpha. Of course I too want a High skill ceiling, but thinking an Arrow should stand up to a capital ship is a bit much.
@@ChristoffRevan I've learned to ignore people and just follow the game and enjoy in my way. My Med org has a blast and never have a problem lacking content or fun times.
For master modes, they should remove the SCM speed barrier and allow you to get to boost speed without boosting, meaning that boost will only increase your acceleration, not your maximum speed. This would remove the artificial air resistance in space and make the flight feel more realistic while also increasing the combat speeds to around 400 - 500 m/s depending on the ship which is still less than half of the speeds you could achieve before master modes but fast enough to not be boring and will actually require skill and mastering over time.
No chance. This makes too much sense. I'm thinking they are progressing towards a turn based game where you can choose which sub system you are targeting while not requiring any piloting skills whatsoever.
@@BSPotter as much as I can see avengers point. What if engineering unlocks over clocking your ship to go those speeds you mention they just didn't finish it like the cargo update. As much as Id like to believe they don't know what they're doing , it makes more sense ... I guess you gotta "let em cook" to find out lolll
The Master Modes with it slow down speeds and now reducing the bost speed would be good if SC is a flight simulation of the 1 World War with its double-decker, but now it is getting a bit ridiculous. I mean sometimes they talk about realism, but even today air fights are not done this way anymore.
The dogfighting community would whine even harder if they used modern aircombat lol. Modern fighters just lob missiles at one another from 25 miles. Dogfighting doesn't exist these days.
Dogfighting will not exist in space. Space combat will be more similar to submarine warfare with mostly drones and torpedos. Master Modes is an attempt to enable some sort of dogfighting.
@@sylbil6 they are listening. Just not to the minority. And they’re doing this because this was always what they wanted. They never wanted jousting. Chris Roberts has always wanted low speed air to air combat in space where there is no air.
It feels like CIG is trying to make flight mechanics so that everyone can be good at combat, but that's not really possible. It ends up being unfair to skilled pilots who get shot down by beginners just because the system is made too easy. It takes away the reward for mastering the game and makes combat less meaningful. This approach just doesn’t make sense.
This is literally what they've openly discussed. Making it more accessible to wider market. Truth be told I'm a shit pilot now after master modes, can't get the hang of it and the amount of buttons I now need to set for toggling between modes and sub modes is just painful. I really feel master modes was monumental waste of dev time.
"Why bother giving feedback at all?" Is a good question. CIG clearly isn't listening. Not sure what kind of game CIG is making now, but it doesn't appear to be one I'm interested in. Too bad I can't refund anything at this point.
The problem is that many of us fundamentally disagree with both the reasoning for Master Modes (making PvP accessible and simple), and the method they have chosen to achieve it (limiting speed in certain scenarios but not in others, thereby creating two different handling envelopes). Therefore saying that returning to the previous flight model is the desired outcome is all we can do, because we think it is a much better starting point for flight model changes. Personally I want CIG to develop a great, immersive, deep, and believable flight model first. Then evaluate how that works in PvP, and it will likely be very challenging. Therefore PvP needs to be 100% optional! That way those of us that aren't PvP gods can choose our level of difficulty by choosing what missions we take. As we get better we can learn more about the flight model, take on tougher challenges, and maybe even move out of high-sec space and risk some PvP with a hope of winning. Making PvP accessible, with a low skill ceiling, makes the rest of the PvE experience trivially easy. For those of us that don't have any interest in PvP we are left with a husk of a game that will get boring incredibly quickly.
They’re trying to get rid of jousting. No more high speed combat, because it always evolves into jousting. They’re also trying to satisfy Chris Roberts’ boner for WW2 air to air Hollywood combat in space. He wants Star Wars. That’s okay but more unrealistic than artificial speed limits. The community at large is highly vocal about their dissatisfaction with Master Modes, so it will likely evolve. Hopefully it won’t devolve. Only time will tell.
@@jodomarj9063 Our current aircraft are faster than scm speeds, this seems like a huge step backwards. Who wants to fly a slow spaceship? I absolutely suck at combat but have never blamed the speeds. CIG sold us spaceships while handing us shopping carts.
@@jbirdmaxno they are not, everything they have done including this dynamic server meshing is an attempt to save server costs. No one's done it this way before because of the obvious desync issues and the fact servers get more powerful and cheaper to run year on year.
CIG: "We have a new ship coming out, so we're going to beef up weapon power to improve sales. After it's been out for a year, we'll nerf the living sh** out of it."
@@TheModelOmega say you can’t handle balance without saying it. How would you do it? As far as balance upon release I mean. It’s all a guess at first. Then when they see how bad their guess was, they adjust accordingly. Some have gone up, most have gone down as far as damage output. As far as developing a game, This is the way.
@@mikevachon8752exactly, not only that, there is a big disclaimer when you pledge saying that you are not buying a ship, is not even a purchase, is just founding the development anyone that says that they are “selling ships” and get mad about the rebalance of these ships didn’t read the disclaimer at all
Hey Bored, what I don't like about MM is that your shields deactivate in Nav mode. That makes absolutely no sense to me. I could tolerate everything else if I had to. Ideally, I don't want my shields turning off - it's such an artificial thing for them to do and ruins immersion - no one in their right minds would fly around with their shields down like that. I'd also just want more of a simulator approach to the speed control - MM is too arcadey. I just want full control of my ship's systems and speed. This is why I, personally, hate MM.
Sorry but it’s balancing. For example, if ur in a Hercules running cargo and pirates show up, there’s no risk in turning on Nav mode with shield and just dipping with no risk. If there’s no shields then u run the risk of missiles and some torps but guns aren’t too much of a threat as u can just dip out of range hella quick. And if you had shields then there’s no risk at all. I understand wanting immersion but balancing should always trump that. And for the argument of just make scm faster, they’re probably testing the speeds to see how certain size ships fair when set to a lower or faster speed.
@@Rift_Hawkman Sorry but I totally disagree. You're just repeating what you've been told by CIG. They are just trying to make it into a completely different game than we were originally promised, they have this bee in their bonnet about "WWII dogfighting" etc. but that doesn't really work at spaceship speeds, that's why we have faster weapons like lasers and missiles - this isn't WWII, it's over 900 years in the future. Artificially slowing down ships to arcade game levels and making these two very simplified separate modes smacks of trying to make it console-portable. They need to just stop messing with the fundamentals of the flight model and instead tweak what we had. No one will ever convince me that flying around with shields disabled makes any sense whatsoever. It's almost as dumb as hover mode and everyone hated that too.
@@ApolloCochrane not only that. but flying around without shields in space at those speeds where some floating rocks could fuck up your ship just makes no sense.
@@MrCanadianhero yeah that's another thing that erks me about it. Rocks, debris, bad enough at normal speeds but at quantum? The whole thing is stupid and makes no sense.
Actually it makes perfect sense. Thats why all the sci-fi we have goes "Shields Up" when a conflict is afoot. Because yes, if you turn shields on and full speed like before, there was no point in chasing a Hercules. It was a foregone conclusion that it was getting away.
We've needed point defense systems for capital ships for a long time, although i believe they should all be balistics so they can run out of ammo, or they have down time while they're being reloaded
I just want changes that make multicrew more viable. It should almost always be the correct choice to put two people on one ship rather than in two ships.
The combat speed to MM doesn’t bother me as much but it definitely shouldn’t be any slower. The issue for the is the nonsensical switch between SCM and Nav. Why does the ship suddenly get faster? Why can you have shields up? The hard transition is immersion breaking and frustrating when you just want to fly around to dock under fire. I played Elite Dangerous for many years. It’s flight mode has its own issues but one thing they are able to do is have decent travel speeds and slower close up combat without switching modes. Some ideas 1) make the optimal maneuvering speed be 25-50% of top speed and make the penalty to turn rate significant when not in this sweet spot. No change of modes. Pilots will need to reduce their own speed if they want to maneuver in a turn right. 2) boost should not increase turn speed. It should reduce turn speed. Boost should be applied to the main engines only. This makes throttle control and when you use boost to close an angle much more skill based. You keep decent boost speeds but at the cost of maneuverability the turn combat when in close is going to be slower. 3)Nav mode speeds should all just be from power management. Instead of getting rid of the older power management system they should lean into it. If you want “travel” speeds then you put max power to engines which reduces weapon and shield strength to a minimum (for ballistic reducing power greatly reduces rate of fire and increases heat do to weapon cooling having low power). This is much more immersive and makes sense instead of this magic mode where you have speed but weapons and shield don’t work.
I appreciate that you didn't put rumors in the headline this time. Much appreciated. The Polaris is going to be quite a ship, even if these rumors turn out to be just rumors.
Curious if anyone has actual numbers but I've heard much more negative feedback than positive about the master modes and slower speeds. If that is the case does it mean CIG is just not taking players feedback into consideration anymore?
I'm really hoping the PDCs on the Polaris work properly. With any luck, we might start seeing more of them on big ships soon. I'm also curious to see if they'll attack hostile ships as well as missiles, though if they do they won't exactly be that strong.
apparently they will! the idris also has them too, bigger guns though. I'd assume if they are going on the polaris, they are going on all the capital ships
@@murcccthey should go on any multicrew military ship imo, otherwise gunboats like the hammerhead or perseus or even the connie are much more vulnerable to missiles than the larger ships are.
Slowing down everything like Ship speed, boost, weapons and then just trim down the ranges a bit and we are going towards the old Wing Commander combat experience. MM might be here to stay seeing they are on the brink of releasing SQ42, but it is not a great flight model. Now they could have gotten away with having another or different tuned flight model for SQ42 experience if they had exclusive ships, but seeing that the missions in SQ42 are scripted and therefor changing the flightmodel would mean a possible change in missions setup and tuning it again. So CIG has waited too long to experiment and ask the community about the flight model and changes a decade of development and still they have not release nor have a clear good basis for the flight model in space not even talking about all the kinds of different planet gravity's and atmospheres. The only thing I worry about is the flight model everthing else just takes them time to figure out but the flight model doesn't have that time they need it asap.
This - Wing Commander was a Single Player game. Freelancer was a Single Player game - they are instanced games, too. With designer scenic regions rather than a gigantic PU. Chris Roberts needs pushback on this, he is outright wrong in this vision.
To be fair, the “doom & gloom” from many is as it appears that CIG doesn’t give two sh$ts about their options. With many feeling the speeds are to slow, and CIG’s answer being to slow it down more.😋😭 Then when stating their option about the overall direction, being told by others. “But it looks cool”…..😶😧😂 One can see why they are a bit perturbed, at least I can.😋🇺🇦🇭🇹🇵🇸
I’m really hoping that master modes gets a bit of a taller skill ceiling. The learning curve is pretty decent but the ceiling is just a bit too low right now….
It will don’t worry, with engineering specially, having to coordinate with multiple people at the same time during action moments and also over clocking to achieve extreme speed and combat power.
They haven't listened on the 400i changes! On the official thread with the up coming ship changes, hundreds of comments mention the 400i change being bad and wrong. They don't seem to care about our opinions right now :(
There's a certain point where things are slow and close it becomes ridiculous. Fighting the npcs for blockade runner was fun, slower than that I might have to agree with the boomers around master modes being a flop and waste of dev time.
Seriously dude Star citizen hadn't had a great flight model since they put this thing out there as a pre-alpha 13 years ago. I suspect it will never be a good flight model, if it ever gets released.
The old flight model was excellent. We needed ship armour and weapons and component balance. They also needed physics because if you had mass then tuning acceleration and ship speeds becomes very simple code wise and you can iterate on it daily. maybe snares kinda like eve has for locking down woulda been cool.
The Polaris sounds even cooler if these datamines are accurate. I really like the idea of automatic defense turrets. This ship will be a game changer in multiplayer gaming.
2x speed boost was too much? Wtf is wrong with these people, do they play the damn game at all? You gotta lay on the boost to feel like you're moving at all. This is total bullshit, maybe cig should fire the idiots (staring angrily at you yogi) and rehire people that know how to work on a game.
There's no point in talking reasonably to CIG anymore, they have become completely tonedeaf to the community and do as they wish and to hell with their funders
I don't know why people are saying the polaris is more in align with what CIG has been saying the size 6 is good but thats it i doubt 1 turret changes a ship to be able to not just be a torp boat cause as soon as that turret is priority targeted the polaris is basically gonna get bullied by subcaps, to me this new loadout doesnt say its no longer just a torp boat to me its a torp boat with okay fighter defense
Who said its no longer a torpedo boat? Of course it is. It fires torpedos the size of an aurora, and carries a lot of them. It's just got better guns now than it had before, and better anti missile defence.
@@roadsweeper1 never said it was no longer a torp boat I said they said that they wanted it to no longer be “just” a torp boat, here’s their own words "Another thing we are looking at doing in the future is doing some more upgunning.... so that it's not just a torpedo boat it can sort of hold its own against other capital ships" but in its current form i don’t think a dual size 6 qualifies the Polaris as what they were saying, it’s a torp boat with okay fighter defense
I think the acceleration (and deceleration) change was what they should have done to begin with, but with higher top speeds. It's the reason people just evaded combat in the 1st place. Trichording only amplified overwhelming acceleration advantages.
It is good to hear about the new Polaris guns, but to say that it will be the best org ship??? I thing the KRAKEN will be the best org ship in the game.
Not necessarily, although it would be a great mothership, ideally a medium to large org could have both a Polaris and a Kraken fully staffed at all times for maximum effectiveness
Haven't played the game yet. You've made a good point in that instead of the community just reacting to features, it's more helpful for everyone to actually voice possible solutions for CIG to look at and implement whatever's possible.
I'm really looking forward to 24.2 and 4.0 both. I've played off and on for a few years, and it's amazing to see where the game is today compared to where it came from. Definitely wanna see the larger ships get a buff and make good use of the engineering update.
I think reviewing the accelerations is a good thing. I've always thought that thrusters generated a lot of acceleration when you compare them to main engines.
I feel like the best thing that can happen to your favourite ship is…. Nothing. It seems they just keep getting better, having your fav come out later on will just ensure it’s that much better
Love the Star Wars ad. Also like the aspect of MM making the choice of dropping shields to run or keeping them up to commit to the fight. Mainly run cargo so atm default is to just have them off and if theres enemies raise the shields. Feels more fun that way, rather than shields all the time all the speeds
Looking forward to the Polaris, and happy they are tweaking master modes. As a very average pilot I feel like MM has removed any options I have to avoid fire against multiple opponents (i.e any PvE encounter), I don't think slower will help but I'm just happy they are still working on it rather than leaving it in its current state.
I agree with you on what I want ship combat to be in the end. I am not going to be the best pilot but I do want opportunities were I get to have fun in combat and don't just got destroyed every time I try it out.
I was in love with my Arrow before the Master Mode updates arrived. Given CIG's direction, I feel like I should just upgrade my fighter to something more balanced.
When you said that master modes are here to stay, you might as well have just performed undesirable acts to my special masculine area. With knitting implements.
Polaris changes good I have a CCU to it if I decide I really want it, hope we do get some extra changes to big ships to make them more of a threat and more capable against capital ships. I do enjoy that they are exploring the MM metrics as we should test it out and flex the capacities of ships and systems to see what fits best, whether as a whole or per unique ship type.
It might be interesting if they put up regular polls on features or changes a while after they have been released to gauge the success of the features and changes. Have people play it for a while and then give feedback. Make the polls visible to everyone so it is clear what the majority opinion is. If a choice is made not to follow the majority opinion, they should provide clear motivation. You can data-mine feedback given online, but not everyone will do that. A poll can be quick, simple and visible.
The polls would need to be in the menu in-game, or else it would not really be representative of normal players. The thing about polls being outside the game on the website is that only the most emotional people will actually engage with it as the vast majority of players don't even go on Spectrum, and emotional people have extreme opinions...whether one way or another...and thus not really be representative of the playerbase. That's why CIG don't do polls, and they likely will never do them
They will also have to update the economy for the bigger ships because you will only be able to run them once or twice before you can't afford to rearm and repair.
No one wants to test a 12yr old game where the developers dont listen but ask for more money. They seem like a contractor, they want all the money now without any intention of finishing the job... ive been a supporter for 7 years. Very exhausting!
The Polaris is cool, though Im more of a Perseus kinda guy. Hopefully the MM changes are to try it before ramping up the speed since the player backlash would be worse if they wanted to try lower speeds after speeding up again. Regardless of how they feel about MM Ive never seen anyone say they wanted ships to be even slower.
MM is worse in any point in comparison to the last fly model. There is nothing to explain, playing is enough for seeing that. You're flying more like a plane. You're slow as f whiteout any reason or sense. It's boring to use And now they're moving some useful HUD information in stupide place ... They didn't play an hour there game for thinking that was a good idea!!!
Can't wait to hop in my Polaris. The way it's shaping up, it might take the place of my Carrack. Although I would like to see a long distance Self-Sufficient ship from crusader, I think that could be really sweet.
Completely different ship purposes. Polaris running costs are likely going to be quite high, to stop people solo crewing it, and those that do, will be running it at a huge disadvantage. Youd be better off staying in the carrack.
Idris is a fleet flagship and significantly bigger than the polaris. Of course it'll have size one beds. The Polaris doesn't need a size one, size 2 is perfectly sufficient. Otherwise it'll make the medical ships like the Galaxy and the Endevour irrelevant. Mobile size 1 beds will be rare and far between and limited to only the largest of the capitals. The Polaris is a corvette. In RL corvette have very limited medbays. For full surgical procedures, you ship the patient to a carrier or a mainland hospital. Same idea here.
@@roadsweeper1 im not ok with it cuz the polaris is made to do fast assaults in solo so if he need to rely on an other ship, he become useless... tier 1 comes rly fats with fps combats.. And idris is not a flagship, its a gunship, the javelin is a flag ship. And dont forget that in the lore the polaris is here as a "new" model/rework of the idris and should be at least as good and have a better level of "high tech" features
@@scrap_ereventually all medical beds on ships won't respawn people anyway lmao...that's literally the end goal, respawn on ships right now is only because of the alpha to make death from bugs and jank not as annoying.
@@ChristoffRevan i didnt talk abt respawn, but its a warship and in fps combat, tier 1 injuries happens rly often so.... well loosing 4 of 6 crew members cuz of t1 injuries after a raid....
I have a Polaris pledged. Hoping I can find people to crew it, lol. Also, if you get a chance, please ask "Why are weapons that only the pilot can aim on the Corsair now under the control of the co-pilot?" It really doesn't make sense. Maybe if they put them in a chin turret, then I could see it, but not as-is.
Cig needs to realize that not everyone can be good at combat. To be good one must try hard, practice and yet it is not guaranteed he will be good. Some are good and some are not and will suffer. This is the way. Bring 3.22 flight model back. That was true space sim combat flight system. Master modes are just a huge mistake that needs to be erased yesterday
Scm definitely needs a lot of work, but I can see it being amazing with time. TTK was always supposed to be much longer than we have now to give THE AVERAGE player a chance to survive engagement and potentially escape. 15 seconds of hell is not enough for that average person to get their head in the game...
Speeds slowing down doesn't make sense really, the better option should be increase range of weaponry. These are space ships the actual speed to break out of atmosphere of planets needs to be somewhat faster.
Dude, I hope that for the Perseus they ad like 2 more remote turrets, cuz its gonna be great for the cannons if you can hit other ships. But fighters will be a problem. I can only assume that they will though, with all of these changes.
Combat movement is already too slow and now they want to slow things down even more? I honestly think that master modes is one of the most unrealistic parts of the game.
My hope is that Yogi has a plan, I know he can make a good flight model, I'm just worried about restrictions coming from up top. I get the idea that we want the skill to be targeting different components, but that sucks imo. I dont want to play an aim trainer, I want to fly a spaceship.
The Polaris will be fun in big space battle and i do hope CIG will give us a reason to take it out also when there are no big events going on. thinking about both pve and pvp bounty hunter missions
??? Unless they upgrade the bounties to include Idris's.... the cost of those size 10 torpedoes will prohibit people from using it as a simple mission runner. It's a small flagship and designed for anti capital useage. By the time you've paid the 10+ crew their share of the mission payout, and covered the ammunition and fuel costs, I doubt mission running will be profitable, unless they really increase the payouts.
As I’m not a PVPer, the boost speed controversy means nothing to me. The question I would ask CIG is “Why are we having to contend with the same bugs in update after update when the Devs say the bugs are fixed in every update?”
They really push those subscriber flairs to just random items. Probably the best one was June, those hazard suits. And maybe those ship paints would be nice because that is what is the most visible way to inform "hey, I am a subbie"
Star Citizen Alpha 3.24.2 - Polaris BIG Updates - CIG On Flight Model Changes
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LATEST STAR CITIZEN PATCH ALPHA 3.24.2 Evocati
how is this posted 50 mins ago, but the video is live 1 min ago... you have some explaining mister.
These larger ships need to be made far more powerful. It needs to be more like StarTrek ships. You cant get to engineering and work on damaged engines to use any stations if the ships gets blown up in a fight in less than 60seconds.
Totally agree with you. That is why I think they want to slow combat down ...in order to get those bigger ships time so they can start reparing. The fight with bigger ship needs to last at least 5+ min.
Wish the vocal, toxic people on social media and Spectrum would understand this...but all they see is that the way they used to play is gone and they can't handle change so they want to make everyone else feel as miserable as they are
@@ChristoffRevan This is why I avoid those people as best as I can. They agreed to an ever changing system when they bought into the alpha. Of course I too want a High skill ceiling, but thinking an Arrow should stand up to a capital ship is a bit much.
@@ChristoffRevan I've learned to ignore people and just follow the game and enjoy in my way. My Med org has a blast and never have a problem lacking content or fun times.
Not more more powerful but able to pivot better thats all they need
For master modes, they should remove the SCM speed barrier and allow you to get to boost speed without boosting, meaning that boost will only increase your acceleration, not your maximum speed. This would remove the artificial air resistance in space and make the flight feel more realistic while also increasing the combat speeds to around 400 - 500 m/s depending on the ship which is still less than half of the speeds you could achieve before master modes but fast enough to not be boring and will actually require skill and mastering over time.
Literally everything avenger_one has been saying this whole time, completely agree,
No chance. This makes too much sense. I'm thinking they are progressing towards a turn based game where you can choose which sub system you are targeting while not requiring any piloting skills whatsoever.
@@BSPotter as much as I can see avengers point. What if engineering unlocks over clocking your ship to go those speeds you mention they just didn't finish it like the cargo update. As much as Id like to believe they don't know what they're doing , it makes more sense ... I guess you gotta "let em cook" to find out lolll
Shh! Can't say this sort of thing! It makes too much sense!
What would engineering gameplay be for a single seat fighter?
The Master Modes with it slow down speeds and now reducing the bost speed would be good if SC is a flight simulation of the 1 World War with its double-decker, but now it is getting a bit ridiculous. I mean sometimes they talk about realism, but even today air fights are not done this way anymore.
The dogfighting community would whine even harder if they used modern aircombat lol.
Modern fighters just lob missiles at one another from 25 miles. Dogfighting doesn't exist these days.
Dogfighting will not exist in space. Space combat will be more similar to submarine warfare with mostly drones and torpedos. Master Modes is an attempt to enable some sort of dogfighting.
Fuckin weird they slowed it down even further tho
Right, because they went against feedback by reducing boost but you say they will listen to feedback...
Have to go with the opinion of the majority, they wouldn't purposely make a game people don't enjoy, just doesn't make sense
@@explorer47422 So you are saying the majority wants reduced speeds ?
Listening and acting according to it are two very different things ;)
@@sylbil6 they are listening. Just not to the minority.
And they’re doing this because this was always what they wanted.
They never wanted jousting.
Chris Roberts has always wanted low speed air to air combat in space where there is no air.
@@jbirdmaxWrong, the original statement by Chris Roberts on Star Citizen stated he wanted a more realistic physics-based model. Go check for yourself
It feels like CIG is trying to make flight mechanics so that everyone can be good at combat, but that's not really possible. It ends up being unfair to skilled pilots who get shot down by beginners just because the system is made too easy. It takes away the reward for mastering the game and makes combat less meaningful. This approach just doesn’t make sense.
I agree, it feels like they are trying to tailor the combat flight model to min/maxers instead of people with actual skill.
Casuals ruin everythin
@@bigfoot9049 Totally agree, LGBTQ losers who couldn't win, controlling the skill curve, makes me want to vomit.
This is literally what they've openly discussed. Making it more accessible to wider market. Truth be told I'm a shit pilot now after master modes, can't get the hang of it and the amount of buttons I now need to set for toggling between modes and sub modes is just painful. I really feel master modes was monumental waste of dev time.
This is exactly the way CIG has always wanted it. No more jousting and air to air combat in space. Where there is no air.
"Why bother giving feedback at all?" Is a good question. CIG clearly isn't listening.
Not sure what kind of game CIG is making now, but it doesn't appear to be one I'm interested in. Too bad I can't refund anything at this point.
The problem is that many of us fundamentally disagree with both the reasoning for Master Modes (making PvP accessible and simple), and the method they have chosen to achieve it (limiting speed in certain scenarios but not in others, thereby creating two different handling envelopes). Therefore saying that returning to the previous flight model is the desired outcome is all we can do, because we think it is a much better starting point for flight model changes.
Personally I want CIG to develop a great, immersive, deep, and believable flight model first. Then evaluate how that works in PvP, and it will likely be very challenging. Therefore PvP needs to be 100% optional! That way those of us that aren't PvP gods can choose our level of difficulty by choosing what missions we take. As we get better we can learn more about the flight model, take on tougher challenges, and maybe even move out of high-sec space and risk some PvP with a hope of winning.
Making PvP accessible, with a low skill ceiling, makes the rest of the PvE experience trivially easy. For those of us that don't have any interest in PvP we are left with a husk of a game that will get boring incredibly quickly.
When I think Star Ship I think high speeds, not two mobility chairs racing each other.
They’re trying to get rid of jousting.
No more high speed combat, because it always evolves into jousting.
They’re also trying to satisfy Chris Roberts’ boner for WW2 air to air Hollywood combat in space.
He wants Star Wars.
That’s okay but more unrealistic than artificial speed limits.
The community at large is highly vocal about their dissatisfaction with Master Modes, so it will likely evolve. Hopefully it won’t devolve.
Only time will tell.
@@jodomarj9063 Our current aircraft are faster than scm speeds, this seems like a huge step backwards. Who wants to fly a slow spaceship? I absolutely suck at combat but have never blamed the speeds. CIG sold us spaceships while handing us shopping carts.
According to them they already did. It’s called master modes 😂
@@jbirdmaxno they are not, everything they have done including this dynamic server meshing is an attempt to save server costs. No one's done it this way before because of the obvious desync issues and the fact servers get more powerful and cheaper to run year on year.
CIG: "We have a new ship coming out, so we're going to beef up weapon power to improve sales. After it's been out for a year, we'll nerf the living sh** out of it."
Exactly this. People DO buy for specs. CIG just likes to use "it's alpha" to hand wave away any shady practices on their part.
Just buy it in game. You aren't supposed to pay cash for each ship so nothing shaddy about it.
@@TheModelOmega say you can’t handle balance without saying it.
How would you do it?
As far as balance upon release I mean.
It’s all a guess at first.
Then when they see how bad their guess was, they adjust accordingly. Some have gone up, most have gone down as far as damage output.
As far as developing a game,
This is the way.
Lol yep.
@@mikevachon8752exactly, not only that, there is a big disclaimer when you pledge saying that you are not buying a ship, is not even a purchase, is just founding the development
anyone that says that they are “selling ships” and get mad about the rebalance of these ships didn’t read the disclaimer at all
Hey Bored, what I don't like about MM is that your shields deactivate in Nav mode. That makes absolutely no sense to me. I could tolerate everything else if I had to. Ideally, I don't want my shields turning off - it's such an artificial thing for them to do and ruins immersion - no one in their right minds would fly around with their shields down like that. I'd also just want more of a simulator approach to the speed control - MM is too arcadey. I just want full control of my ship's systems and speed. This is why I, personally, hate MM.
Sorry but it’s balancing. For example, if ur in a Hercules running cargo and pirates show up, there’s no risk in turning on Nav mode with shield and just dipping with no risk. If there’s no shields then u run the risk of missiles and some torps but guns aren’t too much of a threat as u can just dip out of range hella quick. And if you had shields then there’s no risk at all. I understand wanting immersion but balancing should always trump that. And for the argument of just make scm faster, they’re probably testing the speeds to see how certain size ships fair when set to a lower or faster speed.
@@Rift_Hawkman Sorry but I totally disagree. You're just repeating what you've been told by CIG. They are just trying to make it into a completely different game than we were originally promised, they have this bee in their bonnet about "WWII dogfighting" etc. but that doesn't really work at spaceship speeds, that's why we have faster weapons like lasers and missiles - this isn't WWII, it's over 900 years in the future. Artificially slowing down ships to arcade game levels and making these two very simplified separate modes smacks of trying to make it console-portable. They need to just stop messing with the fundamentals of the flight model and instead tweak what we had. No one will ever convince me that flying around with shields disabled makes any sense whatsoever. It's almost as dumb as hover mode and everyone hated that too.
@@ApolloCochrane not only that. but flying around without shields in space at those speeds where some floating rocks could fuck up your ship just makes no sense.
@@MrCanadianhero yeah that's another thing that erks me about it. Rocks, debris, bad enough at normal speeds but at quantum? The whole thing is stupid and makes no sense.
Actually it makes perfect sense. Thats why all the sci-fi we have goes "Shields Up" when a conflict is afoot. Because yes, if you turn shields on and full speed like before, there was no point in chasing a Hercules. It was a foregone conclusion that it was getting away.
We've needed point defense systems for capital ships for a long time, although i believe they should all be balistics so they can run out of ammo, or they have down time while they're being reloaded
No capital ships in game. Only sub caps
With the polaris upgunning I hope the perseus gets a little boost. It is a GUNship after all ❤
CIG says, "Let's make the guns bigger so we can sell more of them.Then we'll nerf it into the ground
I just want changes that make multicrew more viable. It should almost always be the correct choice to put two people on one ship rather than in two ships.
can we get Faster Mode back?
The combat speed to MM doesn’t bother me as much but it definitely shouldn’t be any slower. The issue for the is the nonsensical switch between SCM and Nav. Why does the ship suddenly get faster? Why can you have shields up? The hard transition is immersion breaking and frustrating when you just want to fly around to dock under fire. I played Elite Dangerous for many years. It’s flight mode has its own issues but one thing they are able to do is have decent travel speeds and slower close up combat without switching modes. Some ideas 1) make the optimal maneuvering speed be 25-50% of top speed and make the penalty to turn rate significant when not in this sweet spot. No change of modes. Pilots will need to reduce their own speed if they want to maneuver in a turn right. 2) boost should not increase turn speed. It should reduce turn speed. Boost should be applied to the main engines only. This makes throttle control and when you use boost to close an angle much more skill based. You keep decent boost speeds but at the cost of maneuverability the turn combat when in close is going to be slower. 3)Nav mode speeds should all just be from power management. Instead of getting rid of the older power management system they should lean into it. If you want “travel” speeds then you put max power to engines which reduces weapon and shield strength to a minimum (for ballistic reducing power greatly reduces rate of fire and increases heat do to weapon cooling having low power). This is much more immersive and makes sense instead of this magic mode where you have speed but weapons and shield don’t work.
Polaris in game soon 🙏🏼
I appreciate that you didn't put rumors in the headline this time. Much appreciated. The Polaris is going to be quite a ship, even if these rumors turn out to be just rumors.
I agree about Master Modes they need our feedback or they will just think the flight model is fine when it is not
Curious if anyone has actual numbers but I've heard much more negative feedback than positive about the master modes and slower speeds. If that is the case does it mean CIG is just not taking players feedback into consideration anymore?
Would be cool to see what happens when the boys have the big ship in their hands
Looking forward to some Polaris battles!
@@BoredGamerUK Remember how i started watching you when they announced the Prowler :D
I personally don't mind them slowing down the ships for combat, but I think nav mode should be a little faster in atmosphere.
I'm really hoping the PDCs on the Polaris work properly. With any luck, we might start seeing more of them on big ships soon. I'm also curious to see if they'll attack hostile ships as well as missiles, though if they do they won't exactly be that strong.
apparently they will! the idris also has them too, bigger guns though. I'd assume if they are going on the polaris, they are going on all the capital ships
@@murcccthey should go on any multicrew military ship imo, otherwise gunboats like the hammerhead or perseus or even the connie are much more vulnerable to missiles than the larger ships are.
Death by 1000 papercuts...
Slowing down everything like Ship speed, boost, weapons and then just trim down the ranges a bit and we are going towards the old Wing Commander combat experience.
MM might be here to stay seeing they are on the brink of releasing SQ42, but it is not a great flight model.
Now they could have gotten away with having another or different tuned flight model for SQ42 experience if they had exclusive ships, but seeing that the missions in SQ42 are scripted and therefor changing the flightmodel would mean a possible change in missions setup and tuning it again.
So CIG has waited too long to experiment and ask the community about the flight model and changes a decade of development and still they have not release nor have a clear good basis for the flight model in space not even talking about all the kinds of different planet gravity's and atmospheres.
The only thing I worry about is the flight model everthing else just takes them time to figure out but the flight model doesn't have that time they need it asap.
This - Wing Commander was a Single Player game. Freelancer was a Single Player game - they are instanced games, too. With designer scenic regions rather than a gigantic PU. Chris Roberts needs pushback on this, he is outright wrong in this vision.
Reducing cannons AGAIN?!
Im two volleying medium ships in a corsair 5-6 for heavy fighters yea bruh they are
To be fair, the “doom & gloom” from many is as it appears that CIG doesn’t give two sh$ts about their options. With many feeling the speeds are to slow, and CIG’s answer being to slow it down more.😋😭 Then when stating their option about the overall direction, being told by others. “But it looks cool”…..😶😧😂 One can see why they are a bit perturbed, at least I can.😋🇺🇦🇭🇹🇵🇸
One doesn't care about those sh$ts, if they won't join our crew, they'll have to find another game, NMS?
They got feedback on the flight model.
It wasn't what they wanted to hear
No speed limits in space! I wouldn't say I hate MM but every decision they make feels worse than the last instead of any sort of improvement.
I’m really hoping that master modes gets a bit of a taller skill ceiling. The learning curve is pretty decent but the ceiling is just a bit too low right now….
It will don’t worry, with engineering specially, having to coordinate with multiple people at the same time during action moments and also over clocking to achieve extreme speed and combat power.
That not being able to run away thing is showing peoples true skill😂😂
They haven't listened on the 400i changes!
On the official thread with the up coming ship changes, hundreds of comments mention the 400i change being bad and wrong.
They don't seem to care about our opinions right now :(
There's a certain point where things are slow and close it becomes ridiculous. Fighting the npcs for blockade runner was fun, slower than that I might have to agree with the boomers around master modes being a flop and waste of dev time.
Seriously dude Star citizen hadn't had a great flight model since they put this thing out there as a pre-alpha 13 years ago. I suspect it will never be a good flight model, if it ever gets released.
Yes, the problem is, it's evolving backwards.
The old fly model was extremely bad that’s and couldn’t be balanced, the new fly model instead while started low it can be balanced and tune
The old flight model was excellent. We needed ship armour and weapons and component balance. They also needed physics because if you had mass then tuning acceleration and ship speeds becomes very simple code wise and you can iterate on it daily. maybe snares kinda like eve has for locking down woulda been cool.
If you lower boost speed you can use it to do flight moves
Boost acceleration
The Polaris sounds even cooler if these datamines are accurate. I really like the idea of automatic defense turrets. This ship will be a game changer in multiplayer gaming.
2x speed boost was too much? Wtf is wrong with these people, do they play the damn game at all? You gotta lay on the boost to feel like you're moving at all. This is total bullshit, maybe cig should fire the idiots (staring angrily at you yogi) and rehire people that know how to work on a game.
There's no point in talking reasonably to CIG anymore, they have become completely tonedeaf to the community and do as they wish and to hell with their funders
I’m glad they are beginning to check off AV1’s concerns. Slower acceleration and faster projectiles might make room for higher speeds.
I don't know why people are saying the polaris is more in align with what CIG has been saying the size 6 is good but thats it i doubt 1 turret changes a ship to be able to not just be a torp boat cause as soon as that turret is priority targeted the polaris is basically gonna get bullied by subcaps, to me this new loadout doesnt say its no longer just a torp boat to me its a torp boat with okay fighter defense
Who said its no longer a torpedo boat? Of course it is. It fires torpedos the size of an aurora, and carries a lot of them. It's just got better guns now than it had before, and better anti missile defence.
@@roadsweeper1 never said it was no longer a torp boat I said they said that they wanted it to no longer be “just” a torp boat, here’s their own words "Another thing we are looking at doing in the future is doing some more upgunning.... so that it's not just a torpedo boat it can sort of hold its own against other capital ships" but in its current form i don’t think a dual size 6 qualifies the Polaris as what they were saying, it’s a torp boat with okay fighter defense
I think the acceleration (and deceleration) change was what they should have done to begin with, but with higher top speeds. It's the reason people just evaded combat in the 1st place. Trichording only amplified overwhelming acceleration advantages.
It is good to hear about the new Polaris guns, but to say that it will be the best org ship??? I thing the KRAKEN will be the best org ship in the game.
Not necessarily, although it would be a great mothership, ideally a medium to large org could have both a Polaris and a Kraken fully staffed at all times for maximum effectiveness
Lol ya like we're ever gonna see that.
I know 4.0 is the current focus, but it would be nice if they’d try to nail down more of their ideal state for master modes at the same time.
Haven't played the game yet. You've made a good point in that instead of the community just reacting to features, it's more helpful for everyone to actually voice possible solutions for CIG to look at and implement whatever's possible.
I'm glad they are doing a 4.0 lite version to hopefully avoid some of the issues from past releases.
I'm really looking forward to 24.2 and 4.0 both. I've played off and on for a few years, and it's amazing to see where the game is today compared to where it came from. Definitely wanna see the larger ships get a buff and make good use of the engineering update.
I'm so intrigued to see how the weapon and shield rebalances will impact the entire array of ships in the coming years...
love the buffs the Polaris is getting
I think reviewing the accelerations is a good thing. I've always thought that thrusters generated a lot of acceleration when you compare them to main engines.
had an artwork of the polaris as a desktop background for years now... really like the design of this ship
Lol i have the starfarer as background also for years.
I have the Original Concept of the StarRunner. And i still get disappointed with the current one we have now
I feel like the best thing that can happen to your favourite ship is…. Nothing. It seems they just keep getting better, having your fav come out later on will just ensure it’s that much better
Love the Star Wars ad. Also like the aspect of MM making the choice of dropping shields to run or keeping them up to commit to the fight. Mainly run cargo so atm default is to just have them off and if theres enemies raise the shields. Feels more fun that way, rather than shields all the time all the speeds
So you can play star wars sqadrons
I liked the original Halloween event where you had to find the Bennyhenge to unlock the Vara mask.
It's gonna be really sick to crew a Polaris i think, really glad some org mates have one.
Looking forward to the Polaris, and happy they are tweaking master modes. As a very average pilot I feel like MM has removed any options I have to avoid fire against multiple opponents (i.e any PvE encounter), I don't think slower will help but I'm just happy they are still working on it rather than leaving it in its current state.
I agree with you on what I want ship combat to be in the end. I am not going to be the best pilot but I do want opportunities were I get to have fun in combat and don't just got destroyed every time I try it out.
I was in love with my Arrow before the Master Mode updates arrived. Given CIG's direction, I feel like I should just upgrade my fighter to something more balanced.
When you said that master modes are here to stay, you might as well have just performed undesirable acts to my special masculine area. With knitting implements.
Being ignorant and lazy must be a hinderance to you, do you have a masculine area, you seem kinda delicate?
It will be nice to see the Polaris fly around the Verse from time to time.
I've almost bought a Polaris a few times, but I'm not a combat focused player, so cannot justify the cost even with a few legacy $0 CCUs
The Polaris is 100% going to be a 1500$ ship when released. Anyone who gets it now is going to have one hell of a ship.
Polaris changes good I have a CCU to it if I decide I really want it, hope we do get some extra changes to big ships to make them more of a threat and more capable against capital ships. I do enjoy that they are exploring the MM metrics as we should test it out and flex the capacities of ships and systems to see what fits best, whether as a whole or per unique ship type.
Happy about the potential Poli changes. It should be hard for fighters to quickly kill capships, but not impossible. We'll see how it shakes out. XD
All I care about for the FM is *is it fun and exciting?*. But right now it's none of those. Post 4.0 changes will hopefully fix that.
I honestly don't mind the master modes, but I do think that the way that the scanning modes are implemented could be a little smoother
I love the Nord VPN ad for this month.
It might be interesting if they put up regular polls on features or changes a while after they have been released to gauge the success of the features and changes. Have people play it for a while and then give feedback. Make the polls visible to everyone so it is clear what the majority opinion is. If a choice is made not to follow the majority opinion, they should provide clear motivation. You can data-mine feedback given online, but not everyone will do that. A poll can be quick, simple and visible.
The polls would need to be in the menu in-game, or else it would not really be representative of normal players. The thing about polls being outside the game on the website is that only the most emotional people will actually engage with it as the vast majority of players don't even go on Spectrum, and emotional people have extreme opinions...whether one way or another...and thus not really be representative of the playerbase. That's why CIG don't do polls, and they likely will never do them
I'm excited to see the Polaris in game. Will be intense seeing all those battles
They will also have to update the economy for the bigger ships because you will only be able to run them once or twice before you can't afford to rearm and repair.
Im so excited for full on multi-crew gameplay to finally hit the verse. I cant wait to be in complete panick mode with my buddies in the polaris.
Hopeful that the Perseus will also receive point defense guns. It definitely needs them.
No one wants to test a 12yr old game where the developers dont listen but ask for more money. They seem like a contractor, they want all the money now without any intention of finishing the job... ive been a supporter for 7 years. Very exhausting!
every time I can save up and buy the corsair I do, the ship is an absolute beast!
Crosses fingers that once all is said and done the flight model will make sense.
The Polaris is cool, though Im more of a Perseus kinda guy. Hopefully the MM changes are to try it before ramping up the speed since the player backlash would be worse if they wanted to try lower speeds after speeding up again. Regardless of how they feel about MM Ive never seen anyone say they wanted ships to be even slower.
MM is worse in any point in comparison to the last fly model. There is nothing to explain, playing is enough for seeing that.
You're flying more like a plane.
You're slow as f whiteout any reason or sense.
It's boring to use
And now they're moving some useful HUD information in stupide place ... They didn't play an hour there game for thinking that was a good idea!!!
The flight model needs work, but there’s still potential. Let’s see what they do next!
Can't wait to hop in my Polaris. The way it's shaping up, it might take the place of my Carrack. Although I would like to see a long distance Self-Sufficient ship from crusader, I think that could be really sweet.
Completely different ship purposes. Polaris running costs are likely going to be quite high, to stop people solo crewing it, and those that do, will be running it at a huge disadvantage.
Youd be better off staying in the carrack.
Really looking forward to seeing how the Polaris looks and feels in-game.
It is nice to hear they are giving capital ships more firepower. The Polaris always seemed a bit under gunned
Didnt they talk abt a tier 1 bed? Wtf.... its rly needed on combat capital ships... it would rly unfair of idris had one and not polaris
Idris is a fleet flagship and significantly bigger than the polaris. Of course it'll have size one beds. The Polaris doesn't need a size one, size 2 is perfectly sufficient. Otherwise it'll make the medical ships like the Galaxy and the Endevour irrelevant.
Mobile size 1 beds will be rare and far between and limited to only the largest of the capitals.
The Polaris is a corvette. In RL corvette have very limited medbays. For full surgical procedures, you ship the patient to a carrier or a mainland hospital. Same idea here.
@@roadsweeper1 im not ok with it cuz the polaris is made to do fast assaults in solo so if he need to rely on an other ship, he become useless... tier 1 comes rly fats with fps combats..
And idris is not a flagship, its a gunship, the javelin is a flag ship. And dont forget that in the lore the polaris is here as a "new" model/rework of the idris and should be at least as good and have a better level of "high tech" features
@@scrap_ereventually all medical beds on ships won't respawn people anyway lmao...that's literally the end goal, respawn on ships right now is only because of the alpha to make death from bugs and jank not as annoying.
@@ChristoffRevan i didnt talk abt respawn, but its a warship and in fps combat, tier 1 injuries happens rly often so.... well loosing 4 of 6 crew members cuz of t1 injuries after a raid....
@@roadsweeper1 You best go google them ship sizes bud it ain't much bigger.
Still got potential with ungraded , components,and fuels to push faster combat for those fighter people.
I have a Polaris pledged. Hoping I can find people to crew it, lol. Also, if you get a chance, please ask "Why are weapons that only the pilot can aim on the Corsair now under the control of the co-pilot?" It really doesn't make sense. Maybe if they put them in a chin turret, then I could see it, but not as-is.
Changing the flight system to please new players is not a good idea
Talk about the Corsair changes and how much it SUCKS!
What did they change?
@@MurderousNoise 2 pilot controlled guns going to the co-pilot.
Someone said they reverted back to the original version in the last EVO patch. I’m not EVO, so it’s 2nd hand info.
@@jodomarj9063 bastards want ppl start to buy other ships. Im not going to spend any penny on SC.
It was long overdue for a nerf. They just did it in a silly way. They should have just downsized some front facing guns.
I think we all want to know the real most pressing question about the Polaris:
When is the pool table going to be functional?
Nice to hear more about the Polaris. I love the look of the smaller capital ships
omg I fully agree with the "Titanfall experience" analogy. This fully explains the feeling I want while playing
Cig needs to realize that not everyone can be good at combat. To be good one must try hard, practice and yet it is not guaranteed he will be good. Some are good and some are not and will suffer. This is the way. Bring 3.22 flight model back. That was true space sim combat flight system. Master modes are just a huge mistake that needs to be erased yesterday
I wonder if control surfaces and aerodynamics will alter the behavior of the MISC Reliant depending on the orientation of its wing?
Scm definitely needs a lot of work, but I can see it being amazing with time.
TTK was always supposed to be much longer than we have now to give THE AVERAGE player a chance to survive engagement and potentially escape.
15 seconds of hell is not enough for that average person to get their head in the game...
Speeds slowing down doesn't make sense really, the better option should be increase range of weaponry. These are space ships the actual speed to break out of atmosphere of planets needs to be somewhat faster.
We'll see where MM take us, there's no rush considering the features that are not in game yet
Hearing the changes for the Polaris makes me even more excited for when it is released and I can finally fly mine around.
Seems like everyone and their dogs will have a Polaris lol
With a crew of course
@@davewills148 Of Course XD
I'm trusting that CIG is working on making the best game better so IDM them changing anything
Dude, I hope that for the Perseus they ad like 2 more remote turrets, cuz its gonna be great for the cannons if you can hit other ships. But fighters will be a problem. I can only assume that they will though, with all of these changes.
Combat movement is already too slow and now they want to slow things down even more? I honestly think that master modes is one of the most unrealistic parts of the game.
My hope is that Yogi has a plan, I know he can make a good flight model, I'm just worried about restrictions coming from up top. I get the idea that we want the skill to be targeting different components, but that sucks imo. I dont want to play an aim trainer, I want to fly a spaceship.
The Polaris will be fun in big space battle and i do hope CIG will give us a reason to take it out also when there are no big events going on. thinking about both pve and pvp bounty hunter missions
??? Unless they upgrade the bounties to include Idris's.... the cost of those size 10 torpedoes will prohibit people from using it as a simple mission runner. It's a small flagship and designed for anti capital useage.
By the time you've paid the 10+ crew their share of the mission payout, and covered the ammunition and fuel costs, I doubt mission running will be profitable, unless they really increase the payouts.
As I’m not a PVPer, the boost speed controversy means nothing to me. The question I would ask CIG is “Why are we having to contend with the same bugs in update after update when the Devs say the bugs are fixed in every update?”
Do we know when stuff like permissions are in game? With those bigger ships you will probably want to restrict access to rooms and systems.
They really push those subscriber flairs to just random items. Probably the best one was June, those hazard suits. And maybe those ship paints would be nice because that is what is the most visible way to inform "hey, I am a subbie"