This Sugrue fellow is a phenomenon. I studied Philosophy both as an undergraduate (Colorado College) and graduate school (University of Freiburg) and have never witnessed a scholar so brilliantly fluent. Astonishing.
More was a rare great mind in history. Like Plato, he got a few key things wrong, but what he got right is worth saving. If only the materialists of the 20th century (and now) understood what he got right, but then, they wouldn't be materialists.
Brilliant, I read Utopia 20 years ago while backpacking but had no context whatever. This along with Bertrand Russell summation really crystalized it for me. Thanks Dr Sugrue!
You’ll see him flip pages on his podium from time to time. He doesn’t seem to really need notes though. But personally, I’d love to look through any notes he may or may not have…just to see
Thank you Prof. Sugrue for this lecture. I listened to this after having listened to your talk on Saint Augustine, and on Meister Eckhart. When listening to your lecture on St Augustine, I was reminded by you of Wittgenstein quoting him in Philosophical Investigations. Your mentioning the mysticism of Meister Eckhart made me think of Zen, and now this lecture reminded me of Hilary Mantel. Thank you so much for these lectures. Luther will me next.
Say what: The Man for All Seasons (Thomas More) truly got it right wrt too much religion/too little religion !! Apparently he was the only? person that Henry the VII regreted executing. Such a great reveal by Prof Sugrue !! Every day is a day of learning and revelation .. What a journey. So profound !! Thank you again Dr Sugrue !!
15:34 Epicurean, Stoic Citizen of The Universe Incorruptible 16:46 Plato & Aristotle don’t talk about Sin 17:17 Human Beings cannot be perfected Even Utopia needs Courts & Laws 18:36 Punishment of Slavery, instead of Death 19:34 Who is to blame for Evil? 20:23 Laws: Simple & Few 21:17 Hope: Possibility of Release 22:30 Hedonism bound by Scripture 23:34 Monastics & Practicals 25:02 Just War Doctrine, Moral Obligation, 1. Self Defense 2. Friendly Defense 3. Deliver from Tyranny 26:19 Strict, Religious, Well Ordered 27:06 No Noble Lies *2 Parts of the book* 28:00 The Dialogue of Council 31:07 Away in The Netherlands 🇳🇱 32:17 An Island, Large Capital City, A River; JUST LIKE ENGLAND 🏴 33:55 Paternalism Elected Prince Honest, Intelligence, Chosen Virtue 35:32 Labor Theory of Value Gold & Silver Gemstones 💎 Beyond Money 💵 💰 Bring home what you need Communal Meals 🥘 37:19 Everyone has to work 2 Skills, 2 Trades 38:22 Don’t be too attached to this world 39:21 Holy Priests 40:24 We will pay high money for mercenaries 41:11 Large bounty on enemies 41:40 Diestic, Natural Religion Christianity makes powerful inroads 42:34 It’s not tech-Utopia, it’s backward looking Utopia. The sheep 🐑 that eat men No more. Abolish commerce. Exchange for gain is evil. 45:01 Nostalgic Criticism
I hope this is the real Michael Sugrue account and if so, thank you so much for the wonderful lectures. I was just wondering if you still had the Symposium Plato lectures at hand? Particularly the one where you speak about love being the yearning for eternity. I would really love to have the chance to listen to it again. Kind regards,
I'm glad to have found an earlier reference to your understanding of Piety (24:14) as "honor to God in service to men", which you've said in recent videos/podcasts, but I could not find it in Euthyphro. Are you sure it came from it? Where should I keep looking? Thanks!
It is not in the Euthyphro, which ends in an aporia (an impasse). Plato does not tell us what piety is, we are left with the ironic non resolution that whatever "Piety" is, it involves parricide driven by the most vicious motives. In accusing his father of a very dubious capital crime, Euthyphro is trying to legally murder his father to gain his inheritance early. Athens is preparing to legally murder the father of the city, Socrates, accusing of corrupting young men like Euthyphro and impiety toward the gods of the city. It took me many years of reading and thinking to compress my answer down into a form Socrates would endorse. After a lifetime of reading and studying, this is the thing I am most certain of.
@@dr.michaelsugrue I consider it a gift "piece of wisdom" so I'm grateful to you. What surprised me (I'm still curious or confused) is that you had already phrased it then (30 years ago, I guess) but recognize it as an achievement/certainty NOW. Its funny that you even attribute it to Plato when in fact it seems to be yours. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Dr Sugrue, thank you. If possible, I'd benefit from a video or podcast on Aristotle, as I find him difficult to appreciate but recognise I must be in the wrong. I find what I read of his work to be hyperconstructed technical verbiage as I have no frame of reference through which to understand him.
Enclosers were perhaps the most naked and monstrous criminality of the capitalist and land-owning class, unobscured by any pretense other that pure inhuman avarice.
I'm always looking for new interesting lectures on Psychology/Philosophy, please let me know if you guys have any recommendations, would be highly appreciated
Around 24:15, I would disagree with Thomas More's fairly "negative" view on monks, and their aspiration for piety etc. I also think people's opinions on monks in the past were rather "high", which is a vague statement anyway. Regardless, people in the past did (some, at least) believe that monks would pray for the kingdom, pray for the community and people's sins and lives, hoping that it would lessen time in purgatory - or get people straight to heaven. Monks in a monastery could function as a kind of "prayer bank", battling the spiritual forces for the people, while everyone else outside was out battling the physical forces - naturally, not everyone had this view - but I read it once and it has stuck with me. One could argue to what extent this practice and thinking is "Christian". Anyhow, monks did participate with their communities, and it's a mistake to think otherwise as suggested by More! We know they provided services and goods, wrote books, made beer etc. As long as he doesn't undermind the idea of monks completely I'm on board, and i don't think he does (?). I would agree that the spiritual purification one gets from being a monk can be achieved by normal people. Everyone has their own 'call' in life, and for some, it would be becoming a monk. Rant over, just had to throw in my two cents. Thanks for the lectures - I'm enjoying every single one!
Great video (as always). I do have a query though from this and other videos. Is original sin something we are born with (ie our moral ledger starts off in debt and we have work it off) or is it the human condition (we are not perfect therefore at some point we'll sin)? The first viewpoint, I find abhorrent but this was what I was taught and this still seems to be the consensus. The second viewpoint has only been explained in your videos and it makes perfect sense and the fact the Church does not push this is also abhorrent to me. Or is there a third interpretation - am I misunderstanding this topic?
@@Brecf2p Yes it is the human condition that we have fallen short of our true human nature, hence "the Fall". We are all caught in a spiritual battle with God gifting us human capacities and the freedom to steward creation in fellowship with the divine, and Satan tempting us to act like selfish, destructive beasts, and take pride in it. That is why God came in the flesh, to remind us how to be truly human.
There are many different interpretations. A lot of the debate is between Augustine vs Rousseau. In both their Confessions, you can read how they both steal a pear and what the moral consequences are. There isn't exactly a definitive definition as it has varied throughout theological tradition. Though, it is mostly related to the Fall and the book of Genesis. Rabbinic tradition and the Church Fathers have carrying interpretations. A lot of it has to do with the eating of the apple and the temptation (or desire) to do so. Sin originally meant to miss the mark. It has taken up a whole new connotation in today's time. A great book is the Perfectability of Man by John Passmore, a forgotten giant in 20th century philosophy. It is basically a historical overview of different responses for or against original sin.
peopke in western counries want rights, freedoms and freedoms of speech, plus it`s not politically correct to upset, offend, discrimate against others. Views of peoples rights, freedoms and freedom of speech are contraction of being polictically correct and not offending others.
What happens when I am more efficient at my work duties and get to produce more than the man next to me in less time and still get time to attend the lectures??? Not fair, still need to wear gray and do not enjoy music events???
According to the US constitution, anybody who is jailed or imprisoned can be made into a slave for the duration of their confinement. They can be forced to do hard labor of any sort, without choice and without payment. Not just prisoners worthy of the death penalty. All of them.
I don't want the money....crying all day you heard me on phone....uou hear everything....i dont want it never really did but thought i could help her be rich....just in case i anit there... dude..i never have hit her ever. If she day i did ... prove it...because now i think... I want to be wt her. I dont know why everyone talk me out this...i wanted to be nice to .so did get mad about all the crazy stuff you tell me...but didnt say anything..you would say n word i didn't understand..24...i jistvwant her...all be here till kicked out basically .i cant leave her i never wanted to...millions dont matterst vuz proples disters and of course said mo to sdsin ataacks...made no sense cuz..i didnt think there top person..tell will to call...i said hey need to be wt Bob..eanted to shake hand you said no..i dont understand jow i get..moe Michelle. Neibors.. i knew they would team up. Just not so quick..
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Every time the Prof. says Now or takes a drink of coffee you know he’s digging in like really getting to the meat of the intellectual’s thought.
I love both of those moments.
His coffee is a dose of new enlightenment
Love the ‘now’… hadn’t considered its coffee he’s sippin’. Love that!!
Love when he says NOW
@@Gabingus69 and NAY :)
This Sugrue fellow is a phenomenon. I studied Philosophy both as an undergraduate (Colorado College) and graduate school (University of Freiburg) and have never witnessed a scholar so brilliantly fluent. Astonishing.
Meh...
He's aight. 🧐
Doesn't use the word had enough... As in: He had gave dis whole speech and had not said da word had none at all. Or had he been said dat shit?
Shit
I could listen to this guy all day
I have been listening to this guy all day lol such awesome lectures 🔥
He is extremely eloquent.
moore and sugrue!
I pretty much do.
RIP KING, PLATO OF STORYTELLING
This man is so articulate
I'm gonna scrape the internet for everything he's done
That’s what I’m doing right now.
Check out Manly P. Hall also.
I will single handedly get this to a million views over the course of my life
Absolutely love that you've posted all of these for free, thank you so much.
Very interesting lecture. I enjoyed both your lecture and Professor Darren's on Moore's Utopia.
I like how he looks into the camera when he says "No lawyers in Utopia"
More was a rare great mind in history. Like Plato, he got a few key things wrong, but what he got right is worth saving. If only the materialists of the 20th century (and now) understood what he got right, but then, they wouldn't be materialists.
Please do a compilation of all the coffee sips
Brilliant, I read Utopia 20 years ago while backpacking but had no context whatever. This along with Bertrand Russell summation really crystalized it for me. Thanks Dr Sugrue!
All your videos are just excellent 👌🏻 and helped me a lot to clear the concepts regarding the concerned topic. Thanks a lot sir 🙏🏻
He does this without any notes! Classic!
You’ll see him flip pages on his podium from time to time. He doesn’t seem to really need notes though. But personally, I’d love to look through any notes he may or may not have…just to see
Amen! Would love to see his notes as well. I enjoy listening to his lectures. Very informative. Encourages me to study more.
Dr Sugrue is conductor of philosophy 🪄
The camera guys are locked in. Mikey doesnt flinch once without the guys panning to keep the frame. I love the dedication to the craft
More must have been a noble and in very many ways arise spirit. I admire him.
Thank you Prof. Sugrue for this lecture. I listened to this after having listened to your talk on Saint Augustine, and on Meister Eckhart. When listening to your lecture on St Augustine, I was reminded by you of Wittgenstein quoting him in Philosophical Investigations. Your mentioning the mysticism of Meister Eckhart made me think of Zen, and now this lecture reminded me of Hilary Mantel. Thank you so much for these lectures. Luther will me next.
Say what: The Man for All Seasons (Thomas More) truly got it right wrt too much religion/too little religion !! Apparently he was the only? person that Henry the VII regreted executing. Such a great reveal by Prof Sugrue !! Every day is a day of learning and revelation .. What a journey. So profound !! Thank you again Dr Sugrue !!
15:34 Epicurean, Stoic
Citizen of The Universe
Incorruptible
16:46 Plato & Aristotle don’t talk about Sin
17:17 Human Beings cannot be perfected
Even Utopia needs Courts & Laws
18:36 Punishment of Slavery, instead of Death
19:34 Who is to blame for Evil?
20:23 Laws: Simple & Few
21:17 Hope: Possibility of Release
22:30 Hedonism bound by Scripture
23:34 Monastics & Practicals
25:02 Just War Doctrine, Moral Obligation,
1. Self Defense
2. Friendly Defense
3. Deliver from Tyranny
26:19 Strict, Religious, Well Ordered
27:06 No Noble Lies
*2 Parts of the book*
28:00 The Dialogue of Council
31:07 Away in The Netherlands 🇳🇱
32:17 An Island, Large Capital City, A River; JUST LIKE ENGLAND 🏴
33:55 Paternalism
Elected Prince
Honest, Intelligence, Chosen Virtue
35:32 Labor Theory of Value
Gold & Silver
Gemstones 💎
Beyond Money 💵 💰
Bring home what you need
Communal Meals 🥘
37:19 Everyone has to work
2 Skills, 2 Trades
38:22 Don’t be too attached to this world
39:21 Holy Priests
40:24 We will pay high money for mercenaries
41:11 Large bounty on enemies
41:40 Diestic, Natural Religion
Christianity makes powerful inroads
42:34 It’s not tech-Utopia, it’s backward looking Utopia.
The sheep 🐑 that eat men
No more. Abolish commerce.
Exchange for gain is evil.
45:01 Nostalgic Criticism
Elegant! 💛
Great insights - I finally see the value in these timeless classics
Thanks!
dr. i'd like to request that you put your lectures in playlists if there are some lectures that are meant to be watched as a series
They will be organized once they are all uploaded
Genius. Bright. Reminds me of Diana Uribe and her discourse on the Persian civilization and other’s history
Thank You!
1. Atheism
2. Utopia
3. Equal, sight of God
Grateful ❤
I hope this is the real Michael Sugrue account and if so, thank you so much for the wonderful lectures. I was just wondering if you still had the Symposium Plato lectures at hand? Particularly the one where you speak about love being the yearning for eternity. I would really love to have the chance to listen to it again. Kind regards,
This is the real account. The symposium lectures will be uploaded in the near future. Thank you for your kind words
@@dr.michaelsugrue I would like to second that request the Symposium lecture. It drove me to actually read the Symposium. Which I owe you my thanks.
I'm glad to have found an earlier reference to your understanding of Piety (24:14) as "honor to God in service to men", which you've said in recent videos/podcasts, but I could not find it in Euthyphro. Are you sure it came from it? Where should I keep looking? Thanks!
It is not in the Euthyphro, which ends in an aporia (an impasse). Plato does not tell us what piety is, we are left with the ironic non resolution that whatever "Piety" is, it involves parricide driven by the most vicious motives. In accusing his father of a very dubious capital crime, Euthyphro is trying to legally murder his father to gain his inheritance early. Athens is preparing to legally murder the father of the city, Socrates, accusing of corrupting young men like Euthyphro and impiety toward the gods of the city. It took me many years of reading and thinking to compress my answer down into a form Socrates would endorse. After a lifetime of reading and studying, this is the thing I am most certain of.
@@dr.michaelsugrue I consider it a gift "piece of wisdom" so I'm grateful to you. What surprised me (I'm still curious or confused) is that you had already phrased it then (30 years ago, I guess) but recognize it as an achievement/certainty NOW. Its funny that you even attribute it to Plato when in fact it seems to be yours. Correct me if I'm wrong.
English is not my main language so I may have misunderstood and/or "mis"expressed myself.
Outstanding!
Dr Sugrue, thank you. If possible, I'd benefit from a video or podcast on Aristotle, as I find him difficult to appreciate but recognise I must be in the wrong. I find what I read of his work to be hyperconstructed technical verbiage as I have no frame of reference through which to understand him.
I don't know if you're super active on your RUclips but, have you thought about a Podcast? I can listen to you for hours.
We do have a podcast. It is called The Idea Store and it is available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc.
Look at that man’s hair, this is an intellectual juggernaut 🤌🏾
Beginning to see why there were so many utopian sects in early America.
Almost an American tradition.
Always learn something good with the prof.: NO NEED FOR LAWYERS in utopia👏🏻👏🏻 those sneaky, posturing, lying snakes 🐍
Lord Privy Seal was the Tudor equivalent of Prime Minister. Thomas More was Lord Chancellor.
Many thanks!
wonderful
Enclosers were perhaps the most naked and monstrous criminality of the capitalist and land-owning class, unobscured by any pretense other that pure inhuman avarice.
I'm always looking for new interesting lectures on Psychology/Philosophy, please let me know if you guys have any recommendations, would be highly appreciated
Check out "the great course"
I love how he quickly bypassed the communism as fantasy
What is he saying at 11:57 position of what?
Savonarola, I believe it's a reference to Girolamo Savonarola which makes sense
Around 24:15, I would disagree with Thomas More's fairly "negative" view on monks, and their aspiration for piety etc. I also think people's opinions on monks in the past were rather "high", which is a vague statement anyway. Regardless, people in the past did (some, at least) believe that monks would pray for the kingdom, pray for the community and people's sins and lives, hoping that it would lessen time in purgatory - or get people straight to heaven. Monks in a monastery could function as a kind of "prayer bank", battling the spiritual forces for the people, while everyone else outside was out battling the physical forces - naturally, not everyone had this view - but I read it once and it has stuck with me. One could argue to what extent this practice and thinking is "Christian". Anyhow, monks did participate with their communities, and it's a mistake to think otherwise as suggested by More! We know they provided services and goods, wrote books, made beer etc. As long as he doesn't undermind the idea of monks completely I'm on board, and i don't think he does (?). I would agree that the spiritual purification one gets from being a monk can be achieved by normal people. Everyone has their own 'call' in life, and for some, it would be becoming a monk. Rant over, just had to throw in my two cents. Thanks for the lectures - I'm enjoying every single one!
Great video (as always). I do have a query though from this and other videos. Is original sin something we are born with (ie our moral ledger starts off in debt and we have work it off) or is it the human condition (we are not perfect therefore at some point we'll sin)? The first viewpoint, I find abhorrent but this was what I was taught and this still seems to be the consensus. The second viewpoint has only been explained in your videos and it makes perfect sense and the fact the Church does not push this is also abhorrent to me. Or is there a third interpretation - am I misunderstanding this topic?
Think of it this way. If everyone acted like you, would this world be perfect? If you had all authority, would this world be a utopia?
@@kevinjeffries5233 So this is original sin? I had not thought of it like that. So sin is not an action but human nature.
@@Brecf2p Yes it is the human condition that we have fallen short of our true human nature, hence "the Fall". We are all caught in a spiritual battle with God gifting us human capacities and the freedom to steward creation in fellowship with the divine, and Satan tempting us to act like selfish, destructive beasts, and take pride in it. That is why God came in the flesh, to remind us how to be truly human.
There are many different interpretations. A lot of the debate is between Augustine vs Rousseau. In both their Confessions, you can read how they both steal a pear and what the moral consequences are. There isn't exactly a definitive definition as it has varied throughout theological tradition.
Though, it is mostly related to the Fall and the book of Genesis. Rabbinic tradition and the Church Fathers have carrying interpretations. A lot of it has to do with the eating of the apple and the temptation (or desire) to do so.
Sin originally meant to miss the mark. It has taken up a whole new connotation in today's time.
A great book is the Perfectability of Man by John Passmore, a forgotten giant in 20th century philosophy. It is basically a historical overview of different responses for or against original sin.
@@kevinjeffries5233 yes, understanding the Incarnation certainly helps. I find this to make a lot of sense.
peopke in western counries want rights, freedoms and freedoms of speech, plus it`s not politically correct to upset, offend, discrimate against others. Views of peoples rights, freedoms and freedom of speech are contraction of being polictically correct and not offending others.
What happens when I am more efficient at my work duties and get to produce more than the man next to me in less time and still get time to attend the lectures??? Not fair, still need to wear gray and do not enjoy music events???
According to the US constitution, anybody who is jailed or imprisoned can be made into a slave for the duration of their confinement. They can be forced to do hard labor of any sort, without choice and without payment. Not just prisoners worthy of the death penalty. All of them.
Don’t repeatedly break the law then
My ex wife was a lawyer. I agree with Moore.
Just one last thing, perfection or excellence, there is a distinction to be made.
Wow more didn't take bribes? Wish politions today didn't take bribes. Today it's not one person one vote its one dollar one vote.
We only have to pay half cause only half is coming back😂😂😂😂
Now...more now...
One Nation Under God - Except for you atheists.
Moore Cynthia Johnson Larry Jackson Angela
I really need that address...talk.. talk...pen 160?? 911
Robinson Carol Martin Donald Harris Karen
Timad
sounds like hell
Lol black suit
I don't want the money....crying all day you heard me on phone....uou hear everything....i dont want it never really did but thought i could help her be rich....just in case i anit there... dude..i never have hit her ever. If she day i did
... prove it...because now i think... I want to be wt her. I dont know why everyone talk me out this...i wanted to be nice to
.so did get mad about all the crazy stuff you tell me...but didnt say anything..you would say n word i didn't understand..24...i jistvwant her...all be here till kicked out basically
.i cant leave her i never wanted to...millions dont matterst vuz proples disters and of course said mo to sdsin ataacks...made no sense cuz..i didnt think there top person..tell will to call...i said hey need to be wt Bob..eanted to shake hand you said no..i dont understand jow i get..moe Michelle. Neibors.. i knew they would team up. Just not so quick..