6 Spicy Features I'd love to see in Persona 6
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- This was supposed to be a list that sort of turned into a video essay.
I try to make it clear in the video but to reiterate: I really don't want to ruin anything you love about this series. I simply want to share a perspective that might be compelling if given the proper amount of context.
After making the guide on "The easiest way to beat Elizabeth in Persona 3 Reload without Orpheus Telos" and also showcasing that you can beat her with Chi You as your only persona, I got such an amazing response that I felt inspired to connect more with the Persona community.
I wanted to get this out before we get more Persona 6 leaks or news that would make these suggestions / systems / mechanics / features moot but I kept adding to my thoughts on it which led to a lot more editing than I'm used to.
This made the creation of this video quite the buzzer beater. It's likely the most time and effort I've ever put into making a youtube video and I really enjoyed the process.
I hope you enjoy the result. :)
Intro (0:00)
Feature 1 (1:32)
Feature 2 (11:10)
Feature 3 (19:05)
Feature 4 (21:13)
Feature 5 (25:18)
Feature 6 (31:56)
Outro (36:36) 
Игры
Great vid, you def have a unique perspective but I appreciate it
1- I think having no control over the party members is too far(atleast if that’s the only option) but I think it’d be cool to see party members acting on their own occasionally. Imagine if in the story you have to pick a side between 2 characters having an argument and until that gets resolved the character you don’t side with has a chance to disobey your commands. The same thing could happen if you neglect a characters social link, they could loose trust in you and act freely sometimes. To go along with the fatigue system characters could be less receptive to your orders the more exhausted they are.
2- having the game have dungeons effect the social system is genius and a really good idea. I think it’d be cool to get social link points for characters in your party when you’re doing consistently well in battles.
3- it could be cool if social links outside of your party could have multiple paths. Like if you encourage their bad behavior you can finish it quicker but they end up as a worse person whereas if you give them good advice you have to grind more but get a more satisfying ending. This would actually make you question the morals because you get all the same benefits either way but if you spend more time and give good advice they turn out a better person. It would make the player have to decide if they care more about getting the gameplay benefits as quickly as possible or if they wanna put time in and be a better friend.
4- I dont mind a mascot if it’s done well but I don’t mind if there isn’t one
5- I think as long as those bosses are optional it’s fine.
6- I completely agree that you shouldn’t be able to finish all the content in one play through. It’s way more interesting to actually have to consider what characters you like and who you want to spend time with. It would make the social system more engaging because as you get further in the game you have to choose what characters you want to finish and what characters you don’t. Plus the replay-ability def benefits from this.
Hey thanks a lot!
I really appreciate your perspective and the way you approached tweaking these.
1 sounds like a great compromise that stays true to my overall goal of imagining things more interconnected and immersive.
Your take on 3 gels quite well with 6 also. Really neat ideas. I love the concept of choosing between “smash and grab that power” or “take the time to earn them”. It’s similar to the little sister choice from Bioshock but framed more intricately and would likely be more robust due to the social link improving through out the play through and being a consistent reward.
I’m always more interested in worlds you can affect and experience the consequences of those effects during the playthrough as opposed to games where you’re sort of filling out a Madlib for the ending that says “x is king now, y has gone into hiding, etc.”
Tell me your favorite Persona game is Persona 3 without telling me you like Persona 3
Haha ya got me. Did any of the 6 stand out to you in particular?
I couldn't disagree more with the first one.
I can let suspension of disbelief take care of the fact that I'm making the choices for the main characters, I'd feel it would be harder to do so if they were wasting turns doing werid shit because a dumb ai said so.
For how could it would be for AI to make clutch saves it's also fun to do it on your own, and the downside of taking agency away from the player is that you can make people lose close battles through no fault of their own or be carried through battles in unsatisfying ways.
You can still give agency to characters through game mechanics by making them defiant, giving them boosts on specific moves on certain turns, or by having them suggest a certain strategy.
Hey fair enough, my wish for it relies on the AI at least being as seemingly smart as the actual characters which may be a pipe dream.
I like the tweaks you’re talking about though. Especially love the idea of party members making a suggestion, could be the perfect middle ground especially since it’s turn based.
@@PlexicraftIt would be fine to include if they did it the way they did in p3, with the option for direct command for people who don’t like it.
They still had the option for it in p4, but it was half assed and the ai weren’t nearly as smart so it was never useful
@@AmeButCoolI don’t really want to take away anyone’s ability to choose, in a perfect world: I’d prefer it be an option but not the default one so that players can experience the party AI making moves the characters would and the difficulty was perfectly tuned so that there was no benefit selecting one or the other in a lower stakes early scenario. Then they could decide if they wanted full control.
Since this is pretty much impossible without making the party AI mode potentially feel like “training wheels mode” to some and “RNG fest” to others, I went pretty drastic with my wish for it to be the only mode to remove the burden of choice from the player.
That has its own flaws where some would still prefer to have the choice rather than curation. It’s a tough one but I enjoy the discussion it allows us fans to have about it :)
Amazing video. I especially liked 6. When I played persona 5 for the first time, I felt like I had to use a guide. I just had to experience everything. Sadly, this meant giving up on all the surprises I would have gotten if I actually played the game blind. And I think those little discoveries would do more than enough to make up for missing out on a few ranks on a couple of my confidants.
Hey thanks for this :)
It’s so hard right? How do we experience everything without ruining that experience?
On new game plus, all the bonuses from maxing out a social link in the previous play through like the arcana exp burst during fusion is kept, this works in tandem with your point 6 so you don’t have to redo previously completed social links just for their bonuses, and have more time to spend on the new/not completed ones
I’ve thought about this a bit and I’m still not sure where I land with it. Keeping it like this would make the transition from first game to NG+ feel smoother and keep some stakes in terms of “do what you want”.
The main thing I want to avoid is some sort of “optimal path” that the player would benefit from googling.
Eg: “focus magician, star, and priestess first playthrough and then on NG+ do xyz so you can build a team that can take NG+3 boss”
I know I’m overthinking this hypothetical but the main exercise I’m trying to get into is “how do we get more good, keep as much of the good we already have, and cut out what we don’t want”.
It’s an interesting puzzle and the closest I’ve come is like you said, just let NG+ handle it. Has so many benefits and only the potential for some drawbacks depending on what the rewards for optimizing are.
@@Plexicraft very true, i was thinking about more of a way to encourage players to take their time, as it would not feel like said progress went up in smoke when starting a new game, since if they do go with the option 6, since it would otherwise be impossible to get all the bonuses in a single run
@@damiansaturday6788 that’s a very good point. The angle I was coming at was “maybe we can decouple the extrinsic rewards from the experience somehow” but I feel we lose quite a bit starting there.
Finding ways to help players feel comfortable taking their time sounds much more elegant!
@@Plexicraft thanks
On 3 and 6: I think that allowing for responses in social links to actually matter and change how the characters grow or become worse would be much more interesting than just grinding for some extra points. An easy way for this would be to separate the arcana social link levels from the stages of the relation, like, at first you'll want to be a yes man to get along and gain some points, but you'll notice that the only way to help them is to give the answers they don't want and won't reward as many points. So maybe the "good" ending to their episodes/events will take longer because you'll need to grind some points just going out and passing time with them, while the "bad" ending requires less "filler episodes" but ends with them in a worse place, maybe even ending in a social link reversal. Just things like that might make completing all social links in a single run much more difficult if not outright impossible without multiple "bad" rank 10s or reversals
Yeah @eh3744 had a similar take on this. It's so cool to see that others would be interested in the potential for more of the intrinsic benefit of the way the characters could be in a better place rather than just the extrinsic "Gimme those rank rank points".
I agree, making social links have multiple paths and different definitions of success would help a ton in terms of immersion and replayability.
You lowkey cooked when you suggested adding a fatigue system. It would be neat having more interactions between the social sim and the dungeon crawling.
Hey thanks for that, and yeah I’d love for it to have such a robust connection that the amount of good choices you have make it difficult to discover one optimal path. I’d enjoy kind of losing myself in it and trying different strategies focused on engaging short term goals rather than feel so compelled to make the long term goal of “do everything perfectly” work out.
Just curious, did any of the other 5 resonate with you?
All of your other takes were pretty cool as well! I'm a bit iffy on ai partners but it's a good idea to further incorporate the s link into gameplay.
Mascot characters are fine. They're at their best when written seriously like Teddie in the Velvet Room, or Aigis in her s link.
Big agree with giving your friends bad advice. Why would they like you if you disagreed with everything they said?
Having more endgame bosses would be fun as well. It was a shame that P3MC and P4MC in the P5 were kind of a joke.
I also agree hugely with not being able to do all s links in one playthrough. It encourages replayability while also being immersive like you said. Most of my friends just search up the answers to every test or slink which does bog down the experience of playing the game.
@@purpleclover2136 oh wow it’s nice to find others who are into these sort of aspects!
And def, Aigis is probably my favorite character in the entire series so I’d love to see more characters like her, mascot or not.
And yeah, if I could pick just one I’d wish that you couldn’t max every social link in one playthrough. It’d be great to separate the experience from Google haha
@@Plexicraft I agree, but only if the game doesn't give you a reward for somehow completing all the Social Links in one playthrough. Persona 3 was almost impossible to complete all the Social Links, yet the dangling reward of Orpheus Telos was way too good. If P6 is structured like P3, but doesn't give out an insane reward like Orpheus Telos, then I'd be fine with making Social Links impossible to 100% in one playthrough. And for the record, I know it's 100% possible to complete all Social Links in P3. It's just incredibly strict and you need your eyes planted to a guidebook to do so.
It might sound nice on paper
But for people who play game to relax. This feature might annoy them and mess up the experience. However, if they add this feature in Hard mode or made it optional, i guess it will be fine
I don't think having non-controllable party members being the only option is a good idea, but being able to choose to permanently turn off controllable party members at the start of playthrough would work. Sorta like the Draconian Quest options in Dragon Quest 11.
That’s quite an elegant solution, I dig it :D
I basically agree with them all, but here's what I had written while watching!!:
I absolutely love the first idea and have been thinking about it recently. I want them to have full agency... If at the very least, I would REALLY like them to make it so that: In battle, the game doesn't end when the protag, you - dies. But your teammates [canonly unable to be lead], can act automatically and you just have to hope they revive you. You're exactly right, this would work if the party AI was simply... truly developed, but people doubt the potential. Ah and omg!! I love the idea about how your relationships with them can effect their battle choices. It seems so fundamental for this type of game, yet honestly, Persona doesn't REALLY dive into the relationships as I'd like: It's told, not shown. When dating, you can maybe pick your date to the beach, but that's about it. And hell, they do the same for your friendships, in the game itself *and* how they represent the characters thereon, because they treat the social link stories themselves as throwaway in the main story. That's what causes characters to seem so one-note in Q.
And omg!! Tartarus consequences... god I would love if they intertwined more. It would feel so fleshed out.
Hey, thanks so much for the kind feedback :D
I totally agree that party members should be able to revive you! I feel that if they can move from Persona 3 FES to Persona 3 Portable and change the way the attack all or "Ma-skills" will still trigger a One More Turn when you hit a weakness but also hit an enemy who isn't weak to that "Ma-Skill" the can absolutely get away with changing it so your party can revive you.
I think you're dead on about people doubting the AI being able to get to where it needs to be to make party AI actually feel immersive. I'd just love to see them try to knock it out of the park though :D
and you reminded me: I didn't add it in this video but, I'd love for the romances to unlock bonus ranks in a social link because as it is currently implemented, the optimal way to progress is to just shelve a confidant once they're maxed and that's not at all how relationships (especially romantic ones) work! Having additional ranks would make it so players would be encouraged by the game mechanics to use their time with the person they're dating rather than get them to max and automatically default to looking to move others towards max rank.
There's so many possibilities for mechanics to intertwine I feel like I could talk about it all day haha
#1 - I have always had a similar viewpoint, except I view it more as part of the overall lesson of the game. You get thrust into a team you don't know and they grow alongside you. You watch and learn to trust or counteract their actions. It's part of the core message of the game.
#2 - Yes, I noticed in reload I am halfway through new game plus and I have never gone to the nurse. Though I think P6 did an alright job with it, but it just doesn't feel like enough when you could be dealing with your actual day to day health.
#3 - Yeah, hard agree.
#4 - Yeah, I'm kind of sick of them. I would be fine with a regular animal, but they're just kinda bleh.
#5 - Isn't that close to the challenge battles in P5? I mean the gist, but more difficult.
#6 - I don't play Persona games to complete perfectly, so this just wouldn't effect me. So I don't have an opinion one way or the other.
Love your way of explaining your perspective for the first one. That’s essentially the experience I want with the battle system.
I actually haven’t done the challenge battles in 5 since I played 5 when it came out and only recently picked up Royal. I might be mistaken but I think they’re exclusive to Royal. Either way, I’m looking forward to them!
And yeah I’d love to turn off the part of my mind that screams “Make sure you don’t miss the ‘True Ending’!” it definitely pulls me out of the experience sometimes.
What would you say is your fav Persona game of those you’ve played?
@@Plexicraft Persona 3 for sure. Honestly I just picked Royal myself so it may be just a Royal feature. 😅
@@designconker4796 Haha I’m still chasing that feeling from the first time I played P3!
I have high hopes for 6 but I’m actually really interested in Metaphor: ReFantazio since I have a feeling that might be where they really get to get weird and experimental with design again.
I’m not saying that I expect 6 to be nothing but more polish but they do have a good thing going and they know it.
The tactics system was actually pretty interesting in P3 due to how it sorta "balanced" some characters out, even though it wasn't perfect. Aigis was the ultimate support by having access to all buffs while Akihiko was an enemy's nightmare by having all the debuffs. These are both heavy points in their favor, but due to not having direct control, there's a drawback: You can't decide the order of their buffs and debuffs.
If you wanted Tarunda, you'll just have to wait until they cycle through to it. This meant that party members with specific buffs and debuffs were not only always consistent in their usage, but they worked well with Akihiko and Aigis since it would speed along their cycle and get to the de/buffs you ACTUALLY want them to use faster.
Furthermore, with how getting knocked down worked, if you didn't protect your own weaknesses well enough, you'd get knocked down. Standing up, however, actually took your whole turn, so you wouldn't be able to change tactics if you get hit, and the option to Guard only existed in Portable, so you could go into a fight and get walloped until you dodge or your allies do something good on their current tactics.
Analyzing an enemy, despite not revealing affinities to you, reveals affinities to your allies, letting you gamble on their ability to hit a knockdown. This meant you regularly had to trust them to progress the fight without you since they had information you didn't.
Of course, this system wasn't perfect, like how Yukari is known for rarely using Charmdi despite most situations, basically creating a dead move taking up space in her moveset, or how Mitsuru would spam Marin Karin (if left on act freely), but I think it could actually be improved upon and become more interesting. With the addition of Guarding, taking a turn to scope out the enemies and their moves to prevent getting knocked down by a weakness and losing a turn could make it all the more interesting.
Frankly, I think it's really hard to balance out both Direct Commands and other tactics since the dynamics of P3's tactics are basically dead in Portable, as everything I listed just... goes away the moment you can command someone directly. I would commend Atlus if they managed to create a game where both are valid, interesting options, but I think it'd be super hard to make them co-exist without just locking you into Direct Commands or General Tactics at the start of the game and designing encounters from there.
Absolutely, my wish for number 1 may be a pipe dream due to how difficult it could be to balance difficulty wise while still feeling immersive and engaging but I tried to give it the out of “at least they wouldn’t have to balance for direct control if we made this the only way”.
Which is… kinda drastic haha
But yeah, like you mentioned, I love the concept of characters personalities showing up in battle.
Others have mentioned some cool suggestions that are less drastic and more elegant so I’m optimistic about what we’ll see from P6 :D
@@PlexicraftI think I’ll make a full comment about it when I get a minute, but I think to execute your number 1 correctly, there would need a huge overhaul on how the ai and speed stat work for it to work, which I think is sadly a pipe dream for an already established game with an established system.
The speed stat change mostly to say that instead of whoever is fastest goes first, it would work better if you assigned certain characters certain priority so they can act accordingly. It’s the way I’ve been playing persona 3 reload, using the stat cards for agility to chose who goes first. I made Yukari the fastest, so she can top the party up if need be, or lower the enemies accuracy from the get go. Then I made sure that Mitsuru was the second fastest, so she can lower the defense of every enemy or get an sp drain in if the the defense drop wasn’t needed. After that, for my team anyway, it dosen’t matter who goes next, but I make sure their speed is lower than Mitsuru’s. I also have an invigorate band on both Mitsuru and Yukari since their sp cost is frontloaded every battle.
If the game were balanced around not chosing what the teammates do, after the depth of strategy that can go into controlling them, the system would either have to be very fleshed out, or you still have some level of control wether it be before the fight or during.
Another problem arises when ailments come into play. Since often times, ailments are applied to the team as the battle is about to be won, but with no control of your teamates, ailments become kinda redundant. Say the ailments are applied when the enemy is one hit away from death, and your healer didn’t get ailed. When in control, you would kill the enemy, fight done. When not in control, your healer would either have to prioritize healing the ailments, costing you sp, or prioritize fighting, which would be a double edged sword for when you actually do need the ailments to go away (if they were applied near the beginning of the fight). Other than making the ai a lot smarter, if you the player can tell them to prioritize one or the other, it means that they can’t really act dynamically. Imagine another scenario where the fight is midway through, and the ailment isint really severe. If the ai is more aligned to cure ailments, it’ll just get rid of it. It might as well of not happened. As if the enemy wasted their turn, to waste your healers turn. So instead you just get free damage.
I don’t claim to say that ai won’t ever be at the point were it can make good calls. I’m certainly not expecting an ai that perfectly acts as I want it to, I just think it’s not super conceivable to think an ai could get a system that feels like the character truly has free will without feeling like every battle is an rng fest. And that’s not something you want in a game, as a dev or player. If it’s a game of luck, sure go ahead. But in a game of skill, when luck is what chooses what 3/4th’s of your team does, it’s a bit too much.
@@Vidzaes yeah I should be clear, I don’t anticipate any of these “features” actually being in Persona 6 (maybe #5 would Idk).
They are all sort of pipe dreams. P Studio knows they have gold so they would be wise to iterate upon it rather than toss it out looking for another precious metal.
But if I think through a bit of what you’re talking about (really appreciate the detail you went into btw) there’s two points I’d push back on and that’s that making the party AI controlled would be an RNG fest and that to make the party members convincingly smart enough would be quite difficult.
To the first point, I think this is somewhat on a gradient, while there is already some rng in battle (cries, misses, who gets attacked and is weak, trying to suss out what an enemy is weak to) I believe that if party AI is done well enough it can not only work to feel immersive also but still feel strategically satisfying.
How that works out leads directly to the second point. Making party AI smart enough. My limited understanding of most character AI (typically enemy AI) is that the most difficult part isn’t making them challenging or competent but instead making them “dumb” enough to not feel unfair or robotic.
In the situation you listed where a healer dodges an ailment and can end the fight, whatever info you know (the healers attack strength, likelihood to hit, and the enemy’s remaining hp, etc.) would also be known by the game or the party AI and should be able to execute on the smartest plan.
Another way to look at the first point is that while Persona has established in 4, 5, p3p and reload as a strategic turn based battle system, OG P3 and Fes aren’t necessarily RNG fests in my mind as much as they are trying to emulate a “single player co op” game.
There are choices you can make to have some more control like if Junpei just lost Chidori and is only swinging for the fences you might be in a position to bench him or lean into his rage.
If Yukari is feeling like she can’t focus based on learning new info about her family you can swap in Ken to have someone more reliable or keep her in so she can grow more confident in herself.
I don’t mean to scope creep everything here but these sorts of systems can range from very basic to something much more immersive depending on how far the design moves along a gradient.
@@Plexicraft I understand the point you’re making, and now also understand what you mean by making them “dumb” enough. They have all the information available. I think my perfect version of a system you’re describing wouldn’t really work in a persona setting.
I don’t really like relinquishing all control of my party members. Instead of having them emotionally driven like your example, where they mostly do one action (Like Junpei going in guns blazing when he lost Chidori) I think seeing characteristics from the characters be improved through story moments (a little like how spending time cooking, farming, reading, etc. with p3 peeps gives them buffs) but have it be meaningful characteristics.
For example, Junpei can’t bare to lose anyone else after losing Chidori, so if anyone in the team were to take heavy damage, have him get a reactionary action were he will, out of turn order, hit the enemy, inflicting distress on them or something. I’m yet to make a game, and this is just a crude example, so it might not be balanced.
To loop back the relinquishing control, I really would like to see a system do it well. But the allies need to have either much simplified kits and the game balanced around it (one character can only heal, not attack. Another can only buff, another can only debuff, etc) so the control you have becomes “who do I bring for this fight” and not “who’s less likely to do something that waste a turn” . I see this system working better in a real time combat fight rather than a turn base one, where you actually don’t want to be controlling your companions as you need to focus on you.
All in all, the main point I want to make, is I don’t want control to be completely out of my hands. Either lowering the things allies can do, making them more reactionary than just waiting for their turn, or other. I don’t claim to know how to retain control while keeping the allies act freely within their character. I just know that if I had to chose one or the other, I would prefer complete control over immersion during combat.
@@Vidzaes I totally respect your opinion on it and I really enjoyed your solution of an out of order reactionary turn. That’s quite an elegant solution to bridge the gap between direct control and surprising anime hype moments.
I agree with a system that is positive reinforcement leaning to help determine who to bring but I’m not sure if it would need to be limited as much as your example but I can see how the balance is being taken into account there.
Real time combat like Tales of or Star Ocean is definitely where a system like this would work best and I too would not want to give up my favorite turn based battle mechanics just to have it work in such a way so I may be trying to force a square peg into a round hole. FF12 with its gambits are the closest analogue I can come up with to describe a version of my pipe dream AI.
I just remember playing FES and being like “oh wow, there is so much potential here despite everyone hating this” haha
Either way, it’s been fun riffing on the game design aspects. I’m very new to game design so I’m trying to explore and experiment as much as I can and it’s always nice to bounce ideas :)
I personally didn't mind morgana, in fact I really like him. Conceptually, him being the literal symbol of hope accompanying the Phantom Thieves against yaldabaoth really works and I've grown fond of his dynamic with the MC. Does that mean his execution was perfect? No. Especially with the entire unnecessary fight with Ryuji and Lady Ann simping. But he made sense in the plot. (I can't say that about Teddie but oh well). So in my opinion, mascots aren't too bad. But I guess since they've been used in the last 2 persona games, persona 6 not having one could be refreshing.
Your other points made sense and I really resonate with being able to make your own story / adventure in the persona world without caring too much about completionism. The game just needs to be built around that, as you said.
I get what you mean, I like Morgana a lot more than Teddie for similar reasons… (and his English VA being one of my favorites doesn’t hurt haha).
While I’d prefer 6 to refrain from including one, I’d also be interested in seeing one done in a manner that brings the positive vibes and themes you highlighted while leaving the one note fan service type of stuff by the wayside.
And yeah, I’d love go into a Persona game with the feeling that it’s okay if I don’t say every perfect answer. I’m really glad it resonated with you.
Could I ask if there were any of the 6 features I mentioned that I wasn’t able to make a good case for?
@@Plexicraft tbf aigis is the mascot of p3
@@Izzyisneon I’ve heard that before but it’s never really connected for me.
Might be because Koromaru may be splitting that duty with her.
Another reason might be that although she does bring a certain goofiness to situations, she brings just as much if not more interesting plot concepts where both Teddie and Morgana’s backstories kinda blend together to me.
The last thing is that while she does come as a figurine in special editions, she’s not really a character that would be made into a plushie or stuffed animal.
Maybe my idea of mascots is too restrictive but, if Aigis is the mascot, I hope the next persona mascot is more like her than the others :)
(for feature 1) i dont agree that suggestion tactics should be the only option - i just dont think it really makes sense to do that and it feels to me like a needlessly frustrating mechanic that takes away from the player's strategic decision-making ability - HOWEVER, i can easily see such a restriction being part of a specific difficulty setting or challenge mode, probably one that you can't switch away from like merciless. that would be very cool imo.
@@nac157 Yeah, that’s a solid way to handle it.
Honestly, even I wouldn’t want it to be the only way to play unless they expanded upon the AI to make the trade off worth it. :)
Persona 4 is my favorite so I love the mascot character or at least teddie
Hey fair enough, people like different things. My partner loves Teddie but he just didn’t connect with me like he does for some. :)
I likely went a bit too hard on him but I just find mascots distracting for the reasons I went over. Is Teddie you favorite character in 4? I really loved Dojima.
The thing about the dungeons is a false equivalence. Going to the dungeon takes more strategy, like having full control over your party members in Persona. And plus, I would always forget to switch tactics at the start of each of my turns anyway if I was forced to play that way. At that point I might as well turn the difficulty down to Peaceful & Select the Rush/Auto-Battle Option since it doesn’t matter what I do anyway, and this is guarantied to make me win each fight & get to the end of the game. Look I know I’m being kind of unreasonable right now, but this would genuinely be my solution to the “No Control Over Party Members” thing. This is an option I can pick in any Persona game that makes it infinitely easier, does anyone do it that way? No. Persona isn’t an online game, and just like I believe you should have the choice to play the games the way you like, by having to use the tactics menu, I believe people like me should be able to take control over the party members.
I definitely understand where you’re coming from. I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all, my wish for the first one is a huge ask with a ton of caveats.
And I didn’t mean to suggest that going to the dungeon is the same difficulty or even similar in terms of strategy as the social sim aspect.
I was just trying to show how it feels odd that outside of the dungeons, the characters have cool personalities and priorities that I’d like to see expressed while they fight instead of them simply obeying the leader.
Simply moving the og persona 3 party AI into 6 wouldn’t work for me either, it would need to be much smarter. How dynamic it could be is what interests me most. But I totally respect you wanting to enjoy the strategic aspects of controlling the team.
Did any of the other 5 resonate with you?
@@Plexicraft Yea, you cooked with literally everything else on my opinion.
@@DynamiteRyper Hey thanks for that, especially for hearing everything out :D
With the implementation of technicals in p5, it's very unlikely they return to the AI teammates. Still, the themes of p6 can create a situation, there you can get full access to the teammate only after 2-nd or 3-rd confidant tier.
Yeah, honestly I don’t think any of these will be in Persona 6 (they’re just sort of my kooky wishlist) but hopefully we will continue have social links with all of our party members :)
Is there anything you’re hoping to see feature wise in Persona 6?
@@PlexicraftI liked persona 2 fusion spells
@@MaddRoxYu Oh nice choice! I’d love to see party members combine forces for spells like that again :D
@@Plexicrafti liked the innate persona traits from persona 5 royal, it made each persona feel just a bit more unique, more so than unique skills did, and has another layer of customisation that I liked
@@damiansaturday6788 Yeah little details in being able to have a bit more customization really help!
I want the reaper to follow us in persona 6
I’m listening… ;)
Personally my thoughts amount to "no" on the first one and "neutral" on all the rest. To be a bit more specific:
1. I'm just not convinced of the benefits of AI party members. I don't find it that "immersive" to have the party members act on their own. What I found "immersive" were things like what they could do during combat, how they animated, how they sounded, etc.
2. I've only played P3P and Reload, so maybe I don't know how bad fatigue was, but I don't see much of a problem. I've only ever tried doing all of a dungeon in one visit in Reload and after I beat it, I'm not doing it again. I just didn't find it fun to do.
3. Isn't this already the case most of the time? Maybe it's because Reload is still fresh in the mind, but aren't you incentivized to give the answer the other person wants to hear rather than what they need to hear?
4. The cynical side of my mind says Atlus will just make a human character act like the mascot instead. I really hope I'm wrong.
5. So long as the super boss(es) are optional I don't mind.
6. I never get them all the first time anyway so I wouldn't feel the difference.
Hey thanks for going into detail on all these. 1 makes sense to me seeing as what immerses you is different. It’s such a subjective thing right?
As for 3, I think “being a yes man” is a criticism P3 receives more often than others in the series and while you’re right, that other games do need you to kind of nod along with other SLs in 4 and 5. I feel as we moved away from 3 it became more about choosing the “Paragon” answer and less about making an intuitive and pragmatic decision.
And that’s a good note on 4; I wouldn’t mind if we get a character like Aigis but I’m just hoping whoever it is acts more like her than they do like Teddie. He was just very distracting to me.
5 and 6, definitely.
Do you have a fav Persona game?
12:47 IS REAL!!!!!
Haha thanks, I’m really glad it resonated with you :)
I wouldn't buy P6 if i couldn't have direct control as an option I hate not having control with how difficult the bosses could be I will admit I like Miitopia because it's entire game is built around it and the Enemies were all really easy again unlike persona
And for fatigue the system you said wouldn't be bad if it weren't in games that require you to manage your time and hang out with people in one year which with the amount of people you need to hang out with you really need all the time you can get and fatigue honestly hurts the experience more than helps boost it preventing you from doing things because your character is tired is dumb it might insentivise you to explore more but is makes it so by the end of the game you have 2-3 social links maxed others not even started and 1-2 halfway which is not good when the game is about making bonds and friendships to become stronger
I definitely get where you’re coming from about party control. It’s pretty polarizing!
As for the fatigue system, I think it definitely would need that positive reinforcement style tweak I was talking about for me to really enjoy it, just some to but to give you some extrinsic motivation to break up the “1 day in dungeon per cycle” paradigm :)
#1: No, I don't think permanent non Controllable Party Members is a good idea, it's less of a matter of immersion than gameplay. I want the game to be hard because of challenging fights, not because of an unpredictable party.
#2: I don't mind it coming back if it gets balanced, in my playthrough of FES I ended up using it as a "timer" only going to Tartarus when my party is at a good status to good
3: I guess? Depends on the themes of P6 and main character personality ( I know that the MC is supposed to be a self insert, but their dialogue kinda shows that Ex: P3 protagonists)
#4: nah not really they had created some of the most endearing moments in the franchise and would be kinda a bummer we don't get one.
5: I would like challenging but flexible fights, Example: Matador in SMT:3, the most common way I've seen people beat him is to GRIND up to lv18 (I think I don't remember) to get Usume. But In my opinion all you really need is a nozuchi, wind nagatama, A healer like Pixie, and a demon with buffs. I always really like the gameplay design philosophy of SMT and wish we get it more on persona.
6#: same I agree
Really appreciate you going into detail regarding your reasoning. Makes it very clear where you’re coming from and I totally get each perspective.
I get what you mean about things being unpredictable in your party being a turn off. My pipe dream version would be that they would seem unpredictable but be decently easy to intuit so you could plan around their archetypes / behaviors / “personas” but have enough surprise to make hype filled moments.
Definitely a refreshing take on 4. I just would prefer someone like Aigis over someone like Teddie to fill that role.
Would definitely love to see some SMT style uber bosses in Persona! Nocturne is such a vibe :)
@@Plexicraft Hey man, you do you! I've been thinking about the 2nd suggestion, and after though yeah that is actually a pretty good suggestion! Often times in P5/P4G people speedrun the palace to do the s.l. which leads to some weird yet funny moments like futaba sleeping through out summer. Adding fatigue back makes sense and adds more depth to the gameplay. About #5 I often make jokes with some friends who are also into persona but not so much SMT about how " They should make a Persona but with the Press Turn System to make Persona Perfect" Luckily Metaphor Refantazio looks to be an idea that came to reality and I am soooo hyped!!
FACTS!!! The game is actually the one that prevents you from going out in p5. Dont blame morgana 💀
Haha I know! Little stray catching strays :/
Teddie is a great character in my opinion who explores the games themes really well
I don’t think he’s all bad, I prefer Morgana to him (and Aigis to Morgana) but I was interested him his story during 4. I just didn’t enjoy the his type of humor very much but my partner absolutely loved it haha
I get why og persona fans might want to only use the main character, but in 2024, no turn base game should be limited to only controlling ur main character. It just isn’t fun and an outdated concept/gameplay mechanic in my opinion
I get what you mean and I wouldn’t want to have zero party control if the AI changes I mentioned weren’t included with it.
I know most people wouldn’t want to only control the MC even with those changes but I guess that’s what gets it included in this video haha
How did you feel about the other 5 and their reasoning?
I don't think the option to set people to direct commands has 'ruined' later persona games and made them 'too easy'. The newer fans who prefer direct commands aren't any less deserving of being catered to than you are.
Hey, thanks for digging into the details!
Can you point out where you’re getting the quotes from so I can have some more context to address them properly?
My intent with this video was never to say that there was a correct way of making a Persona game, but instead to encourage people to challenge their own current thinking on aspects of the series that I feel are often misunderstood or under appreciated.
For example, I’d say most fans (new or old) prefer direct control in battle when you compare it to OG Persona 3 and FES’s wonky AI…
…but I feel there is some untapped potential there in party AI that could be really exciting to see expanded upon!
I don’t think I’m going to convince everyone to accept my perspective on all of these or even most of them, but I think that’s what makes this sort of discussion fun.
We all find different aspects of this series fun and I really enjoy having convos like these where someone can show me a facet I haven’t thought of that I can then have more appreciation for or I can do likewise for them :)
Yeah, no. The first one already lost me. If you're a party leader and your teammate does some idiotic shit in the dungeon, do you not tell them off? Do you then just let Mitsuru keep spamming Marin Karin? If you say yes, then Persona 3 already failed when it comes to immersion.
Hey fair enough, thanks for checking out the explanation. It’s the longest one and for good reason, it’s quite a drastic change.
I just enjoy the suspense and would love to see my party members personalities shown in battle.
Did you play the og persona 3 or Fes by chance?
@@Plexicraft Portable, but I did play my friend's copy of FES once. I was deeply frustrated by Mitsuru, who is my absolute favourite character in P3P. I ended up giving him back the controller out of sheer frustration at my teammates' incompetence halfway through the Tartarus section open to him at the time.
@@MonkeBrain07 Haha I definitely recall that pain! My wish for the battle system change wouldn’t be fulfilled unless the party AI got an overhaul and actually could hold their own because you’re totally right: if characters as experienced as Mitsuru are acting like that, the immersion is lost.
I suffered through it back in the day by maxing out her moves and then overwriting Marin Karin but getting there was rough.
It stuck with me though and I was like, “man, I’d really enjoy it if it felt more like those moments when my team had my back and expressed themselves in battle but didn’t just try to status effect something they know is immune while I sit here with 3 hp!”
@@Plexicraft I mean, I'd be down if there's an actual system overhaul for the AI, but Atlus clearly took notes at how fans HATED the AI in P3. Hell, they even made controllable party members a fucking selling point in P4's marketing. I simply don't have faith that Atlus would be willing to risk alienating the majority of the fanbase for an admittedly improved gaming experience. A good half way compromise is to just take the AI from P3, build upon it to make it at least make more sense, and still let us control party members like in P4 and 5.
@@MonkeBrain07 Totally get where you’re coming from. I’m just dreaming of a party AI that reflects how cool the characters are in the story haha
Thought this video was gonna annoy me
Every point is one I agree with
Whoa 6 for 6! Twins :D
What’s your favorite persona game?
Is it also P3 FES?
@@Plexicraft Yesssss, Persona 3 FES is my favourite
@@cogasssss Woo, 7 for 7!