This isn’t about whether the Afghan government was going to collapse or not… This is about leaving in the worst way possible… not to mention, leaving billions of dollars of guns, technology, and material behind.
@@edgeldine3499but it WAS stuff that the taliban largely didn’t have access to before that either. Now they do. Even if they can’t maintain 95% of it. That remaining 5% makes them FAR more dangerous than they were
What do you think they should have done to make the pull out from Afghanistan different? I don’t know much about what they did other than leave a lot of stuff behind.
Hold the Taliban to the terms agreed to in the withdrawal agreement. They violated them as soon as the agreement was signed and we still left as if they had stuck to it
Exercise your critical thinking, and deductive reasoning regularly. Peter often has many helpful perspectives. He is completely, dramatically, politically, and unfortunately deadly wrong on Afghanistan. It’s unfortunate his political musings are giving the president and the administration the pass on an unacceptable and avoidable event.
Um.... I'm pretty sure leaving billions in weapons and helicopters, the Abby Gate suicide bombing with 13 service members killed and the appearance of us is fleeing that looked like the last helicopter out out of Sigon could have gone a tad better, but he seems to think it was inevitable.
@@jeffrice3044true, but the appearance in how we left has caused EVERY ally the US has today to have to ask themselves that same question. “Will the US stick to its promises?”
@@frankzappa9853 how many US troops were in Afghanistan before the order came down to leave.. we had been withdrawing for years technically. The US had.. what.. less than a thousand military personnel there before leaving. They mostly acted as advisors.
@@edgeldine3499 the US abandoned Bagram Airbase in the middle of the night without even telling the Afghanistan government. we left like thieves and we had no reason to do so either that's the biggest slap in the face. We also abandoned our allies we spent twenty years training as well as American citizens The Biden withdrawal was utter chaos so much so he should be brought up on charges of treason for it. also to answer your question I believe the number of American personnel was 2500.
@@jeffrice3044leaving out the terms and conditions that both parties agreed to that the current administration could have held them to. Instead they chose to just leave
We needed to leave after the bin laden killing. The Afghans had no intention for nationhood. When I was there in 2014, every Bagram resident had plans to rush the airbase and hop the next plane to the US.
So you understand that victory was not possible, and that an Afghan government army would have never lasted under any cicrumstances without US boots on the ground. What happened was inevitable
@@persperspersp2866 When were you there??? where in what role??? The war was won in 2003 yes corruption lost the war but it was our corruption foremost. In ten year there I only met 5 people who understood the place. Although I never knew Eric Prince I have been in the same room a few times. He is the only person who actually knows what he is talking about. Where do you get your information when your repeating this guy? Trump had no casualties, that plan was 2500 special operators and air support. Was that exit inevitable??? I was a security supervisor at the Embassy for six years, the only person ever car bombed on duty. Tell me what you know about a proper NEO evacuation plan is conducted? Your statement should be victory under the US State Dept is not possible.
LOL, he usually doesn't, but you have to have a more than average understanding on the subject to see it and that is rare. However, he is fun to listen to.
Trump planned it my dude. He negotiated directly with the taliban and didnt include the afghani government. Biden chose to continue with the plan that trump set up to exit the way they carried out.
How so? The date and the limited personnel was determined by the prior administration. Should we have dropped 1000's more US troops to get our Humvee's and trailers out?! It went smoothly until there was a suicide bomber. We got 100's of thousands out.
Is this guy for real? His points arent incorrect, but they're also obvious and in NO way excuses biden. "We could have gotten out better MAYBE" . Unreal. Can't believe Jack went along with that.
@@hanzo3188 The death of any individual is always a tragedy in its own way but if you can’t understand that there are even bigger things than one individual’s death, you probably aren’t in the right place.
@@adamredwine774 Zeihan chose Neoliberal allegiances shortly after J6, and all of his analyses are now told slant. He's still useful, but has to be read with a critical eye. And he's betting his "American disengagement" analysis will hold in perpetuity - linear projections are always foolish.
Has anybody told Jack Carr that he's using a fake plane in his thumbnail? Zoom into the windows and engines and see just how fake it is. Youd think a military dude would pick that up right away!
I recommend watching Mike Pompeo's interviews where he talks about Afghanistan and his role. He said Trump also wanted to leave but all the departments were telling him it would unfold exactly like it did. So Trump took the decision to stay because everyone knew it would be a disaster if they just abruptly left. Mike Pompeo says he does not know if Trump would end up fleeing Biden style, but he hadn't during his term (even though he really wanted to leave Afghanistan) and most importantly of all, it literally surprised nobody that it unfolded the way it did and was taken as a politically calculated move by Biden (not a national security one). He also talked about how he would deal with the Taliban whenever they broke their agreements. The point is, it could have been handled much better with better leadership.
The book, 'Only The Dead', came out in May 2023 so this had to have been recorded prior to May of 2023. "Trump did want to pull out, but didn't want to deal with the day of the pullout." "We could argue, could we have done it better? Maybe..." You think? The US military left Bagram Airfield in the dead of night without notifying the Afghans. General Asadullah Kohistani told the BBC that the US left Bagram at 03:00 local time on Friday, and that the Afghan military found out hours later. Bagram also contained a prison, and there were up to 5,000 Taliban prisoners left in the facility. We left behind about 3.5 million items and the cost of those items. 13 U.S. troops killed. But that's ok, we could argue it could have been done better. GIVE ME A BREAK. Thank you JackCarrUSA, you have saved me some money. I was going to purchase Peter Zeihan book 'The End of The World Is Just The Beginning,' but not now.
Yeah! Tim Kennedy can solve the worlds problems! Looks at world: well, um, no he can’t. But, he can talk. Wait, thats what Peter and Jack did in this interview. Talk, you know, a discussion.
Tim Kennedy is awesome, but he's not a big picture geopolitical analyst. Totally different skill set. If you only want tactical, you might not listen to Peter.
When was this recorded? America energy independent? No troops in the area? Houthi’s attacking American war ships? American troops being sent to Israel? Americans soldiers killed in Jordan?
He refers to Only the Dead as coming out in May, which would have been May of 2023. Sometime last spring, I guess? Well before the events of 10/7, at any rate
The US is completely energy independent...and we are a net exporter. I know it seems hard to believe with a Democrat in the White House, but it's completely true.
It is a massive error when you leave a far more capable enemy than when you first arrived. Even if only 5% still works in 10 years that’s is a far more dangerous enemy that STILL wants to kill you
@@aidan11162 Seeing as how Al Q*ada doesn't operate or train there anymore, I think your analysis might need a bit more thought. Taliban is a threat to Afghans, no doubt.
I know I'm in a small minority with this opinion, but leaving Afghanistan was a bad idea. There were no good options. The three bad ones were a) ramp up commitment such that the entire country really was under NATO/Western control (worst option, probably unachievable, and even if successful, not necessarily a worthwhile goal relative to cost), b) bug out as we did (second worst), and c) indefinitely stay in Afghanistan much as we had already been doing for the past several years, potentially for multiple decades. Obviously not a great solution either, but not as bad as the others. Minimal ground combat footprint, providing air/artillery/intel/spec-ops support to the Afghan military and diplomatic/aid assist to the admittedly sketchy Afghan government. Again, this would not have been a satisfactory or attractive end-state, not least because it would not have really been much of an "end-state" at all. But it would have been better than what we have now: an Afghanistan once again wholly under Taliban control, essentially pre-9/11 "status quo ante".
Peter isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Yes the withdraw was necessary but not the way it was handled. Case in point. The Soviet withdraw. They left in an orderly fashion and didn't leave any weapons behind. Also, we trained the Afghan Army to fight with air support. We needed to continue working toward leaving only an air arm in place to proved support when need.
Giving up Bagram Airbase by sneaking out in the middle of the night (leaving _all_ that gear) was a colossal mistake. You give up the only secure airfield in the country. Because of that, the only airport remaining is quickly in the hands of the Taliban, who decide who gets on the planes and which planes can leave. That's not an "oopsie." That's not an "oh well it was gonna happen anyway." Nope. No self-deleting bomber -- who deleted himself and 13 US service members -- is going to get anywhere near as close at Bagram Airbase as he did in the wide open unsecured international airport. I love your stuff, Peter. You da man on international transport, manufacturing/industrial needs, processes, inputs and outputs. You da man on demographics and geopolitics. Yet it appears you are turning your eyes away from the particulars of *how* we exited Afghanistan. Details matter. Downplaying the granular detail of how badly it went is willful blindness to how fvcked up the decision making process was to allow that to happen. A date-driven criterion of getting out by X-date, vs getting out as X-conditions are met is willful decision making focused on political optics. (The X-conditions had a huge stick behind them BTW. A stick the Taliban respected since they had avoided deleting Americans for 18 months previously.) Think about it, giving up the only US-secured airfield in the country as a way to _start_ your withdrawal .... ? (What in the actual fvck.)
His interpretation of the exit out of Afghanistan is horrible, no doubt. That doesn't make him a Democrat stooge. Have you heard him talk about green energy? Or European defense policy? Have you actually read his books? Even one of his books? I didn't think so. Open your mind to the nuance that is the world, and you'll be smarter for it.
Staying there 20 years was a complete disaster. They collapsed in weeks!! One good thing trump did was set a deadline to get out. One good thing Buden did, was stick to it.
Biden had the stones to actually do it...fully knowing he would take massive shit about it. It was the right call. That's what leaders do. Other "leaders" take credit for everything good and blame others for everything bad.
We needed to leave but the manner in which we did it couldn't have been more wrong.
Oh…. It definitely could have been worse
It was an utter disgrace.
@@adamredwine774 It could have been handled like we knew what we were doing. Instead, it looked like the Three Stooges planned it.
Our exit plan had all the earmarks of one that had been designed and executed by the Three Stooges.
@@adamredwine774 explain that
When the US military cannot perform a staged retreat and secure an airfield then yes our withdrawal was a failure.
Sorry Pete... big disagreement that it had to happen that way.
This isn’t about whether the Afghan government was going to collapse or not… This is about leaving in the worst way possible… not to mention, leaving billions of dollars of guns, technology, and material behind.
What tech? Nothing that China and Russia didn't already have access to.
@@edgeldine3499but it WAS stuff that the taliban largely didn’t have access to before that either. Now they do. Even if they can’t maintain 95% of it. That remaining 5% makes them FAR more dangerous than they were
Leaving in the worst way? Was there a way to leave in a good way? You’re being kicked out of a country in defeat, did you want a parade?
The entire officer corps pencil whipped the last decade of reports to hide their failure.
@@Maimonides19A well managed withdrawal was within reach but Biden turned it over to State.
Two of my favorite commentators talking about where I live. Yay!
What do you think they should have done to make the pull out from Afghanistan different? I don’t know much about what they did other than leave a lot of stuff behind.
Hold the Taliban to the terms agreed to in the withdrawal agreement. They violated them as soon as the agreement was signed and we still left as if they had stuck to it
Exercise your critical thinking, and deductive reasoning regularly. Peter often has many helpful perspectives. He is completely, dramatically, politically, and unfortunately deadly wrong on Afghanistan. It’s unfortunate his political musings are giving the president and the administration the pass on an unacceptable and avoidable event.
Would be nice if you can have an update post 07 Oct events. And the red sea closing.
Why release a dated video? Most of the US carriers are in the ME now
Um.... I'm pretty sure leaving billions in weapons and helicopters, the Abby Gate suicide bombing with 13 service members killed and the appearance of us is fleeing that looked like the last helicopter out out of Sigon could have gone a tad better, but he seems to think it was inevitable.
it was and the look of pulling out is why other Presidents kept kicking the can down the road.
@@jeffrice3044true, but the appearance in how we left has caused EVERY ally the US has today to have to ask themselves that same question. “Will the US stick to its promises?”
Exactly right, jeffrice
People say we should've left in a better way but fail to elaborate on how we could've some so. All I hear is armchair strategy.
Held Bagram airbase, supported the Afghanistan army we spent 20 years creating, started the withdrawal 9 months earlier instead of the night before.
@@frankzappa9853 how many US troops were in Afghanistan before the order came down to leave.. we had been withdrawing for years technically.
The US had.. what.. less than a thousand military personnel there before leaving. They mostly acted as advisors.
@@edgeldine3499 the US abandoned Bagram Airbase in the middle of the night without even telling the Afghanistan government. we left like thieves and we had no reason to do so either that's the biggest slap in the face. We also abandoned our allies we spent twenty years training as well as American citizens
The Biden withdrawal was utter chaos so much so he should be brought up on charges of treason for it.
also to answer your question I believe the number of American personnel was 2500.
@@edgeldine3499 Yep, and the date of withdrawal and the personnel were decided by the prior administration.
@@jeffrice3044leaving out the terms and conditions that both parties agreed to that the current administration could have held them to. Instead they chose to just leave
Why doesn't Zeihan ever refer to the US activities around the world in the same way he talks about Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.?
Read his books he does
We needed to leave after the bin laden killing. The Afghans had no intention for nationhood. When I was there in 2014, every Bagram resident had plans to rush the airbase and hop the next plane to the US.
I was in Afghanistan 86 months, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Say more please...?
So you understand that victory was not possible, and that an Afghan government army would have never lasted under any cicrumstances without US boots on the ground. What happened was inevitable
@@persperspersp2866 When were you there??? where in what role??? The war was won in 2003 yes corruption lost the war but it was our corruption foremost. In ten year there I only met 5 people who understood the place. Although I never knew Eric Prince I have been in the same room a few times. He is the only person who actually knows what he is talking about. Where do you get your information when your repeating this guy?
Trump had no casualties, that plan was 2500 special operators and air support. Was that exit inevitable??? I was a security supervisor at the Embassy for six years, the only person ever car bombed on duty. Tell me what you know about a proper NEO evacuation plan is conducted? Your statement should be victory under the US State Dept is not possible.
LOL, he usually doesn't, but you have to have a more than average understanding on the subject to see it and that is rare. However, he is fun to listen to.
Can you be specific? I'm listening.
No, the exit was a complete disaster.
This should be edited.
Trump planned it my dude. He negotiated directly with the taliban and didnt include the afghani government. Biden chose to continue with the plan that trump set up to exit the way they carried out.
How so? The date and the limited personnel was determined by the prior administration. Should we have dropped 1000's more US troops to get our Humvee's and trailers out?! It went smoothly until there was a suicide bomber. We got 100's of thousands out.
But still good we left
How do you propose we should have done it?
Is this guy for real? His points arent incorrect, but they're also obvious and in NO way excuses biden. "We could have gotten out better MAYBE" . Unreal. Can't believe Jack went along with that.
Zeihan is a big picture guy. He’s not interested in little things like which president is blamed for some specific detail.
@@adamredwine774 "little things " You have a lot of nerve. Tell that to the families.
The original commenter reply is so cringe as the kids say, let us invoke the families because we disagree about a online discussion. Really gross.
@@hanzo3188 The death of any individual is always a tragedy in its own way but if you can’t understand that there are even bigger things than one individual’s death, you probably aren’t in the right place.
@@adamredwine774 Zeihan chose Neoliberal allegiances shortly after J6, and all of his analyses are now told slant. He's still useful, but has to be read with a critical eye. And he's betting his "American disengagement" analysis will hold in perpetuity - linear projections are always foolish.
Peter loves hearing the sound of his own voice . . .
Not unlike you posting a comment.
@@jeffrice3044 That's fair, and right back at you.
Has anybody told Jack Carr that he's using a fake plane in his thumbnail? Zoom into the windows and engines and see just how fake it is. Youd think a military dude would pick that up right away!
“That’s a bold move, Cotton…” 🤡
Trump was planning on pulling out in May. 4 months earlier. So what was his plan?
Exactly....he didn't have the stones to actually do it.
I recommend watching Mike Pompeo's interviews where he talks about Afghanistan and his role. He said Trump also wanted to leave but all the departments were telling him it would unfold exactly like it did. So Trump took the decision to stay because everyone knew it would be a disaster if they just abruptly left.
Mike Pompeo says he does not know if Trump would end up fleeing Biden style, but he hadn't during his term (even though he really wanted to leave Afghanistan) and most importantly of all, it literally surprised nobody that it unfolded the way it did and was taken as a politically calculated move by Biden (not a national security one).
He also talked about how he would deal with the Taliban whenever they broke their agreements. The point is, it could have been handled much better with better leadership.
Did you see the lone survivor ?
I hope this clip is not the lone survivor of a full-length Peter Zeihan interview
Peter is like watching cnn. Worst guest to have on
Cry
Cope
Seethe
Yet you watched, so.....
@ no I don’t watch….
The book, 'Only The Dead', came out in May 2023 so this had to have been recorded prior to May of 2023.
"Trump did want to pull out, but didn't want to deal with the day of the pullout." "We could argue, could we have done it better? Maybe..."
You think?
The US military left Bagram Airfield in the dead of night without notifying the Afghans. General Asadullah Kohistani told the BBC that the US left Bagram at 03:00 local time on Friday, and that the Afghan military found out hours later. Bagram also contained a prison, and there were up to 5,000 Taliban prisoners left in the facility. We left behind about 3.5 million items and the cost of those items. 13 U.S. troops killed. But that's ok, we could argue it could have been done better. GIVE ME A BREAK.
Thank you JackCarrUSA, you have saved me some money. I was going to purchase Peter Zeihan book 'The End of The World Is Just The Beginning,' but not now.
I was in Afghanistan 86 months, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Just get Tim Kennedy on. Someone who’s actually been down range & not some theorist
Tim Kennedy ….. bruh
Yeah! Tim Kennedy can solve the worlds problems! Looks at world: well, um, no he can’t. But, he can talk. Wait, thats what Peter and Jack did in this interview. Talk, you know, a discussion.
Tim Kennedy is awesome, but he's not a big picture geopolitical analyst. Totally different skill set. If you only want tactical, you might not listen to Peter.
That's an inflatable plane how can you lot not see that what the hell
When was this recorded? America energy independent? No troops in the area? Houthi’s attacking American war ships? American troops being sent to Israel? Americans soldiers killed in Jordan?
He refers to Only the Dead as coming out in May, which would have been May of 2023. Sometime last spring, I guess? Well before the events of 10/7, at any rate
The US is completely energy independent...and we are a net exporter. I know it seems hard to believe with a Democrat in the White House, but it's completely true.
Shannon was a brave, strong and beautiful lady , please invite Joe Kent
I am sorry that Joe Kent lost his wife
Peter does see the large picture. Leaving some jeeps behind is a rounding error compared to how much money we spend on the military.
It is a massive error when you leave a far more capable enemy than when you first arrived. Even if only 5% still works in 10 years that’s is a far more dangerous enemy that STILL wants to kill you
@@aidan11162 Seeing as how Al Q*ada doesn't operate or train there anymore, I think your analysis might need a bit more thought. Taliban is a threat to Afghans, no doubt.
If anybody recalls the withdrawal from Saigon knows the leaving Afghanistan was going to be a shit show too.
Peter is a total hack.
This video is obviously at least a year old. So far, none of this has come to pass.
I’d love to see this guy explain why he thinks our afghan withdrawal couldn’t have been better? You gotta be fook’n kidding bud!
Thsts not what he said
And your solution would have been what exactly?
I know I'm in a small minority with this opinion, but leaving Afghanistan was a bad idea. There were no good options. The three bad ones were a) ramp up commitment such that the entire country really was under NATO/Western control (worst option, probably unachievable, and even if successful, not necessarily a worthwhile goal relative to cost), b) bug out as we did (second worst), and c) indefinitely stay in Afghanistan much as we had already been doing for the past several years, potentially for multiple decades. Obviously not a great solution either, but not as bad as the others. Minimal ground combat footprint, providing air/artillery/intel/spec-ops support to the Afghan military and diplomatic/aid assist to the admittedly sketchy Afghan government. Again, this would not have been a satisfactory or attractive end-state, not least because it would not have really been much of an "end-state" at all. But it would have been better than what we have now: an Afghanistan once again wholly under Taliban control, essentially pre-9/11 "status quo ante".
Ukraine may not have happened at all without that afghan withdrawal shit show.
Peter is wrong. The Afghan exit caused the Russian reaction to invade Western Ukraine.
The withdrawal was a Chinese fire drill…..a 5th grader could have managed a less chaotic withdrawal..
It took decades to win the cold war. Perhaps what we needed was patience.
Peter isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Yes the withdraw was necessary but not the way it was handled. Case in point. The Soviet withdraw. They left in an orderly fashion and didn't leave any weapons behind. Also, we trained the Afghan Army to fight with air support. We needed to continue working toward leaving only an air arm in place to proved support when need.
Giving up Bagram Airbase by sneaking out in the middle of the night (leaving _all_ that gear) was a colossal mistake. You give up the only secure airfield in the country. Because of that, the only airport remaining is quickly in the hands of the Taliban, who decide who gets on the planes and which planes can leave. That's not an "oopsie." That's not an "oh well it was gonna happen anyway."
Nope.
No self-deleting bomber -- who deleted himself and 13 US service members -- is going to get anywhere near as close at Bagram Airbase as he did in the wide open unsecured international airport.
I love your stuff, Peter. You da man on international transport, manufacturing/industrial needs, processes, inputs and outputs. You da man on demographics and geopolitics.
Yet it appears you are turning your eyes away from the particulars of *how* we exited Afghanistan. Details matter.
Downplaying the granular detail of how badly it went is willful blindness to how fvcked up the decision making process was to allow that to happen. A date-driven criterion of getting out by X-date, vs getting out as X-conditions are met is willful decision making focused on political optics. (The X-conditions had a huge stick behind them BTW. A stick the Taliban respected since they had avoided deleting Americans for 18 months previously.)
Think about it, giving up the only US-secured airfield in the country as a way to _start_ your withdrawal .... ? (What in the actual fvck.)
So what's your solution then? Easy to complain, but how would you leave? Or would we just have us tay in perpetuity?
This guy Zeihan is bought and paid for. He is little more than a democrat activist. Listen to the democrat talking points.
His interpretation of the exit out of Afghanistan is horrible, no doubt. That doesn't make him a Democrat stooge. Have you heard him talk about green energy? Or European defense policy? Have you actually read his books? Even one of his books? I didn't think so. Open your mind to the nuance that is the world, and you'll be smarter for it.
Not even close. Have you read his books? He's a geopolitical analyst, not a politician. He is critical of ALL politicians.
I’d like someone to go back and see how many things PZ has actually been correct about.
he disguises it but he is a lefty, he is not going to take Biden to task.
But not the way it was done
Staying there 20 years was a complete disaster. They collapsed in weeks!!
One good thing trump did was set a deadline to get out.
One good thing Buden did, was stick to it.
Biden had the stones to actually do it...fully knowing he would take massive shit about it. It was the right call. That's what leaders do. Other "leaders" take credit for everything good and blame others for everything bad.
Peter must get eye strain - from seeing the future.
The arrogance and self congratulations of that overly resourced pundit are bottomless.
inevitable yes
totally botched (so most
likely bought by enemies)? NO
Peter is wrong sometimes
Are you an agent for the US Government?
this guy is the opposite
of credibility... closing this now
but does he ever get to explaining
why aborting air power first
was "necessary"?
No maybe about, anybody could have done a better job
Incredibly stupid and sad!!
MAYBE? Loss all cred
Zeihan isn't as smart as he thinks
Can't wait to see your video explaining it all better.
Man, this is very informative! Thank you, Jack and Peter!
I was in Afghanistan 86 months, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
You know what would be interesting. If internet commenter and Peter had a discussion about this. You know, actually talked like adults.