We purchased a 2023 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW and absolutely love it. I was originally dead set on wanting an LTV Unity MB. We went to LTV rallies and toured everyone's rigs. I also toured other brand small class C's. I was hot on the LTV, that is until my neighbor drove up in a brand new Tiffin Wayfarer. I was intrigued but skeptical at first. But time after time I asked to see his Tiffin, I started to realize what a much more usable design the Wayfarer 25RW (as depicted in this video) is comparatively. The room inside this less than 26 foot RV is very impressive. I love the murphy bed separate from the living area. My wife is an early morning workout nut. When it is too cold outside, which is frequent in our full time winter travels, she does her crazy workouts in the Tiffin, while I stay comfortable (and lazy) in bed. Can't do that in the Unity MB. There is a very ample amount of storage inside and outside the Tiffin. The area above the cab affords a great amount of storage if you desire. The whole right wall aft of the kitchen is storage. There is massive storage even behind the TV in the living room and bedroom area. If you run out of room to put stuff, you are doing it wrong in any brand of small class C. The compressor fridge is absolutely mandatory to have an easy time maintaining constant temps.The cabinetry quality and materials used throughout the coach is above average. The couch is very usable. The problem is that Tiffin overstuffed the back cushions. Have those altered to be thinner and you have a very comfortable couch. Remove the cushions and you have a surprisingly comfortable single bed to take a nap or lay back and read with your feet up. I have not found the drop in the cab area to be of concern for me. I don't find myself walking back and forth in that area much at all. The shower is quite large and I don't feel flexing. Seems fairly solid to me. The bathroom has room to move around. You could practically have a square dance inside the rig with the bed up. It is just a very smart, very versatile design. The issues I have with the Wayfarer. 1) Yes , the OCC is low. I will not touch that hot potato of a subject. 2) The placement of the plug in for the coach power cord is just plain dumb. It just begs to get dragged on pavement coming out of certain driveways. Why not place it on the left side of the coach? 3) No ladder to get on the roof. I have a telescoping ladder to do that but I would rather have a built on ladder. 4) No west coast factory service. We are western USA type people and it is a pain to have to drive to Alabama to get the excellent factory service that Tiffin known for. The things Tiffin gets so right. 1). The customer service is absolutely amazing. Very responsive and very agreeable to get things fixed quickly and little hassle. 2). Quality of build (comparatively) is top notch but there are some shortcomings that are pervasive throughout the RV industry. It is just a very nice rig to own. 3) It's a great looking rig inside and out that gives an air of quality. 4) Much MUCH less expensive than the LTV's insanely inflated prices. 30% off retail is definitely attainable any day on the Wayfarer. 5). It's available TODAY, not 2 to 4 years from now. I love the LTV's so much. I think they are awesome rigs. But, much to my amazement, after obsessive research, I chose the Tiffin Wayfarer over the LTV. It just made sense but it was tough to swing me away at first. Now I realize I made a good choice. Love your videos! A big fan!
We just bought a 2023 Wayfarer 25 TW. The OCCC is 1020 pounds. We will improve on that a bit by changing to lithium batteries. Normally, it will just be one person and three small dogs in the motorhome so I believe we can make the OCCC work. Also, the OCCC includes a full tank of fuel and propane, not water. Fresh and waste water are counted as cargo, so you must always be mindful of the amount of fresh and waste water in your tanks with this OCCC.
@@Pagosa The 1020 is pretty low too. I will probably also pull out unnecessary cushions and tables too. I’ll see how it looks when I go get it weighed at the end of the month.
From a previous LTV Unity owner. Brandon, please compare apples to apples! The Wayfarer comes with Bigfoot Levelers standard, which adds ~200 lbs weight compared to the standard weight of the stabilizers of on the Leisure. This does partially attribute the lower OCC of the Tiffin. By the way, our 2021 Wayfarer RW OCC is higher at 950.
I have Equalizer levelers and a diesel gen and my OCCC is 1,502. Double the Wayfarer, so it can be done. But Tiffin doesn't have a good engineering thought process on this for some reason.
Of course I'm totally biased as an LTV Unity owner, but I still think it's the best RV. Always love seeing and hearing about other comparable options. Thanks for sharing your review.
We have a 2016 Unity CB and both of our closets have lights, so I'm surprised to hear this is not available in the newer models. Seems like a very simple and low cost but very desirable feature.
Thanks for calling out the OCCC. Tiffin isn't the only company that exceeds the weight limit. Unfortunately, the OCCC isn't published, as you have to look on the inside of the actual vehicle to see the OCCC.
The fresh water that is included in the total weight just transfers to the black and grey holding tanks, so no additional weight, empty your holding tanks before you fill up with fresh water, da..
Agree it's a good idea to dump the weight, but most don't heed the advice, so having extra carrying capacity is a good safety feature. That's one reason I recommend a Leisure Travel Van over a Wayfarer. Mine has an extra 800 pounds of OCCC over this Wayfarer.
The first year Tiffin marketed Class C's and saw the OCCC and ran. We own a Navion 24J fully loaded ( no auto level...adds 200 -300 lb). Our OCCC is 1,300lbs. Tiffin's design and engineering heritage is class A's. Culture is the hardest mindset to change and Tiffin proves that. Hiring Class C engineers and designers would solve their problem. Solid wood, solid countertops, and a host of other heavy but beautiful products Make a Tiffin a non-starter. As an engineer, I think about the load on the suspension system of one of these Tiffins because general public pays no attention and salesmen always play dumb about the OCCC.
What a shame. The Tiffin is such a nice unit. Can’t understand - management and engineering have to know the affect of such a low ccc but they market it anyways.
Hi, yes, LTV’s are nice RV, but my wife and I felt the Unity had too many issues after test driving it twice in 2020. If you are tall you can hit the low ceiling, yikes. LTV showers have elevated shower floor, allowing less headroom. We don’t always want to go to bed at the same time and the Wayfarer allows us that option with separate living and bedroom areas. Wayfarer has larger interior, higher ceiling, more kitchen space, nice 1-piece fiberglass shower that you do not have to step up to get into and a porcelain stool that is angled so when in use, your head is not up against the wall like in a Winnebago View which had poor fit and finish and their recliners do not work well, with No head support. The Wayfarer has the very best recliners, “electric”. Both View and LTV have their generator on the incorrect side, noisy and smelly generator on the side you sit out with awning. Wayfarer has more standard features. We like the black coach seats that match the black driving area interior, great seats, never had any issues with seat comfort. We’ve put 20,000 miles and 30 states traveled with our 2021 Wayfarer since it arrived, we’re very happy. Fun and safe travels to all.
Hi Brandon, we have a 25' Airstream trailer and a LT Unity MB. We bought our Airstream first, and then ordered a LT Unity in 2020. After waiting 2 years, we bought a 2015.5 Unity MB to just get started. Now we are ready to sell our Unity MB. Taking it to VanCity at the end of the April. It was a good step to take while waiting. Keep up the good work. We'll see you down the road.
My question is how can Tiffin get away with making an unsafe B plus. 😮 of course they will blame the consumer. It just shows its worth the wait in getting a LTV. Also Canadia has higher standards than the US. Keep safe, explore and have fun 🌲🚙🌲
Don't know how far your research went into the Wayfarer CCC but in my findings Tiffin calculates their CCC with full fuel, full water and two passengers while most manufacturers only add fuel. That makes the Wayfarer CCC a lot more when compared to the higher numbers of others.
I have a 22 25RW and I just checked the OCCC was 1070. Why would the range of weights be so different? I did have factory installed lithium batteries. extra solar panel and Dish Satellite
Thank you for the review there are Tiffin layouts that have a slide out with recliners or dinettes Leisure van only has a slide out for a bed everyone has different likes etc but we like our living area to have space and our sleeping area always available . But Leisure is good quality
I didn't like the MB couch either. Very vertical for me; 6' 4." It felt like a 2-seater dinette (that could be changed to the MB support) would be a better fit for the space considering they have those VERY nice theater chairs. Is this some new Sony camera content with the talking head shots?
Informative video. However, some of your LTV comparisons are model specific. In my 2019 Unity Corner Bed (2018 chassis) both wardrobes are lighted like the Tiffin. Also like the Tiffin, the 2 Corner Bed storage bays under the slide out are fixed to the chassis and do not extend with the slide out. I have put 80,000 miles on the LTV in 3 years and remain very happy with my choice.
I wish Tiffin would send some of their engineers to math refresher classes. We live near a Wayfarer dealer and are not far from Red Bay, AL. We really like the fit and finish and would love to buy an RV that we could take to the factory if significant repairs were needed. The ample storage space is sadly laughable given the absurdly low cargo carrying capacity. We really like the LTV Wonder FTB but the wait is ridicules. Odds are the model we like will be discontinued when our order slot comes up in 2026 or 2028. That or they’ll want $500,000 for it.
Carrying capacity has always been an issue with small RVs. Think of the Toyota partnership with motorhomes back in the 1970's. The Toyota Chinook and the Dolphin motorhome are examples. The problem is that the chassis manufacturerers don't think they sell enough of the stronger chassis to break even if they produce it. I don't know the numbers, so maybe that's the truth. Eventually it put Chinook (Toyota chassis) out of business in the 70's because they couldn't get enough chassis despite being weight conscious, while other manufacturer's were pumping out overweight rvs. And the industry has long overloaded chassis for decades. The more features they put in, the more it weighs.
so does the class b+ drive and park in town good? like a class b? we are thinking of trading again to one of these. Only down side is we have a granddaughter that likes to go some times, can three sleep ok in one? thanks also looking at pleasure-way fl
They do sell Tiffin Allegro in Australia, especially modified for Australia. Although the paintwork is great, virtually everything else does not work here. Wooden interiors are a non event here
I focus on the Class C, and Pleasure Way only makes Class B. At some point, I will do some videos on Class B and I'm sure Pleasure Way will make an appearance.
Nah. Don't count on fuel and water weights being already included.... Verify with manufacturer. If there is a wreck, no matter who was at fault, insurance companies are going to want to know weight in order to judge whether handling/braking could have been a problem for either party and, therefore, find a reason not to pay out.
We purchased a 2023 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW and absolutely love it. I was originally dead set on wanting an LTV Unity MB. We went to LTV rallies and toured everyone's rigs. I also toured other brand small class C's. I was hot on the LTV, that is until my neighbor drove up in a brand new Tiffin Wayfarer. I was intrigued but skeptical at first. But time after time I asked to see his Tiffin, I started to realize what a much more usable design the Wayfarer 25RW (as depicted in this video) is comparatively. The room inside this less than 26 foot RV is very impressive. I love the murphy bed separate from the living area. My wife is an early morning workout nut. When it is too cold outside, which is frequent in our full time winter travels, she does her crazy workouts in the Tiffin, while I stay comfortable (and lazy) in bed. Can't do that in the Unity MB. There is a very ample amount of storage inside and outside the Tiffin. The area above the cab affords a great amount of storage if you desire. The whole right wall aft of the kitchen is storage. There is massive storage even behind the TV in the living room and bedroom area. If you run out of room to put stuff, you are doing it wrong in any brand of small class C. The compressor fridge is absolutely mandatory to have an easy time maintaining constant temps.The cabinetry quality and materials used throughout the coach is above average.
The couch is very usable. The problem is that Tiffin overstuffed the back cushions. Have those altered to be thinner and you have a very comfortable couch. Remove the cushions and you have a surprisingly comfortable single bed to take a nap or lay back and read with your feet up. I have not found the drop in the cab area to be of concern for me. I don't find myself walking back and forth in that area much at all. The shower is quite large and I don't feel flexing. Seems fairly solid to me. The bathroom has room to move around. You could practically have a square dance inside the rig with the bed up. It is just a very smart, very versatile design.
The issues I have with the Wayfarer. 1) Yes , the OCC is low. I will not touch that hot potato of a subject. 2) The placement of the plug in for the coach power cord is just plain dumb. It just begs to get dragged on pavement coming out of certain driveways. Why not place it on the left side of the coach? 3) No ladder to get on the roof. I have a telescoping ladder to do that but I would rather have a built on ladder. 4) No west coast factory service. We are western USA type people and it is a pain to have to drive to Alabama to get the excellent factory service that Tiffin known for.
The things Tiffin gets so right. 1). The customer service is absolutely amazing. Very responsive and very agreeable to get things fixed quickly and little hassle. 2). Quality of build (comparatively) is top notch but there are some shortcomings that are pervasive throughout the RV industry. It is just a very nice rig to own. 3) It's a great looking rig inside and out that gives an air of quality. 4) Much MUCH less expensive than the LTV's insanely inflated prices. 30% off retail is definitely attainable any day on the Wayfarer. 5). It's available TODAY, not 2 to 4 years from now.
I love the LTV's so much. I think they are awesome rigs. But, much to my amazement, after obsessive research, I chose the Tiffin Wayfarer over the LTV. It just made sense but it was tough to swing me away at first. Now I realize I made a good choice.
Love your videos! A big fan!
but you are overweight and illegal driving your Tiffin! No wonder why you didn't want to touch this hot potato. You would incriminate yourself!
That's great, I was very impressed overall with the Tiffin, and as long as you are aware of the OCCC and don't mind accommodating, it's a great RV.
We love our 2020 25rw.
How do you know he is overweight and illegal? If he has not exceeded the CCC, he if not unsafe or illegal.@@gosman949
We just bought a 2023 Wayfarer 25 TW. The OCCC is 1020 pounds. We will improve on that a bit by changing to lithium batteries. Normally, it will just be one person and three small dogs in the motorhome so I believe we can make the OCCC work. Also, the OCCC includes a full tank of fuel and propane, not water. Fresh and waste water are counted as cargo, so you must always be mindful of the amount of fresh and waste water in your tanks with this OCCC.
Glad you got one over 1000, the one I saw was crazy low
@@Pagosa The 1020 is pretty low too. I will probably also pull out unnecessary cushions and tables too. I’ll see how it looks when I go get it weighed at the end of the month.
From a previous LTV Unity owner. Brandon, please compare apples to apples! The Wayfarer comes with Bigfoot Levelers standard, which adds ~200 lbs weight compared to the standard weight of the stabilizers of on the Leisure. This does partially attribute the lower OCC of the Tiffin. By the way, our 2021 Wayfarer RW OCC is higher at 950.
I have Equalizer levelers and a diesel gen and my OCCC is 1,502. Double the Wayfarer, so it can be done. But Tiffin doesn't have a good engineering thought process on this for some reason.
Of course I'm totally biased as an LTV Unity owner, but I still think it's the best RV. Always love seeing and hearing about other comparable options. Thanks for sharing your review.
Yes, I like seeing all of the small things LTV could do, like lights in the bays or closets!
We have a 2016 Unity CB and both of our closets have lights, so I'm surprised to hear this is not available in the newer models. Seems like a very simple and low cost but very desirable feature.
Thanks for calling out the OCCC. Tiffin isn't the only company that exceeds the weight limit. Unfortunately, the OCCC isn't published, as you have to look on the inside of the actual vehicle to see the OCCC.
Yep, many don't realize what a safety hazard they have rolling down the road
Brandon, please respond back on my comment about OCC of Tiffin Wayfarer regarding Big Foot levelers weight.
@@randyfeldman428 Yes, did. My LTV has Equalizer levelers and still has double the OCCC as the Wayfarer
The fresh water that is included in the total weight just transfers to the black and grey holding tanks, so no additional weight, empty your holding tanks before you fill up with fresh water, da..
Agree it's a good idea to dump the weight, but most don't heed the advice, so having extra carrying capacity is a good safety feature. That's one reason I recommend a Leisure Travel Van over a Wayfarer. Mine has an extra 800 pounds of OCCC over this Wayfarer.
The first year Tiffin marketed Class C's and saw the OCCC and ran. We own a Navion 24J fully loaded ( no auto level...adds 200 -300 lb). Our OCCC is 1,300lbs. Tiffin's design and engineering heritage is class A's. Culture is the hardest mindset to change and Tiffin proves that. Hiring Class C engineers and designers would solve their problem. Solid wood, solid countertops, and a host of other heavy but beautiful products Make a Tiffin a non-starter. As an engineer, I think about the load on the suspension system of one of these Tiffins because general public pays no attention and salesmen always play dumb about the OCCC.
Mercedes needs to come out with a more powerful engine. This engine is an embarrassment to any engineer!
It's a travesty that they create such a low OCCC
Another competitor to the LTV would be the jayco Melbourne. I looked at one at an RV show the quality seemed pretty good. You should do a video on it.
Yes, I"m a Jayco fan for their Fifth Wheels, so I'm sure it's great. Hope I run into one to film soon
What a shame. The Tiffin is such a nice unit. Can’t understand - management and engineering have to know the affect of such a low ccc but they market it anyways.
It’s really odd, and a safety issue
Not changing after all this time. They could figure out how to lose weight to improve the CCC but won't.
Those numbers are insane!!!!! Pass!!!!
Yep!
Hi, yes, LTV’s are nice RV, but my wife and I felt the Unity had too many issues after test driving it twice in 2020. If you are tall you can hit the low ceiling, yikes. LTV showers have elevated shower floor, allowing less headroom. We don’t always want to go to bed at the same time and the Wayfarer allows us that option with separate living and bedroom areas. Wayfarer has larger interior, higher ceiling, more kitchen space, nice 1-piece fiberglass shower that you do not have to step up to get into and a porcelain stool that is angled so when in use, your head is not up against the wall like in a Winnebago View which had poor fit and finish and their recliners do not work well, with No head support. The Wayfarer has the very best recliners, “electric”. Both View and LTV have their generator on the incorrect side, noisy and smelly generator on the side you sit out with awning. Wayfarer has more standard features. We like the black coach seats that match the black driving area interior, great seats, never had any issues with seat comfort. We’ve put 20,000 miles and 30 states traveled with our 2021 Wayfarer since it arrived, we’re very happy. Fun and safe travels to all.
That's great, LTVs certainly have less head room. And I'm thankful for our shower skylight for extra height for sure.
Hi Brandon, we have a 25' Airstream trailer and a LT Unity MB. We bought our Airstream first, and then ordered a LT Unity in 2020. After waiting 2 years, we bought a 2015.5 Unity MB to just get started. Now we are ready to sell our Unity MB. Taking it to VanCity at the end of the April. It was a good step to take while waiting. Keep up the good work. We'll see you down the road.
Awesome! are you keeping the Airstream as well?
Yes! really enjoy the Airstream for longer trips.@@Pagosa
My question is how can Tiffin get away with making an unsafe B plus. 😮 of course they will blame the consumer. It just shows its worth the wait in getting a LTV. Also Canadia has higher standards than the US. Keep safe, explore and have fun 🌲🚙🌲
It's really amazing they offer such an unsafe product. The average consumer does not have a clue about OCCC and would not ever even look.
@Pagosa You are so right. I am researching the wayfarers now and had no clue. You are the only reviewer that has mentioned this. Thank you!
How long is that Murphy couch
Not sure
Great review. With interest rates climbing and prices rising.....something's gotta give.
Very true!
Don't know how far your research went into the Wayfarer CCC but in my findings Tiffin calculates their CCC with full fuel, full water and two passengers while most manufacturers only add fuel. That makes the Wayfarer CCC a lot more when compared to the higher numbers of others.
This was from the side sticker, so would have been the standard set by The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) accounting for fuel only.
@@Pagosa I believe the manufacturer can understate the value but cannot overstate it.
I have a 22 25RW and I just checked the OCCC was 1070. Why would the range of weights be so different? I did have factory installed lithium batteries. extra solar panel and Dish Satellite
Each floorplan will be heavier or lighter depending on certain factors. Also every option you add creates more weight and less OCCC
Coach House in Nokomis, Fl is a great option!
Hopefully find one to take a look at and film!
I agree 100% with your evaluation. Leisure Travel is a much better product in my opinion.
The OCCC is low because of the full side. It kills it.
OCCC is something most people don’t think about
Is there a dinette option and washer dryer
What is the width of the slide on how many feet does it expand
you can find all the details at winnebago.com
Thank you for the review there are Tiffin layouts that have a slide out with recliners or dinettes Leisure van only has a slide out for a bed everyone has different likes etc but we like our living area to have space and our sleeping area always available . But Leisure is good quality
The Leisure CB has a dinette slide with a bed in the back if you would like to check that out.
Brandon, is your LTV the MB?
@@randyfeldman428 FX
I didn't like the MB couch either. Very vertical for me; 6' 4." It felt like a 2-seater dinette (that could be changed to the MB support) would be a better fit for the space considering they have those VERY nice theater chairs.
Is this some new Sony camera content with the talking head shots?
Yes, Sony on the last two videos, so far so good!
Informative video. However, some of your LTV comparisons are model specific. In my 2019 Unity Corner Bed (2018 chassis) both wardrobes are lighted like the Tiffin. Also like the Tiffin, the 2 Corner Bed storage bays under the slide out are fixed to the chassis and do not extend with the slide out. I have put 80,000 miles on the LTV in 3 years and remain very happy with my choice.
Nice to know. The CB is really the only model I have not been in or done a video about.
I wish Tiffin would send some of their engineers to math refresher classes. We live near a Wayfarer dealer and are not far from Red Bay, AL. We really like the fit and finish and would love to buy an RV that we could take to the factory if significant repairs were needed. The ample storage space is sadly laughable given the absurdly low cargo carrying capacity. We really like the LTV Wonder FTB but the wait is ridicules. Odds are the model we like will be discontinued when our order slot comes up in 2026 or 2028. That or they’ll want $500,000 for it.
I do think they need to think of the safety of this issue.
The carrying capacity has always been an issue with the Wayfarer. I am surprised they have not worked with different materials to improve it.
It's really inexplicable
Carrying capacity has always been an issue with small RVs. Think of the Toyota partnership with motorhomes back in the 1970's. The Toyota Chinook and the Dolphin motorhome are examples. The problem is that the chassis manufacturerers don't think they sell enough of the stronger chassis to break even if they produce it. I don't know the numbers, so maybe that's the truth. Eventually it put Chinook (Toyota chassis) out of business in the 70's because they couldn't get enough chassis despite being weight conscious, while other manufacturer's were pumping out overweight rvs. And the industry has long overloaded chassis for decades. The more features they put in, the more it weighs.
Any chance you can do a coach house RV review
Hope to do so!
so does the class b+ drive and park in town good? like a class b? we are thinking of trading again to one of these. Only down side is we have a granddaughter that likes to go some times, can three sleep ok in one? thanks also looking at pleasure-way fl
They are just a bit wider than Class B, so very good in town. Many models sleep more than 2.
They do sell Tiffin Allegro in Australia, especially modified for Australia. Although the paintwork is great, virtually everything else does not work here. Wooden interiors are a non event here
That's interesting
You always forget Pleasure Way?
I focus on the Class C, and Pleasure Way only makes Class B. At some point, I will do some videos on Class B and I'm sure Pleasure Way will make an appearance.
Nah. Don't count on fuel and water weights being already included.... Verify with manufacturer. If there is a wreck, no matter who was at fault, insurance companies are going to want to know weight in order to judge whether handling/braking could have been a problem for either party and, therefore, find a reason not to pay out.
Truth
Too much white on the interior, and $50,000. dollars price increase in just 3 years !!! Ridiculous 😅😊
White is the trend these days
Doesn’t look comfortable at all.:(
The theatre seats were amazing, the back couch, not so much
I love my 2022 Leisure CB. Nothing comes close to the quality.
True!
.....not a LTV!
I'd go with LTV
WHO CARES! OVERLOAD THAT BABY. UNITY FANBOY REVIEW LOL!
Guilty as charged
Great insight/video 👍, poor design.👎
Yes, sad to see such low OCCC