I lost my mind at the guy trying to justify liking baking by making it appear like some sort of masculine science He definitely has a case of the fragile masculinity
I do a lot of camping and foraging and male fragility is soooo bad. My favorite example is that no man will call it 'sewing', they have to call it 'repairing' or else they'll spontaneously grow a vagina even though sewing is one of the first things you learn when you start spending time in the woods.
I love the irony of how the phrase “Imagine how a woman feels” is used in that opening text. My assumption going in was that it meant “Imagine a woman’s inner experience.” But no, it turned out to mean, “Imagine the external, physical presence of a woman.” Which seems to be a major part of the problem for incels (and other sexists). They know all too well how they respond to the outward appearance of women. But actually taking the time to imagine real women’s experiences is more than they’re interested in doing.
As a former cell, its meant to pick at isolationist catastrophizing. Physical touch is something I'd imagine most people need, and these guys are really alone, so that pain of it's lack is amplified.
no literally im half indian and that was so funny to me...i feel like i never see SE asians referenced specifically in online discourse and that took me out
What's ironic about that is there are few more stereotypically alpha professions than head chef. As a profession it's widely known to be over-represented by psychopaths, almost as much as surgeons.
not to mention, he'd be a pretty masculine guy if he got rid of his fucking attitude, because that shit isn't "alpha" at all. The fact that he can grow a beard that thick and his facial features alone would make him attractive, but every person on this panet will be instantly turned off because of his god damn personality. I mean hell, if they want to follow traditional masculinity as their worldview, more power to them, but it's like they forgot that the stereotypical Man "back in the day" was supposed to be emotionally strong enough to endure his family's hardships, but also kind and caring towards his wife and children, and would cherish them above all else, even his own life. and he certainly didn't need to reaffirm his masculinity every time he did something "girly", because doing that is probably the most "beta" thing a man could ever do.
Eh, I disagree. The man "back in the day" was exactly like Roosh. And I don't mean that as a compliment. Yes, what you described was the *image* they tried to present, but the true face was and has always been of insecurity and toxic masculinity.
For me, the most insecure thing I've seen until now was my friend, a 6'3" man with a beard, typically dressed in biker boots and leather jacket, who started feeling unsure about his masculinity because among all the heavy metal bands he liked he also found out he likes David Bowie. Just let that sink in. Then I saw this piece about baking science and I have to admit, it takes the cake.
@@John_Malka-tits - how would you come up with that interpretation of the comments above, are you intentionally taking the worst twist possible? The video might be for you. I mean, hell, I am insecure about looking too soft as a man quite often (though I know it's irrelevant), but do you really think it's about mockery of male insecurity when we laugh about insecurity about bakery? The dude is a damn pick-up artist!
I don’t know how to say this, but you literally saved my life few years ago. I had commented at that time and really used your link to block incel forums. I deleted that comment sometime ago but I just wanted to tell you again that you really really changed my life, specially by sharing your experience, it made it relatable. Love you and have a great life ahead. I hope you read this and it makes your day.
Hey, good job! It's great Natalie could be your entering point, but recovering and changing your life is entirely your doing, I really hope you recognize it and give yourself a whole lotta credit for this. Best wishes to you, brother 👍
@@AbhNormal The incels are using "feels" in a literal and physical sense. They can't empathize with a woman's "feelings" because they view women as sex objects, not human beings.
@@hunsinger You still don't understand what incel means. Just go to a forum and see for yourself how they feel about themselves. They view everybody as sex objects not just women, which includes them also. And they judge themselves the harshest.
incel's perceptions of chads & women feels like they watched a couple of those stereotypical high school dramas & proceeded to base their entire worldview on it
I always like to rewatch this vid every so often. The part where she talks about purposefully going on harmful forums, and the rationale behind it reminds me a lot of my own time when i was struggling with an ED and lurked in online forums as well. It's the same thing; people posting themselves, KNOWING that everyone is only going to say harmful things, with no intent of actually helping you. It's an incredibly toxic environment, but in a twisted way its almost addictive. I haven't visited these forums in almost a year, but it also took me physically blocking these sites and pages to get me to stop.
@@dkupkeit's worse than that. One of the things that separates incels from other hate groups is that the method of convincing people to join is not scapegoating, but vindication. For not an insignificant part of the population, the narrative incels try to sell was their real experience or witnessed happening to someone close to them. This makes it that much harder to quit because it isn't convincing someone to hate something they didn't already hate before. Rather, it's promising forgiveness and solace, a modern-day version of church indulgences
@@TheLucidDreamer12 I see definite parallels to the door to door campaigns some by shady congregations like the LDS church or the Jehova’s witnesses. They are deliberately annoying to draw a negative response from people so the poor saps that get roped into it can limp back to the congregation to get love bombed. It’s manipulative af. I’ve also read of men who were in that dark place but happened to have the luck to strike up a relationship-and “the community” turns on them with a vengeance. The worst thing you can do is stray outside the bubble.
I'm a first time viewer, and oh my god, I'm so impressed. Keep up what you're doing. It's original, unique, entertaining, and exactly what the world needs.
Welcome to the wonderful world of ContraPoints. Best political/social channel on RUclips that I am aware of, and it's not even close. So many funny and interesting videos. Enjoy your stay! :)
@@petersmythe6462 forgetting that evolution also bends to those who can adapt to survive to procreate. We can look objectively at animals and their ancestors and go "they didn't adapt to meet their needs; they died off because of this, that or a combination of reasons." Humans can do the same. Not everyone will get to have sex. It has never been garaunteed. It definitely isn't a "right" designated by society. Some will adapt and change as needed. Others won't.
+To Serve Man If you think sex hormones are the most powerful chemical compulsion in humans, I dare you to eat nothing for a week. Please. Do yourself the favour to experience what true compulsion is. I've done it for two days, not voluntarily, and I can assure you that it is WAY more powerful. And yes I can compare the two because I laid next to a willing woman after not having had sex for 2 years and we didn't do anything. Why? Because I knew we'd regret it later. Kind of puts a hammer on your hypothesis. Yeah, sexual compulsion is powerful, but if you think it's the most powerful, you haven't been to the edge of survival. Not even close. Like, you haven't even taken a single step towards it. Sex comes AFTER survival. It's important, but if you don't survive then you can't reproduce. Yes, your position is totally an outrageous claim that needs more evidence. The only reason you think it isn't is because you, like most people with internet access, live in the lap of luxury and none of your other basic instincs have kicked in, probably ever. Which makes sense, because it normally only kicks in once you're safe and well-fed.
"These pricks care enough about my pussy to be an asshole about my dick" has to be THE most poetic and confusingly surreal sentence I've heard in my life! Well done
The Liberation it’s especially frustrating to see the neoliberal brand of feminism where “it’s feminist when woman does thing” (usually cis, white, conservative women) which does nothing to address intersectionality, transfeminism, or toxic masculinity.
The Liberation Feminism turned things upside down? When did women get that memo? I still have the same fears as my great-great-grandmother, but whatever.
@@theliberation9061 "You dicks" are the ones who made the system, so if you're fed up with it, then help change it instead of waiting around for women to do it for you. If your answer is "the world was better when half of humans had less agency, we need to go back to that" then you're doing it wrong.
@@theliberation9061 It was even harder to get laid before feminism. The chad class was even more rigid. Just like capitalism is preferable to feudalism, dating is preferable to arranged and economic relationships.
misanthropicbyday It shows you what an insecure simp he really is, when he has to justify something as neutral and inane as a love for baking with a reason why it makes him ultra masculine.
Scary how many of these unanimated cartoon characters are becoming real sources of trust and information in current society. Or at least a misguided subset of it.
I mean it could be a ploy. In my experience ladies have liked that I bake bread and pastries and can cook an elaborate meal. I think they appreciate the skill and effort. Of course I am dead inside in regards to romance so I'm at least a good friend to have
yeah, and where did he get the idea that cooking is somehow never associated with the masculine? Many famous chefs have a notoriously masculine aura such as Gordon Ramsay, or even just taking RUclips's home cook as an example; Binging with Babish.
Im not saying this for pat on the back but just to let it out. This video made me realize a few things about myself, I was slowly leaning towards a few beliefs of incels over time through isolation. I opened my eyes to how I was treating myself and loved my ones around me, I was disgusted and ashamed of myself and decided to turn my life around. I’ve been working out, eating healthy, and seeing a therapist and I may not be where I want to be in my life but I’m so much happier than I used to be. I’m becoming more confident in myself as a man and my looks, I take care of myself like I should. Im not always on top of my game, but I’m taking a step in the right direction. When you want & strive to be better than you were, you can and will achieve greatness.
You should be very proud of yourself! It takes an incredibly strong person to look themself in the mirror and decide to pull themselves out of the dark hole they're in. It won't always be linear progress but you're already doing so much better than you were. I wish you all the best, you deserve to live a happy, full and confident life!
Same here. I've realized that there are specific women who have treated me poorly in my life, but they are not represenatie of all women. I, just like you have also lost a lot of weight, I am down to a weight where I am only slightly overweight. I've gotten and held a good job. I just find it very hard not to hate my self still.
thats really fantastic dude :) you deserve to be happy, and I'm happy for you. you clearly have a very strong character and willpower, I hope you are proud of that
@@alfsleftnut9224 Congratulation! you have taken the first steps. It wont always be easy and as the comment above says healing is not linear but you are doing great and I hope your journey will continue on well!
It's really strange. Men can naturally become famous chefs, cooks and culinary authors, but women, who are normally associated with cooking, cannot as easily achieve these things.
When a guy can't cook I automatically lose interest. I imagine myself having to do all the work. As much as I love to cook and in very good at it, I don't want it to become a chore. In a relationship you should share the cooking.
I guess it depends on what kind of person you are. I work off of negativity. I work off of telling myself that I’m not smart enough, not attractive enough, not in good enough shape, not hard-working enough, etc. I take this as a challenge to prove myself wrong. I know I can change all of this, so knowing I can become better motivates me. It depends on the person I guess, but I will grow a lot more in a room of people that hate me and talk shit about me than being in a room around people who tell me to love myself.
@@hacked6613 I get that fuel more than empty platitudes. We reduce love to not allowing anything critical, but I think if we expand our understanding of self-love to include growth, we will improve and be better. You clearly ultimately and deeply love yourself and your ability to challenge yourself and grow in areas YOU desire (positive fuel). Our egos need to be balanced so we can be critical and better and empathetic and human. The point is to not bash ourselves into defeat or brush off any attempt to become better and pretend we are already and always perfect. True self-love fuels you into the version of yourself you desire.
anderson being physically attractive is hardly worth the trouble. It isn’t even that important to begin with. Yes, beauty is power. However, a lot of other things are power as well, like being smart, having capital, physical prowess etcetera. Even so, having power/influence is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Experiencing a happy life has infinite mediums, power or love are just two of them.
"Whatever hurts is true" - is a quote that has been burned into my brain because of you, and I mean that in the best way possible. Was never an incel, but this video seriously opened my eyes and made me consider a lot of things about myself, and why others are the way they are. Thank you.
That's the negativity bias, not objectively true. We always feel like it is true ifnit hits nard and makes us uncomfortable and it's so that truth often does that. But there's a difference between the discomfort of learning something about ourselves with actual growth and the discomfort of self flagellation and fatalism.
Lol my dad's a pastor and he was watching a very serious video about "closet christians" in the workplace, afraid to be "outed" as a christian because they believe they'll be fired. Edit: and he was also very serious about it... I came out about 2 years later 😂
@@valeriapino2721 lmao I came out as gay and enby and he still doesnt use my name, and also told me that he believes God will make me straight... Needless to say I've lost a fair amount of respect for him Edit: Meanwhile I still wear makeup, paint my nails, and most everyone else calls me Fynn so...
@@claudioestrella1160 Sending unsolicited dick pics and messaging girls with "hey" from your blank account doesn't really constitute meaningful conversation.
I thought the opening line “Imagine how a woman feels...” was going to be an invitation to see the world from a woman’s perspective. That was an unpleasant moment of adjustment.
Sir Jaojao I’ll be honest I’ve heard of Rothschild conspiracy theories but not the other one. I’m sure if Three Arrows does a video on it the video will be great
This sort of reminds me of Pro-Anorexia/Pro-Bulimia communities where the goal isn't recovery, but encouragement of unhealthy habits and negative body images. They bond over hating their own appearances. Even if other people tell them they look fine as they are, they don't believe it. I guess there's some comfort in misery.
it's somewhat similar to pro ana communities but now, from what I've seen, they try to hide their toxic behavior by being "positive" and by not publicly body shaming other people but they still encourage each other to reach their goals and will shame their own bodies for not being good enough. unless it's a post meant to "motivate" other people (often called meanspo) they will avoid shaming anyone for being fat, but the underlying self hatred and toxic behavior is still there.
I thought about this often during the video, eating disorders and similar things are not discussed from men's perspectives enough and it's not fair, men need mental help too men need therapy men need emotional support and that should be seen as the norm by society
@Heart Of Stars that's what is so strange about these guys. The ones on the mgtow channels want to "Bring back the patriarchy " which never left and is that main cause of their mental problems. Even the women they were abused by are most likely fucked up because of patriarchy.
I’m a lesbian and it’s honestly scaring me how much I relate to these straight man incel posts. Because of platforms like tumblr and especially tiktok now, there is very much cutesy wlw couples content, which is definitely a huge step forward when it comes to the normalization of wlw community. But all these sugary posts kind of rose-tint the wlw experience, and I think a lot of people are unaware of how incredibly existentially lonely a lot of us feel. Like shit, our odds of finding love are at least tenfold worse than straight men. Not to mention the crippling self disgust from living in a world that treats us as a porn category. Just some thoughts
I had a real eye opener when my business was expanding into a smaller market and my go-to kick ass number one employee refused to go run the smaller market, even for a ton of money, because she was a lesbian and moving from a big city to a small town would essentially destroy her entire social life. It hadn't even occured to me. I mean , she does fine living where we do, but it's something she has to think about and be aware of and miss opportunities for.
This is such a good remark! I always feel kinda embarrassed about my lack of romantic experience, especially compared to my friends, but I can truly count on one hand the number of times I've met a girl that was both my age, gay and single, so it's not actually that surprising now that I think about it. Like yeah there are apps but it's so forced and weird and energy-taking... Like you said loneliness is way more spread than these men seem to think.
As a bisexual and polyamorous woman it's extremely hard to find woman online, most completely lesbian woman I've interacted with don't want to date me because I'm bi. When looking for a girlfriend to join my existing relationship it was even harder since most that would even go well were either far away or would ghost me. Eventually I found someone in college and luckily am in a happy relationship with my lovers(we all date eachother). In my small village the only woman who would try to go for me were purely sexual and secretive woman not interested in relationships. Moving to a bigger place has definitely made it easier to find in person queer identifying people like me.
The term incel was actually originally established by a bisexual woman to include marginalised people (amongst others) who were involuntarily celibate due to their circumstances, so it's really not so strange that you relate to base incel ideas. It's very unfortunate that this term got hijacked by the incels of today.
there has just been some cruel murders in Turkey and i keep seeing word "incel" in twitter about it. I wondered what it was. this video was really informing. thanks.
It really is. It's not as if baking or liking artwork suddenly causes the average woman to say "Welp, he seemed masculine but obviously a man who can stand cooking is obviously an unsuitable mating partner". Perhaps there are some women who do think like that but it occurs to me that they're not a majority.
I think it's possible that Roosh and other "Alphas" might themselves be Trans or otherwise queer in some way. I think it would help explain their obsession with but also deep confusion over masculinity.
Few things have helped me in my transition more than Natalie saying that her brutal self-criticism began to affect how she saw other trans women. I immediately recognized i was starting to do the same and my life has been so much better since I started working on loving myself
I've had a similar epiphany, that if I kept being hateful towards myself it would eventually contaminate how I treat others, so I'm trying to be gentler to myself.
@@sebastianswan7975 Oh, huh. I never heard that metaphor before. Thanks for explaining @• •••• Your snarkiness is really attractive. Good to know when people have genuine questions, you'll be there to answer honestly. Get bent.
The original Chad is a joke, it's not supposed to be a desirable person. It's based on an older meme called virgin walk, which is the virgin as presented on the left. The Chad on the right is actually making fun of the entire red pill ideology by taking everything about the virgin and making it as far from it as possible, pretending it's something desirable when it's just silly. The reason Chad has never listened to music in his life is just because the virgin is listening to music in the virgin walk.
But, does he 'engineer a gluten-based architectural construct w/tomatoes, deli meat and mustard'? Or must he have a 'femoid' (?) come make his sammich for him? Cripes, I'll bet Roosh gets all kinds of 'tingly feelings' watching the Great British Baking Show where men (and women) of all types are just whipping out the 'Chemistry and Science' of biscuits and cakes...
I have to say I'm watching your video right now, not even done watching, just subscribed and am pausing the video to type this: Thank you. I am a 36 year old man, happily married for 7 years, but your videos have truly helped me understand so much beyond the scope of my own small corner of the world. You are an inspiration to me and your intellect is staggering, but most importantly, I believe you make a genuine effort to sincerely understand the topics you cover. Keep up the great fucking work. 😊
Was put off by the youtube recommendation because "ugh, not more stupid incel drama" - but oh my god, this whole thing is on point and absolutely hilariously written. Really love all the set and costume designs too - the flavor they add makes this quite unique for RUclips. Will definitely jump into future videos more quickly!
I can totally understand why people would get turned off after the ridiculous deluge of videos on the topic that just take super surface-level skimming of the topic. But that's why this channel is so great. Deep dives from the perspective of someone who also understands a lot of the types of people in the topic at hand, while still being highly opposed to them. That understanding makes being able to analyze, debunk, and portray these people so much more effective. Add in a healthy mix of production value and you've got some quality stuff.
Same, I feel like the youtube algorithm has been desperate for me to watch this for months, but I just didn't want to engage with anything incel... glad I finally gave in, though; this is the best kind of thoughtful original content
KingBobXIV I was very similar to you: I had this video in the recommends for _months_ but I thought I know enough about the subject, I don't need this. But (1) this was so well made and presented even all the stuff I knew was worth it, (2) I found the trans parallel very interesting.
I really hope Roosh starts taking up more "feminine" hobbies so we can see what excuses he comes up with.. "So I've decided to out myself as someone who knits...but you know, knitting does involve a complex branch of mathematics to create unique patterns and algorithms with wool, and as men are more mathematically minded"
"So I've recently started frequenting gay bars... but you know, riding dick in squatting reverse cowgirl is a physically demanding activity that requires healthy muscle mass and endurance in order to maintain rhythm; men are really more suited to it than women." - Roosh, circa 2018
I've come back to this video again and again for years. This is what gave me valuable tools against lifelong self loathing- which I have spread to other people as much as I possibly can- that I had never heard the like of before. It's also what got me to wake up and recognize my own dysphoria. Five years later, I'm a man. And I'm more myself and more alive than I ever thought I could be. I can't thank you enough.
Amen to this. After being rejected by this lovely girl I was dating, I realized how important one's time alone or with friends really is. How in order to be in a relationship, you have to make many sacrifices. You have to find time that you might not have in a given moment. I've done so many great things in the past could months. Been learning how to play the guitar, been to the Hamptons with friends from my club, seen interesting movies, laughed with my siblings. Really. There's so much to life most people forget. A relationship would be awesome. But it'll come when you're finally ready to commit I guess. That does not mean one can't have fun in the meantime ; )
@@mythvrl You are not a fucking animal, as a human being your life can go way beyond just reproduction. Creating art, learning, philosophy, friendship, family, contemplating the beauty of the universe.
This digital self-harm is really common in people with eating disorders, especially forms of anorexia. There's thinspo for "goals" and meager recipes and hatespo for shaming the posters into getting sicker
Yeah it's not unique to incels and its do harmful. Attitude cant fix everything, but it will certainly help, and online forums often just encourage a toxic mindset that makes the core issue harder to solve.
This is one of the worst, but the problem is much larger than this one particular community. A while back I wanted to understand OCD better so I headed over to the OCD subreddit... My god, the suicide posts, the hopelessness. It's the same thing - a belief that nothing can change, that their disability cripples them for life and there are no options left etc... If you were diagnosed and wound up there you could easily be poisoned by the mindset there. To put things in perspective there is another support subreddit for quitting caffeine. You see people there talking about taking months to recover, about getting their emotions back etc... I've never heard anyone talk about caffeine withdrawal like that before. It just goes to show that even something that isn't a big deal to most people can be made to look like the end of the world when you wind up on these forums. I am largely against support forums for this reason - you'll only see the worst of the worst and there is no therapist or neutral mediator steering healthy conversation - it's just a bunch of miserable people feeding off of each others skewed and distorted ideas. Someone on another RUclips video made a chilling comment - if you've spent a lot of time in very angry or polarizing places on the internet, there's a very good chance that your ideas and thoughts aren't really yours anymore. Months away will change and reset you. It is very easy to get lost in that kind of stuff.
I've found a similar environment in chronic illness support forums. There's the positive side where you find people who understand what you go through, but there's also so much hopelessness and fear and helplessness and people who wish they were dead. I had to get away from that before I started living my life to its full potential despite the limitations of my illness.
I mean, OCD is a mental illness that can be debilitating so it seems a bit irresponsible to compare it to incels, if a guy with incel ideology never enters a forum and is left untreated, he'll either grow out of it or just be bitter. If someone with ocd Is left untreated, they'll likely try to kill themselves. Getting help for OCD is so much harder than getting help for being an incel because if you tell someone you view women poorly, they'll correct you and explain why you're wrong. If you tell people your symptoms of OCD, they might very well treat you like a monster or freak, because not only is mental illness still stigmatised, a huge symptom of OCD, is your mind floods you with horrible thoughts, not 'I'm not good enough' kind of thoughts but 'I can't hold a kitchen knife or I'm afraid I'll stab my sister', now that person would never stab their sister but the illness in their minds is trying to convince them that they are capable of it. If you told the average neurotypical person that you struggled with that thought, what's the likelihood they'll be educated enough on ocd to understand that ocd often floods you with violent and hateful thoughts but they don't reflect on the person themselves? I've seen people online try to talk honestly about OCD and be told they're monsters and that their thoughts are all true reflections of themselves, even though that's literally the opposite of the truth of the illness. Now imagine getting that same hate and fear, but from your closest friends and family I'm personally very lucky, I'm able to imagine a very happy life for myself with my OCD and all, so I'm far from a doomer, but I think it's so unfair to judge others by myself. Just because I'm lucky enough to have a support system and access to therapy, doesn't mean everyone is, and I'm in no place to tell someone worse off than me that they should feel better and their life isn't that bad. Especially when a lot of doomerism around OCD isn't about the actual illness itself, it's about the social stigma around it. Having to hide an essential part of who you are out of gear your friends will think you're a monster is.. Well, not good for you mentally. Not attacking you or anything , I just thought your comparison was kind of poorly thought out. It's like being surprised and horrified that a support group for depression talks in depth about suicide attempts, in order to heal from something awful, you need to actually say what that awful thing. Thanks for hearing me out!
I've come across this in the most innocent communities. For example the language learning community. Most people don't know this, but people learning a language/languages can sometimes form into, well, a community. And not just a bunch of turtorials about learning Japanese. But, oh man, the moment you're in, the moment you're like deep in, that's when stuff turns nasty. After you've taken your "Japanese for beginners" course online, that's when you'll fall into a world of insecure people all bullying each other. We have the six levels (A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2) and we can't be obsessed about skulls, but we will be obsessed about the amount of words you know and the level you think you have. (There are exams, but people will often not take those and just guess the level they are at.) And the term that everything evolves around is "native speaker". That's our version of Chad or getting a woman. With people in the community often having thoughts like "I'll never be a native speaker. They'll always be able to clock me." As a lot of people want to learn a language and speak it so well that native speakers don't notice that language is not their native language. (Basically passing.) A LOT of people are positive in the community. With videos like "how to start speaking to native speakers" which contradict this whole idea by saying "even YOU can talk to native speakers". Which is why I think this community hasn't become as toxic as some others yet. But man, that community can send you down some dark paths. Forcing yourself to memorize useless thousands of words of vocabulary for no real reason. Just because some internet stranger told you "you'll only be a native speaker if you know 10 000 words. Otherwise you'll never be a native speaker." I think every community centered around getting good at something, like music art or learning a language, has to deal with this problem.
I find this on a lot of autistic places. Simply suggesting you can work on social skills and anxiety gets me labeled as "ablest" and "hating myself". Like I don't want to improve myself for others. I just want to be able to go to the shop without having a panic attack. And thanks to working on things for years... I can.
Oh jeez, the OCD thing is extra terrifying since OCD can make you, yknow, obsess. I could totally see browsing the doom posts on r/OCD becoming a compulsion that just keeps bringing its victim lower and lower. I can’t imagine something worse for my OCD than a hive of others who have been brought low by it and are encouraging me to follow every compulsion… jeez. This type of cultish hopelessness is extra potent to the obsessive thought spirals that OCD creates, and it’s quite worrying that there’s a community like that which specifically targets people with OCD.
@@oka5969 Men Go Their Own Way. Not absolutely sure what the movement is exactly about but I think it's a reaction to third wave feminism. You should look it up
@@eggsandbananas4983 yeah, just googled it..,,,.aaaaand it's stupid af lmao. Seems like some sad dudes wanting something to blame their patheticness for, from what I understood lol. Thanks for explaining!!
It combines a somewhat stiff-sounding, 'politically correct' phrase "people of color", with a memey, informal, and non-politically-correct word Chad. The contrast is funny.
Jesus, coming back and watching this again after several years I am sorry to say I had forgotten just how good Natalie is and just how educational her content can be.
What if we create an incel rehabilitation forum, made up of guys complimenting each other and helping the other guys on there to get into relationships and accept rejection. It shall be called “The Wingmen”
35 minutes on incels, I thought, really how indulgent is this going to be?...35 minutes later, holy shit this is better than a thousand bad thinkpieces. Bravo
this digital self harm you mentioned very much reminds of my days in pro eating disorder forums. it's scary how similar all these kinds of forums really are. glad you got out of this fruitless hellhole too :)
As someone who is in the early stages of an eating disorder myself, it's good to see others recovering, and it gives me hope that I can do better in due time. BTW You have a great taste in music if your pfp is from where I think it is.
those forums are entertaining making fun of the mentally ill and stuff its maybe a hellhole from ur perspective but from mine its amazing to see people kys over words it makes me feel 2 things 1 im powerfull to kill people with words 2 people are stupit and weak i mainly feel 2 and it mostly is true because irl im a bit of a cunt yes but i can take a joke this youtube comment section is probably full of normies who make the same mistake as these incels they take it to siriously i got on the internet on the age of 7 4chan when i was 8 i tought me one thing dont take the internet seriusly yes i got called mean words online at a yung age but that made me harden my emotions and 50/50 on those forums are enabelers that just want to see the world go crazy
Can I say something I just figured out?: It is so empowering it is to hear Nat say transphobic things aloud every episode! I'm not kidding, every episode she says something really really really fucked up and I just laugh and cry and laugh again. Because those aren't the things I hear people say, they aren't the ordinary transphobic things people say when I'm passing, or that people accidentally let slip out. Those are the transphobisms so transphobic that the only person I hear them from is me. In my own goddamn head. So it makes me amazingly happy to hear them come out of her lips. Because it confirms that I'm not alone in all the hatred I've managed to internalize. Because it takes away the shameful secretive power of the thoughts I've never been able to explain to others. And because it shows how bitter, and small and ordinary is that thought, coming off of so many bitter and small and ordinary characters' lips. Well, maybe they aren't so ordinary. But they aren't monsters, they're humans who are silly and who I can imagine forgiving. I can suddenly imagine forgiving myself, too, for all the hateful things I think to myself. So thank you, Nat, if you ever see this, for all you do for us. For all you've done for me.
I don't wish any appropriation of your self awareness. It's been a struggle for me going on decades. I've struggled with internal discussions, and Natalie (and Olly of Philosophy Tube) do an excellent focus on the emotional mind. This understanding, this empathy to see the human side of oneself, and express that toward another is a skill Natalie is doing very well. Really, isn't that just the natural draw to her? She's allowed us in, and I have worked so hard to adjust myself to my awkward vulnerabilities. This is decades of work, and at my age, the introspection naturally occurs. Life has a limit. I'm glad to read what you wrote, as Natalie has validated both of us, you affirm thinking processes like myself. It's that I have what I think is a long list of things to worry about, but who doesn't? To let it be, and just be is really what I've wanted far too long. We all have our different focus, our reasons, and that's what's so wonderful about Natalie and so many who bring their lives here. It's Ok to be.
@leaves autumn Did you even watch the video? The point is that although some may be very ugly or just slightly below average, it's like an online self-harm chamber. Contra points (lol) out how there are short men who still get laid, and how a lot of incels are like that because they refuse to believe that people don't like their attitude. She highlights a post at one point where the incel literally denies it.
First off, maybe it wasn't the intention but that last "How about an Asian guy?" claim just seems like you're saying that an asian guy is inherently unatractive, which I believe is not true, I've seen a lot of asian guys and women who are atractive, and if you're saying that because of their height, they can still be atractive even with that and they can still be tall. Either way, even though things like: height, face and body physique, can be very important things to a straight woman, I think is no different to how we straight males value those sorts of things as well in a woman, for me even "resigning" can be kind of harmful, not that being ugly is bad in any way, but it's pretty obvious that when you're unattractive you have to find new and different ways to get people into you. Specially, because "beauty" in some respects can be subjective, some of it is completely biological, sure, but a good chunk of it depends on the person. The problem with incels is not just the fact that they're "unatractive", hell, a whole lot of them are average looking guys, is that they create themselves an incredibly toxic environment that doesn't allow them to grow up as people. In this world there are pretty people, ugly people, average looking people, short, tall people, you name it. But at the end of the day, you should stop getting so caught up on those things and just learn to appreciate yourself as a person, you and nobody else.
a female doesn't know what depression is, females have an easy ride in life, just look at how few homeless women there are, my government puts females at the top of the list for housing even before a homeless man, something needs to change in this world, men are 2nd class citizens, if I ever kill myself i will hang myself in the town centre to punish the government.
@leaves autumn white women don't find Asian men attractive??? Lol have you ever heard of kpop fans, they're crazy over Asian guys. It's really about your attitude
@leaves autumn that hasn't been my experience. Men I have seen who say they are attracted to "intelligent women and nice women" just go for the ones that just go for the ones that are just pretty nothing more. I'll just say this once and for all, looks at the end of the day don't matter, staying in the corner mumbling to your will never let you find some one would and would just be a self fulfilled prophesy. And if every woman you have met dissed you. I feel like that is on you and how you act. In other words Grow the fuck up and get over high school. Depression and self hate is very toxic I have been in that self hate phase. Its not pretty
This is just like capitalism. A few men have all the money, all the power. The rest are, well... Angry. Similarly, a few chads have all the women, all the sex. I predict something similar to a worker's revolution. Only in this case it will be sexually frustrated men.
@Symone Ham these people aint obessed with relationships its just dat they aint attractive enought to get casual sex, so havin a gf is the only way to get pussy, if some doesnt seem happy it means dat the sex aint good or dat the sex is becoming do secondary dat its gettin boring. Theres women chasin relationships but for dem its more about self-esteem, some foid almost need a bf to breathe but i believe its a minority
Nah they were women when they made it, just not out yet. The original script for The Matrix had a ton of LGBTish content that got cut by the studio. Like for instance, there was both a man and a woman cast to play "Switch" since they were one gender in the Matrix and another in the real world (I don't remember which is which)
Adam Neely I've often felt that way myself, and I've never had a phrase to describe it. Now having seen the idea thrown out there, I can't help but imagine it's a super common mindset.
"You'll never make it as a musician." "Some people have that musical gift and you don't." "You don't have what it takes." Over time though, it's possible to turn the thought of "it hurts so it must be true", to "it hurts, and i'll prove it's false." Big fan of your vids man!😁
As a trans woman, you are one of the few people who can actually be credible when talking about what heterosexual relationships are like from both ends of the spectrum. Great video!
Digital self-harm is a phrase I absolutely needed to see. I wish it had somehow happened upon me earlier, but a few months ago I had to quit twitter cold turkey because I realized that it was making me so incredibly miserable. I was intentionally exposing myself to internet things that made me unhappy and I rationalized to myself that it was more important to "keep up with what's going on in the world." Some of it was politics, but a LOT of it was bullshit internet Discourse that was just... awful. And I just kept going on twitter, constantly, because of that rush, the relief of being in the know, of getting in on all the memes as they happened, because it felt so important to be completely informed always. It's not exactly the same as the incel digital self-harm you're talking about, but it is definitely very similar, and I think a lot more people are engaging in digital self-harm than realize it.
I have been pondering the effects of emotional self-harm. And I too know that rush, the relief of being in the know. Trying to ride the Zeitgeist. I don't have an answer, I try to be careful in what media I consume. As the good Dr. Timothy Leary said. "The brain is a photovore. Your brain, my brain, our brains live on light. Just as the body needs air and carbohydrates, our brains are starved for light, for illumination, for revelation."
Kate, you made a good choice. Leave websites and circles online that make you feel genuinely distressed, unhappy and leading you the wrong way. Im so glad you feel better, and I know how you feel, Ive done the same.
Yes, I know what you mean! I always look for the sexist/racist/etc. commentary on social media- Interesting stuff, but it makes me a little bit too angry for my own sake ^^'
It's actually a pretty important self help tactic for people, especially those with anxiety, to take breaks from online, simply because it can be so overstimulating it can trigger anxiety or exuberate it without you even knowing, I think people should look at this as the same way of getting enough light, sleep and other things in the day, take some time away from the internet sometimes and focus on the here and now for a cabin whatever way works, when you need it (obviously some have higher thresholds than others)
Wow! This actually made me realize just how much digital self-harming is going on on the internet nowadays, it made me realize just how much I've engaged in digital self-harm! Now, excuse me while I go back and watch this video 15 more times to fully absorb the majesty that is a new Contrapoints video!
Erica trueee XD. i've also found twitter (or at leaast the parts i frequent/the way i consume it (way too much)) to be quite unhealthy. but i mean that's most social networks
Jordan Rodriques Hey, sorry I didn't get back to you until now, but I hadn't checked this comment in a while. First of all, I sincerely hope that you're doing okay and that your path towards happiness and inner peace is going well. From what you've written here, it sounds like you've got a lot of really great advice that I know a lot of people in this world could really use and really need to hear so I really hope that you'll be in a good enough place to share them with the world. :) Secondly, this is fantastic advice and I'll definitely work to take them to heart. I'm lucky in that most of my self-harming, especially my digital self-harm, are now in the past. I still struggle with feel hopeless and worthless, but my worst self-harming behaviours are definitely behind me at this point and, baring a major upset and a complete and utter relapse, I don't see them returning ever again. My self-harming behaviours were also somewhat different than what was normally described, but I did them for the same reasons. It was to escape my own misery and frustration while also an attempt to self-sabotage any happiness I could have, and I'm SO happy to be rid of them. Still, I really appreciate your help and your advice and I'll try to use them to further my own growth and evolution away from the emotions I still carry with you and thank you very much for that. I hope that they're working well for you and that you're finding yourself in a better place every day. Good luck in your process and I hope that you'll soon be in a much better place! Again, thanks so much! :D
I have always said that what separates a depressed boy from an incel is the environment where he develops. To this day. I still fit in the "incel" category, but what has kept me mentally "sane" is staying away from those types of toxic and harmful environments, focusing my life on seeking my own happiness and feeling comfortable with myself, while time seeking therapy when I needed it most. Life is extremely difficult when you feel like it's you against everything else, but not all truths hurt and you're never really alone. we must remain hopeful. Great video, immediate subscription!
Cory Richards it instantly made me think of meanspo! When I first started off my ED I spent a lot of time on ED tumblr and actively asked people for meanspo to trigger myself and make it worse. The internet is such a shitty place tbh
TW: I was there when Elliot Rodger killed those people. I was 19. A month before that, I’d been raped. After the shooting, I watched Elliot’s videos and realized there are men out there who will rape you, and if they can’t rape you, they’ll kill you. It really fucked me up. It’s been almost 10 years now and I’m still dealing with symptoms of CPTSD. For a while, I had suicidal thoughts, but a dear friend told me that I’m valuable. To anyone reading this, just know you are valuable for simply existing ❤
I'm really sorry that happened to you. As a male S.A survivor myself (albeit 20 odd years ago) I want you to know you're not alone, and there are good people on your side 🫂
i feel like you held my hand through a journey into the horrific underbelly of the internet while providing insightful, funny, and objective-as-humanly-possible information and anecdotes. You're a dream, I'm so happy I stumbled on your channel
I have never had anything to do with incels and viewed this video just to see what it was all about, and I ended up taking something from it. "catastrophizing," "digital self-harm," and "forming mental habits" -- all things I have a tendency to do, and now I have words for them so I can be more aware of when I'm doing them. wow
Name Surname I came to this video with the same curiosity/inexperience. Good godly lord, this is a thing?? People do this...? People are like this?? This is so much to BE, it's like trying to find the starting point in a wad of shower drain hair. So many self-enforcing backward notions. Part of me wants to help, but the rest of me is like, *This is why therapy exists.*
@@HexIsme You'd be surprised at how many things seem obvious to you that are completely mind blowing to others. I remember the first time I read about communities that were so conservative and controlling of their women's sexuality, that a woman made it to her 20's before learning that she could have orgasms, too.
Love learning from your videos. Never heard of "catastrophizing" before. Definitely a problem I have. When I finally see a therapist, will be good to bring this up
I was watching too many redpill/blackpill videos, and it was starting to get me down. Thanks for reminding me that this stuff is just a big delusion brought on by anxiety, low self-esteem, and deep insecurities.
Flooby Badoop it’s a rabbit hole that can sometimes be hard to get out of. Is It easy to find a mate? For some, yeah. That’s just a fact, some men and women are more attractive than most others. But that doesn’t mean that finding a mate is impossible. When you find that person who’ll show you that this red pill/black pill bullshit is just that, bullshit, by doing absolutely nothing but love you for being you, you’ll see. I thought no one would ever love me after 28 years of sheer bitter loneliness. But understand that you have to be in a certain frame of mind before you’ll be able to find someone. You have to be okay with yourself before you can expect others to be okay with you too. People can sense self loathing and pure bitter hatred a mile away.
Both of you missed your opportunity of honesty. The red and black pill is the solution to break out the illusion that we call life. It's not too late to consider it
I think Redpill is really usefull to some extent. Just like some aspect of the mgtow philosophy. But the more you'll do research about them, the more you'll see their dark side.
what's hilarious is that Natalie may have left the academia but it never left her. this is The video that i share with all my fellow students and professors and I need this in a form of a peer-reviewed article so i can use it in At Least all my term papers.. anyway. mad respect.
One thing I don't miss about philosophy was all the damn heavyweight writing involved. Good riddance term papers if you ask me. Shit. Brings back nightmares.
I hope he never decides to wash a dish or heaven forbid, actually push the damn vacuum around, or he'll have to grow his beard down to the floor. Let's see a woman do that!
Jesus that opening is a great way to find out how innocent you are. That took "imagine how a woman feels" in a completely different direction from what I expected, even knowing the topic is incels.
It also serves to show just how misogynistic they are and how they view women as something to collect the resource of s*x from. A small bit of the opening and a small bit of the end was about romance.... everything else is just s*x. That's how they think about women.
If any of you sissies actually had a group of normal Chad male friends, you'd know something like baking some f*cking cookies is going to get you made fun of...in front of the bros you counteract it by say something like "I'm not gay or nothing but I'm baking cookies" Nothing to do with wanting to force masculinity into anything...it's literally so we avoid a little stupid joke like "Oh you're baking bread!! What are you Martha Stewart!!!" Do we think baking cookies is gay??...No is our friend gay for baking cookies???...Yes
Some of the most masculine men I know (“alpha males” if you will) are incredible bakers/chefs. And frankly? That makes them all the more attractive because it increases the possibility that I get surprise brownies. Hurrah! (P.S. - for those of you who say OHHH bUt ItS nOt mAnLy aNd My BrOs WiLl MaKe FuN oF mEeEeE....get new friends.)
Did I defy the entire Incel theory by being a normal dude and marrying a woman who has more money than me? I mean, if we divorce, she'll have to pay me alimony. Does that mean I won? Where's my prize? btw, I hope we don't get divorced, I love my wife.
Everyone defies Incel theory, because Incel theory is inherently wrong. Almost everyone I know wouldn't fit this world view. I know one guy who actually _does_ have a cuckold fetish. How does that work for them? A man who loves being a third wheel, and has had many happy relationships.
I actually have a lot of the features these incels claim makes them unfuckable (short, small wrists, some "feminine" facial features) and have never had a problem attracting women. It's almost as if...not being perfect physically doesn't mean you're ugly, and physical appearance isn't the only determining factor in whether or not women find you attractive. Oh, and before someone decides it's because of my money...it's not. I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. I am simply, confident, have a good sense of humor and genuinely care about the women I choose to get involved with. That's right - me, a flawed, unfuckable, short, narrow-wristed "beta" with the facial structure of a masculine woman somehow actually attracts enough attention from women that I get to choose who to get involved with and who not to. Crazy, right?
Hearing Abigail reading out the quotes of depressed/abusive transwomen on 4chan boards is... depressing, in hindsight. Glad her life didn't ultimately mirror theirs. (Power of acting!)
I was just doing a rewatch and realized it was Abigail and damn like I know she's an actress but I wonder if she ever let those thoughts get to her and I hope so badly no....
Okay, I did not think I was going to stay and watch the whole 35 minutes but the way you began without the whole "your mere existence as a man is a red flag" vibe you get from most content creators (even the ones who claim they want to help you address your problems) is what made me stay. Your video didn't make me feel belittled, mocked, coddled, intimidated or anything, really; you just put the truth out there, as it is. I really like how you showed the steps on the downward spiral. I guess I'm at step 5 and while I don't think I'll go beyond it, some content creators who lack your objectivity were definitely helping me down towards step 6. Thankfully, this video helped me realize I do have friends but the way I'm going, isolating myself and all, I feel they won't stick around for much longer. I have to stop that and possibly change my thoughts about a lot of stuff. I guess I have a lot of work to do so thanks for this. Maybe I'll come back to this when I'm in a better space and hopefully say something different.
It's good that Contrapoints made you stop at Step 5, but you need to climb back over the previous steps. Don't blame content creators for your downward spiral. The content you watch is your choice (or the choice of an algorithm you let make the content choices for you), and the way you understand and interpret the content you watch doesn't depend on the presenter alone but also on your biases and cognitive limitations. When people descend into cult-like communities like incels, they take on ideas that serve as thought-blockers. Contrapoints is effective because she purposefully steers around those thought-blockers. But other people who fail to do that while criticising the cult aren't the reason for your demise, the cult - which issues the thought-blockers and the toxic and irrational ideas those blockers are meant to conserve - is. Say, you vision things into content like a "your mere existence as a man is a red flag vibe". Identifying that vibe is something you must have been pre-conditioned to by certain content you watched previously. I'm a man who has seen several videos analysing and criticising the incel movement from several different content creators, and I never got such a vibe from anyone, it strikes me as bizarre. This certainly looks like one of those thought-blockers; this one apparently built on cultivating & enhancing a sense of male fragility.
@@gustavsjokvist2668 He is better than a lot of options and has some good advice, but I still get a weird vibe from him. I'm waiting for the inevitable scandal that comes when I get that vibe.
Imagine having a Masculinity so fragile you must justify your love of baking, a process that has been utilized by all of humanity for thousands of years. I'd argue that baking is pretty gender neutral
Yeah like MFs been mocking the dude like saying that it's just for women well it's not that masculine but it's just what I gotta do. Btw I got hungry now, bon appetite y'all 😋🥪🍳
35 mins ago: RUclips recomendations, do i really wanna watch a video about incels? wont that be a bit too depressing for a hungover sunday? Now: Holy shit my mind is blown, that was amazing and i think i am in love
You are.. just amazing. Moreover this was the most interesting and thoughtful, and darkly funny, examination of this psychological happening I've found. Thank you for what you do. -a Therapist
Honestly I've been avoiding this video from my recommendation because I thought it would be typical "incels are dumb lol" type of video, I'm honestly pleasantly surprised it's actually have a lot of good feed backs for them at are self loathing in general, even for that of a non incels
swivel keyring I used to be an incel, until I started listening to the women in my life better, (and also this video, lolwut) and realize I had issues with myself that I needed to get unpack.
Rare do the videos on this channel take the same route of how to speak on a topic that so many typical youtube channels do. In most cases, unlike a lot of youtube clickbait on a topic regarding a group, mockery is not the goal. Understanding is the goal. How do people get to this state? What are their thought processes? How can you find something in your own life that will allow you to, if not sympathize, at least understand where they're coming from? What is the sort of language they use amongst themselves, so you can recognize the conversation? As fun and artistic as the production values are, the biggest draw of the videos on this channel are the core content themselves.
Anon Random You just proved my argument that she is a woman by mentioning that her wikipedia article says that she is a trans woman. And then you become disrespectful and discriminating by saying that she is a man. What's the purpose of doing this? Why are you being transphobic? Can't you just let other people be themselves? They are not hurting you in any way. Why are there people like you?
Incels remaind me a LOT to toxic pro ana forums. Like "Roast me" topic are so popular. You post pictures so that everyone feeds the voices in your head that already hate the way you look. You need to feel fat, to see people who are skinnier than you to feel like a failure and keep feeding your obsession with your body, and your hate for yourself. Many are skinnier than everyone they see IRL, so they go to the internet so that they CAN compare, and feel like they are failing. I still deal with a LOT of BD because of my ED, and reading incels it almost mirrors my own feelings sometimes, is so so weird
Maria Apaolaza I'm so sorry dear... I have some unresolved EDs & other issues & I agree. I'm very lucky to be slightly too old to have experienced the internet until I was in therapy or I'm pretty sure I'd have died from the despair. Strength & love to you my earth sibling.💕💕
God I remember tumblr pro-Ana spaces being SUCH a contributing factor to my ED. The idea of “no one could ever love you and you’ll be alone forever, so you might as well starve yourself to death” mirrors so perfectly with the LDAR thing. Despite this, I still don’t have much sympathy for incels. Just the fact that there are so many groups that suffer in the same way without turning to violent hatred of an invented enemy is enough for me to write them off as another terrifying symptom of toxic masculinity :/
This gave me compassion for people who hate. Thanks. And you're beautiful, and I am not a nice enough person to say that unless it's true. Thanks for overcoming your self-loathing enough to talk about it.
Lel, my dad was made fun of by some dumb ladies in his youth because he knew how to make jam out of fruits like his mom taught him. He’s also been bald since his late 20s because genetics. And guess what? He didn’t let that get him down and eventually found a woman who isn’t superficial. Has been married happily for about 20 years now and they’ve been living together long before that. Obviously got laid too, living proof right here. Now we’re all living in a beautiful house with a garden and in that garden, we have a peach tree that’s so full every year that we all get into the kitchen and make peach jam out of the peaches we can’t eat and have a laugh at his old stories.
I was an incel a few years back, before I started university I believed i was inherently understandable and that I could never have happiness. Then in uni i first installed tinder and eventually I started talking to a girl, i wasnt that attracted to her but she seemed nice enough and we went on a date that ended in me loosing my verginity. One of the darkest points in my life came after, i had finally done it, i was loved and appreciated and... still lonely, still depressed, still feeling undesirable. The saddest thing about incels is that they have constructed there world view around a straw man that can only serve to distract them from their actual problems. Im seeking help, doing cbt to give me confidence and slowly trying to piece together a life i want to live. I hope they can do the same.
Your problem was being a loser with low self esteem, not being an incel. A guy can have many problems, you just focused on the wrong one as the cause of your underlying issues.
@@emmaspaz6435 exact opposite actually, just look into the OkCupid statistics for example, vast majority of women considers over 70% of men to be below average looking.
Like I've been single to years and turned down by a few not so great dudes it's like no wonder your not getting laid a 10 is not going to fuck a two but you could have a five idiot
We need more women talking about this. Aknowledging the fact that 'mom talk' while tempting, does not help is very important. I mean this video is 5 years old, the blackpill becoming more and more mainstream and no other woman youtuber is talking about this in a constructive manner. Good job, following rn
Also until this day i had no idea that this kind of mentality also shows up in the lgbtq community. the effect this could have on trans kids that may already feel lonely is so scary
@@user-mv6yv9ec1b My Bad i'm not a long time follower and just assumed Natalie identifies as a woman. The point still being we need more non cis-male peolple trying to give advice to young guys in a non judgimental and empathetic way. Help them understand the point of view of other genders and groups so that they can set themselves free of self imposed stigma and deprecation
@@user-mv6yv9ec1b another thought, a male soldier in combat who gets sent home for being near an IED blowing up, has he just transitioned to being a woman?
As an ex red piller I really appreciated this video. Throw the negativity behind you. Not all women are like that. The reality for these guys is they got hurt and couldn’t move on from it in a healthy way. I speak from experience.
@@bgbiv7 You are not an ex-redpiller. You are a government agent practicing damage control. Things are getting out of hand for you, the truth is getting out and you shit your pants? tough luck.
Look I wanted to thank You from the bottom of My heart because Your video really helped Me a lot. I lost My family of 16.5 years due to the ex cheating and I was instantly destroyed. I really felt like that I was a hideous monster that was unlovable and I'd never find love again. I actually started believing these people that certain people are just doomed to live life alone because they are just not good enough. The thing is good looking people do have it easier by far but if You fall into this trap YOU WILL NEVER FIND LOVE because You can't find love unless You learn to either not give a shit or learn to love Yourself. We all have redeeming qualities that makes us attractive to the other sex so it's best to just concentrate on bettering Yourself instead of dwelling on Your negatives. So while I'm unattached I'll hit the gym and try for that six pack I've always wanted and start focusing on My positives instead of My negatives.
So glad you learned to love yourself, inceldom is an easy trap to fall into, and I’m glad you were able to find ways to love yourself despite your hardships. Even though I’m a random stranger, I wish you the best of luck in your future.
You got the right attitude my dude! Keep it up and don’t give up hope. I totally feel ya. I was cheated on by my ex fiancé and then my last serious relationship ended due to a lack of emotional and sexual compatibility. I’ve been single for two years now and it’s very easy to fall into that hole of despair, isolation, and self loathing. But you gotta pick yourself back up and make yourself into the person you want to be. Then you can find the kind of love you want to have
【ＩＭＡＧＩＮＥ ＨＯＷ Ａ ＷＯＭＡＮ ＦＥＥＬＳ】
LOVE U
ContraPoints Olay knows how you feel if you know what I mean.
I'll never stop.ever.
THANK YOU FOR THE UPLOAD DARK MOMMY
Imagine how is touch the sky?
I like this.
I lost my mind at the guy trying to justify liking baking by making it appear like some sort of masculine science
He definitely has a case of the fragile masculinity
i was thinking about subscribing to this girl and then i saw ur comment and now i def am. Love ur voice, art style, and vids, keep it up kat
I honestly thought it was a joke at first
Oh hi Katsun. Didn't expect to see you here.
I do a lot of camping and foraging and male fragility is soooo bad. My favorite example is that no man will call it 'sewing', they have to call it 'repairing' or else they'll spontaneously grow a vagina even though sewing is one of the first things you learn when you start spending time in the woods.
We all know how much you people like mocking fragile people.
Nothing says "hypermasculine" like a man who feels the need to explain why baking doesn't make him a woman.
Imagine all the millions of chefs in the world explaining themselves lol
To be fair I think he's poking fun at himself there lol
Roosh V is a grifter who doesn't even believe half the stuff he pushes. If he could make money off it, he would swallow the Blue Pill
There is nothing hypermasculine in a man feeling the need for using the word hypermasculine to describe himself
True.
woman brain: baker
galaxy brain: b r e a d s c i e n t i s t
Top 10 ways to get laid as a chef
GALAXY BRAIN
I'm a woman, and a scientist.
Does that make me an actual FEMOID?!?!?! 😵
HAHAHA 😆
@@stephaniebrady31 no! That word is a horrible word and it’s so painful that people actually use it!
Imagine being so insecure in your gender that you have to justify your hobbies and prove that they're masculine hobbies...
I love the irony of how the phrase “Imagine how a woman feels” is used in that opening text.
My assumption going in was that it meant “Imagine a woman’s inner experience.”
But no, it turned out to mean, “Imagine the external, physical presence of a woman.”
Which seems to be a major part of the problem for incels (and other sexists).
They know all too well how they respond to the outward appearance of women.
But actually taking the time to imagine real women’s experiences is more than they’re interested in doing.
There’s nothing wrong with women. Nobody would hate women if they were a chad. So the problem is not with women but with our genetics.
As a former cell, its meant to pick at isolationist catastrophizing. Physical touch is something I'd imagine most people need, and these guys are really alone, so that pain of it's lack is amplified.
Bro his post had nothing to do with that it ain’t that deep 😭 incels can be sexist but you can’t draw anything of the sort from his post
@@RKLS1234it was a metaphor bud
@@RKLS1234and a good one
I'm sorry as an indian guy I cracked up when i heard the word "chadpreet". the creativity lawl.
Dude all of this is so funny I understand
I died at RICECEL and CURRYCEL wtf😂😂😂😂. i honestly Expected "Tyrone" and "Chang"....but not Chadpreet. Khan would have been better.
The fact that the other two are real names had me floored lol
I Call Bullshit I kinda wish Tyrone started with a Cha like the others. They really let the ball slip on that one.
no literally im half indian and that was so funny to me...i feel like i never see SE asians referenced specifically in online discourse and that took me out
The fact that Roosh feels like he needs to reaffirm his masculinity just because he baked bread is downright absurd
What's ironic about that is there are few more stereotypically alpha professions than head chef. As a profession it's widely known to be over-represented by psychopaths, almost as much as surgeons.
That's insecurity for ya.
not to mention, he'd be a pretty masculine guy if he got rid of his fucking attitude, because that shit isn't "alpha" at all. The fact that he can grow a beard that thick and his facial features alone would make him attractive, but every person on this panet will be instantly turned off because of his god damn personality.
I mean hell, if they want to follow traditional masculinity as their worldview, more power to them, but it's like they forgot that the stereotypical Man "back in the day" was supposed to be emotionally strong enough to endure his family's hardships, but also kind and caring towards his wife and children, and would cherish them above all else, even his own life.
and he certainly didn't need to reaffirm his masculinity every time he did something "girly", because doing that is probably the most "beta" thing a man could ever do.
Eh, I disagree. The man "back in the day" was exactly like Roosh. And I don't mean that as a compliment.
Yes, what you described was the *image* they tried to present, but the true face was and has always been of insecurity and toxic masculinity.
Horricule I like to approach my flower arraigning hobby as a exercise in creating a mathematical model of reality.
Errrg!
Watching a grown man have to justify baking as a hobby to himself was the most insecure thing I think I have ever seen.
For me, the most insecure thing I've seen until now was my friend, a 6'3" man with a beard, typically dressed in biker boots and leather jacket, who started feeling unsure about his masculinity because among all the heavy metal bands he liked he also found out he likes David Bowie. Just let that sink in.
Then I saw this piece about baking science and I have to admit, it takes the cake.
@@Eris_Norregard Literally takes the cake, because it's about baking! 😆
And it’s horrible that he feels like that. Men who bake shouldn’t be shamed
Yes men are insecure, pick on them more if it makes you feel better.
@@John_Malka-tits - how would you come up with that interpretation of the comments above, are you intentionally taking the worst twist possible? The video might be for you.
I mean, hell, I am insecure about looking too soft as a man quite often (though I know it's irrelevant), but do you really think it's about mockery of male insecurity when we laugh about insecurity about bakery? The dude is a damn pick-up artist!
I don’t know how to say this, but you literally saved my life few years ago. I had commented at that time and really used your link to block incel forums. I deleted that comment sometime ago but I just wanted to tell you again that you really really changed my life, specially by sharing your experience, it made it relatable. Love you and have a great life ahead. I hope you read this and it makes your day.
I don’t know about her, but I read this and it made mine :) So happy that you’re doing better now and I hope you have a great life ahead as well!
❤
It made my day, too! Much love to you, whoever you are. ❤
Hey, good job! It's great Natalie could be your entering point, but recovering and changing your life is entirely your doing, I really hope you recognize it and give yourself a whole lotta credit for this. Best wishes to you, brother 👍
[Sand]Çel=It's ØvER lol
I'm not a baker, I'm a wheat architect.
lmao i'm a flour operations specialist
I am the muffin man
okay, this one got me 😂
I am not a baker, I am a gluten expert
Baking is more science than art tho. A great past time for anally retented.
I think the double meaning of the phrase "imagine how a woman feels" fits this video so perfectly.
Incel: "Don’t fuck with me."
Apologies I am big dumb. What's the double meaning?
@@AbhNormal The incels are using "feels" in a literal and physical sense. They can't empathize with a woman's "feelings" because they view women as sex objects, not human beings.
@@hunsinger ah ok. Gotcha👍 That really is disturbing and depressing at the same time
@@hunsinger You still don't understand what incel means. Just go to a forum and see for yourself how they feel about themselves. They view everybody as sex objects not just women, which includes them also. And they judge themselves the harshest.
incel's perceptions of chads & women feels like they watched a couple of those stereotypical high school dramas & proceeded to base their entire worldview on it
I mean, in a lot of cases that's pretty much where it started :/
not to mention the whole incel mental narrative is point for point seen in a lot of songs too (teenage dirtbag by wheetus, anyone?)
That's what I was thinking
Jesus...
blackmagnetictape aw dang that song was catchy :/
I always like to rewatch this vid every so often. The part where she talks about purposefully going on harmful forums, and the rationale behind it reminds me a lot of my own time when i was struggling with an ED and lurked in online forums as well. It's the same thing; people posting themselves, KNOWING that everyone is only going to say harmful things, with no intent of actually helping you. It's an incredibly toxic environment, but in a twisted way its almost addictive. I haven't visited these forums in almost a year, but it also took me physically blocking these sites and pages to get me to stop.
It’s an abusive relationship
Its made worse after you know its no good for you, but youre stuck in a cycle of leaving and coming back
@@dkupkeit's worse than that. One of the things that separates incels from other hate groups is that the method of convincing people to join is not scapegoating, but vindication. For not an insignificant part of the population, the narrative incels try to sell was their real experience or witnessed happening to someone close to them. This makes it that much harder to quit because it isn't convincing someone to hate something they didn't already hate before. Rather, it's promising forgiveness and solace, a modern-day version of church indulgences
@@TheLucidDreamer12 I see definite parallels to the door to door campaigns some by shady congregations like the LDS church or the Jehova’s witnesses. They are deliberately annoying to draw a negative response from people so the poor saps that get roped into it can limp back to the congregation to get love bombed. It’s manipulative af. I’ve also read of men who were in that dark place but happened to have the luck to strike up a relationship-and “the community” turns on them with a vengeance. The worst thing you can do is stray outside the bubble.
@@TheLucidDreamer12 Interesting point. Thanks.
I'm a first time viewer, and oh my god, I'm so impressed. Keep up what you're doing. It's original, unique, entertaining, and exactly what the world needs.
BrodytheCuber I second this amazing amazing content
Same!
Also new here. You had my interest, madam, and now you have my Subscribe flag. *smashed*
Welcome to the wonderful world of ContraPoints. Best political/social channel on RUclips that I am aware of, and it's not even close. So many funny and interesting videos. Enjoy your stay! :)
nope
Pick Up Artists and Garbage Men should really trade names.
T H I S
How does this not have more likes
This is genius, wtf. I had to just sit back and appreciate this comment.
Brilliant
😂😂
*Imagine believing that having sex is the pinnacle of human existance.*
From an evolutionary standpoint, reproduction kinda is.
@@petersmythe6462 forgetting that evolution also bends to those who can adapt to survive to procreate. We can look objectively at animals and their ancestors and go "they didn't adapt to meet their needs; they died off because of this, that or a combination of reasons."
Humans can do the same. Not everyone will get to have sex. It has never been garaunteed. It definitely isn't a "right" designated by society. Some will adapt and change as needed. Others won't.
epundo3 loool
+To Serve Man
If you think sex hormones are the most powerful chemical compulsion in humans, I dare you to eat nothing for a week.
Please. Do yourself the favour to experience what true compulsion is.
I've done it for two days, not voluntarily, and I can assure you that it is WAY more powerful.
And yes I can compare the two because I laid next to a willing woman after not having had sex for 2 years and we didn't do anything. Why? Because I knew we'd regret it later.
Kind of puts a hammer on your hypothesis.
Yeah, sexual compulsion is powerful, but if you think it's the most powerful, you haven't been to the edge of survival. Not even close. Like, you haven't even taken a single step towards it. Sex comes AFTER survival. It's important, but if you don't survive then you can't reproduce.
Yes, your position is totally an outrageous claim that needs more evidence. The only reason you think it isn't is because you, like most people with internet access, live in the lap of luxury and none of your other basic instincs have kicked in, probably ever. Which makes sense, because it normally only kicks in once you're safe and well-fed.
@equndo No, sex is not the pinnacle of human existence. But let's not pretend it can't be an important part of human existence.
"These pricks care enough about my pussy to be an asshole about my dick" has to be THE most poetic and confusingly surreal sentence I've heard in my life! Well done
tru! it was epic the first time i watched. 4 years on, still a banger.
@@errrkt yeah guess I'm kinda new to the channel. It's been a delight so far
@@nikolasgiannakidis2881 Yesssss. Come to the Contra-side.
@@errrkt burger
@@mygills3050 after England gained some sense a quit following our advice and again made prostitution legal, they don’t hv this problem anymore
incels are the clearest sign to me that support for mental wellness, especially for men, is at an all-time crisis. this is a nightmare.
The Liberation it’s especially frustrating to see the neoliberal brand of feminism where “it’s feminist when woman does thing” (usually cis, white, conservative women) which does nothing to address intersectionality, transfeminism, or toxic masculinity.
The Liberation Feminism turned things upside down? When did women get that memo? I still have the same fears as my great-great-grandmother, but whatever.
@@theliberation9061 "You dicks" are the ones who made the system, so if you're fed up with it, then help change it instead of waiting around for women to do it for you.
If your answer is "the world was better when half of humans had less agency, we need to go back to that" then you're doing it wrong.
@@theliberation9061
It was even harder to get laid before feminism. The chad class was even more rigid.
Just like capitalism is preferable to feudalism, dating is preferable to arranged and economic relationships.
And the pandemic made this even worse too :(
"Ultra masculine bread scientist"
I'm dying. Roosh can't be a real person, he is a caricature, a parody of a human being.
misanthropicbyday It shows you what an insecure simp he really is, when he has to justify something as neutral and inane as a love for baking with a reason why it makes him ultra masculine.
Scary how many of these unanimated cartoon characters are becoming real sources of trust and information in current society. Or at least a misguided subset of it.
I mean it could be a ploy. In my experience ladies have liked that I bake bread and pastries and can cook an elaborate meal. I think they appreciate the skill and effort. Of course I am dead inside in regards to romance so I'm at least a good friend to have
yeah, and where did he get the idea that cooking is somehow never associated with the masculine?
Many famous chefs have a notoriously masculine aura such as Gordon Ramsay, or even just taking RUclips's home cook as an example; Binging with Babish.
"I garden. I'm not a woman though. Gardening is like science and men like science. I'm a flower scientist"
(hears "110 pounds of recreational equipment")
Brain: *T h a t ' s a l o t o f d i l d o s.*
*THAT'S A LOTTA DAMAGE*
IDK those sex machines can weigh an awful lot...I hear.
Chesh The Cat It could just be a 110 pound sex robot.
best comment tbh
Or a few lead dildos
Im not saying this for pat on the back but just to let it out. This video made me realize a few things about myself, I was slowly leaning towards a few beliefs of incels over time through isolation. I opened my eyes to how I was treating myself and loved my ones around me, I was disgusted and ashamed of myself and decided to turn my life around. I’ve been working out, eating healthy, and seeing a therapist and I may not be where I want to be in my life but I’m so much happier than I used to be. I’m becoming more confident in myself as a man and my looks, I take care of myself like I should. Im not always on top of my game, but I’m taking a step in the right direction. When you want & strive to be better than you were, you can and will achieve greatness.
You should be very proud of yourself! It takes an incredibly strong person to look themself in the mirror and decide to pull themselves out of the dark hole they're in. It won't always be linear progress but you're already doing so much better than you were. I wish you all the best, you deserve to live a happy, full and confident life!
Same here. I've realized that there are specific women who have treated me poorly in my life, but they are not represenatie of all women. I, just like you have also lost a lot of weight, I am down to a weight where I am only slightly overweight. I've gotten and held a good job. I just find it very hard not to hate my self still.
thats really fantastic dude :) you deserve to be happy, and I'm happy for you. you clearly have a very strong character and willpower, I hope you are proud of that
@@alfsleftnut9224 Congratulation! you have taken the first steps. It wont always be easy and as the comment above says healing is not linear but you are doing great and I hope your journey will continue on well!
This comment made me really happy and inspired to try more too
You can like baking as a guy. Remember the people laughing at you aren't getting the brownies.
Yeah I've noticed there's so many guy-chefs on the TV
It's really strange. Men can naturally become famous chefs, cooks and culinary authors, but women, who are normally associated with cooking, cannot as easily achieve these things.
@@ASBlueful it's almost as if society just expects women to be able to cook and when they are really good it's just another girl who can cook.
@Anon Ymous I sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic.
@@ASBlueful well let's hope he never meets a woman that is better at anything than him because then he'd be sooooooo pissed
Dude, most people think that being able to cook well is attractive
It is, quite literally, pretty hot
When a guy can't cook I automatically lose interest. I imagine myself having to do all the work. As much as I love to cook and in very good at it, I don't want it to become a chore. In a relationship you should share the cooking.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet You want a beta male as a partner? Fuck off.
@@normiesaredegeneratesthatn3331 Sir, you sound like you can't even make boxed mac n cheese.
@@normiesaredegeneratesthatn3331 Cool. Get a hobby, honey.
A friend posted this and i think it's perfect for this video.
"You can't hate yourself into a version of yourself you love"
I guess it depends on what kind of person you are.
I work off of negativity. I work off of telling myself that I’m not smart enough, not attractive enough, not in good enough shape, not hard-working enough, etc.
I take this as a challenge to prove myself wrong. I know I can change all of this, so knowing I can become better motivates me.
It depends on the person I guess, but I will grow a lot more in a room of people that hate me and talk shit about me than being in a room around people who tell me to love myself.
@@hacked6613 I get that fuel more than empty platitudes. We reduce love to not allowing anything critical, but I think if we expand our understanding of self-love to include growth, we will improve and be better. You clearly ultimately and deeply love yourself and your ability to challenge yourself and grow in areas YOU desire (positive fuel). Our egos need to be balanced so we can be critical and better and empathetic and human. The point is to not bash ourselves into defeat or brush off any attempt to become better and pretend we are already and always perfect. True self-love fuels you into the version of yourself you desire.
anderson being physically attractive is hardly worth the trouble. It isn’t even that important to begin with.
Yes, beauty is power. However, a lot of other things are power as well, like being smart, having capital, physical prowess etcetera.
Even so, having power/influence is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Experiencing a happy life has infinite mediums, power or love are just two of them.
Colleen Hemsing
You put that quite eloquently, thanks for another viewpoint, I really appreciate it :)
anderson
You can't just blame your face when skeletons are getting pussy!
"Whatever hurts is true" - is a quote that has been burned into my brain because of you, and I mean that in the best way possible.
Was never an incel, but this video seriously opened my eyes and made me consider a lot of things about myself, and why others are the way they are. Thank you.
Whatever hurts...not necessarily have to be true... It's a blatant generalization
@@barnaliadhikary9421 It's a different perspective you can use to remind yourself that you're often your worst enemy.
That's the negativity bias, not objectively true. We always feel like it is true ifnit hits nard and makes us uncomfortable and it's so that truth often does that. But there's a difference between the discomfort of learning something about ourselves with actual growth and the discomfort of self flagellation and fatalism.
"I am outing myself as a Baker"
The epitome of privilege
I once had a teacher say: "I gotta come out... As a Spiegel subscriber."
We were all very disappointed
Lol my dad's a pastor and he was watching a very serious video about "closet christians" in the workplace, afraid to be "outed" as a christian because they believe they'll be fired.
Edit: and he was also very serious about it... I came out about 2 years later 😂
Fynn Mint what was his reaction???
@@phoebe.aur0ra i too am interested in the response
@@valeriapino2721 lmao I came out as gay and enby and he still doesnt use my name, and also told me that he believes God will make me straight... Needless to say I've lost a fair amount of respect for him
Edit: Meanwhile I still wear makeup, paint my nails, and most everyone else calls me Fynn so...
My favorite thing about incels is that they think they know everything about women despite rarely ever talking to one
*never talking to one
The very definition of incel means you try to have be in a intimate relationship, to do that you need to talk to woman.
Oh, but don't you know? All that pseudoscience they read makes them eXpErTs
@@claudioestrella1160 Sending unsolicited dick pics and messaging girls with "hey" from your blank account doesn't really constitute meaningful conversation.
@@ettinakitten5047 all incels do that?
I thought the opening line “Imagine how a woman feels...” was going to be an invitation to see the world from a woman’s perspective. That was an unpleasant moment of adjustment.
I know, right?
@@spliffrotation7238 ...you have problems, man. SERIOUS problems.
ih8myfriends
The first bit sounded pretty good to me. Second part took a turn though...
@@spliffrotation7238 ruclips.net/video/_n5E7feJHw0/видео.html
Stran Gling-twittur-hores Hello. We’re people. People should care about each other.
Abigail really imagined a woman so hard she realized she was one. Iconic
"Rope fuel"
...maybe the whole internet-thing wasnt such a good idea afterall.
Three Arrows could you debunk either the Coudenhove-Kalergi or the Rothschild conspiracy theories?
Sir Jaojao I’ll be honest I’ve heard of Rothschild conspiracy theories but not the other one. I’m sure if Three Arrows does a video on it the video will be great
Internet confirmed for worst thing humanity created
I was still concussed by "roastie".
Love your work, by the way.
The enternet is great because I use it for entertainment and education and not for digging into a bunch of morbid bullshit.🎈
This sort of reminds me of Pro-Anorexia/Pro-Bulimia communities where the goal isn't recovery, but encouragement of unhealthy habits and negative body images. They bond over hating their own appearances. Even if other people tell them they look fine as they are, they don't believe it.
I guess there's some comfort in misery.
That's what a femoid would say
it's somewhat similar to pro ana communities but now, from what I've seen, they try to hide their toxic behavior by being "positive" and by not publicly body shaming other people but they still encourage each other to reach their goals and will shame their own bodies for not being good enough.
unless it's a post meant to "motivate" other people (often called meanspo) they will avoid shaming anyone for being fat, but the underlying self hatred and toxic behavior is still there.
"misery loves company"
I thought about this often during the video, eating disorders and similar things are not discussed from men's perspectives enough and it's not fair, men need mental help too men need therapy men need emotional support and that should be seen as the norm by society
@Heart Of Stars that's what is so strange about these guys. The ones on the mgtow channels want to "Bring back the patriarchy " which never left and is that main cause of their mental problems. Even the women they were abused by are most likely fucked up because of patriarchy.
I’m a lesbian and it’s honestly scaring me how much I relate to these straight man incel posts. Because of platforms like tumblr and especially tiktok now, there is very much cutesy wlw couples content, which is definitely a huge step forward when it comes to the normalization of wlw community. But all these sugary posts kind of rose-tint the wlw experience, and I think a lot of people are unaware of how incredibly existentially lonely a lot of us feel. Like shit, our odds of finding love are at least tenfold worse than straight men. Not to mention the crippling self disgust from living in a world that treats us as a porn category. Just some thoughts
I had a real eye opener when my business was expanding into a smaller market and my go-to kick ass number one employee refused to go run the smaller market, even for a ton of money, because she was a lesbian and moving from a big city to a small town would essentially destroy her entire social life.
It hadn't even occured to me. I mean , she does fine living where we do, but it's something she has to think about and be aware of and miss opportunities for.
This is such a good remark! I always feel kinda embarrassed about my lack of romantic experience, especially compared to my friends, but I can truly count on one hand the number of times I've met a girl that was both my age, gay and single, so it's not actually that surprising now that I think about it. Like yeah there are apps but it's so forced and weird and energy-taking... Like you said loneliness is way more spread than these men seem to think.
As a bisexual and polyamorous woman it's extremely hard to find woman online, most completely lesbian woman I've interacted with don't want to date me because I'm bi. When looking for a girlfriend to join my existing relationship it was even harder since most that would even go well were either far away or would ghost me. Eventually I found someone in college and luckily am in a happy relationship with my lovers(we all date eachother). In my small village the only woman who would try to go for me were purely sexual and secretive woman not interested in relationships. Moving to a bigger place has definitely made it easier to find in person queer identifying people like me.
The term incel was actually originally established by a bisexual woman to include marginalised people (amongst others) who were involuntarily celibate due to their circumstances, so it's really not so strange that you relate to base incel ideas. It's very unfortunate that this term got hijacked by the incels of today.
@@phoenix7415 I did not know that. Very interesting.
there has just been some cruel murders in Turkey and i keep seeing word "incel" in twitter about it. I wondered what it was. this video was really informing. thanks.
Unrelated to incels, but as someone with anxiety this is the best explanation of catastrophizing I've ever heard.
Masochistic epistemology also hit home.
Yes, I was watching that part and was like "I've had that thought process about my job countless times.."
On point
True
Yea i always feel like a child of the apocalypse alot of the time :/ and not even an incel
I am a Chadcel. I am unable to get laid due to my unbelievable Chad energy.
🙌🏻
I can feel the radiations through your comment oh god oh no.exe
i can feel the chad energy through this comment
That's monk mode
Amen to that.
"I am not a woman. I am ultra masculine as you can see" is one of the most insecure things I've heard a man say.
uncensored008
That was so fucking sad. I almost felt bad for him.
hello I am man as you can visualize by the beard but even me, man with beard, enjoys sunsets???
It really is. It's not as if baking or liking artwork suddenly causes the average woman to say "Welp, he seemed masculine but obviously a man who can stand cooking is obviously an unsuitable mating partner". Perhaps there are some women who do think like that but it occurs to me that they're not a majority.
Yep, I was almost expecting him to pull down his pants to prove it at that stage lol
I think it's possible that Roosh and other "Alphas" might themselves be Trans or otherwise queer in some way. I think it would help explain their obsession with but also deep confusion over masculinity.
Few things have helped me in my transition more than Natalie saying that her brutal self-criticism began to affect how she saw other trans women. I immediately recognized i was starting to do the same and my life has been so much better since I started working on loving myself
I've had a similar epiphany, that if I kept being hateful towards myself it would eventually contaminate how I treat others, so I'm trying to be gentler to myself.
To this day “never heard a song in his entire life” haunts me. Why do Chads reject the gift of music
I didn't understand that. What is that referring to? Is it actually a thing that "chads" don't like music?
Never heard music is a metaphor, instead of hearing, they're living in their own music. That's what they mean.
@@sebastianswan7975 Oh, huh. I never heard that metaphor before. Thanks for explaining
@• •••• Your snarkiness is really attractive. Good to know when people have genuine questions, you'll be there to answer honestly. Get bent.
@@deepstariaenigmatica2601 lmao
The original Chad is a joke, it's not supposed to be a desirable person. It's based on an older meme called virgin walk, which is the virgin as presented on the left. The Chad on the right is actually making fun of the entire red pill ideology by taking everything about the virgin and making it as far from it as possible, pretending it's something desirable when it's just silly. The reason Chad has never listened to music in his life is just because the virgin is listening to music in the virgin walk.
I respect the pain Natalie is willing to go through for us. I empathize greatly.
Oh my god it's my favorite atheists! Being back Kennith
Omg, it’s my atheist dadz! Get that next Peterson chapter out, or I’m going to send you Butterflies!!!! 😘
Ayyyy, good to see you guys here!
My favourite couple on the internets!
Yay! The internets favorite gay couple. All praise the cheese wizard.
Imagine being so insecure in your masculinity that you feel the need to publicly defend cooking your own food.
Um excuse me, it's bread scientist. LOL! That gets me every time.
bread science*
But, does he 'engineer a gluten-based architectural construct w/tomatoes, deli meat and mustard'? Or must he have a 'femoid' (?) come make his sammich for him? Cripes, I'll bet Roosh gets all kinds of 'tingly feelings' watching the Great British Baking Show where men (and women) of all types are just whipping out the 'Chemistry and Science' of biscuits and cakes...
Imagine being someone who's such a conformist, that being "outcast" makes them go on murderous rampages.
I agree! The immature western culture breeds insecurity for some white men
I have to say I'm watching your video right now, not even done watching, just subscribed and am pausing the video to type this: Thank you. I am a 36 year old man, happily married for 7 years, but your videos have truly helped me understand so much beyond the scope of my own small corner of the world. You are an inspiration to me and your intellect is staggering, but most importantly, I believe you make a genuine effort to sincerely understand the topics you cover. Keep up the great fucking work. 😊
I'm a woman but...i can't bake bread-
/spontaneously grows a massive beard, voice drops by 8 octaves/
@Spanakoptia07 tf you're on about
@Spanakoptia07 I think they were joking
I wish
@Solve Everything not you obviously
Dyodoleu I am a man who bakes bread. But don’t worry I’m a bread scientist.
@Spanakoptia07 u serious?
Was put off by the youtube recommendation because "ugh, not more stupid incel drama" - but oh my god, this whole thing is on point and absolutely hilariously written. Really love all the set and costume designs too - the flavor they add makes this quite unique for RUclips. Will definitely jump into future videos more quickly!
I can totally understand why people would get turned off after the ridiculous deluge of videos on the topic that just take super surface-level skimming of the topic. But that's why this channel is so great. Deep dives from the perspective of someone who also understands a lot of the types of people in the topic at hand, while still being highly opposed to them. That understanding makes being able to analyze, debunk, and portray these people so much more effective. Add in a healthy mix of production value and you've got some quality stuff.
Had the exact same thoughts!
Is that from gyruess? NES classic?
Same, I feel like the youtube algorithm has been desperate for me to watch this for months, but I just didn't want to engage with anything incel... glad I finally gave in, though; this is the best kind of thoughtful original content
KingBobXIV I was very similar to you: I had this video in the recommends for _months_ but I thought I know enough about the subject, I don't need this. But (1) this was so well made and presented even all the stuff I knew was worth it, (2) I found the trans parallel very interesting.
I really hope Roosh starts taking up more "feminine" hobbies so we can see what excuses he comes up with..
"So I've decided to out myself as someone who knits...but you know, knitting does involve a complex branch of mathematics to create unique patterns and algorithms with wool, and as men are more mathematically minded"
"Bread Science"
Bread *Scientist
"So I've recently started frequenting gay bars... but you know, riding dick in squatting reverse cowgirl is a physically demanding activity that requires healthy muscle mass and endurance in order to maintain rhythm; men are really more suited to it than women." - Roosh, circa 2018
@@sumanoskae this is probably the best one so far
That part of the video, and this thread, are pure gold. XD
I've come back to this video again and again for years. This is what gave me valuable tools against lifelong self loathing- which I have spread to other people as much as I possibly can- that I had never heard the like of before. It's also what got me to wake up and recognize my own dysphoria. Five years later, I'm a man. And I'm more myself and more alive than I ever thought I could be.
I can't thank you enough.
You were never an incel
Yoooo trans brother!! Congrats on your discovery and welcome to the club ~ or happy one year anniversary to the club, either one :)
U can’t make women your entire reason for living
@@normiesaredegeneratesthatn3331 yikes
@@marciamakesmusic Go fuck yourself, pal.
Amen to this. After being rejected by this lovely girl I was dating, I realized how important one's time alone or with friends really is.
How in order to be in a relationship, you have to make many sacrifices. You have to find time that you might not have in a given moment.
I've done so many great things in the past could months. Been learning how to play the guitar, been to the Hamptons with friends from my club, seen interesting movies, laughed with my siblings.
Really. There's so much to life most people forget.
A relationship would be awesome. But it'll come when you're finally ready to commit I guess.
That does not mean one can't have fun in the meantime ; )
I mean reproduction is the primary goal of all living species on Earth, but sure just disregard biology
@@mythvrl You are not a fucking animal, as a human being your life can go way beyond just reproduction. Creating art, learning, philosophy, friendship, family, contemplating the beauty of the universe.
I bake
But I no women
I big man
Bake science
Men like science
reminds me of Contrapoint's intro in her video about men
Brillant!!
its really easy to put people down
I like cookies
@@cocopus he put himself down.
This digital self-harm is really common in people with eating disorders, especially forms of anorexia. There's thinspo for "goals" and meager recipes and hatespo for shaming the posters into getting sicker
Yeah it's not unique to incels and its do harmful. Attitude cant fix everything, but it will certainly help, and online forums often just encourage a toxic mindset that makes the core issue harder to solve.
I came to the comments to see if anyone posted this. The meanspo is so similar. I definitely understood it more relating it to this.
@@RCrystal34 Thinking about it like meanspo really helped it click in my head for me too. (Also cool name)
this was exactly my thought. 2014 tumblr *shudders*
This is one of the worst, but the problem is much larger than this one particular community. A while back I wanted to understand OCD better so I headed over to the OCD subreddit... My god, the suicide posts, the hopelessness. It's the same thing - a belief that nothing can change, that their disability cripples them for life and there are no options left etc... If you were diagnosed and wound up there you could easily be poisoned by the mindset there. To put things in perspective there is another support subreddit for quitting caffeine. You see people there talking about taking months to recover, about getting their emotions back etc... I've never heard anyone talk about caffeine withdrawal like that before. It just goes to show that even something that isn't a big deal to most people can be made to look like the end of the world when you wind up on these forums. I am largely against support forums for this reason - you'll only see the worst of the worst and there is no therapist or neutral mediator steering healthy conversation - it's just a bunch of miserable people feeding off of each others skewed and distorted ideas.
Someone on another RUclips video made a chilling comment - if you've spent a lot of time in very angry or polarizing places on the internet, there's a very good chance that your ideas and thoughts aren't really yours anymore. Months away will change and reset you. It is very easy to get lost in that kind of stuff.
I've found a similar environment in chronic illness support forums. There's the positive side where you find people who understand what you go through, but there's also so much hopelessness and fear and helplessness and people who wish they were dead. I had to get away from that before I started living my life to its full potential despite the limitations of my illness.
I mean, OCD is a mental illness that can be debilitating so it seems a bit irresponsible to compare it to incels, if a guy with incel ideology never enters a forum and is left untreated, he'll either grow out of it or just be bitter. If someone with ocd Is left untreated, they'll likely try to kill themselves.
Getting help for OCD is so much harder than getting help for being an incel because if you tell someone you view women poorly, they'll correct you and explain why you're wrong. If you tell people your symptoms of OCD, they might very well treat you like a monster or freak, because not only is mental illness still stigmatised, a huge symptom of OCD, is your mind floods you with horrible thoughts, not 'I'm not good enough' kind of thoughts but 'I can't hold a kitchen knife or I'm afraid I'll stab my sister', now that person would never stab their sister but the illness in their minds is trying to convince them that they are capable of it. If you told the average neurotypical person that you struggled with that thought, what's the likelihood they'll be educated enough on ocd to understand that ocd often floods you with violent and hateful thoughts but they don't reflect on the person themselves? I've seen people online try to talk honestly about OCD and be told they're monsters and that their thoughts are all true reflections of themselves, even though that's literally the opposite of the truth of the illness. Now imagine getting that same hate and fear, but from your closest friends and family
I'm personally very lucky, I'm able to imagine a very happy life for myself with my OCD and all, so I'm far from a doomer, but I think it's so unfair to judge others by myself. Just because I'm lucky enough to have a support system and access to therapy, doesn't mean everyone is, and I'm in no place to tell someone worse off than me that they should feel better and their life isn't that bad. Especially when a lot of doomerism around OCD isn't about the actual illness itself, it's about the social stigma around it. Having to hide an essential part of who you are out of gear your friends will think you're a monster is.. Well, not good for you mentally.
Not attacking you or anything , I just thought your comparison was kind of poorly thought out. It's like being surprised and horrified that a support group for depression talks in depth about suicide attempts, in order to heal from something awful, you need to actually say what that awful thing. Thanks for hearing me out!
I've come across this in the most innocent communities.
For example the language learning community. Most people don't know this, but people learning a language/languages can sometimes form into, well, a community. And not just a bunch of turtorials about learning Japanese.
But, oh man, the moment you're in, the moment you're like deep in, that's when stuff turns nasty. After you've taken your "Japanese for beginners" course online, that's when you'll fall into a world of insecure people all bullying each other.
We have the six levels (A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2) and we can't be obsessed about skulls, but we will be obsessed about the amount of words you know and the level you think you have. (There are exams, but people will often not take those and just guess the level they are at.)
And the term that everything evolves around is "native speaker". That's our version of Chad or getting a woman. With people in the community often having thoughts like "I'll never be a native speaker. They'll always be able to clock me." As a lot of people want to learn a language and speak it so well that native speakers don't notice that language is not their native language. (Basically passing.)
A LOT of people are positive in the community. With videos like "how to start speaking to native speakers" which contradict this whole idea by saying "even YOU can talk to native speakers". Which is why I think this community hasn't become as toxic as some others yet. But man, that community can send you down some dark paths. Forcing yourself to memorize useless thousands of words of vocabulary for no real reason. Just because some internet stranger told you "you'll only be a native speaker if you know 10 000 words. Otherwise you'll never be a native speaker."
I think every community centered around getting good at something, like music art or learning a language, has to deal with this problem.
I find this on a lot of autistic places. Simply suggesting you can work on social skills and anxiety gets me labeled as "ablest" and "hating myself". Like I don't want to improve myself for others. I just want to be able to go to the shop without having a panic attack. And thanks to working on things for years... I can.
Oh jeez, the OCD thing is extra terrifying since OCD can make you, yknow, obsess. I could totally see browsing the doom posts on r/OCD becoming a compulsion that just keeps bringing its victim lower and lower.
I can’t imagine something worse for my OCD than a hive of others who have been brought low by it and are encouraging me to follow every compulsion… jeez. This type of cultish hopelessness is extra potent to the obsessive thought spirals that OCD creates, and it’s quite worrying that there’s a community like that which specifically targets people with OCD.
I though I was an incel. I got roped into the MGTOW community but thankfully i escaped before it was too late. Now I’m just Matthew :)
Hey congrats man!
sorry for my stupidity, but whats mgtow? i hear it a lot but idk what it is.
Hell yeah Mathew, glad you saved your butt :))
@@oka5969 Men Go Their Own Way. Not absolutely sure what the movement is exactly about but I think it's a reaction to third wave feminism. You should look it up
@@eggsandbananas4983 yeah, just googled it..,,,.aaaaand it's stupid af lmao. Seems like some sad dudes wanting something to blame their patheticness for, from what I understood lol. Thanks for explaining!!
A man saying the words: "I am ultra masculine" is about the cringiest thing ive ever heard.
@Fat Face Bork Laser you cannot possibly be dumb enough to not get why that's cringe.
on the same level as calling yourself an alpha/sigma male
Watch her video about cringe culture
@Succubi Seduction you're a simp for men, it would seem.
@Succubi Seduction so you're calling men simps? Wow that sounds very misandrist. Nice try, simp.
Something about the phrase "Chads of color" is incredibly funny to me
COC
It combines a somewhat stiff-sounding, 'politically correct' phrase "people of color", with a memey, informal, and non-politically-correct word Chad. The contrast is funny.
@@squashfei8907
hehe cock
Some mgtow will see this thread and adopt this phrase
@@BlackLivesMatter23 ...fuck.
Jesus, coming back and watching this again after several years I am sorry to say I had forgotten just how good Natalie is and just how educational her content can be.
What if we create an incel rehabilitation forum, made up of guys complimenting each other and helping the other guys on there to get into relationships and accept rejection.
It shall be called “The Wingmen”
Let's get on in then!
Hell yea
Yeeeees
Hell yeah that actually sounds like a good idea
It's possible! We've already got places like /r/IncelsWithoutHate and /r/ExRedPill
35 minutes on incels, I thought, really how indulgent is this going to be?...35 minutes later, holy shit this is better than a thousand bad thinkpieces. Bravo
Happy you found it useful!
"Thirty-five Minutes?!" ~Destiny.
ted mills jokes on you. Those people don't think
I lost my shit at you saying "take me, mommy" to the sea. This was my first time watching a video on this channel, and I loved it!!! Really well done.
Anita Mozaffari My same exact thoughts. 😳
Same for me, I subscribed because of that.
17:54 lol
“I used to live as a man, and I’m not proud of that” had me cackling
yeah cause it really sucks when youre not a tall handsome male
Literally had to switch teams
this digital self harm you mentioned very much reminds of my days in pro eating disorder forums. it's scary how similar all these kinds of forums really are. glad you got out of this fruitless hellhole too :)
As someone who is in the early stages of an eating disorder myself, it's good to see others recovering, and it gives me hope that I can do better in due time. BTW You have a great taste in music if your pfp is from where I think it is.
Same with cutting forums/tags on tumblr. They really fueled my self harm habits in high school
Exactly! This is what I thought to
those forums are entertaining making fun of the mentally ill and stuff its maybe a hellhole from ur perspective but from mine its amazing to see people kys over words it makes me feel 2 things 1 im powerfull to kill people with words 2 people are stupit and weak i mainly feel 2 and it mostly is true because irl im a bit of a cunt yes but i can take a joke this youtube comment section is probably full of normies who make the same mistake as these incels they take it to siriously i got on the internet on the age of 7 4chan when i was 8 i tought me one thing dont take the internet seriusly yes i got called mean words online at a yung age but that made me harden my emotions and 50/50 on those forums are enabelers that just want to see the world go crazy
@@kaiserkrebs6631 I would pity you had I not the certainty that you are a child.
Can I say something I just figured out?: It is so empowering it is to hear Nat say transphobic things aloud every episode!
I'm not kidding, every episode she says something really really really fucked up and I just laugh and cry and laugh again.
Because those aren't the things I hear people say, they aren't the ordinary transphobic things people say when I'm passing, or that people accidentally let slip out. Those are the transphobisms so transphobic that the only person I hear them from is me. In my own goddamn head.
So it makes me amazingly happy to hear them come out of her lips. Because it confirms that I'm not alone in all the hatred I've managed to internalize. Because it takes away the shameful secretive power of the thoughts I've never been able to explain to others. And because it shows how bitter, and small and ordinary is that thought, coming off of so many bitter and small and ordinary characters' lips. Well, maybe they aren't so ordinary. But they aren't monsters, they're humans who are silly and who I can imagine forgiving. I can suddenly imagine forgiving myself, too, for all the hateful things I think to myself.
So thank you, Nat, if you ever see this, for all you do for us. For all you've done for me.
I don't wish any appropriation of your self awareness. It's been a struggle for me going on decades. I've struggled with internal discussions, and Natalie (and Olly of Philosophy Tube) do an excellent focus on the emotional mind. This understanding, this empathy to see the human side of oneself, and express that toward another is a skill Natalie is doing very well.
Really, isn't that just the natural draw to her? She's allowed us in, and I have worked so hard to adjust myself to my awkward vulnerabilities. This is decades of work, and at my age, the introspection naturally occurs. Life has a limit. I'm glad to read what you wrote, as Natalie has validated both of us, you affirm thinking processes like myself. It's that I have what I think is a long list of things to worry about, but who doesn't? To let it be, and just be is really what I've wanted far too long. We all have our different focus, our reasons, and that's what's so wonderful about Natalie and so many who bring their lives here. It's Ok to be.
💚
i mean, honestly, all jokes aside--this is really, genuinely sad. i don't mean pathetic or pitiable, but just straight depressing.
@leaves autumn Did you even watch the video? The point is that although some may be very ugly or just slightly below average, it's like an online self-harm chamber. Contra points (lol) out how there are short men who still get laid, and how a lot of incels are like that because they refuse to believe that people don't like their attitude. She highlights a post at one point where the incel literally denies it.
First off, maybe it wasn't the intention but that last "How about an Asian guy?" claim just seems like you're saying that an asian guy is inherently unatractive, which I believe is not true, I've seen a lot of asian guys and women who are atractive, and if you're saying that because of their height, they can still be atractive even with that and they can still be tall.
Either way, even though things like: height, face and body physique, can be very important things to a straight woman, I think is no different to how we straight males value those sorts of things as well in a woman, for me even "resigning" can be kind of harmful, not that being ugly is bad in any way, but it's pretty obvious that when you're unattractive you have to find new and different ways to get people into you. Specially, because "beauty" in some respects can be subjective, some of it is completely biological, sure, but a good chunk of it depends on the person. The problem with incels is not just the fact that they're "unatractive", hell, a whole lot of them are average looking guys, is that they create themselves an incredibly toxic environment that doesn't allow them to grow up as people. In this world there are pretty people, ugly people, average looking people, short, tall people, you name it. But at the end of the day, you should stop getting so caught up on those things and just learn to appreciate yourself as a person, you and nobody else.
a female doesn't know what depression is, females have an easy ride in life, just look at how few homeless women there are, my government puts females at the top of the list for housing even before a homeless man, something needs to change in this world, men are 2nd class citizens, if I ever kill myself i will hang myself in the town centre to punish the government.
@leaves autumn white women don't find Asian men attractive??? Lol have you ever heard of kpop fans, they're crazy over Asian guys. It's really about your attitude
@leaves autumn that hasn't been my experience. Men I have seen who say they are attracted to "intelligent women and nice women" just go for the ones that just go for the ones that are just pretty nothing more. I'll just say this once and for all, looks at the end of the day don't matter, staying in the corner mumbling to your will never let you find some one would and would just be a self fulfilled prophesy. And if every woman you have met dissed you. I feel like that is on you and how you act. In other words Grow the fuck up and get over high school. Depression and self hate is very toxic I have been in that self hate phase. Its not pretty
Girl your videos are literally a work of art, can't wait to binge the rest
girl?
Deluded sick minded man *
You ever think humanity in general has an unhealthy obsession with romantic relationships specifically?
This is just like capitalism.
A few men have all the money, all the power. The rest are, well... Angry.
Similarly, a few chads have all the women, all the sex.
I predict something similar to a worker's revolution.
Only in this case it will be sexually frustrated men.
@@bullymaguire2061 the only way men are seizing the means of production is if they all spontaneously become gay.
"Unhealthy" lmao wtf ?
@@bullymaguire2061 At least you got the troll face php or I would be genuinely worried
@Symone Ham these people aint obessed with relationships its just dat they aint attractive enought to get casual sex, so havin a gf is the only way to get pussy, if some doesnt seem happy it means dat the sex aint good or dat the sex is becoming do secondary dat its gettin boring.
Theres women chasin relationships but for dem its more about self-esteem, some foid almost need a bf to breathe but i believe its a minority
it’s funny that these people got “Red pill” from a movie made by trans sisters.
They were men when they made it. The kind of nerds that could write on those incels forums.
It's from total recall
Nah they were women when they made it, just not out yet. The original script for The Matrix had a ton of LGBTish content that got cut by the studio. Like for instance, there was both a man and a woman cast to play "Switch" since they were one gender in the Matrix and another in the real world (I don't remember which is which)
It's a meme from a movie made by two trans women where a black man offers to explain the truth about the world to a white man. The irony is so thick.
Not to mention, it's just nerdy as fuck and they pass it off as this serious philosophy by which to live their lives.
that "masochistic epistemology" idea really hit home.
Adam Neely I've often felt that way myself, and I've never had a phrase to describe it. Now having seen the idea thrown out there, I can't help but imagine it's a super common mindset.
:O Adam Neely watches your videos :D
"You'll never make it as a musician." "Some people have that musical gift and you don't." "You don't have what it takes."
Over time though, it's possible to turn the thought of "it hurts so it must be true", to "it hurts, and i'll prove it's false."
Big fan of your vids man!😁
I love you Adam and your Channel, Inspired me everyday. Also pretty awesome you follow ContraPoints
Had to look up epistemology
As a trans woman, you are one of the few people who can actually be credible when talking about what heterosexual relationships are like from both ends of the spectrum. Great video!
lmao ur still a guy 😂
Digital self-harm is a phrase I absolutely needed to see. I wish it had somehow happened upon me earlier, but a few months ago I had to quit twitter cold turkey because I realized that it was making me so incredibly miserable. I was intentionally exposing myself to internet things that made me unhappy and I rationalized to myself that it was more important to "keep up with what's going on in the world." Some of it was politics, but a LOT of it was bullshit internet Discourse that was just... awful. And I just kept going on twitter, constantly, because of that rush, the relief of being in the know, of getting in on all the memes as they happened, because it felt so important to be completely informed always. It's not exactly the same as the incel digital self-harm you're talking about, but it is definitely very similar, and I think a lot more people are engaging in digital self-harm than realize it.
Relatable. I felt the same with facebook. I quit in February and never looked back. It's a very unhealthy space
I have been pondering the effects of emotional self-harm. And I too know that rush, the relief of being in the know. Trying to ride the Zeitgeist. I don't have an answer, I try to be careful in what media I consume. As the good Dr. Timothy Leary said. "The brain is a photovore. Your brain, my brain, our brains live on light. Just as the body needs air and carbohydrates, our brains are starved for light, for illumination, for revelation."
Kate, you made a good choice. Leave websites and circles online that make you feel genuinely distressed, unhappy and leading you the wrong way. Im so glad you feel better, and I know how you feel, Ive done the same.
Yes, I know what you mean! I always look for the sexist/racist/etc. commentary on social media- Interesting stuff, but it makes me a little bit too angry for my own sake ^^'
It's actually a pretty important self help tactic for people, especially those with anxiety, to take breaks from online, simply because it can be so overstimulating it can trigger anxiety or exuberate it without you even knowing, I think people should look at this as the same way of getting enough light, sleep and other things in the day, take some time away from the internet sometimes and focus on the here and now for a cabin whatever way works, when you need it (obviously some have higher thresholds than others)
Wow! This actually made me realize just how much digital self-harming is going on on the internet nowadays, it made me realize just how much I've engaged in digital self-harm!
Now, excuse me while I go back and watch this video 15 more times to fully absorb the majesty that is a new Contrapoints video!
Digital self-harm is such a difficult thing to recognize. Largely because so much of it is done behind a mask of relative anonymity.
I think I do this by intentionally reading the comments
Erica trueee XD. i've also found twitter (or at leaast the parts i frequent/the way i consume it (way too much)) to be quite unhealthy. but i mean that's most social networks
Jordan Rodriques
Hey, sorry I didn't get back to you until now, but I hadn't checked this comment in a while. First of all, I sincerely hope that you're doing okay and that your path towards happiness and inner peace is going well. From what you've written here, it sounds like you've got a lot of really great advice that I know a lot of people in this world could really use and really need to hear so I really hope that you'll be in a good enough place to share them with the world. :)
Secondly, this is fantastic advice and I'll definitely work to take them to heart. I'm lucky in that most of my self-harming, especially my digital self-harm, are now in the past. I still struggle with feel hopeless and worthless, but my worst self-harming behaviours are definitely behind me at this point and, baring a major upset and a complete and utter relapse, I don't see them returning ever again. My self-harming behaviours were also somewhat different than what was normally described, but I did them for the same reasons. It was to escape my own misery and frustration while also an attempt to self-sabotage any happiness I could have, and I'm SO happy to be rid of them.
Still, I really appreciate your help and your advice and I'll try to use them to further my own growth and evolution away from the emotions I still carry with you and thank you very much for that. I hope that they're working well for you and that you're finding yourself in a better place every day. Good luck in your process and I hope that you'll soon be in a much better place! Again, thanks so much! :D
I have always said that what separates a depressed boy from an incel is the environment where he develops. To this day. I still fit in the "incel" category, but what has kept me mentally "sane" is staying away from those types of toxic and harmful environments, focusing my life on seeking my own happiness and feeling comfortable with myself, while time seeking therapy when I needed it most. Life is extremely difficult when you feel like it's you against everything else, but not all truths hurt and you're never really alone. we must remain hopeful.
Great video, immediate subscription!
Now I'm thinking about, if weren't for the female figures in my family i would definitely be into incel forums being extremely misogynistic
Only looks and height matter. You will never experience love, so cope or rope.
@@insirable3127 nice try ya death cultist
Hey man, hope you're doing well! Good on you for finding your own happiness :) it's hard but I hope it's been worth it in the last year
@@NONE27-DC All that for the exact same material circumstances as an incel
The way you spoke about the similarities between TTTT and Incels also made me think that there's a fucked up similarity with the Pro-Ana community
I had to look up what pro ana is and oh my god.....
@@kristen8052 yeah it's not fun, I don't recommend
Cory Richards it instantly made me think of meanspo! When I first started off my ED I spent a lot of time on ED tumblr and actively asked people for meanspo to trigger myself and make it worse. The internet is such a shitty place tbh
@@billiee8035 What language are you speaking? Making me google every other word.
jim bob Encyclopædia Dramatica jargon. The language of the original cringe culture that first came out of LiveJournal back in the Dark Ages.
Steps to being masculine:
1. Identify as a man.
2. Live your life the way you want.
4. Take care of yourself.
5. Clean your room
6. Don't let the existential dread set in too deep.
7. Develop a sense of personal responsibility.
8. Be swift as a coursing river
Your make up in this video is absolutely sublime
I was just thinking that. Looking in my cellphone camera like "man, I have to up my game..."
I know right?! The lipstick is especially on-point, and I love how the lighting colour changes change the way the makeup looks. Natalie stepped it UP.
In each lighting change i was like OH. SHE REALLY BE LOOKING LIKE THAT. GOD IM GAY
Yeah, I'm sitting here like "I'm way too gay for this..."
Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way
TW:
I was there when Elliot Rodger killed those people. I was 19. A month before that, I’d been raped. After the shooting, I watched Elliot’s videos and realized there are men out there who will rape you, and if they can’t rape you, they’ll kill you. It really fucked me up. It’s been almost 10 years now and I’m still dealing with symptoms of CPTSD. For a while, I had suicidal thoughts, but a dear friend told me that I’m valuable. To anyone reading this, just know you are valuable for simply existing ❤
Holy shit. I sincerely hope you are better now, at least a little.
I feel sad and sorry for you, hope you are in a better place.
Hope things are better for you now, take of yourself, and enjoy life as much as you can
I'm really sorry that happened to you. As a male S.A survivor myself (albeit 20 odd years ago) I want you to know you're not alone, and there are good people on your side 🫂
So sorry you went through this… can’t imagine how strong you’ve had to be. So glad you’re still here with us ❤
i feel like you held my hand through a journey into the horrific underbelly of the internet while providing insightful, funny, and objective-as-humanly-possible information and anecdotes. You're a dream, I'm so happy I stumbled on your channel
Contrapoints is a genius, i feel the same way, pretty happy i got into this chill rabbit hole
Make sure you check out her other stuff she's very good at representing people in a human way even when she disagrees with them.
I have never had anything to do with incels and viewed this video just to see what it was all about, and I ended up taking something from it. "catastrophizing," "digital self-harm," and "forming mental habits" -- all things I have a tendency to do, and now I have words for them so I can be more aware of when I'm doing them. wow
@idoj654123 Why?
@idoj654123 what? why?
Name Surname I came to this video with the same curiosity/inexperience. Good godly lord, this is a thing?? People do this...? People are like this?? This is so much to BE, it's like trying to find the starting point in a wad of shower drain hair. So many self-enforcing backward notions. Part of me wants to help, but the rest of me is like, *This is why therapy exists.*
@@HexIsme You'd be surprised at how many things seem obvious to you that are completely mind blowing to others. I remember the first time I read about communities that were so conservative and controlling of their women's sexuality, that a woman made it to her 20's before learning that she could have orgasms, too.
Jaded and Empty I feel the same. It’s a toxic, toxic thing to wrap your head around, it really is dangerous
Are you a siren trying to get us into the sea to devour us?
Imagine Nat as Scylla
it's working
Personally I was pretty turned on by the rain
Literally Propaganda i don't know if you're memeing but it was legit getting me there
Just look at that ocean though
Love learning from your videos. Never heard of "catastrophizing" before. Definitely a problem I have. When I finally see a therapist, will be good to bring this up
I was watching too many redpill/blackpill videos, and it was starting to get me down. Thanks for reminding me that this stuff is just a big delusion brought on by anxiety, low self-esteem, and deep insecurities.
Flooby Badoop it’s a rabbit hole that can sometimes be hard to get out of. Is It easy to find a mate? For some, yeah. That’s just a fact, some men and women are more attractive than most others. But that doesn’t mean that finding a mate is impossible. When you find that person who’ll show you that this red pill/black pill bullshit is just that, bullshit, by doing absolutely nothing but love you for being you, you’ll see. I thought no one would ever love me after 28 years of sheer bitter loneliness. But understand that you have to be in a certain frame of mind before you’ll be able to find someone. You have to be okay with yourself before you can expect others to be okay with you too. People can sense self loathing and pure bitter hatred a mile away.
Both of you missed your opportunity of honesty. The red and black pill is the solution to break out the illusion that we call life. It's not too late to consider it
@@joker-pilled5892 You're a glitch in the Matrix, huh
I think Redpill is really usefull to some extent.
Just like some aspect of the mgtow philosophy.
But the more you'll do research about them, the more you'll see their dark side.
@@joker-pilled5892 You.. you're serious?
what's hilarious is that Natalie may have left the academia but it never left her. this is The video that i share with all my fellow students and professors and I need this in a form of a peer-reviewed article so i can use it in At Least all my term papers.. anyway. mad respect.
@Nyarlathotep Are you talking about your comment?
Academia itself is harsh but its methodology is the only thing we know to progress and reduce human sufferings.
@Nyarlathotep Is this all "Crawling Chaos" amounts to these days?
Academia never leaves one. It changes one perspective on life forever.
One thing I don't miss about philosophy was all the damn heavyweight writing involved. Good riddance term papers if you ask me. Shit. Brings back nightmares.
"ultra-masculine baker i mean bread scientist" i'm dying. and that little chuckle at the end.
I hope he never decides to wash a dish or heaven forbid, actually push the damn vacuum around, or he'll have to grow his beard down to the floor. Let's see a woman do that!
Jesus that opening is a great way to find out how innocent you are. That took "imagine how a woman feels" in a completely different direction from what I expected, even knowing the topic is incels.
It also serves to show just how misogynistic they are and how they view women as something to collect the resource of s*x from. A small bit of the opening and a small bit of the end was about romance.... everything else is just s*x. That's how they think about women.
God imagine being so caught up in your own rhetoric that you have to give masculine reasons for BAKING BREAD.
being a baker is the most manly thing you can do
baking bread is alpha af
He seems to not remember the long history of male bakers...
If any of you sissies actually had a group of normal Chad male friends, you'd know something like baking some f*cking cookies is going to get you made fun of...in front of the bros you counteract it by say something like "I'm not gay or nothing but I'm baking cookies"
Nothing to do with wanting to force masculinity into anything...it's literally so we avoid a little stupid joke like "Oh you're baking bread!! What are you Martha Stewart!!!"
Do we think baking cookies is gay??...No is our friend gay for baking cookies???...Yes
Some of the most masculine men I know (“alpha males” if you will) are incredible bakers/chefs. And frankly? That makes them all the more attractive because it increases the possibility that I get surprise brownies. Hurrah!
(P.S. - for those of you who say OHHH bUt ItS nOt mAnLy aNd My BrOs WiLl MaKe FuN oF mEeEeE....get new friends.)
Did I defy the entire Incel theory by being a normal dude and marrying a woman who has more money than me? I mean, if we divorce, she'll have to pay me alimony. Does that mean I won? Where's my prize?
btw, I hope we don't get divorced, I love my wife.
Everyone defies Incel theory, because Incel theory is inherently wrong. Almost everyone I know wouldn't fit this world view.
I know one guy who actually _does_ have a cuckold fetish. How does that work for them? A man who loves being a third wheel, and has had many happy relationships.
iunno, a lil taller than me? About average?
You picked a bad place to troll.
Sausage Mahoney but shallow people do make up the population
...if you’re talking about the population of red pill mgtow and incels 😱
I actually have a lot of the features these incels claim makes them unfuckable (short, small wrists, some "feminine" facial features) and have never had a problem attracting women. It's almost as if...not being perfect physically doesn't mean you're ugly, and physical appearance isn't the only determining factor in whether or not women find you attractive.
Oh, and before someone decides it's because of my money...it's not. I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. I am simply, confident, have a good sense of humor and genuinely care about the women I choose to get involved with. That's right - me, a flawed, unfuckable, short, narrow-wristed "beta" with the facial structure of a masculine woman somehow actually attracts enough attention from women that I get to choose who to get involved with and who not to. Crazy, right?
Hearing Abigail reading out the quotes of depressed/abusive transwomen on 4chan boards is... depressing, in hindsight. Glad her life didn't ultimately mirror theirs. (Power of acting!)
I also winced in sympathy when she read the TTTT posts about not being able to pass. So glad she's living her truth.
I was just doing a rewatch and realized it was Abigail and damn like I know she's an actress but I wonder if she ever let those thoughts get to her and I hope so badly no....
Okay, I did not think I was going to stay and watch the whole 35 minutes but the way you began without the whole "your mere existence as a man is a red flag" vibe you get from most content creators (even the ones who claim they want to help you address your problems) is what made me stay. Your video didn't make me feel belittled, mocked, coddled, intimidated or anything, really; you just put the truth out there, as it is. I really like how you showed the steps on the downward spiral. I guess I'm at step 5 and while I don't think I'll go beyond it, some content creators who lack your objectivity were definitely helping me down towards step 6. Thankfully, this video helped me realize I do have friends but the way I'm going, isolating myself and all, I feel they won't stick around for much longer. I have to stop that and possibly change my thoughts about a lot of stuff. I guess I have a lot of work to do so thanks for this. Maybe I'll come back to this when I'm in a better space and hopefully say something different.
It's good that Contrapoints made you stop at Step 5, but you need to climb back over the previous steps.
Don't blame content creators for your downward spiral. The content you watch is your choice (or the choice of an algorithm you let make the content choices for you), and the way you understand and interpret the content you watch doesn't depend on the presenter alone but also on your biases and cognitive limitations. When people descend into cult-like communities like incels, they take on ideas that serve as thought-blockers. Contrapoints is effective because she purposefully steers around those thought-blockers. But other people who fail to do that while criticising the cult aren't the reason for your demise, the cult - which issues the thought-blockers and the toxic and irrational ideas those blockers are meant to conserve - is.
Say, you vision things into content like a "your mere existence as a man is a red flag vibe". Identifying that vibe is something you must have been pre-conditioned to by certain content you watched previously. I'm a man who has seen several videos analysing and criticising the incel movement from several different content creators, and I never got such a vibe from anyone, it strikes me as bizarre. This certainly looks like one of those thought-blockers; this one apparently built on cultivating & enhancing a sense of male fragility.
I Dr K/healthy gamer is a good resource for incels, it's genuine advice but without the nihilism
@@gustavsjokvist2668 He is better than a lot of options and has some good advice, but I still get a weird vibe from him. I'm waiting for the inevitable scandal that comes when I get that vibe.
hope you're doing well rn mate
Hey man, proud of you for realizing where you are on the ladder! Here's to getting back down to step zero, if not today then one day in the future 🍻
Imagine having a Masculinity so fragile you must justify your love of baking, a process that has been utilized by all of humanity for thousands of years. I'd argue that baking is pretty gender neutral
Cooking is gender-neutral because:
1. Cooking is not a living thing with genders
2. All humans cook and all humans need to eat
Yeah like MFs been mocking the dude like saying that it's just for women well it's not that masculine but it's just what I gotta do. Btw I got hungry now, bon appetite y'all
😋🥪🍳
If anything, baking should get you laid. It's awesome
I'd argue more bakers are men.
Also what does it matter
i know when i'm looking for a man i always go for the ones who *never heard a song in there entire life*
same
same
It's funny to teach those Martians how to human, I agree
As long as he beats you? Right.
You Dont Matter what
35 mins ago: RUclips recomendations, do i really wanna watch a video about incels? wont that be a bit too depressing for a hungover sunday?
Now: Holy shit my mind is blown, that was amazing and i think i am in love
Charlie Davey how is this so specific but directly related to my situation
I felt exactly the same, and I'm pretty sure I'm in love as well.
You are.. just amazing. Moreover this was the most interesting and thoughtful, and darkly funny, examination of this psychological happening I've found. Thank you for what you do.
-a Therapist
Therapy is worthless shame on those who take money from the less fortunate
Honestly I've been avoiding this video from my recommendation because I thought it would be typical "incels are dumb lol" type of video, I'm honestly pleasantly surprised it's actually have a lot of good feed backs for them at are self loathing in general, even for that of a non incels
swivel keyring I used to be an incel, until I started listening to the women in my life better, (and also this video, lolwut) and realize I had issues with myself that I needed to get unpack.
Rare do the videos on this channel take the same route of how to speak on a topic that so many typical youtube channels do. In most cases, unlike a lot of youtube clickbait on a topic regarding a group, mockery is not the goal. Understanding is the goal. How do people get to this state? What are their thought processes? How can you find something in your own life that will allow you to, if not sympathize, at least understand where they're coming from? What is the sort of language they use amongst themselves, so you can recognize the conversation? As fun and artistic as the production values are, the biggest draw of the videos on this channel are the core content themselves.
Ehh sure mr."non-incel" lol
@@MrNinjaone1 last time I check femoids cannot be incels amirite
@@swivelkeyring3512
Femoids ?
Wtf are you trying to say
This video taught me two things.
1. Wtf is humanity.
2. I wanna be you when I grow up.
Who doesn't want to be Contra when they grow up?! She's a social genius, with the majesty of the ocean itself.
@@lilpetz500 Isn't that a dude?
@@lilpetz500 Spot on description.
@@anonrandom7765 Uhm, no. ContraPoints is a woman aka Natalie Wynn.
Anon Random You just proved my argument that she is a woman by mentioning that her wikipedia article says that she is a trans woman.
And then you become disrespectful and discriminating by saying that she is a man. What's the purpose of doing this? Why are you being transphobic? Can't you just let other people be themselves? They are not hurting you in any way. Why are there people like you?
Incels remaind me a LOT to toxic pro ana forums. Like "Roast me" topic are so popular. You post pictures so that everyone feeds the voices in your head that already hate the way you look. You need to feel fat, to see people who are skinnier than you to feel like a failure and keep feeding your obsession with your body, and your hate for yourself.
Many are skinnier than everyone they see IRL, so they go to the internet so that they CAN compare, and feel like they are failing.
I still deal with a LOT of BD because of my ED, and reading incels it almost mirrors my own feelings sometimes, is so so weird
Thank you for sharing this. The similarity is definitely there.
Maria Apaolaza I'm so sorry dear... I have some unresolved EDs & other issues & I agree. I'm very lucky to be slightly too old to have experienced the internet until I was in therapy or I'm pretty sure I'd have died from the despair.
Strength & love to you my earth sibling.💕💕
+
God I remember tumblr pro-Ana spaces being SUCH a contributing factor to my ED. The idea of “no one could ever love you and you’ll be alone forever, so you might as well starve yourself to death” mirrors so perfectly with the LDAR thing. Despite this, I still don’t have much sympathy for incels. Just the fact that there are so many groups that suffer in the same way without turning to violent hatred of an invented enemy is enough for me to write them off as another terrifying symptom of toxic masculinity :/
This gave me compassion for people who hate. Thanks. And you're beautiful, and I am not a nice enough person to say that unless it's true. Thanks for overcoming your self-loathing enough to talk about it.
Lel, my dad was made fun of by some dumb ladies in his youth because he knew how to make jam out of fruits like his mom taught him. He’s also been bald since his late 20s because genetics. And guess what? He didn’t let that get him down and eventually found a woman who isn’t superficial. Has been married happily for about 20 years now and they’ve been living together long before that. Obviously got laid too, living proof right here. Now we’re all living in a beautiful house with a garden and in that garden, we have a peach tree that’s so full every year that we all get into the kitchen and make peach jam out of the peaches we can’t eat and have a laugh at his old stories.
Sounds like you're living in paradise~
Whoa. That’s a hell of a chad life.
why did reading this make me so happy. enjoy your peach jam, fam.
That’s so cute
One day i want a life like that, all the best to you! :)
I was an incel a few years back, before I started university I believed i was inherently understandable and that I could never have happiness.
Then in uni i first installed tinder and eventually I started talking to a girl, i wasnt that attracted to her but she seemed nice enough and we went on a date that ended in me loosing my verginity. One of the darkest points in my life came after, i had finally done it, i was loved and appreciated and... still lonely, still depressed, still feeling undesirable.
The saddest thing about incels is that they have constructed there world view around a straw man that can only serve to distract them from their actual problems.
Im seeking help, doing cbt to give me confidence and slowly trying to piece together a life i want to live. I hope they can do the same.
Your problem was being a loser with low self esteem, not being an incel. A guy can have many problems, you just focused on the wrong one as the cause of your underlying issues.
@@Nuclearcx Isn't that what most incels do though?
Problem is guys wanting to date above there station
@@emmaspaz6435 exact opposite actually, just look into the OkCupid statistics for example, vast majority of women considers over 70% of men to be below average looking.
Like I've been single to years and turned down by a few not so great dudes it's like no wonder your not getting laid a 10 is not going to fuck a two but you could have a five idiot
I laughed when that bearded guy said "I'm ultra-masculine, as you can see." But I laughed harder at Natalie's "bread scientist" line.
We need more women talking about this. Aknowledging the fact that 'mom talk' while tempting, does not help is very important.
I mean this video is 5 years old, the blackpill becoming more and more mainstream and no other woman youtuber is talking about this in a constructive manner.
Good job, following rn
Also until this day i had no idea that this kind of mentality also shows up in the lgbtq community. the effect this could have on trans kids that may already feel lonely is so scary
@@user-mv6yv9ec1b My Bad i'm not a long time follower and just assumed Natalie identifies as a woman.
The point still being we need more non cis-male peolple trying to give advice to young guys in a non judgimental and empathetic way.
Help them understand the point of view of other genders and groups so that they can set themselves free of self imposed stigma and deprecation
@@user-mv6yv9ec1b trans women are women, cope and seethe
@@user-mv6yv9ec1b ok by this logic, is a disabled man who will *never* get conscripted, not a real man?
@@user-mv6yv9ec1b another thought, a male soldier in combat who gets sent home for being near an IED blowing up, has he just transitioned to being a woman?
As an ex red piller I really appreciated this video. Throw the negativity behind you. Not all women are like that. The reality for these guys is they got hurt and couldn’t move on from it in a healthy way. I speak from experience.
proud of you, stay away from toxicity
@@lilysun1217 will do
No you are not. Stop false flagging.
@@percival5568 I’m not what? Who tf are you to tell me what my experience is? Clown.
@@bgbiv7 You are not an ex-redpiller. You are a government agent practicing damage control. Things are getting out of hand for you, the truth is getting out and you shit your pants? tough luck.
Look I wanted to thank You from the bottom of My heart because Your video really helped Me a lot. I lost My family of 16.5 years due to the ex cheating and I was instantly destroyed. I really felt like that I was a hideous monster that was unlovable and I'd never find love again. I actually started believing these people that certain people are just doomed to live life alone because they are just not good enough. The thing is good looking people do have it easier by far but if You fall into this trap YOU WILL NEVER FIND LOVE because You can't find love unless You learn to either not give a shit or learn to love Yourself. We all have redeeming qualities that makes us attractive to the other sex so it's best to just concentrate on bettering Yourself instead of dwelling on Your negatives. So while I'm unattached I'll hit the gym and try for that six pack I've always wanted and start focusing on My positives instead of My negatives.
So glad you learned to love yourself, inceldom is an easy trap to fall into, and I’m glad you were able to find ways to love yourself despite your hardships. Even though I’m a random stranger, I wish you the best of luck in your future.
You got the right attitude my dude! Keep it up and don’t give up hope. I totally feel ya. I was cheated on by my ex fiancé and then my last serious relationship ended due to a lack of emotional and sexual compatibility.
I’ve been single for two years now and it’s very easy to fall into that hole of despair, isolation, and self loathing. But you gotta pick yourself back up and make yourself into the person you want to be. Then you can find the kind of love you want to have
Thank you for this comment.
Good luck James ☺️
Congratulations!
I'm sorry about your shitty ex cheating. You deserve much better and I hope you find it.
When the RUclips algorithm actually works and you find something great.
I know right!? I kept seeing this in my recommended and finally clicked on it. This is a great video! Thanks RUclips for recommending someone awesome!
blessed channel of degeneracy, dark aunt of youtube, contrapoints
Seriously. This channel is amazing and now I'm going to binge everyyyythhhing.
@@gartgartsman478 snap.
Y'all should watch every video of hers. She's amazing!!!
This is the best f*in video on the topic I have ever watched
AND you're a gorgeous goddess among us mere mortals