What tier is Little Mac REALLY in?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- After playing Little Mac for just about a year, I've been thinking about how he fits in Ultimate's meta. Is he actually as bad as everyone says?
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PEANUT OUT HERE GIVING HOPE FOR US LITTLE MAC MAINS LETS GOOOOOOOO
Yeeeeeee
I've argued many a time about how slept on Little Mac is in the Smash scene. Thank you so much for laying out everything I've been trying to say since the game came out. From one Mac main to another, you've definitely earned my sub, thanks for the content and for helping to bring to light and develop the Mac meta.
His arguments were shit. Little Mac is trash.
@@axelnilsson2031 I'm pretty sure it's just cuz you, yourself, are trash lol. But sorry, I'll mind my own business.
Hey, it's nice to see people with different point of view. I personally think little mac is bottom 1 and it's mainly for two reasons ; platform camping and matchup chart. Both are tied but essentially, every single character in the game has the ability to invalidate mac's fantastic ground game by just running away on platform and mac's only options are all extremely predictable and punishable. If you add this to the awful disadvantage of little mac, it really makes mac super easy to beat. And even then you have to find character that get beaten by mac to say he is bottom tier. And exept for ganon, I don't see any character that can struggle with mac playing the matchup right. Even then, ganon can at least try to outplay his opponent, while in a lot of situation, mac has no option to beat his opponent his he playes wisely. It really makes me sad because mac is one of my favourite character and I played him a lot in 4 but the more I think about it, the wors little mac gets.
And you also have to realise that while little mac is certainly slightly underestimated, it is probably the case of every other low to bottom tier. Every character you probably think is wors than mac probably has a main claiming their character are underestimated.
@@artimist0315 I think little mac should be given better recovery options but lower the damage since his gimmick is that he's a heavy character but his mobility is that of a light character. But overall if used right he's a cool character that just destroys people at a low percentage.
Here's the problem tho and correct me if I'm wrong- lil Mac is great and as you said, if someone tries to approach little Mac it's basically a free punish with his framedata and speed. However the reason he is considered bad is because you don't NEED to approach him. Little Mac is scary but just camping him out is a viable strategy to win and because of his Mediocre air game his approach options are much more limited. And on certain stages like Kalos and battlefield platform camping is insane against him.
This is definitely something I should’ve covered more in the video. It’s easier in some matchups than others, but Mac still has tools to deal with camping. Stuff like upsmash and jolt haymaker can hit from below plats, and it’s super easy to get followups from full hop bair and fair. One thing that has worked for me is basically using the plats before my enemy does. I move around on platforms a LOT in neutral, and with practice moving around them efficiently it makes my opponent have a harder time getting comfortable on the platforms themselves.
I’ll probably make a bit more in depth video on this type of stuff in the future, so I’ll try and lay it out a bit more then.
Kalos is definitely a bad one because of the plat positions, but the fact Mac can get on the platforms on BF in one full hop aerial follow ups are really easy and provide him pretty good movment--I honestly prefer it over FD in most MUs
@@tjknight kalos is the most dog shit stage for mac as a whole cuz he's more prone to camping on that stage more than any other stage
Absolutely, except recently I've realized you can do it back. Sure it's more risky for Mac to counter it then it is for them but you can camp too. Quite effectively. SL to frame 1 armor the attack to knock you off, super armor the attack to knock you off and possibly land both hits of Dsmash, shield the landing aerial and Up B out, you might even get them first with a well timed Dtilt we're so fast.
Well timed? You mean buffered
Hey Joyconbro! I completely agree Mac is very underrated but he has so many good tools and so many things to beat out character like you said in this video I mean he even had a ledge trump tool with his side b which is just absolutely crazy so much I can talk about and i can go on for hours, me being a Mac main Ive always known he shouldn't be low tier, great video bro!!
What are you TALKING ABOUT he’s so obviously bottom tier.
This is a growing problem with how people view tier lists. Tier lists show a character’s potential/options, not usability. Little Mac is low on tier lists because he has very low potential/depth compared to other characters (since literally half of his kit is unusable), but little Mac can do good because he is so powerful on the ground and can exploit human flaws. Also he’s annoying af to fight so people start to play his game of aggression and they lose for it. He’s low tier because literally every character can easily platform camp him, but since most people aren’t playing entirely to win/ want to actually play the game, he seems a lot better when you play him casually than he actually is.
Bad not unusable
Nair is a combo breaker, fastest out of tumble option, and boosts recovery
Dair jab locks for good plat set ups and can help you follow up into grounded moves when hopping over and punishing the endlag of projectile usage
Fair and Bair can gimp, knock you off a platform at stupid low percents, and send into tech chases
Up air combos into the imagination on landing, hard to do tbh but really really easy when you get platforms involved which Mac has the roughest time against but people fail to realize he has an above average air speed and combined with his fast tilts just wavelanding onto a platform makes camping strats stupid simple to negate
Mac's biggest weakness is projectile camping, which so many characters in this game have.
Yea i main falcon but also love playing as little mac hes a fun character too play
He really is
As someone on an Esports team, I learned that Little Mac is FF tier.
*Tracksuit* Little Mac however is SSS tier.
I know this video was made like 9 months ago but Peaunt has been going to town recently with Little mac, He's placing really high in tournaments and is close to actually winning one.
As a mac main i approve of this message
Also buff down tilt back to where it was
I believe his needs to be buffed in everything!
He needs his confirms to actually be confirms. Dtilt to KO works like 85 percent of the time. Granted online has buffer and fucks up inputs. But still, confirm means they can't dodge out of it.
@@LuvMehSi I'd say the logical route to buff D-tilt would be less endlag, but to compensate, slightly more outward angle (and I mean slight). This would mean it would never connect with KO Punch, because that would be hella broken. But many other combo material, such as low-% F-tilt and Side special, would always connect (forgiving certain DI scenarios).
We have to consider the best part of his kit.
**THE LITTLE MAC SPIKE**
Hey... hey you... try this out of platform jab lock...
Dtilt -> SH nair -> let go of movement stick and hit 5 more nairs as you and your opponent travel offstage together -> fair -> double jump Jolt
Seeing as how you're fighting an uphill battle with folks that have these preconceived notions on Mac I would've went more into his real recovery options, tho the aerial boost is a big one and I understand not wanting to reveal every mix up he has. But for folks that think there projectile that deals maybe 6% is gonna kill him? SL armor is 9.6 and can be done off stage, then we airdodge to ledge free. Bait counter? If you know the MU that works but half the time the fact it stalls in the air throws folks off and saves my ass (more useful at blastzone though)
Yup yup. It's hilarious watching people trying to gimp. Honestly only times I've been gimped online is when the input delay is too wide. But he has a solid recovery arsenal.
@Gopu G Yea. Doc has an ass recovery. I also main ganon and hate how his ariels hit like a truck, while his slow ass drop speed make him super vulnerable to be juggled or gimped at the same time. Big dawg needs some buffs lol.
I loved mac in 4 and didnt touch him in ultimate for the ver early stage but now he is my top pick i tell my friends that he isnt the worse person his recovery is still good and aeriels are better i love his playstyle and how he is designed i went to a tourney once and i am a pacmain. I selected mac and my buddys freaked out and i shit on my oppenent and the guy was impressed by my mac it wad cool. I think he is very under estimated by alot of people. Sol put work in for sm4sh and sadly doesnt play to much anymore otherwise he would push the limits of mac hard. Mac to me is hard to master people dont see it
Hey, Joycon bro. You have gained another sub from a Mac main
I have a very hard time with platforms when using mac, like i'm horrible when it comes to top BF platform. I did see your nair vid before this one and was seeing some potential tho.
Mac is good.
-Signed, fellow little mac player
That first tier list with an area set aside for Sans
Little Mac probably has 10+ 0-death combos with k.o punch or w/out. I think this because his aerials gimp so much.
So, an essay that mac has terrible skill cap but sleeper skillceiling
Hot damn
This is why little Mac is my secondary main
I know I'm late on this video, but to me Little Mac is better than 2 characters at high level, but definitely mid-tier at least at mid level. The fear factor of losing to a Mac alone makes this true from my experience.
Mac is better than Ganon and Doctor Mario IMO. His movement speed is the main factor here, because all three characters have similar kill power, and are similarly gimpable. Good video!
As a little Mac main myself, I agree
I really feel like Little Mac could be a mid tier character like you said but there is just one problem and that’s his recovery. If someone throws you off stage and hits you in the air or just hits you really far off from the stage it’s over for him.
Did you not see his whole section on how many different options little mac has? Ik this is obvious like I also play little mac, but if you are able to master each recovery option without being read, this usually isn't a problem.
Little mac is so fast and lolrandom that at low level, his downsides aren't easy to exploit and even at high level, with consistency, his speed isn't letting him het grabbed very often unless you hard read and bait.
Slightly reduce the lag on his aerials and I'll consider him top tier.
Or give them more frame advantage. I think Mac having a greater ability to true combo out of aerials would be sick af
T-t-top tier?!
No. What he needs to be that good is a half decent horizontal distance with up b. Doesn’t even need that much more either.
Me who destroys people with little Mac online.
my name is Mac, so therefore Mac is SS tier
I can not use Mac fight shulk 😭, help me
Quick tips against shulk from my head are:
1) if you’re solid at parrying, do it as much as you can. It’s super helpful here like it is in the Ike matchup.
2) his recovery can be countered at ledge, and it can be 2-framed pretty easily by down smash if he does it late.
3) when shulk is in smash art, it cuts the damage of his moves down a lot. Because of this, you can actually use the heavy armor from straight lunge to armor every single move in his kit. Watch out for grabs though, cause those will still kill.
Hope this helps!
joyconbro thanks a lot 🤩
You might agree with me on this: Little Mac on the right hands is terrifying.
Absolutely! I feel like this can be said do a degree with every character in the game, but Little Mac is so explosive that he can melt stocks in the blink of an eye with the right people playing him.
@@joyconbro I know right? I mean his ground game is so good! I mean the advantage that Little Mac haves ln the ground is his speed, quickness & his high damage. His aerials can be used to fool people & do follow ups with jablock which is stupidly funny but good! The reason why people don't use him is bexause of his aerials which is dumb, I mean he aerials are also good for something not to mention his footstool setup, that is terrifying. His super armor makes him even funnier but is also good since you can use the Smash attacks to build up the KO Punch but it's also safe on any single attack but grab & his own KO Punch. In Smash 4 when Little Mac charges any Smash attack completely his resists ANYTHING even the KO Punch (I was in practice mode & I tested his super armor & he did resist it). IDK if in Ultimate he also resists his own KO Punch but I have to figure it out! But Little Mac is super good!
@@siervodedios3139 I have seen not many people talking about this, but I feel that Little Mac got a *great* improvement in Ultimate
Anyone is terrifying in the right hands
I totally agree with you. Little mac is definitely a mid tier. I used him and I know what you are talking about. You can literally kill with just down tilt and KO punch. It's so much fun to make Elite smash players confused when you absolutely destroy them with this character. Btw that combo isn't always true and still works most of the time. And it's funny when people think they are safe when they jump over you at the ledge, but they never expect the up-b. LOL I love this character and he isn't even my main.
Little mac in smash is exactly like in his game, you have to practice hard to get good, fast, can react to almost anything, and people think he's a weak link but can dominate the competition if you try hard enough, we are at a point were people think he is the worst, but we will show them that we are the next champ.
I think I turned into doc louis for a second lmao
Tbh I would put him at a tier to s tier but the recovery kinda makes him a a tier
Little mac will get his comeback after all charakters came out and they have to rework old charakters
He's op untill you backthrow him offstage
Little mac mide tier? Main mac? New sub
But in the end, he still has some of the worst priority and hit boxes, a predictable recovery that results in instant death if guarded, a KO punch that is lost after a gust of wind and can be cancelled by the weakest of moves. Bottom tier
good shit man
HIT EM BABY
Yeah, I'd say mid tier but no higher. Tier lists are built upon consistency, and Little Mac is very consistent on the ground.
So, no Peanut?
I approve of this video
Lil mac air down hit can actually SPIKE at high percentages tho
Air u mean dair im guessing. It can spike at any percent but it's just so weak at lower percents.
It send people down. I guess that is a spike?
So I am a ganondorf main and my friend is a little mac main. The fact that ganondorf is considered worse than mac makes me sad.
I love mzyi
Who?
im a little mac main too
i agree
Top tier
not everyone can be a great little mac
but a great little mac will win almost every time
Yeah. Just watch lil mac delete stock at like 70%. Which can be reached by just 2 successful tech chase.
I mean.. he literally cannot be bottom 1 and it's not because of Ganon.
K.Rool is basically a sandbag.
Wow all I do is kick people's ass online with mac all the way up to
8600000 GSP and now theres more people talking about little Mac.
Yeah, and I don't think dedede or ganon should be as low as they are
Where does that leave low tier? I think ganon deserves in mid tier as well
Honestly if little mac got buffed he would definitely be a high teir character honestly if they fixed a few things
I honestly don't think little Mac needs a buffed, he already good as it is. If they nerf him okay that a different story, but if they buffed his recovery then that just ruined his whole point of gameplay. I think giving a better recovery would not be healthy for Little Mac community. There be a lot of cheap players playing him not because of how fun to play him, but because he high tier and he now easy to use.
Honestly even if it’s just the vertical recovery that would be nice
Little mac can be a low mid tier character. Ha ha sword characters go slash.
I don't think mac is the worst chatacter anymore, but i think you are just overrating lil mac, stages like town & city, kalos and battlefield are just horrible for little mac because as we all know camping is horrible for him, you can't be a consistent character if 3 of the legal stages makes most matchups unwinable
Mac is upper mid tier and thats a LOW estimate. Dude literally has yhe best grounded gamr in the whole roster. If he doesn't get off stage, top tier *easily*.
Even his off stage game is not AS bad as it appears (its still se of the worst but with resource management he isn't incineroar tier in recovery)
If you think Little Mac is low tier in this game you have not played super smash bros 4
I'd argue if mac could recover he'd be a high mid tier
but he can lol
his recovery isn't even a main issue, how was cloud top tier in smash 4 if he had a more linear recovery than mac in both games and had to spend his one time use meter to make it better, which lost him kill power in the process
@@breck8668 recovery isnt his main issue, the devs neglect is
@@iyaguex LOL
Devs don’t want to touch Mac because buffing his flaws makes him top tier/frustrating and buffing his strengths makes him more annoying to fight while not really solving anything
tldr no
Hm
Bruh.
I would say he is in low tier
I would say you are mistaken
@@potato5150 better than bottom tier lmao
Still bottom tier. You're still godlike tho
You're not very knowledgeable about this game. Your mostly just saying "just play well with mac".
Like you're not making many clear arguments if any. It's just a disorganized rant where you're talking about one tidbit thing for one to three sentences then another one and on it goes. Nothing you've said makes him sound mid tier and so much of what you say can be said about any character with very slight adjustments. There are no comprehensive arguments with any weight to them. You just rant about his strengths "mac can do x and mac can do y".
You also say his main issue is "lack of consistency" which is bullshit. It's his disadvantage, recovery and airgame. What you are actually saying is you have to work a lot harder with Mac and be a lot better to get anything done. Tell tale sign of a trash character which is a waste of time to play unless you just really enjoy it.
At some point near the end you realize one of your arguments is trash because it applies to all characters. Your solution to this is to say that Mac has potential which can ALSO be said about every character.
Your tone of voice and constant laughing is also very cringey to listen to. This was not very convincing.
Id have felt about being so negative but when the premise is so absurd and you haven't prepared the video properly by.. say writing your arguments down and checking if they work? If you had just had some notes to help you structure it then it would've been less of a problem.
I guess it isn't really a problem anyway since your gullible viewerbase seem to be gobbling up this very low quality content anyway. But imo a man should have standards.
Bar buffs little Mac ain't going anywhere. And anyone thinking he's better than bottom 3 is deluded.
Yeah this video is old as shit, I might run it back and remake it cause it’s super unorganized. I know way more about Mac now and can back these points up way better than in this.
I still think he’s underrated but there’s a lot of shit I didn’t cover correctly
@@joyconbro I dunno why I was so nasty with what I wrote, I must've been in a bad mood. I apologize. Only reason I replied is because someone just linked it in the competitive impressions thread on smashboards so I probably also thought it was recent.
Lmfaooo no worries dude
Probably s tier.