Hope you didn't go with an ARM. The lower rates are tempting I know but you can really get stuck 3 or 4 years down the road when the interest rates rise - then you may lose your whole piece of plywood to foreclosure.
Congratulations that’s not easy with the condition of our economy , not only is the price of wood crazy expensive but with the way the government is printing money and giving it away to every special interest group that piece of 1/2 plywood may cost 710.00 dollars .
Im almost 64 and been doing woodworking for over 50 years and 1/2" plywood is very strong so I agree with you I did all of my kitchen cabinet so anyone watching this the man is right try it and then make up your mind but trust me hes right
Fantastic. My husband and I have just about every power/hand tool known to man (or woman). My husband actually knows how to use all of these tools and is a great teacher on how to best utilize them. Also very safety conscious! I love using 1/2" plywood and he has been a 3/4" fan. (Just stronger! GRRR) I appreciate the support and info from your wonderful channel. He may even admit that 1/2" could actually be an alternative to some of his bulky wood projects. When I need to create a shelf, etc., I always go with 1/2" (supports, too). It is much more fun to handle and, having a Sawstop table saw now I feel so much more confident in ripping, etc. ☮
Glad to see this explanation. 1/2" ply has been strong enough for me for nightstands and even a bar cabinet holding heavy bottles. One lesson though is that you need to be a little more careful with pocket hole jigs as 1/2" settings arent quite right and you can pop out the side if you drill all the way to the stop - an issue you dont have with 3/4"
Exactly what I wanted to know as well. I'm going to be building a pantry and want to use pocket holes. I'll be storing large amounts of flour as well so 1/2" just won't cut it. I made bookshelves out of 1/2" when I was a young person and that didn't work out well with heavy leather books.
@@annyeongdreamz24 I've been using basic #8x3/4 pan-head wood screws bought in bulk at a local hardware supplier instead of Kreg pocket screws. I like to use rabbited joints on intersections and drawer boxes so I get more grain contact. And I ALWAYS use glue. Remember, the majority of the joint strength comes from the glue. Watch this test on different types of joints - ruclips.net/video/CE147Ow7RmM/видео.html
Pocket holes suck for just about everything. They are a crutch for people who don't know real carpentry. Carpentry got along for centuries without them and most of the stuff being made with them won't last more than a decade.
In my home woodworking shop I've gone completely to 1/2" ply unless I absolutely have to use 3/4". I mostly use Baltic birch 1/2" ply for shop furniture and small to medium projects. It comes in 5'x5' sheets and costs about the same per square foot as regular birch ply but it's birch all the way through and the surface veneers are the same thickness as the internal layers and there is almost never a void in it. Standard hardwood veneered plywoods have paper thin outer veneers that can be sanded through easily. I built a drill press stand with 4 drawers from 1/2" Baltic birch except for the top of the stand which was 3/4" because the "benchhtop" drill press weighs about 120 pounds. It's plenty strong in well designed pieces.
I’m trying to clear space to be able to make my first French cleat wall and wondered if it would make sense to use 3/4” for the cleats and 1/2” for the containers? I’d be doing it partly to save some money, but like Ethan said, stuff in 1/2” looks more elegant. If built right, 1/2” should be plenty strong for the containers, right?
I love this because when someone asks me why I went with 1/2” instead of 3/4” I can now give them a slew of reasons why. Instead of just saying it’s cheaper and lighter 😁
I have been using 1/2 inch ply for years, I also use 2 x 3's instead of 2 x 4's, and yes I did because of cost, lighter, and in most cases it's easier to work with, thanks for info, you do nice work, I look forward to your videos, I learn something new every time...
I use 1/2" plywood. I learn that Iif I use the proper amount of "support " I maintained the same structural strength. The majority of custom cabinet makers in my area use 1/2 for the carcass. Good video
Thanks for this explanation. I was cringing at the cost of building custom cabinets with 3/4”, so knowing that 1/2” will work will actually save thousands of dollars on my projects.
I just did all new cabinets in my kitchen. I experimented with half-inch, but I just could not get consistent results from the pocket screws. My local dealer carries 5/8 baltic birch and that worked out superbly. I was committed to pocket screws because we downsized a few years ago and we don't have space for a table saw (my son inherited my woodshop machines when we moved)
I now make my living with wood (previously just a keen hobbyist), but I'd be lost without my table saw. I guess you break down sheet goods with a track saw or handheld circular now? I made a pocket hole jig a few years ago, and has been handy on occasion, though at some point I would like to properly explore its usage, especially with dowels, or maybe also utilising my domino machine. I like the build method of IKEA furniture, so maybe one day.
Anne, if you can... dumpster diving at a construction site can yield useful materials. I pulled good materials from a dumpster which was placed at the curbside of a city street, so there was no trespassing issue.
TIP: learn “Sketchup” modeling & design software. It will help you A TON. You can virtually design i.e. desk and know up front if each piece will fit correctly before ever buying/wasting lumber. In addition, it will print out all the dimensions, plans, and many other features. A lot of people are not aware that it’s designed for woodworking (and MANY other areas) not just houses, etc. Also, the great thing is it’s not too difficult to learn and use (unlike other programs that can be very challenging and frustrating). There’s A LOT of resources, community, and learning materials available (large amount for FREE).
It's funny. I remember the day I came to this realization. I was building out a walk in closet with a full storage system. When I went to buy the plywood they only had 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood. Not wanting to delay the project, I bought 1/2". At first I couldn't believe the weight difference of the towers that made up the majority of the system. Installation was simple. The longest shelf span I had was 24" and initially I was freaking out it would bow eventually. 14 years later I look at those shelves 5 times a day and see that they are still perfectly straight. Over the years most of my projects, other than kitchens carcasses or things I need hinges, are 1/2". Let's face it, I'm not parking a car on it, they just hold a few pairs of pants.
I'm an older man and have used 1/2" most of my life (not as a carpenter, just for misc projects, not usually anything decorative) for the reasons stated. But a problem I kept coming up against was screwing or nailing into the edge of 1/2". Too easy to split the wood if you miss the edge with a nail, and screws were out of the question. Which led to a variety of solutions: using a combination of 3/4" pine and 1/2" plywood (screw into the edge of the pine); putting 3/4"x 3/4" trim in the interior edges to screw to; L-brackets; etc.
Thank thank you thank you. I have been saying this for a couple of decades. I have been told I am too cheap because of this, but build to the need has always been my mantra.
You RUclips pros are a godsend for the diy selfer I just built my first kitchen counter and cupboards for my mom and she loves it. Keep up the good work.
Excellent show sir. Thanks for posting it. When I was young just out of High school I made sure to get schooling in all the trades. I went for plumbing, heating A/C, electrical and even welding. I held licenses in all of them. My father was a carpenter/roofer so I already was trained in that by him. I have never needed to call anyone in my 35+ years of homeownership. I take pride in that. I am also a classic car collector. See where the welding helps...hahaha. Anyway, looking forward to your videos.
I usually split the difference and go to 5/8" sheet for cabinetry. Even then, Uday Vadula, there is little to no room for error on pocket screws. I also find that the 1/2" is often warped; whereas the 5/8 is flat as can be. I will reconsider some projects for 1/2, but I need to be convinced by working out the bugs and considering the downsides as well as the upsides.
The number one concern with any plywood is "How many plies?" Both five eights and three quarters are five ply in my experience. Half inch is often three ply which is very unstable and not nearly as strong. The grade also matters as the cruder grades for roof decking and such have lots of voids in the center plies.If you are talking "cabinet grade" five ply stain grade then yes, it will be strong and stable. Half inch CDX not so much. Even Pine BC grade can be questionable. Just something to think about.
That can depend a lot on where you buy it. For just a couple dollars more per sheet, my local lumber yard has 1/2" and 5/8" that are 5 plies, and 3/4" that has 7 plies! That stuff is strong and stable.
I’ve used a lot of 3-ply 1/2” plywood. It works ok, but takes a lot more effort. By comparison, 5-ply birch 1/2” is a luxury. I just had a washing machine flood a cabinet I built 12 years ago. It filled 6 drawers with water. I was surprised that the drawers stayed together, and wet water-tight. Just cheap 1/2” 3-ply. But I recall hating the splinters the rough pine plywood was producing. Oddly, I can afford better, but grew up scavenging whatever I could.
@@hjeffwallace Yeah, for sure. I'm definitely guilty of dumpster diving for lumber scraps all the time. I'm not even talking about fancy birch, though. Just the normal SYP plywood at my local lumber yard has 1 or 2 more plies for the same thickness as the Lowes crap.
Is there a downside to gluing 2 sheets of 1/4" to get a higher ply count than "regular" 1/2"? It should be about the same $, but 2x the plys. Yes, I'm cheap. Yes, "regular" ply is a lot easier to just go get at the big-box toy store.
@@brucebennett7229 Should be fine if you you glue up properly. I'd only worry about delamination if you're using veneered plywood from the box stores. Those thin veneers often delaminate on their own, and you'd be doubling your risk with a face glue up
I’m guilty of over-building, too, (I come from the “build it to last forever, make it indestructible“ people), and sometimes when those things need to be moved around, I definitely regret the extra weight, especially when it’s not on a smooth surface, but a rugged, uneven surface, and the cardboard trick can’t be implemented as well... Although I guess it could still be used a little bit, come to think of it… I had some new builds in mind, so thanks for the reminder, it’s time to downsize the thickness for smaller projects...
There's a saying in engineering. Anyone can build a bridge that'll stand. But it takes an engineer to build a bridge that will barely stand. I think the 1/2" plywood builds fall into that same category. I, too, recently found out (just because of the cost) that 1/2" plywood is pretty damn strong and useful. And if worse comes worse, you can glue it up and get a 1" material (well, 1/16th short of 1")
@@bethanyanderson1745 Oh, things slide along cardboard more easily, so if you have carpet, or even on hardwood or stone, you can put cardboard under the legs, even bring it up around the legs and tape it on if you need to, and the furniture/heavy thing usually slides more easily, or if you have a big enough sheet of it, you can tug the sheet of cardboard itself, and if I were outside on a sort of rocky/uneven surface, I would put a few layers down and slide things along, some to cover the ground, some under the feet of the object itself. They sell those plastic “magic sliders” to go under the feet of furniture but cardboard is usually enough. Sometimes I also “walk” the item, tipping and twisting it from leg to leg or side to side as I go along, or flipping it end over end, protecting the object itself of course. with an uneven surface, you just want a way to make it more even so things don’t stick and get stuck and be hard to move, so cardboard or a sheet of wood or a combination of both can help get things past rough ground. I do a lot of work alone, so you have to get creative sometimes when moving heavy things, and think in terms of evening out the rough or uneven surfaces, making them smooth and slippery, without slipping yourself of course, and in terms of leverage. I don’t know how many kids still use a seesaw or a teeter totter, depending on what part of the country you’re from, but it’s a good way for them to learn how to lift heavy things more easily. Then of course another method on smooth surfaces is a few round wooden rods, like closet rod. If you can get the item up under the rod and get another one under the other end, and have a couple more, you can create “rollers“. Then as you move the item forward, you take the back one and put it towards the front so it has something to move onto, and you just keep rolling it forward along the rods, they become “wheels”. If it’s not super heavy, PVC pipe works as well. If it’s a fairly straight line you are going in, this method works pretty well. Then of course there are the “forearm forklifts”, and they work pretty well, managed to make use of them on my own, they are designed for two people to use together. Just always bend and lift at the knees, and your L4/L5 well thank you, that’s the part of the spine that goes first when people abuse their backs and lift improperly. There’s a reason why at the gym, weight lifters do a loud “whoo-uff!” kind iof grunt when they exhale just as they lift something heavy. They’re exhaling forcefully, and it’s tightening all the muscles around their spine to protect it, they’re not just doing it to sound cool (well, maybe some of them are doing it just to sound cool and they don’t even though they’re protecting their back). You just don’t want to continue to hold your breath, though. You want to hold all those muscles where they are when you make that sound, you want to keep your abs tight, because that helps protect your back, but you don’t want to hold your breath, and that can take people some practice to hold their abs tight but not hold their breath, but eventually they can keep them as separate actions. Holding your breath under exertion can cause a stroke and other damage to your cardiovascular system. You don’t want to deprive your body of oxygen when it’s doing heavy lifting...Especially when you’re lifting overhead, it’s a huge no-no to hold your breath, and a lot of people do it. They can pass out and drop that heavy thing on their head, or on their body as they hit the ground, or give themselves a stroke or heart attack in the process as well. So, hold your abs and glutes tight, and keep on breathing. That protects your back, but if you can’t do both, then just breathe, because breathing is always more important. Always. Extra into, I know, but it seems to go with the whole thing.
Switch about 15 years ago. Had a project in a small area. Looked great and the project just worked. Like you, now, I use what makes since for the project. More often than not, !/2"
I have been SOOOO tempted to start picking up 1/2” instead of 3/4” for a couple years now, but then I always end up telling myself, “Part of the reason you started DIY’ing all your own stuff is too ensure that the quality and longevity is there, if you switch to 1/2” you might as well just go out and buy a cheap version of whatever it is your building and save yourself a ton of hassle” so I end up buying 3/4” everytime anyway. Having seen this though, I think it’s time to give it a try in certain areas. However, just like a lot of the other folks commenting have mentioned, I just really don’t think that it’s a universal use case scenario because there are quite a few situations where 3/4” still seems like it’s the way to go. Mainly any situation that calls for removing material thickness across the length of the board (rebates, dados, etc.) Anyway, thanks for the assurance and confirmation. Always good stuff on this channel ;)
I just finished building a double sink vanity and single sink vanity entirely out of 3/4". I felt it was needed because of the weight of the vanity tops/sinks/water. Moving on to the kitchen cabinets now I'll be using 1/2" for vertical surfaces and 3/4" for horizontal with the exception being the sink cabinet and island will all be made with 3/4".
@MrSheeDo Thank you for chiming in! I’m a girl with no building experience, relying on YT and the guys at my local hardware store for guidance. I’m going to be making a 26” d x 60” w butt joint, double deck (open to the front-no drawers) desk held together with glue and pocket screws. Maybe also brads (although the gun is a bit intimidating). The desk top will be standing on iron hairpin legs. I think I want 3/4” plywood. Also, I like the look of the striated edge, and 1/2” ply wouldn’t give me enough edge. I’m eager to try my hand at using a pocket jig.
@@meridelmoss1802 if, and I express "if" you can find Baltic birch, go for that. But it's hard to find, but if you're looking for that edge you like Baltic birch sheets will provide that
@@patrickkimberlin3209 Thank you for the recommendation. I think Baltic is very pretty. If in short supply, I’ll wait. Better to hang out at the kitchen counter than rush and end up with unlovely results.
I use 1/2in ply for loads of applications and if I want thicker, I glue 1/2in sheets together. That way you can get custom sizes of 3/4in (finished thickness) without having to lug those big heavy 3/4in sheets around.
I agree that 1/2 plywood can be used in many situations around the shop and for smaller projects, but I'm not sure about cabinetry. Face frames are often sized based on the thickness of the upright and the requirements of the hinges. If you use thinner material for the carcass, you'll have to reduce the thickness of your face frames to match. This will affect the end result and the look of the project. Also, any joinery that uses rabbits (rebates) or dadoes (groves/housings) will be significantly weakened. Horizontal spans use 3/4 plywood for a good reason when the span is long enough that deflection is a concern. Don't even try to use pocket screws with 1/2 plywood! The strength of pocket screw joinery relies heavily on the amount of material between the angled hole and the edge of the board. The thinner the board, the smaller this distance will be and you'll have to use shorter screws. Drilling 3/8" diameter holes in 1/2" plywood leaves about 1/16th" on each side. This would significantly reduce the strength of these joints. Again, it depends on what you're building but for an extra $10... I'd also like to point out that, as a beginner, much of what you learn is based on standard dimensions and thicknesses. 3/4 for shelves, uprights, stretchers and nailers... 1/2 for drawer boxes... 1/4 for drawer bottoms and backing. 2" wide face frames when two carcasses meet. 1" (aka 3/4") hardwood for drawer fronts and face frames. Same goes for rails and styles of panel doors. If you use 1/2" plywood instead of 3/4", you'll get tripped up on some important dimensions unless you're really careful.
I'm sorry but I don't follow your logic that if we use thinner material for the carcass that causes us to use a reduced thickness of the face frame? There's no reason you can't make the carcass out of 1/2 and still use 3/4 face frames. Also, you need to define, significantly weakened. A dado in 3/4 is 3/8 deep. A dado in 1/2 is 1/4 deep. I don't buy that the 1/8 difference in depth of the dado is "significantly weaker" The dado in a carcass is supporting a cross member or back panel. That cross member isn't going to fall out of the dado or collapse. The back panel isn't going to break out of the frame either. You've built your argument against 1/2" on unsupported conjecture.
@@jesseporter-qb2vc Sorry. I should have said 'width of the face frame' and not 'thickness'. 1/2" x 2 = 1" thick cabinet wall when two cabinets are attached side by side.... normally this is 3/4" x 2 = 1.5" which we then cover with a 2" wide frame that overhangs each edge 1/4" into the space of the cabinet. If you put a 2" wide frame over top of the joint where the two 1/2" walls meet, you'll have a 1/2" overhang on each side. Drawer slides and hinges are often made to fit a 1/4" overhang so 1/2" will need padding. Not the end of the world, I suppose, but something that needs to be considered. You're probably right about the dadoes.
If you go to Baltic Birch ply, anything you’re typically using 3/4 standard or premium lumber yard ply, can be reduced to 3/8. I’ve been building cabinets for 18 years and in Baltic birch, every vertical panel can be 3/8 and out perform any particle board or MDF. I’ll go to 1/2 or maximum 5/8 for shelves and bottoms for extra wide spans.
You are awesome at making this easier for some of us that are not experienced, except for wood shop in high school, 50 years ago. Thanks for keeping it simple.
I just made a bunch of 30”x30” using 5/8” plywood instead of 3/4 or 1/2 inch. Since they are used in my wood shop, I didn’t require hardwood veneers, and to increase utility, each 30x30 has a 30x12 cubby with no doors. I got BCX plywood and made sure the exposed walls were B grade. So happy with my cabinets and even more happy with the open cubbies!
I used 1/2 inch plywood for a 55 gallon aquarium stand. Everyone around here said it could not hold the over 500 pounds, but I used two narrow shelves on each side 1 foot wide and the center was set up for a sump tank. 1/2 inch is amazing strong as you stated.
Timely video for me. I made a bathroom vanity using 3/4" maple plywood, but I did use 1/2" maple plywood for the drawers. I went to Menards to buy Kreg pocket screws for 1/2" material and a Menard's department head ask if I found what I wanted and asked about my project. I said I was making vanity drawers from 1/2" maple plywood and he said I should make them from 3/4". He is an older gentleman (my age maybe). I said I usually use 1/2" for drawers and love the results. But after seeing this video, I plan to look into the 1/2" plywood for the next vanity I need to build for a 2nd bathroom. Thanks for this nice video.
I can't help it, I want to overbuild. My night stand should be able to support the weight of a car. I want my stuff to last as long as ancient Roman roads and bridges. Maybe I should switch to 4" stones instead of wood...
You notice you don’t find antiques woodwork cabinetry or furniture made out of 1/2” materials! Majority of furniture/cabinetry made today won’t ever last long enough to be considered a antique in the future!
I've been looking into building a french cleat system in my shop and watching lots of videos about that to get ideas. I'm inclined to use 3/4 for the cleats themselves, but I've been surprised at how many people use 3/4 for all of the little bins and fixtures they mount on their cleat wall. It's definitely not needed for strength and it wastes space on the wall because all the fixtures are bigger than they need to be. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
This is a very good point, Earl. I like 3/4” for the cleat (have used it before on this channel and will use it again), but building small fixtures with 3/4” is just cumbersome. 1/2” looks much more appropriate for small storage.
@@TheHonestCarpenter I have always used 1X pine or fir for French cleats. It cuts smoother than plywood and doesn't"t chip out: there are no voids. Plus it's just as strong (or stronger) than an engineered product like plywood. The cleats are never seen, so dimensional lumber works for me.
I won't confirm, since I am (an eternal) beginner. But looking at the many woodworking videos I see on YT , this french cleat business seems to me often overkill : making holes in wall, all this wood used for taking care of stuff which could safely stay in a jam-jar easily, (think to the planet, my god!), and who wants to move one's tools from one place to the other all the time... My two cents. (And I am French ! :))
@@etiloyon3681, I agree that it is easy to go overboard with shop fixtures and furnishings, but as another eternal beginner, I consider making them practice for my "real" projects, and therefore time well spent. Also, about 20 years ago I moved into a new house and soon put up large peg-board sheets on one wall of my garage shop to store all my tools. Over the years as I got new tools, I had to spend time reorganizing as I got new tools that I wanted to keep near related ones. French cleats would have made that much easier. Finally, about two years ago I moved to a new house. If I had made a french cleat wall 20 years ago, it would have been easier to quickly put new cleats up on a wall here, and then put up all my existing fixtures. But now I have to essentially start over with organizing my new shop.
@@earlmorton1216 Ah, yes, it's true. Many people buy tool for building gears for putting tool. And they use a lot of composite wood like platted wood, MDF, and so forth. Here in France I just bought a board of chestnut board (2.5m x 0.20m x 0.02m and I understand them. €10 = $12 ! !Woodworking is turning into trendy hobby. Maybe I am wrong after all . The fact is I don't like to make holes in my walls and you have to admit French cleats don't help at this level. Good luck for your projects and thanks for your kind time.
Two big reasons Im sticking with 3/4 for most of my cabinetry: pocket holes and dados. I agree that 1/2 is great for small bits of shelving, but those usually get made with scraps of 3/4 thats laying around the shop.
I've been trying 1/2 on large upper cabinets for the backs. Large being in the range of 44 high x 48 wide. I have found that pocket screws will do well going through the 1/2 into 3/4, so mixed thicknesses to do this. Check jig settings and screw lengths before going live though.
So great! I finished a project in my "Krude Karpentry" at our cottage using 1/2" ply. Reason was simply price at first, then I noticed exactly the same things, light weight, easy to operate and cut etc. The end product, sizeable wood framed doors for an outdoor shed, become manageable and easier to assemble to an existing structure. I am so happy I watched your video, again.
Good video. Solid thinking. I always keep in mind that 2x8 joists 16" apart, I think 8' span (might only be 6') with 5/8" or is it 3/4" plywood can easily support 2000 pounds per square foot. You can drive a car over it. Even my 4400 pound Tesla. So if you need to do anything less - like fit out a van? You would never ever need 3/4" plywood for anything. On the other end of the engineering scale are honeycomb reinforced sheets used for floors in jet air liners. This stuff is basically a honey comb pattern maybe 1/2" deep with 1/16th inch (maybe thinner) sheets of aluminum epoxied to each side. Hundreds of pounds will deflect it less than 1/8" (ever walked on an airplane and thought, 'this floor is springy'? Me neither. Too many RUclipsrs are inexperienced and grossly overbuilding their projects. I like using the cheaper 1/2" luan plywood from Home Depot. It's super light weight. I made a bunk (platform) for the back of my Prius. Just over 6' long, It's supported (across) about a foot from each end, so it's got a center span about 4' To stiffen it, 2" in from one side and 3" in from the other side I glued 1" strips of the plywood. (Glued it, then screwed it - as clamps. When the glue dried removed the screws). Works great for four years now. Even after I busted out a 6" gap in one of the rails it still works. And it's very light so easy to move in and out. I've made large drawers 29 x 29" using finger jointed baltic birch ply. Made at least 30 of them. Use them in cabinets (flat files for art) and in my shop. Never ever had a problem with any of them. (Not sure what the bottoms are. It's been 20+ years). I also made book shelf open boxes hung on French cleats - hundreds of pounds of books - no flex, no problems. The 1/2 inch steps - the only real problem with 1/2" is supporting it where the weight is applied and chipping off the edges. And your closet shelves - the only problem is supporting the front edge - which you solve. The ply in your truck bed. Another reason to go with the thicker ply is as it gets damaged and worn it will hold up over time better than the half inch because it has more layers to tear through so it'll take much much longer to start busting through. Another thing. I made a teacher cart. I didn't have a classroom so had to move every period. So I made a cabinet on wheels that I could pop open (or lock) he lid and set my laptop on. At the bottom I had a laser printer, two drawers... wheels, push handle. 1/4" plywood. As soon as I finished the first one I knew how to make it better. So a few months later I made a second one...and as soon as I finished it I knew how to make an even better third one. But I never got around to it. BTW this is also the best way to have fun. The design it, build it, it's done - is boring and ultimately half-assed. What engineers do is keep making something lighter and lighter until it breaks and then back up a step. This argues for lighter cheaper materials. Plywood also has two properties: strength and coverage. For kitchen cabinets the primary consideration is coverage - spanning space. Strength can then be added. Rails, good corner attachment.... But then that's more parts. So 3/4 or 1/2 and good corner attachment, maybe a simple rail to support shelves.... The point then gets three aspects: coverage, strength and complexity. That's what we're working with when we build boxes and shelves. (It's why hollow core doors are 1/8" ply with cardboard in the middle. It's nicer to be heavier, but not needed.) Hope this is interesting.
Very useful tip!! I would probably add that plywood does not have the same stiffness in both directions. it is a good practice to align the outermost layers' grain direction with the span if the length allows it. I learned about 1/2 being strong enough from John Heisz videos.
I have noticed that many use thick plywood for just about everything. I have been using 1/2" material for a long time and had no issues with it. Sometimes I do use 3/4" material when necessary, but 1/2" had been my go to for years. And the small pieces are great for small projects, especially for shop projects I'm using myself. I even used 3/8" material for some projects.
I agree with your assessment of 1/2" ply, but there are some cabiots to this thinking: not all 1/2" plywood is created equal, and some plywood is really unstable, which makes the lessor thickness a bigger liability so buyer beware! Just about anything I have bought at the big box store has warped severely if not sealed within the first couple of months.
In my town there is a peddler's mall that has a large booth with "wood" odds and ends. They have LOTS of 1/2" plywood in 2'x8' size for $9! A couple of them even had natural unfinished walnut on one side. I'm building some kitchen cabinets to expand our kitchen in our relatively small house. Nothing is over 24" deep. With the price of lumber these days, I bought a bunch. Thanks to your video, I'm no longer concerned about strength. Thank you!🙂 I have 25 acres of woods here (rural Kentucky) with a lot of oak, poplar and walnut. I might use some of the poplar (they call them Tulip trees here) for the fronts.
3/8" inch ply is very handy too. It all depends on what reinforcements you use and where they're placed. I once built a floor-to-ceiling storage in a corner. I used 3/8 for the vertical parts because the shelves true out the wood and the load vertically wasn't affected at all.
I learned all this a few months ago. The nearby store was out of 3/4 and I didn't have time for the store to restock. It was a decorative piece, so we used 1/2 inch and it was plenty strong and much lighter. I never really went back to 3/4. You just don't need it in most applications. 5/8 ply is also a good option when you need need to save a little but need something big and structural. A client of mine bought 5/8 ply instead of 3/4 and we used a few sheets to build some closets. They're holding up just fine. In my area you can get 1/2 inch ply for 70% of the price of 3/4, probably because people don't use it as much (and it's always in stock to boot). Even hardwood veneered 1/2 inch ply is really cheap!
When you do followup videos where you use 1/2" material, I'd love to see more about how you manage the joinery, including situations where thicker material is warranted. For example, when is 1/2" material appropriate for pocket screw joinery; attaching cleats, runners, or slides to the face the material; dados for partitioning a cabinet or box, etc.
Yeah, I would be concerned with rabbets, dados for shelving, and half-lap joints. I think glue will help, but I think you would at least need 3/4 material for the uprights of a tall cabinet. But I have used 1/2" ply for simple square boxes with box joints on the corners and those have been extremely sturdy.
I thought the video would go into reinforcement techniques when using the 1/2" ply at its limits, as opposed to just information that the 3/4" is just overkill in most applications.
I've done 36" tall cabinets with 1/2" but the walls were weak so instead of mdf backing, i used another piece of 1/2 ply for the back and pocket joined to the carcass to keep rigidity
TY HC. I priced 5/8” plywood at $48.xx to $58.xx a sheet. Need it for countertop substrate. I found 1/2” Sumauma plywood at Lowes for $31.xx a sheet and used a 1/4” filler. (Needed a total height of 1 1/4”)
I always felt this way but everyone pushes for 3/4. I think things look lighter and more elegant. 3/4 reminds me of the chunky stuff my dad made when I was a kid. You don’t need your shelving unit to be bomb proof, but you do want it to last. 1/2 will do that for you. Build smart and it is plenty strong.
Great message here! I liked this enough that I had to look up my password just to log in and throw in my two cents. Having moved my share of insanely heavy DIY furniture pieces, I can appreciate a weight reduction. Cost is a plus too, but don't miss the message: don't default to 3/4" when something thinner will satisfy structural requirements. How thin? Well now, that is entering a whole new realm... Ever heard of ultralight plywood boats? The hull is a shell of thin flexible plywood (4 and 6 millimeters!). The strength/stiffness comes from the edge and "joint" treatments, e.g. gunwale, keel, and chine. Take another look at some of the pieces he showed in the video: those face frames, wall cleats and tiny strips at the corners of intersecting panels (middle of the storage above that custom wardrobe at 3:12 and the center of the closet shelves at 3:34) are there to give them strength. Now, at 4:16 he talks about avoiding large spans. But do you see that he could have put a cleat along the back edge of that unit to stiffen the shelf? It already is going to get the face frame, so it is a simple upgrade to add it. Want to go bigger? Add ribs, like the back of a guitar or piano soundboard! Let me show my colors here: I've built an ultralight boat before. A rowing skiff out of 6 mm marine plywood and 14 feet long, if I recall correctly (30 years ago...). I think it was 90 pound total. I weighed 130 pounds in those days and could pick it up--though it was awkward! Anyway, when it came time to build some stuff at my home, what do you think I did? Yup, 1/4" outdoor plywood that I used to be able to get at the lumber yard. What a trip. I was building stuff on my dining room floor, gluing 1x2 (nominal) battens to whole sheets and cutting up the middle of each batten to make my pieces with one "chine" already attached. Lets' see...a 6.5 foot tall pantry in the kitchen, about 22" wide and 30" deep with recycled cabinet doors (the only "thick" stuff on it other than the face frames). It is packed with cookbooks, appliances and food stuffs and hasn't fallen down. My daughter got a shallow bookcase almost as tall for all her collections. The edges look nearly 1" thick because all intersections and free edges (front edges) have a ~3/4" square strip glued to them. My other daughter got a 8 foot long, 16 inch deep "low shelf" unit that ran under a window. On top of that went about 4 foot wide bookcase about 12" deep that reached to the top of the window. The trick was put central support in the lower unit, i.e. vertical face frame and ribs under the top. I did have to rework that one--I didn't think about needing that rib to support a 12" deep unit on a 16" deep surface. An easy fix. The only limit is really just the stability of your panel stock and your ingenuity. I was using 1/4" luan underlayment, but it was absolutely stable. I never saw a piece buckle or curl unless I left if leaning some where--and I could always glue it flat when making parts. The luan vernier could have been nicer, but is was better than what luan plywood used to be a few decades before! I was going to build more but then my source switched to some trashy underlayment that would warp up and bubble just laying on the floor of an air conditioned house. I could have tracked down some of that nice birch plywood or even marine grade plywood, but those weren't $20 a sheet like the other stuff was. And life got busier.
I use a ton of 1/2 and thinner for many many things. 3/4 is awesome bulletproof stuff but just hauling and storing full sheets is such a pain. However, for certain things it pays dividends to go to 3/4 like longer span shelves, or wide/tall vertical cabinet or closet dividers and walls. It stays flat and warp free on it's own. Plenty of bite for screws that won't poke through the other side. Most stair treads for sure. Work tables: 2 layers of 3/4! 1/2 will sag and you will spend more time and money on more frequent shelf supports. Span strength across say 30-48" is vastly stiffer than 1/2, sorry. Also sorry but 1/2 looks kinda flimsy, with 3/4 you don't need to face it with solid pieces to strengthen or hide how thin it is. You can just put on a quick iron on edge veneer and it looks solid because it is solid.
your the first woodworker we watch that explains the importance of 1/2.as a newbie we always consider the price of wood. now we can make projects less expensive.
The drawers for all my kitchen cabinets I made with 1/2" Baltic Birch ply. When you use a much better plywood than you find in the usual stores it works much better in every way. No voids, no knots, much tighter.
Good video. I've been a carpenter in the construction maintenance field for 40 years now. My current job though I work for a public school system so everything has to be out of 3/4" wood. But yes half inch is suitable for residential and mid-range cabinetry. To give you an idea how strong half inch plywood is or even quarter inch. But when we build houses out of 2x4 lumber which is now 1 1/2"×3 1/2" now. (And there's a reason for that and there's a reason why almost all stock lumber is 3/4" in I'll explain that in a minute) But when we have an open such as a doorway or a window we take two by sixes and turn them upright onto the jack studs and in the center we here and fasten between the two 2x6s 1/2-in sheet of with this method you could hoist engines out with it by throwing a chain over that's how strong that plywood can be.But Going 24 in on a span with 1/2-in plywood alone is pushing it if you put too much weight on it without a faceplate or a center stil as they are called.(Spelling) But even on 3/4 inch plywood whenever I build shelving cabinets of any kind I always put a face on there if not inch and a half wide no less thickness than of the board but not only do I mechanically fasten it I also use wood glue The wood will be stronger than any fastener or stronger than wood itself once it's set. Back in the day when they said a 2x4 it actually measured 2 in by 4 in. Same with all lumber 1 in actually meant one inch not only in lumber but also in gypsum board in every other building material of the day. Overtime they just have reduced this back and still call it the same product but charge you more for less and that is in everything that we use as consumers today. And of course it's 2024 and prices are still outrageous. Good video! Glad to see young people still enjoying wood work with their hands!
We built our entire bus interior out of 12mm plywood which is very similar in size to 1/2” with 42x19mm timber for framing. Worked great and saved us heaps of weight. Only issue is that the widely used euro style hinges in cabinets are too big so we had to use different style hinges.
Hi John, We’re building out a van and using 1/2” ply for our cabinet doors. What hinges did you end up going with? We just realized you have to drill a 1/2” hole to install cabinet door hinges and are not quite sure how to proceed. Good things, Nat
“Doesn’t tear up shoulders and wrists” that’s a pro comment. So important over time Thanks for this video. I have never questioned using 3/4. Always assumed 1/2 was too weak.
This info is SO in time!!! Thanks! I'm about to dig into huge all furniture project (starting with kitchen build) for my 1st client and was looking for ways to cheap it down in materials costs. You're right, wood prices are going crazy these days here in Russia as well! I definetely happy I came across your channel! You got me. I subscribe!
I’ve been a cabinet maker for over 45 years and worked for cabinet shops that used 1/2” plywood in their cabinets and for shops that used 3/4” plywood. I can tell you for a fact that1/2” isn’t near as strong as 3/4” and 1/2” also tends to bend or warp a whole lot easier too! If your using 1/2” plywood for shelving. Especially if it’s adjustable shelving you have to keep your shelves much shorter then you do with 3/4” plywood. You will not find a high end cabinet shop using 1/2” plywood for their cabinets and there’s good reasons for that! Only thing I use 1/2” Baltic birch for is for drawer sides and that’s about it! With that being said though, the more plus in 1/2 or 3/4 the stronger and more stable it will be! Keep a wye eye on how many plays are in the material your buying? Also watch out for import versus domestic materials, being imported materials are not anywhere near as good as domestic materials. For example the veneer on imported plywood is usually so thin you can literally see the glue that holds the veneer on the plywood. It comes presanded and if you attempt to sand it yourself your very likely to sand thru the veneer. Where domestic plywood has veneer much closer to a 1/16” thick and usually enough veneer that you can even refinish the plywood later in years when you want to restain your cabinets a different color. Imported plywood about all you can do to change it is to paint over it! Good materials certainly cost a lot more, but if you want a quality long lasting cabinets you’ll be glad you spent the extra money in the long run! Long story short, I don’t care how great of a woodworker you are? You can’t build quality cabinets out of cheap materials! In the beginning the cheap stuff may look just as nice as the expensive stuff. But just wait 5-10 years down the line if that and then you’ll see the difference for yourself and be spending more money replacing those cheap materials you bought for cabinets first time around! Only thing worse then 1/2” if using particle board or chipboard and that includes the white vinyl plastic veneer that’s also has a chipboard core! Many people fall for the look of the white vinyl inside the cabinets thinking it looks so easy to keep clean. But that vinyl shrinks over time and scratches very easily and eventually you’ll see at least some of that chipboard/particleboard core and not much you can do to fix the problem but replace your cabinets! Oh and if your chipboard/particleboard gets wet if literally falls apart in flakes
I switched like this by accident about 2 years ago and thought I'd try it and it worked out. Where I really needed the strength I doubled the material to total 1 inch over that small area still keeping my total cost way down. I'm already planning my next project with 1/2 " plywood.
I built my entire pantry walls out of 1/2" ply b/c it's so freakin expensive to get 3/4". I actually was regretting it and having second thoughts on my way home until i finished the project, it's plenty strong and works great! No regrets here! Just comes down to application of course.
He makes a good point that 1/2 has advantages over 3/4 - no question - but it's important to apply thoughtful design and intelligence to your work. At 4:22 he mentions bending strength and suggests there is " not much " difference between the two. This misleading : bending strength is proportional to the thickness CUBED. So 3/4 material will be 3-375 times stronger than 1/2 inch that is ( 3/4*2/1 )^3 = 1.5^3 = 3.375.
Thanks for this video, something I never thought about. In class we just use 3/4" sheet goods and as a hobbyist I just assumed it was what you did and never gave 1/2" a thought.
I already build a big ass cabinet for a kitchen, all of ¾ plywood. Six ft tall and 3 ft wide and 14 inch deep. When I ended the assembly, shit got damn heavy and strong. I didn't expect that, but hell, if you kick that thing, you're gonna break your leg. Also, it makes me so proud and happy everytime I see it.
This literally came up the day after I ordered a load of OSB boards to create shelves in my roof trusses. I’m in the UK so had the options of 18mm or 11mm which I’m guessing are comparable. I was brave and went for the 11mm. Started working with it last night after watching this video. So much easier to work and it’s definitely strong enough. Thanks for putting my mind at ease- I made the right choice!
I built kitchen utensil drawers out of 1/2 inch sides and 1/4 inch bottoms. Plenty strong. Now for pots and pans drawers that could potentially hold 50-75lbs of pots and pans, I’m thinking still 1/2 inch sides but using 1/2 inch bottom, especially with a width of 23 inches. Will be using 1/4 1/4 1/4 method to build the drawer boxes.
Thanks for this video, Ethan. I hope it finally convinces my wife (who is also a woodworker) that half-inch plywood is just fine for most of her projects. I’ve been trying to convince her for over a year. 😉
I made my first workshop table bench and shelving with 12mm plywood (I'm in Australia so it's the equivalent). It's plenty strong. I put 60-70kg of weights to test its strength over 2 days and it was rock solid.
@@MLaak86 no worries. I currently holding all my extra timber purchases, tools and it's not budging one bit. Definitely strong as long as you brace it evenly.
@@jiminy2731 Planning out a table for miniature modelling work (3D printing, constructing, airbrushing and hand painting) so pry don't need something super heavy duty but still able to hold some weight
1/2 can definitely be substituted for 3/4 in many applications but, you can screw or nail into 3/4, where with the 1/2 is not a good idea, unless it’s a pin or a brad. yes, pre drilling is required with the 3/4, but the 1/2” will get destroyed, unless it’s sitting in a dado with plenty of glue, and in that case nails are not required.
Heck, even 1/8" is enough on the back of a bookcase to prevent racking. my bookcases from Target from 15 years ago had thin fiberboard, and that's even been enough through all of these years.
Yep! 1/4" backs in a rabbet, glued and nailed, are incredibly strong. Same principle, but but much better than the cardboard used in most knock down furniture.
Sure it was the prices? Or did someone finally find a straight piece of something? lmfao. I'm sure I'd faint if I found anything at hd that resembled straight.
As a professional carpenter /cabinet maker, what I do most of the time is supplement 1//2" birch ply cross members with 3/4" side walls, you'll find that a 1/2" dado in a 3/4" side wall, makes for a very strong joint, when im spanning more than 36" with 1/2" shelves, i'll use a piece of 1x as a strongback under the shelf , then put the nosing on covering the entire edge.
I've used all thicknesses of plywood for various jobs. I always go as thin as possible while keeping safety, like 1/4" for drawer bottoms, linen closet shelves, paneling a room that already has 1/2" or better drywall for the "real wood look". dresser/cabinet backing (assuming the rest of the frame is solidly built.
I used to make everything with 1/2" - even desktops (although admittedly I wouldn't necessarily do that again). It's certainly strong enough for relatively small surfaces. I've also used it within dimensional lumber frames to create custom interior doors. I've even made custom closet doors entirely from 1/2" ply.
why wouldn't you use it again for desktops??, i want to build one for my computer set up and i was hopping to make it arround 4 inches thick and i am considering unsing 1/2" on top and botom sheet and 3/4 for all supports in between, should i consider changing the top sheet?
Hell, I got two pieces of furniture (kinda look like double door pie chests with solid doors) from my neighbor that have the sides, back and doors made from 1/4 ply, the shelves 3/8 and the top 1/2 ply. These were used for his books and he built them himself 60 years back. They are still in good shape!
I’m not a Carpenter but and then ounce of common sense goes a long way. I was thinking this exact same thing a month ago with some projects that I have to do.
My friend,you are so right.3/4 inch plywood is complete overkill. I've been building some kitchen units out of 3/4 inch ply, totally unnecessary,they are built like a tank,so heavy, so cumbersome. 1/2 inch or 5/8 is the way to go. Much easier to work and saw. Great video.
I have done some woodworks in the past but this woodwork plan ruclips.net/user/postUgkxZF0EMnrujZvqHhGkxiz559uIABJWR9TG helps me do much in a far lesser time than i used to do i have already built several projects with this plan and i intend to do many more soon. Thank you so much!
100% agree! One thing you didn't cover is that not all plywood is created equal. If I'm doing cabinets I want Baltic birch plywood. That raises the price but the product is far better. It's got no voids, it's flat (!) and the edges look far better than inferior plywood. I've actually seen table tops rounded over, sanded smooth, and finished in Baltic birch that looked beautiful. I get shop grade for shop projects, and you can even get pre-finished furniture grade for cabinetry, etc. If something is going to get rough use I'll get the big box stuff but that stuff isn't flat and I hate it.
Ethan, good points. One key technique for brad nail blowout is to turn your nail gun perpendicular to the edge of the surface you are nailing along. This make the nail contort along the workpieces width, not its thickness...which produces blowout. I built from solid pine drawer boxes from true 1/4" thick material for my drill press cabinet, and glued/brad nailed it all. No issues.
Thank you, i have been trying to get answers why 3/4" verses 1/2" plywood and i found nothing to answer my question. I was beginning to think 1/2" plywood in woodworking was voodoo and therefore i avoided it. My pocket thanks you, my wife thanks you, and oh yes my dog thanks you.
So, good advice. Would you do a follow up video on any changes in joinery technique that you use to help the 1/2 inch plywood out. Things like pocket hole changes, loose tenon, the use of screws and glue etc. Do you ever combine 1/2 inch plywood with MDF or particle board/Melamine? I would think that once out of the 3/4 rut, the possibilities are much greater. However with that complexity comes increased design considerations. Thanks and Stay Safe.
I like your point. 3/4" OSB is used for floors, and 1/2" OSB is used for walls. Makes sense that if you aren't anticipating climbing up onto the project, 1/2" will probably do. Not to mention that plywood is much stronger than OSB in my examples, so standing on 1/2" might be a maybe...
This is so timely. I am about to build a 6' wide floor to ceiling storage cabinet in our laundry room. Thanks for the assurance that 1/2" is going to be fine!
I just had copper foil plumbing pipes installed that are 98% lighter then that old overweight standard copper pluming which results in better gas mileage per mile. Next we're getting lightweight electrical wiring that's said to reduce electrical consumption 97% by reducing the flow of electric current by 97% it's truly ingenious what they've come up with... I'm so stoked about it all.
Thanks for another great video, I fully support using 1/2" ply over 3/4", together with your advice to use face frames, centre supports on spans longer than 24" and cleats, makes the whole project easier including measuring, and no doubt on cost saving. I must also commend you on your pronunciation of Navrathri, awesome! Stay safe and well.
@@pachinkotronkfollo1075 I like using maranti, better than using pine because it is easier to finish, although you can use pine if you want to paint it.
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Glad I watched this video. I got approved for a loan to buy a sheet of 1/2", but not 3/4".
Hope you didn't go with an ARM. The lower rates are tempting I know but you can really get stuck 3 or 4 years down the road when the interest rates rise - then you may lose your whole piece of plywood to foreclosure.
don't miss the payments and your credit report will take off like a rocket on that !!!
Very good.
We’re working on our credit score.... started by applying for a drink at Starbucks
You gotta start somewhere, right?!?
Congratulations that’s not easy with the condition of our economy , not only is the price of wood crazy expensive but with the way the government is printing money and giving it away to every special interest group that piece of 1/2 plywood may cost 710.00 dollars .
Im almost 64 and been doing woodworking for over 50 years and 1/2" plywood is very strong so I agree with you I did all of my kitchen cabinet so anyone watching this the man is right try it and then make up your mind but trust me hes right
Is 1/2-inch plywood thick enough to allow for European hinges?
You belong to the elite group of
instructors that make every word count and do not ramble on aimlessly. I learn from all of
your videos. Many thanks!
Good grief…😩
And I hope I never get sooo good that I can no longer learn from a master.
My wife was always telling me 1/2” would make a big difference, now I finally understand what she was talking about.
🤣 You made my morning thanks!
Ha...I just caught on 😀
🤣🤣🤣
She was wanting more, not less.
Good one! 😂
Prices still suck in 2024.
Can still buy 20 prime studs for the cost of a sheet of 3/4". Insanity.
Right!
Fantastic. My husband and I have just about every power/hand tool known to man (or woman). My husband actually knows how to use all of these tools and is a great teacher on how to best utilize them. Also very safety conscious! I love using 1/2" plywood and he has been a 3/4" fan. (Just stronger! GRRR) I appreciate the support and info from your wonderful channel. He may even admit that 1/2" could actually be an alternative to some of his bulky wood projects. When I need to create a shelf, etc., I always go with 1/2" (supports, too). It is much more fun to handle and, having a Sawstop table saw now I feel so much more confident in ripping, etc. ☮
Glad to see this explanation. 1/2" ply has been strong enough for me for nightstands and even a bar cabinet holding heavy bottles. One lesson though is that you need to be a little more careful with pocket hole jigs as 1/2" settings arent quite right and you can pop out the side if you drill all the way to the stop - an issue you dont have with 3/4"
Exactly what i wanted to know. Tips on 1/2 inch joinery using pocket hole jig. Or other methods.
Exactly what I wanted to know as well. I'm going to be building a pantry and want to use pocket holes. I'll be storing large amounts of flour as well so 1/2" just won't cut it. I made bookshelves out of 1/2" when I was a young person and that didn't work out well with heavy leather books.
@@annyeongdreamz24 I've been using basic #8x3/4 pan-head wood screws bought in bulk at a local hardware supplier instead of Kreg pocket screws. I like to use rabbited joints on intersections and drawer boxes so I get more grain contact. And I ALWAYS use glue. Remember, the majority of the joint strength comes from the glue. Watch this test on different types of joints - ruclips.net/video/CE147Ow7RmM/видео.html
figured that out a few times. haha
Pocket holes suck for just about everything. They are a crutch for people who don't know real carpentry. Carpentry got along for centuries without them and most of the stuff being made with them won't last more than a decade.
Intelligent mixing of the two. 3/4" and 1/2" plywood.
In my home woodworking shop I've gone completely to 1/2" ply unless I absolutely have to use 3/4". I mostly use Baltic birch 1/2" ply for shop furniture and small to medium projects. It comes in 5'x5' sheets and costs about the same per square foot as regular birch ply but it's birch all the way through and the surface veneers are the same thickness as the internal layers and there is almost never a void in it. Standard hardwood veneered plywoods have paper thin outer veneers that can be sanded through easily. I built a drill press stand with 4 drawers from 1/2" Baltic birch except for the top of the stand which was 3/4" because the "benchhtop" drill press weighs about 120 pounds. It's plenty strong in well designed pieces.
I’m trying to clear space to be able to make my first French cleat wall and wondered if it would make sense to use 3/4” for the cleats and 1/2” for the containers? I’d be doing it partly to save some money, but like Ethan said, stuff in 1/2” looks more elegant. If built right, 1/2” should be plenty strong for the containers, right?
For the non-us viewers: 3/4 inch plywood typically weighs 25 kg and 1/2 inch plywood weighs 15.9 kg. Great video!
I love this because when someone asks me why I went with 1/2” instead of 3/4” I can now give them a slew of reasons why. Instead of just saying it’s cheaper and lighter 😁
I have been using 1/2 inch ply for years, I also use 2 x 3's instead of 2 x 4's, and yes I did because of cost, lighter, and in most cases it's easier to work with, thanks for info, you do nice work, I look forward to your videos, I learn something new every time...
I use 1/2" plywood. I learn that Iif I use the proper amount of "support " I maintained the same structural strength. The majority of custom cabinet makers in my area use 1/2 for the carcass. Good video
Thanks for this explanation. I was cringing at the cost of building custom cabinets with 3/4”, so knowing that 1/2” will work will actually save thousands of dollars on my projects.
I just did all new cabinets in my kitchen. I experimented with half-inch, but I just could not get consistent results from the pocket screws. My local dealer carries 5/8 baltic birch and that worked out superbly. I was committed to pocket screws because we downsized a few years ago and we don't have space for a table saw (my son inherited my woodshop machines when we moved)
I now make my living with wood (previously just a keen hobbyist), but I'd be lost without my table saw. I guess you break down sheet goods with a track saw or handheld circular now? I made a pocket hole jig a few years ago, and has been handy on occasion, though at some point I would like to properly explore its usage, especially with dowels, or maybe also utilising my domino machine. I like the build method of IKEA furniture, so maybe one day.
As a relatively new woodworker, I struggle with designing my own projects because I didn’t know when to use what lumber. Thx Ethan.
Anne, if you can... dumpster diving at a construction site can yield useful materials. I pulled good materials from a dumpster which was placed at the curbside of a city street, so there was no trespassing issue.
TIP: learn “Sketchup” modeling & design software. It will help you A TON. You can virtually design i.e. desk and know up front if each piece will fit correctly before ever buying/wasting lumber. In addition, it will print out all the dimensions, plans, and many other features. A lot of people are not aware that it’s designed for woodworking (and MANY other areas) not just houses, etc.
Also, the great thing is it’s not too difficult to learn and use (unlike other programs that can be very challenging and frustrating). There’s A LOT of resources, community, and learning materials available (large amount for FREE).
It's funny. I remember the day I came to this realization. I was building out a walk in closet with a full storage system. When I went to buy the plywood they only had 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood. Not wanting to delay the project, I bought 1/2". At first I couldn't believe the weight difference of the towers that made up the majority of the system. Installation was simple. The longest shelf span I had was 24" and initially I was freaking out it would bow eventually. 14 years later I look at those shelves 5 times a day and see that they are still perfectly straight. Over the years most of my projects, other than kitchens carcasses or things I need hinges, are 1/2". Let's face it, I'm not parking a car on it, they just hold a few pairs of pants.
I'm an older man and have used 1/2" most of my life (not as a carpenter, just for misc projects, not usually anything decorative) for the reasons stated.
But a problem I kept coming up against was screwing or nailing into the edge of 1/2". Too easy to split the wood if you miss the edge with a nail, and screws were out of the question. Which led to a variety of solutions: using a combination of 3/4" pine and 1/2" plywood (screw into the edge of the pine); putting 3/4"x 3/4" trim in the interior edges to screw to; L-brackets; etc.
Thank thank you thank you. I have been saying this for a couple of decades. I have been told I am too cheap because of this, but build to the need has always been my mantra.
I like your optimism. It’s 2023 and those plywood prices look GREAT now…
You RUclips pros are a godsend for the diy selfer I just built my first kitchen counter and cupboards for my mom and she loves it. Keep up the good work.
Excellent show sir. Thanks for posting it. When I was young just out of High school I made sure to get schooling in all the trades. I went for plumbing, heating A/C, electrical and even welding. I held licenses in all of them. My father was a carpenter/roofer so I already was trained in that by him. I have never needed to call anyone in my 35+ years of homeownership. I take pride in that. I am also a classic car collector. See where the welding helps...hahaha. Anyway, looking forward to your videos.
I usually split the difference and go to 5/8" sheet for cabinetry. Even then, Uday Vadula, there is little to no room for error on pocket screws. I also find that the 1/2" is often warped; whereas the 5/8 is flat as can be. I will reconsider some projects for 1/2, but I need to be convinced by working out the bugs and considering the downsides as well as the upsides.
The number one concern with any plywood is "How many plies?" Both five eights and three quarters are five ply in my experience. Half inch is often three ply which is very unstable and not nearly as strong. The grade also matters as the cruder grades for roof decking and such have lots of voids in the center plies.If you are talking "cabinet grade" five ply stain grade then yes, it will be strong and stable. Half inch CDX not so much. Even Pine BC grade can be questionable. Just something to think about.
That can depend a lot on where you buy it. For just a couple dollars more per sheet, my local lumber yard has 1/2" and 5/8" that are 5 plies, and 3/4" that has 7 plies! That stuff is strong and stable.
I’ve used a lot of 3-ply 1/2” plywood. It works ok, but takes a lot more effort. By comparison, 5-ply birch 1/2” is a luxury.
I just had a washing machine flood a cabinet I built 12 years ago. It filled 6 drawers with water. I was surprised that the drawers stayed together, and wet water-tight. Just cheap 1/2” 3-ply. But I recall hating the splinters the rough pine plywood was producing.
Oddly, I can afford better, but grew up scavenging whatever I could.
@@hjeffwallace Yeah, for sure. I'm definitely guilty of dumpster diving for lumber scraps all the time. I'm not even talking about fancy birch, though. Just the normal SYP plywood at my local lumber yard has 1 or 2 more plies for the same thickness as the Lowes crap.
Is there a downside to gluing 2 sheets of 1/4" to get a higher ply count than "regular" 1/2"? It should be about the same $, but 2x the plys.
Yes, I'm cheap. Yes, "regular" ply is a lot easier to just go get at the big-box toy store.
@@brucebennett7229 Should be fine if you you glue up properly. I'd only worry about delamination if you're using veneered plywood from the box stores. Those thin veneers often delaminate on their own, and you'd be doubling your risk with a face glue up
I’m guilty of over-building, too, (I come from the “build it to last forever, make it indestructible“ people), and sometimes when those things need to be moved around, I definitely regret the extra weight, especially when it’s not on a smooth surface, but a rugged, uneven surface, and the cardboard trick can’t be implemented as well... Although I guess it could still be used a little bit, come to think of it… I had some new builds in mind, so thanks for the reminder, it’s time to downsize the thickness for smaller projects...
You’re welcome, Miss Kim! After years of lugging around 3/4”, it won’t even feel like work when you build with 1/2” 🙂
There's a saying in engineering. Anyone can build a bridge that'll stand. But it takes an engineer to build a bridge that will barely stand. I think the 1/2" plywood builds fall into that same category. I, too, recently found out (just because of the cost) that 1/2" plywood is pretty damn strong and useful. And if worse comes worse, you can glue it up and get a 1" material (well, 1/16th short of 1")
Well said.
Miss Kim - what's the cardboard trick, plz?
@@bethanyanderson1745 Oh, things slide along cardboard more easily, so if you have carpet, or even on hardwood or stone, you can put cardboard under the legs, even bring it up around the legs and tape it on if you need to, and the furniture/heavy thing usually slides more easily, or if you have a big enough sheet of it, you can tug the sheet of cardboard itself, and if I were outside on a sort of rocky/uneven surface, I would put a few layers down and slide things along, some to cover the ground, some under the feet of the object itself. They sell those plastic “magic sliders” to go under the feet of furniture but cardboard is usually enough.
Sometimes I also “walk” the item, tipping and twisting it from leg to leg or side to side as I go along, or flipping it end over end, protecting the object itself of course. with an uneven surface, you just want a way to make it more even so things don’t stick and get stuck and be hard to move, so cardboard or a sheet of wood or a combination of both can help get things past rough ground.
I do a lot of work alone, so you have to get creative sometimes when moving heavy things, and think in terms of evening out the rough or uneven surfaces, making them smooth and slippery, without slipping yourself of course, and in terms of leverage. I don’t know how many kids still use a seesaw or a teeter totter, depending on what part of the country you’re from, but it’s a good way for them to learn how to lift heavy things more easily.
Then of course another method on smooth surfaces is a few round wooden rods, like closet rod. If you can get the item up under the rod and get another one under the other end, and have a couple more, you can create “rollers“. Then as you move the item forward, you take the back one and put it towards the front so it has something to move onto, and you just keep rolling it forward along the rods, they become “wheels”. If it’s not super heavy, PVC pipe works as well. If it’s a fairly straight line you are going in, this method works pretty well.
Then of course there are the “forearm forklifts”, and they work pretty well, managed to make use of them on my own, they are designed for two people to use together. Just always bend and lift at the knees, and your L4/L5 well thank you, that’s the part of the spine that goes first when people abuse their backs and lift improperly.
There’s a reason why at the gym, weight lifters do a loud “whoo-uff!” kind iof grunt when they exhale just as they lift something heavy. They’re exhaling forcefully, and it’s tightening all the muscles around their spine to protect it, they’re not just doing it to sound cool (well, maybe some of them are doing it just to sound cool and they don’t even though they’re protecting their back).
You just don’t want to continue to hold your breath, though. You want to hold all those muscles where they are when you make that sound, you want to keep your abs tight, because that helps protect your back, but you don’t want to hold your breath, and that can take people some practice to hold their abs tight but not hold their breath, but eventually they can keep them as separate actions. Holding your breath under exertion can cause a stroke and other damage to your cardiovascular system.
You don’t want to deprive your body of oxygen when it’s doing heavy lifting...Especially when you’re lifting overhead, it’s a huge no-no to hold your breath, and a lot of people do it. They can pass out and drop that heavy thing on their head, or on their body as they hit the ground, or give themselves a stroke or heart attack in the process as well. So, hold your abs and glutes tight, and keep on breathing. That protects your back, but if you can’t do both, then just breathe, because breathing is always more important. Always.
Extra into, I know, but it seems to go with the whole thing.
Switch about 15 years ago. Had a project in a small area. Looked great and the project just worked. Like you, now, I use what makes since for the project. More often than not, !/2"
I have been SOOOO tempted to start picking up 1/2” instead of 3/4” for a couple years now, but then I always end up telling myself, “Part of the reason you started DIY’ing all your own stuff is too ensure that the quality and longevity is there, if you switch to 1/2” you might as well just go out and buy a cheap version of whatever it is your building and save yourself a ton of hassle” so I end up buying 3/4” everytime anyway. Having seen this though, I think it’s time to give it a try in certain areas. However, just like a lot of the other folks commenting have mentioned, I just really don’t think that it’s a universal use case scenario because there are quite a few situations where 3/4” still seems like it’s the way to go. Mainly any situation that calls for removing material thickness across the length of the board (rebates, dados, etc.) Anyway, thanks for the assurance and confirmation. Always good stuff on this channel ;)
I just finished building a double sink vanity and single sink vanity entirely out of 3/4". I felt it was needed because of the weight of the vanity tops/sinks/water. Moving on to the kitchen cabinets now I'll be using 1/2" for vertical surfaces and 3/4" for horizontal with the exception being the sink cabinet and island will all be made with 3/4".
3/4 is just way too heavy, 1/2 inch just about cut the weight in half and it's still strong, as long as it's not particle board you'll be ok
I opted for 3/4" for kitchen cabinets because it was only $8 more a sheet than the 1/2" and I could more easily use pocket holes
Use the proper depth setting on your Keeg jig for 1/2 applications. $8 adds up quick, and the price of lumber will not coming down anytime soon.
@MrSheeDo
Thank you for chiming in! I’m a girl with no building experience, relying on YT and the guys at my local hardware store for guidance. I’m going to be making a
26” d x 60” w butt joint, double deck (open to the front-no drawers) desk held together with glue and pocket screws. Maybe also brads (although the gun is a bit intimidating). The desk top will be standing on iron hairpin legs. I think I want 3/4” plywood. Also, I like the look of the striated edge, and 1/2” ply wouldn’t give me enough edge. I’m eager to try my hand at using a pocket jig.
@@meridelmoss1802 if, and I express "if" you can find Baltic birch, go for that. But it's hard to find, but if you're looking for that edge you like Baltic birch sheets will provide that
Meriden, be very careful about getting advice from people at homedepot.
@@patrickkimberlin3209
Thank you for the recommendation. I think Baltic is very pretty. If in short supply, I’ll wait. Better to hang out at the kitchen counter than rush and end up with unlovely results.
I was saying this 35 years ago when most cabinets were built with 3/4 inch in millwork shops.
I use 1/2in ply for loads of applications and if I want thicker, I glue 1/2in sheets together. That way you can get custom sizes of 3/4in (finished thickness) without having to lug those big heavy 3/4in sheets around.
I agree that 1/2 plywood can be used in many situations around the shop and for smaller projects, but I'm not sure about cabinetry. Face frames are often sized based on the thickness of the upright and the requirements of the hinges. If you use thinner material for the carcass, you'll have to reduce the thickness of your face frames to match. This will affect the end result and the look of the project. Also, any joinery that uses rabbits (rebates) or dadoes (groves/housings) will be significantly weakened. Horizontal spans use 3/4 plywood for a good reason when the span is long enough that deflection is a concern.
Don't even try to use pocket screws with 1/2 plywood! The strength of pocket screw joinery relies heavily on the amount of material between the angled hole and the edge of the board. The thinner the board, the smaller this distance will be and you'll have to use shorter screws. Drilling 3/8" diameter holes in 1/2" plywood leaves about 1/16th" on each side. This would significantly reduce the strength of these joints. Again, it depends on what you're building but for an extra $10...
I'd also like to point out that, as a beginner, much of what you learn is based on standard dimensions and thicknesses. 3/4 for shelves, uprights, stretchers and nailers... 1/2 for drawer boxes... 1/4 for drawer bottoms and backing. 2" wide face frames when two carcasses meet. 1" (aka 3/4") hardwood for drawer fronts and face frames. Same goes for rails and styles of panel doors. If you use 1/2" plywood instead of 3/4", you'll get tripped up on some important dimensions unless you're really careful.
I'm sorry but I don't follow your logic that if we use thinner material for the carcass that causes us to use a reduced thickness of the face frame? There's no reason you can't make the carcass out of 1/2 and still use 3/4 face frames. Also, you need to define, significantly weakened. A dado in 3/4 is 3/8 deep. A dado in 1/2 is 1/4 deep. I don't buy that the 1/8 difference in depth of the dado is "significantly weaker" The dado in a carcass is supporting a cross member or back panel. That cross member isn't going to fall out of the dado or collapse. The back panel isn't going to break out of the frame either.
You've built your argument against 1/2" on unsupported conjecture.
@@jesseporter-qb2vc Sorry. I should have said 'width of the face frame' and not 'thickness'. 1/2" x 2 = 1" thick cabinet wall when two cabinets are attached side by side.... normally this is 3/4" x 2 = 1.5" which we then cover with a 2" wide frame that overhangs each edge 1/4" into the space of the cabinet. If you put a 2" wide frame over top of the joint where the two 1/2" walls meet, you'll have a 1/2" overhang on each side. Drawer slides and hinges are often made to fit a 1/4" overhang so 1/2" will need padding. Not the end of the world, I suppose, but something that needs to be considered.
You're probably right about the dadoes.
Considering recent prices, this video installment is truly looking on the bright side! Thank you!
If you go to Baltic Birch ply, anything you’re typically using 3/4 standard or premium lumber yard ply, can be reduced to 3/8.
I’ve been building cabinets for 18 years and in Baltic birch, every vertical panel can be 3/8 and out perform any particle board or MDF. I’ll go to 1/2 or maximum 5/8 for shelves and bottoms for extra wide spans.
You are awesome at making this easier for some of us that are not experienced, except for wood shop in high school, 50 years ago. Thanks for keeping it simple.
I just made a bunch of 30”x30” using 5/8” plywood instead of 3/4 or 1/2 inch. Since they are used in my wood shop, I didn’t require hardwood veneers, and to increase utility, each 30x30 has a 30x12 cubby with no doors. I got BCX plywood and made sure the exposed walls were B grade. So happy with my cabinets and even more happy with the open cubbies!
I used 1/2 inch plywood for a 55 gallon aquarium stand. Everyone around here said it could not hold the over 500 pounds, but I used two narrow shelves on each side 1 foot wide and the center was set up for a sump tank. 1/2 inch is amazing strong as you stated.
Most definitely my friend. Thanks for sharing your experiences. 😊🌎✨
Timely video for me. I made a bathroom vanity using 3/4" maple plywood, but I did use 1/2" maple plywood for the drawers. I went to Menards to buy Kreg pocket screws for 1/2" material and a Menard's department head ask if I found what I wanted and asked about my project. I said I was making vanity drawers from 1/2" maple plywood and he said I should make them from 3/4". He is an older gentleman (my age maybe). I said I usually use 1/2" for drawers and love the results. But after seeing this video, I plan to look into the 1/2" plywood for the next vanity I need to build for a 2nd bathroom. Thanks for this nice video.
I can't help it, I want to overbuild. My night stand should be able to support the weight of a car. I want my stuff to last as long as ancient Roman roads and bridges. Maybe I should switch to 4" stones instead of wood...
You notice you don’t find antiques woodwork cabinetry or furniture made out of 1/2” materials! Majority of furniture/cabinetry made today won’t ever last long enough to be considered a antique in the future!
@@ghostridergale Some of the finest antique furniture in the world is made out of incredibly intricate and small pieces of wood.
@@thopkins2271 yeah, like hickory. Don't see too many antiques rocking pine half inch plyboard... Unless it's all bent up.
@@PhilPic01 That’s the kicker.
@@thopkins2271 yes and because they were expensive from the get go, people treated them better because of it.
I've been looking into building a french cleat system in my shop and watching lots of videos about that to get ideas. I'm inclined to use 3/4 for the cleats themselves, but I've been surprised at how many people use 3/4 for all of the little bins and fixtures they mount on their cleat wall. It's definitely not needed for strength and it wastes space on the wall because all the fixtures are bigger than they need to be. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
This is a very good point, Earl. I like 3/4” for the cleat (have used it before on this channel and will use it again), but building small fixtures with 3/4” is just cumbersome. 1/2” looks much more appropriate for small storage.
@@TheHonestCarpenter I have always used 1X pine or fir for French cleats. It cuts smoother than plywood and doesn't"t chip out: there are no voids. Plus it's just as strong (or stronger) than an engineered product like plywood. The cleats are never seen, so dimensional lumber works for me.
I won't confirm, since I am (an eternal) beginner. But looking at the many woodworking videos I see on YT , this french cleat business seems to me often overkill : making holes in wall, all this wood used for taking care of stuff which could safely stay in a jam-jar easily, (think to the planet, my god!), and who wants to move one's tools from one place to the other all the time... My two cents. (And I am French ! :))
@@etiloyon3681, I agree that it is easy to go overboard with shop fixtures and furnishings, but as another eternal beginner, I consider making them practice for my "real" projects, and therefore time well spent. Also, about 20 years ago I moved into a new house and soon put up large peg-board sheets on one wall of my garage shop to store all my tools. Over the years as I got new tools, I had to spend time reorganizing as I got new tools that I wanted to keep near related ones. French cleats would have made that much easier. Finally, about two years ago I moved to a new house. If I had made a french cleat wall 20 years ago, it would have been easier to quickly put new cleats up on a wall here, and then put up all my existing fixtures. But now I have to essentially start over with organizing my new shop.
@@earlmorton1216 Ah, yes, it's true. Many people buy tool for building gears for putting tool. And they use a lot of composite wood like platted wood, MDF, and so forth. Here in France I just bought a board of chestnut board (2.5m x 0.20m x 0.02m and I understand them. €10 = $12 ! !Woodworking is turning into trendy hobby. Maybe I am wrong after all . The fact is I don't like to make holes in my walls and you have to admit French cleats don't help at this level. Good luck for your projects and thanks for your kind time.
Two big reasons Im sticking with 3/4 for most of my cabinetry: pocket holes and dados. I agree that 1/2 is great for small bits of shelving, but those usually get made with scraps of 3/4 thats laying around the shop.
I agree!!
I've been trying 1/2 on large upper cabinets for the backs. Large being in the range of 44 high x 48 wide. I have found that pocket screws will do well going through the 1/2 into 3/4, so mixed thicknesses to do this. Check jig settings and screw lengths before going live though.
I'm using pocket holes on 1/2 right now.
I'm new to this and $49 looked like a deal.
I'm not going to regret this am I?
@@T1Oracle did you? or did it work? :)
Pocket holes work in 1/2 inch plywood. Not sure about hinges
So great! I finished a project in my "Krude Karpentry" at our cottage using 1/2" ply. Reason was simply price at first, then I noticed exactly the same things, light weight, easy to operate and cut etc. The end product, sizeable wood framed doors for an outdoor shed, become manageable and easier to assemble to an existing structure.
I am so happy I watched your video, again.
The Honest Carpenter:"remember use less thick wood"
IKEA: "Hold my beer"
Sorry it i should be...
IKEA: Hold my lingonberry sauce
Honest Carpenter: ---> WOOD
IKEA: ---> PAPER
@@johnhill8958 compressed fiber junk furnature XD
Good video. Solid thinking.
I always keep in mind that 2x8 joists 16" apart, I think 8' span (might only be 6') with 5/8" or is it 3/4" plywood can easily support 2000 pounds per square foot. You can drive a car over it. Even my 4400 pound Tesla. So if you need to do anything less - like fit out a van? You would never ever need 3/4" plywood for anything.
On the other end of the engineering scale are honeycomb reinforced sheets used for floors in jet air liners. This stuff is basically a honey comb pattern maybe 1/2" deep with 1/16th inch (maybe thinner) sheets of aluminum epoxied to each side. Hundreds of pounds will deflect it less than 1/8" (ever walked on an airplane and thought, 'this floor is springy'? Me neither. Too many RUclipsrs are inexperienced and grossly overbuilding their projects.
I like using the cheaper 1/2" luan plywood from Home Depot. It's super light weight. I made a bunk (platform) for the back of my Prius. Just over 6' long, It's supported (across) about a foot from each end, so it's got a center span about 4' To stiffen it, 2" in from one side and 3" in from the other side I glued 1" strips of the plywood. (Glued it, then screwed it - as clamps. When the glue dried removed the screws). Works great for four years now. Even after I busted out a 6" gap in one of the rails it still works. And it's very light so easy to move in and out.
I've made large drawers 29 x 29" using finger jointed baltic birch ply. Made at least 30 of them. Use them in cabinets (flat files for art) and in my shop. Never ever had a problem with any of them. (Not sure what the bottoms are. It's been 20+ years). I also made book shelf open boxes hung on French cleats - hundreds of pounds of books - no flex, no problems.
The 1/2 inch steps - the only real problem with 1/2" is supporting it where the weight is applied and chipping off the edges. And your closet shelves - the only problem is supporting the front edge - which you solve.
The ply in your truck bed. Another reason to go with the thicker ply is as it gets damaged and worn it will hold up over time better than the half inch because it has more layers to tear through so it'll take much much longer to start busting through.
Another thing. I made a teacher cart. I didn't have a classroom so had to move every period. So I made a cabinet on wheels that I could pop open (or lock) he lid and set my laptop on. At the bottom I had a laser printer, two drawers... wheels, push handle. 1/4" plywood. As soon as I finished the first one I knew how to make it better. So a few months later I made a second one...and as soon as I finished it I knew how to make an even better third one. But I never got around to it. BTW this is also the best way to have fun. The design it, build it, it's done - is boring and ultimately half-assed. What engineers do is keep making something lighter and lighter until it breaks and then back up a step. This argues for lighter cheaper materials. Plywood also has two properties: strength and coverage. For kitchen cabinets the primary consideration is coverage - spanning space. Strength can then be added. Rails, good corner attachment.... But then that's more parts. So 3/4 or 1/2 and good corner attachment, maybe a simple rail to support shelves.... The point then gets three aspects: coverage, strength and complexity. That's what we're working with when we build boxes and shelves. (It's why hollow core doors are 1/8" ply with cardboard in the middle. It's nicer to be heavier, but not needed.) Hope this is interesting.
Very useful tip!! I would probably add that plywood does not have the same stiffness in both directions. it is a good practice to align the outermost layers' grain direction with the span if the length allows it.
I learned about 1/2 being strong enough from John Heisz videos.
That’s a very good point, Alipasha!
I have noticed that many use thick plywood for just about everything. I have been using 1/2" material for a long time and had no issues with it. Sometimes I do use 3/4" material when necessary, but 1/2" had been my go to for years. And the small pieces are great for small projects, especially for shop projects I'm using myself. I even used 3/8" material for some projects.
I agree with your assessment of 1/2" ply, but there are some cabiots to this thinking: not all 1/2" plywood is created equal, and some plywood is really unstable, which makes the lessor thickness a bigger liability so buyer beware! Just about anything I have bought at the big box store has warped severely if not sealed within the first couple of months.
In my town there is a peddler's mall that has a large booth with "wood" odds and ends. They have LOTS of 1/2" plywood in 2'x8' size for $9! A couple of them even had natural unfinished walnut on one side.
I'm building some kitchen cabinets to expand our kitchen in our relatively small house. Nothing is over 24" deep. With the price of lumber these days, I bought a bunch. Thanks to your video, I'm no longer concerned about strength. Thank you!🙂
I have 25 acres of woods here (rural Kentucky) with a lot of oak, poplar and walnut. I might use some of the poplar (they call them Tulip trees here) for the fronts.
3/8" inch ply is very handy too. It all depends on what reinforcements you use and where they're placed. I once built a floor-to-ceiling storage in a corner. I used 3/8 for the vertical parts because the shelves true out the wood and the load vertically wasn't affected at all.
And no strength will be the result. You get what you pay for.
@@dlvmil-spec Depends on the application. If it's not load baring, it won't make sense.
I learned all this a few months ago. The nearby store was out of 3/4 and I didn't have time for the store to restock. It was a decorative piece, so we used 1/2 inch and it was plenty strong and much lighter. I never really went back to 3/4. You just don't need it in most applications. 5/8 ply is also a good option when you need need to save a little but need something big and structural. A client of mine bought 5/8 ply instead of 3/4 and we used a few sheets to build some closets. They're holding up just fine. In my area you can get 1/2 inch ply for 70% of the price of 3/4, probably because people don't use it as much (and it's always in stock to boot). Even hardwood veneered 1/2 inch ply is really cheap!
2024 and sheet lumber costs are still out of control
Let us all appreciate that this 5 minute video was not stretched to 10 for the ads. Excellent video, thanks.
When you do followup videos where you use 1/2" material, I'd love to see more about how you manage the joinery, including situations where thicker material is warranted. For example, when is 1/2" material appropriate for pocket screw joinery; attaching cleats, runners, or slides to the face the material; dados for partitioning a cabinet or box, etc.
You mean pocket screw "joinery"?
Yeah, I would be concerned with rabbets, dados for shelving, and half-lap joints. I think glue will help, but I think you would at least need 3/4 material for the uprights of a tall cabinet. But I have used 1/2" ply for simple square boxes with box joints on the corners and those have been extremely sturdy.
@@neonedge9 ...
I thought the video would go into reinforcement techniques when using the 1/2" ply at its limits, as opposed to just information that the 3/4" is just overkill in most applications.
I've done 36" tall cabinets with 1/2" but the walls were weak so instead of mdf backing, i used another piece of 1/2 ply for the back and pocket joined to the carcass to keep rigidity
TY HC. I priced 5/8” plywood at $48.xx to $58.xx a sheet. Need it for countertop substrate. I found 1/2” Sumauma plywood at Lowes for $31.xx a sheet and used a 1/4” filler. (Needed a total height of 1 1/4”)
I always felt this way but everyone pushes for 3/4. I think things look lighter and more elegant.
3/4 reminds me of the chunky stuff my dad made when I was a kid.
You don’t need your shelving unit to be bomb proof, but you do want it to last. 1/2 will do that for you. Build smart and it is plenty strong.
I want a bomb proof shelf.
Great message here! I liked this enough that I had to look up my password just to log in and throw in my two cents.
Having moved my share of insanely heavy DIY furniture pieces, I can appreciate a weight reduction. Cost is a plus too, but don't miss the message: don't default to 3/4" when something thinner will satisfy structural requirements. How thin? Well now, that is entering a whole new realm...
Ever heard of ultralight plywood boats? The hull is a shell of thin flexible plywood (4 and 6 millimeters!). The strength/stiffness comes from the edge and "joint" treatments, e.g. gunwale, keel, and chine. Take another look at some of the pieces he showed in the video: those face frames, wall cleats and tiny strips at the corners of intersecting panels (middle of the storage above that custom wardrobe at 3:12 and the center of the closet shelves at 3:34) are there to give them strength.
Now, at 4:16 he talks about avoiding large spans. But do you see that he could have put a cleat along the back edge of that unit to stiffen the shelf? It already is going to get the face frame, so it is a simple upgrade to add it. Want to go bigger? Add ribs, like the back of a guitar or piano soundboard!
Let me show my colors here: I've built an ultralight boat before. A rowing skiff out of 6 mm marine plywood and 14 feet long, if I recall correctly (30 years ago...). I think it was 90 pound total. I weighed 130 pounds in those days and could pick it up--though it was awkward! Anyway, when it came time to build some stuff at my home, what do you think I did?
Yup, 1/4" outdoor plywood that I used to be able to get at the lumber yard. What a trip. I was building stuff on my dining room floor, gluing 1x2 (nominal) battens to whole sheets and cutting up the middle of each batten to make my pieces with one "chine" already attached. Lets' see...a 6.5 foot tall pantry in the kitchen, about 22" wide and 30" deep with recycled cabinet doors (the only "thick" stuff on it other than the face frames). It is packed with cookbooks, appliances and food stuffs and hasn't fallen down. My daughter got a shallow bookcase almost as tall for all her collections. The edges look nearly 1" thick because all intersections and free edges (front edges) have a ~3/4" square strip glued to them. My other daughter got a 8 foot long, 16 inch deep "low shelf" unit that ran under a window. On top of that went about 4 foot wide bookcase about 12" deep that reached to the top of the window. The trick was put central support in the lower unit, i.e. vertical face frame and ribs under the top. I did have to rework that one--I didn't think about needing that rib to support a 12" deep unit on a 16" deep surface. An easy fix.
The only limit is really just the stability of your panel stock and your ingenuity. I was using 1/4" luan underlayment, but it was absolutely stable. I never saw a piece buckle or curl unless I left if leaning some where--and I could always glue it flat when making parts. The luan vernier could have been nicer, but is was better than what luan plywood used to be a few decades before!
I was going to build more but then my source switched to some trashy underlayment that would warp up and bubble just laying on the floor of an air conditioned house. I could have tracked down some of that nice birch plywood or even marine grade plywood, but those weren't $20 a sheet like the other stuff was. And life got busier.
I use a ton of 1/2 and thinner for many many things. 3/4 is awesome bulletproof stuff but just hauling and storing full sheets is such a pain. However, for certain things it pays dividends to go to 3/4 like longer span shelves, or wide/tall vertical cabinet or closet dividers and walls. It stays flat and warp free on it's own. Plenty of bite for screws that won't poke through the other side. Most stair treads for sure. Work tables: 2 layers of 3/4! 1/2 will sag and you will spend more time and money on more frequent shelf supports. Span strength across say 30-48" is vastly stiffer than 1/2, sorry. Also sorry but 1/2 looks kinda flimsy, with 3/4 you don't need to face it with solid pieces to strengthen or hide how thin it is. You can just put on a quick iron on edge veneer and it looks solid because it is solid.
your the first woodworker we watch that explains the importance of 1/2.as a newbie we always consider the price of wood. now we can make projects less expensive.
The drawers for all my kitchen cabinets I made with 1/2" Baltic Birch ply. When you use a much better plywood than you find in the usual stores it works much better in every way.
No voids, no knots, much tighter.
Good video.
I've been a carpenter in the construction maintenance field for 40 years now.
My current job though I work for a public school system so everything has to be out of 3/4" wood.
But yes half inch is suitable for residential and mid-range cabinetry.
To give you an idea how strong half inch plywood is or even quarter inch.
But when we build houses out of 2x4 lumber which is now 1 1/2"×3 1/2" now.
(And there's a reason for that and there's a reason why almost all stock lumber is 3/4" in I'll explain that in a minute)
But when we have an open such as a doorway or a window we take two by sixes and turn them upright onto the jack studs and in the center we here and fasten between the two 2x6s 1/2-in sheet of with this method you could hoist engines out with it by throwing a chain over that's how strong that plywood can be.But Going 24 in on a span with 1/2-in plywood alone is pushing it if you put too much weight on it without a faceplate or a center stil as they are called.(Spelling)
But even on 3/4 inch plywood whenever I build shelving cabinets of any kind I always put a face on there if not inch and a half wide no less thickness than of the board but not only do I mechanically fasten it I also use wood glue The wood will be stronger than any fastener or stronger than wood itself once it's set.
Back in the day when they said a 2x4 it actually measured 2 in by 4 in.
Same with all lumber 1 in actually meant one inch not only in lumber but also in gypsum board in every other building material of the day.
Overtime they just have reduced this back and still call it the same product but charge you more for less and that is in everything that we use as consumers today.
And of course it's 2024 and prices are still outrageous.
Good video!
Glad to see young people still enjoying wood work with their hands!
We built our entire bus interior out of 12mm plywood which is very similar in size to 1/2” with 42x19mm timber for framing. Worked great and saved us heaps of weight. Only issue is that the widely used euro style hinges in cabinets are too big so we had to use different style hinges.
Hi John,
We’re building out a van and using 1/2” ply for our cabinet doors. What hinges did you end up going with? We just realized you have to drill a 1/2” hole to install cabinet door hinges and are not quite sure how to proceed.
Good things,
Nat
“Doesn’t tear up shoulders and wrists” that’s a pro comment. So important over time
Thanks for this video. I have never questioned using 3/4. Always assumed 1/2 was too weak.
This info is SO in time!!! Thanks! I'm about to dig into huge all furniture project (starting with kitchen build) for my 1st client and was looking for ways to cheap it down in materials costs. You're right, wood prices are going crazy these days here in Russia as well! I definetely happy I came across your channel! You got me. I subscribe!
I’ve been a cabinet maker for over 45 years and worked for cabinet shops that used 1/2” plywood in their cabinets and for shops that used 3/4” plywood. I can tell you for a fact that1/2” isn’t near as strong as 3/4” and 1/2” also tends to bend or warp a whole lot easier too! If your using 1/2” plywood for shelving. Especially if it’s adjustable shelving you have to keep your shelves much shorter then you do with 3/4” plywood. You will not find a high end cabinet shop using 1/2” plywood for their cabinets and there’s good reasons for that! Only thing I use 1/2” Baltic birch for is for drawer sides and that’s about it! With that being said though, the more plus in 1/2 or 3/4 the stronger and more stable it will be! Keep a wye eye on how many plays are in the material your buying? Also watch out for import versus domestic materials, being imported materials are not anywhere near as good as domestic materials. For example the veneer on imported plywood is usually so thin you can literally see the glue that holds the veneer on the plywood. It comes presanded and if you attempt to sand it yourself your very likely to sand thru the veneer. Where domestic plywood has veneer much closer to a 1/16” thick and usually enough veneer that you can even refinish the plywood later in years when you want to restain your cabinets a different color. Imported plywood about all you can do to change it is to paint over it! Good materials certainly cost a lot more, but if you want a quality long lasting cabinets you’ll be glad you spent the extra money in the long run! Long story short, I don’t care how great of a woodworker you are? You can’t build quality cabinets out of cheap materials! In the beginning the cheap stuff may look just as nice as the expensive stuff. But just wait 5-10 years down the line if that and then you’ll see the difference for yourself and be spending more money replacing those cheap materials you bought for cabinets first time around! Only thing worse then 1/2” if using particle board or chipboard and that includes the white vinyl plastic veneer that’s also has a chipboard core! Many people fall for the look of the white vinyl inside the cabinets thinking it looks so easy to keep clean. But that vinyl shrinks over time and scratches very easily and eventually you’ll see at least some of that chipboard/particleboard core and not much you can do to fix the problem but replace your cabinets! Oh and if your chipboard/particleboard gets wet if literally falls apart in flakes
5/8" (15mm) Baltic birch is where it's at.
Yep, 5/8 for the win.
@@larryroyovitz7829 Just checked Lowe's, 5/8 CDX is $80 bucks. I'm seriously considering ordering a container of CDX from China!
@@quiteactually wow
I was just gonna say the same thing! And it hasn't increased in price at all since last year - bonus!
You haven't lived until you've tried 11/16" Amboyna Burl from the Andaman Islands
I switched like this by accident about 2 years ago and thought I'd try it and it worked out. Where I really needed the strength I doubled the material to total 1 inch over that small area still keeping my total cost way down. I'm already planning my next project with 1/2 " plywood.
I built my entire pantry walls out of 1/2" ply b/c it's so freakin expensive to get 3/4". I actually was regretting it and having second thoughts on my way home until i finished the project, it's plenty strong and works great! No regrets here! Just comes down to application of course.
He makes a good point that 1/2 has advantages over 3/4 - no question - but it's important to apply thoughtful design and intelligence to your work. At 4:22 he mentions bending strength and suggests there is " not much " difference between the two. This misleading : bending strength is proportional to the thickness CUBED. So 3/4 material will be 3-375 times stronger than 1/2 inch that is ( 3/4*2/1 )^3 = 1.5^3 = 3.375.
Thanks for this video, something I never thought about. In class we just use 3/4" sheet goods and as a hobbyist I just assumed it was what you did and never gave 1/2" a thought.
I already build a big ass cabinet for a kitchen, all of ¾ plywood. Six ft tall and 3 ft wide and 14 inch deep. When I ended the assembly, shit got damn heavy and strong. I didn't expect that, but hell, if you kick that thing, you're gonna break your leg. Also, it makes me so proud and happy everytime I see it.
Loved that you mentioned a project for the Navratri festival. Really love you being inclusive without making a big deal about it.
Jaya Ma!
This literally came up the day after I ordered a load of OSB boards to create shelves in my roof trusses. I’m in the UK so had the options of 18mm or 11mm which I’m guessing are comparable. I was brave and went for the 11mm. Started working with it last night after watching this video. So much easier to work and it’s definitely strong enough. Thanks for putting my mind at ease- I made the right choice!
Kreg also makes a pocket hole jig for 1/2" plywood, great for making drawers.
Kreg Jig isn't great for anything
I built kitchen utensil drawers out of 1/2 inch sides and 1/4 inch bottoms. Plenty strong.
Now for pots and pans drawers that could potentially hold 50-75lbs of pots and pans, I’m thinking still 1/2 inch sides but using 1/2 inch bottom, especially with a width of 23 inches.
Will be using 1/4 1/4 1/4 method to build the drawer boxes.
Thanks for this video, Ethan. I hope it finally convinces my wife (who is also a woodworker) that half-inch plywood is just fine for most of her projects. I’ve been trying to convince her for over a year. 😉
Never too late to make the change, J.D. 😆
I've been using 1/2 inch on all my projects. Never had a problem with strength . Much more versatile than 3/4. Nice video. Totally agree.
I made my first workshop table bench and shelving with 12mm plywood (I'm in Australia so it's the equivalent). It's plenty strong. I put 60-70kg of weights to test its strength over 2 days and it was rock solid.
Thank you, as a fellow Aussie, that's the detail I was looking for lol - planning a hobby table.
@@MLaak86 no worries. I currently holding all my extra timber purchases, tools and it's not budging one bit. Definitely strong as long as you brace it evenly.
@@jiminy2731 Planning out a table for miniature modelling work (3D printing, constructing, airbrushing and hand painting) so pry don't need something super heavy duty but still able to hold some weight
@@MLaak86 nice! At least you're confident nothing will collapse and can take a beating!
@@jiminy2731 yep if yours can support lots of weight then one that’ll have maybe 20kgs on it max should be more than served by 12mm
1/2 can definitely be substituted for 3/4 in many applications but, you can screw or nail into 3/4, where with the 1/2 is not a good idea, unless it’s a pin or a brad.
yes, pre drilling is required with the 3/4, but the 1/2” will get destroyed, unless it’s sitting in a dado with plenty of glue, and in that case nails are not required.
Don't overlook 1/4" ply either. It's plenty to act as a skin over a skeleton to prevent racking if designed that way with its limitations in mind.
Heck, even 1/8" is enough on the back of a bookcase to prevent racking. my bookcases from Target from 15 years ago had thin fiberboard, and that's even been enough through all of these years.
It's my go to for drawer bottoms as well. Tough enough not to bend and pull out like 1/8 hardboard that ikea uses.
@@necrojoe IKEA used 1/8" fiberboard pretty much exclusively for rigidity.
@@necrojoe Umm... yeah. Except the crap 'nails' they used, pull out when you breathe on 'em. Screw it!
Yep! 1/4" backs in a rabbet, glued and nailed, are incredibly strong. Same principle, but but much better than the cardboard used in most knock down furniture.
I’m newer to carpentry, and found this information to be great. Been using 3/4” for dang near everything without giving 1/2” a thought. Thank you
I was in Home Depot today. There were 3 people that fainted in the
lumber supply department. The wood prices are really jacked up.
Sure it was the prices? Or did someone finally find a straight piece of something? lmfao. I'm sure I'd faint if I found anything at hd that resembled straight.
As a professional carpenter /cabinet maker, what I do most of the time is supplement 1//2" birch ply cross members with 3/4" side walls, you'll find that a 1/2" dado in a 3/4" side wall, makes for a very strong joint, when im spanning more than 36" with 1/2" shelves, i'll use a piece of 1x as a strongback under the shelf , then put the nosing on covering the entire edge.
Sure, except 1/2 inch plywood isn't actually half an inch any more. so now I'm buying 5/8 inch, so that actual size is at least 1/2 inch.
I've used all thicknesses of plywood for various jobs. I always go as thin as possible while keeping safety, like 1/4" for drawer bottoms, linen closet shelves, paneling a room that already has 1/2" or better drywall for the "real wood look". dresser/cabinet backing (assuming the rest of the frame is solidly built.
I used to make everything with 1/2" - even desktops (although admittedly I wouldn't necessarily do that again). It's certainly strong enough for relatively small surfaces. I've also used it within dimensional lumber frames to create custom interior doors. I've even made custom closet doors entirely from 1/2" ply.
why wouldn't you use it again for desktops??, i want to build one for my computer set up and i was hopping to make it arround 4 inches thick and i am considering unsing 1/2" on top and botom sheet and 3/4 for all supports in between, should i consider changing the top sheet?
Hell, I got two pieces of furniture (kinda look like double door pie chests with solid doors) from my neighbor that have the sides, back and doors made from 1/4 ply, the shelves 3/8 and the top 1/2 ply. These were used for his books and he built them himself 60 years back. They are still in good shape!
I’m not a Carpenter but and then ounce of common sense goes a long way. I was thinking this exact same thing a month ago with some projects that I have to do.
My friend,you are so right.3/4 inch plywood is complete overkill. I've been building some kitchen units
out of 3/4 inch ply, totally unnecessary,they are built like a tank,so heavy, so cumbersome.
1/2 inch or 5/8 is the way to go. Much easier to work and saw. Great video.
I think my problem with 1/2” as a carcass material is that it often will not accept hardware lengths.
I have done some woodworks in the past but this woodwork plan ruclips.net/user/postUgkxZF0EMnrujZvqHhGkxiz559uIABJWR9TG helps me do much in a far lesser time than i used to do i have already built several projects with this plan and i intend to do many more soon. Thank you so much!
100% agree! One thing you didn't cover is that not all plywood is created equal. If I'm doing cabinets I want Baltic birch plywood. That raises the price but the product is far better. It's got no voids, it's flat (!) and the edges look far better than inferior plywood. I've actually seen table tops rounded over, sanded smooth, and finished in Baltic birch that looked beautiful. I get shop grade for shop projects, and you can even get pre-finished furniture grade for cabinetry, etc. If something is going to get rough use I'll get the big box stuff but that stuff isn't flat and I hate it.
3/4 for confirmat screws and it makes nice cleats. Like everything else, it has it's place, we just got spoiled with cheap imports.
Ethan, good points. One key technique for brad nail blowout is to turn your nail gun perpendicular to the edge of the surface you are nailing along. This make the nail contort along the workpieces width, not its thickness...which produces blowout.
I built from solid pine drawer boxes from true 1/4" thick material for my drill press cabinet, and glued/brad nailed it all. No issues.
Thank you, i have been trying to get answers why 3/4" verses 1/2" plywood and i found nothing to answer my question. I was beginning to think 1/2" plywood in woodworking was voodoo and therefore i avoided it. My pocket thanks you, my wife thanks you, and oh yes my dog thanks you.
I’ve used a single sheet of 3’x8’ 1/2” oriented strand board (osb) on my work bench for over 15 years and it has worked great.
So, good advice. Would you do a follow up video on any changes in joinery technique that you use to help the 1/2 inch plywood out. Things like pocket hole changes, loose tenon, the use of screws and glue etc. Do you ever combine 1/2 inch plywood with MDF or particle board/Melamine? I would think that once out of the 3/4 rut, the possibilities are much greater. However with that complexity comes increased design considerations. Thanks and Stay Safe.
I like your point. 3/4" OSB is used for floors, and 1/2" OSB is used for walls. Makes sense that if you aren't anticipating climbing up onto the project, 1/2" will probably do. Not to mention that plywood is much stronger than OSB in my examples, so standing on 1/2" might be a maybe...
This is so timely. I am about to build a 6' wide floor to ceiling storage cabinet in our laundry room. Thanks for the assurance that 1/2" is going to be fine!
I just had copper foil plumbing pipes installed that are 98% lighter then that old overweight standard copper pluming which results in better gas mileage per mile.
Next we're getting lightweight electrical wiring that's said to reduce electrical consumption 97% by reducing the flow of electric current by 97% it's truly ingenious what they've come up with... I'm so stoked about it all.
Thanks for another great video, I fully support using 1/2" ply over 3/4", together with your advice to use face frames, centre supports on spans longer than 24" and cleats, makes the whole project easier including measuring, and no doubt on cost saving. I must also commend you on your pronunciation of Navrathri, awesome! Stay safe and well.
Thank you for watching, Sundra! I’ve had many great clients over the years who celebrate Navrathri 😄
@@pachinkotronkfollo1075 I like using maranti, better than using pine because it is easier to finish, although you can use pine if you want to paint it.