This legitimately demystified the bow purchasing process... people are mostly basing their feel on their bias and whatever they hear from a shop / reviews. Very interesting experiment that should be explored more
Mmmmm, I don't think so. I've owned many manufacturers flagship bows and there are very distinct differences when you're actually shooting a bow rather just shooting for feel with a glove on.
@blackbeard0323 I would be willing to put a Benjamin on it, that you could toss the glove and wear the blindfold and do no better. People buy what they want to buy for many reasons other than the product itself. Otherwise, some of these companies wouldn't break the bank on marketing.
Not a waste of time awesome information as always you guys. Very awesome to see how close they all feel when taking bias out of it. Thanks again MFJJ and Bow disciples you guys are making a difference.
This is an incredible piece of experimentation, it really goes to show how much advertising, reviews and preconceptual bias to a manufacturer can play a huge part in how you perceive a bow. Very interesting.
If you could buy a universal grip and put on each bow so you could feel vibration but wouldn't be able to tell what bow it was due to a specific grip design then that would be interesting. Like if you could slap the ultraview grip on every bow then you could test vibration and draw cycle without giving away what bow it is right off the bat
Very nice, a blind MSA study of sorts. One guy from Louisiana has an archery channel and he graphs/records the draw cycles on a computer program. Good stuff!
Great content as always. You do a great job of eliminating bias in your videos anyway but this really shows how much preconceived notions everyone has. Keep it up. Enjoy learning from what you do!!
I very much like this kind of test! I think doing a letdown on each bow and then shooting can separate the bows more. I also agree with someone's previous comment about shooting at a target wall as well.
This is EXCELLENT. I want to go to my local shop and try this as the shooter. I haven’t shot any of the flagship bows in the past couple of years. I think it would be great. They’d go for it to this time of year not being very busy if I was planning to buy one.
One of the best and funniest vid you make Its unbelieve how hard is to feel a bow when the grip is gone And how similar are all bows nowadays A really nice test👍👍
Would really enjoy you getting an obsession bow in and testing it they don’t have the spotlight that other companies do but with kevin strothers being with them there bows are amazing. Super smooth and super fast
Very interesting video. Does a great job of eliminating bias based on brand by the draw cycle & shot. The only downside is when selecting a bow the grip & vibration can be important but the grip can give it away. Rather than a glove I wonder how it would go if you removed the grips & used tape or a wrap instead.
I think next time while doing this test, you should hook the the release to the string first. Then hand the release to the bow to the shooter, release hand before bow hand. Love the content as always.
I like the thought of doing all the bows till you're left with one. You could do the test like an eye doctor. Shoot 2 bows and keep the better of the 2 until your left with the best feeling bow.
100% agree on the bow elimination video, that would be cool. Is there a universal type grip that could be mocked up for them all so that you could hold with a bare hand and feel vibrations as well?
I think you need to do this with the bows set up but make sure you use the sight mounts the bows are made to use so a Pic mount or bridgelock and see if it changed the feel of the bow
Its interesting, confirms they all build nice bows and it comes down to brand bias as well as what the shooter likes. I would be interested to see him shoot like 5 years of flagships from each manufacturer together in a similar manner. I dont think you could tell a difference. Bow industry does a great job at marketing and making you want the latest and greatest.
Another surprising factor is the weight. The carbon bows weren't distinguishable based on this. Granted, I dont know what those bows weigh compared to the aluminum risers but based on the material and the purpose of a carbon bow, I would only assume that they SHOULD be lighter...
I'd like to see this done for a newer shooter/buyer. Like here's a lineup, at x price point, blindfolded but no glove so they can feel what the risers doing... Elimination style, when you're done this is more or less the bow you like.
Would it be possible to have the same handle on all bows, so that the glove isn't necessary. That way it would perhaps be possible to get a better feel of the vibration on the different bows. Also I like the idea of doing this at a target wall to eliminate the time between drawing and aiming. In any case, thanks for doing this. Very valuable indeed. Keep it up guys!
This shows that there are no real bad choices. One thing that would be interesting would be a group test at like 50 yards. Get everyone to try so you have a few different shooters. 3 shots isn’t really enough though unless you’re using a hooter shooter
So choose your ATA (if you need a specific ATA), then do this blindfolded glove test with a selection of bows...then find out if the grip on your top pick feels good i guess???
Also, I'm interested in both Hoyt AND Mathews for their weight reduction and increasing width of limbs etc etc... But next bow will probably be a Bowtech for ease of tuning/tinkering... Have an Elite Omnia, but probably never go Elite again just for all the issues the Omnia has had so far... ( I learned heaps about tuning/tearing down and rebuilding a bow from it, though...)
I think a great idea would be to make a custom handle that can be moved to every bow. So that you have the same handle at the same angle. So that you can feel the vibrations. And the handle itself wouldn’t give the bow away. Since they all have the same exact handle.
You should do this without trying to guess which bow it is, take all the bias out of it completely. Just give a legit rating completely on draw, backwall, feel, etc and not trying to determine which is which
By naming the brand first you may be showing bias with your rating. Id be interested to see a test with no brand naming, just rating it based on feel blind folded with a glove
MFJJ has a 6th sense as he was avoiding the fridge on his test run as he was always to the right and the first test with James was always pointed towards the fridge.Guess if you paid for it your gut just knows lol. No unwanted stainless penetration test! But this was very cool . Take the price tags and badging off , then go test fire bows, you just may prefer an entry level bow to a flag ship, or vice versa.
It’s worth subscribing just for this video) In my opinion, guessing a bow model makes the assessment more biased, holding several models in your hands often won’t be enough gloves, so as not to recognize your favorite model, you need to use last year’s models, for example. I think the strength of such a test combined with the archer’s experience makes it as objective as possible, excluding marketing and personal bias. When checking the effect of medications, some patients may receive regular sugar in place of the expected pill, and neither he nor the creator of the medicine knows what and who received it, in order to eliminate bias in the assessment.
Do this test except where the person doesn't know the option of brands there testing to eliminate the guess of the brand so they don't think (that's the Matthew's hoyt ect?) and give it a higher number bc of that thought. just go by the feel
If possible, put the same grip on every bow. Just manufacture a universal grip, if they don't already have one, and attach it to each test bow. That would solve the "grip hack" issue anyways lol
Target wall or closer to target next time. Too much time between draw and shot is likely why every score is so similar. Probably also too worried about shooting that nice fridge rather than concentrating on the bow, lol.
Josh good video without the grip feel makes the blindfold test more difficult. You made fun of James . But now you see what he tried to feel . But honestly I speak from my own personal experience. I never seen anything like that before. Good job guys.
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This legitimately demystified the bow purchasing process... people are mostly basing their feel on their bias and whatever they hear from a shop / reviews. Very interesting experiment that should be explored more
Mmmmm, I don't think so. I've owned many manufacturers flagship bows and there are very distinct differences when you're actually shooting a bow rather just shooting for feel with a glove on.
Of course.. and many purchases are just made out of vanity...
@blackbeard0323 I would be willing to put a Benjamin on it, that you could toss the glove and wear the blindfold and do no better. People buy what they want to buy for many reasons other than the product itself. Otherwise, some of these companies wouldn't break the bank on marketing.
Need to do this at a target wall. By the time you get aimed at the target you have forgot what the draw was like 😂
That's a great suggestion
Super solid point
I agree...but with 3 shots out of each bow
I agree… you would need a little more concentration on the bow instead of the aim and how different it feels. And maybe two shots with the same bow.
Even without a blindfold James called the Elite a Darton 😂. On the first one he handed Josh lol
im like wait what
Not a waste of time awesome information as always you guys. Very awesome to see how close they all feel when taking bias out of it. Thanks again MFJJ and Bow disciples you guys are making a difference.
This is an incredible piece of experimentation, it really goes to show how much advertising, reviews and preconceptual bias to a manufacturer can play a huge part in how you perceive a bow.
Very interesting.
Loved the first two you did with James and now with MFJJ.. this is awesome. Love this kind of honest no BS unbiased stuff.
I've always said the grip is one of the most important parts of the bow interface. It's the first and last thing you interact with on any bow
Great cooperation and a test worth having in mind when shopping for a new bow. Many thanks guys!
You should judge draw cycle right after draw, then balance while holding, then shot after the shot, then guess maker after handing bow away.
If you could buy a universal grip and put on each bow so you could feel vibration but wouldn't be able to tell what bow it was due to a specific grip design then that would be interesting. Like if you could slap the ultraview grip on every bow then you could test vibration and draw cycle without giving away what bow it is right off the bat
It was GREAT to see that The PSE DS won the first test 7.7 rating when James did this test. No based on perception but based on facts of shooting it.
Very nice, a blind MSA study of sorts.
One guy from Louisiana has an archery channel and he graphs/records the draw cycles on a computer program.
Good stuff!
Great content as always. You do a great job of eliminating bias in your videos anyway but this really shows how much preconceived notions everyone has. Keep it up. Enjoy learning from what you do!!
I think a retest with the glove closer to the target to eliminate aiming, but you get one shot and as many draw and let downs as you'd like.
I very much like this kind of test! I think doing a letdown on each bow and then shooting can separate the bows more. I also agree with someone's previous comment about shooting at a target wall as well.
Love the let down idea
Iconic test
This is EXCELLENT. I want to go to my local shop and try this as the shooter. I haven’t shot any of the flagship bows in the past couple of years. I think it would be great. They’d go for it to this time of year not being very busy if I was planning to buy one.
Most honest test ever!
The 1st one seems to be Elite, not Darton
One of the best and funniest vid you make
Its unbelieve how hard is to feel a bow when the grip is gone
And how similar are all bows nowadays
A really nice test👍👍
Would really enjoy you getting an obsession bow in and testing it they don’t have the spotlight that other companies do but with kevin strothers being with them there bows are amazing. Super smooth and super fast
Been waiting for this type of test for a long time
Very interesting video. Does a great job of eliminating bias based on brand by the draw cycle & shot. The only downside is when selecting a bow the grip & vibration can be important but the grip can give it away. Rather than a glove I wonder how it would go if you removed the grips & used tape or a wrap instead.
I think next time while doing this test, you should hook the the release to the string first. Then hand the release to the bow to the shooter, release hand before bow hand.
Love the content as always.
This tells me that all of these flagships bows are ALL good!!
Yes, just gotta find the one that you shoot well. Beyond the feel, it needs to be a bow you shoot well.
Every one of them are great bows, they are also more accurate than any shooter that touches the bow.
Just find one you like and go hunting.
You should do a trial blindfolded but have a few duplicate bows as well. You might end up eliminating one while keeping the other.
Very fun to watch keep doing experiments like this!
Darton twice ? Was the first bow really the elite ?
I think you’re right
Yes the first bow was the Elite 🤦🏼♂️
@Bow_Mafia was it the Prime or the Elite?
Suggestion: Have a larger target area so you can shoot right after drawing so you can weigh in on the cycle and back wall right away
Great vid!. This is how I been wantin to test for a couple years now!.
Yeah this will be a major part of how I choose my next bow if my local shop will allow it.
I like the thought of doing all the bows till you're left with one. You could do the test like an eye doctor. Shoot 2 bows and keep the better of the 2 until your left with the best feeling bow.
This tells the truth. From someone that shoots them alot and he can't tell. In my experience I know certain grips I have problems with shooting left.
100% agree on the bow elimination video, that would be cool. Is there a universal type grip that could be mocked up for them all so that you could hold with a bare hand and feel vibrations as well?
I would say use a rubber like dishwasher glove so you can feel the vibration better and you would be on what feels the best with out biases
I think you need to do this with the bows set up but make sure you use the sight mounts the bows are made to use so a Pic mount or bridgelock and see if it changed the feel of the bow
Yes. More. Tat was very informative. Thanks.
Its interesting, confirms they all build nice bows and it comes down to brand bias as well as what the shooter likes. I would be interested to see him shoot like 5 years of flagships from each manufacturer together in a similar manner. I dont think you could tell a difference. Bow industry does a great job at marketing and making you want the latest and greatest.
Great series of videos, I would definitely be interested in more like this.
Another surprising factor is the weight. The carbon bows weren't distinguishable based on this. Granted, I dont know what those bows weigh compared to the aluminum risers but based on the material and the purpose of a carbon bow, I would only assume that they SHOULD be lighter...
I think this was a great idea and a great video. Look forward to more of them
I'd like to see this done for a newer shooter/buyer. Like here's a lineup, at x price point, blindfolded but no glove so they can feel what the risers doing... Elimination style, when you're done this is more or less the bow you like.
poor Pooh Bear. She may never recover 😆 Awesome content on this one lady & gents
Would it be possible to have the same handle on all bows, so that the glove isn't necessary. That way it would perhaps be possible to get a better feel of the vibration on the different bows. Also I like the idea of doing this at a target wall to eliminate the time between drawing and aiming.
In any case, thanks for doing this. Very valuable indeed. Keep it up guys!
The matthews was a dead give away being the only drop away rest. Love the videos!
bc of the shitty draw cycle
Yea, do more of these. I thought you would get more right than James. Hey, but what do I know? Anyway, it was very interesting.
This shows that there are no real bad choices. One thing that would be interesting would be a group test at like 50 yards. Get everyone to try so you have a few different shooters. 3 shots isn’t really enough though unless you’re using a hooter shooter
Put a sandbag or heavy board on the ground that you put you toes against. That way you're standing relatively the same each shot.
Hope you guys do this every year.
great vid. why was the audio so biazarre though?
I love this. I would love to see you guys shoot and rate one round then guess brand on a second round.
It would have been nice if we would have seen the name of bow you shot so we would know if you got it right and what you thought it was.
Maybe some tennis racket tape on the grip to hide the grip some but not vibration
I think this was a cool test. The next time I buy a bow I think I will test it blindfolded to eliminate the name bias.
I would like to see this..testing Carbon VS Aluminum bows.
So choose your ATA (if you need a specific ATA), then do this blindfolded glove test with a selection of bows...then find out if the grip on your top pick feels good i guess???
Also, I'm interested in both Hoyt AND Mathews for their weight reduction and increasing width of limbs etc etc...
But next bow will probably be a Bowtech for ease of tuning/tinkering...
Have an Elite Omnia, but probably never go Elite again just for all the issues the Omnia has had so far... ( I learned heaps about tuning/tearing down and rebuilding a bow from it, though...)
Just one thing being able to see which ones you got right an how you ranked them a bit better but these are awesome videos
I think a great idea would be to make a custom handle that can be moved to every bow. So that you have the same handle at the same angle. So that you can feel the vibrations. And the handle itself wouldn’t give the bow away. Since they all have the same exact handle.
Absolutely outstanding test
Oh this is gonna catch on like wild fire 🔥
Very fun videos and I think you should do the video elimination and see what you end up with in the end
Personally, i'd like to see you attempt Falconry afterwards......... or welding.
If there was a way to make the grips on all the bows the same with some kind of 3d printed clip on grips then you'd be able to feel vibration.
You should do this without trying to guess which bow it is, take all the bias out of it completely. Just give a legit rating completely on draw, backwall, feel, etc and not trying to determine which is which
By naming the brand first you may be showing bias with your rating. Id be interested to see a test with no brand naming, just rating it based on feel blind folded with a glove
This was cool test next time throw some of the budget bows in there with the flagships
Sounds like a mini series...who's next? Tim C. maybe for starters.
Awesome, and eye opening.
MFJJ has a 6th sense as he was avoiding the fridge on his test run as he was always to the right and the first test with James was always pointed towards the fridge.Guess if you paid for it your gut just knows lol. No unwanted stainless penetration test! But this was very cool . Take the price tags and badging off , then go test fire bows, you just may prefer an entry level bow to a flag ship, or vice versa.
Do more things like this lol very entertaining and stats are interesting
You have 2 dartons was one a elite? if you look at the first bow shot and the 7th
The first bow was a elite not a darton.
The first bow, barely hit on the edge of the target 🎯 lmfao! 😬😬😅
Hold on! VAR call. The first one was a Darton and the second to last also a Darton?
The 1st bow he shot was actually the Elite.
Why was there 2 dartons on the list and not an elite for bows , not guesses.. ??
The second “Darton” was the Elite
He got the elite right !! Dude handing the bows didn’t know what the bows were lol
This is a competition of who knows their flagship bows, better.
I thought we were doing an unbiased review…?
This amazing Dan and Tim next!!!
It’s worth subscribing just for this video) In my opinion, guessing a bow model makes the assessment more biased, holding several models in your hands often won’t be enough gloves, so as not to recognize your favorite model, you need to use last year’s models, for example. I think the strength of such a test combined with the archer’s experience makes it as objective as possible, excluding marketing and personal bias. When checking the effect of medications, some patients may receive regular sugar in place of the expected pill, and neither he nor the creator of the medicine knows what and who received it, in order to eliminate bias in the assessment.
You should mix in some mid priced bows and see if he can tell you
Looks like the PSI was pretty high also but not mentioned
Do this test except where the person doesn't know the option of brands there testing to eliminate the guess of the brand so they don't think (that's the Matthew's hoyt ect?) and give it a higher number bc of that thought. just go by the feel
If possible, put the same grip on every bow. Just manufacture a universal grip, if they don't already have one, and attach it to each test bow. That would solve the "grip hack" issue anyways lol
The only thing they agreed on… Bear is the worst 😂
Target wall or closer to target next time. Too much time between draw and shot is likely why every score is so similar. Probably also too worried about shooting that nice fridge rather than concentrating on the bow, lol.
Don't forget James to tap dem jewels too🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲
How did you not mess up your doo
Very interesting for sure.
that first bow did not look lke a Darton bow.Great vid.
Great video idea
How many Keystones were involved lol. But great video
It’d be funny to see him hand him the same bow and see what he says
Cool test
So fun to watch.
Love it guys more people to do it and an elimination.. get all the guys in the shop to do it
Great video
Josh good video without the grip feel makes the blindfold test more difficult. You made fun of James . But now you see what he tried to feel . But honestly I speak from my own personal experience. I never seen anything like that before. Good job guys.
Ya should have put a piece of aluminum in front of the target on the last shot and told him he shot his fridge….great content BTW.
I think it was cool. It's definitely entertaining and informational at the same time. Informative I guess
I think you'll see much more difference in target bows. Hunting bows all draw pretty similar target is a different animal.
I think you should do 3 shots not just one