I've seen some discourse on Twitter from Rivals players who really dislike the new changes, but damn does this platform fighter hit the sweet spot for me. As someone who has been playing rivals since the closed Alpha almost 10 years ago and Melee for 8, it has the perfect mix of the things I love about both, I had a fantastic time with it.
Not being able to cancel landing lag with jumpsquat is a pretty huge change from rivals one, and for a lot of rivals players it's one of the biggest things they like about it as opposed to other games in the genre. I personally would rather they kept it and nerfed combos in other ways, but I have to admit it feels good to play regardless.
@@zoobnash2578 yeah Menace (QA) said that it was a nightmare of a feature due to constantly having to nerf out infinites, which in turn makes moves less good/satisfying just because otherwise there exists an infinite on Wrastor. So I understand why they decided to not do that.
theres a bit of a misconception when it comes to hitfalling, i dont think rivals players want it to be "faster" in the sense that they become more actionable, they just want the input to feel a bit more similar to R1s. u can press down in hitpause in that game and itll buffer your hitfall but you gotta time ur hitfall alot more in r2 and currently that changed timing doesnt really add depth to the system so im assuming thats why r1 players want hitfalling to feel "faster". i think a better word would be "smoother" most r1 players are not complaining about combos being "too strong" theyre moreso saying defensive options are too weak. its a beta so obviously everythings subject to change and counterplay needs more time to develop but r1 players are finding alot of stuff very quickly so it just doesnt bode well for them. game is sick and we all want it to be good but theres just some stuff u cannot ignore and fwiw i have faith the devs will make those parts of the game better, bcuz rivals 1 used to be awful and then they made it good overtime
Thanks for explaining the hitfalling disconnect more, that makes a lot more sense then. The timing felt close to the same for me, but I can totally see how that's tripping people up And yeah, "offense too strong" and "defense too weak" definitely go hand in hand. I'm with you on being confident it'll all keep being tweaked. I'm sure it'll be a mix of finding counterplay and actual balance changes, didn't mean to discount that. Tried to say it'll be both, but that might've gotten lost since this video was just speaking off the cuff with some bullet points
I’m pretty sure in both games you’re required to hit it during hit pause, because it’s originally from a bug that calced your velocity as 0 during hit pause and let you fast fall
6:55 lmao, this was exactly my experience with Clairen. The lower hitstun on tippers and the general engine differences made her feel so different at first, and all my rivals 1 kill confirms were gone. And then once you figure out her new play style, it all clicks pretty quickly. I legit can’t wait until the next beta, this game feels amazing.
@@atWisely Same here! Something about R2 Clairen feels so much smoother to me. She feels faster and I love using her new NSpecial, and it all just clicked with me a lot more than R1 Clairen did. I still suck at spacing my tippers when trying to KO though; Gotta lab that a bit 😅
Thankyou for teaching us to think for ourselves for character picks LOL. But yeah, game feel definitely is an work in progress. I think the fact we got an open Beta at this point really does re-establish my faith in these devs. Personally , I think movement strats is tough to grasp due to the increase animation / transitional frames from ROA1 and ROA2 . Of course , bearing in mind of new engine. Hoping to get more momentum off my wavedash jumps to short hop aerials like in ROA1.
As a more casual player, trying to play the beta was brutal and I couldn’t have much fun tbh. Without any kind of tutorials or combo trials, I didn’t know a lot of mechanics and the only people I got matched with clearly already knew what they were doing. To be expected, of course. And I know this will be a more hardcore game than Smash is, audience-wise. But it felt like I just had no defensive options that were effective, which I HOPE was more the disparity in experience and my lack of knowledge of some mechanics. Game felt pretty good, at least!
launch game should have better ranked matchmaking with all new players and also a good tutorial mode which explains mechanics and even individual character basics, atleast if rivals 1 is anything to go off of. rn about 99% of people who backed rivals 2 were probably competitive smash ult/melee/pm/rivals 1/etc players who sunk more than a few years into their games in brackets, and that definitely carried over. i wouldn't worry too much, when the game launches you'll be able to practice with more new players, and with a beginner friendly system. hope this helps, the game is lovely and i'm sure you'll also grow to love it more and more :)
This beta weekend was my first time playing Rivals ever coming from Smash Ultimate and I had a blast. Super cool to see you already pumping out quality content before the game is out, really looking forward to seeing more from you!
I think the issue with combos for me is that the defense options don't feel intuitive enough for you to be able to escape these options, I'm not a PM / Melee player and I genuinely don't like CC as a mechanic so take this next point with a grain of salt but I don't really think that while grounded holding down at low (and sometimes even high / kill percents) should be the most optimal thing to do because it's almost like a one size fits all solution (obviously getting countered by grab or harder hitting moves that break cc), and having these scramble situations where you're constantly floorhugging is really not fun to deal with IMO. As for aerial combos, I think the reason why people say they are too easy (regardless of hitfalling being harder), is because the defense options are SO limited, usually in Rivals at least, moves were designed around drift DI, and that made combos feel much more responsive both for the person doing the combo and the person trying to escape the combo, when you were getting combo'ed you were considering your drift because it gave you a possibility of escaping, while the other person had to take into account their opponents drift and that would change their option select, here that nuance of another layer of depth is completely removed, on top of moves feeling like they do a lot more hitstun because you're locked into your initial DI instead of being able to shift it after a little while, and it can just make some combos feel (and sometimes literally be) auto combos, there were very rarely any true confirms in Rivals and here it just seems like they lowered the bar for how easy it is to kill off a combo rather than a well placed move / read on the other person's movement.
Hours 1-3: Man Fleet's a bit of a disappointment, she can't combo, can't kill without edgeguards, and loses her best kit to parry, can I even main her? Hour 4: Oh wait no she has DI mixups and techchases like a dream Hour 5: Oh wait do upair and bair have sweetspots?! Hour 6: Oh wait I can bait parry :)
Definitely agree with the sentiment about tech chases being too easy. In some sets, I literally got tech chased successfully 100% of the time. It's like they had a full second to react.
Rivals 2 is definitely one of the best platform fighters I've ever played and it's not even out yet. I do have some minor gripes with it that are similar to the talking points in this video, but everything is subject to change and I have no doubt that this game will continue getting better
In R1 a character could waveland by airdodging horizontally when they were only halfway through a platform. This made the movement very smooth and fast. In R2 the character needs to be completely above the platform. It's very apparant on a stage like merchamt port. In affect all of the platforms are higher when it comes to movement
Combos in rivals one made me rip my hair out. People would tell me to di down and away and I'd still get true combo'd across the stage. And I was a maypul player so even after 500 hours of pure maypul practice I still sucked at the punish game lol. That said I feel like one of the understated reasons why some rivals 1 players find the combos a lot easier and the players from other platformers dint see it that way is because we're coming from a pixel game with hitboxes and hurtboxes that don't match up with the model, and imo 3d models are easier to follow than pixel characters.
Magnificent beard sir 🫡 I would kill for that. My beard basically looks like cat whiskers… I didn’t even hear a word u said. Gonna have to start the video over
So glad someone is saying it, NO CHARACTER IS BAD. It's honestly fucking incredible that they managed to get all these characters in such a good balance state still this early into the game. I'm so impressed
I played the whole beta on my dorm's wifi just to test the netcode and I was incredibly impressed. Stayed within my own region but matches were much more coherent than I would get with GGST, for example, in the same environment. This is a far cry from Rivals 1 netcode in the best way possible
@@atWisely I certainly enjoy the casual format, since you can put your thoughts together much more quickly, but no music is definitely the first thing I noticed. Even just looping a soft track like the Rivals 1 menu theme is a fairly small addition which has a notable perceived impact to quality.
I find it funny how this game is being talked about in such a doomeresc way at times because most fighting games really aren't spectacular until near the end or years into their life like guilty gear for example people talk about xrd rev2 like its a gift from the heavens and that daisuke forgot how to make good fighting games when strive was newer and completely forgetting how it took years and multiple versions of being refined into what it is today same goes with literally every street fighter game 2 had like 9 versions 3 had 3, 4 had like 2 main versions and 5 somehow went from the worst launch in sf history to a really cool game by the end. It's kinda just how fighting games are really.
I’m making a video regarding parry and I wanted to know your thoughts on it. Imo it’s kinda dumb. Like it simultaneously kinda sucks but since the game has shields now, having that large 40 frame stun at the end is so unnecessary. I think having a tastier, less laggy parry, with a shorter stub would make the game feel better and be more fun. I just don’t think it’s necessary for people to be getting charged strings off of a parried jab 2 anymore (happened to a lox)
I just know it’s considered a finished issue and I do t think we should be satisfied with that. And I don’t see how it makes the game better, other than feeling familiar to older players. Again I think parey is a cool concept and the rivals identity of a longer stun compared to other games is cool. I just think it should be tweaked further
I gotta be honest here. Did I expect PM players to show up and be really good? Yes, yes I did. Did those same players absolutely flood the weekend and make my experience as a relatively new Rivals player kinda miserable? Yes. They definitely did. I get that most of the backers are going to be people who are already invested in the series or similar games, but idk how the community is ever going to grow if every game is just "Get stomped for not having 3+ years of practice." Like, I don't play Melee for a reason. This exact reason. (and tbh I don't see people who are willing to learn Melee choosing Rivals 2 instead)
Most of the folks who backed early and at a higher level for beta access are people that have been involved in other games. I know I recognized a good number of the names I ran into too It'll be better on the full public release when the larger casual audience jumps on board! Sorry it was a rough time for you on this one though :(
I agree with most of this. But I do feel like disadvantage and defensive options are too weak. It is so freaking hard to get back to neutral after getting hit and it takes a lot of the dynamic reading of your opponent out of the equation which is one of the coolest things about fighting games. You dont really have to go for hard reads or mind games. You can just hit them and keep hitting them almost for free until they die. It sucks on both ends personally. When your getting you feel like you just dont get to play the game. And then when you are the one in the driver seat its feels really unrewarding and unsatisfying because you know your opponent is just stuck and cant do much. It almost feels like your just hitting a training dummy at times since your opponent cant really react to a lot of your offensive options. This is just how I feel but honestly if it takes people 6 years to figure out how to not get comboed to death honestly I think the game will die off way before people figure out how to play properly. Overall super solid game so far and they got a very strong foundation. But game needs a lot of work if it wants to become a mainstay.
It's funny that people say offense is too strong because I feel just the opposite. There's too many defensive mechanics, people live way too long and recoveries are busted as hell. It's honestly killing a lot of my enjoyment as someone who likes Melee/Smash64.
TLDR - I just want everything cranked to 11 like rivals 1. Buff movement to be like Rivals 1, buff defense *while being comboed* (drift di), and nerf defense in neutral (shields and maybe CC) To me, aggressive play cranked to 11, that’s the rivals identity. Hitfalling, whiff lag/attack cancel, and drift DI already had a great balance. You needed great movement to have strong combos as a product of drift DI, you couldn’t just mindlessly throw moves because of whiff lag, and when you did get hit there’s still mind games to be played in how you try to mess up your opponent’s combos with your DI Cranking up combos with better hitfalling is too strong without being able to do anything against uair -> uair -> uair, hence drift DI. Someone suggested to make drift DI scale down with knock back which I think is a good compromise so that Kragg and Loxodont can’t live to insane % Also there’s no cancelling landing lag into jump squat so no hitfall -> wavedash combos. Combos in general are just slower and feel less free flowing than rivals 1, probably partly because there isn’t drift DI to react to. Wavedashes seem nerfed across the board too, Maypul’s is almost nonexistent. Platboosting and moosting (I think it was called?) was extremely satisfying, especially on Clairen, but it’s barely there. Feels like momentum isn’t conserved as much. I think part of people’s frustration is two fold. First, rivals 1 feels amazing to play so the game feel bar is set pretty high. Second, as it stands right now, movement wise things are mostly being taken away from rivals 1, and there’s a lot of situations where you can’t really do anything while being hit with a combo so the game as a whole feels slower and less interactive Regardless it’s in a pretty good state right now, cautiously excited to see where they take it but I’m still desperately on copium that we are granted movement in line with rivals 1 I picked up rivals 1 about four months ago so I’m not a high level player by any stretch, so I could be way off the mark but that’s my first impressions
Cross-game mains for me were Maypul and Clairen, and while Maypul clicked pretty quickly, Clairen did not. I will figure her out eventually, she's just different now.
i've seen someone call loxodont bad despite that lox was the only character i did well with and also i seen players in a tournament stream do well with him. imo every character is close to each other with some being obviously slightly weaker than others. i don't personally think lox is bottom or top of the cast. kind of in the middle. also as a pm player, this game flows naturally to me and it felt good that i didn't have to make too much adjustments to the engine.
Great takes. I think anyone giving feedback at this stage should put in at least a little effort to say they know the game is new and that it's a beta. Unfortunately dunning kruger gonna make a lot of stupid people mouth off
If you could decide, would you replace it with an alternative combo counterplay option or would you keep R2 as is? I'm reading a lot of people expressing a loss of depth in advantage from removing drift di, so I'm also curious what you have against it
@@Smenchevieve My main dislike for it is that it’s just not the most clear mechanic from a spectator or newer player standpoint. I think it’s a great mechanic in Rivals 1 because the defensive options are so limited in that game, but Rivals 2 already has more ways to prevent getting put into a combo in the first place, so I don’t think drift di specifically should be the first thing they add back. If anything, I think it would make sense to just make tech chasing a little more difficult since it’s pretty easy right now, and also fine tuning some oppressive combo moves like Wrastor up air so that you can’t just do it 500 times in a row. From the beta weekend, it felt like combo expression was in a really good spot even though it might be a little too easy right now. Fine tuning character balance will fix it in time.
I really don't know what the need for old FG players nowadays to look for everything that looks a little bit negative about the new game just to say "The older game is better and the new one is a pile of bull shit for noobs and scrubs" Also, the take that PM players would get the hang of this game quickly is the purest truth.
They gutted my boy wrastor :( I want the rivals 1 feel for him back even if people get out of his combos easier Especially for his wind that shit is too strict now Some stuff just feels more like 64 than melee as it is, and slap city does that feel way better
I haven't played rivals 2 yet but judging by what people said about the combos, no drift di and poor defensive options in neutral, its shaping up to be a lame game to me. Its a fighting game, give us a way to fight back lol, adds more variety when fighting too
5:40 I played midnight release, and no, people did not think that KKR was good, the casual reddit hivemind thought he was, and Nintendo listened and nerfed him when he didn't need to be nerfed at all. I think the whole holding neutral B at ledge because it was quite literally covering every option was kinda boring and lame, and I'm glad they shortened how long it could be held for that fact, but either way, "people" are just vocal minority. The REAL opinion in early ultimate was that chrom was broken because he could win every game if he got a stock up, pikachu was broken for no-one-knows what reason, and inking was broken because of ink. that was what "people" thought.
The lack of drift DI, the endlag of 10 frames to wavedashing and hitfalling being off is not doing 2 any favors. Also give it time and people might finally wake up about bubbleshields being attrocious game design.Rivals 2 is anti rivals its not even funny at this point.
@@fdsaa Its a free defensive block with no downsides really. Even if it gets weaker it regenerates back super fast. Its usually large as well and covers every possible angle of aggression by just holding a button down. Its the antithesis of an interesting defensive options and is op as sin. One day more might realize that bubble shields were a mistake even Rivals 2 made them op as sin by allowing powershielding making parrying worhtless for a good amount of times. To sum it up Bubble shields do way too much for no resources as a defensive mechanic and has no downside like other options in neutral.
@@garf6748 It is though i mean it doesn't feel like an evolution of rivals or a sequel. Its feels like a worse project M. Rivals Drift DI added so much deph to punish game and escaping pressure and combos. Wavedashing not being as freeflow as 1 hurts general movement. Bubbleshields don't belong in platfighters and Dan's take on them is no better than smash's so in other words its too good and rewards defensive play too much. Ledge options don't seem like its adding anything to the game so far and hitstun looks too weak in comparison to rivals 1 but drift DI would make the game far more interesting alone also Pratfalling feels wrong in 2. If you like 2 though be my guest but i will stick with 1 and workshop and PM stuff over this when i play a platfighter and with combo devils possibly becoming a thing and doing what i would want from a platfighter i got even less reason to want to touch something i have been iffy on since the reveals of it being more like smash and less like rivals.
Игры
I've seen some discourse on Twitter from Rivals players who really dislike the new changes, but damn does this platform fighter hit the sweet spot for me. As someone who has been playing rivals since the closed Alpha almost 10 years ago and Melee for 8, it has the perfect mix of the things I love about both, I had a fantastic time with it.
Not being able to cancel landing lag with jumpsquat is a pretty huge change from rivals one, and for a lot of rivals players it's one of the biggest things they like about it as opposed to other games in the genre. I personally would rather they kept it and nerfed combos in other ways, but I have to admit it feels good to play regardless.
@@zoobnash2578 yeah Menace (QA) said that it was a nightmare of a feature due to constantly having to nerf out infinites, which in turn makes moves less good/satisfying just because otherwise there exists an infinite on Wrastor. So I understand why they decided to not do that.
We getting out of maypuls combos with this one ‼‼‼‼‼‼⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉ 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Never
Stop spamming, thank you!
theres a bit of a misconception when it comes to hitfalling, i dont think rivals players want it to be "faster" in the sense that they become more actionable, they just want the input to feel a bit more similar to R1s. u can press down in hitpause in that game and itll buffer your hitfall but you gotta time ur hitfall alot more in r2 and currently that changed timing doesnt really add depth to the system so im assuming thats why r1 players want hitfalling to feel "faster". i think a better word would be "smoother"
most r1 players are not complaining about combos being "too strong" theyre moreso saying defensive options are too weak. its a beta so obviously everythings subject to change and counterplay needs more time to develop but r1 players are finding alot of stuff very quickly so it just doesnt bode well for them. game is sick and we all want it to be good but theres just some stuff u cannot ignore and fwiw i have faith the devs will make those parts of the game better, bcuz rivals 1 used to be awful and then they made it good overtime
Thanks for explaining the hitfalling disconnect more, that makes a lot more sense then. The timing felt close to the same for me, but I can totally see how that's tripping people up
And yeah, "offense too strong" and "defense too weak" definitely go hand in hand. I'm with you on being confident it'll all keep being tweaked. I'm sure it'll be a mix of finding counterplay and actual balance changes, didn't mean to discount that. Tried to say it'll be both, but that might've gotten lost since this video was just speaking off the cuff with some bullet points
@@atWisely ur good homie dw its a good video
I’m pretty sure in both games you’re required to hit it during hit pause, because it’s originally from a bug that calced your velocity as 0 during hit pause and let you fast fall
@@alex__9001 it definitely felt super different at genesis, theyve taken steps towards making it feel better tho
I miss when K Rool was top tier..... 😢
when inkling was seen as one of the best and armada played them ... 😢
@@tashi32_Armada vs Apologyman was a legendary set.
@@EDDYSUNSHINEv2 oh my god i forgot apologyman played some ultimate what a legend hahaha i love that guy
"you hate playing low tiers in every game but you also dont know how to read" god damn LOL
6:55 lmao, this was exactly my experience with Clairen. The lower hitstun on tippers and the general engine differences made her feel so different at first, and all my rivals 1 kill confirms were gone. And then once you figure out her new play style, it all clicks pretty quickly. I legit can’t wait until the next beta, this game feels amazing.
Ironically, my Clairen is WAY better in 2 than in 1, haha
@@atWisely Same here! Something about R2 Clairen feels so much smoother to me. She feels faster and I love using her new NSpecial, and it all just clicked with me a lot more than R1 Clairen did. I still suck at spacing my tippers when trying to KO though; Gotta lab that a bit 😅
Thankyou for teaching us to think for ourselves for character picks LOL.
But yeah, game feel definitely is an work in progress. I think the fact we got an open Beta at this point really does re-establish my faith in these devs.
Personally , I think movement strats is tough to grasp due to the increase animation / transitional frames from ROA1 and ROA2 . Of course , bearing in mind of new engine.
Hoping to get more momentum off my wavedash jumps to short hop aerials like in ROA1.
As a more casual player, trying to play the beta was brutal and I couldn’t have much fun tbh.
Without any kind of tutorials or combo trials, I didn’t know a lot of mechanics and the only people I got matched with clearly already knew what they were doing. To be expected, of course. And I know this will be a more hardcore game than Smash is, audience-wise. But it felt like I just had no defensive options that were effective, which I HOPE was more the disparity in experience and my lack of knowledge of some mechanics. Game felt pretty good, at least!
launch game should have better ranked matchmaking with all new players and also a good tutorial mode which explains mechanics and even individual character basics, atleast if rivals 1 is anything to go off of.
rn about 99% of people who backed rivals 2 were probably competitive smash ult/melee/pm/rivals 1/etc players who sunk more than a few years into their games in brackets, and that definitely carried over.
i wouldn't worry too much, when the game launches you'll be able to practice with more new players, and with a beginner friendly system. hope this helps, the game is lovely and i'm sure you'll also grow to love it more and more :)
I was writing something, but @eyeris4050 already said it all :)
This beta weekend was my first time playing Rivals ever coming from Smash Ultimate and I had a blast. Super cool to see you already pumping out quality content before the game is out, really looking forward to seeing more from you!
I think the issue with combos for me is that the defense options don't feel intuitive enough for you to be able to escape these options, I'm not a PM / Melee player and I genuinely don't like CC as a mechanic so take this next point with a grain of salt but I don't really think that while grounded holding down at low (and sometimes even high / kill percents) should be the most optimal thing to do because it's almost like a one size fits all solution (obviously getting countered by grab or harder hitting moves that break cc), and having these scramble situations where you're constantly floorhugging is really not fun to deal with IMO.
As for aerial combos, I think the reason why people say they are too easy (regardless of hitfalling being harder), is because the defense options are SO limited, usually in Rivals at least, moves were designed around drift DI, and that made combos feel much more responsive both for the person doing the combo and the person trying to escape the combo, when you were getting combo'ed you were considering your drift because it gave you a possibility of escaping, while the other person had to take into account their opponents drift and that would change their option select, here that nuance of another layer of depth is completely removed, on top of moves feeling like they do a lot more hitstun because you're locked into your initial DI instead of being able to shift it after a little while, and it can just make some combos feel (and sometimes literally be) auto combos, there were very rarely any true confirms in Rivals and here it just seems like they lowered the bar for how easy it is to kill off a combo rather than a well placed move / read on the other person's movement.
Hours 1-3: Man Fleet's a bit of a disappointment, she can't combo, can't kill without edgeguards, and loses her best kit to parry, can I even main her?
Hour 4: Oh wait no she has DI mixups and techchases like a dream
Hour 5: Oh wait do upair and bair have sweetspots?!
Hour 6: Oh wait I can bait parry :)
Definitely agree with the sentiment about tech chases being too easy. In some sets, I literally got tech chased successfully 100% of the time. It's like they had a full second to react.
Rivals 2 is definitely one of the best platform fighters I've ever played and it's not even out yet. I do have some minor gripes with it that are similar to the talking points in this video, but everything is subject to change and I have no doubt that this game will continue getting better
In R1 a character could waveland by airdodging horizontally when they were only halfway through a platform. This made the movement very smooth and fast. In R2 the character needs to be completely above the platform. It's very apparant on a stage like merchamt port. In affect all of the platforms are higher when it comes to movement
Combos in rivals one made me rip my hair out. People would tell me to di down and away and I'd still get true combo'd across the stage. And I was a maypul player so even after 500 hours of pure maypul practice I still sucked at the punish game lol.
That said I feel like one of the understated reasons why some rivals 1 players find the combos a lot easier and the players from other platformers dint see it that way is because we're coming from a pixel game with hitboxes and hurtboxes that don't match up with the model, and imo 3d models are easier to follow than pixel characters.
Magnificent beard sir 🫡 I would kill for that. My beard basically looks like cat whiskers…
I didn’t even hear a word u said. Gonna have to start the video over
Hey btw what do think the charcter s that gonna be added are like orcane or anything
So glad someone is saying it, NO CHARACTER IS BAD. It's honestly fucking incredible that they managed to get all these characters in such a good balance state still this early into the game. I'm so impressed
A lot of the longer combos will be balanced in Doubles as well if you have a partner who can assist
I played the whole beta on my dorm's wifi just to test the netcode and I was incredibly impressed. Stayed within my own region but matches were much more coherent than I would get with GGST, for example, in the same environment. This is a far cry from Rivals 1 netcode in the best way possible
It’s probably different people saying combos are to easy and that hit falling should be better
some light background music would of helped this video I think, overall pretty good tho.Rivals 2 will be goated
Yeah, my normal stuff has all that, way more editing, etc
First time trying this more casual format :)
@@atWisely I certainly enjoy the casual format, since you can put your thoughts together much more quickly, but no music is definitely the first thing I noticed. Even just looping a soft track like the Rivals 1 menu theme is a fairly small addition which has a notable perceived impact to quality.
I find it funny how this game is being talked about in such a doomeresc way at times because most fighting games really aren't spectacular until near the end or years into their life like guilty gear for example people talk about xrd rev2 like its a gift from the heavens and that daisuke forgot how to make good fighting games when strive was newer and completely forgetting how it took years and multiple versions of being refined into what it is today same goes with literally every street fighter game 2 had like 9 versions 3 had 3, 4 had like 2 main versions and 5 somehow went from the worst launch in sf history to a really cool game by the end. It's kinda just how fighting games are really.
My issue isn't just Tech Chasing, but Crouch Canceling is too stronk!
I’m making a video regarding parry and I wanted to know your thoughts on it. Imo it’s kinda dumb. Like it simultaneously kinda sucks but since the game has shields now, having that large 40 frame stun at the end is so unnecessary. I think having a tastier, less laggy parry, with a shorter stub would make the game feel better and be more fun. I just don’t think it’s necessary for people to be getting charged strings off of a parried jab 2 anymore (happened to a lox)
I just know it’s considered a finished issue and I do t think we should be satisfied with that. And I don’t see how it makes the game better, other than feeling familiar to older players. Again I think parey is a cool concept and the rivals identity of a longer stun compared to other games is cool. I just think it should be tweaked further
great stuff wisely :)
I'm not sure if Tekken 8 players need to hear this or if that game still needs defensive mechanics to correspond with all the heat madness they added.
reminding gamers to have common sense, a battle that is never fully won but we fight it all the same.
thats what makes it fun!
and accessible! :D
I gotta be honest here.
Did I expect PM players to show up and be really good? Yes, yes I did.
Did those same players absolutely flood the weekend and make my experience as a relatively new Rivals player kinda miserable? Yes. They definitely did.
I get that most of the backers are going to be people who are already invested in the series or similar games, but idk how the community is ever going to grow if every game is just "Get stomped for not having 3+ years of practice." Like, I don't play Melee for a reason. This exact reason. (and tbh I don't see people who are willing to learn Melee choosing Rivals 2 instead)
Most of the folks who backed early and at a higher level for beta access are people that have been involved in other games. I know I recognized a good number of the names I ran into too
It'll be better on the full public release when the larger casual audience jumps on board! Sorry it was a rough time for you on this one though :(
I agree with most of this. But I do feel like disadvantage and defensive options are too weak. It is so freaking hard to get back to neutral after getting hit and it takes a lot of the dynamic reading of your opponent out of the equation which is one of the coolest things about fighting games. You dont really have to go for hard reads or mind games. You can just hit them and keep hitting them almost for free until they die.
It sucks on both ends personally. When your getting you feel like you just dont get to play the game. And then when you are the one in the driver seat its feels really unrewarding and unsatisfying because you know your opponent is just stuck and cant do much. It almost feels like your just hitting a training dummy at times since your opponent cant really react to a lot of your offensive options. This is just how I feel but honestly if it takes people 6 years to figure out how to not get comboed to death honestly I think the game will die off way before people figure out how to play properly.
Overall super solid game so far and they got a very strong foundation. But game needs a lot of work if it wants to become a mainstay.
It's funny that people say offense is too strong because I feel just the opposite. There's too many defensive mechanics, people live way too long and recoveries are busted as hell. It's honestly killing a lot of my enjoyment as someone who likes Melee/Smash64.
TLDR - I just want everything cranked to 11 like rivals 1. Buff movement to be like Rivals 1, buff defense *while being comboed* (drift di), and nerf defense in neutral (shields and maybe CC)
To me, aggressive play cranked to 11, that’s the rivals identity. Hitfalling, whiff lag/attack cancel, and drift DI already had a great balance. You needed great movement to have strong combos as a product of drift DI, you couldn’t just mindlessly throw moves because of whiff lag, and when you did get hit there’s still mind games to be played in how you try to mess up your opponent’s combos with your DI
Cranking up combos with better hitfalling is too strong without being able to do anything against uair -> uair -> uair, hence drift DI.
Someone suggested to make drift DI scale down with knock back which I think is a good compromise so that Kragg and Loxodont can’t live to insane %
Also there’s no cancelling landing lag into jump squat so no hitfall -> wavedash combos. Combos in general are just slower and feel less free flowing than rivals 1, probably partly because there isn’t drift DI to react to. Wavedashes seem nerfed across the board too, Maypul’s is almost nonexistent. Platboosting and moosting (I think it was called?) was extremely satisfying, especially on Clairen, but it’s barely there. Feels like momentum isn’t conserved as much.
I think part of people’s frustration is two fold. First, rivals 1 feels amazing to play so the game feel bar is set pretty high. Second, as it stands right now, movement wise things are mostly being taken away from rivals 1, and there’s a lot of situations where you can’t really do anything while being hit with a combo so the game as a whole feels slower and less interactive
Regardless it’s in a pretty good state right now, cautiously excited to see where they take it but I’m still desperately on copium that we are granted movement in line with rivals 1
I picked up rivals 1 about four months ago so I’m not a high level player by any stretch, so I could be way off the mark but that’s my first impressions
Literally just commenting to say that I agree that Hitfalling is in a good place for the time being.
Cross-game mains for me were Maypul and Clairen, and while Maypul clicked pretty quickly, Clairen did not. I will figure her out eventually, she's just different now.
Best plataform fighter ever made !
Smash looks like a snyder movie lol slow motion as F u c k
Drift DI- less behavior
i've seen someone call loxodont bad
despite that lox was the only character i did well with and also i seen players in a tournament stream do well with him.
imo every character is close to each other with some being obviously slightly weaker than others. i don't personally think lox is bottom or top of the cast. kind of in the middle.
also as a pm player, this game flows naturally to me and it felt good that i didn't have to make too much adjustments to the engine.
ANOTHER BANGER VIDEO
Ledge trump is a lot better, then Just hold it so your oponent will die
Only thing that Ultimate is better then Rivals 2
Great takes. I think anyone giving feedback at this stage should put in at least a little effort to say they know the game is new and that it's a beta. Unfortunately dunning kruger gonna make a lot of stupid people mouth off
I hope they don’t bring back drift di, the game really doesn’t need it imo
If you could decide, would you replace it with an alternative combo counterplay option or would you keep R2 as is?
I'm reading a lot of people expressing a loss of depth in advantage from removing drift di, so I'm also curious what you have against it
@@Smenchevieve My main dislike for it is that it’s just not the most clear mechanic from a spectator or newer player standpoint. I think it’s a great mechanic in Rivals 1 because the defensive options are so limited in that game, but Rivals 2 already has more ways to prevent getting put into a combo in the first place, so I don’t think drift di specifically should be the first thing they add back. If anything, I think it would make sense to just make tech chasing a little more difficult since it’s pretty easy right now, and also fine tuning some oppressive combo moves like Wrastor up air so that you can’t just do it 500 times in a row. From the beta weekend, it felt like combo expression was in a really good spot even though it might be a little too easy right now. Fine tuning character balance will fix it in time.
I really don't know what the need for old FG players nowadays to look for everything that looks a little bit negative about the new game just to say "The older game is better and the new one is a pile of bull shit for noobs and scrubs"
Also, the take that PM players would get the hang of this game quickly is the purest truth.
They gutted my boy wrastor :( I want the rivals 1 feel for him back even if people get out of his combos easier
Especially for his wind that shit is too strict now
Some stuff just feels more like 64 than melee as it is, and slap city does that feel way better
Like his aerials got way more endlag it feels like ass the bird's combos are way more grounded now and it just ruins his identity
Good video!
I don't mean to sound haughty, but your section on balance should be common knowledge to anyone with a competitive background.
Please dan just bring back drift di 🙏 🙏🙏
Oh?? So that's why di felt so stiff?? Because they removed it??
YES PLEASE DAN WHY THE FUQ IS IT GONE NOW?!
The code is literally in the game but disabled. Just……. Turn it on even for one beta. I wanna see how it feels
I haven't played rivals 2 yet but judging by what people said about the combos, no drift di and poor defensive options in neutral, its shaping up to be a lame game to me. Its a fighting game, give us a way to fight back lol, adds more variety when fighting too
5:40 I played midnight release, and no, people did not think that KKR was good, the casual reddit hivemind thought he was, and Nintendo listened and nerfed him when he didn't need to be nerfed at all. I think the whole holding neutral B at ledge because it was quite literally covering every option was kinda boring and lame, and I'm glad they shortened how long it could be held for that fact, but either way, "people" are just vocal minority.
The REAL opinion in early ultimate was that chrom was broken because he could win every game if he got a stock up, pikachu was broken for no-one-knows what reason, and inking was broken because of ink. that was what "people" thought.
The lack of drift DI, the endlag of 10 frames to wavedashing and hitfalling being off is not doing 2 any favors. Also give it time and people might finally wake up about bubbleshields being attrocious game design.Rivals 2 is anti rivals its not even funny at this point.
What about bubbleshields is bad game design?
Okay iv played the beta its not that bad like come on
@@fdsaa Its a free defensive block with no downsides really. Even if it gets weaker it regenerates back super fast. Its usually large as well and covers every possible angle of aggression by just holding a button down. Its the antithesis of an interesting defensive options and is op as sin. One day more might realize that bubble shields were a mistake even Rivals 2 made them op as sin by allowing powershielding making parrying worhtless for a good amount of times. To sum it up Bubble shields do way too much for no resources as a defensive mechanic and has no downside like other options in neutral.
@@garf6748 It is though i mean it doesn't feel like an evolution of rivals or a sequel. Its feels like a worse project M. Rivals Drift DI added so much deph to punish game and escaping pressure and combos. Wavedashing not being as freeflow as 1 hurts general movement. Bubbleshields don't belong in platfighters and Dan's take on them is no better than smash's so in other words its too good and rewards defensive play too much. Ledge options don't seem like its adding anything to the game so far and hitstun looks too weak in comparison to rivals 1 but drift DI would make the game far more interesting alone also Pratfalling feels wrong in 2. If you like 2 though be my guest but i will stick with 1 and workshop and PM stuff over this when i play a platfighter and with combo devils possibly becoming a thing and doing what i would want from a platfighter i got even less reason to want to touch something i have been iffy on since the reveals of it being more like smash and less like rivals.
pm2
It's not fine, the combos aren't hype