5 More WORST Matchups In Smash Ultimate
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2021
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Игры
Min min vs half the cast, pika vs half the cast, G&W vs half the cast
Also palu and zss
palu bro
@@vihaan5734 yeah I know but pika G&W and Min min invalidate so easily with only a few moves, while palu just top tiers on them, you can say the same with palu as you can joker.
@@pmahcgop6693 I mean that's the reason they are top tier mate
@@pmahcgop6693 palu can invalidate a decent chunk of the cast with very few moves. Actually most players use only about 3% of her moves anyway lol
sheik neutral is actually one of the best in the game what the hell are you guys smoking
Sheik has one of the best neutrals in the game. Low damage per hit doesn't make the neutral worse
its like,,, but the power of individual hits is a good thing! the low damage and knockback makes extremely safe moves like fair and nair combo into like everything. i think that it misses the point that, you hit people more than once, and even after your combo is done, you are still left in a hugely advantageous position
Yea but the only real problem with sheik is consistency
Oh but yoshi heavy armor do be annoying af for sheik lol
@@sullivanish Im not saying this matchup is even or winning for sheik, I still think she loses
@@Migota_ that’s fair… I honestly just hit the part in the video when making that comment lol
As a Banjo main, the "Banjo vs Villager/Isabelle" matchup is simply heart-wrenching. Simply because Banjo relies a LOT on his grenade in neutral (stage control, zoning, combos, covering your landing, recovery...), and just one pocket is enough to cripple you from your most important arsenal.
ONE pocket, and you are Guhu'ed.
It's like the plant match-up all over again
I need to practice it more.
When i take it. They usually spam eggs.
Any advise on this mu?
@@thepowerhouse5655 hehe
Actually...Banjos worst match up has to be Joker
@@Brandon_4272 sound accurate
"Sheik had a below average neutral, why you ask?" *names a bunch of shit that is either lies or has nothing to do with neutral*
I actually can’t with this channel anymore. First they say that “grounded mobility doesn’t matter” and now they’re trying to say that sheiks neutral is “average at best”.
And well, Little-Mac mains says that his worst matchup is Peach and Pikachu, not Pac-Man (altough that one is also awful). Little mac's main weakness is being combo food from juggles and those combos ending with his stock rather easily due to poor recovery, and both Peach and Pikachu excell on combos and edgeguards.
And seriously, Sheik's neutral is amazing, rivaling the ones from Mario and Pikachu (Basically a top 5 neutral), is just that she's awful at racking up damage because she would be broken otherwhise considering she has a frame data as good as the Mario Bros.
It's clear which channel did his researches (Poppt1) and which channel didn't (this one).
The put steve in b tier and corrin in d tier. How stupid is that?
it’s actually getting unbearable to watch these videos at this point lmfao
Sheik's needles alone have a better neutral than a third of the roster. Low damage and small hitboxes doesn't mean a bad neutral. Unless you're going to tell me Joker's neutral is bad too. While it's true that trading isn't good for her, that doesn't mean that her neutral is bad, it means you're supposed to stop mashing attack and use her movement and needles to force an opening. The problem with the yoshi matchup isn't that she sucks at neutral, it's that yoshi specifically is hard to open up for her bc he's got framedata that rivals hers, eggs, and doesn't care about needles as much
Finally someone who understands that just because you do 3 damage per attack doesnt mean your bad when your moves are like all frame 2 thank you
they never said that sheik's neutral is bad, it's just better than average but not ''amazing''
@@kimotokirby1601 Which is just wrong, it's definitely amazing
@@Noot_Penguin I Guess they mean that, since sheik has small hitboxes and little damage, she will be losing neutral to yoshi all the time (at least I think so)
@@kimotokirby1601 no, they dont mean that. they just dont understand smash lmao
Sheik’s neutral is average? Her whole thing is that she can win almost every neutral interaction. The trade-off is low damage, but that’s only on individual hits. She has lots of very long combos that rack up damage.
But yoshi can easily armor through those combos
Yeah, Yoshi definatly wins against Shiek. I was confused that they said that Shiek’s neutral was “average”
Alright, who the hell said Sheik has a mediocre neutral?
"But her low damage per hit and honest hitboxes tend to hold it back."
First of all, damage per hit doesn't matter in neutral but everybody already knows that. And the honest hitboxes are a characteristic shared with characters with good neutral games and isn't nearly enough to make it average.
I thought this channel had improved tbh
what made you think that?
Olimar loses to Zelda!
*Shows Olimar beating the shit out of her*
But remember beating someone up in a fight for a bit doesn't equate to winning the fight. Lol
@@chitowner3128 Yeah, it was just funny to me
@@Yunobolt zelda olimar is defo not olimars worst MU by a mile
@@chitowner3128 Ven the Zelda lost this set 0-2 LOL
@@schniblegrib4311 Dabuz disagrees with you.
This dude literally said, “let’s take a look at the worst matchups in the game” and then when talking about Zelda v Olimar, he says, “this may not be one of the worst matchups in the game, but it’s really hard!”
If it’s not one of the worst, they WHY is it here? If being a bad matchup is all it took to get on this list, then maybe this list should be an hour or 2 longer
The point of the series is more to cover any obscure matchups that can be difficult for interesting reasons. We don’t really think it would be very entertaining to just say a bunch of bottom vs top tier matchups.
low damage per hit has nothing to do with neutral
it affects the risk/reward ratio which makes characters behave differently
It also reduces shield pressure and makes trading less favourable, which can greatly effect neutral
@@mayauppstad9883 all of sheik's aerials for neutral are -4 or better on shield. N-air -3, F-air *-2,* B-air -4.
I think her safety on shield is fine.
@@DaDandyman hey, i think so too. But i read the argument as being more about whether or not damage had any affect on neutral, which i think it does. Sheik is fine
@@mayauppstad9883
Damage effects neutral by creating threats. If you have a ranged move that does a bunch of damage, people are going to play around it.
People are also scared of, for example, Sheik jettisoning herself across the stage, stuffing your moves out with her superior frame data, comboing you, and ledge trapping you for 3 hours.
More damage would improve her neutral I suppose but it's not all that relevant so long as you have a means of influencing people's neutral decisions in your favor.
Greninja overwhelms Ganondorf super hard with his fast mobility and deadly combos. I think it's just as bad as Ganon's matchup against Pikachu if I'm being real honest here.
Dont every charictar do that?
@@dagoodboyvids336 nah. Ganon has some decent burst options, especially nair. Also there are characters with worse frame data
@@ojutay8375 hmm i soppose. But im speaking in terms of worst collection of traits/ weaknesses overall.
@@ojutay8375 specifically dedede
Zelda's phantom has killed so many of my pikmin... Rest in peace little buddies :(
Seriously, tell me about it, I’ve lost more Pikmin playing against a Zelda than any I’ve lost playing Pikmin games
The knockback buff from Zelda's phantom and side b makes it worse now
Plant vs jigglypuff is like +2 or even 3 plant favor.
Take a character whos kit is built on anti-airs, pancakes, does a ton of damage on shields and kills early as fuck. Then put that character against one whos always in the air, hits high, dies when their shield is broken and dies early in general and you have an easy match-up.
I knew Robin Olimar was horrible for Robin but I didn't realize it was THAT bad it sounds fucking 80:20 for Oli
as an ICs player, I completely agree that Hero is an almost unplayable matchup lol so much fun
I'd like to suggest another Bad Match Up for Olimar.
I think that Kirby excells against Olimar due to the fact that Kirby's Copy Ability completely overpowers any Pikmin that Olimar throws. Since Kirby has plenty of ways to combo into inhale, he doesn't have too much trouble obtaining the OP Copy Ability. This means that Kirby is capable of forcing Olimar to Approach as every Pikmin Kirby throws will beat any that Olimar tries to throw. Kirby is also really good at getting Pikmin off of himself with moves like Nair. His Up B is also good at keeping Olimar back and helps block Pikmin throws as well.
I kind of disagree.
While Kirby's Copy Ability vs. Olimar is really good, actually landing the inhale in the first place is really difficult.
Kirby is just too slow, and Olimar has plenty of tools for walling out Kirby and keeping him away, from his smash attacks to his faster aerials.
Comments: 1% of people saying to continue the series
99,99% people complaining about Sheik's neutral
The thing about Nayru's Love though is that it has a lot of end lag, so if you use it to get rid of pikmin you'll probably get punished(which happens in some of the clips here).
Isabelle vs hero is one of the worst
Im a villy but i hate it too.
As a Yoshi Main, I'm not surprise Yoshi-Shiek is bad for Shiek.
Not that bad but logically: It's a combo character vs an Anti Combo Character
bonk is so good at this narration! i really enjoy his teaching
Thank you!
I would say Steve vs Little Mac is bad aswell.. Poor Peanut in Coinbox was being bullied by blocks 😭
I stand by my point that sonic has a unloosable matchup against Gannon
As a little mac main I highly agree that pac vs Mac is a nightmare
Kirby vs Min Min. She out-ranges everything he wants to do, can keep him out without really trying, and completely forces Kirby to fight on her terms. The only two saving graces that I see are 1) Copy ability can be a life-saver here, perhaps even more so than against heavy zoners like Samus or Link, and 2) If Kirby can somehow get in, his combo game will eat Min Min alive.
Kirby can at least edgeguard min min really hard
@@YOSSARIAN313 This too.
If we're talking about olimar matchups, we need to talk about mii swordfighter. Olimar basically doesn't have pikmin in the matchup.
That's losing, he's actually worse against link. Bad oos options to punish nair, gets outranged and dies earlier, bomb itself, can ledge guard him pretty well (which is his weakness). Everytime I play against link, I always feel like I don't have a shield against him and I know I don't
Lucas vs Ganondorf.
One PK Thunder off stage and Ganon dies at like 20%.
Lucas's biggest strenght is his edgeguarding ability.
love this video series.
Since you mentioned Olimar matchups where he excels at Robin, but sucks at Zelda, mention Zelda vs. Greninja as I heard Greninja is her worst opponent.
Howdy, Zelda main here. Greninja is pretty bad, yeah. ZSS is infinitely worse though.
@@thezestiestnugget3980 I’m guessing you would disagree with Poppit’s video.
@@thezestiestnugget3980 as a greninja second, I enjoy playing against Zelda because my down B and neutral B get way more value than usual lol
Funny that I main Zelda and have Robin as a pocket, cause I use both of the characters that are part of the Olimar matchup
Yoshi Vs Puff, Dr.Mario Vs Shulk, Ness VS G&W or Lucina, Samus vs KIrby
As a puff main, THANK YOU for exposing the Yoshi matchup. While puff usually isn’t bad against fellow brawlers, Yoshi was almost made to hard counter puff with his aerial armor, vertical launch power, and his fast nair
Puff daddy and puff just struggles to catch him in general. Yoshi can take massive advantage of puff’s terrible vertical mobility, especially when he is the only character in the game to have better horizontal aerial mobility
For the two Olimar match ups you were saying how uneven the matchup was but kept showing clips of the “disadvantaged” one winning neutral the whole time.
I was looking for this comment
I think it was to show how hard the loser has to capitalize on what little leverage they have in their bad mu's. There were defs some parts of the clips I saw the characters getting exposed for their short comings
Still waiting for WiiFit vs Villager/Isabelle. I swear a WiiFit main like me curses this matchup. They can just take away your soccer ball forever.
I feel this. You basically dont use soccer ball that much in this matchup, not to mention they can steal Sun Salutation and Villager has some projectiles that can stop Wii Fit's projectiles too and being a short character that Wii Fit is god awful against
Daaang.....and I thought Pac-Man had it bad against Isabelle
Hungrybox called the Ike vs jiggly puff MU "actual hell"
Robin vs any projectile spammers (Including Links, and *especially* the Belmonts) except maybe snake, and all rush down characters or swordie with better hitboxes and less end lag. (so like 70% of the cast)
Min min vs little Mac is free for min min if the two are on a same skill level
Or the stage is final destination
Only slightly Min Min favor, fd is definitely hard to fight Min Min though
This is why not having a secondary can be brutal in tournaments
This man just does not understand the concept of neutral
As a Robin main im glad not too many people play olimar
5 matchups they forgot (bold=win):
Donkey kong vs *game and watch*
Ness vs *shulk*
Mewtwo vs *falco*
Pichu vs *snake*
Incineroar vs *sonic*
I sitll cannot believe that they did not include Meta Knight VS K Rool.
Isabelle VS Hero is a total nightmare
For which character exactly??
@@Spingerex Isabelle
@@finalmix4375 I really hate fighting against Hero,the RNG is pretty bullshit as it is,so the only thing I can think of for Isabelle to even stand a chance is her Pocket gimmick.
Everyone is little mac’s worst matchup
nah little Mac has a good match up vs heavy
@@paulakroy2635 im pretty sure a lot of characters have a good matchup against heavies too
I main wii for trainer and Isabella and villager are a hard counter . Once they catch your volleyball they just hold it.have you ever tried to play wii fit without a using header? Lol
Best thumb ever 🤣🤣🤣
Snake vs G&W. Snake can’t use B, side B, down B and even F smash for fear of bucket. no B reverse is risky and thus have to deal with G&W up air. g&w can easily edge guard cypher
Except that snake has boxing tools. B reverse Grenade still works especially if gnw is spamming up air
I can tell you as an ICs main that the issue with Hero isn’t Zoning tools, practically half the roster has that. The solution to dealing with zoners is to simply not approach and stagger your Neutral B until you’ve crept enough distance to go for a squall or aerial, which is especially effective considering Hero’s Normals are hot garbage.
Personally my biggest issue with him is Bounce, which basically negates Blizzard which is one of their best and most consistent combo tools in their kit, Jab Desync blizzard up-tilt up air alone does around 50-60% and a few other consistent blizzard based combos can take your opponent to 95% or even death.
The entire point of the Ice Climbers is Subpar Neutral and bad disadvantage traded for one of the best advantage states in the game, so if you can learn to make your opponent approach you, you’ll stop having issues with zoning characters.
Hero's normals are what?
Min Min vs Little Mac, its my actual living nightmare
MK vs ZSS, an idea for the next video of the worst matchups. *MK B META*
Give You some ideas, Mario & Dr Mario vs Shulk, DK vs G&W and Jigglypuff vs Ike
Yeah I said Jiggly vs Ike as well. Hungrybox called it "actual hell" 😂
Dk v Palutena is the most unplayable matchup in the game. I would rather play a Steve, mythra and Kazuya simultaneously
I’m late but that Thumbnail is perfect.
Olimar destroys robin
As a Robin main I can confirm. I hate the Olimar matchup with a passion
Mew2 vs Falco is a nightmare for the legendary pokemon.
I've never fought a MewTwo with Falco. I play Mewtwo some myself, but I am a Falco main. Can you explain the reason why? Is it because of the hitbox and float I floatiness? Is it M2's aerials framedata? Or is it just Falco down B?
@@tigerfalco more like falco can combo mew2 easily and his edguard with fair,laser and dair are potent even for mew2 incredible recovery. Mew2 floatiness allow falco to combo him for day and his multihit are a pain to deal with. Yes mew2 can abuse his speed and framedate over falco but it doesn't matter because mew2 whole neutral play around SB which falco pretty much nullify with laser and side b.
I main mewtwo and play falco, on paper this might look bad. In my opinion mewtwo can combo falco just as easy as falco and to mewtwo. The only thing here is is the horrendous tail hurtbox.
The matchups mewtwo can’t handle well are swordfighters, mewtwo has decent range, and shadowball, but he gets easily beat in terms of range by a sword.
Hero also has bounce, which completely removes you’re most important neutral tool for quite a bit.
One thing is small characters, he gets combo-ed by pichu, and such, and it’s harder to hit his basically guaranteed KO from disable (mind me has a low amount of lag for a move that does what it does, it’s basically a weaker shield break) mewtwo can get around small characters with shadow ball. And he can easily KO with a fair at good %s. He can mix up his shadow balls with b reverses and wave bounces.
@@francoisturcotte3982 I think you explained it better than mew haha
@@ShinyMew76 mew2 does decent vs swordies. Most of them are even. He does okay vs pika and pichu and he beats hero
Pikuori (olimar) vs zelda is even actually. He could just bait out zeldas attacks, which is something that he's best at doing. Neutral b has endlag so they can punish it after baiting it. Down b does block pikmin but honestly, he could just throw above it to have them latch on zelda. He can decide when he wants to throw purples at her. Oli can clearly outcamp her because of this. Sure, she can edge guard him well but you can do that with any other character due to him lacking offstage options, which is his weakness of course. And no, reflectors doesn't really affect him as much since most of them would end up latching on him and he could just d tilt them away or use whistle. Unless you're playing as falco since his comes out fast and has less endlag. But yeah, zelda is far from being oli's worst mu. If anything, link is his worst mu (adult link btw)
Bowser vs Kazuya. Kazuya can just use all it's combos that is easy to juggle and hit the big Bowser. And Kazuya is also very strong. Kazuya destroys him.
Mii gunner vs sonic is the worst matchup
Change my mind
Dr. Mario VS Min Min
What I think what is the worst matchup in the game is Min Min vs Little Mac in my opinion
Take a look at the yoshi vs shulk matchup (it's really bad for yoshi)
Me, a Pac-Man main that lost 2-0 to a little mac in the little mac's first tournament :'|
dr mario vs shulk
A really bad matchup is K Rool vs Steve. Heavyweight=Easy Combos and K Rool Offstage= Get Anviled to death.
Why did they put in a Peanut game that he won?
There are always exceptions XD
Number 1: ganon vs random
Ganon just has no chance of winning if the opponent doesn't make mistakes, the only way he can do anything is to read your opponents
(This is exagerating but still.)
Number 1 is actually Pikachu vs Ganondorf.
What about Incineroar vs the Belmonts? Easily Incins worst matchup
Who would be a good counter pick to Mythra/Pyra (More specifically Pyra)? My friend mains Pyra and i'm tired of getting stomped
I use captain falcon against pythra and ir works out pretty well. His ledgeguarding is really good and his high mobility can keep up with mythra pretty well. And he's not a lightweight character so he can survive a bit longer against pyra
Ridley does surprisingly well against Mythra and basically beats Pyra. He can gimp both of their recoveries. Just have to keep in mind he's a big boy so you will be hit by things when you feel like you shouldn't
I use steve and just play aggressive as possible
Pikachu, diddy kong
Pikachu vs. Dedede is disgusting
Snake vs jiggly puff being impossible for jiggly puff and snake vs game and watch being Exceptionally hard for snake
I think Ryu vs ROB would be bad because of ROB down b and runaway.
Give us doc vs shulk, one of the most horrid matchups there are
I hate that Mac is really bad because I fucking love punch out and Mac being bad makes me sad
You can see how non existend their research is when they say Sheik has an average neutral at best.
Bro, it is literally the best one in the game. Low damage output isn't something that makes the neitral bad, and Sheik has low damge per move, strings and combos do over average damage.
Yes Sheiks worst matchup is Yoshi, but that is one bad matchup out of like 10, there are other characters struggling much more against Yoshi and you picked sheik for whatever reason.
Lil Mac Pac man is only a bad matchup to people who don't play mac
DK vs G&W
Other terrible matchups:
Yoshi>Puff
Pichu>Roy
Richter>Icies
ZSS>Junior
Shulk>Doc
Min Min lmao
Pika>Wii Fit
G&W>Falcon
Luigi>Mac
Ganon lol
As a Roy co main main the pichu matchup is 1000000x worse than the pika matchup. Pretty much unwinnable if pichu isn’t getting outplayed.
Also why is Luigi so good vs mac? That isn’t too terrible in my eyes.
@@Simon-hs7ik Luigi is the quintessential grappler, and Mac is almost always grounded. A grab at any percent can lead to death, and what makes it worse than a matchup like DK is that Mac can’t really punish Luigi that badly because of Cyclone and the fact that his main weakness, his bad recovery, is hard to mess with as Mac. Also Luigi has fast and strong aerials so even if Mac can avoid grabs it’s so hard to box with him. Luigi struggles with Swords, Projectiles and good edgeguarding and Mac has none of that. Oh and cyclone and all of luigis long lasting aerials and whatnot destroy Mac’s recovery, especially when he’s off stage at a low angle which Luigi can force pretty easily.
Min Min apparently loses to Sheik, Meta Knight, and Jigglypuff.
@@TheSharkAnt yeah she struggles to hit them and gets obliterated in disadvantage
I know you didn't list Olimar vs Zelda as one of the worst MUs in Ult.
I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on that mu, it's so cringe imo but we defs have different play styles so there's probs something you're doing that I'm not
@@seanpowers1014 If you look up me vs Ven I beat him recently at MSM
@@MyranSSB yeah I even think they put one of your sets vs them in this video. My main point in being asked about the mu is how much we have to vary up our game plan to deal with her as her defensive option is a strong reflector with a hit box and her ledge trapping is quite potent
@@seanpowers1014 she can't approach well at all. Just take it slow and exploit her inability to do so. It's not a MU you rush
Olimar vs Hero
Ike vs Lucina, Chrom or Roy
Kazuya vs G&W, plz. That matchup sucks 4 the Iron Fist of Darkness.
Did you see riddles vs maister at summit today?
It sucks for gnw because he is the true iron fist of darkness(lol)
Surprised that greninja vs snake isn't here. Snakes grenades invalid most of my approach opinions, combos, and neural.
drive.google.com/open?id=1XEvQtB5ZimO7v-YNxIK1stpSNxWqJUkb I recommend watching this if you are having trouble with the matchup
once you get good it'll happen a little less
One matchup i think is viciously one-sided is a weird mid tier one, King K. Rool vs Jigglypuff. As a duo main of both, I think Jigglypuff absolutely destroys the croc. Yeah he has a solid zoning game against puff, but all it takes is ONE POUND to bring him from 0 to 60 or straight up death. The tldr is that puff gets rewarded so very VERY much for spamming pound and our ferocious fatass friend can’t really do much about it.
Your voice reminds me of Falcon from GameRanx.
Plant samus
Villager/Falco feels so bad for Villager. I think Falco beats Villager worse than the other two spacies.
More than Fox? I mean sure Fox doesn't have the stagger on neutral B, but he's much faster and should be able to apply pressure easily by just running up to them
@@tigerfalco I don't think Fox is particularly a good MU either, I just think Falco is worse because Falco can cover a lot of Villager's bases more easily. Falco's Reflector is one of the toughest anti-zoning moves imo to deal with because of its versatility. Falco's up tilt makes approaching with down air after shooting lloid rocket almost impossible depending on stage. Falco can also follow Villager in almost any disadvantageous spot as opposed to Fox who can juggle Villager off the top but probably wouldn't bother to follow him past the ledge. Fox's rushdown game is strong, but I think Villager can work around that with good microspacing.
@@MrJma26 makes sense
As a Sheik main fighting anyone is going to be challenging regardless lol
Pfft, I'm pretty Sure Ganondorf is easy. Right?
No, yoshi is exceptionally hard because he armors through your combos like most other characters can’t. Besides the fact that he does more damage per hit with moves that still have good frame data, sheik will realistically do less damage to yoshi per neutral win than against most other characters
@@g0ddish434 big characters are the most fun to kick around
@@KevSB07 I haven't come across any good yoshi players and the hardest AI is annoying at best
@@shinobiighost6946 that doesn't disprove anything i said. because you haven't fought a competent yoshi and only play against cpus apparently
Little has a really bad disadvantage so any characters with good disadvantage are his worst matchups
LMAO RIP MY BOY KJ
RIP Your boy KJ..
What happened to me? And why am I your boy?
Love the video! If you make another one of these we gotta see Mario vs Shulk man that matchup sucks.
@Omer Omer exactly lol not only does it feel impossible to get in against Shulk, but once you do get in he just uses Shield Mondado to escape your combo. Not only that but he can just run off fair and kill you at 0%.
OLIMAR VS WOLF THO?
Neutral b is the reason olimar is bad against zelda because it reflects pikmin
Hey Bonk, if Yoshi is so easy at top level then why don't you main him and top 8 majors/win stacked regional tournaments like Meme? *Edit* Not trying to be harsh but I'm so tired of Yoshi hate that I'm dropping the character...
Lol
@@BONKfrys I really like this series. Keep up the good work. But for real, u think I should drop the tax evading Dino?
@@colinhay1666 Play whoever you enjoy bro F the haters. Everyone says I play air-Luigi, but that just means I'm shnice
@@BONKfrys True. Your MK is clean though. Thanks for helping me through that little mini crisis of mine 😅 lol
have you ever seen olimar vs kirby? kirby becomes better olimar
Rosalina v Ness. Gravitational Pull wrecks his recovery.
this ain't smash 4 anymore
gravity vs pk thunder is overrated af good nesses will use their double jumps and airdodges wisely so they don't have to commit to pk thunder unless they're thrown too far offstage in which case they'd be gimped by virtually anything anyway
it's slight loss since rosa still outranges ness quite a bit but ness combos and kills her big light hurtbox very well and pk fire is great at keeping luma away
The worst match up is Joker and K. Rool
Olimar is dead