Loved seeing all three of you together on one podcast! Phil you are right about Brothers in Boots on the Clover Oak RUclips channel. Mike and Jeff are putting out great boot and leather knowledge in every episode!
Dale seems like a great guy, you can tell he is a genuine enthusiast. CXL is definitely not overrated, easy to take care of, patinas great if you don't do anything to it, and the comfort is great from the start. My favorite boot is the 403 despite all the high end brands I have tried. I do feel Aldens are a little pricey.
I know that Chromexcel does scratch easily but I love the way it feels, how nicely it shines up and how tough it is, I really like my CXL boots. Dale is such a cool character, his enthusiasm is infectious.
Thanks so much for the shout-out Phil! ❤ You guys came across my YT feed a week or two ago because of the brain tanning episode. I've definitely got a lot of episodes to watch now. Great content for sure.
Love Horween leather especially Chromexcel but then I was born and raised in Chicago…! And my favorite pair of boots are my two Alden Indy’s… Just the truth, the comfort of the Alden’s make them my favorites… One pair is the earth reverse chamois and the other a special Ealdwine matte gray suede… Love them both 💯👍
You are right, this podcast should be called "Lessons in Subjectivity". Addressing CXL: all leathers have different properties and qualities, good and bad. If you don't like some of the perceived negatives, then buy a different leather I say. You cannot reasonably expect CXL to behave like Shell Cordovan, or Kudu, or even Suede. Yes, there will possibly be similarities, but in the end CXL is what it is. And you purchase it for what it is, not for what it is not. In the evolution of boot ownership, most will have at least one pair of CXL - good, bad, or indifferent. As far as Alden, you are paying for the name and experience and membership in the "club". Are they a good boot - yes. But that's what they are about, being a good boot. Are they a value, especially with other makers - Grant Stone being one of many who are using leathers just as refined and of quality, and who are exceeding the build quality Alden now displays. So, no they are not a value, as much as they are a standard to be met or exceeded, and value coming in by how much is saved by spending less, or gained by moving UP the scale to, say, Carmina, Crockett and Jones or others. Do they make a good fitting boot, yes, but so do others because you land where the lasts fit you best, Alden is not by far the only maker with great lasts. And there are makers even other than Grant Stone who exceed Alden in build quality. I second Nick's statement that you are buying MORE than just the boot from Alden, and if that is worth it to you to be in the "CLUB" then have at it.
My crimson diesels have amazing patina. Takes a lot of use to get there but it’s so comfortable, tough, shines up. And the color really deepens with use. I don’t mind the piping at all, when it occurs.
Weird I think my comment got removed because I put links to where I looked for info so I'm going to repost the jist of what I said without that. I think saying that Alden is "overpriced" is complicated because it depends on how we are defining overpriced. If we are considering it from the perspective of consumer value aka how good a boot you can get ignoring the cost of production and only considering what you are paying for that product then yes I think you get a similar quality of boot for cheaper elsewhere. However if we are talking overpriced as the profit margin Alden is making on selling it's products relative to the cost to produce those products (where it is currently based just outside of Boston one of the most expensive cities in America) I think there's a solid argument that Alden is actually priced fairly reasonably. Alden is making boots in an area with a CoL of roughly 4 times higher than Xiamen where Grant Stone makes their boots. That is 1.3-1.5 times higher than the cost of living in Spokane Washington where most of the PNW boots are centered, 1.3-1.5 times the CoL in Minneapolis, Minnesota roughly where Red Wing is, and several times higher than Leon, Mexico. Obviously that means their employees have to be paid an equivalent amount higher to maintain a similar standard of living. That also means the end product will have to cost that much more to pay those employees assuming all other variables are held constant. So is Alden overpriced in that they are charging you an unreasonable amount relative to their cost of production? Probably not. I think it's fairly likely that they make equivalent or less profit on a per boot basis than Grant Stone does. That said the sticker shock is real. If you don't care about a company's costs or where they operate and only care about the quality of the product you get and price you pay as a consumer there is a good reason to choose something made overseas or made in the boonies where CoL is low.
For what it's worth I thought your analysis was VERY well considered, though it would REALLY shock me if Alden's per-unit margin was less than GS's. Not saying it's not possible, I don't think there's a way to know for sure. For me personally it's just a thought exerciae, since at the moment I'm still learning, and the Alden Indy has never popped off the page for me, and I was forsaken by GS when they decided that tall people at the margins weren't part of their business plan (They don't produce anything in a size larger than US13, and their Brass Boot in an E width is about half a size too small for my Brannock 13.5 E, higher volume feet). I think perhaps an even bigger factor is that the majority of Aldens are sold through brick and mortar channels. So when they set pricing, there has to be sufficient margin for Alden to get theirs, ALONG WITH these high-end menswear shops like Ealdwine Raleigh that have rock solid, long standing relationships and have ultimately built the bridges between Alden and their loyal, largely affluent customer base. As someone gearing up for a dispute over a restocking fee with Truman (Who dinged me for the fee even though I kept a $480 pair of their JWFs in a different size as my first pair of "Good" boots), the idea of a local brick & mortar to visit where you can get any answers you need prior to purchase has value, at least in the early stages of learning about this stuff. With these guys it's different, none have any need of a liason to answer questions, they all know more about boots and leather than just about anyone. So when Alden's yearly price increases are far outstripping an already high inflation rate, that's a recipe for some sour feelings among long time loyalists like Dale and this crew... At the end of the day, there's no Doc Martens type of problem with Alden that is eroding their sales. Last I checked the extra profit taking they're doing isn't hurting them or their retailer network. As long as that's the case, I expect the price increases (And the understandable grumbling) to continue unabated. Cheers all. 🥃😀
Alden vs. Grant Stone: When I go overseas for work, I WANT to take my Grant Stone Ottawas, but only the Indys work for comfort when I'm walking 5-10 miles a day. Grant Stone lacks refinement compared to Aldens. It's like they duplicated Alden --- even improved on Alden's materials --- but lack the "special sauce." Ironically, one reason Grant Stone's are less comfortable is the thickness of the CXL they use. The shafts haven't broken in with two year's use on my Brass Boot.
I love chromexcel, but I really love doubleshot lol. The lack of refinement I'm doubleshot I think is what I like actually. I do hope to get some cxl from whites though for a better comparison of the two someday as my x2shot is also a pair of whites.
I recently viewed a post by a gun collector. He stated that one should never use chrome tannages for holsters as the chemicals used react negatively with certain metals in fine/collector sidearms. My first question is this true? My second question is if there is some truth to this, what other scenarios would be contraindicated to use chrome tannages that might react with what they are being used for (maybe jewelry)?
Lol ive been catching up on Dale's recommendation, and i instantly sat down and watched this one from start to finish, but i also did that for the stridewise episode
Maybe we need to see leathers compared, sort of like put chromexcel side by side some doubleshot, and then compare and contrast the properties? Also it's hard for chromexcel to be overrated when I think it's the best all-purpose leather. Might not be the best for every application, but it's pretty elite in most. I don't think it can be beat on boots and camp mocs.
Love the podcast, enough that it’s one of the few things I take time to leave comments. With regard to niche interests, algorithms, social media influence, and media consumption, it’s really easy to find yourself in a very narrow wormhole with limited perspective. Within Bootworld, female perspectives seem to be sorely lacking (i.e. 40 episodes of FGP, no women guests). Some ideas from stitchdown podcast would be bootmakers like Sarah Guerin, Lisa Sorrell, Flora Knight, Shauna White Bear, and Adele Williamson or cobblers like Lorena Agolli, Tess Gobeil and Ariss Grutter. But one person with a really unique perspective that you might have a unique connection to would be Natalie Horween. Would she be willing to join for an episode?
Dale is so great. The Alden lasts are worth the extra money. Grant Stone's are built on a loafer last and they don't have enough toe room for me vertically.
The Bootverse is still stirred up a bit over a popular RUclipsr holding basically a rugged dress shoe, the Indy, to the same standard as a smokejumper or lineman PNW boot. He got lotsa clicks. And, his team is so skilled at algorithming I can't keep his channel out of my feed no matter what I do. Alden would be 2/3 the price if they manufactured in Asia.
I agree with RA though that given the choice, most of us would prefer to spend an extra $50 (or whatever it is) to get rid of the cheap materials and subpar quality control. I think most of us want to see Alden succeed and be their best rather than fail.
@Kretikos I disagree with his disingenuous take. It's a dress shoe FFS. The "I wore them six months and they're falling apart!" vid on the Color 8 shell Indys took the cake. They ARE NOT Danner Mountain Lights and aren't intended for that type of use. At the end of the day, we all vote with our wallets.
@@exvan3571 What is disingenuous about his take? They renamed it the Indy, after Indiana Jones...an adventurer that runs from boulders in caves, goes on truck and tank chases, etc...and it fell apart after he kicked it around his shop and a few trails after a few months. If Alden only sold shoes with "dress" pedigree they would have been bankrupt decades ago. What's disingenuous is Alden selling people an "Indiana Jones" boot for $700 full of shitty materials, not RAs opinion of it.
What an absolute pleasure getting to talk to you guys, thanks so much for having me!!! Was a dream come true
What an epic Podcast. You three chatting flew by. So good. Love the Ancient Aliens reference. 🤙
@@EDHBlvdglad you appreciated that my man 😎
Dale’s enthusiasm for boots, leather, and quality heritage goods is so infectious it’s dangerous for viewers’ wallets 😅
Loved seeing all three of you together on one podcast! Phil you are right about Brothers in Boots on the Clover Oak RUclips channel. Mike and Jeff are putting out great boot and leather knowledge in every episode!
Dale seems like a great guy, you can tell he is a genuine enthusiast. CXL is definitely not overrated, easy to take care of, patinas great if you don't do anything to it, and the comfort is great from the start. My favorite boot is the 403 despite all the high end brands I have tried. I do feel Aldens are a little pricey.
Love to see Dale on the podcast!
Also, I really like Jake's recent CXL video over at Almost Vintage Style.
All the legends in one podcast!!! 🤯
I don’t care what anyone says the look of natural Chromexcel will never not look incredible to me.
Great episode! I really enjoyed it!
I know that Chromexcel does scratch easily but I love the way it feels, how nicely it shines up and how tough it is, I really like my CXL boots. Dale is such a cool character, his enthusiasm is infectious.
Thanks so much for the shout-out Phil! ❤
You guys came across my YT feed a week or two ago because of the brain tanning episode. I've definitely got a lot of episodes to watch now. Great content for sure.
Love Horween leather especially Chromexcel but then I was born and raised in Chicago…! And my favorite pair of boots are my two Alden Indy’s… Just the truth, the comfort of the Alden’s make them my favorites… One pair is the earth reverse chamois and the other a special Ealdwine matte gray suede… Love them both 💯👍
Well done All! Three of my favorite boot/leather guys on one podcast. Love it!
I love your podcast, guys. Thank you for taking the time to make these.
Love dale next we need teik on
Great idea
You are right, this podcast should be called "Lessons in Subjectivity". Addressing CXL: all leathers have different properties and qualities, good and bad. If you don't like some of the perceived negatives, then buy a different leather I say. You cannot reasonably expect CXL to behave like Shell Cordovan, or Kudu, or even Suede. Yes, there will possibly be similarities, but in the end CXL is what it is. And you purchase it for what it is, not for what it is not. In the evolution of boot ownership, most will have at least one pair of CXL - good, bad, or indifferent. As far as Alden, you are paying for the name and experience and membership in the "club". Are they a good boot - yes. But that's what they are about, being a good boot. Are they a value, especially with other makers - Grant Stone being one of many who are using leathers just as refined and of quality, and who are exceeding the build quality Alden now displays. So, no they are not a value, as much as they are a standard to be met or exceeded, and value coming in by how much is saved by spending less, or gained by moving UP the scale to, say, Carmina, Crockett and Jones or others. Do they make a good fitting boot, yes, but so do others because you land where the lasts fit you best, Alden is not by far the only maker with great lasts. And there are makers even other than Grant Stone who exceed Alden in build quality. I second Nick's statement that you are buying MORE than just the boot from Alden, and if that is worth it to you to be in the "CLUB" then have at it.
My crimson diesels have amazing patina. Takes a lot of use to get there but it’s so comfortable, tough, shines up. And the color really deepens with use. I don’t mind the piping at all, when it occurs.
Weird I think my comment got removed because I put links to where I looked for info so I'm going to repost the jist of what I said without that. I think saying that Alden is "overpriced" is complicated because it depends on how we are defining overpriced. If we are considering it from the perspective of consumer value aka how good a boot you can get ignoring the cost of production and only considering what you are paying for that product then yes I think you get a similar quality of boot for cheaper elsewhere.
However if we are talking overpriced as the profit margin Alden is making on selling it's products relative to the cost to produce those products (where it is currently based just outside of Boston one of the most expensive cities in America) I think there's a solid argument that Alden is actually priced fairly reasonably. Alden is making boots in an area with a CoL of roughly 4 times higher than Xiamen where Grant Stone makes their boots. That is 1.3-1.5 times higher than the cost of living in Spokane Washington where most of the PNW boots are centered, 1.3-1.5 times the CoL in Minneapolis, Minnesota roughly where Red Wing is, and several times higher than Leon, Mexico. Obviously that means their employees have to be paid an equivalent amount higher to maintain a similar standard of living. That also means the end product will have to cost that much more to pay those employees assuming all other variables are held constant.
So is Alden overpriced in that they are charging you an unreasonable amount relative to their cost of production? Probably not. I think it's fairly likely that they make equivalent or less profit on a per boot basis than Grant Stone does. That said the sticker shock is real. If you don't care about a company's costs or where they operate and only care about the quality of the product you get and price you pay as a consumer there is a good reason to choose something made overseas or made in the boonies where CoL is low.
For what it's worth I thought your analysis was VERY well considered, though it would REALLY shock me if Alden's per-unit margin was less than GS's. Not saying it's not possible, I don't think there's a way to know for sure.
For me personally it's just a thought exerciae, since at the moment I'm still learning, and the Alden Indy has never popped off the page for me, and I was forsaken by GS when they decided that tall people at the margins weren't part of their business plan (They don't produce anything in a size larger than US13, and their Brass Boot in an E width is about half a size too small for my Brannock 13.5 E, higher volume feet).
I think perhaps an even bigger factor is that the majority of Aldens are sold through brick and mortar channels. So when they set pricing, there has to be sufficient margin for Alden to get theirs, ALONG WITH these high-end menswear shops like Ealdwine Raleigh that have rock solid, long standing relationships and have ultimately built the bridges between Alden and their loyal, largely affluent customer base.
As someone gearing up for a dispute over a restocking fee with Truman (Who dinged me for the fee even though I kept a $480 pair of their JWFs in a different size as my first pair of "Good" boots), the idea of a local brick & mortar to visit where you can get any answers you need prior to purchase has value, at least in the early stages of learning about this stuff.
With these guys it's different, none have any need of a liason to answer questions, they all know more about boots and leather than just about anyone.
So when Alden's yearly price increases are far outstripping an already high inflation rate, that's a recipe for some sour feelings among long time loyalists like Dale and this crew...
At the end of the day, there's no Doc Martens type of problem with Alden that is eroding their sales. Last I checked the extra profit taking they're doing isn't hurting them or their retailer network. As long as that's the case, I expect the price increases (And the understandable grumbling) to continue unabated.
Cheers all. 🥃😀
Alden vs. Grant Stone: When I go overseas for work, I WANT to take my Grant Stone Ottawas, but only the Indys work for comfort when I'm walking 5-10 miles a day. Grant Stone lacks refinement compared to Aldens. It's like they duplicated Alden --- even improved on Alden's materials --- but lack the "special sauce." Ironically, one reason Grant Stone's are less comfortable is the thickness of the CXL they use. The shafts haven't broken in with two year's use on my Brass Boot.
I love chromexcel, but I really love doubleshot lol. The lack of refinement I'm doubleshot I think is what I like actually. I do hope to get some cxl from whites though for a better comparison of the two someday as my x2shot is also a pair of whites.
the unsung hero of Luos Jiet's indy boot
I recently viewed a post by a gun collector. He stated that one should never use chrome tannages for holsters as the chemicals used react negatively with certain metals in fine/collector sidearms. My first question is this true? My second question is if there is some truth to this, what other scenarios would be contraindicated to use chrome tannages that might react with what they are being used for (maybe jewelry)?
This is true. Some people are also allergic to chrome
I’ve had less qc issues on over 30 pair of Alden than in the 6 pair of Viberg’s I own
Great discussion!
Lol ive been catching up on Dale's recommendation, and i instantly sat down and watched this one from start to finish, but i also did that for the stridewise episode
Great conversation guys!! I love CXL, especially natural roughout. Cheers pals!!
Cheers!
Maybe we need to see leathers compared, sort of like put chromexcel side by side some doubleshot, and then compare and contrast the properties? Also it's hard for chromexcel to be overrated when I think it's the best all-purpose leather. Might not be the best for every application, but it's pretty elite in most. I don't think it can be beat on boots and camp mocs.
Whats your opinion on cxl for jackets, aero for instance.
Cxl is amazing, everyone knows it, it’s accurately rated.
Love the podcast, enough that it’s one of the few things I take time to leave comments. With regard to niche interests, algorithms, social media influence, and media consumption, it’s really easy to find yourself in a very narrow wormhole with limited perspective. Within Bootworld, female perspectives seem to be sorely lacking (i.e. 40 episodes of FGP, no women guests). Some ideas from stitchdown podcast would be bootmakers like Sarah Guerin, Lisa Sorrell, Flora Knight, Shauna White Bear, and Adele Williamson or cobblers like Lorena Agolli, Tess Gobeil and Ariss Grutter. But one person with a really unique perspective that you might have a unique connection to would be Natalie Horween. Would she be willing to join for an episode?
Love this comment.
Start your own female bookmaker podcast. Be an early adopter, make money.
CXL is not overrated.
Dale is so great. The Alden lasts are worth the extra money. Grant Stone's are built on a loafer last and they don't have enough toe room for me vertically.
An idea for Dale... once you get authentic WW2 boots, maybe compare them to reproductions like smwholesale, etc.
He's a shill for Grant Stone. Color me crazy, but I'll pass on the coolie labor made footwear from a country with ICBMs pointed at my house.
The Bootverse is still stirred up a bit over a popular RUclipsr holding basically a rugged dress shoe, the Indy, to the same standard as a smokejumper or lineman PNW boot. He got lotsa clicks. And, his team is so skilled at algorithming I can't keep his channel out of my feed no matter what I do.
Alden would be 2/3 the price if they manufactured in Asia.
I agree with RA though that given the choice, most of us would prefer to spend an extra $50 (or whatever it is) to get rid of the cheap materials and subpar quality control. I think most of us want to see Alden succeed and be their best rather than fail.
@Kretikos I disagree with his disingenuous take. It's a dress shoe FFS.
The "I wore them six months and they're falling apart!" vid on the Color 8 shell Indys took the cake. They ARE NOT Danner Mountain Lights and aren't intended for that type of use.
At the end of the day, we all vote with our wallets.
@@exvan3571Alden is overpriced crap. Get real
@@whereRbearsTeeth don't buy them then. Buy some kilties from Rose Anvil.
@@exvan3571 What is disingenuous about his take? They renamed it the Indy, after Indiana Jones...an adventurer that runs from boulders in caves, goes on truck and tank chases, etc...and it fell apart after he kicked it around his shop and a few trails after a few months. If Alden only sold shoes with "dress" pedigree they would have been bankrupt decades ago. What's disingenuous is Alden selling people an "Indiana Jones" boot for $700 full of shitty materials, not RAs opinion of it.