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Full Grain Podcast
Добавлен 10 авг 2022
Want to know more about your favorite products? Leather tannery veterans Nick Horween (5th generation, Horween Leather) and Phil Kalas (Founder, Ashland Leather) cover manufacturing, leather, boots, denim, everyday carry and the talented people who are creating the world's finest products. Get the inside scoop and a greater understanding for high quality goods with a new episode released every week.
EP52: Nick's Handmade Boots & Horween Leather Co. Discuss Shell Cordovan
Shuyler Mowe (Nick’s Handmade Boots) and John Culliton (Horween Leather Sales) talk with Nick about boots, leather, challenges and more.
nicksboots.com/
www.ashlandleather.com/
www.horween.com/
linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast
Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/
The world's finest leather. Check our Horween Leather. www.horween.com/
linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast
email questions to fullgrainpodcast@gmail.com
Support the show: www.buzzsprout.com/2055770/support
nicksboots.com/
www.ashlandleather.com/
www.horween.com/
linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast
Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/
The world's finest leather. Check our Horween Leather. www.horween.com/
linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast
email questions to fullgrainpodcast@gmail.com
Support the show: www.buzzsprout.com/2055770/support
Просмотров: 569
Видео
EP51: ICON 4x4 Jonathan Ward
Просмотров 37714 дней назад
Jonathan Ward (ICON 4x4) is an industrial designer and bespoke crafter of vehicles, clothing and leather goods. Jonathan shares his approach and philosophy when making things, and teaches us the importance of being passionate about what you do. ICON 4x4 www.icon4x4.com/ TLC 4x4 www.tlc4x4.com/ J Ward Collection jwardcollection Campfire Coats campfirecoats.com/ www.ashlandleather....
EP50: Horween Leather Tanner Explains Leather Finishing
Просмотров 55121 день назад
Horween Tanner, Esteban Perez, explains drying methods and leather finishing. www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/ The world's finest leather. Check our Horween Leather. www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast email questions to fullgrainpodcas...
EP49: Boot-Wearing Guide to Horween Leather
Просмотров 957Месяц назад
Stitchdown's writer, Zaid Hintzman, asks the best questions for boot fans interested in Horween leather. Nick and Phil explain the features and characteristics in many Horween leathers including shell cordovan, Horsebutt veg, CXL, Predator and more. www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leathe...
EP48: Leather Tanning 101
Просмотров 839Месяц назад
Horween Tanner, Esteban Perez, explains leather tanning and retanning. Leave your tanning and finishing questions in the comments. www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/ The world's finest leather. Check our Horween Leather. www.horween.com/ linktr.e...
EP47: Dean Delray, Leather Jackets, Stand-Up Comedy
Просмотров 505Месяц назад
Dean Delray is a stand-up comedian, podcaster, design lover and jacket collector. www.deandelray.com/ deandelray?hl=en www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/ The world's finest leather. Check our Horween Leather. www.horween.com/ linkt...
EP46: Q&A Chromepak vs. CXL, Horween Pinnacle, Coffee Tanning, Why Pit Tan?
Просмотров 1 тыс.2 месяца назад
Nick Horween and Phil Kalas answer your most pressing leather questions. www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/ The world's finest leather. Check our Horween Leather. www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast email questions to fullgrainpodcast@gma...
EP45: Shell Cordovan, Dublin, Essex, Pit Tanning, Tree Barks
Просмотров 1 тыс.2 месяца назад
Nick and Phil explore the similarities and differences of Shell Cordovan and Horween’s Essex leather. Both leathers are tanned using the same blend of tree barks. Horween’s Essex leather can also be finished into other products including Horween’s Dublin and Derby. www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life...
EP44: NBA Basketball Leather - Leather vs. Plastic
Просмотров 5182 месяца назад
Nick explains why leather is the choice material for professional NBA basketball and NFL football players. Phil and Nick discuss material options and compare leather and plastic choices. www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/ The world's finest leath...
EP43: 1940s Timber Tanned Calf Leather
Просмотров 7913 месяца назад
First tanned in 1940, Timber Tanned Calf is a legacy leather that is as storied as it is beautiful. The formula was lost. Despite the tannery’s best attempts they have not been able to reproduce it. www.ashlandleather.com/ www.horween.com/ linktr.ee/fullgrainpodcast Get a wallet that is made for patina and is guaranteed for life. Ashland Leather has you covered. ashlandleather.com/ The world's ...
Horween Cypress, Latigo vs. CXL, Grey Colors, Small vs. Established Brands
Просмотров 1,7 тыс.4 месяца назад
Starting with the cowboy origins of Latigo leathers, Nick delves into the details of Cypress, one of Horween’s latest leather offerings. We explore the complexities involved in achieving specific colors like grey and white. Finally, we engage in a conversation about the unique competitive edges that both small and large brands possess. 0:00 Topics 0:30 Horween Cypress Leather 12:06 Grey Color &...
EP41: ⚡Stitchdown Patina Thunderdome⚡, Boot Camp, Leather Perspective
Просмотров 2,4 тыс.4 месяца назад
Ben Robinson from Stitchdown joins Nick Horween and Phil Kalas to chat Thunderdome, Boot Camp, and Leather. Congratulations to all of the winners of the Stitchdown Patina Thunderdome. Boot Camp is October 12-13 in NYC. 0:00 What’s a podcast? 0:49 Stitchdown Patina Thunderdome 45:25 Boot Camp 57:35 Leather Perspective BOOTS IN THUMBNAIL: Open Dome Grand Prize Winner Patina Project App Profile: K...
EP40: CXL, Alden, WWII Boots, Dale’s Leatherworks
Просмотров 2,3 тыс.4 месяца назад
Asking the hard questions up top: Is Horween Chromexcel (CXL) leather overrated? Is Alden overpriced? Dale from Dale’s Leatherworks shares his opinions with Nick Horween and Phil Kalas. 0:00 American Original 1:08 CXL 19:12 Alden 30:03 WWII Boots 38:47 Stuck in a boot world from 10 years ago 52:38 Nick Q&A Lightning Round 1:00:38 Favorites www.youtube.com/@DalesLeatherworks dalesleatherworks.co...
EP39: Context Clothing, Alden, Roy Boot, Wisconsin Footwear, Supper Clubs, Sam Parker
Просмотров 1,5 тыс.5 месяцев назад
Sam Parker is the co-founder of Context Clothing. He is one of the individuals behind the creation of the famous Roy Boot by Alden x Context. Context had a 15 year run and closed its doors in 2020. Sam now runs restaurants and bars in Madison Wisconsin: Turn Key Supper Club, Settle Down Tavern, and Ounce By Ounce. www.turnkeymadison.com/ www.settledownmadison.com/ www.ozbyozmadison.com/ 0:00 Co...
Ep38: Q&A Brain Tanning(!) Leather, Horween Predator, Horsebutt, Rancourt
Просмотров 1,1 тыс.5 месяцев назад
Nick and Phil take on your hardest hitting leather questions including leather terms, brain tanning, leather delays, Horween’s Predator leather, horsebutt, sneakers and more. 0:00 Q&A 0:34 Leather Terms 10:09 Brain Tanning & Home Tanning 13:40 Leather Delays 16:49 Horween Predator Leather 26:17 Rose Anvil Collab 27:11 CXL Horsebutt 34:36 Sneakers 40:44 Color Variation 52:10 Rancourt 58:14 Patin...
EP37: Stridewise, Best Shell Cordovan, Veg vs. Chrome tan, Boot Collecting
Просмотров 5 тыс.5 месяцев назад
EP37: Stridewise, Best Shell Cordovan, Veg vs. Chrome tan, Boot Collecting
EP36: WTF is Aniline? Aniline Leather & Leather Finishing🖌️
Просмотров 1,2 тыс.5 месяцев назад
EP36: WTF is Aniline? Aniline Leather & Leather Finishing🖌️
EP35: Everything You Need to Know about Suede, Nubuck, Rough Out Waxed Flesh and Genuine Leather
Просмотров 2,2 тыс.6 месяцев назад
EP35: Everything You Need to Know about Suede, Nubuck, Rough Out Waxed Flesh and Genuine Leather
EP34: LIVE Q&A Shinki Shell Cordovan, Seidel Double Shot, Calf, Predator, Horsebutt
Просмотров 1,1 тыс.7 месяцев назад
EP34: LIVE Q&A Shinki Shell Cordovan, Seidel Double Shot, Calf, Predator, Horsebutt
Ultimate Leather Care Guide Horween Shell Cordovan Polishing Secrets
Просмотров 1,6 тыс.7 месяцев назад
Ultimate Leather Care Guide Horween Shell Cordovan Polishing Secrets
EP32: Alden Indy Boot, What is Quality, Meat Industry, Rose Anvil Weston Kay Part 2 of 2
Просмотров 3 тыс.9 месяцев назад
EP32: Alden Indy Boot, What is Quality, Meat Industry, Rose Anvil Weston Kay Part 2 of 2
EP31: Rose Anvil Cut in Half, Form vs. Function, Shell Cordovan Engineer Boots, Alden Controversy P1
Просмотров 2,4 тыс.10 месяцев назад
EP31: Rose Anvil Cut in Half, Form vs. Function, Shell Cordovan Engineer Boots, Alden Controversy P1
New Leathers at Horween, Stitchdown Boot Camp
Просмотров 1,2 тыс.10 месяцев назад
New Leathers at Horween, Stitchdown Boot Camp
EP29: Thunderdome, Bo Jackson, What Makes Leather Smell, Hot Stuffing Explained
Просмотров 91811 месяцев назад
EP29: Thunderdome, Bo Jackson, What Makes Leather Smell, Hot Stuffing Explained
EP27: FEW Spirits, Craft Spirit Appreciation 101, Barrel Aging, Bourbon
Просмотров 270Год назад
EP27: FEW Spirits, Craft Spirit Appreciation 101, Barrel Aging, Bourbon
EP26: Nomad Goods Brian Hahn: Creating Apple Tech Accessories to Work from Anywhere
Просмотров 474Год назад
EP26: Nomad Goods Brian Hahn: Creating Apple Tech Accessories to Work from Anywhere
EP25: Comparing Shell Cordovan, Horsehide, Cow, Steer, Deer, Bison
Просмотров 1,5 тыс.Год назад
EP25: Comparing Shell Cordovan, Horsehide, Cow, Steer, Deer, Bison
EP:24 The History of Buckleguy: How Hardware is Made, Sourcing Hardware and Leather
Просмотров 600Год назад
EP:24 The History of Buckleguy: How Hardware is Made, Sourcing Hardware and Leather
EP23: Portland Leather Goods - Curtis Matsko
Просмотров 1,8 тыс.Год назад
EP23: Portland Leather Goods - Curtis Matsko
It's sad to hear about the shortage of horse hides available for shell and other products. As a life long horseman I know so many people who would like a place to send their old and ill saddle and draft horses so they can serve a further purpose, but yes, US slaughter isn't an option. That's a whole other economic and very politically charged issue. I've had to bury some beautiful, big work horses whose shells could have lived on for generations as a fine pair of boots.
Grand Seiko is not basic!!! You could have said Rolex...
Nice finally
Timestamps 0:00 Intro to Jonathan Ward 9:19 thoughts on global sources of skilled labor 13:05 where would Icon move? 17:07 frustrations with politics 20:53 immediate vs delayed gratification, market demand for quality over affordability 26:29 (Phil’s out making music) 36:57 imitation leather/leather alternatives 45:56 Humans changing waterways 51:11 Being a maker, wabisabi, creative outlets (Geeks and rabbitholes) 56:19 labor market, constraints on controlling vs contracting manufacturing processes(Horween and Icon) 1:02:48 derelicts 1:06:10 what does Jonathan drive 1:11:12 vintage vs modern car performance and user experience 1:15:02 watches 1:20:05 demands of creativity vs capitalism 1:26:44 use and enjoy your cool stuff 1:32:35 California experiences 1:38:26 Close knit crew pay attention to business owners 1:41:50 Icon x Role Club/Brian the Bootmaker x Horween engineer boot collab update, passing businesses through generations
Timestamps 0:00 intro, how Dean got into leather jackets 9:02 Dean’s recommendations for leather jackets 14:03 The Grail plug 15:37 Dean’s background, his first jackets 20:26 grail items 24:10 comedy and crafting, being authentic vs fast fashion 33:17 Dean’s comedy process 44:40 Let there be talk plug, music and leather 48:59 trends in jackets and fashion over time 54:22 chasing the grail 1:00:27 bringing it back to leather and leather jackets 1:14:55 Japan 1:20:28 Lewis leathers 1:24:31 wrap up, Dean Delray plugs
Timestamps 0:00 intro/development of Essex 4:00 Tree Barks and Extract Blends 13:06 differences in tanning between cordovan and Essex lines 21:41 what is Essex, horsefronts vs horsebutts vs shell 30:18 Dublin, Derby and other Essex variants 38:52 Dublin vs Cypress vs CXL 48:07 Negatives of essex lines 52:41 favorite products in Essex and variants 58:19 how much veg extract is in essex compared to other leathers 1:00:17 favorites
Which leather takes the most time, cost , and labor to create? I suspect it’s the Dublin/essex line.
How about belgian draught horse? Could you get horse hide from mongolia?
Timestamps: 0:00 intro 1:10 drying methods 13:00 staking to meet temper specs, backtracking to ringer press and setting machines 16:46 intro to finishing on the third floor 19:25 basic finishing 23:32 finishing dyes vs wet end dyes (3rd floor vs basement) 29:25 the artistry of finishing 33:42 embossing 38:25 finish application techniques and machines 50:27 impregnation and mystic 53:57 other methods of finishing - tumbling, plating, rolling, glazing, boarding, buffing, polishing 1:05:15 summary of finishing 1:06:24 how are the phases of tanning separated into different types of tanneries? 1:10:09 what does waterproofing mean/shackleton? 1:17:09 Esteban’s favorite leathers 1:21:35 favorites
Timestamps 0:00 intro/summary of tanning 1:58 phase one: preserving raw hides 9:53 what’s most important in phase one? What makes Horween different at this stage? 18:55 differences between mineral/veg/synth tanning 33:23 Phase two: transformation of a basic tannage (retanning) 48:22 simplified synopsis of phase one and phase two 52:43 trade offs of making different choices in retanning 1:07:58 wrap up, a pause before phase three, favorites
Timestamps 0:00 the 800 pound gorilla of shell cordovan (supply of shell) 6:53 who makes the best shell footwear? 13:46 favorite recent release non shell Horween leather 20:00 Shuyler’s favorite non Horween leather 21:46 how do customers select leathers from different tanneries when buying Nicks boots? 26:10 who doesn’t like pull up? (Europeans) 27:16 why using veg tan leather is a factory problem and not a work boot problem 36:09 best leathers Nick Horween has personally developed 38:30 challenges of taking leather from table to product 48:48 history of naming colors at Horween 52:15 challenges working with new factories 59:00 challenges with lead times 1:12:16 sporting goods vs too many other product lines 1:16:43 perspectives working in the same business as your dad 1:29:11 wrap up/btw Phil’s not here
Thank's
Timestamps: 0:00 intro 0:40 chromepak vs cxl 3:55 pinnacle 9:14 properties of different tree barks 10:20 why pigment is used for black leather 11:47 dyeing leather 15:26 pit tanning vs drum tanning 18:07 removing and replacing fats in leather 21:06 what is crust cxl, defining “crust” 24:29 what is waxed flesh/huntsman 25:16 why choose crust cxl over classic cxl 27:31 defining what veg tan means/can coffee tan leather 29:16 what fats can be used in retanning 32:12 Seasonality of leather and leather goods 45:00 hide buying 50:57 favorites (BLTs/Popeye’s)
Timestamps 0:00 Intro 1:38 Shell Cordovan 15:49 Horsebutt/cxl workshoe butts/horsehide strips 37:07 polished vs unpolished products (classic cxl vs. crust cxl) 41:53 cxl and cxl variants 49:20 Waxed flesh/marine fieldshoe 54:09 Mechanical cxl 59:11 Predator 1:04:56 Chamois 1:11:45 a brief digression on loafers 1:14:18 Essex 1:18:47 glazing jacks/reflections on the tannery, patina, this episode and the last on tanning 1:24:07 Phil really likes cxl, Nick and Zaid plug Patina Project App 1:29:30 Dublin 1:31:30 Cypress 1:33:04 Bootmaker Appreciation 1:36:16 Chromepak 1:37:50 Wrap-up 1:41:12 Favorites (Olympics)
So good!!
Nick’s doing a great job running the pod solo; Shuyler had some excellent questions and insights; John had some really insightful and entertaining anecdotes/insights. Both would make great return guests and I think Phil’s return could only enhance the conversation (even thought he wasn’t mentioned til the very end, ha!). Look forward to getting more possible glimpses into hide buying in future episodes. I was wondering what happens to horse hides in Japan after reading about how Canadian horses are exported (does shinki dominate that market?), and that basashi (horse sashimi) flavored ice cream is made in Japan. Not sure how easy title cards are to change on RUclips, but thought I’d suggest a couple alternate timestamps for screencaps since Phil’s been extra busy: 1:16:14 1:17:05 1:27:54 1:29:19
Outstanding podcast!! Really hoping for a part 2!
Called out on the FG Podcast! I was listening and I hear you John and Schuyler regarding firmness. When I came up with the idea of Cypress I was thinking of it for wallets, the firmness of it works quite well. As Cypress begins its journey to the boot world I will keep that in mind, good feedback! I have not actually seen Cypress in a boot in person, I think that for RND purposes it would benefit everyone that I experience this leather in some boots 9.5😂 U can ship to the tannery, again, for RND purposes wink wink. Ja ja ja ja ja
Get this man his boots!!
As a sales person, this was my favorite of your podcasts. My favorite accounts have talked just like Shuyler and you know Nick and John are frustrated to look at their problems in the face, yet the uncomfortable conversations are where problems get solved. One will be more understanding and appreciate them saying it here, while the other side gets good ideas on how to improve. And with this conversations, I have fallen more in love with both brands.
I want a Horween EAT MORE HORSE t-shirt/hat
This was great! Would love part 2: The dads of leather
Why is CXL HH always hard to get, Even harder to find? It seems like Aero Co can get their hands on CXL HH pretty easy, Even pinnacle too. Is CXL HH exclusive to them?
Tannery row has cxl horse available
Oh yea,, this is gonna be a good one!! Thanks guys
“Axe Bodyspray” now has a leather scent. cxl cologne plz
"This extremely masculine scent is hot stuffed with a proprietary blend of natural waxes, oils, and greases"
What a pleasant surprise to find in subscription feed. As an automotive engineer, quality manager, and a leather worker, this was a perfect conversation. Thank you!
Honestly this was possibly the best episode so far. Loved this.
Mr Ward!!!!!
can we get a cxl cologne plz
I second the idea of a new CXL scent lol. Those who know would know once they smell it.
Yes! Love these
K
Wound up finding and reading some books from 1915 through Project Gutenberg. One is from an English series that overviews common commodities and industries, written from the perspective of an English Sole Leather tanner - Leather: From the Raw Material to the Finished Product by KJ Adcock. The other is a children’s book about the 15 year old son of an American tanner that is punished for his bad grades by being sent to work at his father’s four different factories (calf, sheep, sole, patent leather). Along the way he makes a friend his age that was working at the tannery with mysterious ties to his family’s past. That’s “The Story of Leather” by Sara Ware Bassett. Both were enjoyable reads in the context of episodes 48 and 50, but I’d like to share some selected excerpts in the RUclips comments.
History of Tanning: It may be that the preservative effect of alum was discovered even before the vegetable tanning process, for the original Japanese white leather was made simply by steeping the raw hides in certain rivers which contained a bed-rock of alum. This primitive process is even followed to-day in one or two places in Japan, but the leather is afterwards treated with oil to impart tensile strength and increased suppleness.” The Wide Range of Hides: Among other skins useful for leather are those of the wallaby, kangaroo, dog, lizard, crocodile, alligator, ichneumon, frog (Japanese), deer, antelope, and chamois, while it is said that even rabbit skins have been pressed into service in Germany, though they cannot have much value owing to their small size and thin substance. Dog-skin leather wears well, mainly on account of the large amount of natural grease present in the skin, but the supplies are naturally small. The hides of the walrus, elephant, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, and other wild animals are also tanned in small quantities, walrus leather being well adapted for knife and sword polishing.” The mammals also contribute their quota to the supply of raw material of the leather trade, the seal perhaps, being the most important. This refers to the hairy seal hunted off the North American coast. According to an American Consular Report, the results of the fishing during the season 1913 were satisfactory. The total number of seals captured was 272,965, which were valued at £98,800. The number of skins exported was 212,285, valued at £64,300, of which the United States of America bought 151,355, the United Kingdom 60,754, and Canada 176.” “The porpoise, or sea hog, has a very useful hide which, when dressed, makes a tough leather suitable for laces. The hides of other cetaceous mammals, such as the whale and narwhal, are convertible into useful leather. The British "porpoise" laces are generally made from the skin of the white whale (beluga).”
Oak bark: In England, oak bark is harvested in April and May, when the sap rises in the tree. Rings are cut round the tree soon after it is felled and the bark is peeled from the tree with a special tool which is forced between the bark and the wood. It is peeled in narrow strips about 3 ft. in length, and on delivery to the tannery is stacked in huge ricks. If harvested in a good, dry condition, the bark is said to improve with age, although analytical tests have shown that there is always a certain loss of tannin. An old rick is much darker in colour than a new one, owing to exposure to the air. Coppice bark from young trees is preferred by tanners, as it is free from ross and generally contains more tannin than the rough bark. Oak bark, which is usually delivered to the tannery in strips measuring 3 to 6 ft. in length, must be chopped or ground into small pieces by machine (Fig.21bark_mill). A measured quantity (a certain number of baskets or skeps “full) is placed in the empty pits, which are then filled with water. The liquor is pumped from these pits, as required, to others in which the hides are tanned.” Quebracho: After felling the quebracho trees, they are cut up into logs about 4 ft. in length and either exported in this state to Hamburg, Havre, and Liverpool, or sent to the numerous factories in close proximity to the forests to be made into extract, in which an enormous trade has of late years been developed. Owing, perhaps, to faulty preparation, this tanning extract was not well received at first, but it is now among the principal tannins and increases in importance every year. Mimosa: “By far the greater proportion of mimosa bark is still exported in the natural form, ground or chopped, and packed into bags weighing about 1 cwt. each. Before the European War nearly the whole of the bark was shipped to Hamburg, English tanners taking very little interest in it, although it was largely used by German tanners. But since the supplies of the materials favoured by British tanners have become somewhat restricted, attention has been drawn to the value of mimosa bark.” Making Extract: “The processes in extract manufacture are few. The wood, bark, or fruit is broken up into small pieces and macerated in hot or cold water. The concentration of the liquid is done in vacuum, or in an evaporator. The latest method is to treat the tan liquor in a "triple-effect" evaporator (Fig. 4), the object of using three compartments being to economise in steam. This apparatus makes liquid extracts; where a powdered or crystal extract is required, the liquid is afterwards treated in a vacuum drying apparatus. Some extracts contain a lot of colouring matter and insoluble substances. To overcome this defect, they are clarified with blood albumen, sulphites, casein, or acetate of lead.”
On Machinery Developments and Labor: “so many improvements have lately been made in the construction of machinery for practically every operation in the trade that most of the machines require very little skill to work them, and can be operated by intelligent youths after a few weeks' experience.” “Leather trades machinery was not a success at first, probably because it was very difficult to get the necessary information from leather manufacturers. However, as the engineers gained more experience of the methods of leather-making, the defects were gradually remedied until it may be truly said that the machines now reach a high state of perfection. It was no uncommon thing for workmen to lose a finger or two in a machine, but such accidents are now rare, owing to improvements in the construction of the machines.” “The most important machines outside the working cylinder type are the splitter, and the glazer. There are several kinds of splitting machines, but the band-knife machine (Fig. 7) is the most largely used. This is a veritable triumph of the engineer's art, for it is possible to make five or six layers, all about the same size, out of one hide, although leather is only split once or twice as a rule. Of course, sole, belting, and other thick leathers are not usually split. The invention of the belt-knife splitting machine revolutionised the leather trade, and there would undoubtedly have been a great shortage of leather without it. Formerly, all the levelling and reducing of substance was done by paring off quite small pieces with the shaving knife (Fig. 8), a difficult and laborious work. These parings were only suitable for pulping and compressing into leather board; but now the flesh splits removed by the machine can be curried, enamelled, printed, or rolled to make serviceable leathers, although, of course, not nearly so good in quality as the top or grain split.” “Nearly every leather trades' engineer constructs shaving machines, but the Howard-Smith is described here, not because it is the most popular (unfortunately there is a decided preference for low-priced machines), but because it is one of the best from an engineering point of view. This machine consists of nearly one hundred parts and each is made of the best material available. The advantage of this is obvious when the question of repairs is fully considered. The first Howard-Smith machine made has been running more than four years, and has not cost the owner a penny for repairs “beyond, of course, the expense of replacing the blades of the working cylinders”
On Leather as a Language: “Correctly speaking, the term "tanning," used to designate the process of converting hides into leather, should be confined to the use of vegetable tannins; unfortunately, the trade has largely adopted the word in many other processes of making leather. For example, large quantities of leather are produced by the use of minerals, and especially of chrome salts; where the latter is used, the leather is said to be "chrome-tanned," although “chromed" would be a more accurate definition. One mineral process of making leather, namely, that involving the use of alum, or alumina sulphate, and salt, is technically described as "tawing," The conversion of skins into leather by the use of oxidised oil is known as “chamoising," imitation chamois leather being made by that process.” Dehairing Boot Leather: This method is rarely used in England, but a few American tanners seem to prefer it for certain classes of hides. In the American process, the hides are first soaked, and then cut in half down the back, forming what are known as sides. Dry hides are subjected to the usual mechanical operations in the faller stocks, in which they are kneaded by two large hammers (Fig. 14), or they are drummed in the tumbler (Fig. 13). After the sides are thoroughly softened and drained, they are transferred to the sweat pit, which is, preferably, a dark underground chamber. The stock requires very careful attention as the process is risky. The temperature should never exceed 75° F., otherwise the hides may be irretrievably ruined. The process may take from one to four days, according to the varying conditions of the hides and of the weather. The loss of nitrogenous matter gives rise to the development of a strong odour of ammonia, which is sometimes even too pungent for the workmen. When the hair is judged to be sufficiently loose, the sides are washed in cold water and put in the stocks again for about ten minutes, when all the hair will be removed; or the hair may be scraped off in the unhairing machine. This method is not useful for sole leather, as it causes too great a loss of gelatine, but it saves time in the production of sides intended for boot upper leather, which is usually sold by measurement (superficial area)” Bating and Puering: ““Hides to be dressed for such purposes as bags, portmanteaus, cases, harness, belting, and stout uppers are usually steeped in an infusion of hen or pigeon dung. A vat is filled with tepid water, a quantity of the dung, usually about half a pailful, is added and well stirred in the water before putting the hides in. The acid fermentation evolved neutralises the lime, while bacteria multiply and rapidly reduce the rubbery limed hide to a soft, flaccid condition.” The process of treating hides with excrement is known technically as "bating.” “Calf skins, which are curried or dressed after tanning, should be reduced to a more supple condition than hides intended for harness, belting, and military leathers. A more active dung is, therefore, used for skins of all kinds which have to be rendered supple. Dog manure is generally used, that from the hunting kennels being preferred. Imported dry dung has to be used by some firms, as the supply of fresh dung is insufficient. The demand for the latter is very keen, as it is more effective than the dry product. Goat skins dressed for the famous shoe leather known as glazed or glacé kid, and kid skins for glove leather, need a larger proportion of "puer.” “Fortunately, from the hygienic point of view, the use of natural "bates" and "puers," although still extensive, is likely to be superseded everywhere by artificial products. So far there are nearly 2,000 tanneries throughout the world where the artificial bating materials are preferred, German and American tanners being the principal users.”
Fast, Good, Free in 1915: Despite the well-known axiom that the vegetable tannage (but not the mineral) must proceed slowly and gradually in the early stages of the process if the hides are to be properly tanned, the modern tendency is to speed up the tanning, with the result that, in some cases, the so-called sole leather is really not fit for the purpose for which it is intended. The root of the evil is the desperate attempt made by many boot manufacturers to produce lower-priced boots than those of their competitors.” The Evils of Chrome in 1915: “By far the most important of the mineral tannages is the chrome process, the merits and demerits of which have not only been freely discussed in the trade, but also in the lay press. Fanciful theories of the poisonous character of this kind of leather have been published from time to time in the daily press. Such absurd statements as that prussic acid and mercury are used in the manufacture of chrome leather hardly need refuting, as, even if they could convert skins into leather, the cost would prohibit their use.” Black Leather in 1915: “There are two methods of dyeing blacks in the leather trade: (1) the logwood-ammonia, and (2) the aniline black. The former is the cheaper of the two and quite satisfactory, although many dyers seem to prefer the aniline process. The latter certainly gives a deeper black, but it is not at all necessary to make the flesh side of box calf black, and many buyers prefer the back blue, although, of course, the grain side of the leather must be finished a jet black. The colouring matter of logwood is haematoxylin, which is converted into haematin by oxidation; hence, the extract is often referred to as haematin crystals. One lb. of crystals, to which is added just enough ammonia to change the brown colour to violet blue, suffices for each 100 lb. of leather dyed. The colouring matter is absorbed by the time the drum has been running half an hour, leaving clear water behind.” Historical Perspective of Future Developments in Tanning: “I tell you what, Nat, some day science has got to find a way to get rid of certain obstacles that stand in the path of making leather,” declared Peter. “Somebody must invent an unhairing device to do away with the taking off of the white hair by hand. You’d better try your brain at the puzzle. Another chance for you to make yourself famous is to think out a machine for softening fine leather that will take the place of knee-staking. Still another opportunity to write your name in golden letters across the tanneries of the world is to perfect a patent leather varnish that will dry indoors. Now there are three roads to fortune open to you, old man. You’d better select one.”
Great episode! Wondering if you could ask Nick to explain the best way to keep waxed flesh looking new as possible. I’m one of the weird ones who doesn’t want to nap to appear 🤣 love how they look new
Episode 48 and 50 are just unrivalled by anything else on this topic on the internet!!! Again thank You so much for helping me to understand what it takes to make the leather that I like.
Bomber Mafia was an entertaining audiobook. I just can’t picture in modern times demanding that ball bearings be hand polished and expecting that product to be more consistent than machine polished ball bearings. Conversely, in the post covid experience, it is pretty easy to visualize the argument for precision attacks on critical points in supply chains though.
Is this Nick from Stridewise’s boy-toy??
Enjoying the content as always!
I love this content ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Awesome episode, big thanks to Esteban for taking us through Leather Tanning 101. Would absolutely sign up for the 201 course. Congrats on making it to 50 episodes! You guys foreshadowed this moment in episode 1, you’re in the top 17% of podcasts now.
50th episode milestone. Congrats guys! Keep em' coming!
congrats on 50 episodes
Edited excerpt from the book “A Perfect Red” on the origin of creating dyes from coal tar byproducts, specifically aniline: “Few inventors, however, have ever achieved success as young as did William Henry Perkin, who was only eighteen when he made a discovery that revolutionized the textile industry. Perkin, who decided to attempt the synthesis of quinine in his attic laboratory during the Easter vacation of 1856…Perkin repeated his experiment with still another coal-tar derivative, aniline. This produced an unprepossessing precipitate-what he later described as “a perfectly black product”-that seemed to have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. instead of pouring the black liquid down the sink, Perkin purified and dried it. he then decided to test the coloring properties of his precipitate. On silk, it produced a shimmering shade of lilac that Perkin called “Tyrian purple,” a shade that later became famous as “Perkin’s mauve.” Four hundred pounds of coal were needed to produce a single ounce of the dye, but one drop could color 200 pounds of cotton, making mauve cost-effective. Envying Perkin’s wild success, other chemists strove to imitate him. The colors they created-including Lyons blue, Britannia violet, and iodine green-all found enthusiastic buyers.” - Amy Butler Greenfield
Hey Guys, Question for you all on the finishing episode. How do you guys finish polishable leathers differently? Also, what’s different for the finishing or the black horse hide chrome excel vs. the black cow hide chrome excel?
Anyone else getting a ton of commercials in this episode? I’m 22 minutes in and have had 4 commercials. If there continues to be a commercial approximately every 5 minutes that’s 21 for this episode. That seems a bit excessive.
What setup is Nick running his DT1990 pro?
EQed with JDS labs element III or Questyle M15 👍
36:57 Nick Horween, not a Sith, does not deal in absolutes 17:19 re: tannage vs hides - I wonder if the previous comparison of the tannery to Taco Bell might not be helpful here. For example, if you order a Cheesy Gordita Crunch, you still have to choose if you want beef, chicken, or steak. Similarly, if you want chromexcel, would you like steer, bison, or horse? And then also you have to choose which packet of hot sauce to use, or not, which I guess is similar to color vs crust? The analogy may start to fall apart there. Another fine episode of FGP. I learn something new every time. This episode would be a great entry episode for somebody that hasn’t listened to the podcast before, maybe the best entry point since episode 2 - What is full grain leather? Another great entry would be episode 25 - shell cordovan and different animal hides, which covers some previous thoughts on which leathers are for the fanciest boys vs the beefiest, and shell basics. It pairs well with episode 15 - history of chromexcel if somebody is looking for more background on cxl, episode 45 for shell, essex, and Dublin. And episode 48: leather tanning 101 would give more depth to the tanning processes instead of products. Questions about finishing: 1)Is the glazing jack applying any finishing material to leather, or is it just polishing the surface with pressure and friction? How is the end result different from a mirror plating? 2)Do the different colors of waxed flesh come from different colors of wax, different colors of the flesh side of the base leather, or both? 3)How is marine field shoe finished differently than regular cxl, knowing that the expected presentation side is reversed? 4)What are the challenges of using water based finishes instead of solvent based finishes? 5)When does grain correction, buffing, and/or polishing occur in the tanning process? 6)As cattle have gotten bigger and the raw material has changed over time, what finishing techniques have become more common and/or more essential to creating consistent leather products? 7) in what situation might staking change the appearance of leather? Book recommendation related to finishing and Esteban’s favorite color: A Perfect Red: Empire, Espionage, and the Quest for the Color of Desire by Amy Butler Greenfield (available on kindle/audible). A deep dive into the history surrounding the discovery, trade, and eventual replacement of cochineal red. Might be too close to work to be enjoyable for the tanners, but maybe something leather nerd adjacent. The viewpoint is a little eurocentric, but that is related to the author’s other interests.
Was stuck in traffic and now I’m prepared to take the Taco Bell/Horween analogy too far. Picture a basic soft taco with beef, there’s a flour tortilla, beef, lettuce, and cheese. That’s like a latigo steerhide, combo tanned, good resistance to heat and stretchy. You want a bunch of spice? Diablo sauce, you will get spice but it might mask some flavors. That’s black latigo. No sauce packet? Natural latigo, a finished tasty product, no spice. Don’t want any toppings, just a basic taco to build on, tortillas and beef? That’s crust latigo. Need a little more finishing? Soft taco supreme, add that tomato and sour cream. That’s cypress, let’s add a nice wax coating. What’s that, you’ve gone gluten free? Get a crunchy taco. That’s Essex, more “natural,” a little bit more delicate to handle. Crunchy taco supreme? Dublin. You want something that’s a classic Taco Bell product, veg tanned, in a weird shape, with a premium meat, named after something originally made in Europe? Mexican pizza with steak aka shell cordovan. Need that with some chrome and a little more grain? Workshoe butt aka the steak Crunchwrap Supreme. Need another classic that’s stuffed with more stuff just to make it awesome? Cheesy Gordita crunch, aka chromexcel. What’s that you want something that’s all chrome and going to be indestructible? Get a chalupa, aka chromepak. Need to mix things up and get something that’s a little newer, has some different ingredients, and a different feel? Breakfast burrito - predator. We want to see the inner workings a little better? Loaded nachos - snuff suede. Need more stuff on your nachos? Nachos BellGrande - chamois. Need all the properties of a cheesy Gordita crunch but you gotta keep your face clean? Eat it from the top, that’s marine fieldshoe, keep that sand from building up in your shoe. Does this make any sense anymore? Absolutely not, and now I need to go get some Taco Bell.
8) can you describe wet stuffing in a little more detail? What are the pros and cons? What are products that are wet stuffed and how are these different than a fat liquored or hot stuffed product?
Seems like you may have addressed this question in the corners about horseshoe butt and crust, what is the double cordovan butts that viberg ran as a teacore service boot in a limited run? Is that just horseshoe butt with the whole boot with cordovan or is there some treatment to make it a teacore?
ruclips.net/video/GeZg9E2FokU/видео.html at 16:33 in episode 34, the live q&a episode, in case that link doesn’t work
What does waterproof even mean for a tannage? Where does Shackleton fit into this?
CXL is comfortable on Aldens. On Grant Stones it never seems to break in. Too thick perhaps. Got Essex boots with leather as thin as on jacket or purse. Comfortable but feels a bit flimsy. And I can’t rub out scratches, which show light core underneath. All comes down to how shoemaker desires hides to be split.
Essex is not the same as CXL. The Essex is veg tanned and will display the characteristics of such. CXL is hotstuffed and much softer in comparision. Hope that helps because it's not really about how the shoemaker splits the hides
@@Darkness8710my Essex boots are floppy, thin and soft, much softer than my half stiff waxy CXL. I think Nick mentioned that Essex is softer than your typical veg tanned.
I'm wearing in a pair of black roughout chamois Truman uplands with an unstructured toe, I have to say, the experience so far has been amazing. The chamois is thick and supple, the nap feels nice to the touch like a microsuede and the way the boot gets a contrasting look after wear due to the heavily oiled content of the nubuck. I just wonder though, is there a reason the tongue on such a boot has to be smoothout even if it's using matching leather as the tongue. I reckon my Trumans would go harder with a roughout chamois tongue instead of a smoothout.
I loved this episode. So many good questions about all of the leathers. I'd love to see Zaid back to talk about the changing landscape of boot leather. What are the characteristics of popular leathers that make people like them vs other leathers that fall out of trend.
Phil- do you have any of the veg tanned full grain horse butt available? Sounds like a great product for a “work” wallet