The trouble is that modern Trek has forgotten this and space battles have now become CGI feasts where there is almost zero tension, but a mess of colour where you have no idea what is going on. Capital ships with crews of 200 or more seem to spin and gyrate around like they were single seat X-wings. Wrath of Khan is not only a masterclass in space battles it also shows that sometimes less is more.
Exactly right! That’s what is wrong with the Abrams Trek it’s like Michael Bay in space too much to focus on destroying the beauty of space! Beyond is horrible as is Discovery!
@@nicholasklangos9704 Nah, Wrath of Khan is not only one of if not the best trek Movie, but one of my favorite movies period. But I like the Abrams movies. Beyond was my least favorite of the 3, but still not horrible. Nothing wrong with good visuals. People say that like its a bad thing.
YES. always hated the starships as fighter craft approach of modern trek. the rebooted BSG did it better space battle wise. To be fair though, classic trek blurred the line...."warp speed" tactics vs. impulse tactics. unfortunately the remastered version of classic Trek made the CGI fighter situation even more ridiculous
You can 'Cry Havoc' all you want, 😊 but it's still only 2nd best! But I'm biased. My wireframe of the Enterprise,I did in college, is on the wall of the Turbolift in 3 scenes of Wrath of Khan! The 'map' to tell the Turbolift where to go! 😊❤ I met Roddenberry in college and he used my pic in the movie before he got ousted. They left it in, I never got credit or paid, but hey, I got something into a movie! The original 8' version is still on the wall in Roddenberry's office, where his son works! ❤🎉❤
Given the limitations of SFX back then, it amazes me that this battle still holds up decades later. The slow cat and mouse hunt was so effective, but a lot of credit also needs to go to James Horner's fantastic soundtrack that added to the tension.
I saw this on the big screen during its original run. I have owned and watched it in multiple formats for decades. I saw it again on the big screen last year for its anniversary. Damn this film holds up and the battles on the big screen still look fantastic.
Wrath of Khan's finale is a testament to tension increasing the effect of action. Movement and counter movement will always be more satisfying to watch than too many modern era battles, which all too often become a mass of pixels in motion without strategy, story, or geography. If I had a runner up and a worthy successor to TWOK, it would be the finale of "Yesterday's Enterprise"
@@drt1605 Definitely agree with you on that one. I despised Generations when I saw it in the theater and have never watched it again. It gave me the same vibes as the SW sequels... just awful.
The cinematography was superb on the initial encounter, with 2 things going on. An excellent score with the themes practically doing 'duelling banjos' and the way with each cut they zoomed in a little until Khan's money shot when he unleashed the phasers.
@@drt1605 That would have made for an interesting first Next Gen film. Would have been cool to have a major Hollywood rising 90s everyman action star such as Nicolas Cage playing Lt.Castillo forced to take command after the death of Captain Garrett. Throw in Michael Dorn playing an alternate timeline Worf as the Klingon task force commander taking on both Enterprises. That final battle could have had TWoK levels of ship destruction depicted on both Enterprises and among the Klingon ships. Imagine Picard taking the tactical station and defiantly firing weapons at the Klingons, then the scene cuts to Worf on the Klingon bridge,saying "Today is a good day to die" as he orders a collision course at the Enterprise D with the ships colliding and exploding as the Enterprise C goes into the portal and resets the timeline. That would have added so much to a Star Trek First Contact sequel when Worf prepares to order the Defiant to ram the Borg cube,and later in the film when he and Picard square off over blowing up the Enterprise to stop the Borg. Having seen Picard and Worf actually do battle and "kill" each other in a prior film, would increase the emotional impact when Worf tells Picard in so many words that only his respect for Picard prevented him from killing him when he called Worf a 'Coward" and later in the film when Picard apologizes and tells Worf he is the bravest man he ever knew.
Nice breakdown. I first saw this movie when I was in high school. Over 40 years later, this is still the best space battle in the franchise, and has held up remarkably well.
My problem is Wrath of Khan does not end with Kirks Court Martial for failing to defend the initial attack on his ship (violation of general orders). From a weaponry standpoint the ships were fairly equal, but under the circumstances Kirk was incompetent in how he hazarded his command due to his own hubris.
This is the best Trek ever made, and also can claim to be a good movie without reference to outside lore at all - it's sufficiently self-contained that it can stand alone. Montalban's acting was award worthy stuff, too. Khan will forever be one of fictions all-time great antagonists.
Never REALLY noticed the literal Clash of "Young VS Old" in Wrath of Kahn. Always focused on the Metaphors... 40 Years later and this Masterpiece STILL surprises
"Wrath" has so many great moments; Spock's sacrifice, the battle(s) ... but Ricardo Montalban is the ultimate space villain. His over-the-top Khan perfectly matches Shatner's over-the-top Kirk.
The nebula battle is among the greatest sequences in the history of science fiction cinema. The perfect blend of script, visuals, score and sound design.
true. they even had some of the biggest ships stand steady even as they were heavily hit. Another problem with the "ships as fighters" approach in CGI is how unrealistically weapons fire would "instantly" knock a starship, large or small around as if it was a Jet in flight. Even if warp/impulse technology allows such "maneuver" the fact remains that these are ships that represent considerable mass. To be thrown around by phaser fire like paper airplanes belies their mass and kills suspension of disbelief.
@@nikademuswtf this reason alone is what made me have to rewind when the dominion destroyed the cardassian/romulan fleet in The Die is Cast; the cardassian ships just get flung around like toys! Edit: I do know its hinted at in some points that the cardassian ships just suck but still
The shot where the Enterprise rises up right behind the Reliant will, I think, always be one of my favourite shots of any sci-fi film or TV show (the TARDIS flying through the Vortex in the 2005 revived series openings is nipping at it's heals though!). I like Star Wars, but Trek has always been the superior of the two for me, and it's slow, calculated battles like this that make it better, IMHO.
A starship "rising up" behind it's target may look great, but ist as stupid as any other space battle. Since there's no "up" in space, you maneuver tactically into a good shooting angle and the fire.
@@RictusMetallicus You don't REALLY need a lesson in the special circumstances in place during that scene, do you? The simple point the ship and shoot tactic was all they really had available, so turning an entire starship into an early twentieth century fighter plane really WAS the best tactic. I won't get into the fact that any "space movie" people like you would call "realistic" would be completely unwatchable. This scene was truly classic AND they actually inserted a plausible excuse for it. Now THAT'S movie making!
And lest we not forget the symbolism derived from the Herman Melville novel, Moby Dick. Kahn the obsessed Ahab. The great white Enterprise rising from from the depths to destroy Kahn's ship. Kahn quoting Ahab's words on the brink of death. And, of course, Moby Dick was one of the novels in Kahn's library on the Botony Bay. A magnificent script indeed.
Yeah, she really was, wasn't she? Later on, in Cheers, she gave Ted Danson's Sam Malone one of the slickest lines ever - they were going out on a date, and he brought a bouquet of roses for her. As he handed them to her, he said "I just wanted to show these flowers what a real long-stem beauty looked like."
Exactly. The space battle in "Khan" is masterfully done with two giant ships moving slowly around each other while keeping the tension high. This is unlike the current Star Trek shows that show these giant capitol ships banking & swooping that just don't make sense and in the end don't have the tension or excitement. One huge difference between "Khan" and today's Star Trek is during the battle in nebula there are long stretches of quiet. This builds tension. It's unnerving. It puts the viewer on the deck of the ship. This is not the case where in the Trek shows space battles are just barely revamped Star Wars battles. I saw "Wrath of Khan" in the theater back in the day. I was young then. I'm in my 60s now. I really appreciate your insight with the comparison between young & old. Something I wouldn't have noticed when I first saw this movie in the 80s. But as an older man today I can enjoy this movie with a renewed interest with an insight I didn't have before. I guess in a way when I first saw this movie I would have been like the inexperienced cadets aboard Enterprise. Whereas now I can see things from the point of view of a bridge officer. Knowledgeable and experienced but past his prime.
Really good points here! The stretches of silence punctuate the action so well in the second battle - a different kind of tension to the music heavy build up to the sneak attack earlier on. And yes I also found it to be one of those movies where your perspective really shifts a bit with age. Also funny to think about how they were dwelling on the age of the characters in this one - little knowing they had another 4 movies ahead of them!
Ds9 had some fantastic sequences. The scene where the Defiant and Rotarran turn around, revealing a massive federation and klingon fleet still gives me the chills. The nebula battle in Nemesis also feels like a hommage to this one.
Bravo! An excellent summary of my favorite movie. This read like a research paper, and the archival Horatio Hornblower footage added some historical perspective that I'd only ever heard about before, not seen.
Thank you! The old Gregory Peck Hornblower movie is actually worth a watch - but the British TV version from the early 2000s is outstanding. I’d recommend it to anyone who likes this kind of stuff.
Wrath of Khan is the greatest depiction of a one 1v1 Star Trek battle. Undiscovered Country was a good battle as well. The upgraded edition of the original series, while keeping the esthetic of the series does look pretty good now.
I hope you continue this series! I’d love to hear you dissect the battles in all the other movies! And even episodes like Yesterday’s Enterprise, A Quality of Mercy and The Corbomite Maneuver!
Hats off! You have a done a terrific job on this piece. Narrative, editing, pacing, etc...And for me, now in my 70's, a fresh outlook on one of the best movies ever made.
As far as one on one's only The Battle of Khitomer and the Battle of the Bassen Rift hold up. Voyager's Battle against the Viidians with Tuvok in command was also excellently executed. If it had been in a regular episode or movie instead of a flashback and reenactment, the Battle of Maxia likely would've been top shelf too. Deep Space Nine basically had the monopoly on spectacular fleet actions in Star Trek. Two Battles of Deep Space Nine, the Valiant vs the Dreadnought, The Two Battle of Chintoka, Operation: Return, The Battle of Cardassia. All bangers with different emotions and goals. The Texas Class vs the California class in "The Stars at Night" on Lower Decks is also a great battle.
I don't know if better, but the battle on Yesterday Enterprise also amazes me. The ship can't move as they need to defend the other ship, one that wont help in the fight to enter inside a temporal anomaly. Every single shot also change things, the tactic and the loss of most officers.
I have to go back and watch that one. TNG was a little lacking in cool space battles but Yesterdays Enterprise is usually in the conversation for the best they ever did.
I honestly can't see Kirk not raising shields in this scenario. He's aging and maybe a little out of touch, but he's not stupid. That being said, it certainly would have made for a short movie and this was absolutely the right choice for the narrative.
I've never been able to put my finger on it, but the first Reliant attack, those faser strikes along Enterprises hull always felt much more impactful than anything else. Absolute genius.
Wrath of Khan was absolutely peak Trek. Every frame in service to the story. Every item every visual having meaning and payoff. The tight space battle among the best ever filmed. The only other Trek Space Battle that comes close is the opening depiction of Wolf 359 in the DS9 Pilot Emissary. The loss of Sisco’s wife and ship in the face of an unstoppable enemy that was just mauling familiar ships. That final shot from the lifeboat launching out of Saratoga’s shuttle bay as you see the sweeping carnage around. We’ve moved forward from the days of wooden ships, to the early days of WW2 naval warfare.
They dont make them like that anymore...peak shatner. I saw that one in the theater as a kid of 8. I remember almost choking from the lump in my throat at they end. Thank for the analysis and comentary.
Shatner’s acting has been ridiculed over the years but he’s actually a decent performer. Moments like those in Star Trek 2 prove he can be brilliant under the right circumstances. Edited to add: Spock Dying was one of the saddest movie moments of my childhood - right up there with the Snowman melting.
@@Phintasmo Well keep in mind that Shatner is a classically trained Shakespearean actor like Stewart and Brooks, but Shatner is a bit more...BLESSED with his style, he goes big for the cheap seats. Meyer had to run a ridiculous number of takes to tire him out so he could be subdued and normal.
@@Phintasmo I was 14 when I saw TWoK on opening day and I remember hearing people sobbing when Spock died. When Kirk choked up talking about how Spock's soul was the most "Human" he ever encountered I got something in my eyes too.
@@Phintasmo If I remember correctly, it's been said that Meyer got that performance out of him by wearing him down with many takes. A skilled director makes all the difference. And I can't help tearing up to this day at Spock's death scene. ;__;
Saw this movie while in HS and bought the sound track - definitely earned the accolades it gets. I think Strange New Worlds Memento Mori has a similar feel to it - there's tension in being chased by a brutal predator and I love the special effects and the new enterprise.
Khan's lines in the movie really made me feel the passion of Khan's rage towards Kirk. You don't see that in today's movies. Ricardo Montalban acting was fantastic. It made the space battles feel more intense.
Agree, I've always loved this movie. Star Trek II Wrath of Khan and Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country are the best films from the first cycle of Star Trek films with the original cast.
This by far was the best of the Star Trek films. Nicholas Meyer knew what he was doing every time he worked on Star Trek. He rewrote this script in 12 days before taking it on. The 2nd time he worked on the series was as a writer only, for Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. That film was decent. The last film he worked on was the last with the original crew, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country where he co-wrote with Leonard Nimoy (another good writer and director as well actor) and directed. Meyer also worked on the first season of Star Trek: Discovery but left after that point In 2020 he wrote a script with mockups for Alex Krutzman for a new feature film or TV series, but never heard back and that ended his involvement with Star Trek.
I think the Enterprise-D hiding in a nebula from the Borg, then the Borg using depth charges in BoBW really dialed up the tension, esp. with the score of the episode. Starfleet/Marquis tactics use well the nebula (foggy weather) trope.
Just a superlative commentary on star trek Ii.. excellent job... subscribed... no other movie of that time did it better. Not to mention the compelling musical score... just a masterpiece of film making.... thanks 😊
Your photon torpedo effects for the Enterprise are fantastic. They are far too infrequently depicted in media as the spreads of multiple torpedoes we are told she is capable of delivering. Undoubtedly, this would be SOP in an existential fight. Bravo.
Great analysis and right on! Babylon 5 had some great space battles as did The Expanse . DS9 used the Wrath of Khan formula in the episode Star Ship Down the Defiant had some great moments in that show!
As a fan of 18-19th century seafaring and WW2 submarine battles in print and on screen, seeing ST:WoK for the first time, I was immediately struck by the similarities. By far the best space battle in cinematic history.
I'm probably the only one that actually likes the nemesis battle. The nemesis battle to me was very complex, especially when the romulans showed up. It gave a very complex battle and strategy that could've destroyed the main characters and the enemy at the same time. Hopefully In the future, Star trek makes battles more elaborate, like the battles of deep space nine.
Having been seriously disappointed in ST: The Motion Picture, I wasn't optimistic about ST:II, but I'm happy to say that it shattered all my expectations. Hard to believe the director wasn't a fan... he really captured the essence of the show and most of the characters in the movie.
It's also ironic that producer Harve Bennet who was brought in to take over the Trek franchise after Roddenberry was effectively demoted after STTMP, was also not a fan,nor was he a "movie" guy since he was from the television side of the studio.
One of the few redeeming things about Star Trek Nemesis is the Battle of Bassen Rift. While computer graphics aren't exactly the iconic models of Enterprise & Reliant of Wrath of Khan, the fight in the nebula between the Enterprise-E & Scimitar, along w/the two Romulan Valdore class ships, was a very entertaining ship engagement. It had elements of the fleet battles of Deep Space Nine but still the one on one combat we all enjoy from classic Trek. Many of those same elements from Wrath of Khan seem to come into play here as well.
Seconding another comment here - James Horner's score is the unsung hero in all this; he really separated this film from early Trek, while still paying homage. It's just amazing how each piece echoes the scene and characters at play, and set the bar for successors. This previewed his excellent work with Aliens and other suspenseful movies.
And then space battles went the way of Star Wars ... sigh. As a guy who served in the Navy, I know that vessels in your own fleet are often out of sight, never mind the enemy. Heck, forget naval warfare, these people create space battles where the distance is vastly closer than we would see in air combat. Top Gun Maverick had it all wrong, wingmen might be a mile away and you never get within feet of an enemy. Fifty years ago, a Tomcat might fire at an enemy almost 100 miles away. Then we have the nonsense where spacecraft are rapidly maneuvering to make a shot...like it's the days of fricking sail. More than 160 years ago, the USS Monitor introduced a rotating turret that could attack in any direction necessary. Later battleships had more limited firing arcs due to the superstructure, but multiple turrets still gave 360-degree coverage. Today, vertical launch cells let us toss a missile straight upwards ... and it will steer in any needed direction. Presumably, starships could, at the very least, duplicate something that naval ships mastered in the 20th century. If spaceships are going to maneuver, it would be to take situational advantage, such as hiding behind a moon (The Enterprise hiding behind the moon while Khan futilely searches for him is a good case in point ... presumably the station's sensors were feeding data to Enterprise). Or, it could be to coordinate with a fleet or intercept an enemy. Maybe effecting gravitational slingshots, or other advantages, might be realized.
Generally speaking, the fewer the number of ships the better the battle is. The Wrath Of Khan, The Undiscovered Country, Yesterdays Enterprise, The Jem Hadar and Shattered Mirror were all great battles on a small scale. DS9 though did bigger battles very well, The Way Of The Warrior really set the bar high and was a true spectacle. We just hadn't seen big fleet actions in Trek before. Every major fleet engagement of the Dominion War was also fantastic, Sacrifice Of Angels being my favourite. Even though we didn't know the ships or crews of the ships we were watching I still felt some sort of "connection" because they were Starfleet and starfleet were the good guys dammit. There has been a gradual change though where the show creators began portraying these huge capital ships more like nimble torpedo boats. The slower pace of ships slogging it out, dealing and taking damage was swapped for faster paced dog fights. At some point it's like shields stopped being a thing and ships were popping off left right and centre. Babylon 5 though, those battles were French Kiss moments.
The Dominion War really pushed forward on what TWoK established for Trek space battles, showing us that even great naval battles in space reminiscent of the Pacific Theater in WWII were doable and worthwhile.
I'll never understand by TNG ignored this style of space battle that gave the ships a true sense of scale and just turned all their massive starships into craft that moved like fighter planes streaking around inside an atmosphere. The insane acceleration during sub-light speed maneuvers, banking, rolling, turning - it all looked SO bad by comparison. Star wars tie fighters couldn't out maneuver a TNG star cruiser!
Okay Trek fans, there was another intense space battle that needs mention...The Doomsday Device. The whole episode was almost one running battle between the Doomsday machine and two Capital ships of the line, one seriously damaged almost from the start. The same tension was there as Cmdr Decker took over the Enterpirse to attack, failed, back off and Kirk (and Scotty) on a badly damaged ship bring attention back to them, to have it switch back to Enterprise. I feel Kirk was again setting up the no-win scenario as he pilots Intrepid into the maw of the DDD and "wins" by the skill of his crew, not just himself. I love that show for both the slow build of tension and drama, but even with the limited CGI of the time, gave good visuals of the battle from a space POV.
Wait...Spock dies??? Great analysis of one of my all-time favorite movies. Whenever I hear James Horner's score of the first Khan/Kirk encounter battle, I can hear the dialogue from the film in my head. (Wow, what a dork I am!) Idea for a new Star Trek TWOK video: Where did the star that the Genesis planet orbits come from? (OK, there are a "few" plot holes in ST II, but it's a damn fun movie!)
I noticed in a much later episode (in Picard I think) that in similar visually difficult circumstances, someone had the sense to send someone down to a lower deck at the front, and just look out of a window to see what was there, rather than sitting watching a crackling screen display.
On nitpick: The Starship combat of TOS was not based on slow moving actions of Captial Ships but mostly Fighter Jets combat. The more deliberate pace and the slugging it out, came in with Wrath of Khan. The slowest combat was Balance of Terror which is inspired by Destroyer vs Submarine. The most modern Equvivalent to TOS would be....the Expanse actually...harsh manovers, waiting and hoping because one good hit will end it.
I don't know about fighter combat. TOS is actually the most...I don't want to say realistic, but cognizant of just what the technology would be like in a fight. Two ships moving at substantial fractions of the speed of light, either .25c at impulse or actually using warp to maneuver at FTL, and then firing range at 1 light second which is WAY outside of normal visual range. They would be zipping around while maneuvering. The Balance of Terror of course had the element of defeating stealth so that likely slowed things down. Then there was the Doomsday Machine, which was more like a demon wall in an rpg.
The battle sequence from Nemesis wasn't awful, but could've been way better than it was. They were going for a specific vibe, not at all unlike TWOK battle, but they couldn't stick the landing. Seeing the Enterprise ram the Scimitar was pretty cool though. An unexpected move. I also enjoyed the Star Trek VI battle at the end, though I felt it was too brief. The battles from TWOK are undefeated in cinema. Just glorious and well executed. A true benchmark.
Limits on what they could do forced them to be creative. Today they can put anything they can imagine on screen, but can’t seem to generate any good ideas.
@@rbailey1240 "History has taught us that just because you can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that you *must,* do that thing." ~ Federation President Ra-ghoratreii, 2293 The challenge of restriction can be a great energizer of creativity, though I think there's been a great error in Trek production trying to match Star Wars instead of advancing Star Trek. This started in 2009 when JJ Abrams who admitted to not being a big Star Trek fan was given the film because the studio wanted Star Trek to be more like Star Wars.
As many times as Kirk saw his _Enterprise_ in the original series taken over, you would _think_ he would have been beyond paranoid about even the slightest hint of odd behavior from any Starfleet vessel.
if it was not for a former officer that was under his command at one time he would have had the shield up sooner. That the issue with fleet on fleet battles. You may know some of the other side and that will slow your reaction. Think M5 were Commodore wesley could have blown the enterprise up. If he did not know KIRK she{ enterprise} would have been a dead duck
@@warp103 He should have had the shields up anyway the moment _Reliant_ was behaving atypically, no matter who he knew to be aboard that ship. Maybe all the times Kirk had lost control of the _Enterprise_ in the past was the reason Starfleet put that regulation in effect in the first place.
Operation Return from DS9 is also great. And it is basically the opposite of the Star Trek 2 battle, since it was inspired by the (cavalry) charge of the light brigade. 🤩
It does something else as well. All too often, we see antagonists give the protagonists a way out for no obvious reason. But here, there was something that gave Kirk some negotiating power and allowed him to develop a way out.
I can't imagine the rage Khan must have felt in that split second when the Enterprise warps away. Unfortunately, he didn't have the time to contemplate his folly, KABOOM!!!
It wasn't until DS9/VOY and now STP that the special effects guys could show just how fast and maneuverable Trek Fleet ships, shuttles and fighters really are.
The issue is Trek moved towards dog fighting in space like Star Wars and Babylon 5, vs understanding the distances that are in play. While in Wrath of Kahn showed really close battles (I think mostly for visual reasons and parallel to the old naval battles) but the strategy is with ships that are hundreds of thousands of miles apart. Where light speed of the phasers would be slow enough for a ship to evade.
The Wrath of Khan is the ultimate Star Trek space battle blending action and intelligence. The only other battle to come even close is also mentioned in this video the battle between the Enterprise and the Bird of Prey in Balance of Terror was "TOS" equivalent of the battle in The Wrath of Khan.
I always enjoyed star trek: the motionless pictures / star trek: the still... But I could also see and appreciate how not everyone (people who didn't grow up reading these Starfleet technical manual, Starfleet medical manual and Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise along with all the timeEscape & other novels) find it as engrossing and as admiring of the mellow and not tap dancing on your brain force-fed Sledgehammer subtle explosions for exposition people seem to classify as entertainment nowadays
Yes, this was excellent. I like The Voyage Home a little better because of the humor. The suspense of new discovery is my favorite genre. The Expanse is outstanding for this. The greatest SCI-FI is Stargate. 10 years of amazing creativity with some humor as well.
The trouble is that modern Trek has forgotten this and space battles have now become CGI feasts where there is almost zero tension, but a mess of colour where you have no idea what is going on. Capital ships with crews of 200 or more seem to spin and gyrate around like they were single seat X-wings. Wrath of Khan is not only a masterclass in space battles it also shows that sometimes less is more.
Same with action movies, car chases, everything.
Exactly right! That’s what is wrong with the Abrams Trek it’s like Michael Bay in space too much to focus on destroying the beauty of space! Beyond is horrible as is Discovery!
@@nicholasklangos9704 Nah, Wrath of Khan is not only one of if not the best trek Movie, but one of my favorite movies period. But I like the Abrams movies. Beyond was my least favorite of the 3, but still not horrible. Nothing wrong with good visuals. People say that like its a bad thing.
yes. every shot counted.
YES. always hated the starships as fighter craft approach of modern trek. the rebooted BSG did it better space battle wise. To be fair though, classic trek blurred the line...."warp speed" tactics vs. impulse tactics. unfortunately the remastered version of classic Trek made the CGI fighter situation even more ridiculous
The final battle in Undiscovered Country is a banger, though also directed by Nicholas Meyer.
Yeah, when they talk about the even numbered ones being good, they kind of mean the ones Meyer had a hand in.
Did Meyer retire??
Fwiw his daughter Dylan is engaged to Kristen Stewart.
You can 'Cry Havoc' all you want, 😊 but it's still only 2nd best! But I'm biased. My wireframe of the Enterprise,I did in college, is on the wall of the Turbolift in 3 scenes of Wrath of Khan! The 'map' to tell the Turbolift where to go! 😊❤ I met Roddenberry in college and he used my pic in the movie before he got ousted. They left it in, I never got credit or paid, but hey, I got something into a movie! The original 8' version is still on the wall in Roddenberry's office, where his son works! ❤🎉❤
@@Phintasmo Star Trek IV?
They're the two best battles but in undiscoveed country, its mostly about absorbing pain and khan is about outthinking so it wins it for me
Given the limitations of SFX back then, it amazes me that this battle still holds up decades later. The slow cat and mouse hunt was so effective, but a lot of credit also needs to go to James Horner's fantastic soundtrack that added to the tension.
I saw this on the big screen during its original run. I have owned and watched it in multiple formats for decades. I saw it again on the big screen last year for its anniversary. Damn this film holds up and the battles on the big screen still look fantastic.
Wrath of Khan's finale is a testament to tension increasing the effect of action. Movement and counter movement will always be more satisfying to watch than too many modern era battles, which all too often become a mass of pixels in motion without strategy, story, or geography.
If I had a runner up and a worthy successor to TWOK, it would be the finale of "Yesterday's Enterprise"
TNG was strangely lacking in memorable space battles but Yesterday’s Enterprise is one of the major exceptions.
@@drt1605 Definitely agree with you on that one. I despised Generations when I saw it in the theater and have never watched it again. It gave me the same vibes as the SW sequels... just awful.
The cinematography was superb on the initial encounter, with 2 things going on. An excellent score with the themes practically doing 'duelling banjos' and the way with each cut they zoomed in a little until Khan's money shot when he unleashed the phasers.
@@drt1605
That would have made for an interesting first Next Gen film. Would have been cool to have a major Hollywood rising 90s everyman action star such as Nicolas Cage playing Lt.Castillo forced to take command after the death of Captain Garrett.
Throw in Michael Dorn playing an alternate timeline Worf as the Klingon task force commander taking on both Enterprises.
That final battle could have had TWoK levels of ship destruction depicted on both Enterprises and among the Klingon ships. Imagine
Picard taking the tactical station and defiantly firing weapons at the Klingons, then the scene cuts to Worf on the Klingon bridge,saying
"Today is a good day to die" as he orders a collision course at the Enterprise D with the ships colliding and exploding as the Enterprise C
goes into the portal and resets the timeline.
That would have added so much to a Star Trek First Contact sequel when Worf prepares to order the Defiant to ram the Borg cube,and later
in the film when he and Picard square off over blowing up the Enterprise to stop the Borg.
Having seen Picard and Worf actually do battle and "kill" each other in a prior film, would increase the emotional impact when Worf tells Picard in
so many words that only his respect for Picard prevented him from killing him when he called Worf a 'Coward" and later in the film when Picard
apologizes and tells Worf he is the bravest man he ever knew.
Nice breakdown. I first saw this movie when I was in high school. Over 40 years later, this is still the best space battle in the franchise, and has held up remarkably well.
Totally agree. The battles in this movie are amazing. The music, the acting, the special effects - everything is perfect!
The way the lights go on, on the panel showing shields going up is pretty poor.
My problem is Wrath of Khan does not end with Kirks Court Martial for failing to defend the initial attack on his ship (violation of general orders). From a weaponry standpoint the ships were fairly equal, but under the circumstances Kirk was incompetent in how he hazarded his command due to his own hubris.
This is the best Trek ever made, and also can claim to be a good movie without reference to outside lore at all - it's sufficiently self-contained that it can stand alone. Montalban's acting was award worthy stuff, too. Khan will forever be one of fictions all-time great antagonists.
Never REALLY noticed the literal Clash of "Young VS Old" in Wrath of Kahn.
Always focused on the Metaphors... 40 Years later and this Masterpiece STILL surprises
Another factor is the use of the score in each of the battles. The music and themes/motifs for each combatant play a huge role in those scenes.
This has gone down as a classic as it rightly should
"Wrath" has so many great moments; Spock's sacrifice, the battle(s) ... but Ricardo Montalban is the ultimate space villain. His over-the-top Khan perfectly matches Shatner's over-the-top Kirk.
The nebula battle is among the greatest sequences in the history of science fiction cinema. The perfect blend of script, visuals, score and sound design.
The battle for Deep Space 9 in Way of the Warrior is also one of the greats. DS9 had some great space battles.
Absolutely!
I don't like how DS9 was retrofitted to be able to take on a whole fleet.
Babylon 5 did that better at the time.
true. they even had some of the biggest ships stand steady even as they were heavily hit. Another problem with the "ships as fighters" approach in CGI is how unrealistically weapons fire would "instantly" knock a starship, large or small around as if it was a Jet in flight. Even if warp/impulse technology allows such "maneuver" the fact remains that these are ships that represent considerable mass. To be thrown around by phaser fire like paper airplanes belies their mass and kills suspension of disbelief.
@@nikademuswtf this reason alone is what made me have to rewind when the dominion destroyed the cardassian/romulan fleet in The Die is Cast; the cardassian ships just get flung around like toys!
Edit: I do know its hinted at in some points that the cardassian ships just suck but still
The shot where the Enterprise rises up right behind the Reliant will, I think, always be one of my favourite shots of any sci-fi film or TV show (the TARDIS flying through the Vortex in the 2005 revived series openings is nipping at it's heals though!). I like Star Wars, but Trek has always been the superior of the two for me, and it's slow, calculated battles like this that make it better, IMHO.
A starship "rising up" behind it's target may look great, but ist as stupid as any other space battle. Since there's no "up" in space, you maneuver tactically into a good shooting angle and the fire.
@rictusmetallicus I bet you're fun at parties. 🙄
@@ModelsExInferis😂😂
@@ModelsExInferis That was a good one lol
@@RictusMetallicus You don't REALLY need a lesson in the special circumstances in place during that scene, do you? The simple point the ship and shoot tactic was all they really had available, so turning an entire starship into an early twentieth century fighter plane really WAS the best tactic. I won't get into the fact that any "space movie" people like you would call "realistic" would be completely unwatchable. This scene was truly classic AND they actually inserted a plausible excuse for it. Now THAT'S movie making!
And lest we not forget the symbolism derived from the Herman Melville novel, Moby Dick.
Kahn the obsessed Ahab.
The great white Enterprise rising from from the depths to destroy Kahn's ship.
Kahn quoting Ahab's words on the brink of death.
And, of course, Moby Dick was one of the novels in Kahn's library on the Botony Bay.
A magnificent script indeed.
Man I forget how hot Kirstie Alley was!
I wish she'd stayed on as Saavik.
I didn't!
@@richardlahan7068
Right? Plus, they replaced her with a bad actress.
Yeah, she really was, wasn't she? Later on, in Cheers, she gave Ted Danson's Sam Malone one of the slickest lines ever - they were going out on a date, and he brought a bouquet of roses for her. As he handed them to her, he said "I just wanted to show these flowers what a real long-stem beauty looked like."
@@rudolphguarnacci197 She wanted too much money.
One of the best space battles of all time! One of the best sci fi movies of all time!
Definitely is still the premier space battle in my books. Visuals still hold up very well.
I wish Trek kept the original movie uniforms. They look very dignified.
I liked when the white-on-grays made it back during the Kelvin timeline movies. Those looked particularly good.
You deserve more subs. Good stuff man.
Very kind of you to say.
This one was fun to make - one of my all time favorite movies!
Exactly. The space battle in "Khan" is masterfully done with two giant ships moving slowly around each other while keeping the tension high. This is unlike the current Star Trek shows that show these giant capitol ships banking & swooping that just don't make sense and in the end don't have the tension or excitement. One huge difference between "Khan" and today's Star Trek is during the battle in nebula there are long stretches of quiet. This builds tension. It's unnerving. It puts the viewer on the deck of the ship. This is not the case where in the Trek shows space battles are just barely revamped Star Wars battles. I saw "Wrath of Khan" in the theater back in the day. I was young then. I'm in my 60s now. I really appreciate your insight with the comparison between young & old. Something I wouldn't have noticed when I first saw this movie in the 80s. But as an older man today I can enjoy this movie with a renewed interest with an insight I didn't have before. I guess in a way when I first saw this movie I would have been like the inexperienced cadets aboard Enterprise. Whereas now I can see things from the point of view of a bridge officer. Knowledgeable and experienced but past his prime.
Keep in mind that both ships had their engines broken in that initial exchange. Even in TOS the ships are quite quick and nimble.
Really good points here!
The stretches of silence punctuate the action so well in the second battle - a different kind of tension to the music heavy build up to the sneak attack earlier on.
And yes I also found it to be one of those movies where your perspective really shifts a bit with age.
Also funny to think about how they were dwelling on the age of the characters in this one - little knowing they had another 4 movies ahead of them!
Ds9 had some fantastic sequences. The scene where the Defiant and Rotarran turn around, revealing a massive federation and klingon fleet still gives me the chills.
The nebula battle in Nemesis also feels like a hommage to this one.
Now I'm going to have to watch Particles and Blueprints again .. a very cool rendition of this battle ...
Yep!
ruclips.net/video/2yLkr8nK0Qg/видео.htmlsi=uRV7yFA-irmlDLch
Bravo! An excellent summary of my favorite movie. This read like a research paper, and the archival Horatio Hornblower footage added some historical perspective that I'd only ever heard about before, not seen.
Thank you!
The old Gregory Peck Hornblower movie is actually worth a watch - but the British TV version from the early 2000s is outstanding.
I’d recommend it to anyone who likes this kind of stuff.
Great analysis!
Wrath of Khan is the greatest depiction of a one 1v1 Star Trek battle. Undiscovered Country was a good battle as well. The upgraded edition of the original series, while keeping the esthetic of the series does look pretty good now.
_"The upgraded edition of the original series (...)"_
I actually dislike that one. Very 'safe' visuals. Milquetoast.
I hope you continue this series! I’d love to hear you dissect the battles in all the other movies! And even episodes like Yesterday’s Enterprise, A Quality of Mercy and The Corbomite Maneuver!
I fully intend to!
Hats off! You have a done a terrific job on this piece. Narrative, editing, pacing, etc...And for me, now in my 70's, a fresh outlook on one of the best movies ever made.
As far as one on one's only The Battle of Khitomer and the Battle of the Bassen Rift hold up. Voyager's Battle against the Viidians with Tuvok in command was also excellently executed. If it had been in a regular episode or movie instead of a flashback and reenactment, the Battle of Maxia likely would've been top shelf too.
Deep Space Nine basically had the monopoly on spectacular fleet actions in Star Trek. Two Battles of Deep Space Nine, the Valiant vs the Dreadnought, The Two Battle of Chintoka, Operation: Return, The Battle of Cardassia. All bangers with different emotions and goals.
The Texas Class vs the California class in "The Stars at Night" on Lower Decks is also a great battle.
My favourite scene is the Reliant flying over the saucer section of the Enterprise... to James Horner's fantastic score.
Just wanted to say I found your analysis, writing and editing excellent. I hope you do more!
Bravo, sir! Another fine analysis.
Loved making it because this is one of my favorite movies - I watch it around Christmas every year!
Yet another fantastic video
I love all Trek. Including modern. This is an excellent analysis to my favorite film. Subscribed and hats off to you.
I don't know if better, but the battle on Yesterday Enterprise also amazes me.
The ship can't move as they need to defend the other ship, one that wont help in the fight to enter inside a temporal anomaly.
Every single shot also change things, the tactic and the loss of most officers.
I have to go back and watch that one.
TNG was a little lacking in cool space battles but Yesterdays Enterprise is usually in the conversation for the best they ever did.
“Let’s make sure that history never forgets, the name, Enterprise!”
Kirk should have raised Shields when spock informed him they were lying about their coil emissions
That would've made for a very short movie.
@OscarFowler yeah I know 😆 in that case I'm glad he didn't' this is my favorite Star Trek movie movie🖖
I honestly can't see Kirk not raising shields in this scenario. He's aging and maybe a little out of touch, but he's not stupid. That being said, it certainly would have made for a short movie and this was absolutely the right choice for the narrative.
@@skyborne80 💯🖖
Fortunately he raised the deflector screens for the bridge.
I've never been able to put my finger on it, but the first Reliant attack, those faser strikes along Enterprises hull always felt much more impactful than anything else. Absolute genius.
Wrath of Khan was absolutely peak Trek. Every frame in service to the story. Every item every visual having meaning and payoff. The tight space battle among the best ever filmed. The only other Trek Space Battle that comes close is the opening depiction of Wolf 359 in the DS9 Pilot Emissary. The loss of Sisco’s wife and ship in the face of an unstoppable enemy that was just mauling familiar ships. That final shot from the lifeboat launching out of Saratoga’s shuttle bay as you see the sweeping carnage around. We’ve moved forward from the days of wooden ships, to the early days of WW2 naval warfare.
They dont make them like that anymore...peak shatner.
I saw that one in the theater as a kid of 8. I remember almost choking from the lump in my throat at they end. Thank for the analysis and comentary.
Shatner’s acting has been ridiculed over the years but he’s actually a decent performer.
Moments like those in Star Trek 2 prove he can be brilliant under the right circumstances.
Edited to add: Spock Dying was one of the saddest movie moments of my childhood - right up there with the Snowman melting.
@@Phintasmo Well keep in mind that Shatner is a classically trained Shakespearean actor like Stewart and Brooks, but Shatner is a bit more...BLESSED with his style, he goes big for the cheap seats. Meyer had to run a ridiculous number of takes to tire him out so he could be subdued and normal.
@@Phintasmo
I was 14 when I saw TWoK on opening day and I remember hearing people sobbing when Spock died. When Kirk choked up
talking about how Spock's soul was the most "Human" he ever encountered I got something in my eyes too.
@@Phintasmo If I remember correctly, it's been said that Meyer got that performance out of him by wearing him down with many takes. A skilled director makes all the difference. And I can't help tearing up to this day at Spock's death scene. ;__;
Saw this movie while in HS and bought the sound track - definitely earned the accolades it gets. I think Strange New Worlds Memento Mori has a similar feel to it - there's tension in being chased by a brutal predator and I love the special effects and the new enterprise.
The battle in Yesterday's Enterprise... Short but tge tension was unforgettable 😊
"Let's make sure history never forgets... the name............. Enterprise."
-Patrick Stewart channeling maximum Shatner
This is an underrated channel. I really like your stuff man
Khan's lines in the movie really made me feel the passion of Khan's rage towards Kirk. You don't see that in today's movies. Ricardo Montalban acting was fantastic. It made the space battles feel more intense.
A great retelling of Moby Dick. Khan is the obsessed Ahab, and Kirk is the great white whale.😀
Surely, you mean Scotty is the great whale!! lol!!
Agree, I've always loved this movie. Star Trek II Wrath of Khan and Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country are the best films from the first cycle of Star Trek films with the original cast.
This by far was the best of the Star Trek films. Nicholas Meyer knew what he was doing every time he worked on Star Trek. He rewrote this script in 12 days before taking it on. The 2nd time he worked on the series was as a writer only, for Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. That film was decent. The last film he worked on was the last with the original crew, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country where he co-wrote with Leonard Nimoy (another good writer and director as well actor) and directed. Meyer also worked on the first season of Star Trek: Discovery but left after that point In 2020 he wrote a script with mockups for Alex Krutzman for a new feature film or TV series, but never heard back and that ended his involvement with Star Trek.
I think the Enterprise-D hiding in a nebula from the Borg, then the Borg using depth charges in BoBW really dialed up the tension, esp. with the score of the episode. Starfleet/Marquis tactics use well the nebula (foggy weather) trope.
Good analysis here, thanks for making it!
Just a superlative commentary on star trek Ii.. excellent job... subscribed... no other movie of that time did it better. Not to mention the compelling musical score... just a masterpiece of film making.... thanks 😊
THIS IS CETI ALPHA 5!!!!
Probably the least believable part of the movie
Your photon torpedo effects for the Enterprise are fantastic. They are far too infrequently depicted in media as the spreads of multiple torpedoes we are told she is capable of delivering. Undoubtedly, this would be SOP in an existential fight. Bravo.
Nicely narrated well produced
Great analysis and right on! Babylon 5 had some great space battles as did The Expanse . DS9 used the Wrath of Khan formula in the episode Star Ship Down the Defiant had some great moments in that show!
This movie literally single handedly saved the franchise! The greatest in every respect.
As a fan of 18-19th century seafaring and WW2 submarine battles in print and on screen, seeing ST:WoK for the first time, I was immediately struck by the similarities. By far the best space battle in cinematic history.
I'm probably the only one that actually likes the nemesis battle. The nemesis battle to me was very complex, especially when the romulans showed up. It gave a very complex battle and strategy that could've destroyed the main characters and the enemy at the same time. Hopefully In the future, Star trek makes battles more elaborate, like the battles of deep space nine.
Having been seriously disappointed in ST: The Motion Picture, I wasn't optimistic about ST:II, but I'm happy to say that it shattered all my expectations.
Hard to believe the director wasn't a fan... he really captured the essence of the show and most of the characters in the movie.
It's also ironic that producer Harve Bennet who was brought in to take over the Trek franchise after Roddenberry was effectively demoted
after STTMP, was also not a fan,nor was he a "movie" guy since he was from the television side of the studio.
This has and will stand the test of time.
Best Star Trek Movie, hands down
One of the few redeeming things about Star Trek Nemesis is the Battle of Bassen Rift. While computer graphics aren't exactly the iconic models of Enterprise & Reliant of Wrath of Khan, the fight in the nebula between the Enterprise-E & Scimitar, along w/the two Romulan Valdore class ships, was a very entertaining ship engagement. It had elements of the fleet battles of Deep Space Nine but still the one on one combat we all enjoy from classic Trek. Many of those same elements from Wrath of Khan seem to come into play here as well.
Fantastic breakdown.
A battle filled with tension between two ships is much better than many ships firing on each other.
Seconding another comment here - James Horner's score is the unsung hero in all this; he really separated this film from early Trek, while still paying homage. It's just amazing how each piece echoes the scene and characters at play, and set the bar for successors. This previewed his excellent work with Aliens and other suspenseful movies.
Love Wrath of Khan, but that is the densest nebula of all time!
They got this massive glass tank of water, dropped paints and dyes into it and filmed the results. I love the ingenuity that was necessary before cgi.
@@Phintasmo I didn't know that's how the nebula was made! Cool!
@@Phintasmo What about stirring glitter in a glass of water for the transporter effects...it honestly still looks better than the modern ones.
Not as dense as the Gamma Draconis nebula in Freespace 2
@@nickmitsialis
This is a deep cut reference!
I jumped out of my socks when the Shivan capital ship appears right in front of you.
The Wrath of Khan is a nearly flawless film, from beginning to end...
It is a great film, with some marvellous moments.
And then space battles went the way of Star Wars ... sigh. As a guy who served in the Navy, I know that vessels in your own fleet are often out of sight, never mind the enemy. Heck, forget naval warfare, these people create space battles where the distance is vastly closer than we would see in air combat. Top Gun Maverick had it all wrong, wingmen might be a mile away and you never get within feet of an enemy. Fifty years ago, a Tomcat might fire at an enemy almost 100 miles away. Then we have the nonsense where spacecraft are rapidly maneuvering to make a shot...like it's the days of fricking sail. More than 160 years ago, the USS Monitor introduced a rotating turret that could attack in any direction necessary. Later battleships had more limited firing arcs due to the superstructure, but multiple turrets still gave 360-degree coverage. Today, vertical launch cells let us toss a missile straight upwards ... and it will steer in any needed direction. Presumably, starships could, at the very least, duplicate something that naval ships mastered in the 20th century. If spaceships are going to maneuver, it would be to take situational advantage, such as hiding behind a moon (The Enterprise hiding behind the moon while Khan futilely searches for him is a good case in point ... presumably the station's sensors were feeding data to Enterprise). Or, it could be to coordinate with a fleet or intercept an enemy. Maybe effecting gravitational slingshots, or other advantages, might be realized.
Generally speaking, the fewer the number of ships the better the battle is. The Wrath Of Khan, The Undiscovered Country, Yesterdays Enterprise, The Jem Hadar and Shattered Mirror were all great battles on a small scale.
DS9 though did bigger battles very well, The Way Of The Warrior really set the bar high and was a true spectacle. We just hadn't seen big fleet actions in Trek before. Every major fleet engagement of the Dominion War was also fantastic, Sacrifice Of Angels being my favourite. Even though we didn't know the ships or crews of the ships we were watching I still felt some sort of "connection" because they were Starfleet and starfleet were the good guys dammit.
There has been a gradual change though where the show creators began portraying these huge capital ships more like nimble torpedo boats. The slower pace of ships slogging it out, dealing and taking damage was swapped for faster paced dog fights. At some point it's like shields stopped being a thing and ships were popping off left right and centre.
Babylon 5 though, those battles were French Kiss moments.
The Dominion War really pushed forward on what TWoK established for Trek space battles, showing us that even great naval battles in space reminiscent of the Pacific Theater in WWII were doable and worthwhile.
Deep Space Nine, I remember whooping when I saw the Defiant move during a battle, instead of the typical slug match .
Still like the battle with the Klingon cruiser in "Elaan of Troyius" best.
My favorite trek movie
I'll never understand by TNG ignored this style of space battle that gave the ships a true sense of scale and just turned all their massive starships into craft that moved like fighter planes streaking around inside an atmosphere. The insane acceleration during sub-light speed maneuvers, banking, rolling, turning - it all looked SO bad by comparison. Star wars tie fighters couldn't out maneuver a TNG star cruiser!
Okay Trek fans, there was another intense space battle that needs mention...The Doomsday Device.
The whole episode was almost one running battle between the Doomsday machine and two Capital ships of the line, one seriously damaged almost from the start. The same tension was there as Cmdr Decker took over the Enterpirse to attack, failed, back off and Kirk (and Scotty) on a badly damaged ship bring attention back to them, to have it switch back to Enterprise. I feel Kirk was again setting up the no-win scenario as he pilots Intrepid into the maw of the DDD and "wins" by the skill of his crew, not just himself.
I love that show for both the slow build of tension and drama, but even with the limited CGI of the time, gave good visuals of the battle from a space POV.
Wait...Spock dies???
Great analysis of one of my all-time favorite movies. Whenever I hear James Horner's score of the first Khan/Kirk encounter battle, I can hear the dialogue from the film in my head. (Wow, what a dork I am!)
Idea for a new Star Trek TWOK video: Where did the star that the Genesis planet orbits come from? (OK, there are a "few" plot holes in ST II, but it's a damn fun movie!)
As a kid, I assumed the Genesis Device also created the star . . .
It was condensed from the nebula. The Genesis planet is Regula.
I noticed in a much later episode (in Picard I think) that in similar visually difficult circumstances, someone had the sense to send someone down to a lower deck at the front, and just look out of a window to see what was there, rather than sitting watching a crackling screen display.
Master and Commander also comes to mind, but that came later.
On nitpick: The Starship combat of TOS was not based on slow moving actions of Captial Ships but mostly Fighter Jets combat. The more deliberate pace and the slugging it out, came in with Wrath of Khan. The slowest combat was Balance of Terror which is inspired by Destroyer vs Submarine. The most modern Equvivalent to TOS would be....the Expanse actually...harsh manovers, waiting and hoping because one good hit will end it.
I don't know about fighter combat. TOS is actually the most...I don't want to say realistic, but cognizant of just what the technology would be like in a fight. Two ships moving at substantial fractions of the speed of light, either .25c at impulse or actually using warp to maneuver at FTL, and then firing range at 1 light second which is WAY outside of normal visual range. They would be zipping around while maneuvering. The Balance of Terror of course had the element of defeating stealth so that likely slowed things down. Then there was the Doomsday Machine, which was more like a demon wall in an rpg.
Notice the subtle way reliants fisplay lights have red tint as she approaches enterprise
The battle sequence from Nemesis wasn't awful, but could've been way better than it was. They were going for a specific vibe, not at all unlike TWOK battle, but they couldn't stick the landing. Seeing the Enterprise ram the Scimitar was pretty cool though. An unexpected move. I also enjoyed the Star Trek VI battle at the end, though I felt it was too brief.
The battles from TWOK are undefeated in cinema. Just glorious and well executed. A true benchmark.
Xelant Video
I have gained a tremendous appreciation for the space battles in original Trek especially since the neon strobe light clown vomit we get today
Limits on what they could do forced them to be creative.
Today they can put anything they can imagine on screen, but can’t seem to generate any good ideas.
@@Phintasmo "Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should."
@@rbailey1240 "History has taught us that just because you can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that you *must,* do that thing." ~ Federation President Ra-ghoratreii, 2293
The challenge of restriction can be a great energizer of creativity, though I think there's been a great error in Trek production trying to match Star Wars instead of advancing Star Trek. This started in 2009 when JJ Abrams who admitted to not being a big Star Trek fan was given the film because the studio wanted Star Trek to be more like Star Wars.
As many times as Kirk saw his _Enterprise_ in the original series taken over, you would _think_ he would have been beyond paranoid about even the slightest hint of odd behavior from any Starfleet vessel.
he was complacent; but remember Checkov was the first officer of the Reliant; Kirk would know that. I think that played a part as well
if it was not for a former officer that was under his command at one time he would have had the shield up sooner. That the issue with fleet on fleet battles. You may know some of the other side and that will slow your reaction. Think M5 were Commodore wesley could have blown the enterprise up. If he did not know KIRK she{ enterprise} would have been a dead duck
@@warp103 He should have had the shields up anyway the moment _Reliant_ was behaving atypically, no matter who he knew to be aboard that ship. Maybe all the times Kirk had lost control of the _Enterprise_ in the past was the reason Starfleet put that regulation in effect in the first place.
@@The_Fat_Controller. Or he was very rusty having not commanded the Enterprise for awhile, and having not left the desk throughout her refit.
He must be getting senile
Operation Return from DS9 is also great. And it is basically the opposite of the Star Trek 2 battle, since it was inspired by the (cavalry) charge of the light brigade. 🤩
It does something else as well. All too often, we see antagonists give the protagonists a way out for no obvious reason. But here, there was something that gave Kirk some negotiating power and allowed him to develop a way out.
I can't imagine the rage Khan must have felt in that split second when the Enterprise warps away. Unfortunately, he didn't have the time to contemplate his folly, KABOOM!!!
Scotty: I can't change the laws of physics:
Movie writers and CGI artists: Watch us do it!
It wasn't until DS9/VOY and now STP that the special effects guys could show just how fast and maneuverable Trek Fleet ships, shuttles and fighters really are.
The issue is Trek moved towards dog fighting in space like Star Wars and Babylon 5, vs understanding the distances that are in play. While in Wrath of Kahn showed really close battles (I think mostly for visual reasons and parallel to the old naval battles) but the strategy is with ships that are hundreds of thousands of miles apart. Where light speed of the phasers would be slow enough for a ship to evade.
The Wrath of Khan is the ultimate Star Trek space battle blending action and intelligence. The only other battle to come even close is also mentioned in this video the battle between the Enterprise and the Bird of Prey in Balance of Terror was "TOS" equivalent of the battle in The Wrath of Khan.
The most underrated trilogy of all time is Star Trek 2 through Star Trek 4
It was "Run Silent, Run Deep" in space. No big whoop.
I'd be interested to hear your take on Star Trek 6 seeing as how it was directed by the same Nicholas Mayer
I always enjoyed star trek: the motionless pictures / star trek: the still... But I could also see and appreciate how not everyone (people who didn't grow up reading these Starfleet technical manual, Starfleet medical manual and Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise along with all the timeEscape & other novels) find it as engrossing and as admiring of the mellow and not tap dancing on your brain force-fed Sledgehammer subtle explosions for exposition people seem to classify as entertainment nowadays
How many times Kirk and Picard refuse to raise shields when something is obviously wrong is amazing.
I think janeway gave the borg more than a handful, especially when future janeway came to fight.
Yes, this was excellent. I like The Voyage Home a little better because of the humor. The suspense of new discovery is my favorite genre. The Expanse is outstanding for this. The greatest SCI-FI is Stargate. 10 years of amazing creativity with some humor as well.
I couldn't agree more 😊
I would love a new showing at the movies. A modern screaming would be awesome.