The Attack of Khan: assessing the damage to the Enterprise
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2023
- In this video, we consider the damage inflicted on the Enterprise by the Reliant in what is probably two of the best starship fights in all of 'Star Trek', and we wonder, why didn't the Reliant's weapons do more damage?
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They didn't forget about the phasers going through the warp drive. After Kirk drops the Reliants shields and cripples her, Khan yells to fire and Jachim informs him, "We can't fire sir! They've damaged the Photon Controls and the Warp Drive. We must withdraw!" Kirks attack was just as precise taking out the two systems that would end the engagement. The ability to launch the torpedoes AND the warp drive cutting out phaser power. As to Scott's 'a few shots' I'm guessing he had some way of using the emergency batteries which would be likely against regulations.
Obviously Reliant didn't get Scotty's memo on the warp engine phaser bypass circuit Enterprise had fitted. 🙂
@@Penfolduk001 How else would you get a reputation as a miracle worker? :D
You know Scotty wasn’t an obvious design flaw stay
That was more or less my explanation as well. The phasers normally draw from the the warp core, but with a little trickery you can pull power from elsewhere.
Phaser capacitor / battery. Which the reliant just drained. Hence no backup phaser power. It has lower maximum power output being a smaller ship as is so takes longer to recharge, plus, inexperienced crew.
Also, to the creator, there's two torpedo rooms. Port and starboard, which is incredibly evident by the fact there is only one loading system per room.
I always thought Star Trek works best when they maintain the naval theme. A star ship is more like a submarine than an aircraft.
Space battleship Yamato (better know as star blazers) did this very well.
They even mentioned being „on the coast” of a planet instead of in orbit.
that was essentially what they were going for in the episode "balance of terror." it was loosely based of the ww2 film "the enemy below."
Yeah, though the whole thing of the Enterprise rising above Reliant and then doing a descending turn, rather than just...pitching down shooting at Reliant's roof is a bit much for me.
Like I really dig how serious the movie is about "starfleet is a space navy complete with bosuns whistles" but they are space ships capable of maneuvering with six degrees of freedom in an environment with no inherent up or down, and the plot specifically demands "three dimensional thinking."
More like a ship than sub
@@rudolphguarnacci197 I used submarine because anything in space is basically underwater, it has to carry its own atmosphere.
It's actually interesting to think about. Imagine you want to travel to Pluto with current technology. You have to take enough air to breath to go there and back unless you have some way of mining the components from the planet you visit.
Producer: "Why don't the Reliant's phasers cause more damage?"
Writer: "So the story can continue"
Producer: "Having stories that continue is tight!"
This.
"Pitch Meetings" references are super easy, barely an inconvenience.
This vid explains it perfectly. Khan did not want to risk doing too much damage and possibly kill Kirk. He probably wanted to take the Enterprise and only wanted to do as much damage as needed.
Haha. Yes. TYTE!
WOW WOW WOW WOW WOWWY WOW......WOW.
If you watch the yellow alert scene in the first encounter with Khan, spock charges the phasers before the battle begins by literally using a panel labelled "PHASER CHARGING" (at least that clip is included in my director's cut version of the film). Apparently a capacitor was used along with the TMP warp engine bypass circuitry. Spock was no doubt charging those capacitors.
In fact you actually see them divert power from the warp core to charge the phasers. It’s a good piece of writing/directing by Meyer. When Saavik “energises the defence fields” it provides essential power where needed for an immediate conflict without looking as though they’re taking an aggressive stance. It sets up a way for Enterprise to fight back after it’s been battered.
It'd be nothing new, just them going back to the less powerful, but tried and true charging of the phaser banks, like that seen in "The Doomsday Machine", and this would still allow for direct from warp core power boost.
@@scwebb Actually if you looks closely at the panel where the defense fields are energized it seems to be an internal security cross section. I think what she is activating are low powered shields meant to stop boarding parties from beaming into critical areas and taking them over.
@@luminaire4946 Fifth shot after she says “energise defence fields” a hand (Saavik’s or another crew member) activates a series of 4 buttons on a panel that says “Phaser Charging” that lights up “Warp Power” in red and “Ready” in green (ish) - I interpret that to mean power from the warp core is being diverted to charge the phasers for an initial burst. Once those phasers are discharged, there’s no more power for another volley because the warp drive is damaged. Hence Scotty saying he can give Kirk “a few shots” - the phaser banks are already charged.
In fact, looking at a 4K version it also says underneath “Warp Power Transfer”.
Star Trek II is one of the greatest movies ever made. Even though it had a vastly reduced budget compared to TMP, ILM did a masterful job, true dedication to the craft of model minatures, and breath taking special effects that still stand the test of time. I salute them. Combined with the dramatic theme and story telling, TWOK is a classic of movie making at it's best. Nicolas Meyer did a fantastic job, and would again with ST VI TUC. TWOK will always be my favourite Star Trek movie. Thank's for making this viedo, great job.😊
I agree
I've said this many times elsewhere, but if you ever get a chance to watch this movie in a theatre - the bigger, the better - take it. You won't be disappointed.
I know it was never mentioned in the movie but the toxic gas was actually engine coolant for the warp drive. The Energizer being bypassed like a Christmas tree would have meant bypassing damaged circuts to restore some power. Which is probably the best they could do given the time constraints they had to work with.
I always imagined that there were wires and cables draped around the core components making it look like lights and garland.
@@ronnieb8382
Yup. I also imagine Janeway flippantly doing this to alien ships every week, when she casually orders her crew to 'take out their weapons and engines'. The 'shoot them in the leg' trope.
Actually, it would make more sense if Scotty is referring to the bypass display board, which is lit up like a Christmas tree
@@DAYNURSERY so I did some online searching and from what I found it seems that when he says that the enegizer is bypassed like a Christmas tree, they literally had to bypass the actual energizer to get power back. And that bypass could conceivably look like a Christmas tree lit up on displays. Sadly we'll never know exactly for sure.
@@Thumper79good points, I never really thought about what Scotty has to do, I just thought maybe the indicators were flashing or solid red and green, red for damaged and green as in good
7:50 The next weapon wasn't a torpedo, the Enterprise returned fire with her port phaser banks in response to this, hitting Reliant very close to the bridge.
Exactly 💯
And killing Khan's daughter at helm/nav position....sadly not canon, but you kinda figure cuz she looked a bit like a hot young redhead McGyver and was given an important position on the bridge. Noo! Baee! 😭😭😭 God, that actress was so hot, I fell in love with that no-name bad girl when I was about 7.
@@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 Fun Fact: They used porn stars for a lot of the extras on the Reliant since they were supposed to be genetically enhanced specimens.
@@logicplague Giggity.... I mean... holy hell, I could see that. The girl at the Nav/Helm station and her looks was seriously hawt. We are all one happy fleet! (I've been wanting to do my own analysis video on her entire character-or the lack thereof, for years)
Yup! Also when the Enterprise does fire torpedoes later on, they are only from the undamaged starboard launcher. In fact, only the starboard launcher is used by the Enterprise in all subsequent scenes, going all the way to the Enterprise's destruction in the next movie. Spock's casket is launched from the starboard launcher (so his funeral is in the undamaged starboard torpedo room), and only the starboard launcher is fired during the Enterprise's brief attack on the Klingon bird-of-prey over the Genesis Planet in "The Search for Spock." Evidently the damage to the port launcher was so extensive it was never operational again.
Its worth noting as the Enterprise limps home at the start of ST3 she has a lot of damage on the starboard side too. Apparently the filmmakers didn't think she looked damaged enough from the previous film so added more.
Leonard Nimoy had said he wanted the ship to have a "pained look" limping home.
lol. That was always an annoyance to me.
I vaguely think some comics or novels (or just fanfiction) postulate an engagement taking place between the end of ST2 and the beginning of ST3, but I don't recall enough specifics to give examples, so it may have just been people making suggestions on internet forums.
There are quite a few off-screen weapons impacts. That's always been my head cannon. You just don't see them on screen but by the dramatic bridge shaking, etc.
If you look closely at the MSD that is displaying the damage when Kirk and Spock go to it after ordering the damage report it clearly shows the damage to the starboard side of the engineering hull as later displayed in STIII. Most people state the powers that be simply omitted the extra damage due to budgetary constraints. Later in STIII they had the ability and budget to actually show how badly Khan had damaged the Enterprise.
If you notice, the Enterprise torpedo bay is separated into a port side and starboard side. Only the torpedo bay on the starboard side was fired in later combat and it is safe to say this is where Spock's funeral was conducted. I would say that for safety, there would be a substantial divider between the port side and starboard side tubes in case of an accident in one tube so it would not affect the other
You could also assume that the Enterprise has some level of physical armor that separates the torpedo room from the outside world. Similar to how gun turrets and magazines on real world war ships have those areas more heavily armored to keep it from taking out larger parts of the ship once hit.
Thew main energizer is the original term for warp core, and actually makes more sense. While the 'warp core' does feed plasma to the warp nacelles it also powers the rest of the ships systems through the EPS taps creating electricity through MHD. It literally energizes the ship. Aux power comes from the impusle fusion reactors located right by the impusle engines.
Is it the original term? It only gets a single mention in TOS, from what I remember
the original enterprise was powered by five year old scotch and scottys sweat.
Yeah, from what I've gathered, the engine-transmission combo in a car is just called a drive train. In the Enterprise it means the same thing, only the Engine is the Warp Core and the main energizer is the transmission which converts the high RPM (in this case a frikkin anti-matter reactor) into useful energy, making the ship go.
Main energizer turns it into Electro-Plasma which runs through conduits and hits EPS taps, converting it into electrical power to run their EVERYTHING.
So, if you get struck in the transmission, your engine can't do shit.
Spock went into it's control room, realigned the crystals by hand, and repowered the main lines shipwide. "Bless you Scotty, GO SULU!"
@@shadowpoet4398 oh my!
I never really understood the idea of warp core. Its just the junction where matter and antimatter interact and are funneled through the dilithium crystals to create plasma. Warpy stuff does not happen until the plasma hits the warp coils up in the nacelles. This goes against lots of technobabble in TNG.
In the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, after Kirk questioned Decker for countermanding his phaser order and accepting his explanation, Kirk ordered Scotty to install a circuit to allow the phasers to be used should the warp engines be unavailable. I'm presuming that the circuit came in handy when Khan attacked and disabled Enterprise's warp drive. As for where power for the phasers came from when Kirk counterattacked... probably from the emergency batteries that were powering the ship after the torpedo strike. From what I understand, those are in the saucer section.
is the energizer some sort of power relay?
@@raven4k998 The Energizer is the Warp Core
@@TheBrainSquared are you sure it's not the main power transfer from the warp core cause if the warp core took a hit why didn't it breach from taking a direct hit then?🤔
@@raven4k998 Plot Armor, breaches weren't mentioned until TNG.
Scotty probably drew power from the impulse fusion generators, the glowing dome at the rear of the saucer section, to power the phasers. In my head cannon drawing from the impulse engines would cause the phasers to be less effective then drawing from the warp core. In latter trek we do see that once the warp core goes offline or is ejected ships lose main power. Which means you only have the impulse fusion generators and what ever reserves to power secondary systems.
Another interpretation of the Christmas tree quip is that the status boards were full of red and green lights; Systems bypassed and rewired around red (dead) regions, to make the green parts operational enough to keep things going. Or the "pile of wiring" metaphor. Either works, I think.
That’s exactly what I always thought. Red lights and green lights.
And when you take one bulb out, they ALL go Out!
Not the big, old fashioned Christmas tree lights commonly used, both in door and outdoor, in the 1960s and early to late 1970s. Those strings could have every light in the string out except for one bulb and it would still light if the string was plugged in.
🎄🎄🎄
exactly, branches around the hurt areas until they can be fixed
Referance to the “Christmas Tree” in engineering might be from either the US Navy or the Royal Navy submarine forces.
If I recall correctly, it is a referance to an control board with green and red lights that indicates the status of one or the other following systems: a system that monitors the status of all vents and hatches that allow water to enter into the submarine. A check of the “Christmas Tree” indicates whether the boat is ready to take on water to create negative buoyancy.
Or it refers to a control panel that indicates the status of the tubes housing the missiles carrying the nuclear payloads on a SSBN, a US submarine, more commonly called a “Boomer”.
I could be wrong, but I think that Star Trek:TWK writers may have lifted this term from those sources.
🖖🏼
In canon I've always believed phasers were meant for draining shields and targeting specific sub systems and weren't really meant for causing wide scale damage, that was the job of photon torpedoes which could use their kinetic energy to punch through the hull and then explode into the interior.
That's how it works in Star Trek Online anyway 😀
In reality it's probably just yet another example of Roddenberry not caring much about continuity.
also short-range secondary weapons vs. long-range primary…
Torpedoes are cruder and more powerful, but phasers have been shown doing very wide-scale damage, and have been selected to do so over and above torpedoes.
For example, in TMP, Kirk ordering use of phasers to destroy the asteroid in the wormhole as first weapon of choice. In the Mirror Universe, the phasers were first choice for planetary bombardment to destroy entire Halkan cities in "Mirror, Mirror".
Phasers also generally can be much more finely tuned to the type of damage they cause, including even stunning large groups of people from orbit. o as a utility weapon, they're much better as a go-to choice simply because you can disable or turn then into a tool to do work with. Torpedoes can, but their utility is limited.
Logically, it should be the other way around. Photon Torpedoes, with their massive blast radius and longer range, should be the shield breakers. Then, as the ships move in closer, the phasers could deliver more precise damage to specifically targeted areas, for either full-powered finishing blows, or low-powered surgical strikes. Phasers being an energy weapon would have a more limited range,... but then, in TOS, Photon Torpedoes were energy weapons too, so take from that what you will.
That's not how photon torpedoes work, Buddy. When they approach the target, the magnetic field isolating the antimatter is dropped. Matter and Antimatter annihilate each other in a such a way the energy is directed at the target just like an RPG against a tank.
Phasers do cause a lot of damage, but the main difference between a Miranda Class Light Cruiser and a Constitution Class Battle cruiser is the hull armor. They have the same shields, photons and saucer phasers. The Miranda has a pulse phaser cannon (like the Defiant's in DS9), used as a regular phaser in the movie. The Enterprise's hull can take far more punishment than the Reliant's.
Hope I helped :)
I think everyone's forgetting that the last thing Khan wanted to do was destroy the Enterprise at that point.
Merely to disable her weapons and prevent her warping out.
Khan had already raided the Regula station and, finding the databanks wiped of Genesis data, tortured and executed the remaining crew when they wouldn't tell him where the Genesis device had gone.
So he left the mind-controlled Chekov and Terrell on Regula to be discovered and see whether they could lead him to the device. Which they did.
As for Reliant withdrawing after being damaged. Khan's plan was to have overwhelming superiority. But Kirk managed to catch him with his pants down.
Joachim realised that Khan's hatred of Kirk might lead him to continue the fight. Which would destroy the chances of obtaining Genesis. So he used the damage as an excuse to break off the engagement and allow the original plan to play out.
He couldn't exactly say "But Khan, what about the secret plan we already have in motion?" As... spoilers.
This also explains any comparative lack of damage from Reliant's phasers and photon torpedo. The aim was to keep Enterprise in the cats paw to play with.
Also, I believe there's an old military adage that you never want to get into a fair fight if you can avoid it.
Meaning that ideally you strike with massively superior force.
The damage to Reliant made it too much of a fair fight. Also why Enterprise entered the Mutara Nebula. To put both ships on roughly the same footing and eliminating any advantage Khan had.
Good points, I'll point out if Enterprise damaged their warp and photon controls they couldn't fire since the phasers are powered by the warp drive and it was damaged and of course with photon control damaged no torpedoes. Khan was masterful in his sneak attack except too cocky and prideful and Kirk was lucky only because they knew about the prefix code and Khan either didn't or dismissed it as not important, imagine if he would have found the override
@@Penfolduk001"If you get into a fair fight, both sides have already fucked up."
"In Scotty we trust"
Truer words were never spoken. The Enterprise would never have survived without him.
I seem to remember a specific reference Scotty made about being able to give Kirk a few phaser shots using emergency battery power. That would explain why the Enterprise was able to fire with a disabled warp core and, initially, reduced power. Partial main power would also explain the lack of devastating power in the nebula.
The entire production uses naval and nautical motifs from the uniforms, to the visuals and the music. The scene of the Enterprise making preparations prior to going into battle in the nebula is a direct call back to scenes of a crew going to general quarters and running out the guns. The back drop of the nebula evokes a scene where two sailing ships are in a fog bank playing cat and mouse maneuvering for the first strike. Plus the funeral at the end is inspired by a classic nautical custom of burial at sea. It was the intention of the director to use these motifs to ground the story with something that people are familiar with.
As for Reliant's phasers not performing the way one would expect in the nebula, it could be a couple of things. One, Reliant's system may have been damaged more so than what was made known. Considering that Khan's people were not thoroughly familiar with Reliant's systems (and how to repair them), that is plausible. Two, phaser performance may have been degraded when they were inside the nebula. And third, the plot just demanded it. We can't have Khan landing the first strike that turned out lethal and destroyed the Enterprise.
I feel like this takes things too literally to ONLY on screen, among other issues. First off, we saw the initial attack yes, but there were sounds and vibrations that suggested other hits. I seem to recall we saw other points of damage visible in other shots as well later in the movie. So I think it is VERY likely the Reliant took other shots we didn't see. All they needed were a few pot shots on the indicated areas to cause damage to key systems. The final torpedo could have very well severed key relays or even damaged the auxiliary generators, though not enough to destroy them or even keep them down for long. The Reliant could have easily been maneuvering around the Enterprise off screen to land these hits during the chaos of what we DO see on screen.
The phaser shots have a wide range of reasons where the power came from. Even from Yellow Alert, we saw the phaser banks being charged. That power could have still been there, ready for the first shots, and even had a dedicated battery for them for just such a situation. Perhaps undamaged it would be MORE powerful, but those few shots could have still managed plenty of damage.
We frequently see in Trek that unshielded targets are still not obliterated, even by Starfleet phasers. It usually takes a concentrated stream to do that. Further, I would totally see Khan pulling his punches early out of ego, going for targets that would disable, not destroy, so he could gloat later.
The torpedo room is a total miss. There are TWO rooms. We see an airlock and everything on the other side in some shots. Port side is gutted, starboard side is untouched. As for that shot not doing "more damage", it was a shot that was never concentrated on one spot, and TOS hull always felt more robust than TNG, so I could totally see a blow that never gets to "bore" into the hull would only go into the port torpedo room.
In fact, most of the shots we "see" from the Reliant never really concentrate on one spot. It's always strafing along the hull in pulses, not a focused beam. That alone would diminish the damage. And those "defense fields" could have done way more than we give them credit for. We never really get them explained. It is just priming the shields, or are they separate defensive barriers? And if the latter, they could have made a difference in damage taken.
Overall, sorry to say, I find this breakdown a pretty big miss overall.
Massive miss. Did he even watch the movie again while writing this?
The reliant shots went thru the thin neck to the other side. Have you seen that video which measures incidence angle and output angle and it aligns perfectly with the reliant position and beam positions?
The Aircraft carrier U.S.S. Enterprise in WWII also had an uncanny knack of walking away from battles even if it did get damaged.
There are two torpedo rooms, right next to each other. Port torpedo room is trashed, but not the starboard. At the end, when they shoot off the coffin/torpedo, the starboard tube is used. ruclips.net/video/eVIt0DYKssI/видео.html
Indeed 👍he needs to watch the movie again 🖖
No, there are not 2 rooms. I can see why people would assume that. There is one torpedo room that arms and feeds torpedoes into a chamber that splits into a u-shaped launch tube (we see Spock's casket go into the chamber before the split) Once in this chamber the torpedo is moved to port or starboard. (The area between the tubes is where the vertical intermix chamber passes up and down the ship) There the tubes stage up to 3 torpedoes port and 3 starboard for multiple launch capability.
When we see the explosion in the torpedo room, it is collateral of the port observation room and docking port experiencing explosive decompression.
The port side hatch (In the movie when Kirk boards, the port is labeled Docking Port 4) The port side hatch opens into an airlock, (which Kirk is exiting) through which one may enter directly to the torpedo bay, or head aft to the turbolift lobby or forward to a small observation lounge. The starboard side of the torpedo room has a similar docking/airlock but the forward area is a small cargo room.
The torpedo section is actually on 2 decks, torpedo storage is L deck (Level 12) While the big torpedo room (which we see in the movie) is on M deck (Level 13). Looking at the neck of the ship from the side, L deck is the front part of the neck (the only part of the ship exterior that is vertical above the lauch ports). M is the wider section that has the sleek wider curved section that holds the airlocks and torpedo room. (You may also note that this section is the same width as the bridge module.)
I hope someone appreciates that I opened a very big old technical manual to verify this information before posting this.
And poor Scotty, always left to pick up the pieces. Even with a dead nephew to deal with as well.
Ah Peter will keep while Scotty fixes stuff. McCoy just stuffed him in a stasis field
good thing he brought him to the bridge first and not sickbay. Hauling him up a ladder since the Turbolift's were out below C deck 😅
Bruh. Goosebumps. I loved this movie since I was a child, and you found a way to make me appreciate it even more. I freaking love this movie!
On so many levels! Look what they did on a shoestring budget! And Ricardo Monalban! Why did Scotty bring his nephew to the bridge??
The lighting on this model is incredible. What the hell? You can recreate the shots to look even better than the original movie...more dynamic movements of the ship and faster speeds. Incredible work
Re the Enterprise phasers being routed through the warp drive. Yes, that was dialogue in ST:TMP.
But in the novelisation, written by Gene Roddenberry so can be considered canon, Decker had already noticed the problem the shipyard engineers created and was already working on a bypass circuit to enable the phasers to work without the warp engines.
Even though Decker didn't get chance to do that, Scotty would have almost certainly designed and fitted it afterwards.
All they were doing was going back to the old phaser bank recharge system. See Scotty recharging the Constellation's phasers in "The Doomsday Machine"
I've also always considered Decker's "channeled through the main engines" to be somewhat imprecise. What he probably meant is the phasers tap power from the warp core, aka "main energizer". This makes sense in context, as the "warp engines" are technically the nacelles mounted on the pylons, used to generate a warp field. There would be no obvious advantage to routing phasers through the nacelles.
THANK YOU for not fixating on the thin neck of the refit Connie. It’s obviously made out of stronger material, but people just can’t stop using ape brain when thinking about it.
Nick Myers confirmed this was "Hornblower in space" and that all of the similarities to nautical ships, uniforms, etc. was very intentional. Also, awesome.
it could be that Yellow Alert includes charging capacitors for the phasers. Once warp drive is out, that's all the phasers have left in them, a few shots worth. This may be similar to the transporter system, enough juice already in the system for one bout
And it might be possible to connect the phasers to the "grid" of the rest of the saucer section while damaging ancillary systems in the process.
which is what Spock did by literally pressing a button that says charging
That's literally a scene showing Saavik and Sulu hitting literal marked phaser charging buttons and then crew operating other controls to bring up the defense fields, etc.
@@nowhereman1046 see there you go. Those are the few shots
@@bostonrailfan2427 forgive me, it's been a few months since I last saw it
Just the other week I had a bourbon educed need to watch this gem again, and it was fantastic. I'd recommend it. Also, it never ceases to amaze me how well ILM effects hold up.
They don't just hold up, they look better than anything cgi
so much better than today's crap cgi
Kirk does order shields up just before Khan fires the phasers - maybe the shields were partially raised by the time the phasers hit and this mitigated the damage.
they were, yellow alert makes raising extremely quick but not fast enough if they’re right on you
the shields SHOULD have gone up the moment kirk ordered a yellow alert. Stupid plot hole. I will never accept kirks statement that he got caught with his pants down. The trainee officer at tactical made a mistake and never raised shields.
I think Khan’s order to fire and Kirks order to raise shields were given at the exact same time. This scenes would work better if you split screen the movie and shown them.
@@luminaire4946 DAMN RIGHT ! It's like:
KIRK: "This is damned peculiar. ...Yellow Alert."
SAAVIK: "Energize defence fields."
UHURA: "I'm getting a voice message. They say their Chambers coil is overloading their Comm system."
KIRK: "Spock ?"
SPOCK: "Scanning. Their coil emissions are normal."
ME: "Raise the shields"
JOACHIM: "They still haven't raised their shields."
KHAN: "Raise ours."
SPOCK: "Their shields are going up"
ME: "Raise the shields"
KHAN: "Lock phasers on target."
JOACHIM: "Locking phasers on target."
SPOCK: "They're locking phasers !"
KIRK: "Raise shields !"
ME: "OH DO YOU THINK ?"
@@paulwalsh2344 I don’t mean Kirk should have ordered it. I mean they should have gone up as PART of Kirk ordering yellow alert. They charged phasers but didn’t raise shields? WTF. Kirk didn’t NEED to say “shields up” because that is PART of the yellow Alert status.
The Hornblower comparison was a very deliberate choice on the part of Harve Bennett. The music, the uniforms, the overall more military tone of things compared to the first movie.
In the novelization, it's explained that the Genesis device had a subroutine to create a new star if enough material was available and one was not present. The star seen at the end of the film came from the Mutara nebula as well.
There seems to be enough wiggle room, given Marcus' use of "other dead forms" in the Genesis video. Nebula usually contain enough material for multiple star formation, which is handy.
The torpedo damage to the Enterprise's saucer is visible in the immediate aftermath of the first battle as the Enterprise drifts mostly helpless on battery power while the Reliant is shown coming about in the background to deliver what Khan says will be the death blow to the ship unless Kirk turns himself and all information on the Genesis project over to him. The shot is visible just after the scene where Kirk has Saavik look up the Reliant's prefix code. The damage is also barely visible just after the end of the battle and Scotty has brought his nephew Peter up to the bridge as Enterprise "drifts" around.
Speed of the Enterprise and Reliant after the first battle is not a problem since we know that in TMP, the Enterprise was capable of speeds reaching .73 c or higher just two hours (based on her reaching and then passing Jupiter in that time) after leaving Spacedock (stated as "Warp point five") and then after the wormhole and asteroid incident, she drops back to sublight at a higher velocity of "warp point eight". So, assuming only warp .8, and a day to get to Regula I. They could easily have accelerated to near light speed and thus have been much further out than you estimate they could be using non-canon Encyclopedia material.
Conversely, we know from TOS episodes like "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Mudd's Women" that the Enterprise is capable of low-warp speeds on auxiliary and battery power only. However, this is good for only a few days and so the ship could be a light year or more out. Not enough to limp away from Reliant and get help, but good enough for Enterprise to get to Regula I and then the Mutara Nebula.
The original "warning shot" was not a photon torpedo, but actually a strafing of the Enterprise by the Reliant's phasers. Luckily, at this point, Enterprise has shields. The novelization by Vonda N. McIntyre keeps the phaser strafing scene which makes more sense and shows that Enterprise is in far better shape by this point since her shields repel the attacks from extreme range until she's able to enter and hide in the Mutara Nebula.
You forgot about the Enterprise coming around and attempting to strafe the Reliant from behind, but just barely missing due to an electrostatic disruption but the phasers just brush the Reliant and causes her to immediately list to port. A rather interesting effect given she masses hundreds of thousands of metric tons like Enterprise does.
I can guess that you've understated the importance of the defense fields, which seem to do for the Enterprise and presumably Reliant what polarized hull plating did for the old NX-class, and we know from TNG's "The Chase" that structural integrity fields can also act as a kind of shield that minimizes damage from phaser fire. During yellow alert and red alert, these fields are boosted to maximum power and would explain the reduced damage. On top of this, when Jochim reports to Khan about repairs he proudly exclaims "Impulse power restored!" and Khan then gloats "More than a match for poor Enterprise." However, this took place after Spock's fake, coded message to Kirk making it seem as though Enterprise was worse off than she was. So, given their limited numbers and experience, Khan's crew probably put their full effort into restoring impulse power, not weapons, thinking that was enough.
An external shot showing that torpedo impact was storyboarded, but never filmed. I guess they ran out of budget along the way, which explains why they had to lift the drydock scene from Motion Picture wholesale
I always thought the damage to the underside of the saucer was caused by the high impact debris created by the initial attack on engineering. Without shields, exploding debris from the main section could damage the saucer section above. The torpedo strike looks like It's hitting the upper starboard section, based on the default orientation of a view screen perspective, directly ahead. There doesn't seem to be any damage in this spot, so if the view screen is an aft perspective, it isn't obvious, but you can briefly see the torpedo come in at a downward trajectory and then briefly move up in the corner of the view screen before the explosion.
It was from the torpedo. It was probably a proximity detonation and not a direct impact which would have really sucked.
I don't know. The original interpretation based on the viewer being ahead always makes it seem that the Reliant orbited around Enterprise and dropped a torpedo off as they turned of the starboard bow. But the interpretation that Reliant kept straight after their initial strafe and then fired the torpedo as they turned starboard off of Enterprise's port quarter and then looped back around to be head to head also works very well. I think it fits with the scene as well. The Reliant only makes right turns on screen, so to fire from the starboard bow of Enterprise they'd need to rapidly go around the ship twice and it introduces the mystery of where the photon torpedo hits.
But if they strafed once, fired a torpedo as they turned then came back around to be bow to bow then all of that is resolved. And it makes sense that the viewer would lock on to an attacking vessel.
Also there wasn't any chunk blasted off of the stardrive section that could account for such a huge scorch in the armor, it's much more consistent with direct torpedo strikes like what we saw in The Undiscovered Country.
Nah. It's from the photon torpedo. The debris on the bridge even flies from an impact from that directions. The torpedo just barely made contact with the underside of the saucer if at all. It was most likely a non-contact "air burst".
@@NorthernChev It probably was a proximity detonation. Khan didn't want to immediately destroy the destroy the Enterprise so that is why all of the hits from from Reliant weren't meant to instantly destroy Enterprise.
@@4thdoctor284 ...the phaser hits, though, from the Reliant did less damage because it's a Miranda Class ship, which were science and supply ships. They are not equipped with the same powerful phasers as a Constitution or Constitution II Class...
The Reliant’s phasers could be being attenuated in some way by the nebula. Or maybe there’s some shenanigans going on with the structural integrity fields.
Reliant is operating with battle damage as well...
Correct. Phasers can also be over-saturated by about 10% for extra "punch", however damage to the system is likely. This can be seen repeatedly in the Starfleet Command late 1990's games. Phasers need to be energized like capacitors and then discharged, and the amount of charge is variable like handheld phaser settings.
Reliant is manned by a green crew, many (maybe most) of which are young and have never been on a star ship or got much of an education in their marooned environment. Even Khan himself while ultra intelligent was lacking in starship operation or combat experience as noted by Spock's tactical recommendation to capitalize on this deficiency: "He is intelligent but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking." Khan and crew were simply unable to wring the maximum amount of destructive force from the weapons systems.
"structural integrity fields" weren't a thing until the advent of the Excelsior class
The nebula would have almost certainly affected the range and power of the phasers due to the dust and gasses that make up the nebula.
The nautical analogy sounds great....the battle can be reimagined on an ocean, Kahn as an evil pirate, Kirk as a naval admiral, sailships HMS Reliant, HMS Enterprise with cannons firing broadside
If you look at it from a Naval point of view, one could argue that Reliant was a Heavy Cruiser, and that Enterprise was a Battlecruiser (The Klingons even call her that in ST3) and as a result she simply had less powerful guns. This would explain why Enterprise received a lot of damage due to sustained fire (roughly the same armour scheme as Miranda), as opposed to Reliant who was later shredded (Due to Enterprises more powerful guns).
The 8 cylinder vs the V6 turbo. Miranda was the lower cost replacement with the newest tech.
Please follow up with the battle in ST3 and the self-destruct.
NO. TOO SOON.
The christmas tree reference is scotty talking about the power being rerouted through multiple sections. lights on the tree, to the main area, star at the top. Also meaning that if one light goes out the whole thing goes out.
Excellent take on Star Trek II. As a side note Turner Classic Movie once featured "Run Silent, Run Deep." at the end of the movie the host reports that Nicholas Meyer's Star Trek II battle scene's are directly inspired from that classic movie. If you watch the two movies you will realize that when Spock says Khan reflects 2-Dimensional thinking he's saying that the Enterprise should dive like a sub.
NCC1701 refit has 2 toroedo rooms. Also having been doing duty as a cadet training ship, she spent time near home and got the phaser design flaw fixed. Bypassed like a christmas tree means the horizontal core had been jury rigged to work around the isolation door and-other damage pertaining to the reaction chamber, which ties into “the energizers bypassed like a christmas tree sir. Don’t give me too many bumps.”
This video and the comments about it is why being Star Trek fan was so fun.
Remember Scotty said he didn’t understand why Enterprise wasn’t repaired . So Enterprise wasn’t that bad off . More likely star Fleet wanted her for the star fleet museum
It is probably because The Excelsior class was in final testing and hulls for further ships were probably in the middle of construction. The Constitution refit was at the end of it being able to handle more upgrades for what they were worth in resources and manpower. They were fine keeping fully functioning ships in service but did not care to put much into repairing.
The reason why Kirk had the Enterprise-A that failed the shakedown cruise was because it was probably one of the last being built because of the Excelsior's delay in being finalized due to project scope creep and construction efforts were redirected to Excelsior and so work was unfinished. (Was punishment for Kirk from the Admiralty)
Starfleet did not like the Constitution refit. It was only there because of nothing else. As soon as the Excelsior came out they quickly decommissioned all Constitution ships.
It was just a emergency upgrade to counter the K'tinga class because of prior stated Excelsior wonder ship with transwarp drive was taking too long to developed.
@@akihitokoizumi2474 Also from Starfleets perspective the Miranda class was in full swing. Half the resource cost of the Constitution at over 80% of the capability. The Excelsior (great experiment) was a money sink that eventually gave them a next generation powerful ship class, but not until the Enterprise B time.
Brilliant presentation.
Thank you for bringing this to attention. Many people tend to underestimate the might of the Miranda Class, her weaponry is capable of destroying the Enterprise 3 times over. The reason this did not happen is because it was a failure of her Captain, not because of the vessel herself.
Yeah I know, I am biased... I love the Reliant, one of the sexiest vessels ever to come out of sci fi.
It's always funny that a fan puts in more thinking about the script than the writer or director did.
So awesome somone actually made a video on this. Kudos! Next to Star Trek: The Motion Picture, The Wrath of Kahn is one of my favorite movies. Very cool video!
"Just the batteries Sir!" That's how Scotty would've been able to give Kirk "a few shots"
"Bypassed like a Christmas tree" - it makes sense if we assume the main energizer system is like a parallel bus, with different systems plugged in where removal of one does not affect any other. By contrast, a Christmas tree is a serial connection (remove a bulb and all after the bulbs following go out).
With the main energizer bus out, Scotty has to bypass by connecting the first system directly to power, and then subsequent systems are daisy chained from that. It gets the systems up and running, but if one system is taken out, then the rest of the chain will shut down. He tells the captain about the "Christmas tree" setup so Kirk knows that one hit can take out multiple systems.
In The Alternative Factor, the energisers were used to regenerate the dilithium crystals, which were used to moderate the matter/antimatter reaction. Without the dilithium matrix, there would be no power for the warp drive or the EPS system. In The Doomsday Machine, energisers were also used to supplement the warp drive, suggesting either through a writing fubar or by design, that the energisers were multipurpose. It was only much later (TWOK) that the energisers were inferred to have a much more central role in regulating the power system, for example by supplying power to the magnetic bottle that made up the innards of the warp reactor. Which makes sense. You don't want to have to rely on a single point of failure (the main reactor) to supply power for the control systems, the safety systems, and the monitoring gear. You'd have a secondary, independent power unit much as coal fired power plants use diesel or gas-fired generators to run pretty much everything inside the plant and allow operatives to engage critical safety systems to shut down boilers and turbines while continuing to monitor the pile.
The defense fields are just structural integrity fields and forcefields. I don't believe they just protected certain areas. The console illustrations being powered up, show it running everywhere. So just like the Enterprise D taking a torpedo with shields down, the Reliant didn't have to have weak phasers. Just needed more hits.
Correct , the Deflector grid can be seen powering up , then the Enterprise goes to Yellow alert, and a Separate ring of lights to Represent the Main Sheilds , when the Reliant rases her Shields.
The writers DIDN'T forget the phasers were routed through the warp drive. When Kirk manages to fight off Reliant in the first exchange, Joachim notes to Khan that Enterprise damaged the photon controls and the warp drive.
Why did Enterprise still have phaser power? If you recall, when Saavik activates the defense screens she also charges the phasers. So the phaser banks probably have storage batteries that can hold a charge even if the warp drives are disabled afterwards (which could also explain how she had "a few shots" left; because Enterprise had already charged her phasers so she still had some power "in the tank").
The phasers gain more power by being channeled thru the engines but it is not the only power available. Hence Scott's remark about phaser power. "A few shorts" Mr. Scott says Jocheim probably could have figured out how to power their damaged phasers given time but they were in combat and he didn't have the needed time to figure it out.
The early TOS seasons reference "phaser charging", as if there was something like a plasma capacitor. This is consistent with Scotty's dialogue.
The large scorch mark on the bottom of the saucer is the torpedo strike we see as Kahn's "parting volley" in the turn. You'll note that the entire sensor station is dark after the battle when they approach Regula I. Kahn used the torpedo strike to effectively "blind" the Enterprise because what is at the bottom of the saucer? The navigation and sensor "suite" dome. He was putting a stick in their eye. there's another video called something like "Music and Particles" or something that shows the trajectory of the weapons fire and the movement of the ships in every "action" in Star Trek II.
you forgot about the inertial dampers: inertial dampers absorbed some of the impacts but they also can’t fully absorb the kinetic energy, the blowing of relays causing damage in other locations is common in the shows
and there were TWO bow-facing torpedo tubes, only the port side was hit allowing them to use the starboard side
Everything about the film is great. For one, as here, Nick Meyer's inspiration from Hornblower/naval warfare etc. Reliant's hit a fantastic 23rd century version of a broadside.
The main energizer is bypassed like a christmas tree thru the Impulse fusion power auxilliary network, they are not intended to hold the power of main power from the Warp core, but it is what it is
A few comments:
In the initial action, on the first battle pass, Reliant only fires her port side rollbar ("siege") phaser, not both mounts.
I really think you have a good explanation with Khan pulling his punches. I think the Reliant using low power in that initial engagement is a very solid interpretation. He's striking with precision against an unsuspecting target. He's striking surgically.
The very first weapon we see Khan wield in Space Seed is a scalpel. So that continued motif of careful but lethal cuts resonates with the character.
As for phaser power routed through the mains, the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture features a moment where Kirk instructs Decker to find some way to bypass the mains so phasers can be fired when warp is in imbalance or out of commission. I think I recall seeing a filmed version of this moment in some cut or other of the movie? But I'm sure the real reason is the concept of no mains/no phasers was simply discarded or not known by the writer.
Another note about phaser power, the game Star Fleet Battles may provide a potential explanation. When Kirk orders "Yellow Alert" he effective upgrades the readiness of the ship to a state the game calls Weapon Status II. As a default part of this readiness status, the ship's phaser capacitor is fully charged. This would allow the residual power to be used for "a few shots" of phasers, but no other function.
Now for the photon torpedo as Reliant retreated. For some reason it never occurred to me that it hit that bruised part on the underside of the primary hull, but that makes perfect sense as that blast mark can't really be explained any other way. The only thing against it is how the photorp shot looks on the main viewscreen. The way it's framed makes it look like the torp approaches from above with the implication it strikes somewhere on the top of the saucer in front of the bridge. But the damage is where the damage is.
An interesting note is that Kruge looks to hit the same area except from above when the Bird of Prey strikes the Enterprise with a torp in Star Trek III. Striking that area completely disables the ship. In 3 it is implied to be because the automation center has been disabled, but the result of being dead in space is the same. Another tidbit is that in both cases, the impulse drives are still shown to be lit up in the shot, so they're still "active" just not useable.
In addition to possibly studying the refit Enterprise refit, Khan also had knowledge of the original Constitution- Kirk gave him access to that info in the TOS episode in which Khan is featured.
Even if Reliant didn't have the refit schematics aboard, Khan would know enough from his TOS days to at least know where engineering precisely was, and how much a direct hit on it would hurt.
You forgot some things in your very good analysis. The episode Space Seed and the first Motion Picture. In Space Seed, Kahn studied the then pre-refit version of the Enterprise and it was that knowledge that gave him a basic understanding of how the ships worked. You could argue he studied the new ships after he took Reliant, but we didn't see that, and it was never mentioned. It was specifically mentioned in Space Seed. In the Motion Picture, they did state the refit version as "This is almost a totally new Enterprise." All systems were upgraded and enhanced. Kahn was not trying to unalive Kirk at that first meeting. He was simply trying to disable the ship so that he could gloat about beating Kirk. Auxiliary power control I think was run through the Impulse engines on the saucer section. Kirk was trying to end Kahn when they returned first striking directly at the Impulse area of Kahn's ship (Reliant's engine room). That's why they could not turn around and return fire (partially). Yes, the phasers from Reliant should have sliced the saucer section completely away from the main hull. By the time both ships fought in the nebula, both we under powered and that's where Kirk got lucky. Great Stuff and Awesome animations. Yes, I am a fan.
I asked the Writer/Director Nick Myers myself about the red blinking lights on the MSD display. He told me this showed were Power Relays had blown out. Just it was not written in dialogue
Given that the pre-refit Enterprise was supposed to be able to lay waste to an entire planetary surface in a matter of hours, that the refit made her phasers over six times more powerful and that the reliant had even more powerful phasers, I always wondered why that first salvo against an unshielded hull didn't go clean through the entire engineering hull.
Starfleet hulls seem VERY strong honestly.
Hey great discussion and breakdown on one of the best encounters in one of the greatest Star Trek movies made, I thoroughly enjoyed your views on this, I have often wondered the same when watching this movie over and over, it's a shame that someone wasn't paying more attention to the finer details. Thanks for the video!
That was one of my favorite movies. I love your interpretation of it.
As to the lack of damage to the torpedo room for Spock's funeral scene and Enteprise using torpedoes against Reliant...
If you pay attention, the directors didn't really forget. Enterprise has *two* torpedo launchers facing forward. The port side launcher was taken out by Reliant's phaser fire in the nebula. Enterprise briefly returns fire with its own phasers and both ships lose track of each other again.
The final scene involves Enterprise firing two torpedoes at Reliant. If you pay attention to that scene, you will notice that both torpedos are launched from the *starboard* launcher, the one that wasn't hit by Reliant's attack. The port side launcher is clearly inoperative, so they are relying on their starboard launcher exclusively there at the end.
Presumably, Spock's funeral scene was held in the starboard side torpedo launcher's bay that wasn't damaged in the battle.
That was well done. As a trekkie from the 60's who stood for hours waiting to buy tickets to the motion picture I have to say that while it's a great movie I watched also in the theater I don't rewatch it now due to Spock's death scene and the worm in the ear thing. The movies had a more profound effect on us when they came out as we didn't know what would come next for star trek especially in regard to Spock. You'd have to have grown up with the original series and the long 15 year wait before the first movie and then go through the long wait between movies to probably understand. I also won't rewatch "Generations". I think I loved it all , too much. hehe.
This is a very good breakdown of the battles as we see them on the screen.
I really enjoy your STAR TREK content. It is very well written and the ships look fantastic
Another possible reason that the Reliant's Phasers don't seem as devistatiing is that the Reliant I beleive was classified as a light cruiser while the Enteprise was classified as a heavy cruiser. This would also be inline with the nautical motif. As an example lets look at 2 WWII war ships, with the USS Atlanta a light cruiser and the USS Baltimore a heavy cruiser standing in for their respective Starfleet counterparts.
The Atlanta with it's 5" guns would be able to cause significant damage to the Baltimore under the right circumstances but would be hard pressed to punch through the Baltimore's 4"-6" thick armor. Contrast that with the Baltimore's 8" guns vs the Atlanta's 1"-2" thick armor.
That is the way that I always envisioned how this fight went a lighter and sigificantly out gunned Reliant using the element of surprise to even out the playing field against a much heavier armed and armored Enterprise.
I my headcanon, and at least according to some of the Star Trek video games that try to codify the battles into a coherent system the reason why phasers sometimes vaporize whole ships and sometimes do as much damage as naval ships exchanging cannon fire is because of the Structural Integrity Field which is sort of another outgrowth of artificial gravity and inertial dampening and just sort of keeps everything together.
Excellent analysis and visuals! Thank you for recapping my favorite battle of the Star Trek movie franchise.
In the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Kirk & Decker discuss the implementation of a circuit that would enable them to bypass the ship's main engines to keep phasers available even if the warp engines were disabled.
As far as I remember; The Constitution Class was a far more resiliant ship than the Miranda Class. At the time, it was one of the most Advanced ship designs in Starfleet. I believe the Miranda Class was also more geared toward scientific expeditions, and was not AS stalwart in combat as the Constitution Class ships. (Its been a while, but I used to have the ship specs for several ships, including both of these. But they are older, from the 80s, so things may have been updated since.)
The key to Kahn's attack was that it was a surprise attack, which gave him an advantage.
the only problem with that, is the model makers gave the Reliant a much more potent weapons loadout than Enterprise. In addition to the massive phaser cannons mounted on the pylons, she also had the saucer mounted emitters. Reliant also sported an obvious pair of aft facing torpedo launchers while Enterprise only had the two forward bays. So Reliant has twice as many photon bays, and two or four extra phaser cannons. She was twice the warship at half the size.
@@emwungarand That's fascinating, I always thought that the Enterprise was the stronger ship loadout wise and the reason Kahn was able to be such a dangerous force was due to his high intelligence and ability to tactically outwit the crew of the Enterprise early on, but his pride and hubris ending up getting the better of him in the end.
Did they change the designs of the ships at some point? Or am I totally misremembering things?? I admit, it's been a very long time since I have seen the ship specs and blueprints of each. The ones I have I believe are packed up in my attic somewhere.
Fantastic video and analysis, sir. Would love to see additional Star Trek videos. : )
Many thoughts have come about as the result of this video:
-The "defense fields", based on the "INTRUDER ALERT" legend on the same display, suggests that it could either be a low-powered set of forcefields for blocking transporters (anti-boarding measures), or a means of boosting structural integrity. Since a torpedo can match or exceed most nuclear weapons at full yield, something had to absorb that kind of power on the saucer hit, since it wasn't ripped clean through.
-Drawing in external references, it has been implied that the Connie I refit was an experiment in a one-source power system: rather than use separate reactor types for its propulsion and electrical power (fusion reactors for impulse and main power, matter/antimatter for warp drive and specialty high-power loads like shields/deflector dish/phasers), the ship would use its warp reactor to satisfy all loads, including heating/ionizing propellant for the impulse engines. The fusion reactors originally built in are retained as auxiliary power, especially if the saucer has to separate. This would explain why the torpedo impact on the saucer would kill auxiliary power, leaving only some dispersed emergency battery supplies.
-If we assume the phasers were modified to no longer need warp power directly supplying them, then it can be assumed that the phasers have capacitor banks to store charge-they can be charged from any power source, but only main or auxiliary power can hope to provide the power necessary to keep them charged or to use full power on firing. Indeed, it may be that those "few shots" were all that auxiliary power could pre-charge before it was lost.
-This battle may in retrospect be why future Starfleet vessels (including the Connie II/Enterprise class) switched to vertical warp cores, as horizontally laid-out cores-especially when so close to the secondary hull's spine-were deemed more likely to be catastrophically damaged early in conflicts (though their inability to be jettisoned without a saucer separation might also be a problem as well).
Utterly fantastic video! Well done!
They probably had some sort of capacitor system for the phasers that had enough juice for a few shots.
One possibility overlooked is that the weapons of the Enterprise class and the Miranda class aren't necessarily the same class of weapon. The Constitution->Enterprise class is probably better classified as a heavy cruiser with the Miranda defined as a light cruiser. In the order of battle, they aren't really the same. In the old FASA Starship Recognition books they don't have the same phasers (though at those ranges it shouldn't really matter).
I was 5 minutes into this presentation before it occurred to me. Obsession looks like entertainment to others of us who are similarly obsessed.
The “bypassed like a Christmas tree” is clearly a reference to the perennial issue of testing the Christmas tree lights, finding out which are faulty and then bodging fixes so the blinky lights look pretty and give comfort.
No doubt the blinky lights were the many warning lights recommending remedial action before the systems are compromised.
Thank you for going in depth with this. i have wondered about what the other damage was ever since. Now I know. 😀
Another Superb video!!! Thank you!
Got to admit this is the very best Star Trek
movie ever made and blows away anything JJ Abrams ever dreamed of.
Very nice video! I loved the visuals and break down. And you're right: this very much is a nautical adventure retold in space!
A couple small points of confusion around the phaser damage to Enterprise's portside torpedo launcher during the Mutara Nebula action. First the next weapon the Enterprise fires is not a torpedo, but its phasers from its port side emitters, striking Reliant just aft of the bridge and killing her entire bridge crew except for Khan.
Second, as to the Enterprise using torpedoes again later in the battle (after both ships break off and re-engage for the final time), both torpedoes are fired from the undamaged starboard launcher, with damage to the port launcher still clearly visible. Then, later, when Spock's casket is launched, it is also launched from the starboard tube, indicating that the funeral scene takes place in the undamaged starboard torpedo room. This seems to indicate that the damage done by Reliant's phasers was absorbed by Enterprise's port torpedo launcher and the outboard compartments on that side, with the starboard side being unaffected.
Also, in an interesting bit of continuity, only the starboard torpedo launcher fires during the fight between Enterprise and the Klingon bird-of-prey in "The Search for Spock," due to the damage from Reliant's phasers still being visible across the port side launcher. Evidently the port launcher remained out of action until the Enterprise was eventually destroyed.
My take was that Reliant was a light cruiser, utilising the element of suprise. Enterprise could take more damage being a heavy cruiser, thus the odds were 'even' in Mutara. Great vid
The 3D and animations. 😍 Excellent video!
Excellent topic! Thank you.
Exceptional. Great job sir!
"🎄I thought Scotty was talking about a Christmas tree in the sense of the string of lights, of the older style, where when one was out, the entire string of lights was also out. And the only way to find out which one was out, you had to literally check each and every single bulb." (-James)
The torpedo room that was damaged was the port side one. The torpedo fired at the Reliant later came from the starboard side
Cool a forensic analysis of the battles.
Great tally, really well supported by your models too 👍
We could also surmise that Since the Enterprise was now in battle the crew were doing all they could to lesson damage to the ship during battle. While Khan pulled his punches in the initial surprise attack (which caused less damage than if at full power), in the nebula defensive force/structural fields and what ever the crew could muster was put into place to lessen damage to the ship. Thus we would get the same effect as when Khan pulled his punches.
According to The Motion Picture novelization phasers also had battery backup implemented after the asteroid incident showed the design vulnerability.
The stratagey of fighting in the nebula is that with all the main systems out or barely working, power requirements such as power for sensors, shields and movement fighting in a nebula make powering those systems unnecessary.
Arming weapons once fully charged only need draw power when recharging, hence, "Sauce for the goose. The odds will be even."
It became a slugfest. Enterprise was injured, Reliant's capabilities reduced.
Great program, thank you for making it.
Yes, TMP established that the phasers were powered by the warp drive. Decker's line was "The Enterprise's redesign INCREASES phaser power by channeling it through the main engines. When they went in to antimatter imbalance, the phasers were automatically cut off." The important word in that line is "increases." So, a fully powered phaser shot would require the warp engines to channel that power. Plus, during the battle, there was no antimatter imbalance. But with less power, you'd only get a few phaser shots. I would also agree with statements others have made about the Enterprise having more battle damage in ST III than at the end of ST II. Specifically, she has the same damage to the starboard side of engineering as she does on the port side as well as some scarring on the warp nacelles. There is also damage to the saucer section's top on the port side behind the bridge (to verify, look at the scenes in ST III where the Enterprise hangs dead in space face to face with the bird of prey and the overhead view as she exits space dock.) Keep in mind that the incident with the Klingons in the novels between these two movies is not a canon story.
As I recall, Spock’s burial tube was shot from the starboard launcher, so the funeral could not have been in the port launch bay. 🖖😀
My uncle was the biggest Star Trek fan I know he would have definitely loved this video🤩 I just made a Stop Motion tribute with one of my Enterprises🎬📸🎞️ hope you enjoy it 🖖🏻
Definitely concurring with you on Khan pulling his punches at first, since he explicitly stated in the first battle that he first meant to deprive the Enterprise of power. He wanted the ship crippled so she couldn't fight back, without killing Kirk, because he wanted Kirk to "know first who it was who had beaten you." So the Reliant's phasers would have been directed deliberately to maximize damage to subsystems but not the Enterprise's structure, possibly not even being used at full power. The torpedo strike causing fire on the bridge was Hollywood dramatic flair, though you could also say that with the trainee crew in panic there were more systems overloading and firing out of control than there should have been. The ship also did take damage to the starboard engineering hull, shown on display in battle but not reflected on the model until The Search For Spock. For further proof of this, after the Reliant's initial phaser sweep across the port is done, the Enterprise continues to shake from weapons impact, not ceasing until Scott manages to get on the comm with Kirk with his first damage report. The ship had to be taking more blows than a single strafe.
As for the battle in the Nebula, neither ship was fighting at full efficiency, what might have been a killing blow to the port side torpedo bay under other circumstances ended up being survivable. Reliant's gunners weren't accurate either, you can see them fire the port side phaser cannon from the rollbar and miss completely.
Superb! Thanks
awesome break down of the battle,
When they use Reliant's prefix code they specifically target the blue dome behind the bridge rather than the bridge itself. The dome is a warp field stabilization dome. In the 23rd century all starfleet ships used warp stabilization fields because they had not yet develeoped a generalized symmetrical warp field. Without this dome the Reliant cannot create a stable warp field. While the warpcore could potentially be brought back online, it would not be able to create a stable warp field. Disabling the Reliants warpdrive disabled its phasers and unless full warp power was restored their phasers would be significantly weakened.
My understanding from Star Fleet Battles game, the Reliant had Phaser-4's which could also shoot as Gatling phasers, which shoot 4 pulses of phaser fire at a target, each shot does less damage, but over-all the damage is higher than regular phaser damage. Gatling phasers were for targeting small nimble ships and getting more shots at it than one big shot. Each hit would cause less damage and be spread throughout a larger area along a bigger ship as each hit is in a different location, thus causing larger area of effect damage, but less damage per area hit. Phaser-4's could shoot as normal phasers or Gatling phaser's. This would explain why the Reliant's shots were in burst's in the first attack and then in the nebula it was one long hit along the torpedo room. They used the phasers as Gatling stile during first attack, then changed to regular phaser attack inside the nebula. Of course the Star Fleet Battles game isn't cannon, but it makes sense on the phasers here.
Moments after Saavik energises the defence fields, someone is clearly shown charging the phasers. It’s fair to reason that the "few short bursts" of phaser power constitute that initial charge. Later, when the portside torpedo bay is hit, Enterprise responds with a torpedo from the starboard tube. Reasonable design would isolate the two bays for exactly this circumstance.