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Although Khan is intelligent he is not an experienced starship commander like Adm.James T. Kirk who served in Starfleet for years commanding a starship.
@@ericmadsen7470 Exactly. In some edits of this movie, Kirk tells McCoy that the Enterprise is intact only because he (Kirk) knew something about Starfleet ships (their prefix codes) that Khan didn't know. I always wanted McCoy to reply that Kirk had earned that knowledge through decades of dedicated service to Starfleet, whereas Khan had done nothing to earn that knowledge.
I'm just going to leave this other RUclips jem here: ruclips.net/video/2yLkr8nK0Qg/видео.htmlsi=7DyCevZU3iY_KsUb This is the other must-see Wrath of Khan combat video
Used to love life is feudal it is a dead game. Yes they resuscitated that horse briefly but its still the ten year old game with a 15 year old torqe engine
@6:23 ... the TOS era starship could, indeed, fire force beams from the deflector dish. The episode The Paradise Syndrome shows Big E firing a beam at an asteroid, that is threatening this weeks planet.
I would argue that the SFX used in that movie still looks pretty good. They went for absolute broke with the models, green screen, and the hand-drawn effects!
To me it was the first realistic looking phaser fire .. TOS phaser fire looked like straws and TMP was more of a drive by. The pulsed lightning like fire from Reliant was perfect and is still admirable today :)
One of biggest comments by non-fans who see the fight in Wraith all say how well everything holds up 40 years later. From SFX, to the lighting, directing and acting, just doesn't feel dated in anyway.
@@Sephiroth144 LoL! What is Genesis? It's essentially, Life from Lifelessness... When that fire spreads over and then the little tiny mountains start to spike up from the water...yeah, that's pretty 1980s 🤣
I think due to time pressures to get the presentation done they had ChatGPT do it and it spit out a weird presentation but there wasn't time to redo it so they went with it.
Just like when one of the Swordfish torpedo bombers from the carrier HMS Ark Royal scored the lucky hit on the rudder of the German battleship Bismarck.
I saw the film in 1982, the audience was invested from minute one, the beginning of the rematch had the audience cheering and people were verbally expressing, " Spock can't die! " This film holds up to this day.
The original design was for the nacelles to be above the main hull. IMO it would actually have looked better in that configuration (though the original layout of the weapon pods wasn't as good).
I always felt it made sense for the Reliant to be heavily armed for such an important mission. Plus ita probably newer and more advanced than the Enteprise
@@Akm72 - the nacelles were always intended to be ventral because the designers wanted a ship that would appear very different on the screen from the Enterprise, yet still look like a Starfleet vessel. Apocryphally, it is said they were worried people would confuse the two ships, but I think that's nonsense. The idea that the nacelles were supposed to be dorsal came from Roddenberry approving the model while holding it upside-down, not realizing he was doing so.
Great breakdown! With Scotty saying the battery could only fire a few shots I always took it that Kirk emptied everything he had and it wasn't that he let Khan get away but that he had no power left. What remained in the battery was not enough to fire the phasers. With both side's weapons offline they had no real choice but to retire. I do think that Kirk of all people would have raised shields. He even notes in the tense moments leading up to the fight how strange the situation is. He saw so much crazy shit just in the original Star Trek it seems very out of character for him to not raise shields.
You have to consider that Kirk has been out of practice for quite some time being in the Admiralty for the second time. In the Motion Picture he was out of action for 2 1/2 years and it took Decker's insight and Spock's timely arrival for him to shake off the rust. If you consider other outside canon sources such as RPG games, Comics, or Kirk's Autobiography, he was either yanked out of command of the Enterprise immediately after the V'Ger crisis due to his celebrity status as Starfleet couldn't afford to lose such a high-profile officer. Or, after the second five-year mission, Kirk accepts another promotion as Admiral in order to run the Academy. OR Kirk was forced out of Starfleet once he returned from the 2nd five-year mission by a corrupt High-Ranking Admiral that he blackmailed into regaining command of the Enterprise. Years pass, that corrupt admiral is disgraced out of Starfleet which allows Kirk to return... but he's stuck as an Admiral yet again, now overseeing the Academy. In any of those scenarios, he's out of starship command shape 8 to 13 years. He's going to be very rusty.
this is not about being old. not about kirk being "out of practice". Kirk is confronted with a subordinate. Reliant was directly under his command, the Genesis project was under his authority. he is perplexed. and most importantly... the reason it is part of the plot... is Pride. arrogance. both kirk and Khan are prideful, arrogant beings. Khan is taking advantage of kirk's arrogance in assuming a star fleet ship under his authority would be friendly, despite it acting quite questionable. just as Khan is felled by his Arrogance, his pride, later in the film, it harms kirk in the start. once Kirk understands he is in a real situation, not just more paperwork and simulations, you see him begin to discard his these flaws, and to use them to his advantage against the far more prideful and arrogant khan. it's a bit part of the story's theme.
"This is damned peculiar" ~Famous last words of Admiral Kirk, moments before getting blown to pieces by Khan Noonien Singh, in some alternate universe.
@@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 And in yet another alternate universe: SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, ''On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...'' KIRK: Raise shields!
It was during this time that Kirk met Antonia and lived on a ranch together. The relationship ended when Kirk chooses to resume his Starfleet career as he recounts in Generations
This was a fantastic breakdown! I loved the new angles you showed and the tactical layouts. Really well done! In regards to Joachim's battle damage report to Khan, I always thought it was a reference to The Motion Picture. In TMP, the Enterprise was caught in a wormhole and were on a collision course with an asteroid. Kirk ordered phasers to destroy the asteroid, but Decker countermanded the phaser order and directed Chekov to arm photon torpedoes instead. After the incident, Kirk demands an explanation for his phaser order being countermanded. Decker explains that the new (refit) design channels phasers through the warp drive. When the engine went into antimatter imbalance the phasers were automatically put offline. So, in TWOK, Joachim stated that warp drive and photon control were taken out. Therefore, since the warp drive was taken out they had no phasers. And since they had no photon control, torpedoes were useless. Sulu knew what he was doing. He knew how to disable the Reliant with just a few shots. It's also perfect irony. Kirk nearly destroys the Enterprise in TMP because of this specific lack of knowledge. In TWOK Kirk saves the Enterprise with this knowledge.
Good point, and Khan probably hadn't really had time to deeply study the technical manuals of the Reliant or refit either, so that was a nasty surprise to him. Definitely a design flaw on the part of Starfleet's ship design engineers...I doubt it was Scotty's idea.
I was fortunate enough to see this one in the theater in 1982...I was 7 years old. Even though I was very much a Star Wars kid, this movie stuck,with me and made me a fan of Star Trek as well. The space battles in this film are among the greatest in the history of cinema. Nearly perfect film making, right down to the score and sound design.
That first sucker punch of a broadside hit is still such a brutal sneak attack. Pretty sure this could rival the Death Star 2 Ambush for best Sci-fi "It's a Trap" moments
Great video. Loved it. However there is an answer as to why Kirk didn’t pursue and continue hitting Reliant after he dropped her shields. Just before Reliant contacts Enterprise and orders her surrender, Kirk talks to Scotty over the intercom as the bridge erupts in flames. “Can you give me phaser power?” To which Scotty responds with, “Just a few shots sir.” Spock then chimes in, “Not enough against their shields.” This indicates that with the mains offline and auxiliary just being knocked out by the torpedo hit, there wasn’t enough power for the phasers to fire more than a few relatively low power shots before being drained of what little charge they had.
khan also likely would get the shields back up (and the codes changed) after the initial attack. he still had power for shields, they were just down for that critical strike by the enterprise.
@@ericgray4325 this man is 100% correct. There are 3 of those nodes surrounding the dish on the enterprise. Those nodes are deflectors The dish is just an augment.
After Wraith all Star Fleet ships raise their primary shields once Yellow Alert is activated. The other problem the Enterprise had, since it was on a training cruise. It didn't have the large cadre of NCO's (like Chief O'Brian), rather a small group of instructors, that would command individual groups of sailors or crew members like on a normal mission. Which prevents panic and inaction/incorrect action of teams, like during an attack. Which is why it broke poor Scotty's heart, his nephew didn't run. He stayed at his post (when everybody else ran) and tried to manage the situation as best he cold. Probably preventing more damage, deaths and or one of factors that help the Enterprise survive at all. For a cadet to act so bravely and intelligently in crisis, the service lost almost as much as Scotty did with Preston's death. I also believe the way the Energizer works in Star Trek is basically a Particle Accelerator in reverse. Converting radiation (light, alpha, beta, gamma, heat) and other exotic particles generated by the Warp plasma into massive amounts of electrical power. Even the fusion reactor powering the Impulse engines still function basically same way. But with a different version of an Energizer designed for fusion reactor plasma rather than Warp plasma.
I would have liked to believe this incident caused starfleet to make several changes. First they no longer sent training crew made up of a small group of instructors overseeing a much larger group of trainees with no NCOs out on training missions. Sadly red squad and the uss valiant shot that one to hell. I also like to think that as a result of this incident, starfleet changed their procedures for alert status. When going from Condition green to an alert they had to raise shields. If you notice in TNG and the others they would order yellow alert and to raise shields. In TOS yellow alert was just an elevated alert status, no raised shields except when the story demanded it.
You're more than likely correct as before this Fleet Captain Pike was made total invalid on a training mission with an old J type ship full of cadets, and on this mission you had the death if Captain Spoke and nearly the death of Admiral Kirk. So chances are they changed that, the reason Red Squad would have been given its own ship with a senior staff is probably because they were the top of their class best of the best and considered just as good as fully commissioned officers. I also think the regulations changed more than likely as in the original series main timeline in the episode Errand of Mercy the Enterprise survives a surprise attack by a Klingon ship only because the deflectors had an automatic circuit that caused them to snap on when any ship not viewed as a friend came towards them. So after this incident chances are Star Fleet changed it to any ship is given a situation to raise shields regardless.
Didn’t have NCO’s? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the original Enterprise’s complement of 430 included 47 commissioned officers and 380 NCO’s, didn’t it?
Great video. I love the inclusion of more detailed concepts for the engineering within the starships which allow them to function which are only ever mentinoed in dialogue and elft to the imagination. It makes the starships feel like irl vessels, with all sorts of machinary and technology required to make them go, where damage to a single component can lead to issues down the line. It adds to the jeopardy in my mind and Star Trek could do with including it more in the more recent series and movies.
You forget that the Enterprise's port torpedo launcher was badly damaged and disabled by one of Khan's phaser attacks in the nebula. Presumably, that damage was never fully repaired by the time of the third movie, as Kirk had said MOST of their battle damage...but not all. It can be safe to say that torpedo launcher remained nonfunctional by the time Kirk's Enterprise faced the Klingon Bird of Prey, hence why they only fired torpedos from the starboard torpedo launcher.
Fantastic video. At the end though, it was said that Kirk decided to let Khan go instead of "enduring more bloodshed". However as the video mentioned earlier, and I believe Spock says to Kirk while they're assessing the damage - the Enterprise only had battery power available for a few phaser shots at this point. So perhaps less of a moral choice by Kirk and more a matter of available resources.
15:33 in the screenplay, and the film as presented, the Enterprise ends this engagement on battery power only. AUX power is restored after the fact. What Enterprise uses against the Reliant is the phaser power that was already diverted their when she went to yellow alert. 17:18 It was definitely referring to the photon launcher. They damaged the warp drive, meaning the phaser banks were cut off.(Established in TMP. If the phasers aren't charged before hand, they won't be able to fire until whatever primary power issues are resolved.) They damaged the photon torpedo launch controls, meaning the torps were out. This nullifies Reliant's ability to fire. 17:30 What else was he supposed to do? The Enterprise had no power, her torpedo bays were not primed for battle, her phaser banks were likely depleted of power after the few shots they managed to get off on the Reliant. 17:34 Yeah, no. Kirk doesn't "let the Reliant go". Everything in the scene indicates that the Enterprise is basically dead in space after her single phaser barrage against Reliant. Scotty reports, right before the minute countdown starts that they are on "just the battery." That's not enough to run the impulse engines, or the weapons systems. The ship is dead in space. That's why the Enterprise doesn't even try to move out of Reliant's way as it careens past them. She can't. Reliant's strikes were exact. The heavy phaser barrage hulls Main Engineering, knocking out the main energizer, choking the ship of its main power supply. While the crew are recoiling from this crippling shot and attempting to get AUX power flowing to the systems (which even Spock says wont be enough to escape), Khan fires the aft torpedo, hitting the Enterprise amidships in the aft quarter of the saucer section. This shot hits near where one of the two fusion reacotrs are supposedly located in the saucer section. This shot knocks out the AUX power, leaving the ship effectively dead in space. It's incredibly simple, focus, and smartly written.
Did you notice when Captain Terrell and Chekov first landed on Seti Alpha 5 and walked into the Botany Bay and the camera does a slow pan of the deserted interior. Look on the bookshelf and you can read some of the books Khan was stranded with. There is a copy of Moby Dick on the bookshelf.
My nephews saw this movie for the first time just a few hours ago. What a crazy coincidence. BTW They loved it. Hated the ending but that's understandable 😄
Of course, everyone has their preferences, but it was exactly that outcome that made "The Wrath of Khan" the best film in the entire Star Trek franchise. It has become a script standard to this day.
Lol reminds of the urban legend that follows: Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10-10-95. Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision. Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision. Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course. Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course. Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship. Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.[2]
thanks for the video of the Epic locking horns of the Enterprise and Reliant, it (the video) took just as much admiration and effort to give a recap from breakdown of ships to the contrast of those commanding them. for such a well made , directed, and acted movie , Trek gave me joy as a boy in the 4th grade when I acquired it on VHS and will stand as the saving grace of the franchise
I love the use of the particular almost melodic "mournful sensor wail" from Wrath of Khan here, something about the sound design in that movie seemed particularly unique.
I agree. The Wrath of Kahn is the best of ALL Star Trek movies! My next choice would be The Undiscovered Country. Scrap all of the Kelvin movies. When they said Kelvin timeline, I had hoped that it referred to the Kelvins from the TOS "By Any Other Name"
Been waiting on this break down for awhile! I was kind of surprised you didn't use more sound effects, which you normally do in your videos. The Enterprise's phasers didn't make any noise at all! I would like to note that in "The Ultimate Computer," Kirk avoided a potentially lethal misunderstanding by NOT raising shields. He also avoided total destruction by V'ger by not raising shields before V'ger fired. Perhaps he had the same thinking here.
In both of those situations he explained his reasoning. In the ultimate computer HIS ship had just attacked the other starships so HE was technically the aggressor. In TMP V'ger had already been attacked by the Klingons and attacked the epsilon station. Both had likely taking steps to try and defend itself by raising shields. In both those situations he DELIBERATELY ordered the shields be kept down. The reliant was another federation starship acting strangely. In fact going to a defensive stance but keeping weapons offline would have been a BETTER choice. No the scene was written with an intentional plot hole because a yellow alert by default should have raised shields and the attack could not have occurred the way it did without it. But consider this minor alteration: Kirk orders yellow alert after Savik mentions regulations. Shields go up. Reliant sends a broken (and fake) message saying they had suffered a radiation leak and need assistance. Kirk not checking with Spock first orders shields down and damage control/medical teams to the transporter room to assist. Spock not wanting to question Kirk's orders (like he just chided Savik over a moment ago) does an independent scan and reports there is no radiation coming from the Reliant. Rest of the scene with the attack plays out normally. This minor change would fit within the time frame and dialog of the scene easily and explain everything as to why Kirk says he got caught with his pants down.
Honestly to me this movie will go down in history as one of the brilliant excellent uses of models ever in movie history! It was during the time of Empire Strikes back! Another excellent use of models in movie. A thing I hope Hollywood goes back to at least some. All CGI is NOT the way to go forward!
The line about the damage to the photon controls and the warp drive is meant to explain why they can’t fire back. In Star Trek 1 it was explained that the phasers are powered directly by the warp drive for more power. So if the warp drive is down, phasers are too. But the movie also demonstrated that the photon torpedoes are independent of the warp drive. So “photon controls” must refer to the controls for the photon torpedoes to explain why they too cannot be used. Of course, Enterprise is somehow able to fire a limited phaser burst on aux power. But perhaps Kirk had requested she be able to do that, after the wormhole incident in ST1, or Scotty is just so good and experienced that he can reroute power like that while Khans crew cannot.
I have seen RUclips videos that point out that Reliant actually has more Mass than the Enterprise. this is mostly worked out by taking the models of both and looking at surface area or dunking them in water. I have always looked at it as the Reliant as a "New" light Cruser. Enterprise was an "Old" Heavy cruiser and Excelsior is the "New" heavy cruiser. thus and like navy's for the last 100+ years a new destroyer could outclass an older Cruiser
“Ceti Alpha 6 exploded, 6 months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and everything was laid waste. ‘Admiral’ Kirk never bothered to check on our progress.” -Khan ^^For anyone wondering how that happened. No need to explain it in a separate video really…..
I know it's not canon, but in a few of the Starfleet battles games, maybe Orion Pirats, from the early 2000s, there were like 20 Miranda variations. A few had the extra torpedo pod.
When the Enterprise was redesigned, phaser control was routed to draw power from the warp drive (ST TMP), so it's logical to assume that all Federation ships have the same setup. By Kirk destroying the impulse crystals on Reliant, he effectively knocked out primary warp power (which also took out the phasers), and collateral damaged the photon torpedo launcher, situated just above the impulse crystal. Hope this helps.
This is an incredible battle breakdown. I have been watching this movie over and over since I was a kid. I loved that they did a continuation from an original series episode. The battle was very tactical and well made. I now can see why both ships took as much damage as they did when hit by weapons. Keep up the fantastic work!
The Enterprise was being used as a training ship. Star Fleet had it slated to be decommission when they returned (likely for the latest refit. It's not uncommon in current navies to decommission a ship before an overhaul. The Enterprise's sister ship was undergoing this process already but it was recommissioned as the Enterprise NCC1701A. Also not uncommon in navies of our time.)
If you haven't already I'd suggest reading through the technical books published on both ships that explain their systems and layouts. Reliant has a deflector, she also has a pair of phaser banks fore the bridge on the dorsal side of the primary hull by the name paint and a matching pair ventral side if memory serves. Enterprise's phasers are routed through warp power relays to give them more punch, etc.. You are spot on about the Miranda class being the workhorse of the fleet and seeing a lot of variations. This particular ship had also had a somewhat recent refit if memory serves. Lot of guesswork here to things that are addressed in previous documentation. Overall the video is well done and I enjoyed.
This is my second favourite starship battle, following "Balance of Terror". The battles in "Wrath" and "Terror" are similar in that they are one-ship-versus-one-ship, battles of wits, long, and we experience the death of people whom we have come to know. I found these battles much more interesting and realistic than the thousand-ships-versus-thousand-ships explosion festivals in some other shows. Those are just fireworks and kaleidoscopes. Real combat involves human beings ... tragically.
I think Kirk didn't push the fight because he couldn't - Scotty had already told him the battery could only give "a few shots" of the phasers, in the midst of the last damage report before Khan hailed the Enterprise. (Spock replied with "not enough against their shields".) There was only one chance, and Kirk had to make it count before using what he could to get past this. It wasn't until auxiliary power was restored later he could really plan on *trying* to fight the Reliant - and even then he had to pick his battlefield carefully. A place the advantages and disadvantages could make the fight more even, without shields and without the ability to weapons-lock. But anyone who saw the movie knows how that went down, and the Enterprise almost lost that engagement anyway. The damage in the initial surprise attack had much more of an impact, to the point Starfleet seriously was intending to retire it rather than fix it.
My favorite movie of all time. I'm trying to get the feel of these encounters between Kirk and Khan just right. So it's taking me longer than I would like to get my game based on these types of encounters out, but I want it to be about as perfect as I can get it. Looking forward to the day when I can see an unlimited number of these battles play out between players. Your videos are a big help. You should watch a movie called "The Enemy Below", it's where the original series adopted their idea for starship combat. The episode "Balance of Terror" almost mimics the movie.
I am a long time trekkie: st:tm and st:wok in movie theaters. This is, by far, the best breakdown I've seen or head of what's going on in this movie. Congratulations! And thank you for sharing!
The Enterprise was refit closer to 2270, not 2279. The Motion Picture takes place only two years after the end of Kirks first 5 year mission ended which was in the late 2260's, despite the film being released in 1979 and the cast aged 10 years, the characters would have only aged 2 or 3 years.
Okay let's break this down shall we...... First the USS reliant is a frigate, yes it is heavily armed as the class patrolled the neutral zone. It is more of a combat ship than a explorer hence is why if you look at her bridge you see it is smaller than that of the Enterprise as it has limited research stations. ( similar to the defiant in DS9). The ship does have navigation deflection arrays. If you look at the bottom of the Reliants hull the two objects on the aft under the shuttle bays you will see two large square objects. With three openings facing forward towards the bow. These are the navigational deflectors. They sit lower to the hull to protect them from enemy fire in bow to bow attacks. As after all again the class is more a military ship than a research vessel.... The heavy phaser units on the weapons pod roll bar with thief firing arcs and photon torpedo Bay pod are for defense of the ship untill more reinforcement could arrive. As for the attack on the Enterprise. Checkov provided Khan where the engineering section on the Enterprise was which Khan knew was the best place to attack as it controlled everything on Enterprise. And he only got the information thanks to the eel he placed inside Checkov...... Kirk not wanting to be bested by a lieutenant on proper procedure when she was still wet behind the ears ( excuse the pun) and his experience when he was captain.let it get the Best of him. And he was at fault for the Enterprise being attacked for not going to yellow alert and raising shields as was protocol....it was his ego that got in the way...which was why he states I did Nothing! I must be getting senile....as he knew he would not had done that except he wanted to upstage Savvik for reminding him of his duty under Regulations ......
As I remember, going to yellow alert in TNG-era, does raise shields, but given TNB was post-kirk era, this measure may have to do with Kirk's flaw in Reliant's first encounter. But on Enterprise series, when going to yellow alert does polarize the hull, something that may be feasible to still exist in Kirk era.
Starfleet order 12 does state to raise shields for vessles that dont respond to hails but is probably meant for unknown ships probably not of federation origon. Kirks order for yellow alert is probably more in line with how the order is meant to be interpreted but savik (a vulcan) would take it as the literal interpretation. My beef with kirk os that when they realized reliant lied about their emmissions he should have gone to red alert.
I've been watching ST since the '70s and I have the original tech manual and blueprints and am versed in the newer tech things through STNG. I have to say you have a great job with this video. I agree with the assumptions you have made and the battle breakdown in very good.
From early tech manuals that I read way back in the 90s from a fellow trek nerd, the Reliant’s phaser hard points on the boom were directly linked to the warp core and were supposed to be a lot more powerful than the standard phasers mounted on the saucer. This has probably been retconned several times over at this point, but I always felt the Reliant had a better setup for combat. The lack of aft torpedos on the Enterprise was also retconned (or refitted) on later models with a single torpedo launcher mounted aft of the primary forward facing launchers. Oh one side note, in the Enterprise episode “In a mirror darkly” had the old Constitution class with an aft torpedo launcher which was a continuity error, though it was cool when Archer asked if the ship had it and evil Trip responded with “you better believe it”. Should’ve gone with phasers instead.
I really enjoyed this movie it's something I can watch several times over I miss the older movies probably nostalgic since I grew up watching the original movies but they still hold up well after all this time and yes the story was written well as most older movies are
Great video and analysis. I agree with a previous comment Kirk did not decide to let Kahn go he simply did not have any power left in the batteries after he used his,”just a few shots” on Khan. I just subscribed.
I don’t think it’s apathy. Kirk feels he’s too old to be a Captain. Not physical enough anymore to throw punches. Not mentally sharp enough to make decisions. Spock and McCoy know he’s feeling this way and are trying to help him refind his confidence. It’s a very reasonable and typical way for a man in his fifties to feel.
"You will never find consistency." Ain't that the truth. I remember, very early one, one game that described the Reliant as being a heavy cruiser that was supposedly more powerful - at least in armament - than the Enterprise. This was probably based on early movie details sent to licensees that were later changed to make the Reliant the weaker ship, but having the element of surprise.
All the Starships that have Constitution Class style saucer hull, have a secondary Navigational Deflector array directly under the saucer dish... you can see all four of the Navigational Deflector array housings under the dish
I'm late to the party here, but I have a Star Trek RPG guide for starships, and the entry for the Enterprise indicates that the refit overhauled the phasers to siphon power directly from the warp core itself. It wouldn't be a stretch to guess that the Miranda Class does this by default so when Joaquin says the warp drive is damaged, he is indicating that there isn't enough power from the warp drive to power phasers. And seeing where the ship was hit, it's possible they may be using the "automation center" like in Star Trek 3 so the damage they took basically knocked their weapons offline completely.
15:32 Nope. IN the script and the film as presented, the Enterprise ends this engagement on battery power only. AUX power is restored after the fact. What Enterprise uses against the Reliant is the phaser power that was already diverted their when she went to yellow alert. 17:19 It was definitely referring to the photon launcher. They damaged the warp drive, meaning the phaser banks were cut off. They damaged the photon controls, meaning the torpedos were out. This nullifies Reliants ability to fire. 17:31 What else was he supposed to do? The Enterprise had no power, her torpedo bays were not primed for battle, her phaser banks were likely depleted of power after the few shots tehy managed to get off on the Reliant.
I've always said that the Miranda-class starship is like the old HMS Hood, in that she packed a heavy punch but had a glass jaw when it came to shield generation. Khan hit main engineering where not only the physical damage would hurt the ship, but also where the people who were best at fixing the ship were located. The Constitution-class can generate incredible amounts of power, and if the Enterprise were firing on the Reliant with better than battery power she would have blown her out of space.
Fantastic Breakdown, i've hope you can also breakdown the Enterprise battle with the Bird of Prey in ST 3 and the Enterprise, Excelsion vs Chang's Bird of Prey in ST 6.
The battle between the Enterprise and the Reliant comes down to an experienced commander and crew of a star ship. This is why Kirk and crew won against Khan and an inexperienced crew on board the Reliant.
Being a heavy cruise/explorer I think the Constitution is able to do most tasks very well without modification. The Miranda class seems to be a class designed to be reconfigured for specific tasks (transport, science, tactical). The Constitution, being designed for multi tasking, probably has higher power generation capabilities that an experienced engineer could harness and redirect cleverly. The Miranda, probably has less power to play with. In the first barrage Khan goes straight for the power systems of the Enterprise (the warp drive) to take away that massive advantage. The Constitution is designed to operate for long periods in remote areas, so it probably has the higher reserve power capacity too (larger batteries higher secondary power generation). That’s the second system Khan targets (impulse drive). Scotty seems very concerned with the power systems after both attacks, almost shocked even. Even auxiliary (backup) power is affected. It’s a really clever battle that is less about raw firepower and more about tactics. Only a few shots are fired by each combatant. Khan shows restraint, wanting to put Kirk in a cat and mouse game. Kirk is forced to ration what little power the ship has access to, every shot must count. Forcing both combatants to show restraint makes the entire thing so much more satisfying to watch.
In all these older movies, you get the feel that starships are these large and extremely heavy vessels that take a lot of space to maneuver. They are reminiscent of the way battleships and other military ships maneuver on the ocean.
I'm now 40 years old and watched the original series on TV back then. I was never really interested in it, but I thought it was incredibly cool. Unfortunately, I only really became a fan when I got older. I've just seen the movie for the first time and it's a masterpiece in my eyes. It's hard to believe that the movie is from the early 80s like i am... I think I'm becoming a Trekkie with my 40 years. Just starting to watch Next Generation. Hope I like it as much as the original
I assumed that yellow alert also, and principally, polarizes the hull plating. This would seemingly require less power than shields and therefore be a suitably precautionary measure against a lower risk attack. This was excellent btw; you have a new subscriber.
I used to really dislike the way the pulse phasers looked in this movie, but it has really grown on me over the years and was quite ahead of its time. And of course it is the only time we see ships firing phasers in all of TMP era, so we don't have a really clear idea how long they were in use before most Starfleet ships reverted back to beam phasers. In fact, we don't really know if this was a different type of phaser at all, or just a mode of operation available that might be optimal in certain circumstances. I think the scenes of hand phasers firing in this movie lend evidence to different hardware though.
You forget that in TMP that Decker specifically belays Kirk's phaser order in the warmhole and switched to photon torpedoes because the refit version channels it's power through the warp drive engines for more power. And I think the blue dome on the Reliant is essentially the deflector dish for that configuration. But excellent analysis of the whole exchange! Brilliant!🤘🏻 And loved how you used some of the original sound effects that make it really definitive! 👏🏻😁
It would have been nice to have seen the battle assessment during their fight in the Mutara nebula, like when the Reliant fired into the Enterprise's port torpedo launcher (and the docking port) and when the Entprise returned fire near the bridge, which killed Jaquime. Then in the final battle when the Enterprise rose up behind the Reliant and shot her torpedo launcher with a topedo and shot her port nessele with a few phaser shots and blew it off with a topedo, crippling the Reliant and critically injuring Khan while the rest of his people were killed.
I love what you’ve done here - just joined the channel. Not to be the armchair critic but, two things: 1. It’s said, individually, the Enterprise’ phaser type (FH-11) are more powerful than Reliant type (FH-10); 2. the torpedo hit Enterprise takes is on the other side of the secondary hull engineering, not the saucer section. You can see this in the next movie which shows the battle damage. There are also hints to this during the battle, like when Spock gives Kirk a damage report, and when we see the torpedo direction coming down before impact. I don’t know why they didn’t include battle damage in Wrath of Kahn. Was a major blunder.
I think it was a good idea for Kirk to abandon fight as soon as he damaged the Reliant enough. Just how extensive the damage to the Enterprise was, was still mostly unknown, the crew of cadets was still pretty shaken up and he had no idea what other aces Khan might have up his sleeve. It was a good idea to retreat, assess the damage and prepare for the next engagement instead of risking it all in an immediate all out fight.
Primary deflector is to prevent space dust/rocks, etc. from hitting the ship during impulse power. At full impulse a rock the size of a softball could really mess up a ship without shields. Warp core field is generated by the nacelles.
Ok. A few things, the Miranda roll bar phasers are no more powerful, but its how the cover rear with phasers and gives a more aggressive look. If anything, those are banks tied to the warp system like all of 1701. The fix for that was phaser batteries to augment the loss of warp power and provide backup phaser power on emergency power, but reduced power. Enterprise had no maneuvering, no aux or mains, no impulse power. It was reported while Kirk was touring sickbay. In the OR. Sulu not only hit the impulse crystal, his shots hit what at first glance is just the hull. That area is weapons control. Enterprise seemingly with full weapons but no shields and drifting vs "shield malfunction", being on thrusters, and weapons damage. Thats why he withdrew
So my immediate thought based on your excellent analysis is that yes Kirk is in a midlife crisis in his career, as one of the youngest Starfleet captains ever and then promoted to admiral He's kind of reached the limit of his ambition. What you've neglected to cover and what I've read is that just one sip of romulan ale is enough to get you drunk. So Dr McCoy and admiral Kirk are literally stepping onto the bridge pretty wasted. This is why romulan ale is illegal at least one reason. But it's clear they're pretty drunk...
The only detail I would add is that the dome on the bottom of the saucer section is the main sensor dome and has been since TOS. After the torpedo strike and the starboard side of the bridge explodes, Spock's pull-out scanner console is dark. When the Enterprise makes it to Regula Station, Spock points out they are basically blind because that aft torpedo strike took out the sensors. So the phaser strike was the proverbial baton to the knee that hobbles the Enterprise, and the torpedo to the sensor dome is the stick in the eye to blind them. From a tactical standpoint, extremely efficient. If Kahn's ego weren't so massively inflated along with his other abilities, he might've just kept shooting until the Enterprise exploded and gone on his way. But then it wouldn't be much of a revenge film lol
The torpedo didn't hit the sensor dome. It had in the rear quarter of the saucer section. Exactly where one of the two aux fusion reacotrs is located in the saucer. Reliant's phaser strike took out the main power energizer. The torpedo took out auxiliary power. The Enteprrise had charged its phaser banks before the attack, which is how Sulu is still able to fire the phasers at that point.
@StevenJShow incorrect. And how you know is by what exploded on the bridge, and what was not working when they got to Regula. When the torpedo hits, the science station blows up. Needlessly dramatic, perhaps. But it's a classic military tactic: blind and paralyze your enemy. Later, when the arrive at Regula I, Spock's station is dark and he says "scanners and sensors are still inoperative" and he and Kirk exchange commentary about Regula being "a great rock in space" and how Reliant could be hiding behind that rock and they wouldn't know. As for the fusion reactors, they're still at the top of the Impulse Drive housing on B-Deck just like in TOS. Y'see, unlike the rubbish that is Mister Scott's Guide to the Enterprise (a non-canon piece of fanwank. Delightful fanwank, but still fanwank), my understanding of the layout of the ship is extrapolated from Canon sources, ergo what i see and hear on-screen. I've seen this movie a couple hundred times, and I've read the script liner notes and heard the director commentaries. And that's what happened. The End.
Directors of star wars and trek and others take note, that battle was tense, exciting and dramatic, and yet slow, you don't need everything to be quick cuts, explosions and everything fast and in your face like the reboot star treks
I don't think warp cores are ejectable at this time. Honestly, I kinda like the idea that it was fairly new with the Nebula/Galaxy era (which would explain why they had so many issues with warp cores and when trying to eject warp cores in TNG - new ejecting design and not all the safeties are quite up to dealing with what ships actually can get into in the field). It would also explain why he'd aim further back and essentially cause the damage to force a "scram" of the warp core since the created energy would have nowhere to go except the wrecked area.
Nice! Wrath of Khan has been on a lot of channels lately hasn't it? The movie might not've made as much money as some of the onther ones, but for entertainment it's certainly at the top of the list. I still get a tear when Shatner's voice catches on reading that line. Jack Horners music is on point and the FX still holds up. Many people still argue for nerd points about the warp drives in Star Trek, but when has there ever been consistency in the show? I guess the problem started with TNG when the Producers decided that they couldn't just 'show' professionals at work, they had to 'tell you' about it via infamous 'technobabble'? But once you start doing that you start writing yourself into a corner. Add into that, different writers every week, guest directors, guest-stars, stand-in Producers and then the creator of the show dies; I can't imagine how messy it got. A common point of contention are the 2 columns leading to the core in the middle. It's a pipe with a magnetic insulator to stop the contents touching [boom], or causing friction, yet it's often described as the critical factor of the 'power level' of the core, even if the reaction chamber where the magic happens is actually quite modest. But usually nothing outside of warp factor speeds is ever really stated in the show, any power output is given in technobabble, therefore is unreliable. Example: In DS9, Odo and his changeling friend in a dress, roll around on top of the Defiant reactor chamber like it's a 4 poster bed, yet, because the ship is at best 4 decks tall the Defiant is described, by the fandom, as having a lower power reactor than TNG or Voyager because it isn't as tall.
I don't ever want anyone to fabricate an in-universe explanation for a GNDN pipe. For me, such a pipe will always be something that "Goes Nowhere, Does Nothing".🙂
FYI, the soundtrack conpoaser's name was James Horner, not Jack.Jack Horner is the name a of a fairly well known paleontologist, probably best known for consulting on the orignal Jurassic Park movies.
Never understood why the Constitution class had no rear torpedoes, but the fact is they could be installed. In the book "Ships of the Star Fleet 2290-2291: Cruisers & Frigates" The USS America (Albeit she's designated as an "Enterprise II class. Confusing i know) was shown having rear firing torpedoes and it was noted that even "though not presently planned, this capability may be incorporated in some new-build ships at a later date." Personally i'm like "why not give them that from the moment they refitted the Enterprise , especially since that feature was already coming for other ships classes as well ?
This first attack was the worst! When Khan found Kirk, he had the upper hand. He knew just where to hit the enterprise on the engine room to take away power! The second time he attacked in the nebula was a blind shot phaser attack or was he trying to take out the torpedo room weapon systems?
Interesting tactical comparisons. But I'd suggest that even though it's more heavily armed, the reliant doesnt have the same weapon arc coverage underneath so tactically this would give the connie refit more options being able to fire in all directions.
Something to consider about the Enterprise and her phasers is, they're probably as powerful or maybe even slightly more powerful that the Pulse Cannons on the Reliant. Taking evidence from WoK directly wouldn't suggest this (unless you'd seen the Motion Picture), but in the Motion Picture, Commander Decker tells Kirk, after the worm hole that the Phasers are boosted by routing them directly through the Warp Core and were offline when the warp core went out of whack (hence why they couldn't be used to destroy the asteroid). After the Enterprise is crippled Kirk asks if the Phasers could get through Reliant's shields. Spock says "Not on Auxiliary power." (might have been not on batteries, I don't remember off hand). So despite the layout, Enterprise might have an edge in forward firepower over Reliant.
I do love the reference to submarine warfare being similar to this. It IS just two tubes of metal trying to hunt each other with futuristic weapons. Plus it holds even more true in the nebula battle. Looking forward to seeing it.
Kirk didn't let Khan go the Enterprise only had just enough power for those two shots. The Enterprise was dead in the water or space. It took the entire time of travel to Regula One and Kirk's away investigation/diversion just to get partial power back.
Going after the warp drive disables the phasers. That was touched upon in the previous movie when they fell into the wormhole. Captain Decker had to belay a phaser order because they were at warp, and firing phasers at the asteroid wouldn't work since the phasers drew their power from the engaged warp drive.
This was amazing. I've watched this movie my entire life, but I've never seen such a good breakdown. Like you pointed out, tech details are all over the place. I think this was a really thoughtful breakdown of the information we have. Can't wait to see more.
This is just far and away the best thought out and plausible walk through of anything like this. I really do think depth adds weight to stories (or at least lots of stories benefit from it and Trek is one of them).
Awesome video. Need more of these…I’d love to see the battle from Balance of Terror Edit: oh damn, just checked the channel and there already is one! Hell yea!
It's always impressed me how much the writers thought about how the ships work, how to use that to tell the story, and how to communicate that to an audience who might not be familiar with Trek. The hits shown are mostly followed by interior shots in the correct location, with a focus on how the ships use energy. The Enterprise doesn't have it's guns shot off or armor stripped away - it loses the energy needed to power weapons and shields. That is not at all how starships in other franchises work, nor how anything viewers might be familiar with in the real world works, but the movie does an excellent job or showing it in detail.
It also reflects Khans intention to cripple but not destroy the Enterprise and references the fact that Khan studied the design of the Enterprise (in the TOS episode, and possibly again onboard the Reliant). Great storytelling.
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Although Khan is intelligent he is not an experienced starship commander like Adm.James T. Kirk who served in Starfleet for years commanding a starship.
@@ericmadsen7470 Exactly. In some edits of this movie, Kirk tells McCoy that the Enterprise is intact only because he (Kirk) knew something about Starfleet ships (their prefix codes) that Khan didn't know. I always wanted McCoy to reply that Kirk had earned that knowledge through decades of dedicated service to Starfleet, whereas Khan had done nothing to earn that knowledge.
I'm just going to leave this other RUclips jem here: ruclips.net/video/2yLkr8nK0Qg/видео.htmlsi=7DyCevZU3iY_KsUb This is the other must-see Wrath of Khan combat video
Used to love life is feudal it is a dead game. Yes they resuscitated that horse briefly but its still the ten year old game with a 15 year old torqe engine
@6:23 ... the TOS era starship could, indeed, fire force beams from the deflector dish. The episode The Paradise Syndrome shows Big E firing a beam at an asteroid, that is threatening this weeks planet.
I would argue that the SFX used in that movie still looks pretty good. They went for absolute broke with the models, green screen, and the hand-drawn effects!
To me it was the first realistic looking phaser fire .. TOS phaser fire looked like straws and TMP was more of a drive by. The pulsed lightning like fire from Reliant was perfect and is still admirable today :)
One of biggest comments by non-fans who see the fight in Wraith all say how well everything holds up 40 years later. From SFX, to the lighting, directing and acting, just doesn't feel dated in anyway.
@@TK199999 With the minor exception of the CGI powerpoint presentation
@@Sephiroth144 LoL! What is Genesis? It's essentially, Life from Lifelessness...
When that fire spreads over and then the little tiny mountains start to spike up from the water...yeah, that's pretty 1980s 🤣
I think due to time pressures to get the presentation done they had ChatGPT do it and it spit out a weird presentation but there wasn't time to redo it so they went with it.
I love how Sulu's first shot goes straight for the jugular, trying to destroy Reliant's warp core.
Underrated tactician and a brilliant future captain!
Wrath of Sulu strikes once again
Just like when one of the Swordfish torpedo bombers from the carrier HMS Ark Royal scored the lucky hit on the rudder of the German battleship Bismarck.
I think Sulu was also trying to wipe out Reliant’s bridge with that phaser volley.
He was close!
I saw the film in 1982, the audience was invested from minute one, the beginning of the rematch had the audience cheering and people were verbally expressing, " Spock can't die! " This film holds up to this day.
I think the RELIANT's design was as iconic and interesting as the ENTERPRISE. I really like how she looks, more like a destroyer, fast and well armed.
Those pulse phaser cannons don't mess around.
@@marc80sand aft torpedoes
The original design was for the nacelles to be above the main hull. IMO it would actually have looked better in that configuration (though the original layout of the weapon pods wasn't as good).
I always felt it made sense for the Reliant to be heavily armed for such an important mission. Plus ita probably newer and more advanced than the Enteprise
@@Akm72 - the nacelles were always intended to be ventral because the designers wanted a ship that would appear very different on the screen from the Enterprise, yet still look like a Starfleet vessel. Apocryphally, it is said they were worried people would confuse the two ships, but I think that's nonsense. The idea that the nacelles were supposed to be dorsal came from Roddenberry approving the model while holding it upside-down, not realizing he was doing so.
Great breakdown! With Scotty saying the battery could only fire a few shots I always took it that Kirk emptied everything he had and it wasn't that he let Khan get away but that he had no power left. What remained in the battery was not enough to fire the phasers. With both side's weapons offline they had no real choice but to retire. I do think that Kirk of all people would have raised shields. He even notes in the tense moments leading up to the fight how strange the situation is. He saw so much crazy shit just in the original Star Trek it seems very out of character for him to not raise shields.
You have to consider that Kirk has been out of practice for quite some time being in the Admiralty for the second time. In the Motion Picture he was out of action for 2 1/2 years and it took Decker's insight and Spock's timely arrival for him to shake off the rust.
If you consider other outside canon sources such as RPG games, Comics, or Kirk's Autobiography, he was either yanked out of command of the Enterprise immediately after the V'Ger crisis due to his celebrity status as Starfleet couldn't afford to lose such a high-profile officer. Or, after the second five-year mission, Kirk accepts another promotion as Admiral in order to run the Academy. OR Kirk was forced out of Starfleet once he returned from the 2nd five-year mission by a corrupt High-Ranking Admiral that he blackmailed into regaining command of the Enterprise. Years pass, that corrupt admiral is disgraced out of Starfleet which allows Kirk to return... but he's stuck as an Admiral yet again, now overseeing the Academy.
In any of those scenarios, he's out of starship command shape 8 to 13 years. He's going to be very rusty.
this is not about being old. not about kirk being "out of practice". Kirk is confronted with a subordinate. Reliant was directly under his command, the Genesis project was under his authority. he is perplexed. and most importantly... the reason it is part of the plot...
is Pride. arrogance. both kirk and Khan are prideful, arrogant beings. Khan is taking advantage of kirk's arrogance in assuming a star fleet ship under his authority would be friendly, despite it acting quite questionable.
just as Khan is felled by his Arrogance, his pride, later in the film, it harms kirk in the start. once Kirk understands he is in a real situation, not just more paperwork and simulations, you see him begin to discard his these flaws, and to use them to his advantage against the far more prideful and arrogant khan. it's a bit part of the story's theme.
"This is damned peculiar"
~Famous last words of Admiral Kirk, moments before getting blown to pieces by Khan Noonien Singh, in some alternate universe.
@@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785
And in yet another alternate universe:
SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, ''On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...''
KIRK: Raise shields!
It was during this time that Kirk met Antonia and lived on a ranch together. The relationship ended when Kirk chooses to resume his Starfleet career as he recounts in
Generations
This was a fantastic breakdown! I loved the new angles you showed and the tactical layouts. Really well done!
In regards to Joachim's battle damage report to Khan, I always thought it was a reference to The Motion Picture. In TMP, the Enterprise was caught in a wormhole and were on a collision course with an asteroid. Kirk ordered phasers to destroy the asteroid, but Decker countermanded the phaser order and directed Chekov to arm photon torpedoes instead. After the incident, Kirk demands an explanation for his phaser order being countermanded. Decker explains that the new (refit) design channels phasers through the warp drive. When the engine went into antimatter imbalance the phasers were automatically put offline.
So, in TWOK, Joachim stated that warp drive and photon control were taken out. Therefore, since the warp drive was taken out they had no phasers. And since they had no photon control, torpedoes were useless.
Sulu knew what he was doing. He knew how to disable the Reliant with just a few shots. It's also perfect irony. Kirk nearly destroys the Enterprise in TMP because of this specific lack of knowledge. In TWOK Kirk saves the Enterprise with this knowledge.
Good point, and Khan probably hadn't really had time to deeply study the technical manuals of the Reliant or refit either, so that was a nasty surprise to him. Definitely a design flaw on the part of Starfleet's ship design engineers...I doubt it was Scotty's idea.
Agreed completely. That was my exact interpretation as well.
Sauce for the goose, Mr. Saavik 😉
I was fortunate enough to see this one in the theater in 1982...I was 7 years old. Even though I was very much a Star Wars kid, this movie stuck,with me and made me a fan of Star Trek as well. The space battles in this film are among the greatest in the history of cinema. Nearly perfect film making, right down to the score and sound design.
Awesome video. Wasn't expecting a 2nd part... It was like watching Season 3 TNG and realizing "Mr. Worf, Fire" was the end. That was a long summer. 😁
No shit! That was the most heinous cliffhanger in history to that point.
That first sucker punch of a broadside hit is still such a brutal sneak attack. Pretty sure this could rival the Death Star 2 Ambush for best Sci-fi "It's a Trap" moments
Those pulse phaser cannons don't mess around
Great video. Loved it. However there is an answer as to why Kirk didn’t pursue and continue hitting Reliant after he dropped her shields.
Just before Reliant contacts Enterprise and orders her surrender, Kirk talks to Scotty over the intercom as the bridge erupts in flames.
“Can you give me phaser power?”
To which Scotty responds with, “Just a few shots sir.”
Spock then chimes in, “Not enough against their shields.”
This indicates that with the mains offline and auxiliary just being knocked out by the torpedo hit, there wasn’t enough power for the phasers to fire more than a few relatively low power shots before being drained of what little charge they had.
khan also likely would get the shields back up (and the codes changed) after the initial attack. he still had power for shields, they were just down for that critical strike by the enterprise.
And he got a few shots- how many more do you think were in the tank?
@@Sephiroth144They probably used what few shots they had to damage the Reliant.
@@GlorfindelofGondolin That's what I meant; even if they chased the Reliant down, they wouldn't have had anything to throw at her.
@@Sephiroth144Ah, ok.
I never tire of seeing that movie, or the engagement. Some things are just timeless.
2:35 How many of us screamed "This is Ceti Alpha 5!"
Reliant had a deflector. It's a square cutout located on the underside of the saucer just above the ventral sensor dome.
escape pods. reliant deflector are the 2 nodes on upper saucer
@@ericgray4325 this man is 100% correct. There are 3 of those nodes surrounding the dish on the enterprise. Those nodes are deflectors The dish is just an augment.
After Wraith all Star Fleet ships raise their primary shields once Yellow Alert is activated. The other problem the Enterprise had, since it was on a training cruise. It didn't have the large cadre of NCO's (like Chief O'Brian), rather a small group of instructors, that would command individual groups of sailors or crew members like on a normal mission. Which prevents panic and inaction/incorrect action of teams, like during an attack. Which is why it broke poor Scotty's heart, his nephew didn't run. He stayed at his post (when everybody else ran) and tried to manage the situation as best he cold. Probably preventing more damage, deaths and or one of factors that help the Enterprise survive at all. For a cadet to act so bravely and intelligently in crisis, the service lost almost as much as Scotty did with Preston's death. I also believe the way the Energizer works in Star Trek is basically a Particle Accelerator in reverse. Converting radiation (light, alpha, beta, gamma, heat) and other exotic particles generated by the Warp plasma into massive amounts of electrical power. Even the fusion reactor powering the Impulse engines still function basically same way. But with a different version of an Energizer designed for fusion reactor plasma rather than Warp plasma.
I would have liked to believe this incident caused starfleet to make several changes. First they no longer sent training crew made up of a small group of instructors overseeing a much larger group of trainees with no NCOs out on training missions. Sadly red squad and the uss valiant shot that one to hell.
I also like to think that as a result of this incident, starfleet changed their procedures for alert status. When going from Condition green to an alert they had to raise shields. If you notice in TNG and the others they would order yellow alert and to raise shields. In TOS yellow alert was just an elevated alert status, no raised shields except when the story demanded it.
You're more than likely correct as before this Fleet Captain Pike was made total invalid on a training mission with an old J type ship full of cadets, and on this mission you had the death if Captain Spoke and nearly the death of Admiral Kirk. So chances are they changed that, the reason Red Squad would have been given its own ship with a senior staff is probably because they were the top of their class best of the best and considered just as good as fully commissioned officers.
I also think the regulations changed more than likely as in the original series main timeline in the episode Errand of Mercy the Enterprise survives a surprise attack by a Klingon ship only because the deflectors had an automatic circuit that caused them to snap on when any ship not viewed as a friend came towards them. So after this incident chances are Star Fleet changed it to any ship is given a situation to raise shields regardless.
Didn’t have NCO’s? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the original Enterprise’s complement of 430 included 47 commissioned officers and 380 NCO’s, didn’t it?
Great video. I love the inclusion of more detailed concepts for the engineering within the starships which allow them to function which are only ever mentinoed in dialogue and elft to the imagination. It makes the starships feel like irl vessels, with all sorts of machinary and technology required to make them go, where damage to a single component can lead to issues down the line. It adds to the jeopardy in my mind and Star Trek could do with including it more in the more recent series and movies.
You forget that the Enterprise's port torpedo launcher was badly damaged and disabled by one of Khan's phaser attacks in the nebula. Presumably, that damage was never fully repaired by the time of the third movie, as Kirk had said MOST of their battle damage...but not all. It can be safe to say that torpedo launcher remained nonfunctional by the time Kirk's Enterprise faced the Klingon Bird of Prey, hence why they only fired torpedos from the starboard torpedo launcher.
The Battle of Sector 001: the best score AND(!) the best Sci-Fi action, EVER!
Fantastic video. At the end though, it was said that Kirk decided to let Khan go instead of "enduring more bloodshed". However as the video mentioned earlier, and I believe Spock says to Kirk while they're assessing the damage - the Enterprise only had battery power available for a few phaser shots at this point. So perhaps less of a moral choice by Kirk and more a matter of available resources.
15:33 in the screenplay, and the film as presented, the Enterprise ends this engagement on battery power only. AUX power is restored after the fact. What Enterprise uses against the Reliant is the phaser power that was already diverted their when she went to yellow alert.
17:18 It was definitely referring to the photon launcher. They damaged the warp drive, meaning the phaser banks were cut off.(Established in TMP. If the phasers aren't charged before hand, they won't be able to fire until whatever primary power issues are resolved.) They damaged the photon torpedo launch controls, meaning the torps were out. This nullifies Reliant's ability to fire.
17:30 What else was he supposed to do? The Enterprise had no power, her torpedo bays were not primed for battle, her phaser banks were likely depleted of power after the few shots they managed to get off on the Reliant.
17:34 Yeah, no. Kirk doesn't "let the Reliant go". Everything in the scene indicates that the Enterprise is basically dead in space after her single phaser barrage against Reliant. Scotty reports, right before the minute countdown starts that they are on "just the battery." That's not enough to run the impulse engines, or the weapons systems. The ship is dead in space. That's why the Enterprise doesn't even try to move out of Reliant's way as it careens past them. She can't.
Reliant's strikes were exact. The heavy phaser barrage hulls Main Engineering, knocking out the main energizer, choking the ship of its main power supply. While the crew are recoiling from this crippling shot and attempting to get AUX power flowing to the systems (which even Spock says wont be enough to escape), Khan fires the aft torpedo, hitting the Enterprise amidships in the aft quarter of the saucer section. This shot hits near where one of the two fusion reacotrs are supposedly located in the saucer section. This shot knocks out the AUX power, leaving the ship effectively dead in space.
It's incredibly simple, focus, and smartly written.
Did you notice when Captain Terrell and Chekov first landed on Seti Alpha 5 and walked into the Botany Bay and the camera does a slow pan of the deserted interior.
Look on the bookshelf and you can read some of the books Khan was stranded with.
There is a copy of Moby Dick on the bookshelf.
My nephews saw this movie for the first time just a few hours ago. What a crazy coincidence. BTW They loved it. Hated the ending but that's understandable 😄
Of course, everyone has their preferences, but it was exactly that outcome that made "The Wrath of Khan" the best film in the entire Star Trek franchise. It has become a script standard to this day.
Lol reminds of the urban legend that follows:
Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10-10-95.
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.[2]
thanks for the video of the Epic locking horns of the Enterprise and Reliant, it (the video) took just as much admiration and effort to give a recap from breakdown of ships to the contrast of those commanding them. for such a well made , directed, and acted movie , Trek gave me joy as a boy in the 4th grade when I acquired it on VHS and will stand as the saving grace of the franchise
I love the use of the particular almost melodic "mournful sensor wail" from Wrath of Khan here, something about the sound design in that movie seemed particularly unique.
I agree. The Wrath of Kahn is the best of ALL Star Trek movies! My next choice would be The Undiscovered Country. Scrap all of the Kelvin movies. When they said Kelvin timeline, I had hoped that it referred to the Kelvins from the TOS "By Any Other Name"
Been waiting on this break down for awhile!
I was kind of surprised you didn't use more sound effects, which you normally do in your videos. The Enterprise's phasers didn't make any noise at all!
I would like to note that in "The Ultimate Computer," Kirk avoided a potentially lethal misunderstanding by NOT raising shields. He also avoided total destruction by V'ger by not raising shields before V'ger fired. Perhaps he had the same thinking here.
In both of those situations he explained his reasoning. In the ultimate computer HIS ship had just attacked the other starships so HE was technically the aggressor. In TMP V'ger had already been attacked by the Klingons and attacked the epsilon station. Both had likely taking steps to try and defend itself by raising shields. In both those situations he DELIBERATELY ordered the shields be kept down. The reliant was another federation starship acting strangely. In fact going to a defensive stance but keeping weapons offline would have been a BETTER choice. No the scene was written with an intentional plot hole because a yellow alert by default should have raised shields and the attack could not have occurred the way it did without it.
But consider this minor alteration: Kirk orders yellow alert after Savik mentions regulations. Shields go up. Reliant sends a broken (and fake) message saying they had suffered a radiation leak and need assistance. Kirk not checking with Spock first orders shields down and damage control/medical teams to the transporter room to assist. Spock not wanting to question Kirk's orders (like he just chided Savik over a moment ago) does an independent scan and reports there is no radiation coming from the Reliant. Rest of the scene with the attack plays out normally.
This minor change would fit within the time frame and dialog of the scene easily and explain everything as to why Kirk says he got caught with his pants down.
Nonetheless, V'Ger took them as hostile and fired anyway, forcing the deflectors to pop on automatically. So as a strategy, Kirk is 0 for 2.
Or 1 for 3, I guess
I loved this so much! I can’t wait for part 2. I’m 50 years old and have seen the movie over 100 times and this breakdown was fantastic!
Lol me too. 😂
Honestly to me this movie will go down in history as one of the brilliant excellent uses of models ever in movie history! It was during the time of Empire Strikes back! Another excellent use of models in movie. A thing I hope Hollywood goes back to at least some. All CGI is NOT the way to go forward!
I like how when khan first speaks with Kirk, his bridge crew are wearing war trophies from starfleet officers like barbarians that just sacked Rome
I've seen WW2 naval break downs, and this is right up there. The detail and accuracy is incredible. Thank you for this.
The line about the damage to the photon controls and the warp drive is meant to explain why they can’t fire back. In Star Trek 1 it was explained that the phasers are powered directly by the warp drive for more power. So if the warp drive is down, phasers are too. But the movie also demonstrated that the photon torpedoes are independent of the warp drive.
So “photon controls” must refer to the controls for the photon torpedoes to explain why they too cannot be used.
Of course, Enterprise is somehow able to fire a limited phaser burst on aux power. But perhaps Kirk had requested she be able to do that, after the wormhole incident in ST1, or Scotty is just so good and experienced that he can reroute power like that while Khans crew cannot.
Best phaser sound ever. Almost electric.
I have seen RUclips videos that point out that Reliant actually has more Mass than the Enterprise. this is mostly worked out by taking the models of both and looking at surface area or dunking them in water.
I have always looked at it as the Reliant as a "New" light Cruser. Enterprise was an "Old" Heavy cruiser and Excelsior is the "New" heavy cruiser. thus and like navy's for the last 100+ years a new destroyer could outclass an older Cruiser
Enjoy your work thanks for the diversion.
You are certainly welcome and thank you! I'll be sure to mention these supers on ending of my next video!
“Ceti Alpha 6 exploded, 6 months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and everything was laid waste. ‘Admiral’ Kirk never bothered to check on our progress.”
-Khan
^^For anyone wondering how that happened. No need to explain it in a separate video really…..
I know it's not canon, but in a few of the Starfleet battles games, maybe Orion Pirats, from the early 2000s, there were like 20 Miranda variations. A few had the extra torpedo pod.
When the Enterprise was redesigned, phaser control was routed to draw power from the warp drive (ST TMP), so it's logical to assume that all Federation ships have the same setup. By Kirk destroying the impulse crystals on Reliant, he effectively knocked out primary warp power (which also took out the phasers), and collateral damaged the photon torpedo launcher, situated just above the impulse crystal. Hope this helps.
This is an incredible battle breakdown. I have been watching this movie over and over since I was a kid. I loved that they did a continuation from an original series episode. The battle was very tactical and well made. I now can see why both ships took as much damage as they did when hit by weapons. Keep up the fantastic work!
The Enterprise was being used as a training ship. Star Fleet had it slated to be decommission when they returned (likely for the latest refit. It's not uncommon in current navies to decommission a ship before an overhaul. The Enterprise's sister ship was undergoing this process already but it was recommissioned as the Enterprise NCC1701A. Also not uncommon in navies of our time.)
If you haven't already I'd suggest reading through the technical books published on both ships that explain their systems and layouts. Reliant has a deflector, she also has a pair of phaser banks fore the bridge on the dorsal side of the primary hull by the name paint and a matching pair ventral side if memory serves. Enterprise's phasers are routed through warp power relays to give them more punch, etc.. You are spot on about the Miranda class being the workhorse of the fleet and seeing a lot of variations. This particular ship had also had a somewhat recent refit if memory serves. Lot of guesswork here to things that are addressed in previous documentation. Overall the video is well done and I enjoyed.
This is my second favourite starship battle, following "Balance of Terror".
The battles in "Wrath" and "Terror" are similar in that they are one-ship-versus-one-ship, battles of wits, long, and we experience the death of people whom we have come to know.
I found these battles much more interesting and realistic than the thousand-ships-versus-thousand-ships explosion festivals in some other shows. Those are just fireworks and kaleidoscopes. Real combat involves human beings ... tragically.
I think Kirk didn't push the fight because he couldn't - Scotty had already told him the battery could only give "a few shots" of the phasers, in the midst of the last damage report before Khan hailed the Enterprise. (Spock replied with "not enough against their shields".) There was only one chance, and Kirk had to make it count before using what he could to get past this. It wasn't until auxiliary power was restored later he could really plan on *trying* to fight the Reliant - and even then he had to pick his battlefield carefully. A place the advantages and disadvantages could make the fight more even, without shields and without the ability to weapons-lock.
But anyone who saw the movie knows how that went down, and the Enterprise almost lost that engagement anyway. The damage in the initial surprise attack had much more of an impact, to the point Starfleet seriously was intending to retire it rather than fix it.
My favorite movie of all time. I'm trying to get the feel of these encounters between Kirk and Khan just right. So it's taking me longer than I would like to get my game based on these types of encounters out, but I want it to be about as perfect as I can get it. Looking forward to the day when I can see an unlimited number of these battles play out between players. Your videos are a big help. You should watch a movie called "The Enemy Below", it's where the original series adopted their idea for starship combat. The episode "Balance of Terror" almost mimics the movie.
I am a long time trekkie: st:tm and st:wok in movie theaters.
This is, by far, the best breakdown I've seen or head of what's going on in this movie.
Congratulations! And thank you for sharing!
The Enterprise was refit closer to 2270, not 2279. The Motion Picture takes place only two years after the end of Kirks first 5 year mission ended which was in the late 2260's, despite the film being released in 1979 and the cast aged 10 years, the characters would have only aged 2 or 3 years.
Okay let's break this down shall we...... First the USS reliant is a frigate, yes it is heavily armed as the class patrolled the neutral zone. It is more of a combat ship than a explorer hence is why if you look at her bridge you see it is smaller than that of the Enterprise as it has limited research stations. ( similar to the defiant in DS9). The ship does have navigation deflection arrays. If you look at the bottom of the Reliants hull the two objects on the aft under the shuttle bays you will see two large square objects. With three openings facing forward towards the bow. These are the navigational deflectors. They sit lower to the hull to protect them from enemy fire in bow to bow attacks. As after all again the class is more a military ship than a research vessel.... The heavy phaser units on the weapons pod roll bar with thief firing arcs and photon torpedo Bay pod are for defense of the ship untill more reinforcement could arrive.
As for the attack on the Enterprise. Checkov provided Khan where the engineering section on the Enterprise was which Khan knew was the best place to attack as it controlled everything on Enterprise. And he only got the information thanks to the eel he placed inside Checkov......
Kirk not wanting to be bested by a lieutenant on proper procedure when she was still wet behind the ears ( excuse the pun) and his experience when he was captain.let it get the Best of him. And he was at fault for the Enterprise being attacked for not going to yellow alert and raising shields as was protocol....it was his ego that got in the way...which was why he states I did Nothing! I must be getting senile....as he knew he would not had done that except he wanted to upstage Savvik for reminding him of his duty under Regulations ......
As I remember, going to yellow alert in TNG-era, does raise shields, but given TNB was post-kirk era, this measure may have to do with Kirk's flaw in Reliant's first encounter. But on Enterprise series, when going to yellow alert does polarize the hull, something that may be feasible to still exist in Kirk era.
Starfleet order 12 does state to raise shields for vessles that dont respond to hails but is probably meant for unknown ships probably not of federation origon. Kirks order for yellow alert is probably more in line with how the order is meant to be interpreted but savik (a vulcan) would take it as the literal interpretation. My beef with kirk os that when they realized reliant lied about their emmissions he should have gone to red alert.
This is a masterpiece. Entertaining, intelligent, and thoroughly researched. Well done.
I've been watching ST since the '70s and I have the original tech manual and blueprints and am versed in the newer tech things through STNG. I have to say you have a great job with this video. I agree with the assumptions you have made and the battle breakdown in very good.
I 3d printed both vessels to scale (based on saucer width) and the Miranda class has slightly more displacement than the Constitution.
From early tech manuals that I read way back in the 90s from a fellow trek nerd, the Reliant’s phaser hard points on the boom were directly linked to the warp core and were supposed to be a lot more powerful than the standard phasers mounted on the saucer. This has probably been retconned several times over at this point, but I always felt the Reliant had a better setup for combat.
The lack of aft torpedos on the Enterprise was also retconned (or refitted) on later models with a single torpedo launcher mounted aft of the primary forward facing launchers. Oh one side note, in the Enterprise episode “In a mirror darkly” had the old Constitution class with an aft torpedo launcher which was a continuity error, though it was cool when Archer asked if the ship had it and evil Trip responded with “you better believe it”. Should’ve gone with phasers instead.
I really enjoyed this movie it's something I can watch several times over I miss the older movies probably nostalgic since I grew up watching the original movies but they still hold up well after all this time and yes the story was written well as most older movies are
Great video and analysis. I agree with a previous comment Kirk did not decide to let Kahn go he simply did not have any power left in the batteries after he used his,”just a few shots” on Khan. I just subscribed.
I don’t think it’s apathy. Kirk feels he’s too old to be a Captain. Not physical enough anymore to throw punches. Not mentally sharp enough to make decisions. Spock and McCoy know he’s feeling this way and are trying to help him refind his confidence. It’s a very reasonable and typical way for a man in his fifties to feel.
Amazing. I never had a good idea about the ship’s internal layout. It makes sense that Khan’s people would be an exceptionally gifted crew.
"You will never find consistency."
Ain't that the truth. I remember, very early one, one game that described the Reliant as being a heavy cruiser that was supposedly more powerful - at least in armament - than the Enterprise. This was probably based on early movie details sent to licensees that were later changed to make the Reliant the weaker ship, but having the element of surprise.
All the Starships that have Constitution Class style saucer hull, have a secondary Navigational Deflector array directly under the saucer dish... you can see all four of the Navigational Deflector array housings under the dish
I'm late to the party here, but I have a Star Trek RPG guide for starships, and the entry for the Enterprise indicates that the refit overhauled the phasers to siphon power directly from the warp core itself. It wouldn't be a stretch to guess that the Miranda Class does this by default so when Joaquin says the warp drive is damaged, he is indicating that there isn't enough power from the warp drive to power phasers. And seeing where the ship was hit, it's possible they may be using the "automation center" like in Star Trek 3 so the damage they took basically knocked their weapons offline completely.
15:32 Nope. IN the script and the film as presented, the Enterprise ends this engagement on battery power only. AUX power is restored after the fact. What Enterprise uses against the Reliant is the phaser power that was already diverted their when she went to yellow alert.
17:19 It was definitely referring to the photon launcher. They damaged the warp drive, meaning the phaser banks were cut off. They damaged the photon controls, meaning the torpedos were out. This nullifies Reliants ability to fire.
17:31 What else was he supposed to do? The Enterprise had no power, her torpedo bays were not primed for battle, her phaser banks were likely depleted of power after the few shots tehy managed to get off on the Reliant.
I've always said that the Miranda-class starship is like the old HMS Hood, in that she packed a heavy punch but had a glass jaw when it came to shield generation.
Khan hit main engineering where not only the physical damage would hurt the ship, but also where the people who were best at fixing the ship were located. The Constitution-class can generate incredible amounts of power, and if the Enterprise were firing on the Reliant with better than battery power she would have blown her out of space.
Fantastic Breakdown, i've hope you can also breakdown the Enterprise battle with the Bird of Prey in ST 3 and the Enterprise, Excelsion vs Chang's Bird of Prey in ST 6.
The battle between the Enterprise and the Reliant comes down to an experienced commander and crew of a star ship. This is why Kirk and crew won against Khan and an inexperienced crew on board the Reliant.
Thanks! Damnit, if I had your skills...
Thank you! Skill comes from practice ,- Philip Ng, my kung fu teacher.
Being a heavy cruise/explorer I think the Constitution is able to do most tasks very well without modification. The Miranda class seems to be a class designed to be reconfigured for specific tasks (transport, science, tactical). The Constitution, being designed for multi tasking, probably has higher power generation capabilities that an experienced engineer could harness and redirect cleverly. The Miranda, probably has less power to play with. In the first barrage Khan goes straight for the power systems of the Enterprise (the warp drive) to take away that massive advantage.
The Constitution is designed to operate for long periods in remote areas, so it probably has the higher reserve power capacity too (larger batteries higher secondary power generation). That’s the second system Khan targets (impulse drive). Scotty seems very concerned with the power systems after both attacks, almost shocked even. Even auxiliary (backup) power is affected.
It’s a really clever battle that is less about raw firepower and more about tactics. Only a few shots are fired by each combatant. Khan shows restraint, wanting to put Kirk in a cat and mouse game. Kirk is forced to ration what little power the ship has access to, every shot must count.
Forcing both combatants to show restraint makes the entire thing so much more satisfying to watch.
In all these older movies, you get the feel that starships are these large and extremely heavy vessels that take a lot of space to maneuver. They are reminiscent of the way battleships and other military ships maneuver on the ocean.
I'm now 40 years old and watched the original series on TV back then. I was never really interested in it, but I thought it was incredibly cool. Unfortunately, I only really became a fan when I got older. I've just seen the movie for the first time and it's a masterpiece in my eyes. It's hard to believe that the movie is from the early 80s like i am... I think I'm becoming a Trekkie with my 40 years. Just starting to watch Next Generation. Hope I like it as much as the original
Same!
I assumed that yellow alert also, and principally, polarizes the hull plating. This would seemingly require less power than shields and therefore be a suitably precautionary measure against a lower risk attack.
This was excellent btw; you have a new subscriber.
I used to really dislike the way the pulse phasers looked in this movie, but it has really grown on me over the years and was quite ahead of its time. And of course it is the only time we see ships firing phasers in all of TMP era, so we don't have a really clear idea how long they were in use before most Starfleet ships reverted back to beam phasers. In fact, we don't really know if this was a different type of phaser at all, or just a mode of operation available that might be optimal in certain circumstances. I think the scenes of hand phasers firing in this movie lend evidence to different hardware though.
You forget that in TMP that Decker specifically belays Kirk's phaser order in the warmhole and switched to photon torpedoes because the refit version channels it's power through the warp drive engines for more power.
And I think the blue dome on the Reliant is essentially the deflector dish for that configuration.
But excellent analysis of the whole exchange! Brilliant!🤘🏻
And loved how you used some of the original sound effects that make it really definitive! 👏🏻😁
The blue dome is definitely part of the power/reactor systems for the impulse drive. The Excelsior also has the blue dome on its saucer.
It would have been nice to have seen the battle assessment during their fight in the Mutara nebula, like when the Reliant fired into the Enterprise's port torpedo launcher (and the docking port) and when the Entprise returned fire near the bridge, which killed Jaquime. Then in the final battle when the Enterprise rose up behind the Reliant and shot her torpedo launcher with a topedo and shot her port nessele with a few phaser shots and blew it off with a topedo, crippling the Reliant and critically injuring Khan while the rest of his people were killed.
I love what you’ve done here - just joined the channel.
Not to be the armchair critic but, two things: 1. It’s said, individually, the Enterprise’ phaser type (FH-11) are more powerful than Reliant type (FH-10); 2. the torpedo hit Enterprise takes is on the other side of the secondary hull engineering, not the saucer section. You can see this in the next movie which shows the battle damage. There are also hints to this during the battle, like when Spock gives Kirk a damage report, and when we see the torpedo direction coming down before impact. I don’t know why they didn’t include battle damage in Wrath of Kahn. Was a major blunder.
I think it was a good idea for Kirk to abandon fight as soon as he damaged the Reliant enough.
Just how extensive the damage to the Enterprise was, was still mostly unknown, the crew of cadets was still pretty shaken up and he had no idea what other aces Khan might have up his sleeve. It was a good idea to retreat, assess the damage and prepare for the next engagement instead of risking it all in an immediate all out fight.
Primary deflector is to prevent space dust/rocks, etc. from hitting the ship during impulse power. At full impulse a rock the size of a softball could really mess up a ship without shields.
Warp core field is generated by the nacelles.
Ok. A few things, the Miranda roll bar phasers are no more powerful, but its how the cover rear with phasers and gives a more aggressive look. If anything, those are banks tied to the warp system like all of 1701. The fix for that was phaser batteries to augment the loss of warp power and provide backup phaser power on emergency power, but reduced power.
Enterprise had no maneuvering, no aux or mains, no impulse power. It was reported while Kirk was touring sickbay. In the OR.
Sulu not only hit the impulse crystal, his shots hit what at first glance is just the hull. That area is weapons control. Enterprise seemingly with full weapons but no shields and drifting vs "shield malfunction", being on thrusters, and weapons damage. Thats why he withdrew
So my immediate thought based on your excellent analysis is that yes Kirk is in a midlife crisis in his career, as one of the youngest Starfleet captains ever and then promoted to admiral He's kind of reached the limit of his ambition. What you've neglected to cover and what I've read is that just one sip of romulan ale is enough to get you drunk. So Dr McCoy and admiral Kirk are literally stepping onto the bridge pretty wasted. This is why romulan ale is illegal at least one reason. But it's clear they're pretty drunk...
The only detail I would add is that the dome on the bottom of the saucer section is the main sensor dome and has been since TOS. After the torpedo strike and the starboard side of the bridge explodes, Spock's pull-out scanner console is dark. When the Enterprise makes it to Regula Station, Spock points out they are basically blind because that aft torpedo strike took out the sensors. So the phaser strike was the proverbial baton to the knee that hobbles the Enterprise, and the torpedo to the sensor dome is the stick in the eye to blind them. From a tactical standpoint, extremely efficient. If Kahn's ego weren't so massively inflated along with his other abilities, he might've just kept shooting until the Enterprise exploded and gone on his way. But then it wouldn't be much of a revenge film lol
The torpedo didn't hit the sensor dome. It had in the rear quarter of the saucer section. Exactly where one of the two aux fusion reacotrs is located in the saucer.
Reliant's phaser strike took out the main power energizer. The torpedo took out auxiliary power. The Enteprrise had charged its phaser banks before the attack, which is how Sulu is still able to fire the phasers at that point.
@StevenJShow incorrect. And how you know is by what exploded on the bridge, and what was not working when they got to Regula. When the torpedo hits, the science station blows up. Needlessly dramatic, perhaps. But it's a classic military tactic: blind and paralyze your enemy. Later, when the arrive at Regula I, Spock's station is dark and he says "scanners and sensors are still inoperative" and he and Kirk exchange commentary about Regula being "a great rock in space" and how Reliant could be hiding behind that rock and they wouldn't know.
As for the fusion reactors, they're still at the top of the Impulse Drive housing on B-Deck just like in TOS. Y'see, unlike the rubbish that is Mister Scott's Guide to the Enterprise (a non-canon piece of fanwank. Delightful fanwank, but still fanwank), my understanding of the layout of the ship is extrapolated from Canon sources, ergo what i see and hear on-screen. I've seen this movie a couple hundred times, and I've read the script liner notes and heard the director commentaries. And that's what happened. The End.
BY FARE THE BEST The sound The real story no hippie drama ---perfect.
Directors of star wars and trek and others take note, that battle was tense, exciting and dramatic, and yet slow, you don't need everything to be quick cuts, explosions and everything fast and in your face like the reboot star treks
I don't think warp cores are ejectable at this time. Honestly, I kinda like the idea that it was fairly new with the Nebula/Galaxy era (which would explain why they had so many issues with warp cores and when trying to eject warp cores in TNG - new ejecting design and not all the safeties are quite up to dealing with what ships actually can get into in the field). It would also explain why he'd aim further back and essentially cause the damage to force a "scram" of the warp core since the created energy would have nowhere to go except the wrecked area.
Nice! Wrath of Khan has been on a lot of channels lately hasn't it?
The movie might not've made as much money as some of the onther ones, but for entertainment it's certainly at the top of the list. I still get a tear when Shatner's voice catches on reading that line.
Jack Horners music is on point and the FX still holds up.
Many people still argue for nerd points about the warp drives in Star Trek, but when has there ever been consistency in the show? I guess the problem started with TNG when the Producers decided that they couldn't just 'show' professionals at work, they had to 'tell you' about it via infamous 'technobabble'? But once you start doing that you start writing yourself into a corner. Add into that, different writers every week, guest directors, guest-stars, stand-in Producers and then the creator of the show dies; I can't imagine how messy it got.
A common point of contention are the 2 columns leading to the core in the middle. It's a pipe with a magnetic insulator to stop the contents touching [boom], or causing friction, yet it's often described as the critical factor of the 'power level' of the core, even if the reaction chamber where the magic happens is actually quite modest. But usually nothing outside of warp factor speeds is ever really stated in the show, any power output is given in technobabble, therefore is unreliable.
Example: In DS9, Odo and his changeling friend in a dress, roll around on top of the Defiant reactor chamber like it's a 4 poster bed, yet, because the ship is at best 4 decks tall the Defiant is described, by the fandom, as having a lower power reactor than TNG or Voyager because it isn't as tall.
I don't ever want anyone to fabricate an in-universe explanation for a GNDN pipe. For me, such a pipe will always be something that "Goes Nowhere, Does Nothing".🙂
FYI, the soundtrack conpoaser's name was James Horner, not Jack.Jack Horner is the name a of a fairly well known paleontologist, probably best known for consulting on the orignal Jurassic Park movies.
Never understood why the Constitution class had no rear torpedoes, but the fact is they could be installed. In the book "Ships of the Star Fleet 2290-2291: Cruisers & Frigates" The USS America (Albeit she's designated as an "Enterprise II class. Confusing i know) was shown having rear firing torpedoes and it was noted that even "though not presently planned, this capability may be incorporated in some new-build ships at a later date." Personally i'm like "why not give them that from the moment they refitted the Enterprise , especially since that feature was already coming for other ships classes as well ?
This first attack was the worst!
When Khan found Kirk, he had the upper hand.
He knew just where to hit the enterprise on the engine room to take away power!
The second time he attacked in the nebula was a blind shot phaser attack or was he trying to take out the torpedo room weapon systems?
Interesting tactical comparisons. But I'd suggest that even though it's more heavily armed, the reliant doesnt have the same weapon arc coverage underneath so tactically this would give the connie refit more options being able to fire in all directions.
Something to consider about the Enterprise and her phasers is, they're probably as powerful or maybe even slightly more powerful that the Pulse Cannons on the Reliant. Taking evidence from WoK directly wouldn't suggest this (unless you'd seen the Motion Picture), but in the Motion Picture, Commander Decker tells Kirk, after the worm hole that the Phasers are boosted by routing them directly through the Warp Core and were offline when the warp core went out of whack (hence why they couldn't be used to destroy the asteroid). After the Enterprise is crippled Kirk asks if the Phasers could get through Reliant's shields. Spock says "Not on Auxiliary power." (might have been not on batteries, I don't remember off hand). So despite the layout, Enterprise might have an edge in forward firepower over Reliant.
Really good 😊
Thank you! Cheers!
I do love the reference to submarine warfare being similar to this. It IS just two tubes of metal trying to hunt each other with futuristic weapons. Plus it holds even more true in the nebula battle. Looking forward to seeing it.
Nicholas Meyer was inspired by the Hornblower novels.
Kirk didn't let Khan go the Enterprise only had just enough power for those two shots. The Enterprise was dead in the water or space. It took the entire time of travel to Regula One and Kirk's away investigation/diversion just to get partial power back.
Going after the warp drive disables the phasers. That was touched upon in the previous movie when they fell into the wormhole. Captain Decker had to belay a phaser order because they were at warp, and firing phasers at the asteroid wouldn't work since the phasers drew their power from the engaged warp drive.
I wouldn't say that Khan wanted to see Kirk's face so much as he wanted all information on Genesis. Seeing Kirk was a bonus.
This was amazing. I've watched this movie my entire life, but I've never seen such a good breakdown. Like you pointed out, tech details are all over the place. I think this was a really thoughtful breakdown of the information we have. Can't wait to see more.
This is just far and away the best thought out and plausible walk through of anything like this. I really do think depth adds weight to stories (or at least lots of stories benefit from it and Trek is one of them).
You would think that the Ceti Alpha Solar system would have been scanned, which would have shown that one of the planets was not there anymore.
Awesome video. Need more of these…I’d love to see the battle from Balance of Terror
Edit: oh damn, just checked the channel and there already is one! Hell yea!
This is also the first and last TOS movie when we see ship phasers used. In all the others, it’s just torpedoes.
At 6:26 minute mark not sure if has been mentioned a typo on the screen = EMMIT versus “emit”.
It's always impressed me how much the writers thought about how the ships work, how to use that to tell the story, and how to communicate that to an audience who might not be familiar with Trek. The hits shown are mostly followed by interior shots in the correct location, with a focus on how the ships use energy. The Enterprise doesn't have it's guns shot off or armor stripped away - it loses the energy needed to power weapons and shields. That is not at all how starships in other franchises work, nor how anything viewers might be familiar with in the real world works, but the movie does an excellent job or showing it in detail.
It also reflects Khans intention to cripple but not destroy the Enterprise and references the fact that Khan studied the design of the Enterprise (in the TOS episode, and possibly again onboard the Reliant). Great storytelling.
Of course! We are one big happy fleet!
This is good. You can tell you put in so much for this vid. Thank you