The Menendez Brothers: Innocent or Guilty? (Reupload)
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
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You guys are the Best 😊😊😊😊
Disregard my last comment. Thanks for fixing it quickly!
That stuff looks like it tastes of fresh dirt 😅
New York Knickerbockers
@@beast667 I think it looks like algae. Too green for me.
Yay, the whole episode is up now! This is the second longest one I've written this far (the longest is coming out soon!) so I hope everybody enjoyed...you know, as much as you can enjoy horrible stories about murder and abuse. For everyone that was hear yesterday, 1:38:00 is about where we left off.
And for anyone who gets the reference, one of the title cards was supposed to be Judge Weisberg Does Everything Twice Twice (Totally get why Simon assumed it was a typo)
Also, apologies to Mark Jackson and his fans. I for some reason write Johnson the first time, despite looking directly at the card, then just referred back to the incorrect name I had written at the start.
Thanks as always Kevin. You're a legend, especially for baiting Simon to go on that baldness tangent.
Of course we enjoy them Kevin, in our twisted way, many crime fanatics find these true stories somehow calming, soothing. Maybe it helps keep our moral compasses in check? Fantastic writing, as always, thank you, Kevin & team, ❤ from Australia 🇦🇺 . Ps I hope Simon is feeding you enough basement fungus so that you can keep writing these disturbing gems! 🍄 😉 👍
Thanks for keeping us updated and writing such bangers Kevin you’re the real MVP!
Thank you for all the excellent work.
Kevin you are a legend, I love your work. Please look into the home Invasion that took place in the 90’s in Oakley, Utah. Crazy story, look it up.
My husband went to school with the boys. He said the family was sick, and he couldnt stand stand being near the father, that he was creepy and very touchy....and he is still so very sad that the boys were convicted, he knows those boys were physically and mentally abused. It is such a sad thing that boys and men are to this day not considered TRULY sex abuse victims.
Stop lying. Mendez brothers are spoiled. They wanted to live a rich and Lavish life style. They murdered their parents.
@@helldog63
Wtf is wrong with you?
People who work with and advocate on behalf of childhood victims of SA know better. Ignorant people do not want to hear these uncomfortable truths. If you don't know, it isn't real. Right? Denial.
I'll be totally honest, I had only ever heard the "rich kids murder parents for money" angle and so I thought they were totally guilty, but hearing about this changes everything for me. Let's face it -- if this were a young girl who was captured and held hostage for years being abused, then one day manages to break free and kill her abuser, she'd be lauded as a hero. They should be released with time served. I do not in any way feel that they'd be a threat to the general public.
@@overworkedcna412While I agree that someone who manages to break free and kill their abuser is a hero, I have seen numerous cases where a girl/woman did just that and was tried, convicted, and demonized by the public for doing so, not lauded as a hero. While I do not disagree that there is bias against seeing boys/men as victims of abuse and that cases of abuse against boys may be treated differently than those against girls, the fact is that all victims are more often than not treated as perpetrators when they take action to end the abuse. Race is also a determining factor: white women are more likely to be seen as heroic victims escaping abuse in these caes, while women of color are more likely to just be treated as murderers, no matter what horors they were subjected to and were trying to escape from.
If an 8 year old tells you they're being sexually abused...idk that holds some weight. Especially against parents who were neglectful at the best of times and psychologically/physically abuse the rest of the time.
It is absolutely possible he decided to get Kitty pregnant 'all on his own'. She wouldn't divorce him, nonconsenual sex between spouses wasn't rape and abortion was off the table. Husbands were privy to their wives medical records at the time as well, so no hiding birth control, if she were even inclined to use it.
Jose maybe calculating but not that calculating. Seems like they were a young couple in love when they married and people were expected to marry young and have kids then. More likely Jose probably kept dragging her along promising baby sitters, au pairs, etc. as he climb the corporate ladder.
@@SEAZNDragon if he wanted kids, she wouldn't have had a choice. She wanted her own career, he wanted a legacy. Tbs, they may have married *because* she was pregnant, or she was initially on board & changed her mind after the fact. Today there are a lot more options of OTC birth control that can be used surreptitiously if needed.
Yeah, the good old days. Let's not go back.
@@andiward7068 That's still assuming Kitty wanted an abortion at the time of the pregnancy. Sure it's well documented she hated her sons and blame them for her lack of a career, but that didn't seem to materialize until several years after the births and around the time she learn of Jose's affairs. I'm sure realizing you gave up a career for a man who cheated on you would put a damper on being a mom.
@@Bildgesmythethe republicans in the US certainly want to go back to that. 🤮
It’s amazing how things have changed. I was in high school in the 80’s. It was absolutely the belief that boys couldn’t be sexually abused. Really that stuck around right in to the 2000’s.
I think the phrase “Over convicted” is spot on
Just a note: Marital SA/r@pe was legal in the US until 1993 - so it's very possible that she had zero autonomy when it came to those kids.
????? Excuse me what the fuck, was there seriously a way to rape without life improsenment?
Dad Simon gushing over his kid(s) is downright adorable.
That ending was totally unexpected. I really do think the fact that they were abused makes a massive difference, they deserve a new trial. As a survivor of childhood physical and mental abuse, it really does mess with your head. It feels like living in a war zone and you’re constantly on edge. I would be lying if I had never considered ending the scumbag that abused me, at the time and every now and then since.
Yeah, there was a period after my sexual assault where the idea of myself or someone else exacting revenge on my attacker made me feel more secure. I think it was sort of my mind trying to reassert a feeling of power.
Big difference between thinking it and acting on it. I've also been through abuse and we constantly see it in Serial Killers as well. Murder is still murder, I don't think a new trial is necessary. They are still without a doubt guilty of murder. It's not like the context will change it to a lesser charge
oh, I feel this. if u have to tell ur new wife "u can't touch my children to punish them" bc said wife is breaking wooden kitchen utensils u maybe have the wrong spouse. (and if u think the only kind of "real" scar is the kind u can physically see, u are maybe not dad of the year.) I never thought about ending her myself bc I was too afraid of the repercussions but I sure did fantasize about her grisly end for a long ass time. nowadays I'm completely apathetic toward her. I don't forgive her by any means, but she left me with crippling anxiety and depression. I just don't have the energy to give a damn about what happens to her one way or the other.
I disagree. I am a survivor myself of CSA, and grew up in the 80's when you got spanked at school and home. It was a horrible. And yes, I did and still do have fantasies about going back and righting the wrongs done to me. However, even if the abuse occurred, the brothers planned this murder. It was premeditated as evident by the fact that they bought two shotguns using false identification. Furthermore, they admit, and the evidence shows they fired first. They also reloaded their weapons and continued firing when their victims were clearly incapacitated. And most importantly they did these things as legal adults. Even if you want to say the first shots were because they feared for their lives (and there is zero evidence to substantiate that claim) the fact is they left the room where their parents lay dying, reloaded their shotguns and came back and resumed shooting them.
I am not saying that the parents weren't bad people, but Kyle and Lyle's actions were premeditated murder and they bothe deserve life. The alleged abuse (some of which I think did occur, but I have my doubts as to the extent) offers enough mitigation that the needle isn't warranted.
@EmmaChihuahua81 100% correct. People, Simon included here, do not understand the legal aspects at play here. Simon for example kept mentioning his "reasonable doubt" however, reasonable doubt is for determining if someone is innocent or guilty. That does not apply in this particular case as we already are aware of their guilt, this is a case to determine the severity OF that said guilt and thus reasonable doubt does not apply here. Secondly, people do not understand or grasp just how stringent the laws for self defense are. In the simplest terms, essentially, unless the person is armed, arming themselves, actively assaulting you, or approaching you with malicious intent (such as someone breaking into your home) then it likely does not constitute self defense. Via the facts provided from both court cases, I see no legal standing for a plea of self defense. Yes, there could well have been the father saying he would kill them but anyone who has gamed online has received 100s of these such threatening words and that does not provide grounds for self defense. So to recap, there is no case for self defense and reasonable doubt is nonapplicable here. So what does that leave us with? It leaves us with the degree to which they are guilty for taking their parents lives. Given the premeditated nature of the attack, it falls under 1st degree murder. Alright so we know they are guilty of 1st degree murder, so what's the trial ACTUALLY to determine? Very simple, the sentencing. The sentencing is the only thing in question here and they already were spared death row due to having no prior history of violent crime. The only argument I can see is the "no parole" part of their sentencing.
there were also naked photos of them found from around at 6-8. from the chest down. found in an envelope with kitty’s handwriting on it. very dark and upsetting that they got life without parole.
I remember my mom stood very firm on the boys being abused.Mostly because my uncle was in prison with Eric for a time and said he believed his side of things and that he was a really nice kid.
I am from a household similar to theirs which made me not react to much until my heart sank to my stomach when I heard "was no longer in its aquarium" because I share a room with my rabbit who looks like the one Jen edited in except with blue eyes. I couldn't imagine that happening to him and to think that someone had the heart to bash in a soft fluffy and innocent being's skull and throw it into the garbage ー disgusting. Yet the father reminded me of my own.
That's terrible. I'm sorry. I hope you have many happy years with your bunny!
Wow, we really were just fed one side of the story here in America. This video totally changed my mind how I felt about this trial. I was around 15 when it was televised and everyone I knew thought they were completely guilty.
Same, to the point where the phrase "Menendez Brothers" sent a chill up your spine as cold blooded parent murderers. There was so much more to this than I knew.
Well they are still completely guilty. They just have additional motive now
@@WhydTheyChangeOurNamesWell, their motive completely changes the outcome, doesn't it? They aren't complete cold blooded murderers. Just like a father killing their child's abuser isn't a completely frowned upon action.
@iulia.bianca.b it does not in this case, this was not a crime of passion due to the abuse. This was a planned out premeditated murder and the absolute brutal nature of the attack and staging it as a mob hit also shows it wasn't just blind rage/passion. This was a thought out attack plain and simple.
@@WhydTheyChangeOurNames Erik can be heard on their own confession tape while crying repeatedly saying "I had no choice, I had no choice. I would have taken any other choice". That doesn't sound super consistent with planned murder but it does line up with heat of passion and panic.
First time I've ever felt the least bit of sympathy for the M Bros. The media really did a number on them back in the day.
... I mean, most of this information was pretty readily available and talked about
@@ReddFoxx1562but at that time, people didn’t face that men&boys could be victims of abuse as well. And in this new generation it’s much more talked about and acknowledged
@@Laylnizzlyeah, the prosecutor literally said men cant be raped. Pretty nasty
@@LaylnizzlVictims become murderers all the time. Still makes them murderers.
@@Lucasp110 extremely ignorant🤦🏽♀️
So...having lived with an overbearing parent past the age of 18, Eric was probably put under incredible mental pressure by his parents to sign that consent form
That's if he even knew what he was signing. I could picture it being just a simple "hey, now that your 18 we need you to sign these update forms." If it's not really explained to him coupled with dyslexia I'm sure he'd sign whatever was placed in front of him. Especially if he trusted the person handing them to him. If I'm being completely honest, I don't even read through the annual billing and HIPAA paperwork at my doctor's office each year. I just gloss over it and sign. If I was dyslexic I probably wouldn't even gloss over it, I'd just sign.
countless defense witnesses (including many family members) believe the brothers 100% and i think that says a lot.
Agreed 👍🏽
Their case was also a political game. The L.A. DA's office needed a win because they had lost 4 high profile cases, 1 being OJ. So their 2nd trial had alot to do with politics. They didn't get a fair 2nd trial.
It’s uncanny how many parents treat their children similar to this and expect them to grow up and be normal functioning adults
I thought I was going crazy when the episode went missing.
Last one ended abruptly in the middle of the story
Me too 😂 I was mid watching when it was taken down and thought I was losing my mind!
Me too, I was finally about to listen when it went unavailable and I was about to start throwing shh 😂
I thought I was crazy and imagined the video
Was confused when I was listening snd cut off suddenly. I thought youtube goofed, but the video cut early. Apparently with a missing hour! Thanks for the reupload!
As for the alleged writers in the basement shhhh 🤫 or you may be next.
It still irks me to no end that Saturday Night Live mocked the brother's testimony of their abuse...! They made a skit mocking s*xual abuse. They're absolutely disgusting.
Oh my god I did not know that
@@hannahp1108Me, either! It’s so disheartening to me to know how common it is for abuse victims to be criticized, not believed, etc.
@@hannahp1108 It was back in the day, but they still have the clip up on RUclips. They're horrible. It's John Malkovich and Rob Schneider as the Menéndez brothers, crying and whining about wanting a pee break and being bratty... It's so not what happened in court. They were crying their hearts out remembering what was done to them. That was super genuine. I still can't wrap my head around how they weren't believed. There's still people saying they were lying, even nowadays.
It's a joke dude. We all have a bit of dark humour. I make jokes about shit I don't believe all the time
@@asterope1604A little dark humor with friends is not the same as one of the most popular shows in the country mocking sexual abuse. Especially that those boys got LIFE IN PRISON because people didn't believe them. You are insanely out of touch to be able to believe these things are equivalent. Also, punching down _always_ makes you a shitty person.
I think this episode exemplifies the rule "Don't screw up your kids " More than any other CC so far .Such an incredibly dark ,strange and very,very disturbed family .Those boys were always going to be a mess in one way or another, despite all the privilege and opportunity .
Idk how anyone would think raising their children to be some of the most entitled assholes alive while also putting an insane amount of pressure on them would EVER end well
These boys were abused by their parents and then revictimized by the system
Imagine how many people were convicted because a judge didn't believe they were victims 😢
It seemed like more than this judge not believing them. Like he didn't care if it was true or not. The judges behaviour almost feels like he had an agenda from day one to see the brothers punished no matter what. Why? No idea but he made some very restrictive rulings and basically made it impossible, no matter what the defence put forward, for the brothers to get any type of mitigation.
As of Dec 1st 2023 they still have not gotten a retrial or reduced sentence. Their lawyer is working on it.
Thank you, I was hoping someone would mention it. I did some googling but couldn’t find anything recent
@@kailoveskittiesSame here. The one article I found gave a date in November that the decision needed to have been made by. Does that mean it won’t happen?
As of March 31st 2024, still no news on a new trial or resentencing
As of July 20th 2024, still no news on the retrial.
It is September 15th, 2024 and still no news
1:35 - Mid roll ads
2:50 - Back to the video
5:35 - Chapter 1 - Coming to america
12:50 - Chapter 2 - Hello kitty
21:25 - Chapter 3 - A meteoric rise
34:05 - Chapter 4 - Setting expectations
1:05:30 - Chapter 5 - A storm brewing
1:19:30 - Chapter 6 - The murders
1:28:55 - Chapter 7 - The spending spree
1:42:05 - Chapter 8 - A shocking confession
1:59:30 - Chapter 9 - Judge weisberg does everything twice
2:20:20 - Chapter 10 - A new challenger approaches
2:24:20 - Wrap up
Simon, it's nice to hear sweet anecdotes about your kids during intense CasCrim episodes.
Every time Simon talks about interactions with his wife and kids, it reminds me of the exact same thing happening with my wife and daughter.
Same, Im a stepmum who never thought I'd have kids so it gives me an extra lil happy glow when I can relate to Simon's parenting tangents. Theyre a nice break from all the murder!
"who'd've thought having kids would be so nice!"
1:38:00 is around the time the original video cut off if you want to start from that point
Thank you so much
You are awesome. Thanks!
You have saved my sanity - thank you.
Legend
Thanks so much for this
As someone who grew up around Princeton (and even knew people who went to Princeton Day School), I can assure you that rich, mediocre students are common at Princeton. There are many bright people too, but if you have the cash, gentleman C's are definitely a thing.
It’s pretty common in the US to have locks on the bedroom and bathroom doors in your home.
Odd. In the UK all bathrooms have locks but no bedrooms.
The house I grew up in had locks, but nobody used them. The house I'm living in now has no locks on the bedrooms.
Edit: US person here.
@@fainitesbarley2245Nope. All bathroom doors do not have locks on them. I have never lived in a house that had a lock on the bathroom door. Or bedrooms for that matter.
@@ruthrandall2451
Gosh. I’ve never come across one that didn’t!
I am from the USA and yes I have always had a lock on my bedroom door. I have always used it too. When I was a kid and now as an adult. It just feels safer. How many times do you hear that someone breaks into your house/apartment? It happens and a locked bedroom door is one more barrier. It might also keep an abuser out of your room at night.
I challenge anyone to listen to the testimony about the abuse and not believe that it happened. No one is that good an actor.
100%
Alan Dershowits writing a book called "The Abuse Excuse", when he was an attorney for OJ Simpson is just bizarre and ironic. Am I the only one? Or...?
God damn, that judge really did just. Completely fix the outcome in my very aggressive opinion. He just. Decided they weren’t allowed to use their defense at all. What the fuck. ‘Oh that last outcome was inconvenient let’s make sure that never happens again.’
100%, and not even the only one we have heard on this channel. But a very public trial was extremely biased by the judge recently, was joking around with the defendant, threw out a ton of the incriminating evidence, ect., and the guy walked.
It isn't like the judge just threw out the defense. In the American legal system the burden of proof for a claim of self defense is on the defense. The defense has to submit many pretrial motions and there are several hearings before the judge will allow someone to use self defense. There are 4 legal elements that have to be met. The third element is, "an objectively reasonable degree of force..." Lyle and Erik used pump action Mossberg 590's. Those hold 10 rounds plus one in the chamber. Not only did they use a total of 21 rounds on their parents, they left the room and reloaded firing possibly 21 more rounds. Reasonably degree of force was obliterated. Because self-defense wasn't in play neither could they use imperfect self-defense. Perhaps if they hadn't reloaded they could have used it, leaving, reloading, and returning negated it.
@@EmmaChihuahua81 There is some incorrect information. No version of the Mossberg 590 will hold 10+1 rounds. There is a model which will hold up to 9+1, but from trial photos, it is obvious that the shotguns used were the standard cylinder, which has a capacity of 6+1. Also, self defense laws vary wildly from state to state, and at the federal level. At the Federal level the burden is upon the prosecution to disprove self defense once it has been established by the defense (United States v. Thomas, 34 F.3d 44,47 (2d Cir. 1994).
@@KentBurgess If my information about the capacity was incorrect I apologize. I was under the impression they used the 10+1 model. However I do know the Mossberg 590 has a round rand from 6 to 20 rounds.
My statement about the burden of proof for self defense being on the defense was in regards to them even being able to use it as a viable defensive strategy during trial. The judge has the authority to tell the defense that they aren't allowed to use self-defense. So what I meant was the defense team has the burden of proof to prove to the judge that their client is entitled to use self-defense (or in this case imperfect self-defense). If the defense proves to the judge that their case meets the requirements then during the trial the burden of proof shifts back to the prosecution.
@@EmmaChihuahua81seems irrelevant though since the exact same judge allowed the exact same argument and evidence in the first trial but then decided to reject it in the second trial.
After watching this video, my entire opinion on this case has changed.. I was kid when this case was happening, but I remember hearing the adults around me saying “they didn’t believe the abuse allegations. As an adult I’ve seen a few documentaries on this case , and in 2023 I believe the brothers were abused.
Still guilty, but with severely extenuating circumstances that were not allowed in court.
Idk, Simon. Being born into wealth really gets you to places/opens doors that most people can't even dream of.
The majority of people (at least in the U.S.) have limited or no class mobility, and semi-recent studies have found that (again, at least in the USA) "being born wealthy is a stronger predictor of adult success in the U.S. than academic excellence."
I really hate that people think if they were girls they would have gotten acquitted. Girls and women go to prison for killing their abusers all the time, that's very common amongst women on death row.
Yeah :( it's kind of a false equivalency thing. Just like being rich actually made people hate the Menendez Bros more because they "had it easy"
Thats not really the same. They saying if they were girls ya wouldn’t have a hard time believing the abuse… they laughed at them. They made fun of them on tv. That would never happen to them if they were Jose’s daughters! Let’s be serious. If they Jose had naked pics of his daughters there would be no question about abuse! It would have been completely different if they were girls
Damn, I knew the video was long in the last upload, but having nearly an hour left in the story is insane.
Exactly!
Yup, there was a whole lot left out lol
Thank you for the re-upload!
I vaguely recall the trial from the 90s and I remember the media marking them as guilty little spoiled shits. Now I find myself hoping they do get a new trial.
I was a teen when this happened and completely believed Lyle and Eric were greedy psychopaths. I'm shocked to hear about how twisted and abusive Jose and Kitty were.
55:17 Simon, you are showing that you don't understand how promotion is guided by status. People in upper level management who were promoted didn't get there by hustling; they got there by cut throating
One more CasCrim tip: If you gain a big inheritance through nefarious means, do not show up to the funeral with one or more expensive, high end watches on your wrist.
Hahaha
1. Don't stunt at the funeral
2. At least try to look sad
But they were rich before. Has anyone ever studied their spending habits BEFORE the murder? Wikipedia says that family members claimed their spending habits didn't change.
The first trial had a a good portion of the defense case go into handling the spending. For example, their aunt Marta testified that the boys were shocked when she said they would get the money in the will (they were told in September of 1988 that they were out of it) and they knew their father didn’t have his insurance policy through work since he didn’t take the physical, and they didn’t know about the insurance policy Marta took out on Jose. Their uncle Carlos baralt who was the executor of the estate and testified that Jose told him in spring of 1989 that the brothers were out of the will. Many defense witnesses testified that the spending wasn’t that different and the boys looked to all these adults in their lives for permission or advice on what to do with their money. Even the Rolexes Lyle called Carlos in the store and asked if he and Erik could get them and if that would be a good idea. Their uncle Brian (kitty’s one brother and him and his other brother were the only family to testify for the prosecution) even suggested doing real estate stuff with Erik.
"it doesn't taste as green as it looks" That one is going to make me think for a few. 😁🤣
You know it's getting good when you get a "LET'S GO" from Simon.
Glad this one is back. I got half way, had to go about my day, came back and it was gone, was getting really interesting (never heard of this case) now to top up my coffee and pick up where I left off.
It's cute that Simon thinks the American dream is actually a thing. 😆
And even more so, that Americans believe in it. I think it’s primarily foreigners that believe in it, only to have those dreams crushed (at least in recent decades.)
I live alone in a big city and honestly I've noticed that upon suffering a great loss I might wind up wandering into buildings and shops I normally wouldn't if I was going about my normal day, and I have definitely bought cigarettes or weird things, and money and everything else loses its value for a few days. So a big potted plant might happen if my uncle dies for example
1:29:42 I learned so much about what grief was, when I saw my uncle smiling at his father's funeral. He looked into my eyes, smiled bigger than I'd ever seen it ever saw again, and burst into tears. So did I.
The nba player in the card is Mark Jackson, not Mark Johnson as whistleboy so proudly kept proclaiming 😂
45:29 Ah, they taught their son the lesson of "if you don't like something, you can just kill it". I'm sure that won't come back in any way in the future..
I have APD, and man, i can tell you that it is ROUGH in school. Especially back in the 90's when i went to school. I had quite a few teachers who didn't understand that it was a problem even when I had the paperwork saying I had it. It's almost like someone throws a blanket on your head and no matter how hard you try, nothing sticks. Talking with someone who elaborates a lot can be really hard too, since it really goes in one ear and out the other, and i can only grasp a little bit. Of course I married into a family that doesn't stop talking, but they repeat their stories enough for me to get an idea of what happened 😂. They are also lovely people and understand when i space out a bit. I have to rewind these videos many times sometimes and subtitles help greatly.
I actually also have dislexia, but since I've always enjoyed reading (I can actually remember what i read much better), i have much less difficulty with that. Numbers can be a nightmare though. And my spelling is atrocious, thank goodness for autocorrect. I think that I'm lucky with the dislexia, I know others who have it much worse. My biggest problem is not being able to express myself because I can't spell my large vocabulary.
For those who want to continue from the cut version, it was cut off at the 1:35:00 mark
I fucking love when the writers add pop culture things like the 001/001 The One Ring and Simon is just so confused.
We always say that murder isnt the answer, and that's of course true, but sometimes it might seem like the only option to somebody. For me, I can't help but feel that the following played a big role:
1.) Power imbalances are hard to break. For children it requires going into the adult world, finally being treated like an equal to others and having to navigate roadblocks for yourself. The Menendez brothers never experienced this. In particular, because they came from such a traditional wealthy family, they were moulded by expectations of protecting the family name and following in the family footsteps. Rich kids never seem to get to become fully autonomous individuals the way the rest of us do. Not unless they take a stand which probably results in them being cut off. (Yes, I know they're privileged too but it's not always without consequence.)
2.) They were never raised to take responsibility, to see others as equal, to know the value of money, to work for a living, or to understand how the real world works. So even if they could land a normal job, could they keep it? And could they afford to live off a normal wage?
I mean, I could be wrong. I grew up very poor, in very different circumstances, but it does seem to me that moving out and cutting family and financial ties may have felt impossible to them.
And this doesn't even touch on the abuse. As someone who experienced much milder physical and emotional abuse (not sexual), that was bad enough. I can't even imagine the fear, disgust, hate and stress these boys went though. They really were a tragedy waiting to happen.
Agreed. I didn't realise before this video exactly how their upbringing had stunted their development but holy crap. Their mother did their homework because she thought it was quicker and easier to help them with it? How was that supposed to help them long-term?
It's completely unfair that Jose and Kitty basically prevented them from learning necessary life skills but then blamed them for not being able to do stuff like get good grades. Of course they were failing everything: they had no idea how to study or work at anything!
@@haeronalda4136 completely agree! The parents are honestly so f*cking stupid for expecting the boys to excel when they taught them 0 life or academic skills. For so so many reasons, this is one of the worst examples of parenting I've ever heard of.
Thank you so much for reuploading!! Great job team CC! Simon, Kevin and Robert!! 😊
Opening a restaurant and paying $550,000 for it is the action of someone who's never worked in the restaurant industry. Especially in the 1980s with a limited bankroll. This is a great episode btw
This was one of the best episodes of CC yet, bravo Kevin for weaving such an engaging story.
As per usual great work by you and your team, Fact Boy. Even if the sexual assault allegations against the parents are false, it's probably fair to say the brothers had difficult, depressing lives despite their privileged upbringings. I feel like us normies trudging away in the middle and lower classes tend to look at the wealthy and think they must not have a care in the world. For me this case serves as a reminder that we never really know what hardships others may be dealing with
I remember thinking at the time (from my perch here in Australia), that there was something more to this than two kids just deciding one night to go murder mum and dad because they wanted the cash, there was something in those kids eyes, the way they sat or something.... I could never put my finger on it but now I hear of the molestation stuff, it's like BINGO!!! Yup there you go!
Frankly, considering the abuse, the stress the learning disabilities etc, I am surprised they both held out as long as they did. Hearing that Lyle found out that Jose was abusing Eric would have been just the catalyst to send them both over the edge and into that land of - we gotta do something because I can't live this way anymore....
In a weird way, knowing their father abused the other might have affected them deeply, not just cos their brother was being hurt, but because their father likely told them their warped relationship is "special".
Did I watch this episode all the way until it abruptly ended? Yes. Am I going to rewatch this reupload all the way through? Yes.
Enjoy the watch time Simon and crew
Does anyone give a shit? No.
on the spoiling the kids thing - my mother used to buy me new toys and ask me "and why are you getting these?" - and I replied "because i'm nice"
as long as I was a good kid with good grades, I'd get presents occasionally, and I still believe that's the best way you can parent your kid (granted you can afford the toys)
has practically nothing to do with the video but I just wanted to throw it out there.
The toys I got "just because" as a little kid were generally more precious to me since it wasn't obligatory...even the little random things from the 25 cent machine. Those were my tresures. Getting a quarter from your grandma and turning the crank, not sure exactly what you'd get was the best feeling lol 😊
Kevin, this video has shed a new light on the Menendez Brothers' case. In past videos I've watched about them, their family history was never discussed.
Another job well done, Mister Kevin!👍🏾👌🏾
'That reasonable doubt I had, has just expanded to regular ass doubt' AMÉN!
In case you wondering as of the day the video came out there still isn't anymore news on a new trial.
Yay full video! Great episode as always guys! To answer the question about college grades in the US - honestly the norm here is that grades for college students aren't given to the parents. Just like in Europe, US college tends to come with the belief that it's the place for young adults to learn self-sufficiency. My parents never saw mine or my siblings' college grades (and we all went to different colleges).
HOWEVER, with the student's permission, parents can request a college keep them in the loop about grades. Usually the cases I encountered that, the parents were the very controlling type that missed the whole "your kid needs to learn self-sufficiency" memo (though they usually used the argument of "i'm paying for it so it's my right to make sure they're living up to MY expectations" - which lots of unpack there). Can't say I've seen it lead to many happy parent-adult offspring relationships later down the line.
James Carvel, political advisor, once described Pennsylvania as "Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west with Alabama in the middle."
The judge clearly wanted to convict in the second trial and was probably angry about the first trial ending in a mistrial. The brothers at least deserve a new trial.
I've been tuning in for the last 3 years and can't recall seeing Simon have to reupload. The way the original stopped short left me feeling like getting to the last chapter of a good book to find the last chapter gone
I'm gonna keep posting this until it happens. Attempt #33. Please do an episode on Emmett Till.
This was eye opening. A new trial is needed
Shout out to Kevin the author and Jen the CC editor for that killer Mewtwo reference! Love these epic CC episodes
Hell yeah, now I can finish my sewing project 😂😂 I love learning about crime while I create cute stuff lmao
The Dr Fuji and MtG references were top-tier, Kevin.
Imagine all the millions and millions of kids that don't have private instructors and never even use their talent because their family's poor like mine. I couldn't go to college cuz we didn't have any money and I wasn't going to be burdened by loans for life
Jose Menendez's success shows how advantageous a little psychopathy can be to your corporate career.
0:32 Somebody get Simon a fresh coffee ☕
I remember seeing a Law and Order SVU episode based on this case and then researching it afterwards. It was horrifying but I was still totally on the fence as to whether or not they did it. Then other true crime podcasts etc always came down on the 'they were faking it' thing because that information at the end wasn't released yet. I definitely believe they were abused now, and I fully agree that if they'd been girls then the jury would've accepted the abuse angle. They suffered so much. I hope they're granted a retrial as that judge full-on railroaded that second trial to get the outcome he wanted. It's disgusting that he could force that much influence onto the jury.
And it is just so odd that the judge didn’t allow the abuse to be used as a defense. Shouldn’t the issue of abuse contributing to the murder be a question for the jury to decide?
My next door neighbors growing up had pretty much the same family dynamic except it was the dad who had empathy.
He was a successful doctor starting his own 20 associate practice, so he was a very busy man. He had to watch on helplessly as his sociopathic wife spoiled their two sons rotten, most likely twisting her stories of exceptionalism into an excuse for sexually abusing them. She eventually led them down the path of hard drug addiction and petty crime.
The doctor tried to kill his wife, but she survived. He gave up after that and killed himself.
I WILL FINALLY HAVE ANSWERS ABOUT THE BUFFALO WINGS RESTAURANT
Thanks Simon and Kevin! Good episode! Please do one on Darrell Brooks and Waukesha Christmas Parade Trial
You're welcome!
First case Ive ever learned about where I thought the perpetrators were both guilty and not guilty at the same time
Yay!!
Was waiting for the re-upload
02:14:53 Erik’s jury was actually 6 men and 6 women, it was split by gender lines. Lyle’s jury was 7 women and 5 men and it wasn’t split by gender lines. The second trial jury was 8 men and 4 women.
02:15:33 There was no ruling that testimony about SA would not be aired. The entire first trial was televised on Court TV . No ruling kept parts of the first trial from the public. There was a lot of media coverage about the trial and the public knew there was testimony of SA.
02:18:10 There is a mix up with this alleged statement by Lyle partly because of something the prosecutor said which misled the media. The prosecution couldn’t use a recording of Lyle saying he fooled half the jury simply because they couldn’t find it and the woman who supposedly had it later admitted she was paid by a reporter to lie. (there’s a NY Post article titled: “She Says He Dunne Her Wrong”) The lead detective seized her tapes but there was nothing on them they could use. Maybe it got mixed up in the media with a different tape prosecutors had from another woman Lyle was taking to at the time, which they would have used if Lyle took the stand. (The tape was Lyle talking about Dr. Oziel and how he would make up a meeting where Oziel essentially tried to blackmail him.) Prosecutors also had 2 letters which indicated Lyle might have tried to suborn perjury, one was admitted despite Lyle not taking the stand and the other one wasn’t.
02:18:50 The second trial jury was given the option to vote manslaughter for the murder of the father but not the mother.
Oh god it's actually 45 minutes longer than I thought
That's what she said
The redo made things crazy. I was on one side but now completely on the other
Thanks for the Re-up Simon and Co.
Must've been a Ballache
Thank you fact boy and team for the re-upload 🫡🫡
You're welcome!
I love when the writer keeps us up on mtg news in the scripts.
ME TOO ❤
@@kanakukgurl88
I enjoy forcing Simon to talk about nerdy shit he knows nothing about
I fell asleep watching this and couldn't find it to watch end. Thought I dreamt it!
Nope! It was just missing the last hour
He wasn’t a good businessman, he was a good short-term, tactical businessperson. No vision or long-term strategy for building something. There’s a difference. When his tactic-du-jour ran its course at a given company, not achieving anything for the organization, they let him go as he was not critical to anything.
Thanks for fixing the video! I wasted too much time at work today searching for the 2nd half.....
I rarely miss a CC episode when it first comes out. Was busy, but it worked out,for once!!! Have a great weekend. Take care and have fun!!! 😎😄😎
Simon, I have been a fan for as long as you have been doing casual crimianlist. I love, absolutely love, this new in-depth dive into these stories!
As a male s/a survivor i can say this men/boy can't be victims unfortunately still exists
It’s disgusting. Perpetrators can be any gender and so can victims.
@ardenalexa94 yes they can but unfortunately idiots exist in every Era
My dad was a survivor of chronic sexual abuse as a kid. When I, his daughter, was S/A’d as a child, it literally caused a mental breakdown for him. Male victims of sexual abuse do not get the care, respect, and understanding they deserve. If I may, PLEASE feel free to tell me to fuck off, but my dad had said group therapy specifically for men who survived S/A helped him, and he got to make friends who understood him. Whatever comes your way, I’ll pray the best for you! You deserve rest, peace, and justice if you want it. May many blessings come your way!
@HavianEla I'm in tears thank you so much I'm going to therapy now and it's been helping but sophomore year was hell I was actually shocked because girls would whisper and gossip about what happened but few of the guys were actually trying to help I thought it would be the other way around but it warms my heart to have people like you out here
@@Atinywithsocailanxiety I’m not a man but was abused as a teen. I’ve also talked to groups and see a counselor, a good counselor can help. I hope you are seeing one that’s helpful to you. For me, even though it’s not the same for me since I’m not a man, I find art helps me. A male friend said art and writing help him. He had been abused when he was little by a friends parent. I hope you find something that helps you heal in a healthy way.
Yay! The main feature! I just watched the LONGEST preview yesterday.
To speak to the divorce situation:
Having lived my entire life (at least that I remember) in a split custody divorce situation I can tell you that, I wouldn't have it another way because I have beautiful siblings that came from it that wouldn't have if there was no divorce. But it seriously takes a toll on the way you approach dating. If you know that you'd never want to leave your children (assuming you want them or have them) in the same situation you are in, you look at mitigating all things that could lead to that. It motivates you as a person to look long term as opposed to short term. It gives you the ability to slow down your life in a world that is actively trying to speed it up. That is a breath of fresh air, a sigh of relief, when you have tough days where your mentality can take a huge hit. Thinking about that, though romantic, is incredibly motivating and eye-opening to all the things that you've established as pillars and look to continue building on.
honestly my parents divorced early on in my life but I never remember angsting for them to get back together. I missed them desperately, but it was impressed on me that them together was an unsafe situation-- so much so my grandparents were intermediaries and did a lot of my raising. I've only seen them in the same room that I remember once in my life and I was still small, and it was weird honestly.
my take away was just not dragging my children through my relationship ups and downs by... not having kids. I still had too much baggage when I was young, I'd just have carried on the intergenerational trauma they were heirs to themselves. now, I might be better equipped, but I'm older and I might do more good fostering since I understand the struggle and how it can manifest in "bad" behavior and what might help.
I subscribe to the podcast, but wanted to thank you for the great job you did with the Jonestown and Menendez cases.
Now we all know that Simon thinks about cake while reading scripts. Lol
🎂
Great ep as ever! Can I just ask a dense question? Were we ever given a reason for why Kitty was scared of her sons and locked her bedroom? I might have missed that detail in this epic long episode 😅
I don't think we were ever given an explanation.
Well the thing was is that everyone in that house was locking doors. It wasn’t just kitty. So it’s not like only kitty did it because she was scared of them.
@@horrorhistory7342 Except it is stated that Kitty started to do so all of a sudden. And following something she’d learned from one of their counselling sessions.
So I do think it’s rather relevant and not a dense question at all. It’s unfortunate that Simon/Kevin overlooked this detail.
This is where a follow-up Q&A would be quite beneficial I think. Simon could do a livestream where viewers raise points that were either missed in the narration or by the police/courts.
Considering what they admittedly did, I imagine she picked up on something being wrong. Her two little boys were now fully grown men and she'd been (allegedly) abusing them all their lives. It wouldn't take much to realize her control over them might be slipping and to become scared of their retaliation.
Here’s me thinking that someone watched too many casual criminalists and decided to do the ultimate heist and stole half of this video.
Fantastic job as usual Sir.
Anyone returning to finish the vid, the previous upload cut off at around 1:38:00