What are "boundaries"? (Glossary of Narcissistic Relationships)
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2020
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Narcissist don't teach their children boundaries. They teach their children fear. I am the youngest in the family. I had to fear and obey everyone. Now I am learning to set boundaries for me and that meant going no contact. Theses relationships in life are unhealthy. I only want healthy relationships now. We deserve to be respected!
Exactly. My whole childhood was about the fear of my father's rage that any banal detail could ignite any minute. I grew up to be fearful of people and very difficult to make relationships as I have a deeply buried but very existing fear of men.
Totally get this
So true! Being raised by narcissists, I'm in my 30's and still feel that fear in regards to my parents. Becoming a parent myself has completely opened my eyes to the toxicity of my family dynamic, and I'm determined to end the cycle of abuse. I have *finally* found the courage to tell my mother what I am no longer willing to tolerate, and she has discarded me. I have grieved the loss of the relationship that I *wanted* with her/them, and I'm determined to be the mother that I needed, for my own kids.
Stay strong!
Exactly the reason I never set boundaries...bc I never knew they existed. I've been told what to be my whole life...literally. So how can anyone have a healthy relationship when they never saw one growing up?
@@michellehoward5318 as of my experience, you have to educate youself about narcissistic behavior and abuse to be able to understand in complexity the signs and mechanism, and also about what would be healthy in a relationship. For example I search on youtube and on the internet for 'healthy relationship' and 'what can be expected in a relationship' and the like.
Also some tecniques supporting emotional release can be great, if you like this kind of stuff. EFT for example (Emotional Freedom Techniques) is one that helped me a lot.
And remember, you deserve love and acceptance and you can be kind to yourself even if your family haven't been. There was a time when I actually couldn't imagine I would say this, but it really is possible to feel and live it.
It's almost impossible to have boundaries with a narcissist because they make you feel guilty for having them. Everything has to revolve around them.
If its not them,nothing else
Very True. It took me nearly 30 years to realize this. Now being recently divorced I don't give a damn anymore. I was so needy and dependent while being with my ex so his crossing boundaries was overlooked. I walked on eggshells just to appease the narcissist and he made sure it stayed that way. We have been divorced for 4 months now after 32 years of marriage with about 10 of the last years sleeping in separate rooms. I'd been fed up with his tactics but I stayed for my kids back then which was a huge mistake. Narcissist doesn't love their children and don't respect them either. They're entitled and self loathing vampires that's sucks everybody's energy including their kids.
Barb H1717 They think of their children as possessions, not people. ...and heaven forbid that the children have opinions of their own.
@@LibraLove1717-us8qp I wish you all the peace and happiness
They are terrors, aren't they?
Narcissists don’t understand the meaning of “no”. To them, it just means to push harder until you cave in. If they really want to do something, they’ll do it, regardless of how you feel. When you call them out on their behavior, they’ll only get mad at you. Suddenly, you’re the bad guy. It’s almost impossible to set boundaries with narcissists.
Ditto my experiences, Naseem. And all this while I thought I'm not expressing/ explaining myself to the narc clearly.
A I It doesn’t matter what words you use or how kind you are when you try to set your boundaries ; they just refuse to listen. The worst part is they take any act of kindness as weakness. If you’re too kind, they’ll take advantage of you. It’s a hard lesson to learn, especially when you simply can’t understand how someone can be so cruel. I kept doing nice things for my narcissistic ex. I always gave him the benefit of the doubt, telling myself that he didn’t mean to be hurtful. He took that as meaning he could get away with anything, and the abuse got worse. It’s hard to accept that someone you love so deeply doesn’t respect you. The best thing you can do is go no contact and move on with your life.
Naseem Motamed Thank you for sharing eloquently inspiring words. It’s painful for me currently but your words and encouragement are supportive.
Yeah but you can’t regulate someone’s behavior unless it’s malignant bad behaviors. I see people do it on social media all the time. “Don’t say that on my page.” Society is also becoming ridiculous in how it wants to police everyone. So I you have to be reasonable here. She is talking abusive banter or power play situations, not just I don’t appreciate your politics or feelings on such and such topic.
@@mikeflair6800 Your comment is as wonderfully accurate as Dr. Ramani is helpful.
Learning to set boundaries in adulthood is such a process. Especially after a traumatic childhood when nothing I was, did, owned or said was valued. Congrats to those who figured it out early enough to live well.
I used to tell my narc ex that “if he did something one more time, I’m done. “. He didn’t believe me. Walking away is the best way with them. You can’t change them.
People who take up large units of your time, calling/texting at inappropriate times, don’t care about interrupting or inconveniencing you, drain your emotional energy, push for more than your comfortable with, asking nosy questions, and using up other resources. There is no reciprocity here at all. It’s all about them. When you feel invalidated, stepped on, and not valued, this is a big clue. Your videos are wonderful!!
They're like; "Spank me, Spank me!"
So true! There's no space for 2 people in a relationship in such a situation. Its all about them
Your msg reminded me of a neighbor I had to cut ties with in the new year. She would pout if I couldn`t see her straight away when she rang (she put the phone down on me a few times) and was always putting me on a guilt trip for not spending enough time with her... I told her that I didn`t like gossip, but she would gossip about others every time she saw me... I also told her that I didn`t like small talk... but she would continue to do it... the relationship was so draining, I felt guilty all the time... I had to cut communication and go cold turkey.. its awkward though coz she lives opposite me...
Ghh
The best solution I discovered for boundaries and narcissists was what you said about setting boundaries for ourselves about the narcissist. My boundary for myself is the first time a narcissist ignores my boundary I leave, go grey rock and ignore them. They’re guaranteed to step on a boundary so it gives me a specific and concrete way to enforce my boundary. I’ve blocked siblings, left jobs and fired clients with glee, realizing that each time i do i’m honoring myself. Narcissists are losers and pricks and like all rotting garbage need to be thrown out of our lives.
27:00
"The most powerful boundary you have is to simply not engage with someone who is not good for you."
"The concept of setting boundaries feels foreign". That is exactly how it feels when you are raised by a narcissist parent. I can't tell you how much abuse I tolerated as an adult because I had no idea that setting boundaries was a God given right. There is a great book out there by Dr. Charles L. Whitfield called "Boundaries and Relationships". I would recommend it to anyone who was raised by a narcissist.
J C. you are so right on. My father was a malignant narcissist who trampled on all of my boundaries and repeatedly humiliated me. I went out into the world having already accepted that anyone could do what they wanted to me, and get away with it. In this way, narcissistic parents keep their terrible legacy going, even long after they are dead. Narcissists have made free at my expense, but not anymore. They can still smell me, but they can't get close enough to sink their teeth.
Added this to my reading list - Thank you
Also added to my reading list. I’m still unclear on boundaries
I have been teaching these concepts for awhile. Its been very useful to me to go on this journey and provide them guidelines I also came from a childhood where conventional boundaries were constantly violated so learning what they are has been a lot of work and I still have to work on it. I will look for the book you suggested, I have one of his on the inner child that I liked. TY.
Thank you so much for the book recommendation!
"Telling you to set boundaries with a narcissist is like throwing you into a cage with a tiger!" (00:11:42 - 00:11:49) This is the concept that people who haven't live this reality can not understand.
I 100% agree.
Learning to set boundaries was one of my major lessons to learn in life. My brother helped me first learn about this when he set a boundary with our mother. Our mother had continued to treat my brother's wife poorly so he said to our mother, "Don't make me choose between you and my wife, because you will not like who I choose." I was stunned since, of course, I did not have the same skill in boundaries. That experience was the beginning of a big learning curve for me. It opened my eyes to the concept that I mattered and I could expect to be treated well.
In my 20s I had a narcissist boyfriend who used to hug me painfully hard; not a bear hug, more like crushing cobra squeeze. I complained. His response? 'You need to relax." When we were courting his idea of a date was to call me after he finished work - 11 pm, or later, and invite himself to my place. Years later I realized I wasn't making mistakes at work because I was so in love - it was sleep deprivation! The best part of that relationship is that it lasted less than two years, but he did wound me at the soul level. I learned never to tolerate that behavior again. Whenever I got the familiar knot in my gut while on a date, I'd drop the guy like a hot coal.
Very good trigger point......feelings in our bodies are always absolute! I’m finally learning to listen & act on them.....better late than never🙂
Amy, my heart goes out to you for those two years of your young life with your narcissist boyfriend, but good for you for now seizing full control! But be careful. While now watching Dr. Ramani, previously I had joined the website Aftermath-Surviving-Psychopathy.org, which I feel saved my life. After making a personal statement on the site's "Forum," where members talks about their circumstances, one of the original eight Ph.D. founders wrote me a personal letter saying that people with personality disorders, in addition to hurting you so deeply there are no words in the language to describe it, can, in fact, be dangerous. Be careful how you drop some guy "like a hot coal." Better to make up a great excuse for ending things so you don't have to move out of state -- because people with these disorders don't like to be "found out"! I strongly suggest you watch Dr. Ramani's terrific video which talks about the differences between narcissism, psychopathy, and sociopathy -- and perhaps even visit that website.
I got the same uneasy feeling with my last narc. I didn’t understand what it was, but I just knew something was off. I ended the relationship after a devaluation and discard episode with him. He came back a month later like nothing happened and I bend my ground and told him remember you told me it was over. He shrugged me off and said he never said that. I then pulled out the text message. He was happy with that. He call every so often asking to come visit me- I kept saying no. I finally blocked him.
@Anita: Cobras are not constrictor snakes. They use poison to kill prey.
That is really interesting. My narc husband started hugging me like that towards the end, when I started setting boundaries. He was not having it and started love-bombing/hoovering me and started hugging like that. I started squeezing back harder and it was so awkward...🥴😂. Who is gonna let go first?!? I know what's up dude. He also wouldn't walk into a room first, no matter what. Awkward!!
A week later he raged out in a horrific domestic violence incident and it is done. Now picking up the pieces and owning my part as a codependent enabler.
I LOVE setting boundaries NOW! It brings so much strength. Put your foot down 🦶
Thanks for the peptalk Mitia 🙏
Yes. So true. And people respect you more. Because you respect yourself.
@@marijakatic5539 so true.. I'm still learning 😏
I want this magic power 😜seriously your energy is amazing I aspire to this level ✨
Just choose you! Love yourself more. Love God more too. People are individuals. Co-dependency & enabling no boundaries in your life is a slow stagnant death. LIVE
The narcissist figures out your boundaries and makes it a point to step all over them, makes them happy.
This is a great channel. Wish it had existed 10 years ago - would have prevented a lot of suffering
Wish I had it 30 years ao but it is so helpful in my "Right Now" time!!! Thank you!!!!
Assume that setting boundaries with a narcissist will immediately and constantly put you into conflict. The alternatives are ending the relationship, or accepting that it will be a superficial relationship with NO chance to get your needs met and constantly managing/monitoring every interaction for psychological or even physical abuse. Learning to manage a narcissist is like tiger taming. It can be done but it is a thankless job. Find another job or another romance. Today. Grieve and move on.
Cathy - I cannot believe that your truthful comment brought me to tears from this reality check. Oddly, I am grateful that you did comment.
🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿yes Cathy!! Grieve and move on!!
Cathy you are 100% right 🤍
It's 100 Percent correct, for I have to do this exact same thing again and again, with my father.. ....
Well said! Amen.
I distinctly remember my ex- getting upset because I refused to use my mother's handicap sticker to park in a handicap spot. We were driving my mother's car. But she wasn't in the car. And we are both young and healthy. And then his unregulated emotions kicked in. RAGE (beyond rage), tantrum in front of the mall parking lot because I refused to take a handicap spot from someone, who actually NEEDED the spot. He kept screaming: "YOU HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK!" I am just now understanding how deep that statement is. On a different occasion he once had such a rage-filled tantrum in public that people started asking me if I needed help and did I feel safe.
Having narcissistic parents, I had zero boundaries as a child and as an adult - nothing changed. Dr Ramani is right when she says you will not be able to change them. Thank you Dr Ramani for a great video.
My mom used to say, we’re family, we don’t need boundaries! It took me a long time to learn to put these up. We were always shamed if we tried to have a boundary.
@@maggiemay8622 I agree
A boundary defines what YOU will or won’t do; not making demands of others.
So true
Well said. I certainly heard a lot of demands on me, my time, his expectations and entitlements that he liked to call boundaries. For example he said when and where I can ontact my friends violated his boundaries! Really?! My response was what does my time with family and friends have to do with you?! Is really about him just wanting to usurp every ounce of my time energy and resources so there's nothing left for me or the activities and people I found important.
True and not true for me as I actually demand that others respect my boundries though. I'm not their mother or babysitter and I'm not beyond letting said person hear exactly what I think of them and their actions to their face when they show blatant disrespect of my boundries. Boundries they themselves would feel just as violated if anyone were to cross.
The issue for me is, however, that most narcissists I've come across DO have their own agenda as they clearly decide to bait you with a consistant row of cheap shots.
They know they're cheap shots and they are very much aware of the whole set up they put together for you. It's DELIBERATE AND INTENDED to bait YOU.
Meaning: they anticipate a certain immediate response from you. It's incredibly difficult to nail them because 9/10 they've covered their 🍑 by weaseling themselves into a "friendship" with whoever has the upper hand. So regardless of what you say and how often you report them, there's literally nothing you can do about it at that moment AND you might run the risk that it backfires against you due to the lies/twisted truths that they've already spread about you(that has happened to me).
It really becomes a kind of extremely primitive cat and mouse game so the best thing for me to do after personal confrontation and showing claws, is to just understand how these games work for them and take back your power 100%. But I do feel that "going off" (as it were) and demanding FROM THEM they respect your boundries and/or completely grey rocking, is one of the best methods to get them to atleast think 3× (maybe more) before they attempt the same bs with you again. At the end of the day, THEY are cowards and will do anything to defend their status as one.
You think a boundary could be, don't hang out with a lot male coworkers? Or you think it's narcissist?
-Don't have like dates one on one with male coworkers
YES! Resist your inclination to "engage in idle banter with them." Always remember you are not dealing with a normal person. Genial attempts to interact are never worth the effort, and nearly always result in disaster.
Pleasant conversation has no appeal for them.
I went no contact with my Narc biological father and his wife after they got offended that I used the word boundaries. Three months later my husband ended up in the ICU in a medically induced coma after a head injury; they sent their son to the ICU waiting room to intimidate me and make me feel bad for maintaining no contact. This reinforced that no contact was the right choice. I'm now in therapy working through 30 years of emotional abuse.
I was married to a Narc for over 20 years. I left him when I worked out that I had to, from complete mental breakdown and ended up in a Psychiatric hospital for depressive psychosis. I have been out of the relationship now for five years but I am still recovering from psychological abuse and just recently suffered from PTSD from memories of the abuse during the marriage. I still have to endure him, but now I have put in boundaries, strict ones too, and keep contact to an absolute minimum - our child only, and by text - not talk!
Stick with it, you will grow and level up in life. Hugs
Wow! Attacking you at your weakest! Nice people :(
Dr. Ramani can you do a deeper dive into how to create good boundaries geared towards people that grew up in a narcissistic/co-dependent household? What does a normal relationship look like? How do you know when you are taking too much responsibility for other people’s lives and feelings? Etc.
No boundaries. Growing up, it was a free for all. Five people sharing one bathroom, anyone barging in at any given time. No locks on any doors. Closing doors forbidden. Guilt and shame our emotional currency. Riddled with sexual, physical, and emotional abuse. Never understanding boundaries, let alone equipped with tools to set and enforce them, I experienced it all over and over again with abusive partners, friends, and bosses. Thank you Doctor Ramani, for teaching me to say NO to abuse and YES to myself!
I just love when you say step away because all our lives in our cultures we are taught stepping away is weakness.
...when its in truth evidence of strength, of letting go, of wisdom.
Such a powerful point of awareness you highlighted. It sung to me.
Thank you.
Keep in mind grey rocking for a long time can actually sort of damage you by making you start to act flat at all times.
Some of us grew up with overbearing power tripping parents who consistently broke our boundaries through years of conditioning. Now as adults we have to delete that old programming and upload Self Care reprogramming to establish and maintain strong 💪🏼 boundaries. Requires Awareness, consistency and effort but it’s so worth it 👍😎
Healthy self esteem is the key in all your dealings with narcissists. Healthy self esteem is both a function of boundaries and a result of boundaries. Don't let anyone crap all over you!!
This is so important with narcs because in their head they're gonna pretend like they are doing nothing wrong and that you're cool with it. LIKE NO , WE ARENT COOL CRAZY
LIARS ARE IN ,(**ST.CHARLES, GROUP HOME CALLED SUNSHINE HOME CARE 👺
That's the crazy making part for me too ugh
I tried setting boundaries many times. When they kept being violated, it was clear that wasn’t working. It’s like they think we’re crazy for wanting to be treated like a human being.
"When it comes down to it, they are limit-testing children who always try to stay up one minute later than bedtime." This made me laugh because it's so true!!
I'm 54. I had never heard of boundaries until 5 years ago. I came across the concept watching Super Soul Sunday and, at, first, it made no sense whatsoever. Hard to believe, isn't it? Thank you for your wonderful videos.
@Tewdy Quew Me too! I know your experience well. You said this very well. I wish you much happiness moving forward and it is worth the work! Thank you for sharing.
Me too. Most things I have not heard of (psychological things) until I found RUclips. Thank goodness!
I confused control with boundaries. I can't believe that by setting boundaries I have finally found freedom! Boundaries ... the final frontier!
Me too! All the needless crap I’ve been through.... I’ve done a lot of self work.... 🤞😌
During the pandemic I have been rewatching supersoul Sunday.
Best not to negotiate with them. Best not to even associate with them. Whatever is going on, I can feel it in my body.
One can't "negotiate" with them. They don't respect any voice not their own. There is no resolving anything with them. They are a dead-end, there's only one way in and one way out, like the Dead Sea.
FINALLY!! MY ENTIRE LIFE I HAVE SUFFERED BECAUSE NO ONE HAS CLEARLY DEFINED THEM!!
Thank you with so much love. You are saving people.
Jules FitMinute l so agree
Boundaries means respect. That’s not part of a Narc’s agenda, unless it applies to them. They expect their boundaries to be honoured while they are entitled to violate everyone else’s. My Narc had a whole list of them. Living with them feels like being trapped in a senseless lockdown. They take away even our basic rights. I was fearful of the confrontation and rage, if the Narc was denied access. So I kept making excuses for him till I lost perspective of rights and wrongs. I was already mentally conditioned not to question, so succumbing was easier than challenging him. Thankfully, I have snapped out of that toxic spell. It’s boundaries all the way now, even if it means getting the law involved.
my ex was the same. his boundaries are super non negotiable. nobody can disturb his autonomy and if its time for bed or shower, he will never give you 1 second more of his time. this means if you're having a fight he will leave you high & dry.
Narcs are very self-centered and egotistical. To hell with everyone else. They are so draining
@@matchalatte4101 sounds like a narc, they are very rigid
Yes‼️ love this💯💯
It's exactly my condition right now, even today just remembering the pain I felt and I don't even wanna remember those hard days, my grandfather helped me set boundaries with him, but it's still not so clear that these boundaries will remain forever because I'm just 15.....
Part of the trouble is not wanting to set boundaries due to the unexpected response; which will invariably involve conflict.
The Narc kicks sand in your face, but pretends it's an accident.
"Hey, please don't do that, as sand is being kicked in my face."
Then you get a 3000 word response telling you why you're all to blame, which you have to read through to see if there is anything you need to respond to. And then they start doing it more.
I think that sometimes we overestimate the "need to respond". It's our life, our time, our energy, we don't owe any attention or explanation to someone who just kicked sand in our face. I agree with another comment that basically said don't forget to set a boundary on your TIME. Sane people, even if they don't understand or disagree with your choices regarding boundaries, will still respect them, it won't take hours to explain or argue over. If they give you a 3000 words speech instead, it's their loss, you do not need to address every single sophism they throw at you. It's likely nothing you can say will really hit home anyway, they'll twist it and use it against you instead. They're just taking your time, your attention, your energy. As much as possible, avoid engaging this behaviour.
Yeah, that’s how they grind you down. Run, don’t walk away from those people. Don’t need to give any explanation. (Because then you get the 9,000 word crazy thing that THE BETTER THEY KNOW YOU will be exactly tailored to keeping you with them.)
I’m 28 and I didn’t realize until I was about 24 that I was being taken advantage of because in my mind my servitude made my friends, family and coworkers happy and when people are happy then there’s no confrontation. When I started setting boundaries and saying “no” and living my life for me and not to please others... that’s when I turned into a “b___h”, when I finally fought back they made me feel like I was crazy and that I wasn’t being “myself” or whatever word they’d think of to make me feel bad and coware. Needless to say, the only people I need in my life are still here.
Love your channel, by the way! I wish you lived in Louisville!!!
Wow. Sweet Lee. That's what is happening to me now. It took a long tine, but I have a voice now. And I feel more set free than ever. So I started using my voice. Wouldn't you know, the brother a year older than me told me the whole family of siblings say that I have severe mental issues, he says the whole family talks, and that it's okay to talk about another. Hmm. Rules were put on me to not do so.
I am the youngest of 5. One is a sister 5 yrs older than me. The oldest, a brother, doesn't get involved in anyone's schemes. We more or less see things similarly.
My year older brother gaslighted me so terribly, but I could see very clearly. It's when my other brother who said he is going to help me get away from my husband because he understands narcissism is what is going on, I shared with him what is going on with the younger brother, it's when the helping brother worded his response in such a way that brought back the VERY painful memories of feeling like I am not even part of the family, left out. In this context it was VERY painful.
I was in that much pain, and felt the scrutiny of it being "proof" I have severe mental issues because of the severe pain I was now feeling. The hope and healing I was experiencing that this brother had entered my life..unferstanding narcissism, yet he could not hear me that my yr older sibling was gaslighting and invalidating me like crazy. ........this terrible twist.
Dr Ramani, thankyou so much for your words of truth and encouragement.
That was empowering. thank you.
Whenever i stood up for myself n even faught at places when it should be asserted those ppl left me and began smear campaign and began triangulating and isolating me and tht gave me an impression of abandonment and made me submissive to their abuse,being taken advantage of tht i m not good enough n tht i have to improve myself.literally lost myself.Living
Yup, the ole "you've changed". Thanks
If someone calls you a b--, then take it as a sign that you’re on the right track. Seriously!
Right! I've been told I'm not the person he married. I don't react anymore, so he sought out other women for validation.
De. Ramani, I love how you always say "we need to" instead of "you need to" :) This means a LOT to me. Thank you😘 ..sending you all my love and light 💛🌟
Agreed. It is teamwork to counteract narcissistic abuse. When they isolate us we feel alone.
My family of origin is narcs and other toxic people and I was afraid of setting boundaries until I was 47. No more of that shit. I have found my moral courage. I don’t have to convince anyone or to meet their approval.
Amen ! We will never have to ask 'permission' to Protect ourselves again !
This is a perfect video with pandemic because narcs are irritated because they have to follow rules too.
This is all so true. And the flip is you beat yourself up when you don't set boundaries with narcissists. Going through over and over, "I should have done this! I should have said that! Why didn't speak up?!"
Facts
My past r.s.. boy it is something.
“Do NOT engage with someone who is NOT good for you!” I find that talking to a narcissist about boundaries is a waste of time and energy. NO CONTACT IS THE ONLY WAY OUT! Thank you Dr. Ramani for these great videos! 🙏
True
I would rather slam my head in my car door, repeatedly, and the set myself on fire than ever waste 1 more breath on the person who NEVER cared what I said when we were together. And now I'm freeeeeee!!! Victorious!
I realised how unbalanced I always felt after any interaction.
This is GREAT advice......simple & true... why do we keep engaging with people who are not good for us⁉️⁉️
And a narc will use that line against you when you try to enforce a boundary. My narc sister said she doesn't contact me (she discarded me) because I don't make her feel good about herself. I called her out on her lies and the lousy way she treated me, and then I get accused of treating HER poorly.
You are doing such a noble service by sharing your expertise for free on this platform. I genuinely can’t thank you enough 🙏
My ex wanted to know something about my sex life that I was uncomfortable addressing at such an early stage. The first time he asked, I told him firmly but kindly that I would prefer not to talk about it at this point. The second time he asked, later that day, I responded even more firmly.
He asked again a few days later. At that point, I got a little angry. Of course he acted surprised and pretended like he had no idea why I was upset.
Only hours later, when I was feeling very vulnerable and my emotional reserves were depleted (Christmas at his family's house with about 100 screaming children), he came into the room and we lay down together. I asked him a few silly questions like I do ("Would you rather have an arm cut off or be eaten by a shark?" or "Would you still date me if I didn't have a face?") just to kind of get grounded with him. And then I made the mistake of encouraging him to ask me a question.
Of COURSE he asked me the question he had just asked a few hours prior that had just made me incredibly uncomfortable, and which had made me a little angry.
I lost it. Of course we got into a huge fight, which (of course) ended up being about my reaction, rather than his refusal to respect my boundaries.
If you tell someone not to go there, and they go there anyway, BOY BYE.
"could you please stop putting your hands around my throat, I don't like it" true story, he never stopped but denied it!
22:38 “They are poorly regulated and impulsive. So they will often violate a boundary, do what they want, to help them regulate their negative mood state at a given time. Their poor self-reflective capacity means that they’re not able to take a moment to think about how their actions or words are impacting other people.”
Wow! This hit home.
We tend to think setting boundaries is like saying, "You can't treat me that way anymore." It isn't. Healthy boundaries are for us, ourselves. What i choose to be around, or let anywhere near me. Boundary-making is so i can know when someone has crossed the line, & then leave. It's about what i am no longer willing to tolerate in my own space & experience. It is knowing where you stand. What i will, & will not, tolerate. There is no fight. Lily Tomlin, on a talk show, when another guest referred to women in a derogatory way. she stood up, said, "I can't be here." And walked off the set. That is a perfect example of healthy boundaries we set for ourselves. She did not fight with him. She did embarrass him publicly, however.
Trying to have a boundary with a narcissist is a nightmare. They see them as a dare or a challenge.
This was a long one but very helpful. Sadly, many of us have experienced childhood trauma that made us lack boundaries. In my own case, it was trauma, a poor environment and a codependent mother, with vulnerable narcissist tendencies. I grew up not know what I want and feeling guilty when I did ask for it. Smh. This is why I don’t have children. I never wanted to pass anything damaging on.
I can totally relate. Not knowing what I want and having fear to ask for things I needed or even share anything about my feelings beacuse they would be a ridiculized or getting bullied was everyday issue in my childhood. But I still believe I can have a healthy family and children because I've done so much work to recognize and change my patterns. It is awfully hard but possible!
Same
Same ....
I was so scared of my mother growing up..... she was scary, obviously couldn’t stand me or my brother.....
I can definitely understand not wanting children, I also had an abusive childhood. I will say that having children (as incredibly difficult as it is) has given me a chance to re-frame what it should have been. I'm definitely not trying to tell you to have children, I'm saying it is possible to change the legacy if you choose to. I was much older when I finally did want children but not having them is definitely ok too.
Thank you for this video. So many other sources that talk about narcissists say “you need to set boundaries,” as if it is that easy. When you said “it’s like throwing you in a cage with a tiger” I started crying because finally someone gets it.
This video came at the perfect time. I’m learning to set boundaries with my mother something no one in my family has ever done and it’s slightly scary. Culturally speaking boundaries for my family are viewed as contemptuous. So this will be interesting
Planting Ivy Mine too, everyone in my family kept saying "Oh she's just mum, put up with it". Haven't spoken to my mum in a year, and it was so hard. But I haven't been happier. The more you cut out narcissists from your life, the more you can breathe. I've never thrived so much in my life and I hope you can too. Don't give in, your body knows when somethings not good for you, trust it 💕
Dead Islander I’m so happy for you. I tried going LC with her and haven’t called since March 30th because I felt the communication was one sided. It’s been difficult but I know these are the pruning phases that will get easier with time.
Same. In my culture it is normal for adult kids to be told what to do by their parents. Not all of them are narc parents but if so it is lot harder. It is so much in the culture, when we took family therapy my parents were able to trick the therapist into that they simply ask something from me very politely but I am too rebellious to hear them. I saw many therapists, only 2 of them listened me on this topic. This type of abuse is totally hidden in some cultures.
Good for you! I started having boundaries last year. One thing I remind myself is love is not control. Look at yourself as if you were looking at another person- you deserve boundaries, respect, and happiness. You can't make a narcissist happy. In my experience they just keep "dangling the carrot" further and further, because their goal is continued control. Maybe you can help pave the way for others in your family, but it will not happen overnight- watch Dr. Ramani's videos on flying monkeys if you haven't- other family members are likely to defend her and tell you to obey her, that you're overreacting, ect. because they have always justified the narcissist's behavior to themselves. It's better to not try to explain yourself, because they are just looking for ways to get around your explanation. Just say, this is what I want, that's it.
Standing in solidarity with you as you approach this!
These series of videos are like daily vitamins for me. It nourishes and supports me thru this journey. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani!
I said the same thing!!! Dr Ramani is like a booster shot against narcissists
Excellent video, Dr. Ramani! I found that trying to enforce my personal boundaries often resulted in my narcissistic husband portraying himself as the "victim" (major gaslighting). After 24 years together, I am in the process of divorcing him. I didn’t realize he was a narcissist until after we separated, and your videos have been instrumental in understanding everything I need to know about narcissism. Thank you so much.
Myrna McKee,You look stunning 🌹🌷🌹,hope you are not with a narc 😈!
When Narcissists, Sociopaths and Cluster B's get angry or they sulk or they play victim what they are doing is trying to enlist you and make you responsible for regulating their emotions. When dealing with Cluster B's it is best to treat everything they are saying like it is a lie and yet another attempt at manipulation and gaslighting. As a case study example, I highly recommend studying up on the example of the convicted murderer sociopath Jodi Arias.
Very accurate description. My ex is most likely bpd, and a lot of these things were relevant. I was played out to be the blame for her not regulating her emotions at times. I was constantly being gaslight by her. Her stories and answers changed regularly, to the point I don’t know what was the truth or a lie anymore.
13:20 "So this dynamic is particularly prevalent in family systems in which a parent does not honor boundaries because as a child it is all but impossible to enforce boundaries with the parent. And this is a theme that is observed in what we often traditionally term more codependent family systems. These family systems are governed by fear of the narcissists reaction, fear of the narcissists anger and fear that the narcissist will devalue and discard them. In this way the narcissists do a great job of weaponizing boundaries. They pathologize you, they make you, they paint you as being crazy for wanting them. And they foster fear through their anger and their reactivity which results in even a lower likelihood that people will consistently set boundaries. And then it can escalate the overall trauma bonding of the narcissistic relationship systems whereby people defend and enable so they can avoid having to dismantle."
This is my experience growing up, as is unfortunately probably many others here. My family has been and continues to be slowly annihilated.
disappearing remedy, I jotted down this exact section! Anything our N.parent didn’t feel like doing, any way we could be used to give them admiration and praise, even her entertainment was built in to our role as a child both then and even now. I was slowly “trained” to be responsible for moods, whims, and behaving like a cheerleader for the N. Shaming, twisting the meaning of the commandment to Honor your mother and father, and the phrase “ Too bad, you’re doing it!”, taught me that setting healthy boundaries was disrespectful, selfish, and the leash was pulled even tighter.
Very well said.@@suzannesmith5339 To add insult to injury, proof of perpetuated insanity by lifelong manipulation as a pawn, at the hands of the narcopath is the repeated births that occurred in our dysfunctional group. More narcissist soldiers=more pain, confusion, health problems, cognitive dissonance, chronic complex post traumatic stress response, years of hard work & recovery (if you survive) etc. . . Which in turn has created within my family dynamic the damaging, unbroken cycle of generational trauma. :-(
Idk about you but I've consciously (better late than never) chosen to stop the cycle here!💙
@disappearing remedy, "These family systems are governed by fear of the narcissists reaction, fear of the narcissists anger and fear that the narcissist will devalue and discard them"
Very interesting sentence and it fits my experiences the last years with 'my' narc. Since i went no contact i couldn't find out how this fear is generated, but one can feel it clearly and it prevents the self from good decisions.
Sorry to hear that your family is also (slowly) annihilated. The ultimate setting of a boundary is no contact. And if it has to be so, because the narc is mentally ill (this is my interpretation in the meantime), it has to be so.
It's not your fault.
Boundaries sounds like the main tool that needs to be learned and used to keep the narcissist from exposing us to their bad behavior. Think I'm going to start building my Captain America boundary narc shield.
Some of us never heard of boundaries until we had to research a partner we cared about whose behavior we didnt understand. Many counselors cite the lack of boundaries as the sole reason why someone suffers deeply from a relationship with a Cluster B partner. Seems interesting that for an entire lifetime the boundaries you had seemed to work just fine. And then you met her and that all changed. Retrospectively, this would imply that either you had the wrong boundaries in place, or you didnt enforce the boundaries you had. I would argue the problem is neither. The problem is we were manipulated and didnt know it. How do you apply boundaries to a lie or some other manipulative tactic? First of all, we dont know its a lie. Second, we trust the person. And third no relationship succeeds with compromise. If they wore a sign around their neck that had "NPD" or it it may be different. But remember, we didnt know they were unwell. Also, you are not always certain and confident about a boundary For example, say they want you to jump off a bridge. Your boundary says "no way." But you start to think, hey, its summer, I've had a fear of heights I always wanted to address, this may be fun, she would never hurt me. Understanding boundaries is far more complicated than simply setting one, or many, out of context of the relationship and the reasoning in the moment.
@Black Weirdo I think they are afraid to be vulnerable. Maybe its a control-thing? Maybe its a fear of intimacy? Maybe its a sign of weakness? I do agree that vulnerability is a big part of the equation.
Words,words,words!!!
@@bs4real They represent shared thoughts.
HR is there to protect the company. Always go to the dept of labor, your union, or a workforce attorney before HR to cover yourself. "My attorney" are the worst words for HR to hear.
You are right. I challenged HR twice in two separate companies when defending myself against narc bully bosses. HR defends their own, which is always an abuser. Only the unions stood by me. Most companies are run by psychonarcs anyway and HR are merely a kangaroo court for the evil abusers. HR are meant to balance the needs of the worker with the workplace but instead are just spindoctors and damage limitation armies to protect corporate interests.
Unless you are unlucky like me and you meet a bully in the actual union.
The union kept pressing me to take a legal case. As a very bullied person with no support structure, I did not feel I had the strength for that. I just wanted to know my rights and legal position and deal with it that way.
But they piled the pressure on for me to take a case, until I felt totally bullied by them too.
Fortunately I did not go down that route, I later discovered there was another legal case going on and they wanted me to bolster that, though my situation was quite different. Trust nobody.
You're right, Sarah
It’s so unbelievably deliberate! When I broke up with him I asked for my computer back. I returned all of his things from my house and left it in his back porch. I said the leave the monitor and key board in a box on his porch that it isolated in the woods and very hard to see the entrance and he had upstairs people in the house all day.
He would not do it, and took the computer to my daughter!! A 30 min drive away so he could cry to her. I informed him my a note that he was to not contact me or my family ( this is a guy I dated we were 55 and 60 yrs old) and that he was blocked on all social media as I didn’t want anything to do with him. What does he do?
He mailed me letters!! I never opened any of them. Just got on last month and it’s been a year. What part of GO AWAY FOREVER doesn’t he get! He truly doesn’t care, it doesn’t apply to him.
I used to think I could set boundaries well but I was missing one boundary: my TIME. You can set great boundaries, but if you spend all your time battling to defend them, that is not a victory. Of course setting boundaries can truly require lots of time and energy at first, but speaking long-term if you have to sink hours upon hours defending X to a toxic person, ask yourself if they actually want X, or if they want your time. It can be a catch-22, I've been there, but also a more holistic view of the situation where you can re-evaluate your goals.
@Tewdy Quew "To a narc the more words after your no is more information they can use to twist and use against you later" Truth!
Well said! I think I was the same, I had an idea of where I wanted my boundaries to be, except when people disregarded them, the only response I knew was to keep trying to convince them to understand and respect them.
I lost endless time and energy explaining my tentative boundaries and their reasons to people who simply didn't care and just wanted to walk all over me anyway. I always treated it as a simple misunderstanding between well meaning individuals, which could be clarified and reach a happy ending, but now that I've experienced actual healthy communication with saner people, I realize that well meaning individuals don't take hours to get it. At the very least, even if they don't understand your choices, sane people will still respect them.
Not only is it inefficient to explain your boundaries to someone who doesn't respect them, but more importantly you do NOT owe this time and effort to them.
@@lasphynge8001 Ha, the "misunderstanding" bit made me laugh, sadly. I know what you mean!
@Tewdy Quew well said. but they sure seem to want to get you talking so they could take your time energy and collect any of your words or.otyer Intel and use them out of context against you later in one of their rapid fire nonsense gripe sessions.
True True 💯 % True 🙌
My Narc-Ex liked to say “I don’t like your f...g rules”. He could not accept “no” nor any type of boundaries, and enjoyed braking rules in general just to prove to the world that he won’t conform at all. He was above the rules and entitled.
I have heard the same. "I know I know!!Your place your rules!" as he growls and scowls at me contemptuously.
This is my narc husband.... horrible way to live.
I feel sick. I I hear a similar sentence but haven't wanted to think its this. "I hate your boundaries. I hate your structure" :( Does it mean he's a narc? Is it possible its just a misunderstanding if they say things this way? Or is this Pollyanna thinking?
@@TheSuperchick2008 I don’t know if he is a narcissist, but his reaction is clearly toxic. He doesn’t like that you have boundaries/ standards and it is already a big 🚩 I would be very careful with this person. It certainly doesn’t sound healthy. Don’t let him “groom you”.
Boundaries are really tough for me. I didn't have very many beyond "don't hit me, don't call me names." Which he never did. Which is part of why I stayed as long as I did. I'm still not sure what my boundaries should be, even though I was trampled on.
It's strange, too, I have pretty strong boundaries when it comes to workplaces. I've put my foot down hard at work plenty of times. So people think I'm very strong and couldn't possibly have been in an abusive relationship. It's so hard 😞
Thank you. I recently started putting boundaries in place and thought I was “doing it wrong.” They just ignore them. And so I will learn to not feel bad for not responding to their boundary-pushing behavior.
Good going Ramani.
I am proud to say I am a narc survivor.I didn't know boundaries, all I knew was give and receive the most.That never worked.
Confession time.....I lacked boundaries and that's how I found myself in a mess with ex narc girlfriend 🤫
You are not alone. As I began learning about narcissism and codependency, I realized I’ve had many ex-partners, relatives and friends that are narcissistic and loved how caring and giving I was.
They "always have to stay up one minute after bedtime." Ain't it the truth!
Thank you so much for what you do.
I have a narcissistic mother. I've been in and out of therapy since I was a child. Honestly, watching your videos have helped me way more than the 100's of hours of sitting in someone's office and all the pills they put me on.
I'm 35 and didn't recognize the abuse I endured until 4 years ago. Once I realized that it was abuse, I tried setting boundaries. My mom just became enraged and blew through them even more.
I think it was deliberate too. She really got a kick out of hurting me.
I didn't even try to grey rock her. My therapist suggested limiting contact. I did, but then I realized that she never reached out to me. That lasted for 7 months. I then decided to be officially no contact. Best decision I wver made!
So glad for this video. I just realized as highly empathic person I don’t even know what a boundary is.
Same here.
It is amazing how you NEED to listen to those life saving videos over and over learning, geting validation for your personal experience to allow yourself to grow and gain the strength to become healthy
Thanks is not even an appropriate word to describe the gift you extend to each of us.
Such a masterpiece of content Doctor, thank you! 🙏 I have a narc mother (I moved to another country) and have just successfully sued a narc CEO boss (who is quite well-known). His campaign of physical intimidations, chasing me, threats of violence left me in therapy for months but I have found my voice again ❤️🧿
I am so glad you found your voice again, it gives me hope.
How did you get better?
I still got my healthy boundaries broken down by a covert narcissist. It's a weird feeling of guilt that is none. In fact, it's the narcissist's projection of guilt. The narcissist projects guilt and shame, the narcissistic injury and devaluation.
Thank You soooo muuuch for this pithy, empathetic & liberating insight.
So I am not weak-minded & superficial and need to solely listen to my spouse vs trust I am capable & perspective, deserving of respect. Presently living in mountains alone feeling so much more centered, calm & hopeful than with her. Yep, divorce is only healthy option.
She steamrolled me in marriage counseling & gaslit all our relationship impasses with my childhood fears & traumas holdovers. I am her 4th marriage failure, perhaps enough said there.
Knowing my 'magnet' tendencies figure I best not get hitched again. At 64 yrs old love my autonomy & freedom. Physically healthy & active (volunteering on work detail at a summer camp now) and want to buy another motorcycle (been 40 yrs) for fun & economy. Growing more accepting & comfortable with myself. Process of positive self-discovery.
Can you please do a video on why narcissists get bored easily and constantly need something new?
They are children . They always need new toys and games
I often wonder if the narcs have ADD, ADHD
Jeanie McCormick ; I suspect in some cases, you’re right. I wonder if there are any studies with brain scans of narcissist measuring how they respond to stimuli?🧐
Thank you for addressing those LIVING in narcissistic family of origin environments. The psychological trauma is hard to climb out of.
I refused to explain my new boundaries - I went away.
Talking about boundaries with a narcissist is a no win situation. The harder you push to get them to abide, they act as if it does not apply to them at ALL. Dr. Ramani, each one of your videos have made me go back and look at behaviors from others and myself.
You cannot set a boundary with a narcissist, because as soon as she recognizes where it hurts, the next blow will come with tripple force. Asking "Please, don’t take the money out my vallet without asking." "Please, don’t search my shelves." is like wearing a target with lightbulbs around and words saying "Here, here, this is where and how it hurts. Here, hear, right in this way, you can catch me on your hook."
Otherwise she is shooting in blind - sometimes it hits you, sometimes it doesn’t, but at least it doesn’t come down with the tripple force. Once identified as a narcissist target, you are under a microscope.
It is exhausting to keep the cool, but that’s the only protection there is.
It’s so true.
So true. I give them info about me hoping they'll share back, not knowing they have a mask on,and file the info when they want to control me.
I recently realized I was giving them a roadmap to the next incident by telling too much about a boundary or feeling. Less words. Less is more. Don’t confide.
Watching these videos I'm realizing an old friend, who I've cut off years ago and who is female is a narcissist. I always felt guilty that I did something wrong but also angry at her and her behavior. One time she kissed my boyfriend on the lips right in front of me. She later told her mom this in front of me and her mom said, "he probably liked it." Of course he was so grossed out and creeped out and he actually validated my feelings that there was something wrong with her.
Julia uhhh no kidding. That’s NOT and never was your friend. Screwed up. Glad you’re doing good :)
This behavior IS crossing boundaries. You do not even have to be asking this boundary to be respected. Some friends are not the right friends.
Take care
My biggest problem with setting the boundaries is finding the balance between the narc's needs and mine. The narc is self-centered, selfish, entitled. You do not want to be like him/her... I try to compromise - once you get your way, then comes my turn. Yes, often difficult. They forget that it was THEIR turn last time (oh, so convenient!), and therefore think you must oblige them. Or, they come up with an excuse why they cannot, could not, have not... Yes, it is hard, and even harder not to lose last scraps of your self-respect.
The interesting thing about my narcissist is that he understands and respects societal boundaries but he just devalues me so much that my boundaries do not exist.
He is an abuser plain and simple.
He knows he can’t get away with his grandiose behaviors in other settings.
Most common one I saw:
I wasn't allowed to tease my sisters but my sisters could beat the crap out of me. I was always told I was whiney or just too "sensitive" about it.
Yes: I had a mother in law who was absolutely insulting and when I pushed back I was taking it the wrong way, or I was too sensitive... blah blah - BS, BS, BS. Shut your ears to this garbage... Believe in yourself.
@@argileaustralia3854
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Its good to hear others stories. I dont feel so alone.
This is horrible to say but my mom passed away. I am in the "no contact" phase with my siblings.
I dont have a family. I have issues but I've often wondered if my moms passing actually saved me mentally. I didn't endure for as long as my siblings....I dont know tbough.
When I set the big “we no longer have a personal relationship” boundary with the narc in the office, I not only did it in writing (and provided him with a hard copy 😂) but I ended it with a penalty: if he oversteps this clear boundary that I created, I will inform management of our situation. That “threat” seems to have been the thing that made it WORK.
watch out management might enable him / mine did ! / thats why I
left / too many NARKS
A mantra that helped me:
It's safe to set boundaries with difficult people.
No matter what they say or feel, I am safe.
I am 7 years Narc and Cluster B free recently, but I am decades free since I was born into a hellish stew of all flavors of abuse and being forced to endure my now dead "mother's" religious cult too, with ALL of the abuse and pathology therein. There were two common phrases that I FINALLY became free from from that the LAST toxic person I will ever let into my life again voluntarily. They were the following: "You have too many rules" and "You take the letter of the law too literally." BTW he also daily reminded me that I was lucky to be with such a "good man" too. Before meeting this person the only thing I had ever been involved with criminally, was a speeding ticket. I am very lucky that I didn't get blamed for what he was actively engaging in. I HAD ZERO boundaries when I met him, except for those religious sexual boundaries, and beliefs. I also never did a background check on him, because of my naive trusting nature, I now do this ALL of the time before I let ANYONE new into my life I am VERY blessed that I broke the toxic spell, and it appears that I did this for good this time. I escaped and LEFT this last one and locked the door to him forever, and lived to post this response. These people are not just hurtful, many of them are very dangerous with antisocial and criminal tendancies as well as mean behaviors. Anyone who is listening to this or viewing this, who is still on the fence about your partner, husband or even boss ? LEAVE and or FIND another job you may not live to testify if you don't. I am 54 years old, I am so grateful that I will not die in this previously, dangerous, abusive, and dysfunctional pattern. We ALLOWED what happened to us, once the mask slipped, even though it was subconscious, we still volunteered every day we stayed in the relationship. Now that we know, we must go and never return. Blaming the predators and not owning our own responsibility in staying, will ONLY allow us to keep repeating the pattern. Hugs to all of the survivors here! TAKE YOUR LIFE AND YOUR POWER BACK!
After being in a relationship with my now ex narcissist after 37 years I can definitely see how my boundaries played a part. He blew through all of them until he hit the rock hard one by having an affair and hiding it for two years. His complaint was that he was always wrong whenever I would try to assert my boundaries. Unfortunately, and fortunately, you are spot on with all of this. I am working hard restoring and managing my boundaries as well as disengaging from my ex.
My ex once told me to that using words such as “please” and “thank you” within our relationship was ruining our intimacy as they sound too “formal” 🙄 He just liked being rude towards me and I did not deserve respect.
You’re getting better at conveying this pervasive evil that society teaches victims to continue to remain victims and enable the abusers.
Raised by a narcissist I struggle so much with boundaries. Thank you 🙏🏻
My narcissistic SIL completely understands boundaries, every narc I have known does quite well. They study them in you and find the way to break them that will devour your soul. They know not to violate the bosses boundaries yet continue to do it with co-workers and do it in such a way it is hard prove it to the boss or others as they deny their actions with a hidden smirk.
One thing that I have learned through therapy is the my wife (soon to be ex) was setting my boundaries because of my co-dependency. If I tried to confront her about something it would result in a rage.
Nice to see you back anonymous. I was a little worried 😟
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 Still here. The funny thing is she was right. These videos are helpful just not what she was using them for, which was to project her problem onto me.
"Please don't compare me to..." That's a boundary . Hmmm, didn't know these five words in English could be so combined. Thank you for this Glossary series
Thank You Dr Ramani for this important session!
Yes, getting narcs to respect the boundaries is tricky, as they are "above the law" ! Whew!
..and sneaky!...one has to stay "one step ahead of them...
Again, thank you. I am 54 and I'm only just now trying to set boundaries. It feels wonderful. I feel more empowered than I ever have. It's terrifying but my confidence has grown. Your videos keep me on track.
Dr. Ramani, listening to your videos and seeing all the people who deal with this is profound. Thank you for doing these videos! Don't share important stuff with a narcissist is crucial to not set yourself up for disappointment or pain later. Gray rock means not engaging.
Dear doctor RAMANI, I am an italian psychiatrist, working in a really toxic environment. Your videos are clear, helpful, and scientific informed. Thank you for spreading! 😊🤗
Better understanding from your videos than 40 years of therapy.
Dr ramani i would love to hear you talk about the term Codependency and empaths some day❤🤗
Sending you lots of love
Thank you for this video i needed this so much
Very interested in hearing what Dr. Ramani thinks about co-dependency. I have read that most Narcs are Codependents and in general, co-dependents usually end up in relationships with other co-dependents.
berries 86 i second this!!!!! We need to know what hurt us but we also need to know how to undo & protect ourselves 💜💜💜
This is extremely helpful. Your whole channel should be required viewing.
People, this includes 'family'... stay strong.
I kept hearing people talk about boundaries and I couldn't wrap my head around it before this video. Narcissistic parents are a trip...
I have GOT to learn to effectively go gray rock.