How to Install Oatey Shower Pan Liner
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- Опубликовано: 8 янв 2013
- View the updated video here: • How to Install a Showe...
This video takes you through the step by step process of installing Oatey® PVC Shower Pan Liner. Oatey® PVC Shower Pan Liner is an economical, flexible liner designed for use in tile showers and other concealed waterproofing applications. It's made of 30 or 40 mil thick, flexible PVC sheet and marked in 6 in. increments for easy of measuring. Oatey products have earned the trust of plumbing professionals for over 100 years. Oatey® PVC Shower Pan Liner can be found here: www.oatey.com/products/oatey-... For more information contact Oatey customer service at 1-800-321-9532 or via our Contact Us page: www.oatey.com/contact. 
Хобби
35 year installer here. Those corners were a mess. And it should ALWAYS be dry pack CONCRETE not mortar for your pre slope and mud bed. Mortar is best for wall mud (not floors) where the added lime allows it to grab to the lath. Mortar makes lousy mud beds is prone to cracking and almost impossible to screed a pitch without it slumping. Also a good idea to use tar paper behind the cement board and install it slightly above the mud bed to help eliminate water wicking up into it. I've seen shower pan liners leak many times under the top flange also. The rubber compresses over time and the seal is lost. I like to also silicone under the top flange where it meets the pan, then clean the weep holes out with a finish nail. I've used Oatey products no less than 1000 times and should own stock in the company by now! Lol
How much to come do my 4x4 shower floor. Head spinning trying to make sure I do it right
Thanks for the tips.
Thanks 👍
I agree. Mortar was always used for laying bricks and blocks. Portand cement was used for floors. New times, new products, new methods.
@HowToDoItDude Portland cement is in both products. The addition of lime to concrete (minus the stones) basically turns it into mortar. Mortar in no circumstances makes a better floor mud. It's weaker, prone to cracking, but it does have some bonding capabilities, depending on the substrate.
The soft spoken gentleman’s voice makes this so much easier to understand.
Like watching the special Olympics of pan installation.
Install wall board (including cement board) about 3/4" minimum above finished mud bed. Never set the wall board into the shower pan... Regardless of what type of wallboard is used
Yes yes and yes. Seen many videos where the water will creep up in cement board and rot nails or screws.
Oatey should revise their diagram to show that.
Gary Sisk
Saw your reply. It's always worked pretty good for me.
I usually glue the liner to my curb with liquid nail or whatever then thinset the folded durock to the pan liner. Screw on the front and mud locks on the inside . Usually pretty solid. Hope it works for you.
Here are a few things I've noticed based on comments and other videos:
1) Use a moisture barrier behind the backer board on the walls, overlapping the bottom layer of the liner so water flows into the pan.
2) Use builders felt paper on the plywood subfloor (no need for that diamond lathe) and use Mapei 4 to 1 Mud Bed to slope down to the drain (Mapei has good instructions for subfloor prep in their product guide). I mixed 1 50lb bag with 3qt water or less for a really good mix. Only the layer ABOVE the liner needs 2" x 2" galvanized lathe.
3) On the top mortar bed above the liner, use the 2" x 2" galvanized lathe (noted above)
4) One guys video on here for the dam corners talks about cutting a X in the liner (not circle) and gives some good reasons on why (if the drain backs up, etc.). I might do a combo of sealing the ring but still use the X cut for the drain so the barrel clamps it to create a seal. He also doesn't cut a large X above the bolt heads to minimize the punctures in the pan liner.
5) As noted in this video, use Goof Proof shower curb kit to fasten the shower pan over the curb. That way you dont puncture the liner when tiling.
Feel free to add any more tips I may have missed or any that need correction. Doing my first liner now.
I incorporate my liner inside a cement curb. My channel has some shorts on how this works if you’re board. I’ve been using this method for 19 years with zero issues. It gives you a bullet proof pan that is solid to step on and doesn’t feel hollow and cheap like foam based pans. most people won’t do it because it’s technically challenging and time consuming but its the only way I install my pans.
Oatey's videos specifically mantion omitting tar paper and advocate using the wire under the sloped bed of mortar. Different but those are this manufacturer's recommendations
Great video, You answered all of my questions I had about the job I'm doing tomorrow...Thank you, and I will use your products.
I did my Bathroom following this vid and my work looked professionally installed and with absolutely no leaks👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Three years later.... how’d that work out for you?
Finally a real pan install without Schluter garbage.Only critique is drypack or deck mud is typically used, dryer than the video
My company does it a bit different but there is similar things with this tutorial. We do mud to floor then add membrane then wait a day then mud, thinset, then add a stone top. We silicone everything in the next day. The thinset seems to help with the stone not cracking.
I have built 12 tile showers over the last few years and have used roughly the approach described in the video for all of them, however there are issues that this video doesn't deal with. If anybody is about to build their first shower considerably more information is required. For me the best source of information was the John Bridges book on tiling. After, I learned a lot from watching an actual tile guy for a few hours and a more from the internet and the John Bridges Tile forum.
"Tile Coach" on youtube has some really good videos and does some product tests. lots of great information. The only bad part is when he tries to shill products from his online store.
Well, at least they're pitching the pan, However,
** The wallboard should be a 1/2 ' off the slab to stop capillary action. ( also allows you to tuck your cuts under the wall)
Shouldnt be wallboard; cement doesn't have capillary attraction, best advice hire a professional, cause whoever is telling u to use wallboard doesn't sound smrt
Put Wall board on over the pan and above the mortar bed so it doesn't suck water up the walls.
And it eventually will. It's a shame that Oatey didn't consult a pro before showing people to do this!
Very good video that dispelled several bits of bad info I received from my plumber.
Well this plumber of 38 yrs thinks this video is stupid, just cutting the corners, why would you do that, fold it so you don't have to rely on glue to seal it, alot are of plumbers are idiots, and there is a reason why some lawyer get 1000 per hour and some make ar 250 per hour, same for plumbers, u get what u pay for
I use Oatey from kiln cement to shower liners. Y'all always got the goods!! Keep it up, great 🎥!! 👍🏼
You should never let your hardy board go to bottom of pan, always keep it up off the bottom!!!!!!
Never use Hardie it is garbage
Embed your wallboard INTO the poured pan....REALLY BRIGHT OATEY !!
Not recommended by some wallboard manufacturers. You dam recommendations are lacking. EZ to top dam with chicken wire under mortar floor and over top and down outside, putting a tile wallboard on outside, a 2x form on the inside, and forming a sloped top.
Any particular reason why you need to? Tilemasterga gave a good explanation why you should NOT do so. I've seen your videos and you seem very experienced so I imagine doing so has worked well for you.
Sorry, I was confusing you with another well known channel - Sal DiBlasi. Sal embeds the concrete board into the pan. I'd rather do it like you do.
What's the problem with that? It's cement board right, so is it really a big deal? I was planning on doing that too. I don't think they're using sheet rock, I think they're just using cement board.
ANY backerboard is porous, and will wick up water...mold will grow behind it when that occurs.
seriously. thank you OATEY!
BlastReadingSeries uc
When I don't have gravel for around the drain I just use M&Ms. I always have M&Ms with me
🤣🤣🤣🤣
WTH, 😂😂😂😂
Or skittles
Melts in your mouth not in the shower
Oatey, thank you for this product! Quick question, can I use a nice Kohler drain with your Oatey drain? Thnks!
Here's a way I find very effective for the curbs without having to puncture the liner. After the liner is in place and before the is base poured, I pre bend a piece of wire lathe the length of the curb; approx. 4" into the base, up the inside curb, over the top of the curb and finally down the outside of the curb. So I don't have to lay the lathe directly on the liner, using an adhesive, I put a strip of 1/4" wonder board on the liner in the base, a vertical piece on the inside of the curb and a third piece on top of the curb, all full lenght. I lay the lathe on that and nail the outside of the lathe to the outside of the curb. Once the base is poured and the lathe is secure you can build out the inside, outside and top of the curb with mortar
Mickey McCarthy
Damn...not too bad of an idea. Thank you!
But then you have wonderboard inside the shower below water. Over time won't this cause mold problems? Why not do as you suggest but only put a backerboard on the outside of the drain to hold the edge, and then flaot mortar on the top and inside?
@@rickvinmi7141You can probably get away with not putting the wonder board on top and on the inside of the curb, however, I like that fact that it protects the vinyl from being punctured by the wire lathe. After the stucco coat is applied and dried I Red Guard the top, inside the curb and the first two inches of the shower base.
Exactly
What do you suggest for covering the pan liner on the curb? What is bricks are used as the curb on a concrete basement floor?
should the drain be level with the coller before you apply the waterproofing?
A few more comments:
1. I think the mortar used for the pan was wetter than I've ever seen advised before and if mortar that wet is used I would expect some slumping as it sets.
2. I've never heard of using glue to attach the membrane to the pan but it looked like it might be a good idea.
3. Most of the tile experts recommend tar paper and diamond lathe over a wood subfloor under the preslope. The video didn't mention this and FWIW, I've never used it and I haven't noticed any issues.
Hi buddy I always use plumbers and tile guys and never see any one installed correctly till now in this video; but be honest it’s the correct way should be install pen liner every time.
@@j.c7399 same here. but did u have any issues with those?
The the plywood goes directly ontop of the main cement floor?..is it added with some type of adhesive or no need?
I been looking for a video of this kind of detailed advice for a while…… and FINALY this one shows up and explains everything anyone needs to know to properly self do it! Thank you very very much!
This video has a few major flaws in it, don’t do your pan like this or it will 100% fail.
No it doesn't. Only an a DIY would fall for that
Thank you very very much!
Does it have to be felt under the pre slope? Can i use thicknplastic sheet?
Great video, answer all the question I had.
The best video on you tube how to install the liner step by step thanks ...a lot of videos on you tube how to do it this is the correct one thanks again for sharing
@oatey y'all should have shown how to cover entrance frame patching before corners. that's the only thing I am lacking to do.
Oatey,
I’m looking for a video that helps one choose the right drain for ones specific installation (membrane, hot mop, dry pack, all possible installations). Your website doesn’t have this either. Maybe in your test labs you have mocked-up your drains and have already filmed each and every drain you make? Upload please.
He was wonderful exclamation thanks
only if there is a threshold ? what if you wanted to create a curbless or barrier free shower ?
Molded wall boards. Guaranteed!
Very good product
good info
At 7:04, adding concrete board "about 1 inch above".... well the video looks like it is just 1/4 or maybe 1/2 inch above liner; not the 1 inch recommended. Might I suggest some sort of non-sharp spacer be used here?
Touchdown. This video guided me through the whole process, the only thing I did was add paper and wire laithe to the prepitch.
U should of hired a professional to tell u way wrong way to install a membrane
Note the this video uses diamond lath under the per slope.
Then there the curb - would you put diamond lath on the vinyl
liner and then mortor - NOT ME - but that is what they're doing on
a lot of DIY videos.
3:55 "Contact Oatey technical support for our list of approved adhesives" Or, just notice the tube of Liquid Nails being used.
Wow. For a moment I thought I was doing liners wrong this whole time. Until I realized this video was made by a tile guy.LOL
Are there any issues using only a pressure treated 4x4 for the curb? I think a lower profile curb will look better in my small bathroom.
You need at least 4.5 inches, because if you build a lower curb and then fill with the correct amount of mortar, you won't have any inside curb left when you are finished.
@@MrDavidBFoster the issue with PT for the curb is that PT is notoriously wet and warps as it dries. This can pop tiles down the road. For this reason (and to satisfy code where PT is required on concrete contact), people use bricks to make curbs.
@@MrDavidBFoster that's not true I build 3.5" curbs all the time and have a 1.5" lip on the inside of the shower after I am done. I have a preslope and a mudbed in the shower floor the mubed is 1.5" thick at the edges and the preslope is 3/4" thick at eh edges.
@@tileman30years6 Great information...............no one ever addresses what you just stated in the hundreds of videos I have watched over the past 7 months!!! Thank You................. You get a gold star!!!
thanks
I want to replace my old tub with a handicap shower. It's an older house and on Pier beams.
The “waterproof” cement board should not be installed into the mortar bed. There has been a lot of failure of water seeping up the board and failing a few years after installation.
Yup I just look same that this video is just BS. With that way capillar effect will suck water inside walls and they will rot and grow mould.
Sorry took me abit to get what you were talking about in the vid...so the way to go about is to install it "ontop""?..
But according to all the Homeowner/Subcontractor RUclips Redgard Gurus out there this should never be an issue if your using Redgard. Because Redgard is the one and only snake oil you will ever need. In fact they say just use sheetrock with Redgard it will last forever.
Just keep the walls cement board a 1/4 to a 1/2 an inch over the shower floor and i will be fine
@@Alfonsolpl5 Exactly! Cement board above the finished tile floor then wall tile to within 1/8 of an inch to the floor then silicone caulk.
Im doing a shower, 6x3 feet do they have that size of plastic liner?
They sell it by the ft so its 5'x whatever you need
Usually readily available at big box stores in 5x6 or 5x10. Sharpen those sizzers
This is the best video for the shower
I've been doing tile for 40 years and I have not seen a video that they did all areas correctly the folds on the inside Corners are usually wrong this one in this video is is incorrectly folded in the corners
I'm sure the marketing guy thought it was fine. I'm also sure the marketing guy has probably never done this before.
What is the approved adhesive for pvc to mortar base? It looks like liquid nails construction adhesive in the video. That should be listed in the video!
Loctite pl3 polyurethane or Liquid nails polyurethane adhesive LN950 , my research shows
I notice that is most "how to" shower videos they NEVER mention glueing down the pan liner. THANKS for discussing this! Am I correct that PL3 glue works well for this? It seems to be just about the only adhesive that specifically mentions that it works with PVC.
Why would u glue a shower liner down,
Listen everyone adhesive is not necessary under liner if you have a small wrinkle if you have a big wrinkle and can't get flat get an other liner small wrinkles not bigger than an 1/8 of an inch don't matter because you are going to put concrete over it.
Question.Is it absolutely necessary to add the first mortar bed even though your adding another one on top of the liner???
yes. although some people dont do it anyways....
its a pre slope,,in case water leaks past tile it will hit the membrane {which is on top of pre slope} then hopefully find its way to the weep holes ,,
Yes, because grout and mortar are both porous materials water will eventually wick through to the membrane layer. With a pre-slope, gravity will divert the water to the weep holes on the drain assembly allowing it to drain. Without a pre-slope it is likely that some water will not drain and become stagnant, allowing mold and mildew growth.
At 5:30 the corners look a little unweildy to me. Regardless, the next section discusses the leak test. My question is - What is most common type of leak discovered and what did you do to fix it before going to the next step? Everyone talks about leak testing, but no one ever finds a leak and illustrates how to fix them.
Rip out the liner and try again most likely
Do you have to make a pre slope?
@Logan Roach Yes we do. The Perfect Slope is our 40" x 40" pre-slope base and 40" x 20" extensions are available. Here is a link to the product page spr.ly/6052Krels.
Can the Oatey pan liner be heat welded instead of adhesive ?
Probably not, maybe because of the fumes,very toxic,and it may not weld properly...
@@68humbertob TPO is a similar product, I heat bond it 90% of the time.
cool
At the end it mentions that nails or staples should not be used on the curb, and a preformed cement board should be used. what is that preformed cement board? I cannot find any information on that
Durock or Wonder board. HD or Lowes. maybe they mean shower pan or shower base.
Pre-formed curbs are all but impossible to find at the local big-box stores. Most contractors just nail on cement board. Doing this, of course, gives Oatey the out they are looking for in refusing warranty coverage (probably why you can never find pre-formed curbs at the local big-box). :-)
Ernie Stedman Thanks Ernie
***** Thank you David
***** Do NOT nail on cement board except to the OUTSIDE of the curb. Guaranteed leak and dry rot. Instead, get 2ft wide chicken wire, double, form wire from under mortar floor, over dam, and nail on outside, then cover outside with board up appx 6 inches, form floor of shower over wire, wedge 2x so that it forms the inside of the finished curb and pour with mortar to cover wire under dam. Very ez to do.
does the top mortar bed slope to the drain?
Of course...both do...there are 2 mud beds.
Rick Fountain thanks..i thought so...its just that sometimes they leave out specific instructions
I don't do the bottom slope pan
is it ok to apply redgard waterproofing before installing oatey pan liner
Thanks for reaching out. Oatey does not recommend that our pan liner be used in conjunction with any liquid applied waterproofing membrane. If the pan liner is correctly installed and tested based on your local jurisdictions code to ensure a leak-free seal, there is no need to apply a liquid waterproofing membrane.
@@OateyCompany what is the effect if you decided to add a waterproofing membrane before installing the oatey pan liner. thank youi
Unfortunately, we can only recommend installing the Oatey pan liner in accordance with the approved methods outlined in the products instructions. Unapproved installation methods could void any applicable warranties.
Go get a schluter shower kit and deadline the mud and tire patch kit
Damn, I already did step 7 before,
That's some wet mortar. Do you guys watch the video before putting it out there?
Looks like a high school home improvement class. That’s not deck mud lol
I don’t know why it’s referred to as a wet bed when it’s supposed to be a dry pack mortar bed . Don’t think Oatey got the memo
How much would a job like that cost? I have three showers that need to be done, and just want to get a ballpark figure of how much it will cost? Thanks again for the video!
Material $200 per shower. from 30 yr contractor
+Tony Garza Regular standard shower size for a job like this is about 350-400 depending on the installer.
Be atleast the 3-400, the guy that said 200in material, add 150/ hr for a decent plumber and tile guy, materials are cheap, experience is not
Don't know why they didn't use some sort of mesh to hold the cement together? Won't it crack without something to keep it together?
yeah did use a mesh on the first coat of cement
I'm getting ready to do this in my shower. I'm using a Portland cement that has fiber in it. They're using it on driveways now instead of using rebar so I figure it should be good to go in a shower.
They used mesh to reinforce the pre-slope. There is no need to use in the main layer. It is strong enough without adding mesh. In all the many books and videos I've watched, I have never see anyone reinforce the main pan layer. It is overkill.
nman is incorrect.
the main pan is more likely to fail than the "preslope" which is in and of itself an extra step of retarded......
the top layer of mortar is obviously exposed to more heat abs cooling, exposed to saturation, and pressure.
there is no need for mesh, but it's a good precaution to go longer.
Where can you get the material to build your own? I'm planning to rebuild my bathroom .
This is Not a Dry Mix? Oatey had a mock up with a Cement Mix (wet mix). Idea is to have a Dry mix so as the water will Penetrate quickly down to the liner and into the weep holes. Suppose a Wet Mix will allow water to escape below onto pan liner also but at a much Slower Speed. Idea to have water Rapidly Go To Drain
Yes, this top pan layer seems FAR too soupy. I thought the entire idea of "weep holes" requires a dry pack to allow the weepong of the water.
That's probably why they do two layers of cement
Pre Slope. If the water reaches the shower pan it can drain towards the drain
Nice.
when you say cure do you mean 28 days?
I notice that the video doesn't show the installation of a vapor barrier behind the cement backer board. This is a pretty serious error and goes along with what I mentioned in a previous comment. This is a nice video but it is incomplete and if somebody is building their first shower I think looking around for more complete instructions would be a good idea.
You paint the face of the cement board with a liquid waterproofing membrane such as redgard or use a fabric membrane such as kerdi over the cement board to make it 100% water/vapor proof. If you do that, you should NOT use the vapor barrier plastic behind the cement board, it would cause a moisture sandwich. The plastic vapor barrier behind the cement board is only used if you're not watetproofing the face of the cement board.
@@willinthearea6318 I totally agree. but as a practical matter vapor barriers work well, although I think another approach like the one you describe is required for steam showers and it might just be best practice. Completely sealed shower walls with things like Kerdi or liquid water proofing was a thing when I built showers it might be more common today. As an aside I demoed at least one shower that had been built without waterproofing behind the walls. That worked surprisingly well. What didn't last was flat hot tar waterproofing under a flat tile shower pan.
I always run plastic moister barrier on the studs and layer it over the pan liner, stopping it just before the base. Water will run down into the pan if it makes it through the cement board at any point. My rationale is that plastic is cheap and easy to install and catches all the moisture that makes it through the cement board and water proofing imperfections. Any other installers use the plastic method and have results to share?
I still use tar paper most of the time...but I've also used Tyvek...In my opinion it is absolutely worth taking the extra 10 minutes. 👍
@@scottshepard3662 tar paper is always a great inexpensive option for a moisture barrier. How do you plumb and flatten your studs? Do you use shims, planer, set your wall boards in mud, or just compensate with your mortar while setting tile?
OATEY SAVE ME
Is it necessary to have two layers of mortar when I have a backer board floor do I have to make a layer of mortar under the shower pan liner and also above is it necessary somebody please help
Why are they using a metal mag
U left out the paper on the plywood and the expanded wire mesh first
LOL...Just shove that durarock (backwards I might add) into those bottom corners...Those rough edges will help with keeping the pan water tight! ( sarc off)...Now I know why they abbreviate the company name to OD...When the ceiling falls through in the living room from the leaks and the tile pops up from the shitty wet bed and the lawsuits start piling up...You'll want a hot shot of Heroin to take away the pain...
anyone know if that pre-slope is too thin? the drain is sitting directly on the subfloor making the dry-pack like an 8th inch...
My pans look better than the one in this video 😎
I have a hole my dog dug in the backyard that looks better than the pans in this video.
no dry pack?
I suggest a new item to make...and yes you can pay me for it! A toilet one, because my bathroom is 5x6 and I'm including my toilet in the shower...so I'll be caulking around the toilet plumbing because nobody makes a shower drain but for the toilet and membrane.
Anyone else notice he's gluing the wrong side of the outside cormer
Last cement pour is too wet. It will crack! Think wet sand castle sand!
Jeremy B. Mm
That mortar mix is way too wet it's going to seep through the Pebbles and clog the weep holes
if it can clog a hole than wouldn't that be reassurance that water would not seep thru the mortar to begin with? Of course not.
@@azdeh1894 apparently you're too dumb to know what a weep hole is or what it does so, I'll explain...
Along the sides of the drain there are flat spots called "WEEP HOLES" so that any water seeping through cracks in the mortar or just seeping through the mortar itself will drain through the WEEP HOLES into the drain and not onto the floor underneath the shower.
@@Manuel_Z_Kayaks water will flow regardless..if it can penetrate the pan, it can penetrate a clog. You're stupid because you think it will penetrate penetrate the top layer but not the same substance clogging a hole? If done right the only exit for water to flow is down that drain pipe.
@@azdeh1894 I'VE BUILT AT LEAST 50+ SHOWER PANS. THE WATER CAN PENETRATE EVERYTHING BUT THE RUBBER LINER. IF THE WEEP HOLES ON THE SIDES OF THE DRAIN ARE CLOGGED THEN THE WATER WILL FILL THE LINER AND WILL NOT GO DOWN THE DRAIN!
I'M JUST GOING TO BLOCK YOU FOR BEING STU...
@@Manuel_Z_Kayaks lol you don't get it.
I'm no tile guy, but shouldn't the liner be installed first, and then the mud bed?
The pre-slope is installed first, followed by the liner ,and then the mortar bed. The liner is installed on top of the pre-slope to ensure any water that wicks through the grout and mortar bed drains to the weep holes on the drain preventing mold and mildew growth.
@@OateyCompany Oh ok, got it. Thanks!!!
@@OateyCompany I wonder if using bituthane roofing membrane to cover subflooring before preslope would be a good idea?
We recommend reaching out to the manufacturer of the product in question to determine if it is approved for this application.
@@OateyCompany why did the installer bury the wall board in the mud. That’s a big NO NO when building showers.
Wrong. Do not install the walls before the motar bed.
How to get in touch with oatey
You can reach us at: 800-321-9532 or fill out a contact form here: spr.ly/6051JyNGh
Mine failed after 10 years due to water leakage between flange clamp and liner. Followed all install directions with Oatey products being used. Shower subfloor area had to replaced. I’ve been told that is the expected life (~10 years) of this shower drain system. I’m sure Oatey will say the failure was due to installation error and not their product. There are better systems out there.
thanks for posting info
Preformed shower pans is the way to go. Tiles on a shower floor is always prone to failure. It’s only a matter of time.
A brutalist archaic method from the past.
instead of having folks call Oatey/ why not name the products..?
Yes indeed. I see they are using liquid nails so I'm going to use that.
Your mud is way to wet this is only supposed to be damp enough to make a snow ball
Dude floating that floor sucks
TERRIBLE installers... good product
That's not a pan maker guy, in fact it does not even has a pitch & that mortar is way too wet & not even smooth, too many lumps
Where the hell did that guy learn to float a pan? Always floor pans with dry pack mud.
Looks like they needed an actor to make the video.
fundasion plomeria
good info but talks too fast
Shouldn't put the corners in at all ...