fantastic work! your lore series are very informative and many times I find them useful in my work to refresh certain parts of story, or to learn some details which I missed
Racja Kamil. Przyznaj, że grudniowa aktualizacja (lub kolejna) będzie znów o atlasie i będzie kończyła lore w epilogue. Twój utwór z PoE 2, a dokładnie jego nazwa związana z "corruption" według mnie spoileruje dużo o tym jak to wszystko się skończy i potoczy dalej w PoE 2. Zaskoczyć mnie już w sumie mogą tylko szczegóły, czyli komu co i jak :P
I've been looking over this for a while, and I think there may be something worth considering. From a linguistic standpoint, it troubles me to assume that the permutation for "is/ being" in the new items relates to "old" and the permutation of "not" is "new". What if the symbol you've assumed means "new" actually means "false" (an extension of not) and what you've assumed means "old" actually means "true/truth" (an extension of is/are). This would change the last line of Yielding Mortality to "The false God is not the true God" and the last two lines of Surging Thoughts to "They will move to this false (assumed) imprisonment and will plan an attack, the false God is Sirus. This could tell of the events of the Elderslayers being assumed trapped in the Atlas, while at the same time planning their escape. Admittedly, this changes the translation to a simple recounting of events that have already come to pass, rather than ones that have yet to, but the connotation of the symbols remains much more consistent in this case. Interestingly, this translation leaves some interesting room for interpretation in all this regarding Zana's role in the events that have transpired, and have yet to transpire. For some real tinfoil hattery, we could instead assume the symbol for Sirus is actually the symbol for Zana, which thoroughly changes the narrative entirely. Yielding Mortality now tells of Zana's corruption. "God's body (physical form) has changed. God's mind has changed. The false God is not the true God." and Surging Thoughts tells off her and the Elderslayers. "The followers have been separated from their God/ the followers have separated from their God (her teachings). They are in a false prison and plan an attack. The false God is Zana." This could just as well tell of the Elderslayers and Sirus, but it seems slightly more fitting that "Yielding Mortality" tells of Zana's inevitable corruption, rather than Sirus'. Furthermore, if we take the symbol for "Wraeclast" to mean "Imagination" or "Dream World" (maps), all of the upgraded items become a thorough recounting of the Elderslayers escaping into their own minds (becoming obsessed with their power and the power of the Atlas), breaking free from Zana's guidance, splitting up into the corners of the Atlas, becoming reliant on their projections (as Sirus accuses), Zana and her power being shattered, her not being done in her pursuits, her power being neverending, the need for new followers (us), her becoming corrupted (her physical form changed) and her increasing irrationality, and finally the Elderslayers plotting their revenge from within the Atlas while Zana assumes them to be sealed away. This also changes the original translations to be a warning of the corruption of the Atlas and the excessive exploration of it. Even assuming the Harbingers do indeed worship The Elder, this seems a bit more fitting. Inverting the symbols for Maps and Wraeclast makes even more sense, whereby they warn of the potential for The Elder to rule over Wraeclast by way of the Maps and the Mind. The final line of The Messenger becomes a warning that "The portal to the maps/atlas/mind will bring destruction to Wraeclast/ the world."
I think this is a really interesting theory. I hope we can see more of the Harbingers, the linguistics of their items always has been fascinating to me.
This series is for sure my favorite PoE content out there. Thank you so much! I never would have deciphered all of this on my own. I love the game, but they really want you to work for the story. Thank you!
If you're looking for suggestions, I'd really appreciate a video regarding the increasingly believable theory that the world the player is in is an illusion. There are so many bits and pieces alluding to it and/or mirrors (of Kalandra/Delirium/Yugul/Halls of Mirrors) that I feel like an entire video bringing it all together could be both super educational and very enjoyable. And thank you as always!
@@KittenCatNoodle I think it's related to the nightmare and hopefully isn't a fourth wall situation as I think that could take some of the gravity out of it.
@@_alex_y.not_ yeah, I've seen some people mention they think the "illusion" is that it is a game, and while there's definitely some meta comments (like the conquerors returning to the Atlas over and over) I think the illusion as the nightmare is more compelling. I'll look into it!
@@KittenCatNoodle It could also relate to the theory of the "mirror world" idea, that the world itself is endlessly repeating (similar to how it looks if you take 2 mirrors and face them together, aka the hall of mirrors effect). The "illusion" that characters mention could be the idea that the world's timeline is finite, aka it's events do not repeat, when through gameplay and the narrative we know otherwise, thus an "illusion" of a finite-timeline. That does give me an answer to how GGG would let PoE 1 and 2 share an end-game, since time is not finite, that could mean the world exists "outside of time", which I think the Atlas has been regarded as before.
But if the elder is broken and there are 5 "pieces" on the symbol maybe each conqueror is posessed by a piece of the elder. And if all of them come together the cod is rejoined in a new form. I think this forshadows some future change of the endgame, where the three pieces rejoin and form a new boss.
That's a really cool idea!! That would make a lot of sense actually. They've taken his powers and developed them. They had become their own beings, apart from god and each other, but now they have an opportunity for even more power by uniting once more
@@KittenCatNoodle Im going off on a limb and hypothesizing that the Manifestations that the Elderslayers use in our fights are the same fragments of power the Elder imbued his guardians with, they even share similar themes. I would not be surprised if we see a new form of the Elder in poe 2, or an upcoming expansion. This theory would also explain why the madness affected the elderslayer way harder than Zana. Like a festering disease
@@KittenCatNoodle Also I would argue that the New god, is more in context that the Elder is now a force of decay, and is no longer their god who they imprisoned. Especially since there is the Mind has changed text, signaling that the Elder is no longer sane, and has more or less become a force of decay.
Woe me I had not rang that bell. Oh those eight months of videos I must now watch with attention. Thank you, kitty prophet, for deciphering the arcanes of PoE lore that my poor soul, having never pushed a character past T4 maps, craves for
Going through all the old leagues and doing shorter snippets would be cool. Delve and breach would be cool. And synthesis because i think a lot of people missed a lot of the league even though it had a lot of lore and voice work in it
I like your theory. The watcher's eye text says: One by one, they stood their ground against a creature they had no hope of understanding, let alone defeating, and one by one, they became a part of it. It could refer either to the conquerors, and how they got consumed by madness, but there is a chance it could it be that the symbol for "followers" is actually refering to the watchers of decay which that imprisoned the elder, and became "part of him" by taking his powers and becoming harbingers? Another option is that the visions elder gave to Valdo when he first met him, showing him that the elder was actually a king and was betrayed, is not 100% a lie, and the harbingers were elder followers who collaborated with the watchers of decay, imprisoning him, and taking his powers to themselves. May be is a mix of both.
Yes!! I was definitely considering this but wasn't so sure, because we don't know much about the watchers. They are presented as "people" who learned about the elder. But there are many, many years between the watchers beginning and them sealing the elder. Maybe the harbingers weren't always these strange beings? Maybe they were people, the watchers, and they became harbingers through the elders powers? Maybe they split into 2 groups, those who followed and those who resisted/fought the elder? It's honestly a great theory and I think you might be onto something
My theory has always been that the player is a (possibly broken) god. If the player is the one they worshipped and stole power from, then it would make sense that we're hunting and killing them while gaining levels and power.
I like the theory, hard to really prove something thats written in such a cryptic manner, but it seems like you've really put some time into this :) love the poe lore vids. please keep them coming
The amount of time you put into this is super impressive. Its pretty insane that GGG puts this much time into lore and someone like myself who has played for years gets literally nothing out of the time they spent unless someone like yourself takes the time to decipher it. Imagine if you take the 4 conquerors and elder all in the arena at the same time in the new league if he just completely ignored you and goes full ham on the 4 conquerors and then turns into his former self.. if the shaper is also present rather then fight the elder with you he sides with you after realising the new elder is far too powerful to be allowed to survive.
Cool video! I started getting really into the game with harbinger league, so I wanted to learn the lore, but I couldn't get past understanding the symbols. I had always assumed that the harbingers were harbingers of the elder, because he was introduced the league after; it wouldn't make sense for them to be harbingers of something that was already here, or wouldn't be here soon.
I absolutely love your videos and your theories are so well researched and clever it's absolutely amazing! I wonder if this time again, the harbingers are trying to warn us of something. Didn't Chris Wilson say something big was coming for the next extension?
Pretty sure Chris mentioned in the last Baeclast that they might alrdy give us a new endgame in the next league. It would be pretty cool if the Harbingers were referring to that.
This video's is awesome with the new Echo's of the Atlas content! The harvest items could have been referring to the Maven, maybe she speaks in such broken English because her first language is Harbinger
i realized if your theory is true it could explain what sirus means when he says: "Perhaps the suffering of my fellow citizens will finally stir something." in 16:05 you are translated new items in to "God is seeking arcane power from the followers" so maybe it's a hint as well. anyway great theory
Now that GGG has come out with spoilers about Harvest and Oshabi / The Grove, it would be interesting to have a video on Corruption as a force in the game. That or something about the Old Gods, especially the Grieving Mother and Arakali - unless you already made a video covering that.
@@KittenCatNoodle interesting idea. In my mind they are best buddies with Tora and then slowly getting from there. :) I think Tora is the only one who doesn't bully her and they both are kinda socially awkward.
If you are correct that could mean GGG could do a Harbinger 2.0 League.. hmm i would love that honestly.. like an "UBER" Sirus where you have to fight him and Harbingers :D
First Ones seem to be main antagonists of the new campaign of PoE2, but the endgame will be something different, and it will be the same for old and campaign as well
Given that GGG recently said that the next expansion would be "an Atlas expansion (like War or Conquerors)" , it seems that your theory is shaping up to very much be a possibility. Uber Sirus on the horizon?
Welp, it seems either 3.11 is Sirus (since GGG worked on PoE 3.0 much more time than on 3.11) or something upcoming in 3.14/PoE 2, since Maven (or what was her name again?) is not fiting for a new story.
@@ArturFlintchannel ye it felt like maven just want to play with us I think we won't kill her in game we just going to "defeat" her and play with her again
My guess? First of all, I am taking a bit of a leap in assuming that the 'Atlas of worlds', as an ever-shifting mess of pocket-dimensions, is distinct from 'world' in the 'fully formed planet in its own right' sense that the Breach-demon and Harbinger home-worlds seem to be. Possibility A: The god-nullifying effect of the beast somehow 'spilled over' into another world- not the Atlas, but an actual, physical planet somewhere out in the universe. This planet presumably had only a singular god to begin with, unlike the many competing cultural pantheons that exist on Wraeclast and the unnamed greater-world beyond its shores. The proto-Harbingers imprison their god and use its powers in a way analogous to how the Virtue Gems draw upon the sleeping Beast. Possibility B: Assuming a certain symbol does in fact mean 'map' instead of 'space', it is possible that one of the cultures of Wraeclast had a literal 'God of maps/cartography'- considering their seafaring nature, perhaps a minor enough Karui god to have never come up- who due to his particular sphere of authority was able to abuse a loophole and enter the Atlas with his followers without needing a map-device. After this, follow as with A. Perhaps he and his followers reached somewhere where time flowed more quickly, causing them to rapidly diverge form the rest of humanity both culturally and biologically. I find it interesting to note: It is slightly ambiguous weather the Harbingers are *serving* their god by going to Wraeclast, or *fleeing* it.
Wonder if they have anything to do with the beings like The Maven too then, since there are apparently more of beings like the Elder. Really hope you make a video on The Maven once all info on her is out, I've only seen a bit of her, and I am excited to see more!
IDK if this was brought up but the names less god that spoke to the watchers... could that be a harbinger? They sensed weakness in their god (or captor) and used the opportunity to rally support against elder.
Not unite perhaps. That has a very peculiar design. Its build like the old guardians in the atlas. It's made like the x5 slot map device. Unite may be part of it, but I think it's more "the parts unite" to one. Like how the shaper/sacrifice/elder fragments "Unite into a map" I think the God who knew of the elder was either Sin or "Familiar voice" Mr. Tang. Sin hasn't indicated bad intent ever yet, just bad morals. He is able to divine information from a higher form. And he does oddly disappear it seems after Sirus. Mr. Familiar(don't know his name) delerium effect looks straight up like decay. Perfidy looks like the pillars in the elders arena as does the other armor parts. It fits in theme he would want to drive the mother crazy with knowledge of the elder. And we do know the Mr.Tang knows of stuff beyond wraeclast quite abit like how the world is "Chayula's dream"
This is very interesting, loving the videos! I only have one idea on how to improve the translation of the new pieces. And I feel like you were going in the right direction, but you skipped the very obvious thing. God's body didn't become changed or yielding. It became mortal (Yielding Mortality) The image even looks like a person. And people are mortal. Therefore I suggest that image means mortal, or in another contexts, human/person/man I definitely also agree with sirus being that last glyph, it even looks like him with his weird throne thing behind his head. Not sold on the Unite, but it's really hard to decipher it and this makes some sense. And going by the item name -> new glyph, it doesn't make that much sense with either immortal or will. Still, really amazing video! Before this I didn't even know this is GGG's alphabet (I'm fairly new, didn't play in Harbringer) I'd really love if you made a google doc like the first one, Maybe then the rest of this community could gather around and figure things out in case you missed anything. And well, it could just be fun. :D
@@KittenCatNoodle I do see the docx, but I meant an actual editable google doc so we could all write stuff there or at least comment our thoughts. I guess the old google doc could be used for that as well but I feel like your translation is a lot more refined. I skimmed through the previous doc and it was a lot less convincing. I guess we could just use that old one and add the new uniques in there, but I feel like that would be more work, and also breaking other people's work. Either way, it really depends on if you want to follow up on this or not, it's still fairly complete as is. Either way, much love to you
@@helleye311 I could upload a community version! That's a good idea. I think the old doc was imperative to me making any progress, but something more concise could be helpful
love the video! but it still feels weird for the harbingers to be related to the elder to me. they are just so thematically and visually different, and none of the lore directly related to the elder are in the harbinger language. obviously (and unfortunately) there is no real way to prove my theory against the idea though. i really hope we get a harbinger league 2 that can kind of be more definitive on all of this. the beachhead is really cool, but definitely seems like more of a precursor to something bigger than a proper "final ending" it does seem clear and undeniable that the poor harbingers were basically coming to wraeclast as refugees fleeing their "god" when given the first opportunity to do so. makes me feel bad for killing them
@@soulstealer5625 The thousand year truce has faltered, for the inscrutable ones have imprisoned their own God. Should they invade again, there will be no warning.
Pretty awesome! I only had a couple of thoughts. Every time I saw the word "divided" I thought of how the uniques/currencies are all divided but I don't know where to go with that idea. I also don't think the final name is Sirus but instead will be something in the next league because "harbingers" should be harbinging about something in the future. Maybe I just don't want anything to be about Sirus because I'm already sick of the new endgame and I want that story replaced. As for what to do next? How about "The Long Game of Sin" and just go full crackpot conspiracy theorist about how every single big of lore relates to and was caused by Sin and his incomprehensible master plan to have the best abs of all the gods?! or something. I dunno.
What if the JoJo stands of the Conquerors are Harbinger-like entities? Neither take damage directly and are killed when their units/conquerors are killed.
Comming here from 2024, interesting detail discovered with help of Wildwood Warlock - Small harbringres are constructs and big ones are Humanoids - do you think it means something?
azurite blue as har...? delve boses... how they get there? azurite everywhere you dig... harbingers mayb not escaping but going back? Niko?... givin us suphite tools for exchange in azurite... (not shure about harbinger nodes in mine tho)
fantastic work! your lore series are very informative and many times I find them useful in my work to refresh certain parts of story, or to learn some details which I missed
Racja Kamil. Przyznaj, że grudniowa aktualizacja (lub kolejna) będzie znów o atlasie i będzie kończyła lore w epilogue. Twój utwór z PoE 2, a dokładnie jego nazwa związana z "corruption" według mnie spoileruje dużo o tym jak to wszystko się skończy i potoczy dalej w PoE 2. Zaskoczyć mnie już w sumie mogą tylko szczegóły, czyli komu co i jak :P
Great to know that the composer himself keeps himself informed of the lore of PoE. It certainly empowers the soundtrack that you create for the game.
I've been looking over this for a while, and I think there may be something worth considering.
From a linguistic standpoint, it troubles me to assume that the permutation for "is/ being" in the new items relates to "old" and the permutation of "not" is "new".
What if the symbol you've assumed means "new" actually means "false" (an extension of not) and what you've assumed means "old" actually means "true/truth" (an extension of is/are).
This would change the last line of Yielding Mortality to "The false God is not the true God" and the last two lines of Surging Thoughts to "They will move to this false (assumed) imprisonment and will plan an attack, the false God is Sirus. This could tell of the events of the Elderslayers being assumed trapped in the Atlas, while at the same time planning their escape.
Admittedly, this changes the translation to a simple recounting of events that have already come to pass, rather than ones that have yet to, but the connotation of the symbols remains much more consistent in this case. Interestingly, this translation leaves some interesting room for interpretation in all this regarding Zana's role in the events that have transpired, and have yet to transpire.
For some real tinfoil hattery, we could instead assume the symbol for Sirus is actually the symbol for Zana, which thoroughly changes the narrative entirely. Yielding Mortality now tells of Zana's corruption. "God's body (physical form) has changed. God's mind has changed. The false God is not the true God." and Surging Thoughts tells off her and the Elderslayers. "The followers have been separated from their God/ the followers have separated from their God (her teachings). They are in a false prison and plan an attack. The false God is Zana."
This could just as well tell of the Elderslayers and Sirus, but it seems slightly more fitting that "Yielding Mortality" tells of Zana's inevitable corruption, rather than Sirus'.
Furthermore, if we take the symbol for "Wraeclast" to mean "Imagination" or "Dream World" (maps), all of the upgraded items become a thorough recounting of the Elderslayers escaping into their own minds (becoming obsessed with their power and the power of the Atlas), breaking free from Zana's guidance, splitting up into the corners of the Atlas, becoming reliant on their projections (as Sirus accuses), Zana and her power being shattered, her not being done in her pursuits, her power being neverending, the need for new followers (us), her becoming corrupted (her physical form changed) and her increasing irrationality, and finally the Elderslayers plotting their revenge from within the Atlas while Zana assumes them to be sealed away. This also changes the original translations to be a warning of the corruption of the Atlas and the excessive exploration of it. Even assuming the Harbingers do indeed worship The Elder, this seems a bit more fitting. Inverting the symbols for Maps and Wraeclast makes even more sense, whereby they warn of the potential for The Elder to rule over Wraeclast by way of the Maps and the Mind. The final line of The Messenger becomes a warning that "The portal to the maps/atlas/mind will bring destruction to Wraeclast/ the world."
I think this is a really interesting theory. I hope we can see more of the Harbingers, the linguistics of their items always has been fascinating to me.
AAAAAH i love this series, glad you are still doing it
This video bout to blow up more than it already has. Well deserved!
This series is for sure my favorite PoE content out there. Thank you so much! I never would have deciphered all of this on my own. I love the game, but they really want you to work for the story. Thank you!
Very good video, Noodle! I always enjoy these new lore videos.
I share your playlist with all my friends who play POE, because it’s awesome
This is awesome! Thanks for all the work you put in for this!
If you're looking for suggestions, I'd really appreciate a video regarding the increasingly believable theory that the world the player is in is an illusion. There are so many bits and pieces alluding to it and/or mirrors (of Kalandra/Delirium/Yugul/Halls of Mirrors) that I feel like an entire video bringing it all together could be both super educational and very enjoyable. And thank you as always!
Awesome idea! Just to clarify, do you think the illusion is a 4th wall situation? Is it different from the nightmare?
@@KittenCatNoodle I think it's related to the nightmare and hopefully isn't a fourth wall situation as I think that could take some of the gravity out of it.
@@_alex_y.not_ yeah, I've seen some people mention they think the "illusion" is that it is a game, and while there's definitely some meta comments (like the conquerors returning to the Atlas over and over) I think the illusion as the nightmare is more compelling. I'll look into it!
@@KittenCatNoodle It could also relate to the theory of the "mirror world" idea, that the world itself is endlessly repeating (similar to how it looks if you take 2 mirrors and face them together, aka the hall of mirrors effect). The "illusion" that characters mention could be the idea that the world's timeline is finite, aka it's events do not repeat, when through gameplay and the narrative we know otherwise, thus an "illusion" of a finite-timeline.
That does give me an answer to how GGG would let PoE 1 and 2 share an end-game, since time is not finite, that could mean the world exists "outside of time", which I think the Atlas has been regarded as before.
@@Agenta-df3gb Dominus does say: This world is an illusion, exile!
This is the really big work. Thank you for being with us c:
But if the elder is broken and there are 5 "pieces" on the symbol maybe each conqueror is posessed by a piece of the elder. And if all of them come together the cod is rejoined in a new form. I think this forshadows some future change of the endgame, where the three pieces rejoin and form a new boss.
Wouldn't be surprised if Sirus gets retired and this new 3-piece boss becomes the new main endgame chase boss and antagonist for PoE2.
That's a really cool idea!! That would make a lot of sense actually. They've taken his powers and developed them. They had become their own beings, apart from god and each other, but now they have an opportunity for even more power by uniting once more
@@KittenCatNoodle Im going off on a limb and hypothesizing that the Manifestations that the Elderslayers use in our fights are the same fragments of power the Elder imbued his guardians with, they even share similar themes. I would not be surprised if we see a new form of the Elder in poe 2, or an upcoming expansion. This theory would also explain why the madness affected the elderslayer way harder than Zana. Like a festering disease
@@KittenCatNoodle Also I would argue that the New god, is more in context that the Elder is now a force of decay, and is no longer their god who they imprisoned. Especially since there is the Mind has changed text, signaling that the Elder is no longer sane, and has more or less become a force of decay.
that's insane
oh my god, Harbinger is harbing the Elder, the league before! I started actively played since there and doesn't know much about that
love these series! keep em comming!
More lore videos, hell yeah :D
Harbingers raining pennies is now the only thing I can think about.
the symbol you suspect means [unite] could mean [defend]. the praying follower hands are gathered around a center, pointing outward.
Ive been waiting for someone to do a lore series. Thank you!
This might be relevant now.
Now to find out who "She" is!
@@KittenCatNoodle I honestly hope its Zana in some way
@@KittenCatNoodle www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/kerka6/probably_kitten_cat_noodle_youtuber_guessed/
Thanks Noodle, you're doing God's work, or rather an interdimensional being's work!
Woe me I had not rang that bell. Oh those eight months of videos I must now watch with attention.
Thank you, kitty prophet, for deciphering the arcanes of PoE lore that my poor soul, having never pushed a character past T4 maps, craves for
Going through all the old leagues and doing shorter snippets would be cool. Delve and breach would be cool. And synthesis because i think a lot of people missed a lot of the league even though it had a lot of lore and voice work in it
She touched on a lot of lore from Synthesis when she was explaining the Atlas
You're awesome noodles. We love you!
The secret goal of the Harbingers is to give the player base carpal tunnel syndrome with the currency fragments.
I like your theory.
The watcher's eye text says:
One by one, they stood their ground against a creature
they had no hope of understanding, let alone defeating,
and one by one, they became a part of it.
It could refer either to the conquerors, and how they got consumed by madness, but there is a chance it could it be that the symbol for "followers" is actually refering to the watchers of decay which that imprisoned the elder, and became "part of him" by taking his powers and becoming harbingers?
Another option is that the visions elder gave to Valdo when he first met him, showing him that the elder was actually a king and was betrayed, is not 100% a lie, and the harbingers were elder followers who collaborated with the watchers of decay, imprisoning him, and taking his powers to themselves.
May be is a mix of both.
Yes!! I was definitely considering this but wasn't so sure, because we don't know much about the watchers. They are presented as "people" who learned about the elder. But there are many, many years between the watchers beginning and them sealing the elder.
Maybe the harbingers weren't always these strange beings? Maybe they were people, the watchers, and they became harbingers through the elders powers? Maybe they split into 2 groups, those who followed and those who resisted/fought the elder?
It's honestly a great theory and I think you might be onto something
As far as I know, the text on Watchers eye refers to Watchers of Decay, pretty straightforward. But maybe it is deeper than seems
My theory has always been that the player is a (possibly broken) god. If the player is the one they worshipped and stole power from, then it would make sense that we're hunting and killing them while gaining levels and power.
I like the theory, hard to really prove something thats written in such a cryptic manner, but it seems like you've really put some time into this :) love the poe lore vids. please keep them coming
The amount of time you put into this is super impressive.
Its pretty insane that GGG puts this much time into lore and someone like myself who has played for years gets literally nothing out of the time they spent unless someone like yourself takes the time to decipher it.
Imagine if you take the 4 conquerors and elder all in the arena at the same time in the new league if he just completely ignored you and goes full ham on the 4 conquerors and then turns into his former self.. if the shaper is also present rather then fight the elder with you he sides with you after realising the new elder is far too powerful to be allowed to survive.
Cool video! I started getting really into the game with harbinger league, so I wanted to learn the lore, but I couldn't get past understanding the symbols. I had always assumed that the harbingers were harbingers of the elder, because he was introduced the league after; it wouldn't make sense for them to be harbingers of something that was already here, or wouldn't be here soon.
Honestly I hadn't even thought about what a "harbinger" means until I sat down to do this. So you were ahead of me on that!
You produce quality content.
I hope you will have the heart to hang on and keep going as patch 4.0 (PoE2) gets released.
Take care and be well.
I absolutely love your videos and your theories are so well researched and clever it's absolutely amazing!
I wonder if this time again, the harbingers are trying to warn us of something. Didn't Chris Wilson say something big was coming for the next extension?
I think choosing to name them "harbinger" means they must be "announcing" new things! I wonder if it's next league, an expansion, or poe 2?
Pretty sure Chris mentioned in the last Baeclast that they might alrdy give us a new endgame in the next league. It would be pretty cool if the Harbingers were referring to that.
Let's see where the next big expansion takes us
For me they are simply the smurfs that can catch these hands ... and that clutter my inv space
Why can't you just drop one whole loot like a normal monster you gosh dang gibberish smurfs!
awesome vid as always, noodles. -cronk
This video's is awesome with the new Echo's of the Atlas content! The harvest items could have been referring to the Maven, maybe she speaks in such broken English because her first language is Harbinger
i realized if your theory is true it could explain what sirus means when he says:
"Perhaps the suffering of my fellow citizens will finally stir something."
in 16:05 you are translated new items in to "God is seeking arcane power from the followers"
so maybe it's a hint as well.
anyway great theory
Perhaps Sirus’s desire to destroy comes from the elders desire for decay
Now that GGG has come out with spoilers about Harvest and Oshabi / The Grove, it would be interesting to have a video on Corruption as a force in the game. That or something about the Old Gods, especially the Grieving Mother and Arakali - unless you already made a video covering that.
now you can add Phd in Harbinger language to the resume :)
This is incredible!!!
Noodle: deciphers years old mystery of Harbinger's language
Me: Now investigate who is that Fled is dating these days.
:)
It has a crush on Rin...and I ship it
@@KittenCatNoodle interesting idea. In my mind they are best buddies with Tora and then slowly getting from there. :)
I think Tora is the only one who doesn't bully her and they both are kinda socially awkward.
Rin That Fled
It That Fled is obviously dating Vorici. Why else are they always together in Research?
Interesting theories, and fun to watch
If you are correct that could mean GGG could do a Harbinger 2.0 League.. hmm i would love that honestly.. like an "UBER" Sirus where you have to fight him and Harbingers :D
Awesome video!
I heard it confirmed somewhere that the antagonist of PoE2 is the Old Ezomyte god or gods and that this could be what is to come.
First Ones seem to be main antagonists of the new campaign of PoE2, but the endgame will be something different, and it will be the same for old and campaign as well
Given that GGG recently said that the next expansion would be "an Atlas expansion (like War or Conquerors)" , it seems that your theory is shaping up to very much be a possibility. Uber Sirus on the horizon?
Harbinger lore, heck yeah
Thanks!
Dude this is much better to watch after upcoming update teaser
Welp, it seems either 3.11 is Sirus (since GGG worked on PoE 3.0 much more time than on 3.11) or something upcoming in 3.14/PoE 2, since Maven (or what was her name again?) is not fiting for a new story.
@@ArturFlintchannel ye it felt like maven just want to play with us
I think we won't kill her in game we just going to "defeat" her and play with her again
My guess?
First of all, I am taking a bit of a leap in assuming that the 'Atlas of worlds', as an ever-shifting mess of pocket-dimensions, is distinct from 'world' in the 'fully formed planet in its own right' sense that the Breach-demon and Harbinger home-worlds seem to be.
Possibility A:
The god-nullifying effect of the beast somehow 'spilled over' into another world- not the Atlas, but an actual, physical planet somewhere out in the universe. This planet presumably had only a singular god to begin with, unlike the many competing cultural pantheons that exist on Wraeclast and the unnamed greater-world beyond its shores. The proto-Harbingers imprison their god and use its powers in a way analogous to how the Virtue Gems draw upon the sleeping Beast.
Possibility B:
Assuming a certain symbol does in fact mean 'map' instead of 'space', it is possible that one of the cultures of Wraeclast had a literal 'God of maps/cartography'- considering their seafaring nature, perhaps a minor enough Karui god to have never come up- who due to his particular sphere of authority was able to abuse a loophole and enter the Atlas with his followers without needing a map-device. After this, follow as with A. Perhaps he and his followers reached somewhere where time flowed more quickly, causing them to rapidly diverge form the rest of humanity both culturally and biologically.
I find it interesting to note: It is slightly ambiguous weather the Harbingers are *serving* their god by going to Wraeclast, or *fleeing* it.
I also don't understand the items they drop. They have no stats. Even holding Alt.
Wonder if they have anything to do with the beings like The Maven too then, since there are apparently more of beings like the Elder.
Really hope you make a video on The Maven once all info on her is out, I've only seen a bit of her, and I am excited to see more!
They could also be talking about something that happening the next league cause chris said that 1 going to be really interesting
I came here from Baited Expectations. Love this video
IDK if this was brought up but the names less god that spoke to the watchers... could that be a harbinger? They sensed weakness in their god (or captor) and used the opportunity to rally support against elder.
I'd love to see lore on Delve and the Azurite Mine if there is any.
Not unite perhaps.
That has a very peculiar design.
Its build like the old guardians in the atlas.
It's made like the x5 slot map device.
Unite may be part of it, but I think it's more "the parts unite" to one.
Like how the shaper/sacrifice/elder fragments "Unite into a map"
I think the God who knew of the elder was either Sin or "Familiar voice" Mr. Tang.
Sin hasn't indicated bad intent ever yet, just bad morals. He is able to divine information from a higher form. And he does oddly disappear it seems after Sirus.
Mr. Familiar(don't know his name) delerium effect looks straight up like decay. Perfidy looks like the pillars in the elders arena as does the other armor parts.
It fits in theme he would want to drive the mother crazy with knowledge of the elder. And we do know the Mr.Tang knows of stuff beyond wraeclast quite abit like how the world is "Chayula's dream"
Very glad I came and learned :) nice celestial cat in the video meow meow meow
holy shit this is good to know!!! Good job!!!!
Zana (z-AW-nuh)
Sirus (s-EAR-us)
This is very interesting, loving the videos!
I only have one idea on how to improve the translation of the new pieces.
And I feel like you were going in the right direction, but you skipped the very obvious thing.
God's body didn't become changed or yielding. It became mortal (Yielding Mortality)
The image even looks like a person. And people are mortal. Therefore I suggest that image means mortal, or in another contexts, human/person/man
I definitely also agree with sirus being that last glyph, it even looks like him with his weird throne thing behind his head.
Not sold on the Unite, but it's really hard to decipher it and this makes some sense. And going by the item name -> new glyph, it doesn't make that much sense with either immortal or will.
Still, really amazing video! Before this I didn't even know this is GGG's alphabet (I'm fairly new, didn't play in Harbringer)
I'd really love if you made a google doc like the first one, Maybe then the rest of this community could gather around and figure things out in case you missed anything. And well, it could just be fun. :D
I did! And I linked it in the description
@@KittenCatNoodle I do see the docx, but I meant an actual editable google doc so we could all write stuff there or at least comment our thoughts. I guess the old google doc could be used for that as well but I feel like your translation is a lot more refined. I skimmed through the previous doc and it was a lot less convincing. I guess we could just use that old one and add the new uniques in there, but I feel like that would be more work, and also breaking other people's work.
Either way, it really depends on if you want to follow up on this or not, it's still fairly complete as is. Either way, much love to you
@@helleye311 I could upload a community version! That's a good idea. I think the old doc was imperative to me making any progress, but something more concise could be helpful
love the video! but it still feels weird for the harbingers to be related to the elder to me. they are just so thematically and visually different, and none of the lore directly related to the elder are in the harbinger language. obviously (and unfortunately) there is no real way to prove my theory against the idea though. i really hope we get a harbinger league 2 that can kind of be more definitive on all of this. the beachhead is really cool, but definitely seems like more of a precursor to something bigger than a proper "final ending"
it does seem clear and undeniable that the poor harbingers were basically coming to wraeclast as refugees fleeing their "god" when given the first opportunity to do so. makes me feel bad for killing them
Maybe instead of Sirus, they referred to the Maven
It would also fit their otherwordly theme and the whole alien thing
Winged harbinger scarab says outright that harbingers have imprisoned their god.
Can you post the flavour text? I haven’t got any winged to check
@@soulstealer5625
The thousand year truce has faltered, for the inscrutable ones have imprisoned their own God.
Should they invade again, there will be no warning.
Тарас Дубинин thank you. So this imprisonment is after the first series of events? Imprisoned Sirus?
@@soulstealer5625 No, scarab stories are old stuff, the Order isn't around anymore when Sirus happens.
Sometimes master's quests r written in harbinger language, its not a bug right? xD
3.12 Harbinger 2.0? That'd be cool
who is that blue guy at the end
Wait a minute... The "is not symbol" in brackets? Could that be the "nullifier?" Have the beings in 3.17 been in GGG's mind ever since Harvest?
but we killed sirus, so how does that make sense? we also killed him in wraeclast not in atlas, so he can't just reappear
We've killed lots of things that reappear...
Pretty awesome! I only had a couple of thoughts. Every time I saw the word "divided" I thought of how the uniques/currencies are all divided but I don't know where to go with that idea. I also don't think the final name is Sirus but instead will be something in the next league because "harbingers" should be harbinging about something in the future. Maybe I just don't want anything to be about Sirus because I'm already sick of the new endgame and I want that story replaced. As for what to do next? How about "The Long Game of Sin" and just go full crackpot conspiracy theorist about how every single big of lore relates to and was caused by Sin and his incomprehensible master plan to have the best abs of all the gods?! or something. I dunno.
What if the JoJo stands of the Conquerors are Harbinger-like entities? Neither take damage directly and are killed when their units/conquerors are killed.
in a wierd Way the doom eternal: anchient gods story is exactly the first 4 mins of this video
Comming here from 2024, interesting detail discovered with help of Wildwood Warlock - Small harbringres are constructs and big ones are Humanoids - do you think it means something?
how do you propose to someone in harbinger language?
There's a problem that Harbringer Maps are not part of Atlas through while Elder is :)
epic series!
Awesome! Now how do you say swear words in this new language?
Challenge accepted, I'll figure some out
Wait... Maven?!?!?!?! Are the Harbingers related to the Maven?
Nice video nood :)
So this is not a Korean?
azurite blue as har...? delve boses... how they get there? azurite everywhere you dig... harbingers mayb not escaping but going back? Niko?... givin us suphite tools for exchange in azurite... (not shure about harbinger nodes in mine tho)
We now need answers and NEW video! Who is SHE?! Be our messenger
Are you a prophetess hahahaha.