So like many of you in SF6, I still am learning new stuff all the time. Today, I learned about JP's counter reversal move and well that lead the the creation of this video. Its a very, very silly move, and let me tell you the many ways why lol
All you have to do is block the follow up bomb. Literally thats all you have to do. Why do people create stupid videos like this without actually having to lab how to counter it.
@@dcode1000 too early to tell honestly; he's obviously a pretty bad guy, but I haven't had enough time with him to see how he compares in terms of Bison or Gil level threats. I actually kinda hope they do a world tour expansion down the line; and give us some more to do with him.
@@pockystyx4087 Assuming Rashid and the other DLC characters will be available in World Tour, I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually came out with an expansion come Year 2.
I missed my timing on my command grab as Lily and ended up scooping him right after the end of the animation. It seems like not mashing against him is the move here. Now the question is what would happen if I drive impact right after my hit gets countered, do you know?
Yep if it grabs giefs SPD, its recovery is slow enough that the projectiles just outright punish, meaning you got a juicy easy 30-45% damage combo coming up depending on the meter you wanna spend
As someone playing JP exclusively(and at pretty high rank at this point), I had the same initial impression. But the more I thought about it, comparing it Guile specifically(as they're both dedicated zoners), it just isn't that impressive. The safejump thing is the only real advantage. Because unlike Flash Kick there is no guaranteed damage. They can grab you, as was shown. Or they can just block. And even if they do get hit, a juggle isn't always guaranteed(like if they hit you and then got hit by the bomb). So much of the time this will offer zero damage. And it's not like Guile can't cancel into his level 3 from flash kick. Or it's not like Flash Kick doesn't give him a bunch of space, even when he uses it midscreen. Plus, the recovery is quite long even when successful. So you can, for example, jab on his wakeup. Trigger the counter, and then PUNISH COUNTER grab him during his recovery(before he can jump), which makes you safe from the projectiles. Where if you try and jab Guile when he's waking up with EX Flash Kick...good luck. Like the move is great when everything works for it. But the floor is sooooooo much lower and in some situations even when it "works" it's actively bad for JP. Where Guile unless he's completely called out by a block, gets guaranteed damage and space.
Fully agree. I don't play JP at all, but I don't think this move is particularly strong. The only nerf I would MAYBE be for would be the projectiles disappearing when he's hit. People dooming about this aren't thinking enough about what this move loses compared to a traditional reversal.
I main JP and here's a tip... you don't have to respect it at all for the first few frames as the balls take a while to form and actually hurt you. So, when it happens, it is NOT JP's turn. You can mash, then blocks. Or better, grab and once the grab animation is done the balls are gone.
@@CHRONIC2oo3 roofle covers that in the video. JP can still jump out of a grab attempt, so it's not guaranteed. I guess that's fine because then you can just block his jump in and the balls at the same time
Great vid showing what it's capable of, and I know you briefly mention it at the end but I think you should have included a full example of punishing the counter at the end. A bunch of folks are gonna tune out and miss out on how they need to be countering this. Just a simple empty jump off the Honda safe jump set up into a fat st.hp punish counter combo would have been nice 😂
Capcom: "JP doesn't feel enough like a final boss. Any ideas?" Devs: "What about a counter that's throw invulnerable? Or invincible? Or creates homing fireballs?" Capcom: "Yes."
Usually the gameplay is that you try to fight your way to the zoner and then the zoner tries to fight their way back out. I know it's still early, but JP having a frame 1 counter that creates space and pressure feels a little too good. He sort of reminds me of Seth from SF4 because his toolkit is so versatile, but without the drawback of no health. If I had to guess, JP has this move because of the Drive Rush mechanic allowing a lot of the cast to "easily" close the gap.
I think as people get better with the drive mechanics JP will be a little easier to deal with. He’s a good character but most of his kit is a lot of mu checks that people can adapt to and he can still get overwhelmed up close like any other zoner.
Guile also has a frame 1 counter that creates space as a zoner. He always has. People just wanna be mad at the new guy because he does it slightly differently.
@@NessOnett8 You’re just being disingenous. Guile does not have a counter - he has a reversal. Yes, Guile creates space, but his gameplay is very different to JP’s. Just because they both share the archetype of ‘Zoner’ doesn’t mean you can just throw Guile’s name in there and say ‘he does it slightly differently.’ Stop the cap. No he does not do it ‘SLIGHTLY’ differently. It’s weird that you’re trying to virtue signal how “not mad?” you are by claiming everybody else is. JP is a cool character. I’m sure most people agree too. Annoying? Yeah. Still cool though. But you are out of your mind to act like this reversal option is not overtuned.
There is an interesting bit that you show in the Honda part at 6:45, and that's that you're still +14F on hit. It's kind of like a promise that his turn is coming, but it is still actually your turn.
Its indeed your turn, but its just one of those things where you don't have the "big win" like against the shoryu that woulda just went through and you get the big punish, many things still are not guaranteed.
Definitely, but it might mean that characters like Manon could set up a decent safe jump and then potentially turn JPs only reversal into a 50/50 mixup in her favour? Just spitballing ideas here sensei
Between the great reversal on a zoner and the lingering projectiles, this is giving me smash vibes. I feel like the counterplay will end up being smash like too, where you need to respect him on wakeup due to the counter, but if he whiffs the counter while you're blocking you can blow him up with a punish counter corner combo.
Rushdown character has a very strong move: *crickets* Zoner or Grappler has a very strong move: Community in uproar, nerfs demanded within the first week.
Facts. The general fighting game audience thinks rushdown are the only "true" characters so zoners and grapplers are treated as the enemy. I hate getting SPD'd as much as the next guy but I will jump to a grappler's defense when rushdown players get upset at him
I don't know... i always liked zoner characters and have always been very forgiving of this kind of stuff, but as of right now, JP does feel more than a bit too good... Of course, that might change as we learn more about the game, but ATM, JP is the only character I feel is REALLY overtuned.
I really hope they don't end up nerfing this move, because it's such a cool concept for a reversal. The counter here is really obviously to bait it out, have JP waste 2 bars of Drive and punish him for it.
I think if 214 P projectiles disappear when JP is hit then the reversal ones should as well. Makes the scramble after the counter goes through interesting and less one sided. Regardless I like this move
I like the overall design but i don't like the Ex version being invincible fo grabs. I think him getting lvl 3s is sick and denying safejumps is a cool advantge to have for the drawbacks parries have as reversalas (mainly, losing an option for combos and not having the abikity to ounish an opponent for doing nothing: a dp will go through hits but it will also hit an oponent that is moving around, for example)
It's Massively OP. It doesn't follow any Conventional Alignment of SF History. Possibly even Broken. It's Very Interesting. It is 100% Completely amazing as a Special-Move. But seeing all the Nerfs from the 1st 3 Betas that they put on the other 8, for this to slide in the final version is Comical 😅. But it is what it is. As a Special-Move it is better than some whole Characters kits in the older Games
The fact JP's EX Counter works against even throws sounds a bit frightening for a grappler. Last I recall of a counter that works against throws like that is Hakumen's Astral Heat in BBTAG.
JP is even more messed up than an MK character. Quan Chi in MKX had disgusting mix and space control but literally barely had an anti-air, let alone a reversal. Even his get-off-me pokes weren’t as good as most. Once you got in he was actually in trouble. Playing JP, you’re comfortable at all ranges. Also having the down down input means you can’t even hope you might mess up his inputs by crossing up.
JP and Blanka have insane safe moves, I havent seen anybody use this move on ranked (yeah im not that high) but they dont need it, its almost imposible to get close to a good JP already,
I´m playing with my son and he tends to main JP, and this move made my life really hard. I thought was just my poor skill, but, after watching this video, yes the move is all that great. He´ll love to learn that, thanks!
Yeah I haven't even had to deal with that reversal yet. But yeah that does look crazy powerful. It does look like there is a decent sized window after the reversal so I'll have to see what types of attacks I can get during that window to know how good this is. It might end up being something I just have my one go to reaction ready for it.
I started JP 2 weeks ago or so. I skipped SF5 but played alot of SF2 back int he day. Did JP trainigh. Went straight to ranked an destroyed and dmeolished very hard all the way to gold very fast. Finally now, getitng wrecked quite often. Getting stuck in corner or that straight up jump atack in my face u showed off. I forgot about this counter attack move and have not been using it! I keep getting stuck only in one repeating way every time, if they get close and corner punish, I was unable to figure out how to get out. But with this counter, it was exactly what I will nbeed. But I forgot I had it, and did notm, know the ins and outs of how awesome it is especially the OD version and counters comand gfrabs! Holy crap. Gona run online now I bet I win alot more now. Almost 1000 points gold ranked from maybe 8 to 10 hours of doing JP ranked.
by the way you can also mix up your opponent with it if you jump over your opponent head while the orb going to hit you he is put on a cross up situation. JP is so much a MK character that even SonicFOx is playing him
I've fighted against a few counter-happy JPs already, and using Tekken's Lei Wulong teachings of simply not doing what's predictable have worked every time. Most successful strat is just to feint an attack or movement, wait instead for the counter to kick and punish as soon as it begins to recover. Both Blanka and Jamie have worked quite well against him, although I'm clearly not yet in the advanced group. Gief throw game is many times more scary and hard to defend for me.
Its good that you showed this against zangief who also happens to have a parry. Its honestly baffling how these 2 moves managed to be in the same game, its like night and day in terms of how good JPs parry is compared to Zangiefs.
I kinda like how this game has *so much* brawlic stuff- i think every character has one thing thats the most disgusting thing ever, and i want to see where it all goes.
Problem is His combos are also very good...but damn JP can zone like crazy too...& projectiles are fast plus theres those setup projectiles too that blow up slowly...hes too much work to get in but when you get close he can just fight like any other character?
Actually, I've found it hits you out of special move animations too. I remember getting knocked out of Jamie's 623K during the animation. So invincibility out of throws might be the exception not the rule
JP is frustrating as hell to play against (my training partner currently plays him), but his reversal is something that I think people are over-hyping, at least from what I've found from labbing against him. 1. Zoners often have some of the BEST reversals in their respective games. Even in Street Fighter, Guile is the premier zoner and he has flash kick. 2. They seem to be normalising reversals across the board, so why would JP's reversal not counter throws? All other OD reversals in the game do. 3. Does it matter that his orbs don't disappear after he's hit? It does no guaranteed damage on its own. And using lights to meaty him will still leave the opponent plus even if the reversal lands. 4. With the above point in mind, you'll notice that Honda may not be able to safe jump, but he still ends up VERY plus. 5. It doesn't really matter that the orbs force you to give up your turn since you'd lose your turn after getting hit by a traditional reversal anyway.
jp can not command grab during this reversal or teleport set up . the opponent can just parry the hits in mid screen with jp not being able to do anything. mid screen jp reversal - opponent back dash parry for a second and react with block or jump against jps now available command grab. the move seems good but in game its a case of doing it with very little reward.
Its not that much different than fighting someone with a good dp. You have to respect that option just the same. And just like a dp you can punish it very hard if they do it wrong.
I like to play rushdown characters, specifically Cammy in this game, so I absolutely hate this move. There's nothing worse than finally getting in on a zoner but not being allowed to go ham with your pressure. Even so, I don't think its too outlandish for JP to have this as much as I hate it. The only thing that does seem a bit much is the fact that the projectiles don't disappear if you hit JP. That just seems fundamentally weird and shouldn't be ok imo. If they change that then I think this move is fine.
Zoners should not get free 'get off me' moves. I mean, JP counter isn't a Cetrion teleport or guaranteed damage, but there should be a reward for people getting in on zoners, not the fear of a complete reset.
One thing you didn't mention is that there are downsides to this counter (which I don't think make up for this huge potential, but just worth pointing out). Depending on the move you used to trigger the counter, you still have the ability to save yourself/act, which is different from a typical reversal where if you committed to a non safe jump-esque button, you're eating the reversal and losing your aggression. With JP's, you can actually still be aggressive depending on the button you used, which I think is cool. You can try to DI to absorb the projectiles, grab or quick combo into level 3 if you think JP to avoid them through cinematic, parry, or even just block them. That said, I do think this move may get nerfed to either A: Have the projectiles disappear if JP is hit, or B: Scale the followup damage heavily, similar to how throw combos are scaled. We'll have to wait and see.
Jp looks fun but some characters that mostly I am maining more are chun li and ken I found their combos much easier. But looking forward to try learn guile and deejay cause their hard to master especially when you connect speaking for guile his sonic hurricane you just have to hold back and then forward triangle and circle at the same time cause I'm using modern controls. but yeah practice makes perfect. I just have to spend more hours deliver combos and try to count the drive rush at the right sequence to extend hard punish combos.
BEWARE: Giant wall of text I've only played Kimberly, and I suspect its a lot more painful for less swift individuals. Certainly that JP has options for how they want to use it is strong, but I don't think it exceeds other characters' reversals - Its just different. Additionally, you as the defender (uniquely) also get options for how you want to deal with it, which I find makes a tense and engaging game-state for both people. That said, because its unique, I think it starts as a rather mean matchup knowledge check for many people. Definitely JP gets the advantage, but I think its a side-grade to other EX reversals. Better opportunity when punishing long duration moves, but possibility of getting nothing or countered if it triggers off of something fast. *Comparison to EX DP because metered reversal is the best classification for JP EX counter-move IMO.* 1) Successful DP always results in damage AND space, while JP will be limited to the initial pushback if he chooses to meaningfully attack. 2) DP damage is immediate, while JP's damage can be easily reaction blocked or parried. Unless they throw for similar damage to DP. 3) DP is immediate, while JP choosing to use the projectiles for pressure is still at risk of enemy retaliation. See below. 4) Guile can combo from reversals into Super in some cases, this isn't unique to JP's EX reversal. Maybe its easier for JP? IDK. But the option is at least available to others. *Options I have found, with Pros/Cons. Note that you can act before, between and after the projectiles depending on what you choose and how JP is acting.* + Just block. Risk Throws (less damage than other EX DPs). Risk Mixups. Loss of Drive during defence. + Parry. Risk Throws (slightly more than EX DP). Safely ignore Mixups. Possibly Drive positive, seems at least neutral. + Perfect Parry Fishing. Risk Throws as above. Risk being punished. Possibility to have very reactable opening to use another option with almost-guaranteed success. Probably drive negative. I haven't tried spamming parry. But the projectile timing could absolutely be learned by more dedicated people. + Throw JP. Risk being punished. Possibility of dealing damage and returning to your advantage. Throw animation protects you from projectiles. + Reversal (including Supers). Risk being punished. Possibility of BIG damage and returning to your advantage. I-Frames protect you from projectiles. + Poke/Jab. Risk being punished. Possibility of reducing enemy JP offensive options, maybe even dealing damage. Careful timing (and fast buttons) can interrupt between projectiles safely. + Sweep. Risk being punished. Success is a close but disadvantageous trade, BUT, both players are KD and it stops the JP doing what they want. + Drive Impact. Risk being punished or thrown. Possibility to get a combo of your own. As long as you haven't been hit, you can use this between projectiles, especially if you see JP committing to a non-cancellable attack. Character specific armour also may work. + Jump, or movement. Extreme risk. I use it with JP in the corner sometimes to limit the damage I take for whiffing risky openers and have the projectiles put me back on the outside of JP to keep them trapped. If the JP knows Drive Rush combos you're dead. If not, similar to sweep, one can shut down enemy options with a slightly disadvantageous trade, since certain spacings will make it impossible to juggle with the ground spike. Certainly that JP has options for how they want to use it is strong, but I don't think it exceeds other reversal options. Its just different. Additionally, you as the defender (uniquely) also get options for how you want to deal with it. That said, because its unique, I think it starts as a rather mean matchup knowledge check for many people EDIT: Formatting
After playing as jp for a lil bit(tryin to find my main) n yah i now understand why hes being labeled as a mortal kombat character… hes a big scary monster n im here for it😂
Just one note: projectiles never die when the owner gets hit, right?.. So I didn't quite get that part. Hit Ryu with an Akuma air hadoken while he does a ground hadoken and ryu gets hit and Akuma may still fall and get hurt by the hadoken. So the projectiles remaining when JP gets hit seems totally normal to me. If you do not see it as a projectile same thing: Kimberly's can and Blanka's chan doll also remain when their owner gets hit.
Yeah, but I think people expect it because there's a precendent on these sort of "countdown" moves that are guaranteed to hit your character that if you hit the enemy, the countdown ends. See: Gen's Dim Mak move where you get hit 10 seconds later in Alpha and Leona's (delayed) earring bomb in KOFXV. The move is nullified if you hit either of them.
FYI, if this move connects on meaty throw, JP is +8. That gives JP a guaranteed punish counter throw. This makes it extremely broken when JP is cornered. Basically, if this move connects on ANYTHING, it will give JP a guarantee a corner escape and/or a mixup. This move is way too good for a zooner.
Some of the properties of the move seem a little over tuned, it will probably be nerfed eventually. In particular I think the ex should either not be frame one, or only be strike invul. Since I don't play the character I wouldn't mind if they nerfed it way more than that, but I don't think taking away such a cool move would really be fun.
I mean, as someone who hasn’t touched JP but has fought several of them, the answer to it is really simple. People just need to stop being so mash happy for a fraction of a second. If the counter doesn’t get triggered, JP eats a full combo of your choosing. People don’t need to be able to grab counters, they need to stop thinking they should always be pressing buttons. The point of a counter is to punish that. Fighting JP is all about patience, this move is no different than the rest of his toolkit in that regard, one of his moves not being beaten by throws (which he has to expend 2 bars of his Overdrive Gauge to even attempt by the way) really isn’t that bad. From my experience, his counter more often than not ends up backfiring, since he’s so ridiculously open if you don’t hit it during its active frames.
If he was just a boss at the end of the game this would be fine. His projectile command grab needs to go. Its like all the MK 11 boss chracters rolled into 1
But here's a question I wanna know that wasn't answered in this video. Those orbs, do their hits count as Strike or Projectile? Give has a lot of ways to be Projectile invincible.
I wanted to play JP but seeing how dominant he is right now kind of put me off, i think the character is gonna get hit hard and i'd rather play a more stable character to start out.
The move is perfectly fine and should remain good however i do think its fucked up it doesnt disapear if you hit him after they are on you since he is safe and shouldnt get hit in the first place. If they have to change something id be ok with that part falling in line with most of his other tools. The ex version absolutely should still counter everything though, this is a DP/flash kick and it should remain so. Bait it out.
I find stuff like this fun and cool, but since SF6 doesn't use health/stun values anymore for balancing, it will be a nightmare to balance stuff like this I think. We'll see I guess but rn I'll take fun stuff over boring balance any day!!
I'm a Jp main as well and I approve this move but what would make it better is if the bomb exploded after the counter let the ex be the one to explode something hope capcom is listening
The same way capcom was selling Luke as the new protagonist of Street Fighter by having him dominate SFV, they are hyping up JP as the new final boss M.Bison by making him broken now.
So like many of you in SF6, I still am learning new stuff all the time. Today, I learned about JP's counter reversal move and well that lead the the creation of this video. Its a very, very silly move, and let me tell you the many ways why lol
So when are you and Lord Knight going ham discussing this move?
Thank you for another video!
Marisa Gladius is even more Broken...
All you have to do is block the follow up bomb. Literally thats all you have to do. Why do people create stupid videos like this without actually having to lab how to counter it.
Its an invincible reversal that literally doesn't lead to a knockdown unless you DON"T HOLD BACK.
"You can even get a level 3 off of "
Immediately after that.. "Now let's get into the nutty stuff"
JP really living up to his boss character status lol
Kinda funny because his actually fight in world tour wasn't that hard
@@chidaluokoro9104 yeah, the fight before it was actually a little more tough, if only for the gimmick lol
as far as how he fits in the story, what do you think of him(JP) compared to bison or gill?
@@dcode1000 too early to tell honestly; he's obviously a pretty bad guy, but I haven't had enough time with him to see how he compares in terms of Bison or Gil level threats.
I actually kinda hope they do a world tour expansion down the line; and give us some more to do with him.
@@pockystyx4087 Assuming Rashid and the other DLC characters will be available in World Tour, I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually came out with an expansion come Year 2.
The fact that it counters throws is absolutely crazy
Luke used to have something like this in SFV iirc, tho he doesn't anymore in SF6 it seems? a move that counters throws
@@tedjomuljono3052 Luke's wasn't a counter. It was a normal that evades throws just like a lot of normals
Why? We had invincible EX SPD's that a shit ton of damage, we had invincible meterless wakeups, this is just a reversal, but it's a really good one.
ikr
As a JP main, I find this move 100% balanced and fair.
I missed my timing on my command grab as Lily and ended up scooping him right after the end of the animation. It seems like not mashing against him is the move here. Now the question is what would happen if I drive impact right after my hit gets countered, do you know?
@Mr Blooper It will absorb the explosions, but JP is free to act so he can DI back
True
Rude, dude!
Ur gonna get NERFED!
And naturally as always, lots more Street Fighter 6 videos to come! And its getting very, very close to Mortal Kombat 1 time, tomorrow in fact!
btw did you play Guilry Gear Xrd & ACPR ?
The fact you can also get true punishes ala Jin's parry from tekken afterwards is really good as well
Yep if it grabs giefs SPD, its recovery is slow enough that the projectiles just outright punish, meaning you got a juicy easy 30-45% damage combo coming up depending on the meter you wanna spend
As someone playing JP exclusively(and at pretty high rank at this point), I had the same initial impression. But the more I thought about it, comparing it Guile specifically(as they're both dedicated zoners), it just isn't that impressive. The safejump thing is the only real advantage. Because unlike Flash Kick there is no guaranteed damage. They can grab you, as was shown. Or they can just block. And even if they do get hit, a juggle isn't always guaranteed(like if they hit you and then got hit by the bomb). So much of the time this will offer zero damage. And it's not like Guile can't cancel into his level 3 from flash kick. Or it's not like Flash Kick doesn't give him a bunch of space, even when he uses it midscreen.
Plus, the recovery is quite long even when successful. So you can, for example, jab on his wakeup. Trigger the counter, and then PUNISH COUNTER grab him during his recovery(before he can jump), which makes you safe from the projectiles. Where if you try and jab Guile when he's waking up with EX Flash Kick...good luck.
Like the move is great when everything works for it. But the floor is sooooooo much lower and in some situations even when it "works" it's actively bad for JP. Where Guile unless he's completely called out by a block, gets guaranteed damage and space.
Hahahahahahaha
Fully agree. I don't play JP at all, but I don't think this move is particularly strong. The only nerf I would MAYBE be for would be the projectiles disappearing when he's hit. People dooming about this aren't thinking enough about what this move loses compared to a traditional reversal.
This video captures the essence of people that didn't pay $60 to block.
I have a friend who is maining JP and the ex version of it working on grabs is redic! As a manon main myself, it was a very rude discovery!
I main JP and here's a tip... you don't have to respect it at all for the first few frames as the balls take a while to form and actually hurt you. So, when it happens, it is NOT JP's turn. You can mash, then blocks. Or better, grab and once the grab animation is done the balls are gone.
@@CHRONIC2oo3 roofle covers that in the video. JP can still jump out of a grab attempt, so it's not guaranteed. I guess that's fine because then you can just block his jump in and the balls at the same time
Great vid showing what it's capable of, and I know you briefly mention it at the end but I think you should have included a full example of punishing the counter at the end.
A bunch of folks are gonna tune out and miss out on how they need to be countering this. Just a simple empty jump off the Honda safe jump set up into a fat st.hp punish counter combo would have been nice 😂
I can’t believe that Capcom gave JP a special defense move… named amnesia.
JP used Amnesia
SPC.DF sharply rose!
Hahaha, i know what you did there. Too bad this isnt gen 1 amnesia
Capcom: "JP doesn't feel enough like a final boss. Any ideas?"
Devs: "What about a counter that's throw invulnerable? Or invincible? Or creates homing fireballs?"
Capcom: "Yes."
Something you didn’t point out that’s really funny: JP can throw you while the orbs are hovering to get a combo.
Usually the gameplay is that you try to fight your way to the zoner and then the zoner tries to fight their way back out. I know it's still early, but JP having a frame 1 counter that creates space and pressure feels a little too good. He sort of reminds me of Seth from SF4 because his toolkit is so versatile, but without the drawback of no health. If I had to guess, JP has this move because of the Drive Rush mechanic allowing a lot of the cast to "easily" close the gap.
I think as people get better with the drive mechanics JP will be a little easier to deal with. He’s a good character but most of his kit is a lot of mu checks that people can adapt to and he can still get overwhelmed up close like any other zoner.
@@kingoftheseas9991 "just parry/DI" seems to be the answer to a lot of "this character is too good" woes. I hope that's a good thing...
Guile also has a frame 1 counter that creates space as a zoner. He always has. People just wanna be mad at the new guy because he does it slightly differently.
@@NessOnett8 Not a counter, and blockable move
@@NessOnett8 You’re just being disingenous. Guile does not have a counter - he has a reversal. Yes, Guile creates space, but his gameplay is very different to JP’s. Just because they both share the archetype of ‘Zoner’ doesn’t mean you can just throw Guile’s name in there and say ‘he does it slightly differently.’ Stop the cap. No he does not do it ‘SLIGHTLY’ differently.
It’s weird that you’re trying to virtue signal how “not mad?” you are by claiming everybody else is. JP is a cool character. I’m sure most people agree too. Annoying? Yeah. Still cool though. But you are out of your mind to act like this reversal option is not overtuned.
There is an interesting bit that you show in the Honda part at 6:45, and that's that you're still +14F on hit. It's kind of like a promise that his turn is coming, but it is still actually your turn.
Its indeed your turn, but its just one of those things where you don't have the "big win" like against the shoryu that woulda just went through and you get the big punish, many things still are not guaranteed.
Definitely, but it might mean that characters like Manon could set up a decent safe jump and then potentially turn JPs only reversal into a 50/50 mixup in her favour? Just spitballing ideas here sensei
Between the great reversal on a zoner and the lingering projectiles, this is giving me smash vibes. I feel like the counterplay will end up being smash like too, where you need to respect him on wakeup due to the counter, but if he whiffs the counter while you're blocking you can blow him up with a punish counter corner combo.
Marissa's Gladius blows through that I did it on accident
If JP gets his counter, I can only hope that Axl gets his back too.
Love watching your videos, Started learning during dbfz and that helped me pick up sf6 which you're now doing! Which is so awesome.
its the best counter move i've ever seen in a fighting game since old Baiken malarkey
Rushdown character has a very strong move: *crickets*
Zoner or Grappler has a very strong move: Community in uproar, nerfs demanded within the first week.
Facts. The general fighting game audience thinks rushdown are the only "true" characters so zoners and grapplers are treated as the enemy. I hate getting SPD'd as much as the next guy but I will jump to a grappler's defense when rushdown players get upset at him
I don't know... i always liked zoner characters and have always been very forgiving of this kind of stuff, but as of right now, JP does feel more than a bit too good... Of course, that might change as we learn more about the game, but ATM, JP is the only character I feel is REALLY overtuned.
@@sladevalenyou are the enemies
@@cikciao likewise
12 of the top 100 players are jp players more then any other characters..
Thats kinda disgusting your only option is to wait. A zoner in the corner shouldn't get that level of defense imo.
He isn't a zoner he's a long ranged rushdown :)
That thumbnail is hilarious! I can't tell if Zangief is in the middle of a dropkick or being tossed away while doing jazz hands.
Zangief's reaction using level 3 into it sums it all up perfectly:
"ARE YOU SERIOUS!!"
His zoning and disjointed combos really feel like a blazblue character to me so far. He has such insane tools, and this counter is just silly good.
This might be the only move that I genuinely think is to strong, at the very least it shouldn’t counter throws
It's over rated. He is negative after he counters most lights.
I really hope they don't end up nerfing this move, because it's such a cool concept for a reversal.
The counter here is really obviously to bait it out, have JP waste 2 bars of Drive and punish him for it.
This is the second coming of "TRY SOMETHING"
I think if 214 P projectiles disappear when JP is hit then the reversal ones should as well. Makes the scramble after the counter goes through interesting and less one sided. Regardless I like this move
I like the overall design but i don't like the Ex version being invincible fo grabs. I think him getting lvl 3s is sick and denying safejumps is a cool advantge to have for the drawbacks parries have as reversalas (mainly, losing an option for combos and not having the abikity to ounish an opponent for doing nothing: a dp will go through hits but it will also hit an oponent that is moving around, for example)
why in god's name is it immune to grabs
I like "4K ultra HD" sign and the fact that i am watching it in 144p. 😎
It's Massively OP.
It doesn't follow any Conventional Alignment of SF History. Possibly even Broken.
It's Very Interesting. It is 100% Completely amazing as a Special-Move. But seeing all the Nerfs from the 1st 3 Betas that they put on the other 8, for this to slide in the final version is Comical 😅. But it is what it is. As a Special-Move it is better than some whole Characters kits in the older Games
just got into SF6, this character is literally the only one im 0% against lol
The fact JP's EX Counter works against even throws sounds a bit frightening for a grappler. Last I recall of a counter that works against throws like that is Hakumen's Astral Heat in BBTAG.
Gigachad JP putting you in a mixup during his own wake-up
Good explanations 👍
He reminds me of Possessed Kenshi
I like how JP stands like Scrooge mcduck 😂
JP is even more messed up than an MK character. Quan Chi in MKX had disgusting mix and space control but literally barely had an anti-air, let alone a reversal. Even his get-off-me pokes weren’t as good as most. Once you got in he was actually in trouble. Playing JP, you’re comfortable at all ranges. Also having the down down input means you can’t even hope you might mess up his inputs by crossing up.
JP and Blanka have insane safe moves, I havent seen anybody use this move on ranked (yeah im not that high) but they dont need it, its almost imposible to get close to a good JP already,
Sonicfox has been running FT10’s with really amazing players, check them out cause Sonic’s JP is pretty nuts
At this point the first guest character in MK1 should be JP like why not
It doesn't best fireballs which makes it *a little* better. Gotta test the usefulness of meaty fireball.
I´m playing with my son and he tends to main JP, and this move made my life really hard. I thought was just my poor skill, but, after watching this video, yes the move is all that great. He´ll love to learn that, thanks!
Yeah I haven't even had to deal with that reversal yet. But yeah that does look crazy powerful.
It does look like there is a decent sized window after the reversal so I'll have to see what types of attacks I can get during that window to know how good this is. It might end up being something I just have my one go to reaction ready for it.
IT COUNTERS THROWS TOO??! Bruh what
Finally a decent counter. Usually counter are bottom tier moves, but a counter grab is actually pretty awesome.
Crutch
I started JP 2 weeks ago or so. I skipped SF5 but played alot of SF2 back int he day. Did JP trainigh. Went straight to ranked an destroyed and dmeolished very hard all the way to gold very fast. Finally now, getitng wrecked quite often. Getting stuck in corner or that straight up jump atack in my face u showed off. I forgot about this counter attack move and have not been using it! I keep getting stuck only in one repeating way every time, if they get close and corner punish, I was unable to figure out how to get out. But with this counter, it was exactly what I will nbeed. But I forgot I had it, and did notm, know the ins and outs of how awesome it is especially the OD version and counters comand gfrabs! Holy crap. Gona run online now I bet I win alot more now. Almost 1000 points gold ranked from maybe 8 to 10 hours of doing JP ranked.
by the way you can also mix up your opponent with it if you jump over your opponent head while the orb going to hit you he is put on a cross up situation. JP is so much a MK character that even SonicFOx is playing him
I've fighted against a few counter-happy JPs already, and using Tekken's Lei Wulong teachings of simply not doing what's predictable have worked every time. Most successful strat is just to feint an attack or movement, wait instead for the counter to kick and punish as soon as it begins to recover. Both Blanka and Jamie have worked quite well against him, although I'm clearly not yet in the advanced group. Gief throw game is many times more scary and hard to defend for me.
Its good that you showed this against zangief who also happens to have a parry. Its honestly baffling how these 2 moves managed to be in the same game, its like night and day in terms of how good JPs parry is compared to Zangiefs.
Buff zangief's!
I kinda like how this game has *so much* brawlic stuff- i think every character has one thing thats the most disgusting thing ever, and i want to see where it all goes.
JP has some serious Omega Rugal vibes
Problem is His combos are also very good...but damn JP can zone like crazy too...& projectiles are fast plus theres those setup projectiles too that blow up slowly...hes too much work to get in but when you get close he can just fight like any other character?
this is terrifying
something weird that i was seeing on the counter it that sometimes its not frame one and the enemy can hit you but sometimes it does work as frame 1
Actually, I've found it hits you out of special move animations too. I remember getting knocked out of Jamie's 623K during the animation. So invincibility out of throws might be the exception not the rule
Funny I immediately thought of mortal Kombat playing jp too. Somewhere between noob saibot and kenshi and shang tsung
I had no idea the EX version of this was frame 1. I’ve hard a hard time using the regular move. Definitely need to take advantage of that
JP is frustrating as hell to play against (my training partner currently plays him), but his reversal is something that I think people are over-hyping, at least from what I've found from labbing against him.
1. Zoners often have some of the BEST reversals in their respective games. Even in Street Fighter, Guile is the premier zoner and he has flash kick.
2. They seem to be normalising reversals across the board, so why would JP's reversal not counter throws? All other OD reversals in the game do.
3. Does it matter that his orbs don't disappear after he's hit? It does no guaranteed damage on its own. And using lights to meaty him will still leave the opponent plus even if the reversal lands.
4. With the above point in mind, you'll notice that Honda may not be able to safe jump, but he still ends up VERY plus.
5. It doesn't really matter that the orbs force you to give up your turn since you'd lose your turn after getting hit by a traditional reversal anyway.
jp can not command grab during this reversal or teleport set up . the opponent can just parry the hits in mid screen with jp not being able to do anything.
mid screen jp reversal - opponent back dash parry for a second and react with block or jump against jps now available command grab. the move seems good but in game its a case of doing it with very little reward.
Yeah, I don’t know how that move got through testing. It goes against most rules of fighting games.
If you beat me with JP… I’m not shaking your hand.
Its not that much different than fighting someone with a good dp. You have to respect that option just the same. And just like a dp you can punish it very hard if they do it wrong.
Exactly, only difference is that safe jumps don't work but jp parry doesn't guarantee any damage even if it hits.
@@LLL74123 100% correct.
I like to play rushdown characters, specifically Cammy in this game, so I absolutely hate this move. There's nothing worse than finally getting in on a zoner but not being allowed to go ham with your pressure. Even so, I don't think its too outlandish for JP to have this as much as I hate it. The only thing that does seem a bit much is the fact that the projectiles don't disappear if you hit JP. That just seems fundamentally weird and shouldn't be ok imo. If they change that then I think this move is fine.
Jesus Christ, it's Jiren all over again. TRY SOMETHING!!!!
The orbs should AT LEAST scale whatever combos he gets out of them way way harder. Perfect Parry levels of scaling I mean
Zoners should not get free 'get off me' moves. I mean, JP counter isn't a Cetrion teleport or guaranteed damage, but there should be a reward for people getting in on zoners, not the fear of a complete reset.
W/e grapplers and rushdown are pushing out whizz in all game with super speed and cracked game mechanics. Having a super strong counter is valid
Good players are gonna bait the hell out of this move. Also this is literally all he has for defense.
its literally all he needs as well, a zoner couldn't possibly ask for more
One thing you didn't mention is that there are downsides to this counter (which I don't think make up for this huge potential, but just worth pointing out). Depending on the move you used to trigger the counter, you still have the ability to save yourself/act, which is different from a typical reversal where if you committed to a non safe jump-esque button, you're eating the reversal and losing your aggression. With JP's, you can actually still be aggressive depending on the button you used, which I think is cool. You can try to DI to absorb the projectiles, grab or quick combo into level 3 if you think JP to avoid them through cinematic, parry, or even just block them.
That said, I do think this move may get nerfed to either A: Have the projectiles disappear if JP is hit, or B: Scale the followup damage heavily, similar to how throw combos are scaled. We'll have to wait and see.
Jp looks fun but some characters that mostly I am maining more are chun li and ken I found their combos much easier. But looking forward to try learn guile and deejay cause their hard to master especially when you connect speaking for guile his sonic hurricane you just have to hold back and then forward triangle and circle at the same time cause I'm using modern controls. but yeah practice makes perfect. I just have to spend more hours deliver combos and try to count the drive rush at the right sequence to extend hard punish combos.
Im 50/50 between fair and broken. It really depends on the amount of damage you can squeeze out of baiting it, and how easy it is to punish.
Someone at capcom definitely mained Jiren
If hitting JP didn't erase his PJ (PsychoJunk XD ) it would be Combo Breaking *everything*...
BEWARE: Giant wall of text
I've only played Kimberly, and I suspect its a lot more painful for less swift individuals.
Certainly that JP has options for how they want to use it is strong, but I don't think it exceeds other characters' reversals - Its just different. Additionally, you as the defender (uniquely) also get options for how you want to deal with it, which I find makes a tense and engaging game-state for both people. That said, because its unique, I think it starts as a rather mean matchup knowledge check for many people. Definitely JP gets the advantage, but I think its a side-grade to other EX reversals. Better opportunity when punishing long duration moves, but possibility of getting nothing or countered if it triggers off of something fast.
*Comparison to EX DP because metered reversal is the best classification for JP EX counter-move IMO.*
1) Successful DP always results in damage AND space, while JP will be limited to the initial pushback if he chooses to meaningfully attack.
2) DP damage is immediate, while JP's damage can be easily reaction blocked or parried. Unless they throw for similar damage to DP.
3) DP is immediate, while JP choosing to use the projectiles for pressure is still at risk of enemy retaliation. See below.
4) Guile can combo from reversals into Super in some cases, this isn't unique to JP's EX reversal. Maybe its easier for JP? IDK. But the option is at least available to others.
*Options I have found, with Pros/Cons. Note that you can act before, between and after the projectiles depending on what you choose and how JP is acting.*
+ Just block. Risk Throws (less damage than other EX DPs). Risk Mixups. Loss of Drive during defence.
+ Parry. Risk Throws (slightly more than EX DP). Safely ignore Mixups. Possibly Drive positive, seems at least neutral.
+ Perfect Parry Fishing. Risk Throws as above. Risk being punished. Possibility to have very reactable opening to use another option with almost-guaranteed success. Probably drive negative. I haven't tried spamming parry. But the projectile timing could absolutely be learned by more dedicated people.
+ Throw JP. Risk being punished. Possibility of dealing damage and returning to your advantage. Throw animation protects you from projectiles.
+ Reversal (including Supers). Risk being punished. Possibility of BIG damage and returning to your advantage. I-Frames protect you from projectiles.
+ Poke/Jab. Risk being punished. Possibility of reducing enemy JP offensive options, maybe even dealing damage. Careful timing (and fast buttons) can interrupt between projectiles safely.
+ Sweep. Risk being punished. Success is a close but disadvantageous trade, BUT, both players are KD and it stops the JP doing what they want.
+ Drive Impact. Risk being punished or thrown. Possibility to get a combo of your own. As long as you haven't been hit, you can use this between projectiles, especially if you see JP committing to a non-cancellable attack. Character specific armour also may work.
+ Jump, or movement. Extreme risk. I use it with JP in the corner sometimes to limit the damage I take for whiffing risky openers and have the projectiles put me back on the outside of JP to keep them trapped. If the JP knows Drive Rush combos you're dead. If not, similar to sweep, one can shut down enemy options with a slightly disadvantageous trade, since certain spacings will make it impossible to juggle with the ground spike. Certainly that JP has options for how they want to use it is strong, but I don't think it exceeds other reversal options. Its just different. Additionally, you as the defender (uniquely) also get options for how you want to deal with it. That said, because its unique, I think it starts as a rather mean matchup knowledge check for many people
EDIT: Formatting
After playing as jp for a lil bit(tryin to find my main) n yah i now understand why hes being labeled as a mortal kombat character… hes a big scary monster n im here for it😂
Just one note: projectiles never die when the owner gets hit, right?.. So I didn't quite get that part. Hit Ryu with an Akuma air hadoken while he does a ground hadoken and ryu gets hit and Akuma may still fall and get hurt by the hadoken. So the projectiles remaining when JP gets hit seems totally normal to me. If you do not see it as a projectile same thing: Kimberly's can and Blanka's chan doll also remain when their owner gets hit.
Yeah, but I think people expect it because there's a precendent on these sort of "countdown" moves that are guaranteed to hit your character that if you hit the enemy, the countdown ends.
See: Gen's Dim Mak move where you get hit 10 seconds later in Alpha and Leona's (delayed) earring bomb in KOFXV. The move is nullified if you hit either of them.
@@foursix32 Hm. Ok, thanks.
The only adjustment it needs imo is to lose to throws. Right now it’s too dumb.
The only thing I’d change about the move is to make it lose to throws. That’s the only truly silly thing about this move to me.
Hard counter:Bait it out and wait for counter.
So JP has the "Green Hand" from SF II Zangief, just purple and with frame advantage?
So nobody is gonna talk about the half screen command grab
FYI, if this move connects on meaty throw, JP is +8. That gives JP a guaranteed punish counter throw. This makes it extremely broken when JP is cornered. Basically, if this move connects on ANYTHING, it will give JP a guarantee a corner escape and/or a mixup. This move is way too good for a zooner.
Some of the properties of the move seem a little over tuned, it will probably be nerfed eventually. In particular I think the ex should either not be frame one, or only be strike invul. Since I don't play the character I wouldn't mind if they nerfed it way more than that, but I don't think taking away such a cool move would really be fun.
I mean, as someone who hasn’t touched JP but has fought several of them, the answer to it is really simple. People just need to stop being so mash happy for a fraction of a second. If the counter doesn’t get triggered, JP eats a full combo of your choosing.
People don’t need to be able to grab counters, they need to stop thinking they should always be pressing buttons. The point of a counter is to punish that.
Fighting JP is all about patience, this move is no different than the rest of his toolkit in that regard, one of his moves not being beaten by throws (which he has to expend 2 bars of his Overdrive Gauge to even attempt by the way) really isn’t that bad.
From my experience, his counter more often than not ends up backfiring, since he’s so ridiculously open if you don’t hit it during its active frames.
All that raw ground meat on Gief 😂🤣😂🤣
If he was just a boss at the end of the game this would be fine. His projectile command grab needs to go. Its like all the MK 11 boss chracters rolled into 1
Shush Rooflemonger!!! 😂😂😂
Sounds like you might just not like a strong zoner
That's not his best defensive tool. It's more worth it to use drive reversal. It puts the enemy full screen. Pretty messed up for guy with is kit.
Oh my God why would they make it throw invincible ;3; like year other metered reversals are but no one else has the insane full screen pressure jp has
But here's a question I wanna know that wasn't answered in this video.
Those orbs, do their hits count as Strike or Projectile?
Give has a lot of ways to be Projectile invincible.
Dude isn't a zoner. He freezes time and shit it's crazy
I wanted to play JP but seeing how dominant he is right now kind of put me off, i think the character is gonna get hit hard and i'd rather play a more stable character to start out.
The move is perfectly fine and should remain good however i do think its fucked up it doesnt disapear if you hit him after they are on you since he is safe and shouldnt get hit in the first place. If they have to change something id be ok with that part falling in line with most of his other tools.
The ex version absolutely should still counter everything though, this is a DP/flash kick and it should remain so. Bait it out.
This guy spitting only facts
I find stuff like this fun and cool, but since SF6 doesn't use health/stun values anymore for balancing, it will be a nightmare to balance stuff like this I think. We'll see I guess but rn I'll take fun stuff over boring balance any day!!
I'm a Jp main as well and I approve this move but what would make it better is if the bomb exploded after the counter let the ex be the one to explode something hope capcom is listening
Not to JP mains wanting . . . that buffed
The same way capcom was selling Luke as the new protagonist of Street Fighter by having him dominate SFV, they are hyping up JP as the new final boss M.Bison by making him broken now.
if you just block to wait it out and JP throws, can you tech the throw or does the reversal still do its thing?