It’s even a rare arrangement for jets. It’s almost all nowadays on the CRJ and ERJ. Previous jets that had this layout was the Il-62 and trijet Boeing 727 where 2 the engines are attached like that whilst the 3rd is in the tail itself via an S shaped duct for more efficient airflow vs straight through the top of the tail which was what was done in DC-10 snd MD-11
I hope they make a good success at this. The market needs a major third competitor other then Airbus & Boeing. It would be nice if the aviation wealth is spread out in the Latin America countries where there is genuine need.
@@jonseilim4321 at this moment, Embraer and Bombardier have a higher market acceptance and market share than comac though. I dont believe this plane could make embraer compete with Boeing and Airbus, even if its extremelly succesfull. It could be like the e-jets and be succesfull, allowing Embraer to grow, but not enough to rival the current duopolly
@@chechnya Noted, corruption can only be dealt with if a country is progressing & the people see that money is not following down to the people. Then there will be backlass by the massess. That is my theory anway.
They are not so big and are not planning to go that big either. They even were very close to be bought by Boeing a couple of years ago. But ATR is in their sight,that's the target.
Very cool and interesting. As someone who’s flown the EMBRAER 120,135/140/145, and training for the 170/175 fleet now; that design looks like the fuselage of a 170-195, with the wings of the 135-145, and with the props…reminiscences the 120. It would be really cool to see the airplane make production.
I'm excited for this plane. Hope it comes to fruition. Seems like having the engines at the back like that could be a really big benefit for this aircraft over its competitors.
"The next generation of turboprop-powered aircraft is coming soon! Props, (no pun intended) for Embraer Way to go!" Well, those Props better be spinning for Embraer 😄
The unique sound comes from the number and length of the blades, not the placement. To keep the blade tip clear of the ground on take-off rotation and landing, they have to be short, as a result they don't have the same mean area cord as a longer blade. So they add an extra blade to make up that loss, but they are still short, so they are turned faster than most turbo props. A good modern, and successful, example of this is the Piaggio Avanti. Those things make so much racket on the ground that even with hearing protection on, it still hurts to be near them. This plane will have a similar issue due to having to clear the rear fuselage, the blades will have to be short, and in this they show 8 blades, which will help the noise because they won't have to turn as fast. However, the UDF would still be a better and more fuel efficient design.
Hope this is the start of a new wave of turboprop design and implementation. Possibly for larger (150-300 passenger) aircraft as well. I'd love to see prop driven aircraft making a major comeback at major airports. Would be like a second golden age of propliners.
@@managed9348 yes I have heard of ATR. However, I was unaware Airbus owns the majority of ATR. I must clarify: Boeing and Airbus are yet to show any prototypes including this advanced turboprop (which surpasses current propeller technology), under the official company name. Thanks!
@@harpermonohan They don’t have to do such a thing under their main company. Airbus can do the R&D and then pass their technology to ATR as a transaction and then ATR can enjoy the technology without the R&D staff on their budgets.
It looks promising. Right now ATR have the turboprop market pretty much completely to themselves, and there hasn't been any significant new, cleansheet designs for decades. The rear mounting is very clever. It'll be a much quieter cabin, but also a lot more spacious, as it allows the design to maintain the low wing layout of jets. If they can line up a decent launch customer, they should be good.
@@pbjman5809 Dash-8 isn't currently in actual production though, classic production has been stopped for a while and Q400 production is in the process of moving from Toronto to Calgary.
Embraer may capture a larger marketshare because there is no prop successor to the Q400. Some of those Q400 carriers may consider Embraer propeller aircraft. .
If it passes the the technical hurdles then it may well have the field to itself. However, I think ATR will eventually provide a competitor response in some form or another. Q400 will die without having given birth to children.
This is exciting, the prop market lacks competition in this field with ATR currently the major (& only I believe) manufacturer of aircraft in this bracket , good luck to Embraer with this project.
I haven't traveled by air since March of 1981, just haven't had the need and most of my travel has included things more easily transported by car. The proposed Embraer turboprop is certainly graceful and appears to include many innovative features that will provide improved performance and passenger comfort.
Kind of reminds me of the GE36 propfan MD80 back in the day. On the other hand, i hope they will make an executive express of this TPNG, perhaps with the turboprop engines mounted in pusher configuration just like the Piaggio P.180 Avanti. Although that would be noisier, but it will be a one cool looking plane!
Interesting! The 50-seat version of this would be the perfect replacement for the uncomfortable (and somewhat expensive to operate) CRJ-200, and the dodgy ATR42. As concerns the larger versions of this plane, if it has current-generation PW100 series turboprops, the fuel consumption will be the same as the E2 series; but if the turboprops on these concept aircraft are considerably more efficient than a PW100 series powerplant, these aircraft would make sense. It will be interesting to see what next-generation turboprops will be used here. And, it's definitely a good idea for the turboprops to be placed at the rear; it's the only way turboprops can survive.
This is what the world needs for really short routes freeing up the regional jets to be better used for longer routes that are still short of what the mainstream 6 abreast can do that aren’t efficient on those distance routes
I already enjoy flying on turboprop aircraft. I hope I get to fly aboard one of these someday. Modernizing the aircraft to a "jet-like experience" is a brilliant idea increase acceptance.
Looks like a very cool airplane! I love turboprops and I think they should be used a lot more in short haul routes as well as providing service to smaller airports.
It will work as a competitor to the ATR and to be flown to airports with short runways. If it is greener than other options good. If there are 4000 possible orders I hope Embraer can get half.
I've always liked turbo prop aircraft they are some of the most fuel efficient aircraft in the skies. Now if only the airlines would pass that savings along to the passengers in the form of reduced ticket prices. FLY NAVY!!!
The turboprop is sure in need for a refreshment. Either one of the commercial, business or defense verticals could use a redesigned platform with improved economics. As to the design itself many questions are still to be answered, specially the ones regarding safety - e.g. contingency in case of a broken blade. This and the other new gen props proposed by embraer have a rear mounted power plant because of future fuel sources. In one interview i saw (maybe even here on SF) the engineers said the best place for a hydrogen-filled spherical tank would be at the rear, thus making sense to place the engines close to it.
It's all about the $$ these days so whatever aircraft offers the lowest cost per passenger mile will win the day... So far it's the C Series/Airbus A220-100/300/500* but it's nice to see some friendly competition from Embraer here against what was Dash 8 territory... Anything with 2+2 seating is a winner to me!
When I was working at NASA Dryden back in the 90's GE was testing out what was called the unducted fan engine which was supposed to be more efficient than conventional duct-ed engines. Fuel prices dropped and that was the end of it. Is this basically the same idea?
If the chosen engine is compatible with sustainable aviation fuel and convertible to electric propulsion or hydrogen fuel, this could be a very effective offering.
I always thought there is a big market on the 50-100 seats with all the aging 30 year old planes holding that space. Good move of embraer to cover that. I always hoped airbus would be more agile and market orientatet, but recently it gets its butter taken by north and south american corporations.
Shorter landing gear, lower weight, thinner wing less drag, engines in the rear less noise in the cabin. Hope the fuselage is protected with Kevlar for the event of a runway propeller blade. Better handling on single engine?
The whole point is that ERJ's replaced turboprops on shorter routes because they are more efficient and faster. So this could well be the missing link between the two segments, and if large enough (and efficient enough) could be a great alternative for flights under 2 hours for sure.
Alaska airlines would be a perfect fit for this. Covering Skywest, horizon, etc for all the puddle jumpers. I hope this works out. Would be awesome to see a leaner turbo prop enter the market.
Given state of technology and expected rate of progress. They would be wise to develop a hybrid turbo prop. Battery boosted for take off with ultra low cruising fuel burn rate. Even better if it’s hydrogen fuel capable. Such a system would be upgraded more easily as better and better batteries come along and hydrogen infrastructure comes along.
When GE demonstrated this type of system, they called it an un-ducted turbofan as it has all the elements of a ducted version, sans the ducts. It was very, very loud.
If the true purpose of placing the props aft in a tractor position, think of how much quieter the craft would be in a pusher configuration...or would that be a reminder of the Starship?
Turboprops really under rated. Modern Turbo Props are quiet, fast, effiecient, and have great takeoff and landing performance.
No other major aircraft builder has as concrete and advanced project of such green aviation-compatible aircraft.
Embraer is looking good.
I like the rear placement of the engines. It seems unique in the market and more like a jet, as they say.
It’s even a rare arrangement for jets. It’s almost all nowadays on the CRJ and ERJ. Previous jets that had this layout was the Il-62 and trijet Boeing 727 where 2 the engines are attached like that whilst the 3rd is in the tail itself via an S shaped duct for more efficient airflow vs straight through the top of the tail which was what was done in DC-10 snd MD-11
@@filledwithvariousknowledge2747 Also the DC-9/MD-80/90/Boeing 717 families of planes has/had the engines in the rear too!
Piaggio Avanti has rear facing turbo prop engines (wing mounted). Been around since 1986 and sold about 250 total.
@@3204clivesinclair So... unique as he said.
@@3204clivesinclair
I think one of the problems with that was it was very noisy
I hope they make a good success at this. The market needs a major third competitor other then Airbus & Boeing. It would be nice if the aviation wealth is spread out in the Latin America countries where there is genuine need.
That's what Comac is aiming for, though I really hope Embraer and Bombardier join in too
@@jonseilim4321 at this moment, Embraer and Bombardier have a higher market acceptance and market share than comac though.
I dont believe this plane could make embraer compete with Boeing and Airbus, even if its extremelly succesfull. It could be like the e-jets and be succesfull, allowing Embraer to grow, but not enough to rival the current duopolly
The wealth is there, the corruption is stopping it from reaching the people.
@@chechnya Noted, corruption can only be dealt with if a country is progressing & the people see that money is not following down to the people. Then there will be backlass by the massess. That is my theory anway.
They are not so big and are not planning to go that big either. They even were very close to be bought by Boeing a couple of years ago. But ATR is in their sight,that's the target.
Very cool and interesting. As someone who’s flown the EMBRAER 120,135/140/145, and training for the 170/175 fleet now; that design looks like the fuselage of a 170-195, with the wings of the 135-145, and with the props…reminiscences the 120. It would be really cool to see the airplane make production.
I'm excited for this plane. Hope it comes to fruition. Seems like having the engines at the back like that could be a really big benefit for this aircraft over its competitors.
Embraer is a amazing company and for sure it's new turboprop will be a hit
The next generation of turboprop-powered aircraft is coming soon! Props, (no pun intended) for Embraer Way to go!
Haha.
"The next generation of turboprop-powered aircraft is coming soon! Props, (no pun intended) for Embraer Way to go!"
Well, those Props better be spinning for Embraer 😄
@@tailsorange2872 Ba-dum tsssss
wow you brought nothing new here AND your pun fell flat... nice
Can't wait to hear this thing in flight, one thing I learned about the beech starship is that having its propellers in the back makes it sound unique
And LOUD.
The unique sound comes from the number and length of the blades, not the placement. To keep the blade tip clear of the ground on take-off rotation and landing, they have to be short, as a result they don't have the same mean area cord as a longer blade. So they add an extra blade to make up that loss, but they are still short, so they are turned faster than most turbo props. A good modern, and successful, example of this is the Piaggio Avanti. Those things make so much racket on the ground that even with hearing protection on, it still hurts to be near them. This plane will have a similar issue due to having to clear the rear fuselage, the blades will have to be short, and in this they show 8 blades, which will help the noise because they won't have to turn as fast. However, the UDF would still be a better and more fuel efficient design.
Hope this is the start of a new wave of turboprop design and implementation. Possibly for larger (150-300 passenger) aircraft as well. I'd love to see prop driven aircraft making a major comeback at major airports. Would be like a second golden age of propliners.
Hell yeah! I love turboprops and it would be great to see a comeback of the the great old days
Yer looking at FOUR ENGINE necessity AND plausibly TOO SLOW. ... STRADDLE .O.55mach practical speed
Embraer is making changes that Boeing and Airbus aren’t willing to roll out as quickly!
Have you heard of ATR??
@@WilliamHelstad ATR is a turbo prop aircraft that Airbus has a 50% share in
@@EGFF-y5r thank you
@@managed9348 yes I have heard of ATR. However, I was unaware Airbus owns the majority of ATR.
I must clarify: Boeing and Airbus are yet to show any prototypes including this advanced turboprop (which surpasses current propeller technology), under the official company name. Thanks!
@@harpermonohan They don’t have to do such a thing under their main company. Airbus can do the R&D and then pass their technology to ATR as a transaction and then ATR can enjoy the technology without the R&D staff on their budgets.
Congratulations Embraer! wonderful aircraft
Embraer will be a successful competitor, thumbs up.
It looks promising. Right now ATR have the turboprop market pretty much completely to themselves, and there hasn't been any significant new, cleansheet designs for decades. The rear mounting is very clever. It'll be a much quieter cabin, but also a lot more spacious, as it allows the design to maintain the low wing layout of jets. If they can line up a decent launch customer, they should be good.
I think there is an alternative to ATR which is Dash-8, but, yes, I think jet NG/NEO/MAX planes have progressed much further.
looks like someone forgot the Dash 8
You’re forgetting DHC dash 8. It’s still the number one platform.
@@pbjman5809 Dash-8 isn't currently in actual production though, classic production has been stopped for a while and Q400 production is in the process of moving from Toronto to Calgary.
@@HekateMGO sure but there are still significantly more of them in service atm
Embraer is always successful
Embraer may capture a larger marketshare because there is no prop successor to the Q400. Some of those Q400 carriers may consider Embraer propeller aircraft. .
There is also the ATR 72 but this is ageing as well, so it is about time for a new competition in this sector.
If it passes the the technical hurdles then it may well have the field to itself. However, I think ATR will eventually provide a competitor response in some form or another.
Q400 will die without having given birth to children.
This is exciting, the prop market lacks competition in this field with ATR currently the major (& only I believe) manufacturer of aircraft in this bracket , good luck to Embraer with this project.
our embraer is advancing more than ever
Not much of an Embraer fan, but I do like this new bird. Best of luck to them.
i think it will be a big success.
cant wait to see this happened
I haven't traveled by air since March of 1981, just haven't had the need and most of my travel has included things more easily transported by car.
The proposed Embraer turboprop is certainly graceful and appears to include many innovative features that will provide improved performance and passenger comfort.
I'm a big fan of turboprops, I believe they have a real future. So I'm cheering this on.
Kind of reminds me of the GE36 propfan MD80 back in the day.
On the other hand, i hope they will make an executive express of this TPNG, perhaps with the turboprop engines mounted in pusher configuration just like the Piaggio P.180 Avanti. Although that would be noisier, but it will be a one cool looking plane!
Remember seeing that on test in Yuma, AZ. Was noisy as hell!
Rooting for them! Let’s go
oh this is a cool looking turbo prop
Interesting! The 50-seat version of this would be the perfect replacement for the uncomfortable (and somewhat expensive to operate) CRJ-200, and the dodgy ATR42. As concerns the larger versions of this plane, if it has current-generation PW100 series turboprops, the fuel consumption will be the same as the E2 series; but if the turboprops on these concept aircraft are considerably more efficient than a PW100 series powerplant, these aircraft would make sense. It will be interesting to see what next-generation turboprops will be used here. And, it's definitely a good idea for the turboprops to be placed at the rear; it's the only way turboprops can survive.
I would love to see the cramped CRJ series go bye bye
What a beautiful plane!
We agree! ✈️
This is what the world needs for really short routes freeing up the regional jets to be better used for longer routes that are still short of what the mainstream 6 abreast can do that aren’t efficient on those distance routes
It sure will be a success
Thank you for watching, be sure to tune in again! 😊✈️
They are doing it...and they are doing it quietly!
BRAZIL!!!! PENTA CAMPEÃO DO MUNDO
With them getting E2s, I would put money on Porter being a launch customer to replace the Q400s as they age out.
I'm not sure how much aesthetics should enter into the discussion, but if looks count, this is gonna be a winner!
Bro just continues to impress.
That jet looks rad!
Eu amo Embraer! Embraer é legal.
So this is the new Q400 in terms of how fast it can go by turboprop standards but much more efficient. Hopefully it’ll sound just as great
Nice to have competition! ATRs are great, but the lack of competition usually brings some acomodation.
Simplesmente Fantástica esse novo EMBRAER Turbocop
I feel that 90 capacity is probably just about right.
Awsome aircraft. Wish you much success
💯Old tech. We are developing advanced aviation engines and propulsion that surpass anything in existence and on the drawing boards 💯
I already enjoy flying on turboprop aircraft. I hope I get to fly aboard one of these someday. Modernizing the aircraft to a "jet-like experience" is a brilliant idea increase acceptance.
It will be a fantastic aircraft.
Best wishes
Looks like a good domestic short haul design.
Those wings look very small compared to the size of the plane, so there's probably something innovative there as well.
I’ve never been on an Embraer that I didn’t like
Not a big fan of the ERJ145 - a little too cramped for comfort.
@@stephenj4937 I don’t mind it actually
If they can keep the comfort level up, sound inside cabin down and fuel burn down, they may have a winner. Good luck.
Looks like a good idea. Not everyone needs a big jet.
Looks and sounds like an excellent new design…. Thanks Laurie NZ.
Turboprops are incredibly stable.
It could be very useful for getting from an area where there's a local airport to a major airport in a hurry.
Counter rotating UDF would look cool on this platform
Looks like a very cool airplane! I love turboprops and I think they should be used a lot more in short haul routes as well as providing service to smaller airports.
It will work as a competitor to the ATR and to be flown to airports with short runways. If it is greener than other options good. If there are 4000 possible orders I hope Embraer can get half.
i like this… i like it a lot. excited to see where this project goes
I've always liked turbo prop aircraft they are some of the most fuel efficient aircraft in the skies. Now if only the airlines would pass that savings along to the passengers in the form of reduced ticket prices. FLY NAVY!!!
The turboprop is sure in need for a refreshment. Either one of the commercial, business or defense verticals could use a redesigned platform with improved economics. As to the design itself many questions are still to be answered, specially the ones regarding safety - e.g. contingency in case of a broken blade. This and the other new gen props proposed by embraer have a rear mounted power plant because of future fuel sources. In one interview i saw (maybe even here on SF) the engineers said the best place for a hydrogen-filled spherical tank would be at the rear, thus making sense to place the engines close to it.
It's all about the $$ these days so whatever aircraft offers the lowest cost per passenger mile will win the day... So far it's the C Series/Airbus A220-100/300/500* but it's nice to see some friendly competition from Embraer here against what was Dash 8 territory... Anything with 2+2 seating is a winner to me!
I think if Embraer adapts an updated GE36 (UDF), an Ultra High Bypass Engine, it would be a great success
It’s about time!
They might be onto something.... Let's see...
When I was working at NASA Dryden back in the 90's GE was testing out what was called the unducted fan engine which was supposed to be more efficient than conventional duct-ed engines. Fuel prices dropped and that was the end of it. Is this basically the same idea?
no. regular turboprops, just positioned in a way they say will facilitate the adoption of alternative fuels in the future
This plane with the cfm rise would be so sick
looks like a fever dream ATR/E145 kinda thing and i don't know how i feel about it
Embraer moving ahead, Bombardier moving backwards (no Q400 garbage replacement)
Yay! A new friend :)
Wonderful aircraft by the look
Without much fanfare... I see what you did there 😂. It's a nice concept, if the rear mounted engines will be quieter then it should do well
Probably a Success There are Two Popular Turboprop Option the ATR - 72 And the Bombardier Q400 NG
So this will be a Game Changer.
The rear mounting of the engines will definitely be very quiet. Looking forward to seeing the final details.
If the chosen engine is compatible with sustainable aviation fuel and convertible to electric propulsion or hydrogen fuel, this could be a very effective offering.
The TPNG sounds like such an increase in efficiency that there are many reasons for it and currently none against.
Yes Aer Lingus uses a old prop plane from Dublin to Edinburgh just one of many uses
👍👍 Bravo!
I always thought there is a big market on the 50-100 seats with all the aging 30 year old planes holding that space. Good move of embraer to cover that. I always hoped airbus would be more agile and market orientatet, but recently it gets its butter taken by north and south american corporations.
Brilliant way to isolate propulsion noise. Latest tech enables it.
I think this has potential. It could replace lots of the q400 and other turboprop airliners. It’s also more economical which is better.
Shorter landing gear, lower weight, thinner wing less drag, engines in the rear less noise in the cabin. Hope the fuselage is protected with Kevlar for the event of a runway propeller blade. Better handling on single engine?
not contra-rotating props? or is that 10-15% efficiency to old school? any possibility they will option a short range electric version?
The whole point is that ERJ's replaced turboprops on shorter routes because they are more efficient and faster. So this could well be the missing link between the two segments, and if large enough (and efficient enough) could be a great alternative for flights under 2 hours for sure.
Great story!
Alaska airlines would be a perfect fit for this. Covering Skywest, horizon, etc for all the puddle jumpers. I hope this works out. Would be awesome to see a leaner turbo prop enter the market.
Good for a lower level commuter between large airport hubs.
Why would you put the props that for aft and not make them pushers?
What will the runway performance be like?
For a moment, I thought they were going to go the route of the propfan, but this works too, I suppose.
Love it.
This could really kill off the Dash 8 programme and hurt the ATR programme too.
Yes, the turboprop is STILL relative!
Given state of technology and expected rate of progress. They would be wise to develop a hybrid turbo prop. Battery boosted for take off with ultra low cruising fuel burn rate. Even better if it’s hydrogen fuel capable. Such a system would be upgraded more easily as better and better batteries come along and hydrogen infrastructure comes along.
the placement of the engines should also reduce yaw.
I quite enjoy transiting through Hartsfield airport...
Also a jet stream of air produces more thrust than a fan blade blowing air every direction.
Can it go as fast as a jet?
When GE demonstrated this type of system, they called it an un-ducted turbofan as it has all the elements of a ducted version, sans the ducts. It was very, very loud.
Good
What's the landing speed 180mph?
They should consider going with a pusher prop design
If anyone knows I’m just curious if this will change how the air craft will turn and fly or will it be close to the same
If the true purpose of placing the props aft in a tractor position, think of how much quieter the craft would be in a pusher configuration...or would that be a reminder of the Starship?